Covid 19 App poll.

[V8Ian]

Will you download the Covid Safe App?
All replies are anonymous.

[W&KO]

Yep, within an hour of it being released.

There are two apps, I’m assuming you mean the COVIDSafe app

Cannot see poll on tapatalk.

[V8Ian]

Cheers, OP edited.

[Saitch]

Strewth, it's a close one, ay!

[vnx205]

There is no option for, "I already have downloaded it".

[V8Ian]

There is no option for, "I already have downloaded it".
So surely that would be a "Definitely". [bigwhistle]

[DiscoMick]

Can't see it in AULRO ap.

[p38arover]

Apparently won't work on iPhone 5 and earlier. Typical of a gummint design.

[V8Ian]

Do you want me to edit option five to "I don't have a very smart phone"? [wink11]

[incisor]

it is a bit useless if you lock your phone with a pin

i downloaded it then deleted it because i like my phone locked...

[Blknight.aus]

it is a bit useless if you lock your phone with a pin

i downloaded it then deleted it because i like my phone locked...

It wants access to a heap of stuff it shouldn't need access to as well as wanting to turn on a heap of things that sap battery...

based on that (and this is just a guess) its probably got more security holes than windows itself.

[Bulletman]

6 goes to download it , kept telling me I had an invalid phone number. Ended up having to turn off wifi and bluetooth for it to realise it wasnt invalid.

All done now...

Bulletman

[DiscoMick]

Covidsafe is not compatible with my phone.

[V8Ian]

Covidsafe is not compatible with my phone.
7) I don't have a smart enough phone. [bigrolf]

[Saulman1010]

I have done so already.
If it helps the cause.

I use Google Maps all day, everyday and they collect heaps of details. Where, when etc etc.

Mjs.

[incisor]

It wants access to a heap of stuff it shouldn't need access to as well as wanting to turn on a heap of things that sap battery...

based on that (and this is just a guess) its probably got more security holes than windows itself.

there are two rather minor security issues other than it needing the phone unlocked and it using amazon aws

it would be one of the safer apps out there it appears but i am not leaving my phone unlocked sorry

maybe when the next version trickles down.....

[Homestar]

Well if it doesn’t work when the phone is locked it won’t be doing much for anyone I shouldn’t think. Work just pushed it to all work phones but said it’s up to individuals to sign up or not, but the work phones also self lock after 30 seconds and this can’t be changed as it’s a work policy so not much good then.

[PhilipA]

Mine has a pin (iPhone Se) but I understand that as long as the app is active and not deleted that it will work.
To deactivate the app you have to swipe it .
I still get messages and texts when closed/locked.
Regards PhilipA

[W&KO]

Mine has a pin (iPhone Se) but I understand that as long as the app is active and not deleted that it will work.
To deactivate the app you have to swipe it .
I still get messages and texts when closed/locked.
Regards PhilipA

Agree

I’m on an iPhone and the app displays a message asking to leave the app running and Bluetooth turned on.

If phone needed to be left unlocked I assume the message would indicate this.

[Saitch]

I have done so already.
If it helps the cause.

I use Google Maps all day, everyday and they collect heaps of details. Where, when etc etc.

Mjs.

If ever you're up my way and want to have an AULRO get together, please don't use Google Maps to find my place as you'll probably end up in a hidden ditch, in the paddock over the back of our far ridge. I've had to recover several 'GPS believers' from that paddock, over the years. The blind faith shown beggars belief!!!

BOT (Back on Topic) I have decided not to download the app as it's not applicable to my situation.

[bob10]

What's an app ?

[incisor]

Agree

I’m on an iPhone and the app displays a message asking to leave the app running and Bluetooth turned on.

If phone needed to be left unlocked I assume the message would indicate this.

Just relaying what it experts that have looked into it have found

It’s behaviour is different on iOS and android

iOS has immensely better Bluetooth support but much of it is proprietary

Eg mfi hearing aid support and beacons

[NavyDiver]

Do you want me to edit option five to "I don't have a very smart phone"? [wink11]

It is occasionally the USER not the phone issue Ian. A few times my phone has been put into my pocket to then find it is doing something not intended such as calling. More than a few times I have been butt dialed [biggrin]

[NavyDiver]

Just relaying what it experts that have looked into it have found

It’s behaviour is different on iOS and android

iOS has immensely better Bluetooth support but much of it is proprietary

Eg mfi hearing aid support and beacons

Standards for some are a bit fluid. XML code is standard ( Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a markup language that defines a set of rules for encoding documents in a format that is both human-readable and machine-readable)

One medical software company changed the code to stop export to other software. Now I cannot send them transferred medical records in XML[bighmmm]. One of my main dislikes of iOS is its departure from standards and using proprietary software which locks users to it and allows them to force upgrades to overpriced new hardware. Everyone has a choice of course. Mine are often nutty. [biggrin]

On topic. I opt out of MY HEALTH Records as I know I and others could access it ( in my work position). Zero trust in that. No hassle with the Covi19 tracing app. I will be looking forward to seeing the source code. It was installed on my phone to allow others to be protected as I am at work in a medical place and just might be a risk. Hope not of course.
Have a great day all. About to hit Winter here! Let is SNOW

[Saitch]

Standards for some are a bit fluid. XML code is standard ( Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a markup language that defines a set of rules for encoding documents in a format that is both human-readable and machine-readable)

One medical software company changed the code to stop export to other software. Now I cannot send them transferred medical records in XML[bighmmm]. One of my main dislikes of iOS is its departure from standards and using proprietary software which locks users to it and allows them to force upgrades to overpriced new hardware. Everyone has a choice of course. Mine are often nutty. [biggrin]

On topic. I opt out of MY HEALTH Records as I know I and others could access it ( in my work position). Zero trust in that. No hassle with the Covi19 tracing app. I will be looking forward to seeing the source code. It was installed on my phone to allow others to be protected as I am at work in a medical place and just might be a risk. Hope not of course.
Have a great day all. About to hit Winter here! Let is SNOW

SNOW??? You can then officially go from being in 'Isolation' to 'Hibernation'.

[Saulman1010]

If ever you're up my way and want to have an AULRO get together, please don't use Google Maps to find my place as you'll probably end up in a hidden ditch, in the paddock over the back of our far ridge. I've had to recover several 'GPS believers' from that paddock, over the years. The blind faith shown beggars belief!!!

BOT (Back on Topic) I have decided not to download the app as it's not applicable to my situation.Off topic....
Only been to QLD once in my life mate.
Spent 2 months camping...very hot, dry, humid, very dusty and full of snakes.
As far as I'm concerned, cut QLD off along the state line and let it float away![emoji2957]

Mjs

[incisor]

One of my main dislikes of iOS is its departure from standards and using proprietary software which locks users to it and allows them to force upgrades to overpriced new hardware. Everyone has a choice of course. Mine are often nutty. [biggrin]

that last one being a prime example [bigwhistle]

apple have been way out in front dragging the others kicking and screaming forward for years on quite a few front

facetime

imessage

MFI bluetooth

to name just a few

developing things that work and save people much money if they use them, costs big bucks sometime

as for forcing updates..... that only applies if you want bleeding edge

i still use a 17" 2011 apple laptop and my primary phone at the moment is an old iphone 5s whilst my dual sim android unit has become my standby unit as two of my biggest customers are now heavily employing facetime / imessage during the shut down as they couldnt find any alternative that worked for them in remote locations as there is no android based alternative available in AU

and dual sim in apple phone can be very problematic, thats one area where android is in front

in a couple of countries google has rcs working but it is still not anything approaching business quality

as for the iphone and the covid app, you need to make sure the iphone is not in any power saving mode as that alters the way the bluetooth stack talks to the outside world Android doesnt have the issue.

apple is supposed to be in some way addressing it, as is the mob who wrote the app. there is an updated version coming along they say.

cheers

[Homestar]

One of my main dislikes of iOS is its departure from standards and using proprietary software which locks users to it and allows them to force upgrades to overpriced new hardware. Everyone has a choice of course. Mine are often nutty. [biggrin]


As an Apple user, I can tell you the main reasons I am - I'm not a fanboi by any stretch and think Apple themselves a-holes but the main reason is that they are simple to use and things just work - for an IT numpty like me, that makes life much easier is all - I have tried others but doing things like connecting to the TV, or making stuff work that should just work is much more difficult at times. I know others will say it's what you're used to and I'm sure that is partly the case, but iOS just seems to do what it is supposed to with a minimum of fuss.

There isn't anything that 'forces' you to buy their new stuff - one of my ipads is 7 years old and works just fine for what I use that for, my other newer version I use for work so ask a bit more of it. I have an old SE phone that still works great and is bloody near indestructible - it needs to be the way I treat it... [biggrin]

All our work phones are also Apple so that makes things easier overall too.

[ramblingboy42]

One of the things I don't understand is that this app is designed to communicate with people all around you.

What happened to stay at home?

Oh I get it....it's essential for the govt to get the data , so leave your homes and mass communicate.

no wonder so many people get confused by the gov'ts messages.

[W&KO]

One of the things I don't understand is that this app is designed to communicate with people all around you.

What happened to stay at home?

Oh I get it....it's essential for the govt to get the data , so leave your homes and mass communicate.

no wonder so many people get confused by the gov'ts messages.

There are still millions of us still working, kinda have to leave home which by default means interactions.

I assume you have left to to at least buy food? Therefore interactions.

Either way the App is probably a little late, I am wondering if it’s going to be a requirement to cross borders in the future.

[RANDLOVER]

Off topic....
Only been to QLD once in my life mate.
Spent 2 months camping...very hot, dry, humid, very dusty and full of snakes.
As far as I'm concerned, cut QLD off along the state line and let it float away![emoji2957]

Mjs

You should try it in summer.

[Barraman]

Almost 3 million downloads in 3 days! We will easily get to the required number signed up.
Australians are smarter than many give us credit for. Billy Shorten found that out the hard way!
Eventually most people will get to the view that if downloading the app helps to get things back to normal quicker, then they will do so!
Not that I think they can track you with this app, but if they could, I hope they find me down around the mouth of the McArthur R in the NT because the borders are open.
I downloaded it as soon as it became available!
I am a 'half glass full' kind of guy, and think that we will bounce back from this faster than predicted, just as Rona has not been anywhere as bad here as predicted.

[Eevo]

Eventually most people will get to the view that if downloading the app helps to get things back to normal quicker, then they will do so!

sounds like ransom.

[Barraman]

sounds like ransom.

or common sense! [smilebigeye]

[spie]

It "Stores your data on your phone until you are contacted by the government [health] and then upload the data from your phone". It also stores MY details if we sit on the same bus for >15 minutes on your phone and yours on mine [at the least an identifier that they can use to get my phone # and other app registration information from] otherwise how will they know to contact me to request that I upload the data that is only stored on my phone?

I'll rely on herd immunity [enough OTHER people are vaccinated by the app so I don't have to be] thanks :soapbox:

[Blknight.aus]

one of the guys at work installed it...

his battery life is halved. As I need to rely on my phone having solid battery performance as a safety measure the app stays off till they get the "always on" power drain under control. (may only be an issue on some phones but he and I use the same breed of phone)

[Homestar]

There are a few that I’ve seen complain about this but it seems those people previously didn’t have their bluetooth enabled at all times so that could be the reason - I haven’t noticed any difference in battery life - I make and receive around 70 calls a day plus emails and at this time of the day it’s usually at around 30% - which it is right now. Comes off the charger at 7.30am so pretty constant.

[Pickles2]

There are a few that I’ve seen complain about this but it seems those people previously didn’t have their bluetooth enabled at all times so that could be the reason - I haven’t noticed any difference in battery life - I make and receive around 70 calls a day plus emails and at this time of the day it’s usually at around 30% - which it is right now. Comes off the charger at 7.30am so pretty constant.
No difference in our phone (7+) either. I don't have a phone, don't need one, one's enough for us, but Karen showed me a download of the safety measures for this app, which I wanted to show the "usual" doubting Thomas's, but she said, no way, the amount of info, & therefore consequent download was "Huge".
All of our friends that we've spoken to have signed up.
Pickles.

[incisor]

one of the guys at work installed it...

his battery life is halved. As I need to rely on my phone having solid battery performance as a safety measure the app stays off till they get the "always on" power drain under control. (may only be an issue on some phones but he and I use the same breed of phone)

seems to affect some badly and others it hardly touches

my realme xt android it has little affect

my iphone 5s is drains quickly and slows the poor old girl down to a crawl if i open gmail as well

a customers phone i tried to set it up on today it simply brought it too its knees and we had to reboot then uninstall, was an android unit from overseas..

[W&KO]

There are a few that I’ve seen complain about this but it seems those people previously didn’t have their bluetooth enabled at all times so that could be the reason - I haven’t noticed any difference in battery life - I make and receive around 70 calls a day plus emails and at this time of the day it’s usually at around 30% - which it is right now. Comes off the charger at 7.30am so pretty constant.

I’m sitting on 90% from this morning....although my iPhone does have two batteries.

Haven’t notice any additional drain

[101RRS]

I am surprised there is an issue with battery life when using BT with some phones - I have a smart watch that needs to be within BT range of my phone so my BT is on all the time and I still have a 3 to 4 day battery life on the android phone.

