Emergency air up instructions

[Bulletman]

Gday All

I know its here but buggered if I can find it. There was a post which had the parts and instructions on fitting the large emerg air up kit.

If someone knows the thread or has a copy could you please point me to it. I am about to make up the kit but just wanted to check a couple of things.

Thanks and Cheers

Bulletman

[gavinwibrow]

Gday All

I know its here but buggered if I can find it. There was a post which had the parts and instructions on fitting the large emerg air up kit.

If someone knows the thread or has a copy could you please point me to it. I am about to make up the kit but just wanted to check a couple of things.

Thanks and Cheers

Bulletman


Do you mean the GOE Emergency kit? If so I have the details for both the small and the bigger versions. If so PM me an email address and I'll send the pdfs/docs

[Bulletman]

PM sent , thanks kindly Gavin

Bulletman

[DieselLSE]

This may help.

[Bulletman]

This may help.

That's perfect. Thanks DieselLSE

Bulletman

[DieselLSE]

That's perfect. Thanks DieselLSE

Bulletman
You're welcome.
I set mine up slightly differently in the rear in that I have the right rear line being accessed via the right rear access compartment, not the left side one. I was able to do this because I removed the oem jack holder. This leaves heaps of space for spares etc.
For seven seat cars that were fitted with the oem towbar, the towbar assembly bracket is fitted in the left rear access compartment. It is worth removing this if you've either replaced the towbar with a Mitch Hitch or just leave it on the car full time anyway. The bracket weighs several tons (only a slight exaggeration!) and takes up valuable space that can be better utilised for spares etc. To remove it, you need to remove the whole panel first. Easy, but a bit daunting if pulling your new Landrover to pieces is a tad beyond your comfort zone.

[DiscoDB]

Given we can no longer buy this kit - does anyone know what the specs and sizes are on the fittings used?

Looks to be an easy kit to source the parts and make yourself.

[DieselLSE]

Given we can no longer buy this kit - does anyone know what the specs and sizes are on the fittings used?

Looks to be an easy kit to source the parts and make yourself.
General specs are in the pdf I attached in post #4 above.

[Bulletman]

Given we can no longer buy this kit - does anyone know what the specs and sizes are on the fittings used?

Looks to be an easy kit to source the parts and make yourself.

I plan to make up a kit in the next week ,just needed to check a few things is why I needed the instructions to check.

The only hard part looks to be getting the correct fitting to suit the front valve block. I have spare front and rear air struts so can get the fittings for those easy, altho you don't access the front strut anyway , so you only replace the rear fitting with a 90 and then just some 6mm high pressure air line plus some quick connectors and shredder valves.

Bulletman

[PerthDisco]

A get out of jail Bodgetastic electrical fix worth watching here may suit some suspension scenarios to keep you moving to next town. Maybe a lot faster than messing with air lines and simply understanding the job of this relay makes testing and fault finding of EAS and compressor problems a lot easier.

Note: the fault code here is a stuck compressor exhaust valve. Not all EAS faults will drop the suspension to bump stops. In my case when the fuse blew and the compressor stopped I had fault lights and Normal Height Only warnings but the air stayed in the system for quite a few days. Presumably because the rest of the system felt it was ok.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/yZiRUg8M8lQ)

Worth carrying these inexpensive fuses and relay for the EAS motor in your spares. The fuse links much harder to find then the normal style small fuses I found out recently. SCA and Repco etc carry 30 and 40 amp but 60 amp not so much.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200509/4ded96f1b2d522e42ff33f247aeeed01.jpg

[101RRS]

Just swap the relays around - just take out a relay from a non critical function and put it the air suspension spot - or just carry a spare [thumbsupbig]

[DiscoDB]

I plan to make up a kit in the next week ,just needed to check a few things is why I needed the instructions to check.

The only hard part looks to be getting the correct fitting to suit the front valve block. I have spare front and rear air struts so can get the fittings for those easy, altho you don't access the front strut anyway , so you only replace the rear fitting with a 90 and then just some 6mm high pressure air line plus some quick connectors and shredder valves.

Bulletman

From the photos it looks like the front valve block fittings are the same size as the rear struts - so I am thinking they are all 1/8” BSPP.

Do post what parts you end up sourcing. I am planning to do the same.

[John_D4]

From the photos it looks like the front valve block fittings are the same size as the rear struts - so I am thinking they are all 1/8” BSPP.

Do post what parts you end up sourcing. I am planning to do the same.

Same. I had fit a rear suspension override for the D2 which used schrader valves. It worked quite well. I’ve never thought about doing similar until I read this list. Thanks guys!

[DiscoDB]

I worked out the GOE kit was using Legris fittings and probably tubing as well. My guess is all sourced through Enzed. Looks like the nickel plated LF3600 (or could use the stainless steel LF3900/3800) series push fit fittings which are a full bore design for no pressure drop and rated at 30 bar.

This seems to match the description in the fitting instructions and it is definitely a Legris logo stamped on the fittings.

Product manual is here: Connection Solutions for Industrial Fluids - Legris - Page 109 (http://www.enzed.com.au/Products/Catalogues/Legris%202010_04/HTML/109/)

LF3600 series starts on page 109. Tubing from page 222.

[INter674]

This thread raises several questions for me.

Is the LR EAS really that unreliable that it warrants bypassing ...how many owners have actually suffered failures and what is the most common cause?

I've seen some comments on this forum e.g. Paul (?) advising of problems with suspension and I'm aware of the LCA issues.

Air bags themselves appear very reliable so I'm guessing the compressor is the main issue causing failures?

[Bulletman]

This thread raises several questions for me.

Is the LR EAS really that unreliable that it warrants bypassing ...how many owners have actually suffered failures and what is the most common cause?

I've seen some comments on this forum e.g. Paul (?) advising of problems with suspension and I'm aware of the LCA issues.

