Question on Traxide Dual Battery setup

[wbowner]

I have an Traxide dual installed. It was installed in 2014, so I reckon I would have an older sc80, not sure how to tell

Any way I have been thinking of putting in a switch to turn off the sc80 as I have battery drain, can’t leave the car more than a 4 days.

According to Tim and others in the forum you can put a switch on the yellow green wire.

I don’t seem to have one?

Any thoughts

Richard

[wbowner]

A bit more info

it is an SC80-12 isolator. it was part of the D4-5S Traxide kit. It was installed by Sneigy.

I do not have a yellow green wire but do have a brown wire running from the bottom of the SC80 to the earth point on the car. This wire is very difficult to get at. Even though brown the diagram refers to it a the green earth wire??

I found the install instructions and there was no mention of a yellow green wire.

Richard

159698

[Tombie]

Same wire.

[Tombie]

4 days is pretty short timeframe.

What’s changed?

How old is primary battery?
How old is secondary?
What hangs (powers) off of it all the time? USB sockets are always drawing current if powered.

How far is it being driven?

My vehicle could sit 2-4 weeks without going below the ability to start.

[wbowner]

Tombie
Thanks for the reply
Main battery is a bit over 12 months
The aux was 6 years and stuffed, I had it replaced yesterday.

I have had this problem for a long time and even though I have replaced the aux yesterday I am not confident it will solve problem. Time will tell

The reason I have raised the thread is that I have booked the car in to auto elecy to check it out subject to the new aux not fixing the problem
While doing that I was going to get a switch installed hence my original question.

As for what is connected I have been making a list

1. Traxide Dual battery
2. There is some unit installed in driver side engine bay under black cover, not sure what that is?
3. Anti rust , removed or should be
4. Redarc battery monitor sensors, one on each battery
5. Tyre monitor - via plug into aux battery
6. Heated seats after market install
7. Break controller for towing
8. 12 pin tow plug
9. Uhf radio
10. A module to cater for led lights in van- Installed in passenger side back compartment

The car does sit around a fair bit

I regularly put it on charge, when I am away I have the charger set to run 3 days a week

[wbowner]

Tombie
Thanks for the reply
Main battery is a bit over 12 months
The aux was 6 years and stuffed, I had it replaced yesterday.

I have had this problem for a long time and even though I have replaced the aux yesterday I am not confident it will solve problem. Time will tell

The reason I have raised the thread is that I have booked the car in to auto elecy to check it out subject to the new aux not fixing the problem
While doing that I was going to get a switch installed hence my original question.

As for what is connected I have been making a list

1. Traxide Dual battery
2. There is some unit installed in driver side engine bay under black cover, not sure what that is?
3. Anti rust , removed or should be
4. Redarc battery monitor sensors, one on each battery
5. Tyre monitor - via plug into aux battery
6. Heated seats after market install
7. Break controller for towing
8. 12 pin tow plug
9. Uhf radio
10. A module to cater for led lights in van- Installed in passenger side back compartment

The car does sit around a fair bit

I regularly put it on charge, when I am away I have the charger set to run 3 days a week


I have disconnected as much as I can above and will go for a drive and see how battery holds up.

Richard

[DiscoJeffster]

Bin the anti-rust thing for a start! Put it in the cupboard with your Brockie crystals.
I’m with Tombie. That’s ridiculous length of time for idle time battery life. You need to go through it and find what the drain is.
I recently bought an ammeter that had inductive capability so I can simply clip it over a wire and see the current, rather than needing to get in-line with it. Much easier to test current flow (just remember if you do this you can only do the positive or negative - not both wires else the positive flow is cancelled by the negative).

Go around the devices one by one and check their idle usage. Anything over 30ma is problematic and with so many thing, that’s potentially even at 30ma per device, a lot of parasitic current draw.

Finally there is a cut off relay that fails that causes excessive drain. Have you checked the ECU codes recently for a fault? That relay failing is logged IIRC.

[wbowner]

Bin the anti-rust thing for a start! Put it in the cupboard with your Brockie crystals.
I’m with Tombie. That’s ridiculous length of time for idle time battery life. You need to go through it and find what the drain is.
I recently bought an ammeter that had inductive capability so I can simply clip it over a wire and see the current, rather than needing to get in-line with it. Much easier to test current flow (just remember if you do this you can only do the positive or negative - not both wires else the positive flow is cancelled by the negative).