[Rok_Dr]

Downloaded and installed it without any problems on my new iPhone SE2 which I got last Friday.

Apple seem to have Bluetooth lockdown a bit harder than android so once I’d worked out that I should leave the app running and enable battery mode all is working fine and I’m not getting any nag messages.

if all of us have to use the app to get back to normal life then I’m all for it. As to security and privacy, everything I have read says that it’s far ahead of Google and Facebook in this respect so I’m not particularly worried.

And no unusual battery drain issues to report so far.... but it is a new phone after all.

cheers

Steve

[Graeme]

I am surprised there is an issue with battery life when using BT with some phones - I have a smart watch that needs to be within BT range of my phone so my BT is on all the time and I still have a 3 to 4 day battery life on the android phone.Is your phone set to only pair with nominated devices? The app will presumably require open slather on connecting with any other BT device w/i range.

The only person with whom I'm close to for 15 minutes in this climate is my wife so I'm not going to jeopardise my phone's battery life for no benefit to anyone.

[Ancient Mariner]

Hey Homestar you might want to get a phone for your mates A pug has caught the virus[bigsad] sorry couldn't copy the link

[DiscoMick]

Oppo A1601
'This app is not compatible with your device.'

Wonder why? Maybe they just don't like Chinese phones.

[Homestar]

Hey Homestar you might want to get a phone for your mates A pug has caught the virus[bigsad] sorry couldn't copy the link

From the most reliable source in the world it seems - the Daily Express... 🤣

[incisor]

And no unusual battery drain issues to report so far.... but it is a new phone after all.


what sort of battery life you getting from it ?

[PhilipA]

I have to say that I am pretty surprised that almost 50% will not load the app.

it seems to me that this app is pretty harmless and far less intrusive than Google etc.

It is NOT tracking of your movements( for those who have mistresses I guess)

It looks to me that the number of hits will be very small but important in arresting the spread of the virus.

You only have to look at what happened at the Nursing Home in Sydney where one staff member who turned up sick for 5 days infected over 50 people with 12 dead so far.

The app has been endorsed by Ip professionals

What is the problem????? Do the doubters not believe anyone about anything? Maybe they should become preppers and lock themselves away in the boondocks.
Regards PhilipA

[spie]

It is NOT tracking of your movements

Regards PhilipA

Then why does it need GPS/Location services enabled?

[Pickles2]

I have to say that I am pretty surprised that almost 50% will not load the app.

it seems to me that this app is pretty harmless and far less intrusive than Google etc.

It is NOT tracking of your movements( for those who have mistresses I guess)

It looks to me that the number of hits will be very small but important in arresting the spread of the virus.

You only have to look at what happened at the Nursing Home in Sydney where one staff member who turned up sick for 5 days infected over 50 people with 12 dead so far.

The app has been endorsed by Ip professionals

What is the problem????? Do the doubters not believe anyone about anything? Maybe they should become preppers and lock themselves away in the boondocks.
Regards PhilipA
Agree.
I'm not into aps etc, haven't even got a phone, but Wifey has, and she's got "app's" all over the place. She believes, after having read the HUGE download available to explain the whole thing, that this app is far more safer than most of the internet sites, gaming options, & everything else, etc etc etc that are available on the net.
She also believes, as I do, that not being "alerted" as you will be with the app, could have serious consequences, if you are not "armed".
Like I said, I don't have a phone, but very very rarely am I out on my own, & when I am, I take the phone,...I can work out how to switch it on & off, access contacts etc & that's about all. The number of things a phone can do these days never ceases to amaze me!
Of course this is just what we think.
Pickles.

[PhilipA]

Then why does it need GPS/Location services enabled?
AFAIK it doesn't only Bluetooth.
Regards PhilipA

[spie]

Apologies, I was misinformed :wasntme:

[JDNSW]

"This version is not compatible with your device"

[Homestar]

I have to say that I am pretty surprised that almost 50% will not load the app.

it seems to me that this app is pretty harmless and far less intrusive than Google etc.

It is NOT tracking of your movements( for those who have mistresses I guess)

It looks to me that the number of hits will be very small but important in arresting the spread of the virus.

You only have to look at what happened at the Nursing Home in Sydney where one staff member who turned up sick for 5 days infected over 50 people with 12 dead so far.

The app has been endorsed by Ip professionals

What is the problem????? Do the doubters not believe anyone about anything? Maybe they should become preppers and lock themselves away in the boondocks.
Regards PhilipA

Yep, most people give things like online games far more info and access that this app uses - let alone Google and Facebook which has orders of magnitude more access and does track your location, but that's fine? - It's just the tin foil hat syndrome and too much fake news on the internet that scares people off I think.

So, can we add a line to the poll - who uses facebook or maps on their smartphone but won't download Covidsafe? [wink11]

[101RRS]

AFAIK it doesn't only Bluetooth.
Regards PhilipA

But in some installations it does require access to GPS.

[p38arover]

there are two rather minor security issues other than it needing the phone unlocked and it using amazon aws

it would be one of the safer apps out there it appears but i am not leaving my phone unlocked sorry


Minister for Government Services, Stuart Robert (stated) "Your phone does not need to be unlocked for the app to work.”

I haven't tried it yet.

[Homestar]

But in some installations it does require access to GPS.

But not to track you - I think that's something to do with how some android devices incorporate the use of the bluetooth but I'm no expert.

[Eevo]

But not to track you - I think that's something to do with how some android devices incorporate the use of the bluetooth but I'm no expert.


i think on older versions of android this is the case. on newer versions the bluetooth got its own access permissions

[101RRS]

But not to track you - I think that's something to do with how some android devices incorporate the use of the bluetooth but I'm no expert.

How do you know - because the Govt said it does not track you. Lets wait an see what happens.

[Eevo]

because the Govt said it does not track you


when did they become trustworthy?

[vnx205]

How do you know - because the Govt said it does not track you. Lets wait an see what happens.

No need to wait. Facebook is full of experts on cyber security who will offer all sorts of opinions on the subject.

Mind you, they are the same people who last week were experts on epidemics and immunity and the week before that they were experts on the dangers of 5G.

The week before that, they were experts on bushfire control and not long before that they were more knowledgeable than any doctor on the subject of the dangers of vaccines.

In the past they have been able to explain how controlled demolition brought down the Twin Towers, why we know that we didn't go to the moon and why the earth is flat.

With so many versatile people out there, there should be no problem getting opinions on that subject or indeed any subject.

[Homestar]

How do you know - because the Govt said it does not track you. Lets wait an see what happens.

Ok, how do you know they will? And more to the point - why would they and what would they use the data for? Faceplant and Google do so they can target advertising at you and sell you more stuff, I really don;t think the government would want to start collecting and collating data about where all the great unwashed go everyday. And once the pandemic is over, the app gets deleted so what's all the fuss about?

As I said before - tin foil hat brigade or criminals would be the only ones worried as I can't see what the issues are even if they do.

[ChookD2]

Why is anyone who does not want to use this app some sort of retarded, tin foil hat, conspiracy theorist who doesn't know their left hand from their right?????

Who is right????

Who gives a ****!!!!!

I have a Mygov log in, probably like a large percentage of the population. To that is linked the ATO, Centrelink, Jobactive, DVA and Medicare. The only reason I have all this crap is because it has been surreptitiously thrust upon us by successive grubberments so they can cut their work force and wage bill. No point ringing these organisation you will be on hold for a week. Yes the grubberment have **** loads of information about me, hell I was even investigated by ASIO for a security clearance every 5 years (or was it 2 years?) when I was enlisted. I use facecrap and googble and lots of other apps on my phone and yes some of them use my location like the weather app.

I won't be downloading this app, because I don't trust the grubberment to do anything right, especially in such haste. I was part of a study in 1993 for the development of a new combat boot for issue to the Australian Army. I got my first pair of those boots when I was deployed in East Timor in early 2000 and they were garbage. Improvements were made, they weren't too bad about 5 years later.

So, do I trust the grubberment when they tell me that this app is safe when it is developed in about 6 weeks or even "borrowed" from somewhere else. HELL NO!!!! Do I trust a grubberment that suggests that this app is the only way to returning to some form of normal, no, that is just threats, intimidation and/or bribery. Do I believe that the (any) grubberment want to have greater control over the population, yes.

Call me a tin hat wearing prepper if you like I don't trust any politician of any persuasion. They are only in it for the money.

[Bigbjorn]

Big Brother is watching you. Covert surveillance of the citizens should never be permitted in a democracy. I class speed cameras in the category of covert surveillance. "We are watching you just in case you do something we, the government, don't like."

[goingbush]

if your having trouble installing the ap , or if its asking for stuff it shouldn't be then you probably installing one of the fake aps going round.

I installed it on mine and my wifes phones no issues at all. had to fill out name (you can use a fake name) , age range , and phone number. the app asked for 2 permissions , I don't have a problem and I'm a conspiracy theorist if ever there was one.

Only a nutcase would have issues with the ap, or the security of the ap. Your on the internet FFS, your Govt already knows all about you & where you go. So what FFS , If your not adhering to social distancing then don't take your bloody phone to your right wing militia meetings , simple!

[V8Ian]

So from the results as of 19:00 30/04/2020 it can be concluded that:

Response 1, Definitely 51.67% of the population are sheep, doing exactly as they are told.

Response 2. Definitely not 25% of the population are fiol hat wearing conspiracy theorists.

Responses 3 & 4. Probably/ not 3.33% and 13.33% respectively can't make up their minds, the crisis will be behind us before they make a decision.

Response 5. No smartphone 3.33% of the population are Defender drivers.

Response 6. I can't do it, the tech is beyond me 3.33% there are still people who have Series as a daily drive.

:tease::Rolling::eek2:

[DeanoH]

Or perhaps ..................


Response 1. Definitely 51.67% of the population have an IQ >100 and have decided to 'choose life'

Response 2. Definitely not 25% of the population are Queenslanders

Responses 3 & 4. Probably/ not 16.66% can't make up their minds, and are either amoral politicians or Greens voters who are yet to decide what best serves their political ambitions or what is most politically correct

Response 5. No smartphone 3.33% of the population are Defender drivers.

Response 6. I can't do it, I'm one of the 3.33% of Australians who live in the 96.67% of the country that has crap mobile coverage


Deano :)

[V8Ian]

Oh dear Deano, did I hit a nerve or has the cool change got at you? [wink11]
My post was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

Is there an option for, 'This ap is incompatible with your device'?

[JDNSW]

I ticked the last one for that.

[DeanoH]

Oh dear Deano, did I hit a nerve or has the cool change got at you? [wink11]
My post was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek. [biggrin]


Tongue firmly planted in cheek here too Ian, [thumbsupbig] unfortunately it seems to have frozen in place. Perhaps I'll stick my head out the door and see if the icy blast can loosen it [tonguewink]

I'll use more emoticons next time so as not to give you sun addled northerners any cause for offence [bigwhistle]

Deano :)

[ChookD2]

Only a nutcase would have issues with the ap, or the security of the ap. Your on the internet FFS, your Govt already knows all about you & where you go. So what FFS , If your not adhering to social distancing then don't take your bloody phone to your right wing militia meetings , simple!

So I'm a nutcase now? This is what I'm talking about. What make you right and me wrong? What makes me right and you wrong? I know the grubberment knows a lot about me, still doesn't fill me with confidence that they can get this app right.

I don't have any work now so I sit at home and only go out to the shops for essentials or to take the missus to her medical appointments. I don't need an app to tell me to stay TF away from people. I did go fishing one day after I rang the police to check it was ok, nearest person was about 150m away. Didn't catch any fish or any virus.

[Corgie Carrier]

My phone is pre paid, no data, so no point me downloading it.
I'm not paying $10 a month just so the app will work.

[V8Ian]

Tongue firmly planted in cheek here too Ian, [thumbsupbig] unfortunately it seems to have frozen in place. Perhaps I'll stick my head out the door and see if the icy blast can loosen it [tonguewink]

I'll use more emoticons next time so as not to give you sun addled northerners any cause for offence [bigwhistle]

Deano :)
It's cooling down here, I may have to turn the air con off. [bigwhistle]

[DeanoH]

On a more serious note, I'll probably not download the app., at least not yet, and here's why.

1/. Keeping politics right out of it (if that's possible). After his 'lack lustre' response during the bushfires and white-anting of the state Premiers during this crisis, I don't trust the PM to do anything but put his political carreer / aspirations first. I consider his endorsement of the app. to be a negative not a positive. On the other hand if it was PM John Howard endorsing the app. he has both integrity and strength IMO and would gain my trust regardless of the politics. Basically I just don't trust the current PM to do the right thing for the right reasons.

2/. As for the app. itself I don't have a problem with it. The protections are there and it's a good thing and its use will save lives. I find it in-consistent / ludicrous that people would have privacy concerns about the non compulsory volunteering of contact information to save their life or some one else's especially if they're users of facebook, twitter etc and probably have 'location' enabled on their mobile phone anyway. Data mining is big business and this is what facebook is all about. I don't know much about twitter so can't really comment except to say if Donald Trump uses it then that's a very good reason for an intelligent person not to :)

My issue with the app. is to do with the data storage. If as the PM says the data is for use by the states then why set up a national data store ? especially without due process / oversight and then award the contract to one of the worlds biggest foreign data mining companys, Amazon ? Not only that but give over the data encryption/decription keys as well. For me it beggars belief. I think it's very naive to believe that Amazon won't back this data up to other servers and ultimately incorporate it into its own databases should it wish to do so.