Air bags themselves appear very reliable so I'm guessing the compressor is the main issue causing failures?

I think the system is very robust , altho I have had 1 front airbag get a small nic from something sharp which caused it to leak and need changing. Funnily enough setting that airbag on standard or access height the bag leaked very little, and this mod wouldn't be able to save you in that situation. I know of 1 person who has had to use this system in the rear world , as his pump failed on the way to cape York and his car was on the bump stops, so this enabled him to drive the car . I guess carrying a spare pump ( as I do when I travel remote ) is and option but trying to access and change the pump with the car on the bump stops and on some rough track or in sand may not be possible , so atleast it gives you an option to move to a campsite or a better area and investigate the problem.

I hope to never have to use it to be honest , but with some plans on doing more remote travel in the next few years , its worth having in my eyes for the just in case scenario.

Bulletman

[DiscoDB]

The EAS is probably one of the more temperamental systems on the D3 at least. I have changed out the compressor three times now, have had relay and fuse failures, and continue to see electronic faults which will drop the suspension to its lowered setting.

The airbags themselves seem very robust.

At a minimum I would suggest carrying the relay and fuses as a spare, plus even a compressor rebuild kit if going into a remote area would a good idea, but I do like the idea of having a simple back up to get the car off the bump stops if the system did fail and I was away from home.

[INter674]

Just a thought..is there no central place to plumb in a back up system..eg if the compressor is the main issue why not plumb into the comp outlet?

[DieselLSE]

This thread raises several questions for me.

Is the LR EAS really that unreliable that it warrants bypassing ...how many owners have actually suffered failures and what is the most common cause?

I've seen some comments on this forum e.g. Paul (?) advising of problems with suspension and I'm aware of the LCA issues.

Air bags themselves appear very reliable so I'm guessing the compressor is the main issue causing failures?
For those who take their vehicles to remote locations, it's called preparation. Particularly important if you travel solo.
You carry a spare wheel in preparation of a puncture and some of us also carry tyre repair kits, an alternative jack and perhaps a second spare. Some of us also carry spare parts just in case an important component fails or is damaged. Stuff like brake switch, height sensors, globes etc.
The EAS is a well thought out and well built system. But, despite undertaking preventative maintenance, some of us also prepare for issues like a damaged air line, software fault, compressor fault etc. by fitting a GOE kit. Manually inflating the airbags gets you home and can tolerate an unserviceable airbag as the three other bags will still hold the car up. Mind you, I have no idea what this will do the stability electrics!

There seems to be a great misunderstanding about the LCAs in D4s. They are not faulty or badly designed. The LCA's (in particular the front rear bushes) should be viewed as sacrificial items that give the suspension its amazing travel and ride over virtually any terrain. They are easily checked and easily replaced. Rear bushes should be checked if doing a lot of towing. Not so easily replaced, but not rocket surgery. You can be kind to your LCAs by travelling slowly over obstacles and on rough roads (pretend you're in a leaf sprung Series Landrover) and gently rolling when doing height changes.

[Bulletman]

Just a thought..is there no central place to plumb in a back up system..eg if the compressor is the main issue why not plumb into the comp outlet?

I think the main reason why is a standard tyre compressor will struggle to fully inflate 1 bag at a time , so to feed into the main system you would likely have to carry a different type of pump e.g. high pressure low flow . This system seems to allow for use of an item you or anyone else may be carrying , and won't need to be model specific . Ie a 12v tyre compressor.

Not perfect by any means , but at least it's an option in worse case scenarios.

Bulletman

[PerthDisco]

This thread raises several questions for me.

Is the LR EAS really that unreliable that it warrants bypassing ...how many owners have actually suffered failures and what is the most common cause?

I've seen some comments on this forum e.g. Paul (?) advising of problems with suspension and I'm aware of the LCA issues.

Air bags themselves appear very reliable so I'm guessing the compressor is the main issue causing failures?

Not unreliable at all and problems seem rare but you prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Keep in mind the age of your vehicle and the trip you are planning. Also thank your lucky stars the underside of your car in Australia is not a rusted mess as in the video link above.

I had the compressor fuse and relay problem this year which was simple and cheap to fix in the end. 13 year old compressor with a desiccant change still runs. Would I set off on a long outback trip with it - probably not as its well due for a change. I’d go through a lot of things probably before doing that.

It’s not that expensive to have a spare front and rear height sensors also but if you don’t have the diagnostic tool you are guessing when you are on the side of the road. In my case the code was pretty clear to check the fuse once I could read it.

See the stuck compressor exhaust valve fault code fix here (the problem in the previous video I linked) and some more good explanation on fuses;

YouTube (https://youtu.be/QLfoU265uU4)

[DieselLSE]

Just a thought..is there no central place to plumb in a back up system..eg if the compressor is the main issue why not plumb into the comp outlet?
Not so easy with this generation of EAS, although that's exactly what I did in the LSE. BUT, the secret is to let the EAS system think that it is still the only game in town. That is, don't interfere with it at all.
What I did in the LSE was run a compressor off the motor (not possible in the D4) which pumped filtered (two water traps/filters plus a desiccant filter) into a separate 9 litre air tank which, via a non-return valve, fed into the EAS 9 litre reservoir. The driven compressor was triggered by a pressure switch linked to the primary (separate) reservoir and set at a slightly higher pressure than the EAS reservoir.
When the EAS computer decided that it needed more air, it would send a signal to the EAS reservoir switch to open and as the EAS reservoir pressure dropped a signal would be sent to the EAS compressor to start. But, by then, the open EAS reservoir would be quickly refilled by the primary reservoir, so the EAS compressor would not need to start. If it did start, it would only need to run for a few seconds. As the primary reservoir pressure dropped, the engine driven compressor would fire up and cut out when the primary reservoir was filled. This typically took about 20 seconds or so.
In a D4, the only way I can think of to duplicate this would be to mount a twin ARB compressor somewhere (mine is under the floor where the third row seats used to be) with a switch to be operated by the driver. Run an air line (either direct from the ARB compressor or via the ARB 4 litre air tank or their little distribution tank or even via a second EAS air reservoir installed under the drivers side) through a non-return valve to a T connector spliced into the EAS reservoir input/output air line. Should the EAS compressor fail, you could feed air either automatically or manually into the EAS air reservoir.
BUT. And this is a BIG BUT. You MUST filter water and particulates out of the air before it reaches the EAS reservoir. To do this effectively you would need at least one, preferably two water traps with the second being filled with desiccant. Moisture in the EAS system will destroy it.
I've yet to find a suitable spot for the air filters. They need to be upright, protected and in a spot where they can be drained.