Go around the devices one by one and check their idle usage. Anything over 30ma is problematic and with so many thing, that’s potentially even at 30ma per device, a lot of parasitic current draw.

Finally there is a cut off relay that fails that causes excessive drain. Have you checked the ECU codes recently for a fault? That relay failing is logged IIRC.

Would be interested in the ammeter you bought if ya can.

Agree with above.

The anti rust was a BIG mistake and I had it removed some time ago. I was going to the dealer then for service and no questions asked and even gave me back a $300 credit which I could not use unfortunately.

Most of the things connected are supposed to turn off or are supposed to have minimal drain - bet ya heard that one before.

As mentioned I have disconnected most of the above, stuff I can at least, and will see how the new AUX goes.

One thing I can't disconnect easily is the Traxide isolator, hence my question about the switch. Good to monitor batteries independently.

Your point about the relays is a good one as I have had to have one replaced a year or so ago for the brake controller. I also think the relay may not be a big as required, from memory it is a 20amp one but think it should be 30amp. But I know bugger all about this stuff so can't say for sure.
I have a Tekonsha P3 controller installed which I have disconnected for my latest test.

Richard

[drivesafe]

Hi Richard, and is your auxiliary battery in the driver’s side battery box.

Sneigy was very good at fitting them there.

If it is, then the isolator is there as well and you will have a thin brown wire, running from the isolator over to a top-hat shaped nut on the inside of the inner guard.

It may be difficult to get at, but if you can, see if you can get easy access to the brown wire somewhere between the two locations.

I have quite a few thousands of these Land Rover kits, with the original SC80 isolators and as covered in a few places, by cutting this wire and inserting a switch, you can turn the SC80 off while the vehicle is left unused for long periods.

If you want to automate the operation, you can fit the switch and a small relay in parallel, like a horn relay, and have the relay bypass the switch when ever you run your motor.

The relay setup gets around having to remember about the switch, plus you can leave the switch off until you do your next long trip, but relay allows the auxiliary battery to be charged when ever the motor is running.

[wbowner]

Tjm
Aux battery and isolator are on passenger side
I think he tried other side but had problems



Richard

[LRD414]

I have an Traxide dual installed. It was installed in 2014, so I reckon I would have an older sc80, not sure how to tell
Any way I have been thinking of putting in a switch to turn off the sc80 as I have battery drain, can’t leave the car more than a 4 days.
I too have a 2014 SC80 isolator and you'll find some ideas and details in this thread (link below) on the topic of switching for the isolator:

Traxide isolator earth wire on/off switch (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/267695-traxide-isolator-earth-wire-off-switch.html)

Cheers,
Scott

[drivesafe]

Tjm
Aux battery and isolator are on passenger side
You will need to remove the battery to get at the earth wire on the isolator.

Disconnect the Negative ( - ) battery clamps on the auxiliary and cranking battery before you do anything.

You can then remove the Positive ( + ) battery clamp from the auxiliary battery and then remove the aux battery.

You will then have access to the earth wire on the isolator.

[wbowner]

You will need to remove the battery to get at the earth wire on the isolator.

Disconnect the Negative ( - ) battery clamps on the auxiliary and cranking battery before you do anything.

You can then remove the Positive ( + ) battery clamp from the auxiliary battery and then remove the aux battery.

You will then have access to the earth wire on the isolator.

Thanks Tim.

[wbowner]

I too have a 2014 SC80 isolator and you'll find some ideas and details in this thread (link below) on the topic of switching for the isolator:

Traxide isolator earth wire on/off switch (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/267695-traxide-isolator-earth-wire-off-switch.html)

Cheers,
Scott

Scott,
I had seen that one but it is not the same as my set up. When I saw it I thought great that should be easy but then couldn't find the yellow green wire, I then gave up till recently. I didn't see the brown one either until I started to look a lot closer and even read the install notes !!!

I don't have a green and yellow wire. I take it this the earth wire which you have connected to the top of the top of the isolator, is this a valid earth point?

From the discussions I believe my earth wire is brown and goes under the isolator and connects to the earth stud on the side of the car where other things have been earthed. To get at requires a bit more stuffing around as per Tims last post.