IMO if the government was serious about allaying peoples concern about privacy data bases would have been set up in country on a state by state basis and not handed over to a foreign company that specialises in data mining. Also, if you can release the app. why can't you release the source code (as promised). To me it just doesn't ring true.

3/. We're fortunate enough to live on small acreage surrounded by larger properties in a rural environment so social distancing is a normal way of life for us compared to living in the suburbs/city. Today I left the property for the first time in 2 weeks. I went to the servo and filled up SWMBO's car. I've got fuel in the shed but thought I'd 'live on the edge' and venture out, probably irresponsible of me as I got to approx. 3 metres of the girl behind a glass screen at the servo as I 'tapped & go'd'.

SWMBO's a night shift nurse and midwife at the local regional hospital and is very careful. We're both in our mid '60s and haven't been out or entertained visitors for a while now so really the app. is of little use in our current 'bubble'.

I will consider downloading the app. should I need to go to the supermarket but we're good for another couple of weeks yet :)

Deano :)

[goingbush]

So I'm a nutcase now? This is what I'm talking about. What make you right and me wrong? What makes me right and you wrong? I know the grubberment knows a lot about me, still doesn't fill me with confidence that they can get this app right.

I don't have any work now so I sit at home and only go out to the shops for essentials or to take the missus to her medical appointments. I don't need an app to tell me to stay TF away from people. I did go fishing one day after I rang the police to check it was ok, nearest person was about 150m away. Didn't catch any fish or any virus.

your sitting at home with nothing to do, and you want this over, why don't you do some research instead of listening to fake news from tin foil hat *****.

Sooner a majority of people install the ap , the sooner the restrictions will be over, from ScoMo himself ,
as I said only a Nutcase would not install it

[ChookD2]

...(snip) .....from ScoMo himself ,

Ah .... from ScoMo himself. Why didn't you say so,....that fills me with ........ dread....... ScoMo, the man that put his hand on Turnbull's shoulder and said "I'm working hard for Malcolm" and then plunged the knife deep between his shoulder blades.

So we call this ... what? Coercion? Incentivisation? Intimidation? Bribery? Political Expedience? Or is this the stick that is holding the carrot of feedom. The stick they will beat us with later when we have eaten the carrot.

The good ol' fake news, just like Chickenman,..... is everywhere, is everywhere. I know, like everyone else, that if it is on Facebook it is true! [bigwhistle]Gunna go to the doctor and get me some disinfectant injections. Gotta make me a new tin foil hat too this one's got a hole in it, but I can still use it to line the grill.

I've got plenty of things to do at home, sitting is just one of them.

Only a nutcase would put their full trust in the government.

[PhilipA]

why does just about every thread turn political.

Deano and ChookD2 , you posts are political and may be deleted.
Regards PhilipA

[Eevo]

Sooner a majority of people install the ap , the sooner the restrictions will be over, from ScoMo himself ,


the sooner you give up your privacy to the govt, the sooner they will "release" us.

basically they are holding us to ransom

[goingbush]

i cant believe there are so many ****wits here , I thought you people had more intelligence. oh yeah , you drive LandRovers , maybe not. what a bunch of ****ing morons.

[101RRS]

what a bunch of ****ing morons.

In your opinion [bighmmm] - which by your posts does not mean much - if you happy to put the app on your phone then do - but dont be a dick about those who have decided not to - their decision is just as valid as your own.

[V8Ian]

Can we please settle down a bit fellows?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and have their right to hold that opinion respected. There is no need for mature adults to abuse each other for having differing opinions.

[DiscoMick]

I ticked the last one for that.I'm using the AULRO ap on an Android phone and I can't see the poll. No idea why. So I don't know what the choices are.


Here's an explanation of the bugs in the ap.

COVIDSafe rollout faces software bugs and lingering iPhone issues
COVIDSafe coronavirus contact-tracing app faces software bugs and lingering iPhone issues - ABC News (http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-05-01/covidsafe-contact-tracing-app-rollout-issues-iphone-wifi-bugs/12202876)

[Eevo]

Scientists have confirmed that downloading the CovidSafe app won’t improve your testosterone levels, social rank or get you laid.

[PhilipA]

I read a similar article in the Australian.
There was a comment made by a claimed computer engineer who said that he heard dropouts on his iPhone in locked mode when running past other runners and assumed that the digital handshake was working.
I note that there were plenty of "coulds" and "should" in the ABC report.

From my point of view when my phone is locked and I get in my car and scroll the stereo , the moment I scroll into BT audio the bloody phone starts playing music even when I select a radio station, all this when locked. It's pretty annoying .

Also phone calls are transferred to my stereo and and my wife's Jazz sound system when the phone is locked via Bluetooth.

My wife has a 5se? the later 5 on about Os12.4 and my SE runs the latest OS 13something.

I think this could be Fake News but anyway I am sure there will be a release 01 soon to fix it if it is a problem

Regards PhilipA

[vnx205]

One of the reasons that a civilised society like ours works fairly well most of the time is because most people do the right thing most of the time.

We don't need draconian road rules because most of us obey the current rules most of the time.

The children of anti-vaxxers avoid potentially life threatening childhood diseases because usually enough other children are vaccinated to create the herd immunity that protects the unvaccinated.

The same thing will probably happen with the COVIDSafe app. If enough of us download the app to make it possible to ease some restrictions then everyone will enjoy the benefits.

Those who refuse to download because they don't trust the government, worry that their phone battery will go flat, are concerned that the app will allow their wife to learn about their mistress or because they read something written by some anonymous person on Facebook, will also enjoy whatever benefits might result from widespread use of the app.

One reason a minority are not greatly disadvantaged by refusing to co-operate is because most of us see the possibility of a benefit to society.

If this app works, they will be unlikely to thank those of us who downloaded it.

[ChookD2]

The bluetooth radius is too large, upto and at times in excess of 10m.

Lets say someone has been particularly vigilant, top hygiene, staying at home, avoiding almost everyone. This person has been at home for the last 5 days with no close contact with anyone. This person decides to download the app. The next day this person decides that they want to get out just a little, so choose to get in their car and hit the drive through at (insert favourite takeaway). It is a particularly busy day in the drive through this day and takes a little over 15mins to get in and out. Plenty of time for this persons phone to be collecting data of those in cars in front and behind. Maybe even two cars in front and behind.

Back home and another 3 days without seeing a soul and the phone rings. It's their employer, "great news things are picking up we need you back at work tomorrow". Five minutes later the phone rings again, "You may have been in contact with a positive case of Covid19 and are required to self isolate for the next 14 days and may be prosecuted if you leave your home."

Go shopping at the supermarket. How many people are you within 10m of for 15 minutes or more?

Businesses start to open, traffic starts to get slower again. You could be within 10m of the car in front, behind and the next lane for more that 15mins. Still no contact. But you still could get that phone call. Too many situations where there is no close contact at all, but could result in isolation.

[vnx205]

The bluetooth radius is too large, upto and at times in excess of 10m..

All the information I have seen says you have to be withing 1.5 metres for the app to record a contact.

Unless everyone is driving something shorter than a Smartcar, the problem you describe can't happen.

Do you have a source that says 10 metres rather than 1.5 metres?

[V8Ian]

Can bt measure distance?

[ChookD2]

Bluetooth is just bluetooth you will find most, if not all phones work on Class 2. This page (https://www.explainthatstuff.com/howbluetoothworks.html)explains it and security issues.

A quote from that page....

"The power of the transmitter governs the range over which a Bluetooth device can operate and, generally, devices are said to fall into one of three classes: class 1 are the most powerful and can operate up to 100m (330ft), class 2 (the most common kind) operate up to 10m (33ft), and class 3 are the least powerful and don't go much beyond 1m (3.3ft)."

I play music from my phone (in my pocket) to a bluetooth speaker in my shed and will remain connected at over 10m.

[101RRS]

All the information I have seen says you have to be within 1.5 metres for the app to record a contact.

Unless everyone is driving something shorter than a Smartcar, the problem you describe can't happen.

Do you have a source that says 10 metres rather than 1.5 metres?

Bluetooth has a range up to about 12m - I know this because I have checked it with my smart watch and phone - the watch needs to be within BT range of the phone and when outside of range it alarms and displays a disconnected icon. With the phone in a back room of my standard suburban house I can get to the letterbox out near the street before the watch disconnects - about 12m.

So the source that with app will pick up other phones with the app installed up to 10m away is certainly reasonable.

Garry

[ChookD2]

COVIDSafe app | Australian Government Department of Health (https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app#about-the-app)

There is no mention of 1.5m.

It does state that "it notes the date, time, distance and duration of the contact" but I can't find any information that suggests that bluetooth distance measuring is all that accurate. At best the information I have seen and mostly don't understand, says that it is only accurate to within a few metres.

[Graeme]

My noise cancelling headphones stay connected to my S5 phone playing music when well over 50m away and stay connected when I'm inside the tow-behind metal seed cart over 10m away.

[Saitch]

My noise cancelling headphones stay connected to my S5 phone playing music when well over 50m away and stay connected when I'm inside the tow-behind metal seed cart over 10m away.

Tsk, tsk. How are you ever going to pick up a subtle change in the mechanical symphony which could be the start, or finish, of something big?[bigwhistle]

[Graeme]

They're not that good but do make a big difference to higher pitch noises and allow phone conversations which are not possible without them.

[vnx205]

I didn't write that I had read that bluetooth only had a range of 1.5 metres. I said I had read that a contact was only recorded if the phones were within 1.5 metres of each other.

The issue is not about the potential range of bluetooth. The issue is about how this app works.

I still haven't found an article that says the app records contacts out to 10, 12 or 50 metres.

[Homestar]

Go shopping at the supermarket. How many people are you within 10m of for 15 minutes or more?



Zero.

[Graeme]

Do people really believe that it takes 15 minutes to contract the virus? Who else turns their head away and holds their breath until passers-by have gone?

My local PO won't supply pens because they think that they need to be discarded once used, yet they insist on keeping the door closed so that everyone touches both the inside and outside handles twice every time even though I drew this to their attention.

[DiscoMick]

I read the 15 minutes was adopted to filter out minor contacts that were unlikely to result in infection, so the contact tracers could concentrate on the most likely contacts.

[Graeme]

Its obviously a compromise to keep the data load and tracing work to an acceptable level but it gives a false indication of the level and therefore the persistence of the virus in the community. The number of reports that I've heard this morning of local people having gone visiting the moment the NSW restrictions were slightly relaxed concerns me.

[DiscoMick]

I was in a Bunnings this morning and it was absolutely jumping, but they did have measures in place to limit the number of people in aisles.

[vnx205]

COVIDSafe app | Australian Government Department of Health (https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app#about-the-app)

There is no mention of 1.5m.

It does state that "it notes the date, time, distance and duration of the contact" but I can't find any information that suggests that bluetooth distance measuring is all that accurate. At best the information I have seen and mostly don't understand, says that it is only accurate to within a few metres.

The Dept of Health site doesn't seem to mention an exact distance, but a huge number of other sources all use the figure of 1.5 metres.
eg.
The only information they are allowed to access is that of close contacts – when a person has come within approximately 1.5 metres of another app user for 15 minutes or more – in their jurisdiction,” Minister Robert said.

and

Released on Sunday, COVIDSafe (https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app) uses Bluetooth to connect with other phones within 1.5 metres (4.9 feet) which also have the app installed. If they are in contact for over 15 minutes (https://www.health.gov.au/ministers/the-hon-greg-hunt-mp/media/press-conference-about-the-covidsafe-app-launch), the app records data such as the date, time, contact distance and duration, and the other user's encrypted identification code. This information is stored on the user's phone for 21 days, after which it is automatically deleted.

I suppose it is possible that one person like the Minister for Government Services made up the figure of 1.5 metres and every other source is just repeating that.

However, since the official Dept of Health site mentions that distance is one of the pieces of data recorded, it seem logical that the app is not simply recording every contact that comes within the maximum range of bluetooth on that particular device.

If officials are using that figure of 1.5 metres, then even allowing for the inaccuracy of bluetooth distance measurement, it seems unlikely that contact would be recorded for a phone 10 metres away.

[Homestar]

I was in a Bunnings this morning and it was absolutely jumping, but they did have measures in place to limit the number of people in aisles.

Yes, but there are still people that completely ignore this - needed some stuff for a job at work so was there early (first hour Tradies only) and was waiting at the end of the nut and bolt aisle with a sign saying ‘6 only at a time’ - so me and another guy were patiently waiting, when another guy just walks past us both and mutters ‘**** that’ and just walks down the aisle.

Can’t do anything about stupid unfortunately.

[bob10]

COVID app alternatives.