[INter674]

Not so easy with this generation of EAS, although that's exactly what I did in the LSE. BUT, the secret is to let the EAS system think that it is still the only game in town. That is, don't interfere with it at all.
What I did in the LSE was run a compressor off the motor (not possible in the D4) which pumped filtered (two water traps/filters plus a desiccant filter) into a separate 9 litre air tank which, via a non-return valve, fed into the EAS 9 litre reservoir. The driven compressor was triggered by a pressure switch linked to the primary (separate) reservoir and set at a slightly higher pressure than the EAS reservoir.
When the EAS computer decided that it needed more air, it would send a signal to the EAS reservoir switch to open and as the EAS reservoir pressure dropped a signal would be sent to the EAS compressor to start. But, by then, the open EAS reservoir would be quickly refilled by the primary reservoir, so the EAS compressor would not need to start. If it did start, it would only need to run for a few seconds. As the primary reservoir pressure dropped, the engine driven compressor would fire up and cut out when the primary reservoir was filled. This typically took about 20 seconds or so.
In a D4, the only way I can think of to duplicate this would be to mount a twin ARB compressor somewhere (mine is under the floor where the third row seats used to be) with a switch to be operated by the driver. Run an air line (either direct from the ARB compressor or via the ARB 4 litre air tank or their little distribution tank or even via a second EAS air reservoir installed under the drivers side) through a non-return valve to a T connector spliced into the EAS reservoir input/output air line. Should the EAS compressor fail, you could feed air either automatically or manually into the EAS air reservoir.
BUT. And this is a BIG BUT. You MUST filter water and particulates out of the air before it reaches the EAS reservoir. To do this effectively you would need at least one, preferably two water traps with the second being filled with desiccant. Moisture in the EAS system will destroy it.
I've yet to find a suitable spot for the air filters. They need to be upright, protected and in a spot where they can be drained.

Mmm..thats what I was thinking would be a good back up ie a second reservoir with ARB twin pump plus water traps etc...so utilising what many 4wds already have on board.

But then again...my last big trip had some vehicle issues (not mine) that despite being well prepared you simply could not carry enuf spares eg gearbox failure.. cracked TCase..busted heater core...stuffed (new b 4 trip gen) upper ball joints..

Where do you stop🙄

I've seen the value of roadside assist with a Yota carried from near Corryong to Melbourne plus owners accommodated along the way. I bought my top level cover after that☺

[DieselLSE]

[QUOTE=INter674;2997923
Where do you stop🙄
[/QUOTE]
Yeah! It's a value judgement based on your own experience and ability to repair. There are so many variables. If you travel with others, then you only need to prepare for group "survival" and of course you will have a variety of skills and expertise to draw on.
As one who usually goes bush alone or with just one passenger, I think it would be irresponsible of me to not be able to work around minor mechanical and reasonably foreseeable issues. Cracked transfer cases, broken cranks or trees crushing the car are all possible, but hardly foreseeable. But even those can be prepared for by having the equipment, clothing and ability to either walk out (say Vic high country) or stay put and radio or ePIRB for help (remote outback).

[DiscoDB]

Just a thought..is there no central place to plumb in a back up system..eg if the compressor is the main issue why not plumb into the comp outlet?

You actually also need to connect after the control valves - else the system will just fault and not work anyway. You won’t be able to get the valves to open to inflate and work in conjunction with a second compressor connected direct to the EAS compressor outlet.

The GOE emergency air up method looks to be the simplest way to plumb in a back up. Any other method seems to get more and more complicated.

[DiscoDB]

The fittings and tubing needed can also be bought on line via au.rs-online.com. RS Components | Electronic and Electrical Supplies | Australia (https://au.rs-online.com/web/)

Data sheet for the LF3600 series fittings: https://docs.rs-online.com/3cd5/0900766b8137d350.pdf

[PerthDisco]

The GOE emergency air up method looks to be the simplest way to plumb in a back up. Any other method seems to get more and more complicated.

There was a GOE permanently installed version and a light solution to carry and fit in an emergency. I’ve got the latter version never used if need info on that.

[INter674]

You actually also need to connect after the control valves - else the system will just fault and not work anyway. You won’t be able to get the valves to open to inflate and work in conjunction with a second compressor connected direct to the EAS compressor outlet.

The GOE emergency air up method looks to be the simplest way to plumb in a back up. Any other method seems to get more and more complicated.

Fair call..yes I can see the value of a loop whereby you can separate the loop to isolate the valve block side and use the other side of the loop to inflate the bag.

Presumably the quick connectors have valves in them...or not. . cause
on 2nd thoughts deflating the valve block side don't matter and the Schroeder valve takes care of the air bag side..Yes?