Richard

[LRD414]

I don't have a green and yellow wire. I take it this the earth wire which you have connected to the top of the top of the isolator, is this a valid earth point?
I don't really understand the difference Richard, given ours are both the same vintage.
On mine the green/yellow wire comes out of the isolator and earths to its bracket at the top rather than to a designated earth stud.
This is the wire that can be intercepted with a switch or plug.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4864/31635347747_c60fda68fc_h.jpg

[wbowner]

Scott
Not sure, if could be an install issue but what I have looks like the install instructions I have, as per pic above.

I do like your set up better, given you have had this for sometime it must be a valid way if earthing the isolator.

Richard

[DiscoJeffster]

Scott
Not sure, if could be an install issue but what I have looks like the install instructions I have, as per pic above.

I do like your set up better, given you have had this for sometime it must be a valid way if earthing the isolator.

Richard

Steel plate for SC80 is attached to steel battery tray which is bolted to chassis. Earth sorted! Any good earth is ok, just not the battery terminal earth as it bypasses the battery management system

[wbowner]

Then no idea why mine is done that way, except it fits with the install instructions I have.

But would prefer the other way.

Richard

[Tombie]

Then no idea why mine is done that way, except it fits with the install instructions I have.

But would prefer the other way.

Richard

A picture would tell a thousand words [emoji6]

[DiscoJeffster]

Then no idea why mine is done that way, except it fits with the install instructions I have.

But would prefer the other way.

Richard

Because things evolve. I presume over time Tim tweaked the fitting instructions to make it simpler and cleaner.

[DiscoJeffster]

A picture would tell a thousand words [emoji6]

But not a video. You can’t work anything out from a video. Sorry, wrong thread. [emoji1787] (run).

[wbowner]

Mine looks like Scott’s but no wires

Will get pic tomorrow

Richard

[DiscoMick]

If figuring out the wiring is a problem you could just use a solar panel to keep the starting battery charged. Works for me.

[wbowner]

Hi
I have my chargers on timers to run 3 days a week while I am away fir longer periods ie a week plus

My batteries are at 12.5v this morning so reckon I still have a drain but need to do a bit of a drive to charge them up first

Re photo for Tombie, will post shortly

Richard

[wbowner]

But not a video. You can’t work anything out from a video. Sorry, wrong thread. [emoji1787] (run).

Sorry I can't be more detailed but no yellow-green wire. The battery and isolator are in front of the main battery box on passenger side.
A brown wire runs from the bottom of the isolator to an earth stud on car. I can't get a pic of that unfortunately.

Or did you mean a pic of the thing in the driver side box which I have no idea what it is. Will get one of those later as the cover for that box is difficult to remove and put back.

Richard

Tombie, for you

159753

[wbowner]

I think my solution is to move the brown wire from the earth stud on the car to the top pf the isolator as per Scotts set up and put an inline switch into that wire.

re draining, at least when the above is done I can see which of the batteries is being drained, which may help with the search.

Richard

[LRD414]

I think my solution is to move the brown wire from the earth stud on the car to the top pf the isolator as per Scotts set up and put an inline switch into that wire.
re draining, at least when the above is done I can see which of the batteries is being drained, which may help with the search.
Richard, you should be able to add a switch (or plug like mine) to the brown wire without shifting it from stud to top of isolator.
It's only an earth wire which just needs a "good" earth connection. Having said that, I think the location as per mine is easier to get at and certainly works so I think slightly better just for that reason.

With the isolator off you have eliminated one battery drain and then you'll need to proceed to eliminate others until you work out if any are excessive That is one in the photo (battery monitor).
I suspect you won't find a faulty one, just a combination of many small ones adding up.

Cheers,
Scott

[Tombie]

I’d suggest, having u done the earth stud a multitude of times that you can get it off without disturbing anything else and fit a plug in line.

Only takes a 10mm spinner down the side to loosen and remove the earth point.

For the sake of the test you can then just tape that end off and it’s isolated.

[drivesafe]

Hi Richard, if you DO NOT have a bull bar, you can easily remove the grill and left headlight assembly.

this will give you easy access to the thin earth wire and you may be able to cut and extend the wire, to be able to mount a switch where you can easily access it.

[wbowner]

Thanks all, I will look into suggestions

Went for a short drive earlier today
Both batteries are currently showing 12.8v

I will see how that looks in morning with respect to see if it was the aux battery causing leak.