The COVIDSafe app was just one contact tracing option. These alternatives guarantee more privacy (https://theconversation.com/the-covidsafe-app-was-just-one-contact-tracing-option-these-alternatives-guarantee-more-privacy-137400?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20 for%20May%201%202020%20-%201609115424&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20f or%20May%201%202020%20-%201609115424+CID_0d71e94634996ed84ff9f4035c999e34&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=The%20COVIDSafe%20app%20was%20just%20one% 20contact%20tracing%20option%20These%20alternative s%20guarantee%20more%20privacy)

[DiscoMick]

COVID app alternatives.

The COVIDSafe app was just one contact tracing option. These alternatives guarantee more privacy (https://theconversation.com/the-covidsafe-app-was-just-one-contact-tracing-option-these-alternatives-guarantee-more-privacy-137400?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20 for%20May%201%202020%20-%201609115424&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20f or%20May%201%202020%20-%201609115424+CID_0d71e94634996ed84ff9f4035c999e34&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=The%20COVIDSafe%20app%20was%20just%20one% 20contact%20tracing%20option%20These%20alternative s%20guarantee%20more%20privacy)That's a very interesting article and raises important questions, such as why the data isn't encrypted, could terrorism laws force access to data and will contact tracing be built into Google and iPhones.
Plus today it was admitted the CovidSafe ap is interfering with a diabetes safety ap.
And state health authorities aren't able yet to access the data.

[RANDLOVER]

I like little phones that I can stick in my top pocket, so I just get the cheapies now (after a grey import Samsung screen locked up), the one I have won't even read QR codes, with 3 reader apps downloaded, so I don't fancy it's chances. Also the app I'm interested in is one that tells me which way to run when someone with C-19 approaches.[biggrin]

[Pickles2]

Well, I believe the "App" is a "No Brainer,",....it is designed to protect YOU, & US.
There are some on this forum who would never, in IMHO, vote for anything that they feel has not been orchestrated by someone of their particular political persuasion.....But whist it's not about that, some people obviously can't rise above that.
I have been tempted to mention the number of negative comments by one particular member with respect to the App, He's spoken so many times, so many times, about how it's not safe, no good, no-one's signed up, etc etc etc,...TOTALLY NEGATIVE all the time, totally ignoring all of the benefits that ARE beneficial to us all. I hope that none of his relos are affected, that may not have been, if they'd been "armed".
IMHO there are NO NEGATIVES to this app,..Just sign up for it, it ain't gonna harm you,..the Chief Medical Officer, who is "Non Political" has said DO IT, all it will do is enable "The Team" to more quickly locate infected people,....is that an issue with you? ...Given the reasons, please,...... forget politics,....Just DO IT, you'll be helping Aussie.
Pickles.
As usual, all IMHO, of course.
Just listening to the ABC, talking about Countries that are going ok with numbers, they mention South Korea,....NO CHOICE THERE,...if ya've got a phone, ya'll be tracked!

[101RRS]

the Chief Medical Officer, who is "Non Political"

Sorry but the Chief Medical Officer (Brendan Murphy) is the Secretary for the Federal Department of Health - so is very far from being independent nor being "Non Political".

[350RRC]

I like little phones that I can stick in my top pocket, so I just get the cheapies now (after a grey import Samsung screen locked up), the one I have won't even read QR codes, with 3 reader apps downloaded, so I don't fancy it's chances. Also the app I'm interested in is one that tells me which way to run when someone with C-19 approaches.[biggrin]

Have a look at the new iPhone SE reviews.

Small phone,same chip as an 11.

DL

[Pickles2]

Sorry but the Chief Medical Officer (Brendan Murphy) is the Secretary for the Federal Department of Health - so is very far from being independent nor being "Non Political".
I say He is. If you listen to him, any person who can view his comments in a "non political" environment, ( but which is unfortunately & obviously impossible for some), you would be able to see that He is simply speaking relative to a Medical perspective, which perspective is obviously, & unfortunately, impossible to comprehend for some reading this, because of their political bias. Very sad.
Pickles.

[Saitch]

Strewth, it's a close one, ay!

Still close!

[jerryd]

My phones too vintage !! [bigwhistle]

[laney]

I won't down load this app as I don't trust governments weather they are local,state or feberal and I have the same distrust for Liberal as Labour they have a history of lieing to us for there own benifit

[ChookD2]

Australia's COVIDSafe contact tracing story is full of holes and we should worry | ZDNet (https://www.zdnet.com/article/australias-covidsafe-contact-tracing-story-is-full-of-holes-and-we-should-worry/)

[gavinwibrow]

Sorry but the Chief Medical Officer (Brendan Murphy) is the Secretary for the Federal Department of Health - so is very far from being independent nor being "Non Political".


Can't accept that!

I've known and worked with quite a few senior bureaucrats both state and federal, and in my view, almost to a person, they were very careful not to let any political leaning (if you even found out which way they were inclined) affect their professional judgements.

[101RRS]

Can't accept that!

I've known and worked with quite a few senior bureaucrats both state and federal, and in my view, almost to a person, they were very careful not to let any political leaning (if you even found out which way they were inclined) affect their professional judgements.

Keep on believing that [bigrolf]

[gavinwibrow]

Interesting?
Even though I signed up in the first couple of hours on day 1, I've just received a govt txt msg asking me to sign up - and yes I have android and I know the app is switched on.

[Eevo]

Interesting?
Even though I signed up in the first couple of hours on day 1, I've just received a govt txt msg asking me to sign up - and yes I have android and I know the app is switched on.


i think the servers in the background only came online today

[Barraman]

Common sense is slowly prevailing!

Personally I don't care if the government collects data on me, they already have a ****load anyway. Don't care if they track my movements, which the CovidSafe app doesn't do anyway, cause I don't go anywhere they care about. Oh, hang on a mo, if I carry a mobile phone that's turned on they can track me anyway!

Its interesting to see people bitching about the effects of the lock-down on their personal life and/or businesses on the one hand - but won't do the thing that will go a long way to getting things back to near normal cause they feel their right to privacy might be breeched.

[vnx205]

I won't down load this app as I don't trust governments weather they are local,state or feberal and I have the same distrust for Liberal as Labour they have a history of lieing to us for there own benifit

Of all the unconvincing arguments I have read from people who say they won't download the app, this is surely the weakest, least logical, most shortsighted of them all.

The government already has access to much more sensitive data about you than anything this app can collect. Since they already have so much specific, sensitive data, what do people think they are achieving by withholding this data? Unless you come in contact with someone who tests positive, then the government won't get any information at all.

When I asked some time ago for someone to explain to me exactly how they thought their life would be impacted by the health authorities getting hold of the data the app collects, all I was offered was a (presumably hypothetical) story about your wife getting information about your mistress.

I am still waiting for a specific example from someone about how their life will be affected. I can understand that if you are a drug dealer or an adulterer, you might be reluctant to respond. However, there must be some of us here who lead more mundane lives.

[Pickles2]

Of all the unconvincing arguments I have read from people who say they won't download the app, this is surely the weakest, least logical, most shortsighted of them all.

The government already has access to much more sensitive data about you than anything this app can collect. Since they already have so much specific, sensitive data, what do people think they are achieving by withholding this data? Unless you come in contact with someone who tests positive, then the government won't get any information at all.

When I asked some time ago for someone to explain to me exactly how they thought their life would be impacted by the health authorities getting hold of the data the app collects, all I was offered was a (presumably hypothetical) story about your wife getting information about your mistress.

I am still waiting for a specific example from someone about how their life will be affected. I can understand that if you are a drug dealer or an adulterer, you might be reluctant to respond. However, there must be some of us here who lead more mundane lives.
My friend, there are some on this Forum, who despite ScoMo & his team giving Aussie pretty much the best protection from the Virus on the Planet, have yet to give him even ONE vote of confidence or appreciation, not even ONE, an examination of their posts will show the bias, the same applies to the App. Simply childish.
I like my Politics too, Daniel Andrews has not been one of my favorites, but boy, have I changed my mind about him, He has really stood up for all Victorians. Give credit where credit is due is my motto, but obviously not to some.
This Virus Is WAY above Poliitics IMHO, but again, a perusal of posts of SOME members will show that they are incapable of adopting such a stance.
Regards, Pickles.

[bob10]

Does the App actually work? 4 million signed up, and it is still not turned on.

Coronavirus app tracing capability not yet operational, despite 4 million downloads - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-02/coronavirus-app-currently-not-fully-operational/12208924)

[bob10]

Well if you've done nothing wrong, you shouldn't have a worry. But the App is not secure.


Experts warn there are still legal ways the US could obtain COVIDSafe data - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-28/covidsafe-tracing-app-data-may-not-be-protected-from-usa/12189372)

[incisor]

from where i have been sitting i thought it was plainly obvious that the federal goverment was dragged kicking and screaming into action by NSW and Vic goverments when they refused to do it the way the feds wanted it done and still are refusing to do it the way the feds want it done

wish QLD was with them on a lot of things to be frank

and when you consider they were all aware and were soundly warned in January, it all took way to long to occur even when it did

what did you see or hear that i didn't ?

[ChookD2]

This will be my last post in this thread because tbh I over the bullying.

Just because someone chooses not to download this app they are childish, a nutcase or a ****ing moron! But we have a choice, we are given that choice. I have not seen anywhere in this thread where those choosing not to use the app have insulted or belittled those in the opposite camp. I'll correct myself there, in one post I did write "Only a nutcase would fully trust the government", which I think is a fair comment given the insults directed at myself and others.

I have made a few post with, what I believe are legitimate concerns, but because I don't want to use this app I'm some sort paranoid delusional idiot. Fine whatever floats you boat.

I am doing my part as I see fit and within the guidelines/rules/laws, to protect ME and MY family and in doing so I'm subsequently protecting others. As I have said, I don't need an app to tell me to stay the **** away from people, I'm pretty good at it.

Just before I was put off at work when all this started and the pubs and eateries closed, the store I worked in remained open. The number of people that were "just browsing" was beyond comprehehsion. I felt like yelling at some of them to GO HOME!. I tried to maintain my distance but these tools just stepped forward, invading my personal space, I was kind of glad when the boss said there was no more work til further notice, I could go home stay safe.

I have NO political persuasion!!! I don't believe ANY of my comments were one way or the other for or against the current government or any other political party. I made a comment about Scomo before he was PM but it was nothing that was not on many media outlets and was common knowledge.

So if you believe I'm a nutcase, idiot, childish or just an out and out ****ing moron you can have that belief and I can have my choice about this ****ing app.

[Eevo]

Well if you've done nothing wrong, you shouldn't have a worry.

said hitler to the jews.

[vnx205]

said hitler to the jews.

Godwin's Law!

[Eevo]

Godwin's Law!

said Goebbels to the people.

[bob10]

This may put some people's mind at ease. It tells of the penalties for misuse. EDIT


Coronavirus: Australian businesses can’t ban people without COVIDSafe (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/05/05/covidsafe-app-legislation-fine/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020200505)

[101RRS]

This may put some people's mind at ease. It tells of the penalties for misuse. EDIT


Coronavirus: Australian businesses can’t ban people without COVIDSafe (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/05/05/covidsafe-app-legislation-fine/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020200505)

Means didley squat - remember when the AFP broke the meta data laws - they just said sorry and nothing happened - administrative error.

[DiscoMick]

I give the federal government about 8 out of 10 on this. I give the Premiers 9 out of 10.
I ignore their politics in giving those ratings, it's purely based on their performances.

[trout1105]

After the census debacle I have little trust in software the gov uses an I also simply dont trust the buggers.
NO way am I going to install this app

[Pickles2]

After the census debacle I have little trust in software the gov uses an I also simply dont trust the buggers.
NO way am I going to install this app
"Trust"?...Well, strange though it may seem, "trust" doesn't come into it for Wifey or me. We don't care whether the Govt be Labor, Liberal, Nats, or whatever, we mightn't agree with some of their policies, but we don't think any Aussie Govt would try to screw us via untrustworthiness.
AND, we don't think anyone is a (I quote) a "Moron", if they don't sign up, it's simply their opinion, which we don't agree with, or they with ours,...that's all.
But we sincerely do believe that with the "easing of restrictions" which we all want, and it has to happen as the country cannot support the current situation, the app will be VITAL. Why is that?, well, with more freedoms there will unfortunately be some "outbreaks", which is where the app will come into its own because it will enable instant tracking & advice, to those who have come into contact with an infected person, & undoubtedly saving many further infections as a consequence of early detection.
Pickles.

[trout1105]

I don't "Mingle" and I have absolutely NO intention of travelling Anywhere there are other people until an anti virus is available and at that stage there will be No need for this app anyway.
I do think that with the easing of restrictions there will be a second wave So I fully intend to keep myself isolated and wont be taking advantage of the easing of restrictions untill i can get imunised.
In the meantime there isn't an iron clad guarantee that the data collected with this app is 100% Secure, So thanks But No thanks.

[vnx205]

I don't "Mingle" and I have absolutely NO intention of travelling Anywhere there are other people until an anti virus is available and at that stage there will be No need for this app anyway.
I do think that with the easing of restrictions there will be a second wave So I fully intend to keep myself isolated and wont be taking advantage of the easing of restrictions untill i can get imunised.
In the meantime there isn't an iron clad guarantee that the data collected with this app is 100% Secure, So thanks But No thanks.