[DieselLSE]

You actually also need to connect after the control valves
No. Under no circumstances interfere with the extant system.
If the system has faulted and grounded itself due to valve issues, there's probably not a lot you can do except go to your emergency air up system like the GOE one.
But, if the error code was due to a compressor fault, by clearing the code and bypassing the need for the computer to send a signal to the compressor, no more errors should be detected by the computer. If you were able to keep the EAS reservoir full of air, then whenever the computer needed more air for a bag it would be instantly available and it would not need to send a signal to the compressor for more air.
The EAS computer is ignorant of how air gets into the reservoir. It just doesn't care. If there's 150psi in there and it can direct it to where it needs to go then it is sweet. It doesn't monitor how often the compressor doesn't get used and wonder "how did all that air get in there?"
The issue, though, is in filling the EAS reservoir with filtered dry air.
You would need a twin ARB compressor and an air reservoir the same size as the EAS reservoir. This could be another EAS reservoir installed under the driver's side. The ARB twin compressor is rated at 100 duty cycle, so I believe, and cuts out at 150psi which is spot on for the EAS. The air would need to be filtered before it went to the driver's side reservoir. An air line from the driver's side reservoir to the EAS reservoir via a non-return valve would ensure that the EAS reservoir was always pressurised to 150psi. This would be enough to ensure that, under normal driving, the EAS computer would not need to send a signal to the (faulty) EAS compressor.
Well, that's my theory anyway.
I have the GOE kit and the ARB compressor and I have a second air reservoir but haven't fitted it yet. But I was only planning on using the second reservoir for tyre inflation. But this thread has consolidated in my mind how easy it would be to rig up a primary air supply to the EAS reservoir should the EAS compressor fail.

[Bulletman]

In my situation i had the compressor dryer blow its arse out .160698 if you look in the picture you can see the base split , I checked my records and I installed this compressor new in feb 2017. So just over 3 years old , and this basically rendered my suspension system inoperative, as the compressor would start but run for a few secs and shut off with a code that basically said compressor faulty. Luckily for me it happened at home and I refitted my old spare compressor which I had fully rebuilt and all is good.

So i strip the new compressor to fit another dryer housing and uon removing the contents of the split dryer I see my bottom strainer is quiet badly rusted compared to the top strainer. I know I live in the tropics and we have high humidity in the wet season , but this really showed me why you need to have filtered air.
160697

Another thing I learnt was that removing the old compressor isn't always straight forward, and I am not talking about just the top mounting bolt. I also found my quick release connections on the cap wouldn't release , so in the end I had to cut and join the main air line. I know people take spares for their compressors travelling remote , but unsure if they carry a spare dryer housing , plus some 6mm air line and joiners. , even carrying a spare compressor would have been an issue for me as I couldn't release the airline, even tho I have a lot of experience using these type of fittings.

All in all for me having a back up system is just piece of mind that if I need to I can get the car drivable till I can find a suitable place to start trouble shooting and look at repairing the system back to normal.

Bulletman

[Bulletman]

No. Under no circumstances interfere with the extant system.
If the system has faulted and grounded itself due to valve issues, there's probably not a lot you can do except go to your emergency air up system like the GOE one.
But, if the error code was due to a compressor fault, by clearing the code and bypassing the need for the computer to send a signal to the compressor, no more errors should be detected by the computer. If you were able to keep the EAS reservoir full of air, then whenever the computer needed more air for a bag it would be instantly available and it would not need to send a signal to the compressor for more air.
The EAS computer is ignorant of how air gets into the reservoir. It just doesn't care. If there's 150psi in there and it can direct it to where it needs to go then it is sweet. It doesn't monitor how often the compressor doesn't get used and wonder "how did all that air get in there?"
The issue, though, is in filling the EAS reservoir with filtered dry air.
You would need a twin ARB compressor and an air reservoir the same size as the EAS reservoir. This could be another EAS reservoir installed under the driver's side. The ARB twin compressor is rated at 100 duty cycle, so I believe, and cuts out at 150psi which is spot on for the EAS. The air would need to be filtered before it went to the driver's side reservoir. An air line from the driver's side reservoir to the EAS reservoir via a non-return valve would ensure that the EAS reservoir was always pressurised to 150psi. This would be enough to ensure that, under normal driving, the EAS computer would not need to send a signal to the (faulty) EAS compressor.
Well, that's my theory anyway.
I have the GOE kit and the ARB compressor and I have a second air reservoir but haven't fitted it yet. But I was only planning on using the second reservoir for tyre inflation. But this thread has consolidated in my mind how easy it would be to rig up a primary air supply to the EAS reservoir should the EAS compressor fail.

Could you find a OEM compressor and fit it to the spare system , that way it would have filtered air , and a pump that will build pressure a lot easier , altho I haven't looked to see if it could fit , but if you are going to the extent you speak of it could be an option. Prolly need to see if it can be wired to just be on off , instead of controlled by the ECU .

just a thought

Bulletman

[scarry]

This thread raises several questions for me.

Is the LR EAS really that unreliable that it warrants bypassing ...how many owners have actually suffered failures and what is the most common cause?

I've seen some comments on this forum e.g. Paul (?) advising of problems with suspension and I'm aware of the LCA issues.

Air bags themselves appear very reliable so I'm guessing the compressor is the main issue causing failures?

I have had both front struts replaced,and one corner valve,thats over 8 yrs of owning the vehicle from new,and 85 000K's,which is low K's.

It is actually slowly losing height now,but not badly,and seems like an intermittent fault,such as a corner valve,but i am leaving it ATM,as its not bad.

These were slow leaks,not show stoppers,but they could have been if i had not got them sorted,as the air compresser would probably have worn itself out.

I think many systems probably have slow leaks but the owners do not realise.Our vehicle is not used a lot,as we have company vehicles,so it may sit for a couple of weeks,so its easy to see if it is sinking,where if its a daily driver,it probably will not be noticed.
Until the air compresser eventually fails.