Many thanks again

Richard

[Mungus]

Richard, just remember, experience has proven to me that continuous short runs of less than 20-30minutes will not be sufficient for a charging a dual battery setup. That is the reason I installed the switch on the earth wire to turn off the isolator during these periods. No longer any issues with main battery. It’s always above 80% SOC and I simply whack the Aux. on the Ctek charger every three or so weeks to maintain. If I’m going for a longer trip, or camping, flick the switch and the benefits of the traxide isolator in play.

[DiscoJeffster]

Richard, just remember, experience has proven to me that continuous short runs of less than 20-30minutes will not be sufficient for a charging a dual battery setup. That is the reason I installed the switch on the earth wire to turn off the isolator during these periods. No longer any issues with main battery. It’s always above 80% SOC and I simply whack the Aux. on the Ctek charger every three or so weeks to maintain. If I’m going for a longer trip, or camping, flick the switch and the benefits of the traxide isolator in play.

Hang on. Why? Are you saying the parasitic loss of Traxide is so high? The drain is the drain. If it’s spread across two batteries or one it’s the same, plus the additional drain of the Traxide. The alternator can charge one as well as two.
Actually, I might see the issue. Spreading the passion between two means it will see a theoretical higher state of charge and not put in as much effort to charge.

[Mungus]

Not talking about parasitic drain of the traxide. That is minimal. More so the so called smart alternator system not being capable of charging two batteries when only doing short 20 minute drives. If I can find some time I’ll print out a few Ctek monitoring graphs that really show the gradual loss of charge state of both batteries before and after fitting the switch. I was so grateful seeing the results.

[scarry]

Richard, just remember, experience has proven to me that continuous short runs of less than 20-30minutes will not be sufficient for a charging a dual battery setup. That is the reason I installed the switch on the earth wire to turn off the isolator during these periods. No longer any issues with main battery. It’s always above 80% SOC and I simply whack the Aux. on the Ctek charger every three or so weeks to maintain. If I’m going for a longer trip, or camping, flick the switch and the benefits of the traxide isolator in play.

Thats exactly what i do,and since i did it to mine about 5 1/2 yrs ago,no issues at all since.
And the main battery then lasted almost 5 yrs,which is amazing.

It also stops the traxide relay draining power as well,which adds up over a few weeks.

My SC80 is an older model,apparently the newer model doesn't use as much power.

[drivesafe]

Hi folks and sorry but you all have it wrong.

The problem of short drives not charging batteries properly has nothing to do with whether you have my DBS, or some other DBS or no DBS at all.

My systems reduce the following problem BUT they do not stop it from occurring.

Lack of use and/or continuous short drives cause the batteries to sulphate.

As batteries sulphate, they not only loose capacity, but the remaining capacity is harder to recharge because you need to drive longer, BUT YOU DO NOT.

A crude and exaggerated way of demonstrating this is when the battery is in good condition, like when you first bought it, and you have say 100Ah of battery capacity available.
You start your motor and use 10 units of energy while starting.

With a battery in good condition you drive for 10 minutes and replace 9 units of used energy, and if you drive for 10 minutes, you will replace the full 10 units used while stating the motor.

Over a long period of time, and continuous short driving, even when 9 of the 10 units are being replaced, you are still slowly, very slowly discharging your battery.

Eventually, you get to a point where the state of discharge in the battery is at or below a level where sulphating starts to build up in the battery.

But every time you start your motor, you still use the same 10 units of energy.

This sulphating buildup will now mean that the ten minute drives only allow 8 units of energy to be replace, or that you now need to drive for 20 minutes to the full 10 units used to start the motor, to be replaced, but you are still not fully charging the battery.

It would not be unusual to have that 100Ah battery down to 60Ah before you realised you had a problem.

Based on some of the replies above, this is where many of you are probably at, at this time.

[DiscoJeffster]

So Tim/Drivesafe. What is the point of the BMS and the “advanced” battery management in the LR vehicles. Are you suggesting this is a new phenomenon????? We have had cars for a little while now and it wasn’t until “smart” chargers and BMS was introduced that batteries were damaged far earlier. 3 years from a battery is magnitudes worse than my prior life remembered.
My batteries have lasted 8-10 years prior, and I admit that electronic loads have increased, but with god-like BMS, shouldn’t my charging system compensate for it and smash my battery with amps to keep it charged? Feel free to slander the LR BMS for being too “caring “

[drivesafe]

Hi Jeff the big difference is our driving habits have changed.