I think there are some people who don't have the advantage that you have of continuing isolation until they feel things are more under control.

Even if the data isn't 100% secure, what do you think any person or any organisation is going to do with the data the app collects?

I'm still waiting for someone to give me a specific example of how their life will be adversely affected even if the app has all the problems some people think it might have.

[Pickles2]

I think there are some people who don't have the advantage that you have of continuing isolation until they feel things are more under control.

Even if the data isn't 100% secure, what do you think any person or any organisation is going to do with the data the app collects?

I'm still waiting for someone to give me a specific example of how their life will be adversely affected even if the app has all the problems some people think it might have.
As I've said before it's a "No Brainer", AFAIAC, especially when restrictions are relaxed and social isolation is no longer the case, the Ap will be a vital part of tracking,....vital,...it'll enable almost instantaneous tracking & location of both infected & potential infections, which is gonna save lives, it'll be a vital part of getting back to normal.
It will also play an invaluable part in locating infection "cells" before they get out of hand, and if they do this time, I reckon we'll be in plenty bigger trouble that we have been.
Pickles.

[Graeme]

At the supermarket today where there were very few people, my wife stayed well clear of a woman who coughed and sneezed repeatedly into her arms and hands. A short while later after the woman had walked away, my wife was standing scanning a shelf area for a particular item when the woman ran into my wife's back knocking her unsteady so my wife did not see which part of the woman contacted her - whether it was her back or one of her arms. Probably fortunately the woman didn't stick around to apologise. The close encounter was for a very brief period as my wife got away from the woman very quickly, but even if both people had installed the app, the app wouldn't have recorded the encounter. The woman's husband was with her, so probably another person spreading germs of some description with only momentary proximity to other people.

Unfortunately my wife didn't think to inform me or the store staff so I wonder for how much longer the woman was able to spread her germs. My wife's clothes went into the wash the moment we returned home and as usual we sanitised our hands on returning to the car and washed them on returning home but we now wait 2 weeks to see if anything eventuates. IMO the app is useless.

[spie]

As I've said before it's a "No Brainer", AFAIAC, especially when restrictions are relaxed and social isolation is no longer the case, the Ap will be a vital part of tracking,....vital,...it'll enable almost instantaneous tracking & location of both infected & potential infections
Pickles.

But it doesn't track location...

As for the app tracking contacts that are <1.5M and ignoring those further away via BT, pretty sure that's not possible with any degree of accuracy.

[bob10]

Are people who refuse to download the app the new anti-vaxxers?

COVIDSafe: No excuse to not download virus tracing app (https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/people-who-refuse-to-download-the-covidsafe-virus-tracing-app-are-the-new-antivaxxers/news-story/541c36fe5cdb56eb1a098b0b9a0dddcc)

[bob10]

Do you want me to edit option five to "I don't have a very smart phone"? [wink11]


In my case add " not smart enough to use it" .Damn this virus, pushing me into the 21st century.

[bob10]

But it doesn't track location...

As for the app tracking contacts that are <1.5M and ignoring those further away via BT, pretty sure that's not possible with any degree of accuracy.

I don't pretend to understand , but it is a tracing app, not a tracking app.


"this is a TRACING not a TRACKING app.As such, you only authorise use of the information it collects if you are diagnosed with COVID-19. It’s harmless for the user but hugely beneficial in our fight against the virus."

[Pickles2]

Yes, it's Pickles again, "banging on" about the App, you'll think.
Only I'm not "banging on" about the App, I'm BEGGING, you to sign up.
Hopefully, there are now signs that we are going to progress to gradual "release" from our "restrictions", and this when this App will be VITAL in detecting early infections, & assist in preventing a second outbreak...it will alert you if you have come into contact with an infected person, it will enable YOU to be detected early, maybe enabling YOU to go into self isolation before you quite possibly & innocently infect your loved ones, parents, grandparents etc.
So Yes, I'm begging, read the HUGE download relative to use & safety,..it's VITAL imho.
An example of what this virus does is the meatworks in Vic, a worker detected 2nd April,....for some unknown, selfish reason, continues to work,...45 people now infected,...that we know of.
Pickles.

[DiscoMick]

I don't pretend to understand , but it is a tracing app, not a tracking app.


"this is a TRACING not a TRACKING app.As such, you only authorise use of the information it collects if you are diagnosed with COVID-19. It’s harmless for the user but hugely beneficial in our fight against the virus."As I understand, it doesn't record your location, it only records the serial number of the other user of the ap. That recording is on your phone, not anywhere else.
If an ap user tests positive they are asked by message to upload the data from their phone to the state health authority, which they can choose to do or not.
The data is then used to message the users who have been in close contact for 15 minutes or more with a warning that they have been in contact with a positive person and should be tested.
Also the phone user can delete the ap at any time and no trace is left.
I think the above is correct.
I was initially sceptical, but have changed.my mind and would now install the ap, except it does not support my device, probably because it was bought overseas.

[Pickles2]

As I understand, it doesn't record your location, it only records the serial number of the other user of the ap. That recording is on your phone, not anywhere else.
If an ap user tests positive they are asked by message to upload the data from their phone to the state health authority, which they can choose to do or not.
The data is then used to message the users who have been in close contact for 15 minutes or more with a warning that they have been in contact with a positive person and should be tested.
Also the phone user can delete the ap at any time and no trace is left.
I think the above is correct.
I was initially sceptical, but have changed.my mind and would now install the ap, except it does not support my device, probably because it was bought overseas.
Good to hear, but sorry your phone does not accept?
Anyway, you would if you could!
Regards, Pickles.

[vnx205]

... .... ... ....
Unfortunately my wife didn't think to inform me or the store staff so I wonder for how much longer the woman was able to spread her germs. My wife's clothes went into the wash the moment we returned home and as usual we sanitised our hands on returning to the car and washed them on returning home but we now wait 2 weeks to see if anything eventuates. IMO the app is useless.

I hope that what you meant to say is that in the situation you described, the app would have been useless. In that case, you are quite right.

Otherwise your blanket statement makes as much sense as saying that seat belts are useless because you know of someone who was wearing a seat belt when they were killed in a car crash.

Will this app detect every instance of someone infecting another person? No, of course it won't. Do seat belts and air bags offer a 100% guarantee that you won't be killed in a car crash. Again, the answer is no.

The app is not intended to be a single tool that will magically make this virus disappear. It is just one of many things that will be needed to control the spread of the virus.

It will enable health authorities to more quickly and effectively track down some of the community transmissions. The sooner such transmissions are identified, the less opportunity there is for the infected person to continue to infect others.

It is important that none of those measures are rejected simply because they are less than 100% effective. While it is possible to think of circumstances where the app would not help, it is possible to think of many where it would be useful.

[101RRS]

Reports of tracking bugs in the App.

Expert finds tracking bugs in the COVIDSafe app that could leave domestic violence victims open to being followed (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/expert-finds-tracking-bugs-in-the-covidsafe-app-that-could-leave-domestic-violence-victims-open-to-being-followed/ar-BB13FXng?li=AAgfYrC&ocid=mailsignout)

[ramblingboy42]

I see this morning that the ABC attempted to contact all our members of Parliament asking if they had downloaded the app.

21 said no , 17 wouldn't comment.

It makes me wonder that if that %age of our elected parliamentarians can't comply , what hope does the Govt have when they expect the citizens to comply?

There are some genuine reasons for non compliance but millions of Australians may have similar reasons too.

Did I see a suggestion of blackmail on news last night?

[Homestar]

Did they say out of those they got hold of which side of Government they were on?

[Pickles2]

Did they say out of those they got hold of which side of Government they were on?
Excellent point,...that would make a very big difference!
Regards,Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

some names were mentioned...I was being politically cautious here

[Homestar]

No one else has been in this thread. 🤣

[DiscoMick]

There were people in both the federal government and the federal opposition who had not downloaded.
Some said they were waiting to see the legislation passed next week to be sure it really said what had been promised.
One Senator said he was regularly contacted by whistleblowers and did not want to risk revealing their identity.
Another said there were legal questions about if a court order could overrule the Minister for Health's Biosecurity Order.
Most of the minor party people had not downloaded the ap and said they did not trust the government.

One story I read said the ap will not work on about 10% of smartphones. There is also the known problem with iPhones.

[PhilipA]

Apple is working on the Iphone issue of degraded performance if on standby if the app is not active when phone locked. I cannot really understand this as the reports all seem to talk about possible and maybe.

Seeing the app is not yet live , i don't think it is an issue. By the time it becomes live the creases should be ironed out . It is a weeks and months out thing not a "oh it doesn't work today so I won't download it"

Regards PhilipA

[Pickles2]

The importance of this ap can be clearly demonstrated re the meatworks outbreak in Vic,....had all those infected, or those who are in potential danger of such, through contact, etc etc, been armed with the ap, all possible infections would be identified by now, and all would have been instructed to self isolate. As it is, a laborious contact id process has to be carried out with the danger of further infections in the meantime.
Pickles.

[PhilipA]

Assuming no more lies told by the people involved.
Regards PhilipA

[Markf]

At least one good thing has come out of the app. Telstra have, in the last few days, implemented SMS over WiFi. ie. The abaility to send and receive SMS when you have a WiFi but no Telstra mobile coverage.

My view is that by the time all the show stopper bugs are ironed out the need for the app will have passed. Thus far it only works with a subset of phones and the state health depts. have no access to the back end which apparently is also bug ridden.

[DiscoMick]

Allowing SMS over wifi is excellent. Even in Maleny on the Sunshine Coast the mobile signal is really poor and you have to walk outside for calls, but our home wifi is five bars.
I'n awaiting the result of my COVID - 19 test, which will come by SMS, hopefully tomorrow, so enabling it over Wifi is important to me.

[ramblingboy42]

The importance of this ap can be clearly demonstrated re the meatworks outbreak in Vic,....had all those infected, or those who are in potential danger of such, through contact, etc etc, been armed with the ap, all possible infections would be identified by now, and all would have been instructed to self isolate. As it is, a laborious contact id process has to be carried out with the danger of further infections in the meantime.
Pickles.

It's not in operation yet is it?

[bob10]

The importance of this ap can be clearly demonstrated re the meatworks outbreak in Vic,....had all those infected, or those who are in potential danger of such, through contact, etc etc, been armed with the ap, all possible infections would be identified by now, and all would have been instructed to self isolate. As it is, a laborious contact id process has to be carried out with the danger of further infections in the meantime.
Pickles.

The app is not operational yet. So it would have made no difference to that outbreak, but it would be crucial for future ones. If it ever gets turned on.

[bob10]

Did they say out of those they got hold of which side of Government they were on?

The usual suspects, including the LNP.


Has your MP downloaded the COVIDSafe tracing app? (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coronavirus/2020/05/07/mps-senators-tracing-app/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020200508)

[p38arover]

It seems that the app doesn't work that well on iPhones.


The main issue? It doesn't always complete digital "handshakes" with nearby phones that also have the app installed if it isn't running in the foreground (on the screen at all times) or has been installed on an older iPhone model. Additionally, it may not work at all when the screen is locked. Android phones seem OK, but more than 50 per cent of smartphones in Australia are iPhones.

"The quality of the Bluetooth connectivity for phones that have the app installed, running in the foreground is very good," said head of the Digital Transformation Agency Randall Brugeaud, whose agency is in charge of the app.

"It progressively deteriorates and the quality of the connection is not as good as you get to a point where the phone is locked and the app is running in the background.”

Coronavirus Australia: COVIDSafe iPhone app not fit for purpose (https://www.smh.com.au/technology/the-covidsafe-app-is-not-fit-for-purpose-on-iphones-20200506-p54qjk.html)

My iPhone is usually locked and the app runs in the background. A waste of time?

[DiscoMick]

Apparently it does still work a bit when the iPhone is locked, but not near as well as when the phone is unlocked. Makes no difference on Android. Another reason not to buy an iPhone?

[incisor]

Apparently it does still work a bit when the iPhone is locked, but not near as well as when the phone is unlocked. Makes no difference on Android. Another reason not to buy an iPhone?

i use both OSes on a daily basis

from a usabilty / utility point of view, for me, the iphone is in front by a fair bit but there are some aspects of android that are marginally better, but they are very few in number

i turn covid on when i go out on the android phone as i leave my phones locked and the iphone issues render the app next to usless from what i have read.

never know the data may actually do something one day...

[W&KO]

Covidsafe is not compatible with my phone.

Mick, you’re bagging iPhones (guessing you’ve probably never owned one) and your android phone cannot even download the app!!!

[workingonit]

I've voted definitely not.

I think the app idea in principle is an excellent one. We need to take the app idea and refine it for the future - but will we learn or just give it to a committee where it will die. There are many issues as to why mobile phones are not ideal but understand their attraction in the heat of the moment. For the future we should have a simple device with standardised compatible software that simply does one job and we have one for everyone before the next drama.

Should we jump on board the app now - won't hurt - may do some good - but may also lead to some illegals - the 'curve' is flattening without the app - wouldn't put my entire fortune on it but I reckon increased random testing will just about wipe it out not too soon (more money on app vs more money testing), plus just maintaining sensible distancing/hygiene.