We have done a heap of remote area trips,mainly Desert trips,and i have never really worried about the EAS system failing.I have a GAP tool,which can manually pump up the system,and then removing the EAS fuse will keep it up.This will help if the vehicle lowers to its bump stops due to a system fault such as a height sensor.But obviously this won't help if there is a large leak in the system,but the chances of that are probably remote.

The system does run at over 200PSI,so a very small leak will cause an issue.

There was someone on here who fitted the GEO kit,and then one of the fittings failed,or broke,or came undone,and caused an issue,on a remote area trip.

For me,i would prefer to leave the vehicle un modified,and take the Gap tool,there are other more important things to worry about while travelling.[biggrin]

[DieselLSE]

Could you find a OEM compressor and fit it to the spare system , that way it would have filtered air , and a pump that will build pressure a lot easier , altho I haven't looked to see if it could fit , but if you are going to the extent you speak of it could be an option. Prolly need to see if it can be wired to just be on off , instead of controlled by the ECU .

just a thought

Bulletman
I can't see any point. The ARB twin compressor is designed to pump up four large tyres from 18psi to 40psi or thereabouts. If used carefully, it could easily cope with filling a 9 litre air reservoir up to 150psi and keeping it topped up. You'd get away with a smaller reservoir but I don't know where you would fit it. There's a spot for a second EAS reservoir under the driver's side which is otherwise vacant. A new tank is about $200 but you'd find a used one for less than that.
The EAS does not go through an enormous volume of air once the EAS reservoir is filled. And unlike the Classic and P38 first gen system, it seems to leak little if any air through the valving system.
BTW, the EAS filtering system is through a desiccant canister that dries the air on input to the compressor and air tank. But it needs to be purged and so all expelled air is sent back through it. So even though you could connect a second EAS compressor (and integrated canister) into your back up system, the canister would not be purged by expelled air.

[DieselLSE]

Scarry's comment that the system runs above 200psi had me scurrying for the manual. He's right of course. The nominal pressure is 16.8 bar (244psi).
I had the idea that the system actually ran lower than the first gen EAS. Therefore, my idea of using a primary tank set to 150psi is completely blown out of the water.
To inflate a tank to that pressure would need a much more powerful compressor than the ARB twin tank model. So Bulletman's suggestion of using an OEM one makes perfect sense. It could be easily set up to be operated manually and could be housed in the rear right storage area with a bit of clever engineering. If ever I get my hands on a used one that I could rebuild, I'll look into that.
In the meantime, fitting an emergency kit (and if fitted correctly will in no way fail or interfere with the EAS) and using a decent compressor to inflate each air bag would be my recommendation for remote off road travel.

[PerthDisco]

In my situation i had the compressor dryer blow its arse out .160698 if you look in the picture you can see the base split , I checked my records and I installed this compressor new in feb 2017. So just over 3 years old , and this basically rendered my suspension system inoperative, as the compressor would start but run for a few secs and shut off with a code that basically said compressor faulty. Luckily for me it happened at home and I refitted my old spare compressor which I had fully rebuilt and all is good.

So i strip the new compressor to fit another dryer housing and uon removing the contents of the split dryer I see my bottom strainer is quiet badly rusted compared to the top strainer. I know I live in the tropics and we have high humidity in the wet season , but this really showed me why you need to have filtered air.
160697

Another thing I learnt was that removing the old compressor isn't always straight forward, and I am not talking about just the top mounting bolt. I also found my quick release connections on the cap wouldn't release , so in the end I had to cut and join the main air line. I know people take spares for their compressors travelling remote , but unsure if they carry a spare dryer housing , plus some 6mm air line and joiners. , even carrying a spare compressor would have been an issue for me as I couldn't release the airline, even tho I have a lot of experience using these type of fittings.

All in all for me having a back up system is just piece of mind that if I need to I can get the car drivable till I can find a suitable place to start trouble shooting and look at repairing the system back to normal.

Bulletman

Did the rusting disc swell just enough to split the canister or weaken it just enough to crack under pressure?

Drown those quick connectors in WD40 prior to removing and like many connectors pushing the male side in while releasing the clasp makes a huge difference.

[Bulletman]

Did the rusting disc swell just enough to split the canister or weaken it just enough to crack under pressure?

Drown those quick connectors in WD40 prior to removing and like many connectors pushing the male side in while releasing the clasp makes a huge difference.

I don't think the rusting disc did swell at all , but seeing it was right where the split happened and it seems to be a very rare place to split from what I have read both on here and the UK site , then I can only assume its related.

I did soak them with heaps of WD40 , tried everything I could think of to release the fitting , needle nose pliers, circlip pliers , a veriety of different things, 1 came out easy , the other wouldn't budge, even after removing the compressor I couldn't release it after 24hrs soaked in WD40. I now have a coulpe of short lengths of hose and some 6mm quick connects that live in my glovebox , plus a couple of spares with my spare compressor.

Bulletman

[scarry]

Scarry's comment that the system runs above 200psi had me scurrying for the manual. He's right of course. The nominal pressure is 16.8 bar (244psi).
I had the idea that the system actually ran lower than the first gen EAS. Therefore, my idea of using a primary tank set to 150psi is completely blown out of the water.
To inflate a tank to that pressure would need a much more powerful compressor than the ARB twin tank model. So Bulletman's suggestion of using an OEM one makes perfect sense. It could be easily set up to be operated manually and could be housed in the rear right storage area with a bit of clever engineering. If ever I get my hands on a used one that I could rebuild, I'll look into that.
In the meantime, fitting an emergency kit (and if fitted correctly will in no way fail or interfere with the EAS) and using a decent compressor to inflate each air bag would be my recommendation for remote off road travel.

Murphy will always cause some kind of issue,even if you try your best,you will still have to plumb into the existing system somewhere.If the valves can be opened with the GAP tool,plumbed into one main line would suffice,that is if there was an EAS faut,and the compresser was shagged.That would cover most issues,apart from a huge leak somewhere.