Not so long ago, our Land Rover was our daily drive vehicle.

In many cases, this is now not the case and the changed usage is causing the problems we are covering here.

[wbowner]

The reality is short trips are the norm

Is there a solution to this, regular charging for example

Richard

[DiscoJeffster]

Hi Jeff the big difference is our driving habits have changed.

Not so long ago, our Land Rover was our daily drive vehicle.

In many cases, this is now not the case and the changed usage is causing the problems we are covering here.

No. My driving hasn’t hasn’t changed. My vehicle has. Stupid smart charging Systems have instead of 14.4V constant voltage and amperage to supply the battery as required.

[drivesafe]

Yes Richard, a charging habit is the way to go and if you have a look at my Auto Electrical thread in the Verandha section, I go into detail on how to keep your batteries in good nick.

[Aussie Jeepster]

I have a 60W solar panel on the roof of the carport and simply plug the Disco into it when not driving it.
It gets a charge every day between 10.30am and 3pm and it seems to keep everything running fine.
I plug the panel into the Anderson plug on the rear bumper which is part of my Traxide system.
Based on a couple of digital volt meters I have fitted my batteries sit at around 12.6 to 12.7 volts when ever I look at them.

[DiscoMick]

I get a similar effect from having an 80 watt solar panel on the roof rack of the Defender. When parked outside there is always some charge going into the starting battery. If it is sufficiently charged the Traxide connects the second battery and it is also charged.
So I can just park outside and the second battery is normally reading fully charged, at least 12.8 and often around 13.0, which means the starting battery is also charged.
Even when the Defender is under the carport roof it still gets some charge, although reduced.
The batteries are healthy. It really is set and forget.

[Tombie]

No. My driving hasn’t hasn’t changed. My vehicle has. Stupid smart charging Systems have instead of 14.4V constant voltage and amperage to supply the battery as required.

You’re correct, your vehicle now demands 3x the power an old Falcon or equivalent would.

Even the old vehicles couldn’t cope. Had a woman who lived near work and every 3 months was back to Beaurepairs where a mate worked with battery problems. She drove 5km every day and nothing more. Over 3 months the vehicle couldn’t replenish what it took to start and would kill the batteries.

It’s not a new thing.

My D4 gets regular runs up the highway due to location, it made it 7 years on the original battery.

[DiscoMick]

Long time ago my father had a Corona he drove three blocks to the shop in the morning and three blocks back at night. It needed regular charging, even though it didn't actually use much power.

[BrianElloy]

I keep my SC80 permanently disconnected until I’m in a country run. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/07b555af31d186819d8c42d3f422f29a.jpg
Despite what some may say it DEFINITELY causes accelerated discharging in the main battery if left connected during normal short-ish city runs. Full stop.

I use a Kick-Ass 20A 8-stage charger fortnightly to keep both the main and aux batteries charged to optimal levels.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200419/6daa7295584a86b952aed1a50262ae67.jpg

[drivesafe]

Hi Brian, not sure why you fitted the separate switch, because your SC80 came with an In-Cab module, which allows you to do what that switch does.

The difference is that, while the motor is off and the switch is set to the Service/Ignition position, the SC80 will be off and only consumes about 8 to 10 milliamperes. Your batteries self-discharge at a much higher rate.

But even with the switch set to the Service/Ignition position, when you start your motor, the SC80 connects the batteries, allowing the auxiliary battery to be automatically charged every time you drive.

Your separate switch setup is a good idea on the older SC80 isolators, when the vehicle is not being driven enough, but on the new SC80 isolators like yours, this save you having to go under the bonnet to switch the SC80 on and off.

One of a number of the new features of the new SC80 isolators, and is to save you having to remember to turn the SC80 on and off manually.

Try this with yours and you will save yourself some work.

[BrianElloy]

Hi Brian, not sure why you fitted the separate switch, because your SC80 came with an In-Cab module, which allows you to do what that switch does.

The difference is that, while the motor is off and the switch is set to the Service/Ignition position, the SC80 will be off and only consumes about 8 to 10 milliamperes. Your batteries self-discharge at a much higher rate.