Regarding the covid app. Things I have not seen questioned on or answered - maybe someone can inform:
- apps are often developed to make some money. Has the underlying code been used elsewhere and how securely? Was the pandemic just another marketing opportunity? Politicians without any tech savvy love to run with a theme that is a novel attraction and poorly advised on ie social services minister saying denial of service attack later backtracking that system not designed for such a load. Gov first says app will be on gov database, code secure, but then we learn on Amazon and code, well, out of our hands - has this changed?
- why 15 minute minimum? Were virologist or epidemiologists involved in the making of the app and was it their well considered view that 15 minutes is more than sufficient? Or was it a decision by the app developers that any less than 15 minutes would swamp the central storage with data overload?

From my point of view if I'm spending 15 minutes with people, or any time in fact, I'm taking precautions. It's much easier to defend yourself if you know its going to be for extended periods. Much harder if it's random people over shorter periods. Did a contamination hand shake experiment in Microbiology where 20 or more people were infected in less than a minute. Time of 15 minutes or more will be useful, but I think far less useful than less than 15 minutes.

Luckily 'NT Virus Free' (new bumper sticker). Although things can still go pear shape.

Retired on large rural holding. Rarely go out.

My phone is old. My phone is almost always off and I mean 'off' off. My phone works perfectly well on a real cheap plan. Mine is Android 5 not upgradable. It's not compatible with the new whole of Government Services app - this includes Aus Tax Off who I mainly deal with and has been a run around - eWaste is an issue yet government seems to encourage eWaste to uptake their programs. As an aside, went camping with some friends out of mobile range, all with their mobiles still on. Couldn't understand why their batteries were going low so quickly. Seems mobiles waste a lot of energy searching for signal and only settle down on power consumption once they have found a signal. I have a Biolite that can charge phones. So we started charging a phone, but the recharge was real slow. I asked the owner is your phone 'off'. Them 'yes'. Me 'No, I mean off!'. Them 'Oh, you mean 'off' off. Me 'Yes!!'. Phone quickly charged.

My wife is a teacher and would likely be the cause of my end (and not just by virus[biggrin]).

I might join the heard if ScoMo...SlowMo...Dunno...dropped the case against the ABC (and I'm not enamoured of the other main party either, so there's some balance) . Hmm...got trouble with another ABC journalist, how can we determine who they've been associating with - light bulb goes on! And I've worked in Fed government and can definitely say that heads of departments and senior execs can be politically influenced. And whistle blowers are having a harder, harder time...

As I've said great idea but potency probably strangled by time constraint? Pushed out roughly with parameter issues?! Money and effort better spent on testing? In fact chief med officer on tv now saying testing is the best approach.

[workingonit]

Oh, come on guys...flame me! It's been nearly an hour since posting. Have I killed the thread through tedium?

[101RRS]

Oh, come on guys...flame me! It's been nearly an hour since posting. Have I killed the thread through tedium?

The silly old fart regulars who cannot accept an opposing view will be along as soon as they finish their nanna nap - be patient. [thumbsupbig]

[V8Ian]

Huh? I just woke up. [biggrin]

[bob10]

Oh, come on guys...flame me! It's been nearly an hour since posting. Have I killed the thread through tedium?

No. We are just ****ed off your pubs are opening next week. Teachers pets. [bawl]

[DiscoMick]

The ap was used in Singapore, but not many people downloaded it because they don't trust their government.
The 15 mins was to weed out brief contacts and focus on those more likely to have resulted in infection.
If phones are put on airplane mode they don't try to connect, so the battery lasts longer.
It is supposed to work with Android 6.0. My phone is Android 6.2 but the ap isn't compatible.

[workingonit]

No. We are just ****ed off your pubs are opening next week. Teachers pets. [bawl]

Were they closed?[bigsad] I'm still working though my pandemic stock in the fridge...I'll soon have some room for vegetables, milk and bread!

Will be interesting to see the stats on alcohol related crime over this period. My teacher wife says I am not a pet, don't know about the rest.

[vnx205]

Do people realise that the more restrictions are eased, the more we need this app?

One of the reasons health authorities have been able to do a reasonable job of tracing contacts so far is that at the moment most of us have so few contacts. As the number of contacts most of us have increase as the restrictions are eased, the more difficult it becomes to trace all the contacts of positive cases.

The health authorities will have a better chance of notifying people who might have been infected if the app is widely used.

It won't identify every contact, but the health authorities will need all the help they can get if we start mixing with dozens or hundreds of people rather than the limited number we have contact with at present.

I wonder how many of the people complaining loudest about the restrictions are the same people who are refusing to download the app. Logically, the opposite should be the case. Those who want more freedom should be the ones downloading the app. They are the ones whose contacts the health authorities will find most difficult to trace without this app.

[Eevo]

Those who want more freedom should be the ones downloading the app.

so you admit the govt has removed some of our freedoms?

thats why I wont download the app.

[Pickles2]

Do people realise that the more restrictions are eased, the more we need this app?

One of the reasons health authorities have been able to do a reasonable job of tracing contacts so far is that at the moment most of us have so few contacts. As the number of contacts most of us have increase as the restrictions are eased, the more difficult it becomes to trace all the contacts of positive cases.

The health authorities will have a better chance of notifying people who might have been infected if the app is widely used.

It won't identify every contact, but the health authorities will need all the help they can get if we start mixing with dozens or hundreds of people rather than the limited number we have contact with at present.

I wonder how many of the people complaining loudest about the restrictions are the same people who are refusing to download the app. Logically, the opposite should be the case. Those who want more freedom should be the ones downloading the app. They are the ones whose contacts the health authorities will find most difficult to trace without this app.
Well said, yor first line sums it up,....jeez, it ain't rocket science.
Pickles.

[vnx205]

Oh, come on guys...flame me! It's been nearly an hour since posting. Have I killed the thread through tedium?

A lot of the delay was caused by the fact that I had to read your post a number of times trying to find something you had written that justified your "Definitely not" decision.

A few of us have had to select the option closest to our decision even if it wasn't an exact match.

It seems to me that the points you raised justified selecting an option somewhere amongst the bottom three. They seem to be closer the conclusion that your arguments point to.

I don't suppose this satisfies your expectation to be flamed, but it is the best I can manage at the moment. :)

[vnx205]

so you admit the govt has removed some of our freedoms?

thats why I wont download the app.


That has to be one of the least logical posts I've seen lately.

You object to the government restriction of our freedom. At least that is the conclusion I draw from your posts.

Yet you refuse to do something that would allow the government to restore some of those freedoms.

Of course it may be that I have misjudged you. It may be that you enjoy the restrictions and want them to continue. :)

[Eevo]

Yet you refuse to do something that would allow the government to restore some of those freedoms.
sounds like blackmail.



It may be that you enjoy the restrictions and want them to continue. :)



i tend to do my own thing. restrictions or not.

[DeanoH]

............................ Those who want more freedom should be the ones downloading the app. They are the ones whose contacts the health authorities will find most difficult to trace without this app.

I'm right with you on this one, except for one 'minor' issue.

Today I downloaded the app. and actually left our rural property basically for the first time in several weeks. Thought I'd do 'the right thing' even with reservations about the app. Well not so much about the app. but with the global data mining company that has been given the task of storing/managing the data. IMO anyone who thinks that Amazon will not incorporate this data into their global database, should they wish, is totally delusional.[bighmmm] Even so I don't really give a **** as it's a small price to pay for the overall good that the Coronavirus app. offers.

So I downloaded and installed the app. from the link provided by the Australian Government Coronavirus website. My understanding of the app. 'as advertised', is that it gathers Bluetooth info. from nearby also 'app. enabled' mobile phones and stores it for a period of time so that it can be used to contact trace these nearby users in case of infection. No worries here. [bigsmile1]

A minor 'discrepancy' appears to be that the app. gathers Bluetooth data from ALL nearby phones regardless of whether the Coronavirus app. is installed or not ! Again, I don't really give a ****, but why lie about it ?

The 'minor' issue I'm referring to is that 'Location' MUST be enabled for the app. to work, a prerequisite that is definitely NOT mentioned in the Coronavirus app. hype. [bigsad] WTF this has to do with the proximity I may have to another like Coronavirus app. user is beyond me. My understanding is that enabling 'Location' is a phone specific setting not an app. specific setting. ie. 'one in all in'.

I make it a point not to install any app. that requires location info. which is never enabled on my phone. Call me a 'tin hat' or overly paranoid but that's the way it is. It never ceases to amaze me that however benign an app. may appear a request for photo, file and location access often follows. Not for this little black duck, unnecessary data collection is an intrusion I do not tolerate, especially if done by stealth, projection of guilt or for any other reason. Unfortunately this is SOP for sales/marketing and politicians of all stripes, they just can't help themselves, but I'm not playing that game.[bigsad]

Deano :)

[JDNSW]

My understanding is that location needs to be enabled on Android for bluetooth to work. This does not apply to iOS, and is hardly the fault of the developers of the app. I am like you - I never have location turned on. But it is a bit academic, as the app does not work on my phone.

[biggin]

sounds like blackmail.





i tend to do my own thing. restrictions or not.

Your not alone in this Eevo.

If we’re going down this road, why can’t our kids have an app that lets them know when they’re near a paedo or a murderer or a terrorist or a real estate agent. You know, something useful.

[Eevo]

Your not alone in this Eevo.

If we’re going down this road, why can’t our kids have an app that lets them know when they’re near a paedo or a murderer or a terrorist or a real estate agent. You know, something useful.


even real estate agents should have a right to privacy (aas long as their not hurting anyone)

[incisor]

I'm right with you on this one, except for one 'minor' issue.

you do realise your phone signal is constantly tracked anyway ?

and i agree about the dishonesty involved

this government is particularly bereft it appears...

[V8Ian]

I'm visualising all the dark green, bindii looking critters, with ugly, angry faces counting down "14 57 14 58 14 59 CHARGE!". [bigrolf]

[rick130]

I make it a point not to install any app. that requires location info. which is never enabled on my phone.

Deano :)I've always had it turned off too, except with Android the bloody thing is continuously sending packets of data back to Google even with location turned off and that can be used to draw a map of your movements........

[donh54]

I've always had it turned off too, except with Android the bloody thing is continuously sending packets of data back to Google even with location turned off and that can be used to draw a map of your movements........Check your app permissions, you'll find that there are a whole boatload of apps using location, including the Aulro app for Android. (Psst.... is Inc actually a gubmint agent???)

[rick130]

Check your app permissions, you'll find that there are a whole boatload of apps using location, including the Aulro app for Android. (Psst.... is Inc actually a gubmint agent???)Yep, I know, and with some of the permissions I'm going "really,? You need that why??"

As for Inc, hmm....
Can you type a little louder in this direction please? [emoji12][emoji23]

[DiscoMick]

Were they closed?[bigsad] I'm still working though my pandemic stock in the fridge...I'll soon have some room for vegetables, milk and bread!

Will be interesting to see the stats on alcohol related crime over this period. My teacher wife says I am not a pet, don't know about the rest.Can't imagine many pubs bothering to reopen if they are only allowed 10 customers. There would be more staff than patrons.

[DiscoMick]

Yep, I know, and with some of the permissions I'm going "really,? You need that why??"

As for Inc, hmm....
Can you type a little louder in this direction please? [emoji12][emoji23]On my phone there is a setting which can be turned on to warn me any time an ap wants my location, so I can agree or refuse. Have a search under settings, maybe advanced.

[DiscoMick]

My understanding is that location needs to be enabled on Android for bluetooth to work. This does not apply to iOS, and is hardly the fault of the developers of the app. I am like you - I never have location turned on. But it is a bit academic, as the app does not work on my phone.Mine either. Mine has version 6.2 so it should work. Maybe its because I bought it overseas. What do you think is the reason in your case?

[rick130]

On my phone there is a setting which can be turned on to warn me any time an ap wants my location, so I can agree or refuse. Have a search under settings, maybe advanced.Yep, have that activated to, as well as when something uses the camera, etc.

OMG, where's my tin foil hat??!! [emoji50][emoji23][emoji23]

[vnx205]

sounds like blackmail.



I hadn't realised how common this blackmailing problem is.

It seems the authorities are blackmailing me by telling me they won't charge me with murder if I don't kill anyone.

They are also blackmailing my neighbour by telling him that unless he stops accumulating points for speeding offences, he will lose his licence.

The boss is blackmailing me by telling me that if I turn up at the factory and do some work, he will pay me some wages.

The car dealer is blackmailing me into changing the oil in my car sometimes by telling me that if I don't, the engine may be damaged.

My uncle's doctor is blackmailing him by telling him that if he doesn't stop smoking his health will suffer.

It is a worry!

[goingbush]

Heres something to ponder for you people that don't want our gov't 'tracking' you .

How would you feel about the Russians or Chinese knowing where you were any time you had your phone on or any other GPS device for that matter. They do .