Thinking out of the square,a bottle of nitrogen or CO2 would do the trick,with the correct regulater.Alloy bottles come pretty small these days,and they are not that heavy,but i have no idea what sort of volume would be needed.

Or a high pressure 12V compresser,but one that pumps the sort of pressure needed maybe pretty expensive.The OEM one is probably the go.Its actually pretty compact as well.

Preparation is also key,before travelling,i go over everything on the vehicle,including following all the EAS lines to make sure they are not chafing on something,same as coolant hoses,electrical wiring,fuel lines,etc,etc.

Over the years doing numerous trips,we have never had an issue with our vehicle.But have helped many others,and its often the modifications to the vehicles that has caused the issues,together with bad or no real vehicle preparation.

[DiscoDB]

There was a GOE permanently installed version and a light solution to carry and fit in an emergency. I’ve got the latter version never used if need info on that.

The light solution if I recall correctly was to allow cutting into the existing lines and adding a shrader valve - not a bad basic emergency kit to have for something that hopefully you will never use.

[PerthDisco]

More fun with air pumps and hoses

YouTube (https://youtu.be/7gtU8P9uux4)

YouTube (https://youtu.be/NA-QIX1d5yA)

[INter674]

Ha ha...he's a total nutter😃

[Bulletman]

More fun with air pumps and hoses

YouTube (https://youtu.be/7gtU8P9uux4)

YouTube (https://youtu.be/NA-QIX1d5yA)

I am not surprised he couldn't hear the air leaking with that pump rattling away like it was . Would have heard it straight away if he had taken the time and fitted it properly.

Great video's tho.

Bulletman

[PerthDisco]

The light solution if I recall correctly was to allow cutting into the existing lines and adding a shrader valve - not a bad basic emergency kit to have for something that hopefully you will never use.

Yes you carry it and install only when you need it only but hopefully with some of these diagnostic skills and Bodgetastic fixes you might find another way also.

[DiscoDB]

The IID Tool also helps for when you have an electronic glitch faulting the system which is locking out the control switches as you can re-enable the EAS and force a restart of the compressor. Assuming no leaks this can get the vehicle back off the bump stops.

It is a pity when the system faults the programming can drop the suspension as the safe mode, rather than just hold the last position.

[PerthDisco]

It is a pity when the system faults the programming can drop the suspension as the safe mode, rather than just hold the last position.

Some do some don’t. For practice simulate what happened to me by pulling out the yellow 60a fuse to stop the compressor. You’ll get EAS fault lights and Normal Height Only and No Special TR Modes but it trucks along ok at normal height. After a few days it was getting a bit saggy.

[dirvine]

I have a VLAIR 100% duty cycle compressor and the GOE EAS KIt. When I finished installing I tested the system out. To inflate the airbags successfully I found it better to raise the car up on a jack then pump up the bag with no load on it with the compressor. That way I gained about an extra 1" of height, over just trying to pump up the bag with car sitting on the air bag being filled. Out in the bush or on soft sand that 1" of extra height might be an advantage. Also at the last Wombat Muster, Mick did an air line on his D4 going over a big bump fast, which caused his car to go to bump stop and having to have his van and car flat bedded out. Had he had the GOE full EAS system installed he could have driven home and got the split pipe replaced at a later stage.

[101RRS]

I am glad you mentioned that as I guess non users would not be aware that a standard tyre type air compressor can only get the airbags up to a level about or just below onroad height (obviously might be a little different depending on temps and compressor) but the point is that you do not get up to full height as the air compressor cannot get it up.

By jacking up the car and putting as much air in as you can get, the weight of the car when lowered puts just a little bit more pressure in the bags so a bit more height (1").

Garry

[John_D4]

When I had the D2 I spliced one of these fittings into the airbag filing line after the valve block. Then I’d just pull the SLS fuse from under the bonnet.

Is there any reason why this same method wouldn’t work for the D4 also (cut the air bag inlet hose and fit this same fitting)?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200512/72e7921c47b80e597bdbad0ee31f3644.jpg

[dirvine]

When I had the D2 I spliced one of these fittings into the airbag filing line after the valve block. Then I’d just pull the SLS fuse from under the bonnet.

Is there any reason why this same method wouldn’t work for the D4 also (cut the air bag inlet hose and fit this same fitting)?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200512/72e7921c47b80e597bdbad0ee31f3644.jpg
Yes it would probably work hust depends where youplace it on the air line for easy access.

[Pome pilot]

No. Under no circumstances interfere with the extant system.
If the system has faulted and grounded itself due to valve issues, there's probably not a lot you can do except go to your emergency air up system like the GOE one.
But, if the error code was due to a compressor fault, by clearing the code and bypassing the need for the computer to send a signal to the compressor, no more errors should be detected by the computer. If you were able to keep the EAS reservoir full of air, then whenever the computer needed more air for a bag it would be instantly available and it would not need to send a signal to the compressor for more air.
The EAS computer is ignorant of how air gets into the reservoir. It just doesn't care. If there's 150psi in there and it can direct it to where it needs to go then it is sweet. It doesn't monitor how often the compressor doesn't get used and wonder "how did all that air get in there?"
The issue, though, is in filling the EAS reservoir with filtered dry air.
You would need a twin ARB compressor and an air reservoir the same size as the EAS reservoir. This could be another EAS reservoir installed under the driver's side. The ARB twin compressor is rated at 100 duty cycle, so I believe, and cuts out at 150psi which is spot on for the EAS. The air would need to be filtered before it went to the driver's side reservoir. An air line from the driver's side reservoir to the EAS reservoir via a non-return valve would ensure that the EAS reservoir was always pressurised to 150psi. This would be enough to ensure that, under normal driving, the EAS computer would not need to send a signal to the (faulty) EAS compressor.
Well, that's my theory anyway.
I have the GOE kit and the ARB compressor and I have a second air reservoir but haven't fitted it yet. But I was only planning on using the second reservoir for tyre inflation. But this thread has consolidated in my mind how easy it would be to rig up a primary air supply to the EAS reservoir should the EAS compressor fail.