But even with the switch set to the Service/Ignition position, when you start your motor, the SC80 connects the batteries, allowing the auxiliary battery to be automatically charged every time you drive.

Your separate switch setup is a good idea on the older SC80 isolators, when the vehicle is not being driven enough, but on the new SC80 isolators like yours, this save you having to go under the bonnet to switch the SC80 on and off.

One of a number of the new features of the new SC80 isolators, and is to save you having to remember to turn the SC80 on and off manually.

Try this with yours and you will save yourself some work.

Thanks Tim I tried that but wasn’t convinced the SC80 was fully isolated. I wanted full control over when the system was on or off regardless of whether the car was being driven or not. That’s what the engine-bay gives me.

[ian4002000]

How do i know if i have an older or newer SC80 switch ?

Ian
Bittern

[drivesafe]

Hi Ian, I started shipping the new SC80 isolators from April 2016 and the primary noticeable difference is the older SC80s had either a green or yellow LED and all new SC80s have a red and green LED.

[Tombie]

Thanks Tim I tried that but wasn’t convinced the SC80 was fully isolated. I wanted full control over when the system was on or off regardless of whether the car was being driven or not. That’s what the engine-bay gives me.

That BT battery module would be sucking more juice!

[BrianElloy]

That BT battery module would be sucking more juice!

Not really mate - bugger-all. Normally have them disconnected anyway unless I’m camping/etc

[wbowner]

A bit of an update

1. earlier in the thread it was mentioned how my set up didn’t have a yellow green wire, one was brown, connected tO top of sc80 as per Scott’s. I think the reason mine is different purely because Sniegy decided to install that way, Ie run brown wire to earth stud on car. The Traxide instructions indicate as per Scott’s.

2. I have had a switch installed. I took the car 5o an auto elecy to see if 5hey could identify the drain and install switch. They reckon the biggest drain was coming from the sc80. Based on testing so far thus seems to be true, I still have some more tests. The great thing about the switch is I can now split the batteries and see where drain is coming from.
With the switch off the main battery has maintained a constant value if 12.6v And the aux is at 12.8v, after a full recharge, for a few days so far. Never seen this before As it was typically dropping at .1v a day on both batteries.

At the moment the only thing running on the aux battery is the ABG25, not sure how much it uses but not much I think.





I do have to one more test but at 5he moment being able to turn sc80 off sure is a good option in my case

Richard

[Ned Kelly]

G'Day guys, i am going through this exact issue. Has anyone explored the fitting of a relay as well as the switch? The relay would bypass the switch once power was detected (presumably from an accessory feed), turn on the SC80 and charge both batteries whilst driving without the need to hit the switch. It would save the parasitic drain of the SC80 and ensure you are always charging, you would just flick the switch when you pulled up at a camp site etc to power the isolator whilst stationary.

Well that's the theory and i am keen as mustard to do it but have no idea what relay is required and the wiring diagram etc. If anyone has any pointers i would be extremely grateful.

[wbowner]

A bit of an update

After having the switch installed for awhile now I do believe it is a good thing

My batteries still drain but no where near the rate when the sc80 was active

The one I can’t understand is why the aux battery is draining as it should have no draw on it other than the abg-25 unit. Not sure if ya can turn that one off with a switch but will look into it. I am not sure if this unit is effective in my set up. I understand it is supposed to turn off every thing On the aux battery once the battery is below a certain voltage for 3 days, I think, but prior to disabling the sc80 I found the batteries were draining to quick for this to be useful.

If the abg-25 is the cause of the drain on my aux battery perhaps removing it may be an option, has anyone done that.

Richard

[Ned Kelly]

Sounds promising. I got the following from Tim today and hooked it up, seems to work a treat. Now i can turn the isolator completely off but when i start my car it charges both my batteries, when i stop again the isolator is of until i flick the switch like when i am camping etc

Just get an ordinary Horn Relay and here are the pin connections.


Use your new switch in the earth wire to connect to the relay.


Go from the side of your new switch that is connected to earth, and wire this to pin 30 as well as pin 85.


From the other side of the switch, which will be coming from the SC80 ( Green/Yellow wire ) and connect to pin 87 as well.


Pin 86 has to be connected to a wire that is powered ONLY when the Ignition is on.

Here is the diagram of the horn relay.


162901