GPS satellites are the size of a car , the actual GPS part is about the size of a suitcase ( hmm I wonder what the rest is for) . Why are there 8 Chinese Beidou and 7 Russian Glosnass GPS satellites over my house ? QZSS is Japan, USA is just GPS, Galileo is Europe

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/95099785_2901823959899375_1931041120465190912_o.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_ohc=POtU7IkDmSQAX-Kzbzd&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=be6ae692c0e5691168b126d06c0d4b7a&oe=5EDA4E26


and this is a phone screen capture from a friend of mine in Yukon, Canada

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/94613535_10157365941392934_4391529276189442048_o.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=XAmO_dsQ00sAX-3tGOi&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=cab74aa0d023db89c808feadd23e6e24&oe=5EDC21E4

[Eevo]

It is a worry!

none of those things u listed are blackmail.

none of those things are curtailing a liberty

[Eevo]

Heres something to ponder for you people that don't want our gov't 'tracking' you .

How would you feel about the Russians or Chinese knowing where you were any time you had your phone on or any other GPS device for that matter. They do .

GPS satellites are the size of a car , the actual GPS part is about the size of a suitcase ( hmm I wonder what the rest is for) . Why are there 8 Chinese Beidou and 7 Russian Glosnass GPS satellites over my house ? QZSS is Japan, USA is just GPS, Galileo is Europe




and this is a phone screen capture from a friend of mine in Yukon, Canada




GPS doesnt work that way. its 1 way only.

[goingbush]

GPS doesnt work that way. its 1 way only.

Ahh yes, But how do you know?? ..And what's the rest of the satellite for ?? ....And why are they over Australia ???

[DiscoMick]

Ahh yes, But how do you know?? ..And what's the rest of the satellite for ?? ....And why are they over Australia ???That's easy. They're over Australia so I don't get lost in my car. [emoji16]

[vnx205]

none of those things u listed are blackmail.

none of those things are curtailing a liberty

So it is only blackmail if it involves loss of liberty? Most definitions of blackmail are a little broader than that.

In any case almost all my examples could lead to loss of liberty.

If you are found guilty of murder, your liberty will be severely curtailed, If you lose your licence, your freedom of movement will be restricted, as it will if your engine seizes.

If your smoking lead to emphysema, the resulting shortness of breath will certainly curtail your freedom to move about. :)

[101RRS]

So it is only blackmail if it involves loss of liberty? Most definitions of blackmail are a little broader than that.



No it is blackmail when the authorities say they will not lift restrictions unless xyz% sign up to the app. Lifting restrictions should be based on a miriad of factors not reaching a % with the app.

Yes it is blackmail.

[vnx205]

Have they actually said that or have they just said that it will be useful to have a lot of people using it to make it safer to lift restrictions?

[INter674]

I'm afraid the hated ID card is now you're phone. Plain and simple if you have a phone you have no privacy..even if it's off..its transmitting your data and the authorities can access it...eg police say if they are looking for you or ASIO if they want to. ..and if course Google etc do it everyday on millions of people.

Remember new phone systems are only introduced after the spy agencies get the source codes. That's why they hate encryption software and will get access to decoding eventually...if they have not already.

Funny how our pollies love encryption..but not for us plebs cause according to Dutton we're all crims trying to hide what we're up to😞

The privacy battle was lost years ago.

[vnx205]

I value the little privacy I still have. Like most people I close my dining room curtains at night so that passers-by aren't entertained by watching me eat.

However, I am a bit puzzled about all this resistance to tracking, whether the tracking is real or imagined.

Maybe some people spend a lot more time than I do making contact with their drug dealer, visiting houses of ill-repute, conducting extra-marital affairs, stalking some celebrity, planning terrorist activities, associating with known criminals, or some other illegal activity.

Can someone explain how a normal, boring, insignificant person like me will be disadvantaged if my phone collects some location data that someone else may or may not have access to?

I do understand the general principle of individual freedoms and rights, so I'm hoping for something more helpful than general comments such as, "I don't want the government tracking me".

[101RRS]

Have they actually said that or have they just said that it will be useful to have a lot of people using it to make it safer to lift restrictions?

Yes they have said it. Basically saying load it or else - restrictions will not be lifted.

Do search as you will find statements like "The Government has flagged the number of app downloads (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-14/coronavirus-app-government-wants-australians-to-download/12148210) as a critical factor influencing how quickly those restrictions are lifted".

[101RRS]

However, I am a bit puzzled about all this resistance to tracking, whether the tracking is real or imagined.



Its not only tracking information - its the possible ability of the app to also obtain other information - the meta data breaches by the AFP (were against the law but still happened with no prosecutions) are an example.

Yes Google, Facebook, Apple and others may mine data from your phone and they are happy to use for their own money making purposes but they have shown a reluctance to allow Government authorities (particularly in the US) access to that data even with court orders.

With privacy breaches from these companies you may just end up with unwanted advertising, but with Government's you could end up caught in unwanted stings - just because you were involved with a baddie 3 times removed and did not know it. There are a few recent instances in Aust - meta data, bugs in meetings in Dili, whistle blowers going to gaol.

It happens.

[vnx205]

That is what the headline of that article says. The rest of the article seems less explicit.

In any case, that was about three weeks ago. Has the government recently said that the restrictions won't be lifted unless xx% download it?

They might have said that it needs 40% to be effective. That is not the same as saying they won't lift the restrictions unless 40% download it.

[101RRS]

In any case, that was about three weeks ago. Has the government recently said that the restrictions won't be lifted unless xx% download it?


Hmmm no a couple of days ago by the PM - as reported by the ABC - research it - but yes the requirement was first communicated a couple of weeks back but is still a requirement.

[Eevo]

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/95438704_10219848704701965_7615117680281911296_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=B72LLIhkyx0AX-k3Dai&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=a5c6cd08292f3b9a5bc33b0fd4be7ca8&oe=5EDE0818

[vnx205]

Hmmm no a couple of days ago by the PM - as reported by the ABC - research it - but yes the requirement was first communicated a couple of weeks back but is still a requirement.

I have searched and it seems that headlines suggest that what you say is true. Some articles even imply the same thing.

However, I thought the official government website might report the policy more accurately than the media who seem to delight in sensationalising things. I have seen plenty of reports that could be interpreted as a threat if you were determined to see things that way.

On this site Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Official Australian Government information (https://www.australia.gov.au/?fbclid=IwAR0pIL7FrBWXZPEwi73iMuUJPBG_aZTQRQQQ1_9U W2sK9YGdDWu0n88sMs4) I found statements about how useful the app will be and how important it is for a lot of people to download it. I didn't see any statement about not lifting restrictions unless people download it.

At this stage my feeling is that it has suited some people and some media outlets to paint the government in the worst possible light by implying that there is a threat hanging over our heads.

Regardless of what might or might not have been said by politicians and reported in the media, I doubt that restrictions will remain in place simply because enough people refused to download the app.

On the other hand, I can envisage a situation where restrictions are lifted, cases of infection spike because of the difficulty of tracing contacts without the app, and restrictions have to be maintained or tightened. That is not the same as saying, "No lifting unless you download."

[workingonit]

...I had to read your post a number of times trying to find something you had written that justified your "Definitely not" decision...

I had to do the same thing, and I wrote it![bighmmm]

If the virus was rampant up here I would consider downloading, although I would probably have to buy a new phone for software compatibility, and I would doubt it to be highly useful.

It seems, from previous posts, that contacts of 15 minutes or more would be tested.

It is a pity that the user cannot set the contact limit times - is it open source, hack the software for an alternate version?

By not having a mix of contact times ie 15 minutes, 5 minutes, one minute, 30 seconds etc researchers may be missing the opportunity to find the contact 'sweet spot', if there is one, might be bimondal/trimodal or no particular pattern at all. Again, are we wasting testing resources on long contacts. Trouble is we won't know because there is no flexibility in the system at the moment.

Some viruses require long periods of contact for transmission but are very lethal, and I would think long contact times would be more suitable. The current virus is very easily transmitted/less lethal and a shorter contact time would be better.

[Pickles2]

I cannot believe that a great many people have not yet signed up for the "App". Now that things are "freeing up", this ap will be more & more important in keeping this virus at bay,...and make no mistake, it is still a VERY dangerous virus. As an example, in Vic, during the last 24 hrs we had 10 new infections, EIGHT community based (we don't know the source),..and how many more have those eight infected been in contact with? That is what this ap is all about. . If everyone had the App, every possible person involved would be known & notified immediately. People who don't sign up could carry the virus unknowingly, they could unknowingly infect their loved ones. People waffle about "security"? ....and this is indeed "waffle" when one considers the amount of media /electronic/ social platforms that we all use. People/Relos/friends etc closest to "non signers", will be the people most likely to benefit from one's signing up, and conversely, very likely to be adversely affected by those that don't.
Pickles

[101RRS]

If everyone had the App, every possible person involved would be known & notified immediately. People who don't sign up could carry the virus unknowingly,



Sorry not every possible person involved would be known - only those in contact for more than 15 minutes - just been to the shops and been near a hundred or so people but none for more than 15 minutes - so the app will not help me if any of them are positive.

You say people who don't sign up could carry the virus unknowingly, but so will people who have signed up but have not been near anyone else for more than 15 mins. Can still catch and pass on even with the app.

I respect your right to load the app, try respecting the rights of those who dont agree.

Garry

[DiscoMick]

I'm as suspicious as anyone, but these are the facts, I understand.
It doesn't record your location.
It only records the assigned serial code of other ap users who have been within range of your phone for 15 mins or longer. That record is on your phone, not any database.
You can, if you wish, refuse to provide those records. You can also delete the ap at any time.

[workingonit]

And now for something completely different...well, not really.

For those interested in surveillance and misuse of IT. Plowed through this topic years ago, and not again, so from memory and a bit loose. And maybe things have moved on. Maybe a load of alarmist non-sense. All governments and many private organisations do it, just where does benefit and trust run out?

Summary.

Primarily about laptops circa 2009 onwards, but mobile phones could be made to behave the same I guess.

AMD and Intel CPUs. They contained two processors on the one die. The first processor is what we are all familiar with, runs your O/S, your computer. Second processor monitors the first for bad behaviour. The second processor has its own operating system for security purposes. Windows and virus software cannot detect the second processor or its software.

The second processor can be operated by a systems manager with appropriate authorisation anywhere in the world. Whole networks can be awakened for software updates etc, without firing up screens, keyboards etc. Keystrokes can be monitored, hard drives interrogated without the user knowing.

In the wrong hands the second processor is a big threat. The second processor needs power obviously. Ah, but I have unplugged my laptop. Yes, but you have an on board battery - check. I'm not connected to the internet. Yes, but the second processor, at the time, was using mobile G3 - checkmate.

Important organisations, like US military can have the second processor turned off.

Supposedly NSA budget had reference to funding the development of the second chip and software. Nice back door if you can get it.

Going to post a link here so I can easily find it again in the future.

The Trouble With Intel’s Management Engine | Hackaday (https://hackaday.com/2016/01/22/the-trouble-with-intels-management-engine/)
Do AMD-processors have something like Intel Management Engine? : security (https://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/4ot223/do_amdprocessors_have_something_like_intel/)

[trout1105]

I'm as suspicious as anyone, but these are the facts, I understand.
It doesn't record your location.
It only records the assigned serial code of other ap users who have been within range of your phone for 15 mins or longer. That record is on your phone, not any database.
You can, if you wish, refuse to provide those records. You can also delete the ap at any time.

Maybe you should get a phone that this app will run on instead of supporting something that you haven't downloaded yourself [bigwhistle]

[DiscoMick]

Nah, they're too expensive to buy outright here and I'm not planning any trips back to Burma. Besides, it's running the latest version 6.2. Its not my fault if the government can't fix the bugs in it's ap.

[ramblingboy42]

Do you know that the government knows if you have a mobile phone and whether or not you have downloaded the app?

[DiscoMick]

Probably. Everything that goes through a satellite - which is everything - is recorded anyway.

[incisor]

the latest version of the app on my iphone 6s+ creates havoc with anything bluetooth.

hearing aids software lost it's settings and i had to pair them again today...

they wont pair with the covid app running so had to shut it down...

[Eevo]

i few days late with thsi news?


Strathfield Council will dodge punishement after staff were illegally told COVIDSafe had to be installed on work phones. Meanwhile another council has breached the Biosecurity Act by compelling their staff to download the app.

[bob10]

NRL, no flu jab, no play, no pay.

Queensland slaps NRL stars with 'no jab, no play' ban (https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/rugby-league/2020/05/12/queensland-flu-nrl-ban/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PM%20Extra%20-%2020200512)

[RHS58]

NRL, no flu jab, no play, no pay.

Queensland slaps NRL stars with 'no jab, no play' ban (https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/rugby-league/2020/05/12/queensland-flu-nrl-ban/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PM%20Extra%20-%2020200512)

Ironic, isn’t it.
He won’t have a flu jab, but has many tattoos.
Yes, the flu vaccine has risks, but getting tattoos carries a multitude of health risks also.

[Eevo]

but getting tattoos carries a multitude of health risks also.

as someone without tats, do they?

[incisor]

as someone without tats, do they?

needles, ink, what could possibly go wrong....

[Eevo]

needles, ink, what could possibly go wrong....

as long as their clean. shouldt be that hard.

[JDNSW]

As the current pandemic has demonstrated - it is hard to keep things clean enough to prevent infection; the correct word is "sterile", not "clean". Tattoo practices have improved somewhat since they had the finger pointed at them for AIDS transmission - heard the term "shared needles"? Doesn't only apply to drug injection! But the health aspects of tattos are nowhere near as closely monitored (or worried about) as vaccinations, but they probably should be.