Having had an EAS issue 2 years ago on a Cape trip and thinking I would be fine as I had the full Emergency Air Up kit from GOE. Your post is the first in this thread that mentions what I found to my annoyance, you need a 150psi compressor, my ARB non twin chamber didn't do anything for me. I still haven't got round purchasing a suitable upgrade, was considering a Bushranger Airmax 3.
Q. Have you actually proved the system with your twin ARB?

If you have a GAP tool or similar, you may find as I did (provided the cars own compressor still works) that you can just lift each corner one at a time until you have the desired height and then put the car in Build mode so that everything is locked at that height until you reach civilisation. (fortunately for me I was given this advice over the phone by a very knowledgeable chap - you know who you are if you are reading this)

[DieselLSE]

Q. Have you actually proved the system with your twin ARB?
No. But I am confident that 150psi will be enough to lift each corner in turn to a usable height, even if I have to jack up each corner in turn.
BUT, the point I made in my post about keeping the air reservoir topped up to 150psi is INCORRECT. The air reservoir is kept pressurised to about 244psi. This is way above typical 12v compressors, including the ARB twin. For my system to work as I described you would need another compressor similar to the OEM one.



If you have a GAP tool or similar, you may find as I did (provided the cars own compressor still works) that you can just lift each corner one at a time until you have the desired height and then put the car in Build mode so that everything is locked at that height until you reach civilisation. (fortunately for me I was given this advice over the phone by a very knowledgeable chap - you know who you are if you are reading this)

What a clever idea. I wouldn't have thought of using Build mode.

[John_D4]

100psi would probably be enough to lift 1 bag at a time. I used about 60psi to lift each rear air bag of the D2. I’d imagine that there’s so much air in the system so that there’s no lag when the car needs to lift. Example: we put 400kg off tiles in the back and the car lifted in 1/2 a second. Otherwise the compressor would have had to struggle pumping it up as it would in the D2 non air tank system

[DiscoDB]

I note that Gordon’s instructions stated a 120 psi compressor should be enough to raise one corner at a time back to normal height. Just might take some time.

[dirvine]

My VLAIR 380 compressor is rated to 200PSI at 55% duty or 100% duty at 100PSI. On the weekend I decided to do some testing. I used the car compressor and measured the height of wheel arches (only did front) at off road height. Then connect the VLAIR compressor, with tank and after 1.50 minute it had 185PSI in the line. After 3 mins it still had 190psi so not sure if it can really pump 200psi or my gauge is inaccurate. When I lowered the car with weight on the wheels. the car was 1.2cms below off road height. I am happy with that and I am sure it would get me out of trouble. I think VLAIR compressors are great as long as they are plumbed properly. I used a tank and switched off the over pressure bleed valve.

[101RRS]

I dont have the EAS kit and may get one in the future - for a compressor to use with it I will just get a cheap ebay Hitachi knock off from ebay and use it to inflate each airbag - probably with a suitable tank - afterall with a correctly maintained system it is not going to get much use.

Easy Peasy [thumbsupbig]

[Disco4TT3]

Did anyone figure out what the part numbers are for the GOE bits from Enzed?



4
Quick interconnects
LF3606


4
Front/Rear Air Connects
LF3609


2
Rear Air Adaptor
LF3699


2
Front Air Adaptor
LF3614



The above are just my guesses based on the blurry catalogue pics..

There seem to be different sizes too:

161086

[INter674]

This has been mentioned b 4 .. I think but I'd like to see an emergency system that utilises a pressurised canister...like some tyre repair systems provided by manufacturers..that plugs in and inflates the bag or bags.

Not sure if canisters of eg dry air are available tho..anyone know 😞

[Tombie]

This has been mentioned b 4 .. I think but I'd like to see an emergency system that utilises a pressurised canister...like some tyre repair systems provided by manufacturers..that plugs in and inflates the bag or bags.

Not sure if canisters of eg dry air are available tho..anyone know [emoji20]

CO2 bottle and reg will do the trick

[John_D4]

A small dive tank might make it cheaper than co2

[DiscoDB]

Did anyone figure out what the part numbers are for the GOE bits from Enzed?



4
Quick interconnects
LF3606


4
Front/Rear Air Connects
LF3609


2
Rear Air Adaptor
LF3699


2
Front Air Adaptor
LF3614



The above are just my guesses based on the blurry catalogue pics..

There seem to be different sizes too:

161086

I could be totally wrong here.....

I would have thought the front and rear air connectors (which go into the rear airbags and front valve block and look to be same) are the 3699 fitting as I believe you need a BSPP (Parallel) connector. Most likely the 3699 06 10 to connect a 6mm OD hose to the 1/8th BSPP thread. The 3609 is for a tapered thread (BSPT).

As the removed air line has a compression fitting, the adaptors (to connect to the hose extension) are then using a brass compression fitting combined with the push fit fittings. The brass fitting accepts the 1/8th BSPP male compression fitting at one end, and then the other end needs to match the push fit adaptor used. An adaptor that accepts the male compression fitting nut at one end and push fit at the other would eliminate the brass fitting - but not sure if you can get this.

Of course this is all just to reuse all of the existing fittings making it easy to remove and revert back later.

[scarry]

CO2 bottle and reg will do the trick

Or small nitrogen bottle,but with both the type of regulater is very important so there is at least 100 PSI available,actually 150 to 200 would be a lot better.

[Bulletman]

Aren't we getting away from the remote travel concept of using items you will already have ... ie a tyre compressor. If you are going to start carrying bottles and tanks may as well take a complete suspension system ... and a trailer for all the other parts and tools.