[windsock]

Ironic, isn’t it.
He won’t have a flu jab, but has many tattoos.
Yes, the flu vaccine has risks, but getting tattoos carries a multitude of health risks also.


needles, ink, what could possibly go wrong....

Mental health has been forgotten in all this. With the myriad of different tat genre out there, some youngsters are going to seriously regret their ink in future years. I know of a couple of young'uns that have tried to emulate another but with a tattooist of a very different skill level that shouldn't be allowed anything other than crayons and paper. Nothing short of stupid little (permanent) doodles many of them.

[RHS58]

as long as their clean. shouldt be that hard.

Google it.
I also imagine there’s also lots of tattoo regret resulting from poor spelling, punctuation, etc, not to mention the dilemma of what to do when your girlfriend leaves you after you’ve had her name tattooed onto some part of your anatomy.

Anyway, we’ve digressed from the original topic, and should get back on track.

[ramblingboy42]

19,600 members in total?

only 87 reply to possibly the most pertinent thread at the moment?

wonder what the most popular thread is at the moment...

[bob10]

The app is up and running.

Coronavirus tracing app COVIDSafe now fully functional, Deputy Chief Medical Officer confirms (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-tracing-app-covidsafe-now-fully-functional-deputy-chief-medical-officer-confirms/ar-BB140zxH?ocid=spartandhp)

[Eevo]

Professor Kelly said 5.6 million Australians had now downloaded the COVIDSafe app


only 22% of the population

[Saitch]

The AULRO poll shows 41 definites. If you take the def. nots, prob. nots and no phone numbers, they add to 41.

What does this show? What does it all mean? How can we use these statistics. Do 50% of AULRO pollers make up 22% of the 19,600 members. So many questions.

[trout1105]

19,600 members in total?

only 87 reply to possibly the most pertinent thread at the moment?

wonder what the most popular thread is at the moment...

Like All forums the membership numbers and the numbers of people that regularly post are Very different, 87 different members posting on a relatively new thread IS quite significant.
There is also the "Bulling" factor where members have "Belittled" other members posts that people know will disagree with their posts that will put them off from posting their views/opinions which Will also lower the number of participants in a thread.
Some of the posts in this particular thread have been demeaning and insulting in reply's to members that don't want to download this app and this could also be a factor in the amount of members joining in on this debate/discussion.

This thread IS relevant/important So lets All play Nice and Respect other members views and opinions on this subject without trying to force/coerce our own opinions views down their throat [thumbsupbig]

[SBD4]

Like All forums the membership numbers and the numbers of people that regularly post are Very different, 87 different members posting on a relatively new thread IS quite significant.
There is also the "Bulling" factor where members have "Belittled" other members posts that people know will disagree with their posts that will put them off from posting their views/opinions which Will also lower the number of participants in a thread.
Some of the posts in this particular thread have been demeaning and insulting in reply's to members that don't want to download this app and this could also be a factor in the amount of members joining in on this debate/discussion.

This thread IS relevant/important So lets All play Nice and Respect other members views and opinions on this subject without trying to force/coerce our own opinions views down their throat [thumbsupbig]

I think RB may have been referring to Votes in the poll rather than posts to the thread. I have voted but had not commented until now. So, the antics of some posters should not cause anyone to avoid participating in the poll.

[DiscoMick]

Here is proof that the US Government currently hss the power to force Amazon to hand over data about Australians who have downloaded this ap.
Why didn't the Australian Government choose an Australian data storage company to host this data?7

Questions remain over whether data collected by Covidsafe app could be accessed by US law enforcement

Questions remain over whether data collected by Covidsafe app could be accessed by US law enforcement | Law | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/may/14/questions-remain-over-whether-data-collected-by-covidsafe-app-could-be-accessed-by-us-law-enforcement?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard )

[Eevo]

Why didn't the Australian Government choose an Australian data storage company to host this data?7

at a guess, cause it would of taken longer to stand up.

[Saitch]

at a guess, cause it would of taken longer to stand up.

'Cause', 'Of'! Come on, Eevo, you're better than that...…….I hope.

[Eevo]

'Cause', 'Of'! Come on, Eevo, you're better than that...…….I hope.

doubtful. english isnt my first language.

[Saitch]

doubtful. english isnt my first language.

In that case, I'll just hop off of the subject. [bigsmile1]

[Eevo]

In that case, I'll just hop off of the subject. [bigsmile1]

na. im kidding. just never been good at elglish.

[DiscoMick]

That could be Engalish, from Engaland, as King Alfred called it.

[bob10]

Well, some more on the tracing app. " tracing apps are vital in the fight against the virus, but who decides how they work? " Have to admit, they lost me at' app', but I think more debate is necessary.

Contact tracing apps are vital tools in the fight against coronavirus. But who decides how they work? (https://theconversation.com/contact-tracing-apps-are-vital-tools-in-the-fight-against-coronavirus-but-who-decides-how-they-work-138206?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20 for%20May%2013%202020%20-%201619915544&utm_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20f or%20May%2013%202020%20-%201619915544+CID_901669945cfc1092d2683c133a02d601&utm_source=campaign_monitor&utm_term=Contact%20tracing%20apps%20are%20vital%20 tools%20in%20the%20fight%20against%20coronavirus%2 0But%20who%20decides%20how%20they%20work)

[vnx205]

I wonder if those crusading against the COVIDSafe app have thought things through. They might be disadvantaging themselves by discouraging others from downloading the app.


They will be able to get most of the benefits the app offers as long as enough other people download it.


People without the app might not get early notification of having had contact with a positive case, but if enough other contacts have the app , those without it will still get some benefit.


If most other people have the app and are notified of contact with a positive case, the chances of them continuing to circulate in the community are reduced. So the chances of them infecting others, including those without the app, will be reduced.


So those who don’t download can thank those who do since they still get some benefit.


It is a similar situation to anti-vaxxers. The main reason they are able to get away with not vaccinating their children is because enough others are vaccinated to provide the herd immunity that protects unvaccinated children.


The seventy nine children who died of measles in Samoa last year shows what happens if vaccination levels drop low enough for diseases like measles to gain a foothold in the community.


Perhaps the anti-COVIDSafe people need to hope that enough others download the app to give them the benefits in a manner that is similar to the protection herd immunity offers.

[bob10]

I wonder if those crusading against the COVIDSafe app have thought things through. They might be disadvantaging themselves by discouraging others from downloading the app.


They will be able to get most of the benefits the app offers as long as enough other people download it.


People without the app might not get early notification of having had contact with a positive case, but if enough other contacts have the app , those without it will still get some benefit.


If most other people have the app and are notified of contact with a positive case, the chances of them continuing to circulate in the community are reduced. So the chances of them infecting others, including those without the app, will be reduced.


So those who don’t download can thank those who do since they still get some benefit.


It is a similar situation to anti-vaxxers. The main reason they are able to get away with not vaccinating their children is because enough others are vaccinated to provide the herd immunity that protects unvaccinated children.


The seventy nine children who died of measles in Samoa last year shows what happens if vaccination levels drop low enough for diseases like measles to gain a foothold in the community.


Perhaps the anti-COVIDSafe people need to hope that enough others download the app to give them the benefits in a manner that is similar to the protection herd immunity offers.

Not sure there is a crusade against the App, from what I've read there is concern that not enough is known about how it works, and what safeguards it has against improper use. What that improper use might be, I don't know. If there is not openness and transparency in these types of operations, suspicions are always aroused by a cynical public. I think everyone can see the value of the tracing app, getting it right seems to be taking the government a inordinate amount of time. I'm sure they'll get there.

[DiscoMick]

Our decentralised version of the ap seems better than the UK trial of a centralised data storage ap, which is causing some controversy.

NHS coronavirus advisory board split over ditching government app

NHS coronavirus advisory board split over ditching government app | World news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/nhs-coronavirus-advisory-board-split-over-ditching-government-app?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard)

[Eevo]

#BREAKING: The COVIDSafe app is having technical issues with NSW Health unable to access data in the app.

[DeanoH]

I wonder if those crusading against the COVIDSafe app have thought things through. They might be disadvantaging themselves by discouraging others from downloading the app...................

It is a similar situation to anti-vaxxers. The main reason they are able to get away with not vaccinating their children is because enough others are vaccinated to provide the herd immunity that protects unvaccinated children..........

Perhaps the anti-COVIDSafe people need to hope that enough others download the app to give them the benefits in a manner that is similar to the protection herd immunity offers.



Like the anti-vaxers you mention these crusaders are without doubt complete and utter selfish morons, oxygen thieves of the worst sort. Undoubtedly the same anti 5G, dole bludging, vegan activist professional student anarchists that have been wasting both our taxes for years. (have I missed anyone here ?) [bigsmile1]

The up side is that these **** wits are endangering both themselves and their bloodlines so in the 'grand scheme of things', from a Darwinian viewpoint, by their actions they will hopefully remove their DNA from the overall gene pool. [bigsmile1] A definite benefit for humanity and civilisation going forward, I hate that politically correct phrase that is probably no.1 contender for 'phrase of the year' [bigsad] . I use it only as an expression for the low esteem in which I hold these crusaders [bigsmile1]

The down side of course is that like most self absorbed **** wits they are a danger to all around them and unfortunately the innocent and sensible will suffer as well. But in an environment where it seems increasingly acceptable to sacrifice the Covid 19 susceptible elderly and infirm for The Greater Good (economically) ie. Sweden, Brasil, USA etc. Perhaps this could be seen as a sensible course ? [bigsad] A good treatise on The Greater Good can be found in the award winning 2007 British Movie/Documentary 'Hot Fuzz' [thumbsupbig]

On a more serious note, I have downloaded the CovidSafe app. but unfortunately the Federal Government have mandated that Location must be enabled on the mobile device for it to operate. WTF this has to do with Bluetooth proximity to another Covidsafe user is beyond me. Leaving aside for the moment that the Federal Government has lied in that the installed Covidsafe app. identifies all nearby phones whether Covidsafe installed or not, at no time has the Federal Government mentioned that Location enabling is a mandatory requirement [bigsad]. Perhaps just an 'unintentional' oversight [bigsmile1] , but I choose not to enable Location on my phone, especially by deception or stealth.

It is also unfortunate that by doing so the Federal Government has chosen not to take advantage of my Covidsafe info. should it be needed.

Deano :)

[JDNSW]

......

On a more serious note, I have downloaded the CovidSafe app. but unfortunately the Federal Government have mandated that Location must be enabled on the mobile device for it to operate. WTF this has to do with Bluetooth proximity to another Covidsafe user is beyond me. Leaving aside for the moment that the Federal Government has lied in that the installed Covidsafe app. identifies all nearby phones whether Covidsafe installed or not, at no time has the Federal Government mentioned that Location enabling is a mandatory requirement [bigsad]. Perhaps just an 'unintentional' oversight [bigsmile1] , but I choose not to enable Location on my phone, especially by deception or stealth.

It is also unfortunate that by doing so the Federal Government has chosen not to take advantage of my Covidsafe info. should it be needed.

Deano :)

While I admire your venom towards the government, I'm afraid you have the wrong target. The federal Government has not mandated anything to do with location - this is a function of Android that requires location to be on when bluetooth is. It is not required to be on for iPhones. So blame Alphabet, not Canberra.

[DiscoMick]

Also, while I'm no fan of anti-vaxers, they are not all lefties, as quite a lot are from the right and emphasise individual rights and have a fear of government intervention in their lives.

[Saitch]

While I admire your venom towards the government, I'm afraid you have the wrong target. The federal Government has not mandated anything to do with location - this is a function of Android that requires location to be on when bluetooth is. It is not required to be on for iPhones. So blame Alphabet, not Canberra.

JD, is location required just for the particular app, as my Android 'phone can utilise Bluetooth and I never have location on?

[DeanoH]

While I admire your venom towards the government, I'm afraid you have the wrong target. The federal Government has not mandated anything to do with location - this is a function of Android that requires location to be on when bluetooth is. It is not required to be on for iPhones. So blame Alphabet, not Canberra.

Not so much venom really, more of an overwhelming disappointment. This is the first time I can remember that the states and Commonwealth have worked cooperatively towards a common goal [bigsmile1][bigsad].

I've always had location turned off on my Android 8.1 phone and haven't had problems Bluetoothing music to the car, am I missing something here ?



Mick ............................... Also, while I'm no fan of anti-vaxers, they are not all lefties, as quite a lot are from the right and emphasise individual rights and have a fear of government intervention in their lives.


I don't really care 'whether the cat is black or white', anti vaxers are a danger to all around them and rely on others doing the right thing for their survival. Selfish self absorbed idiots that will hopefully end up being 'hoist by their own petard' leaving the world a better and safer place [bigsmile1]

Deano :)

[JDNSW]

JD, is location required just for the particular app, as my Android 'phone can utilise Bluetooth and I never have location on?

My information was that it is Android, but it may only be some versions. However, in your position I would check whether you have (perhaps inadvertently) told you bluetooth applications that they can turn location on without asking.