I hope to get onto this in the next week or so , my mate does alot of work on hinaughtics and he has been away and was run things past him incase he has a different idea or knows of better components

Bulletman

[dirvine]

Just to make myself clear, I dont usually take a tank with me, as i can usually guess how much air I have in my tyres. When it came to pumping up air bags I was not sure, so I connected the compressor via a tank I have at home which runs my rattle guns, spray paint etc. I use my VLAiR compressor for this as well. Now I know that the on board compressor pumps in excess of 200psi I wont bother with the tank. It was only used for "insurance" purposes.

[INter674]

Aren't we getting away from the remote travel concept of using items you will already have ... ie a tyre compressor. If you are going to start carrying bottles and tanks may as well take a complete suspension system ... and a trailer for all the other parts and tools.

I hope to get onto this in the next week or so , my mate does alot of work on hinaughtics and he has been away and was run things past him incase he has a different idea or knows of better components

Bulletman

Yes..and no..looks like using an on board comp might be a struggle and possibly quite slow to get you out of trouble. We carry extinguishers so I dont think another like container is a big ask to carry esp if it does the job in seconds rather than hours☺

Anywho...just a thought...

[101RRS]

Yes..and no..looks like using an on board comp might be a struggle and possibly quite slow to get you out of trouble. We carry extinguishers so I dont think another like container is a big ask to carry esp if it does the job in seconds rather than hours☺

Anywho...just a thought...

How many fire extinguishers worth of air are you going to have to carry to get all four airbags up to off road height? I would suggest more than one.

Garry

[INter674]

How many fire extinguishers worth of air are you going to have to carry to get all four airbags up to off road height? I would suggest more than one.

Garry

Not sure..just thinking out aloud really..but there was just enuf air in one old ext to inflate a tyre on our old D1 - fitted with an AC air pump that had failed but luckily the tank was full at the time. I'd imagine a CO2 gas bottle would have far more in it than an old copper f ext pumped up to say 160psi. I believe car makers are supplying a gas/sealant bottle in place of a whole tyre...so that device must have a reasonable pressure/volume within?

Anyhow...I'll watch this thread with interest to see how the install goes.

[Disco4TT3]

I could be totally wrong here.....

I would have thought the front and rear air connectors (which go into the rear airbags and front valve block and look to be same) are the 3699 fitting as I believe you need a BSPP (Parallel) connector. Most likely the 3699 06 10 to connect a 6mm OD hose to the 1/8th BSPP thread. The 3609 is for a tapered thread (BSPT).

Ah yes, I think you're right about these connectors - thanks!


As the removed air line has a compression fitting, the adaptors (to connect to the hose extension) are then using a brass compression fitting combined with the push fit fittings. The brass fitting accepts the 1/8th BSPP male compression fitting at one end, and then the other end needs to match the push fit adaptor used. An adaptor that accepts the male compression fitting nut at one end and push fit at the other would eliminate the brass fitting - but not sure if you can get this.

Of course this is all just to reuse all of the existing fittings making it easy to remove and revert back later.

Yeah I'd like it to be removable & easily replaceable if possible. I've reread the above a few times and think my novice head follows :0 So the existing LR airline ends have a male 1/8" BSPP connector and we need to convert it to a push fit end for the extension hose.

So do you think the 3636 06 10 will do the job?

161138

Although in the GOE doc, a right angle adaptor is used for the rear. Not sure if this is required due to the available space or just the angle the line will go once rerouted. But I can't seem to find a matching product in the catalogue.

And then the 3699 06 10 which has male 1/8" BSPP would screw into the strut/valve block and push fit to the hose?

161139

It will be interesting to test this out with my single piston arb. Quite likely it won't work as has been mentioned or at least without jacking up first. But hey, I'd like to try myself! Not keen on carrying extra canisters.

[scarry]

I used a brass union, 1/8 BSP tapered thread to 1/4 flare,and a 2M 1/4 flare flexible line to pressure test an airbag.
The fitting can be angled or straight.
Available at any good Refrigeration wholesaler,Actrol/Reece,Kirby,etc.

[DiscoDB]

Just for confusion - I have read on a few other forums including Disco3.co.uk that the fitting used on the air bags and valve blocks is a Voss 203 quick connect fitting and the thread is M10x1.

LR definitely state it is a Voss fitting and they use 6mm pipe, and Voss only make metric fittings in this type.

It is only on this forum have people been stating it is 1/8th BSPP - which I have also repeated.

Funny how the imperial locations think it is metric and we think it is imperial.

The good news is the Voss fitting once assembled should be self sealing - so should be able to be refitted to a simple union with the right thread size. The seal is formed during the initial installation.

However - in the UK people have been replacing the original LR Voss fitting with a push fit fitting at both the air bag and valve blocks with this fitting:

6mm x M10x1 Metric Thread 80 BAR HP Brass Push Fit Straight Stud Fitting (https://www.advancedfluidsolutions.co.uk/6mm-x-m10x1-metric-thread-80-bar-hp-brass-push-fit-straight-stud-fitting-2875-p.asp)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Help! Suspension Problem (https://disco3.co.uk/forum/help-suspension-problem-188069.html?highlight=Voss)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Voss connectors (https://disco3.co.uk/forum/voss-connectors-186249.html?highlight=Voss)

[Disco4TT3]

Curious.

I had a quick search and found these:

Land Rover Discovery 4 / LR4 2010-'16 VOSS Suspension Air Line Connector Fitting | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Discovery-4-LR4-2010-16-VOSS-Suspension-Air-Line-Connector-Fitting/202967823554?hash=item2f41d334c2:g:Q4AAAOSwECNdL2w c)

But your find is much cheaper. They don't seem to sell a female one tho, so would have to cut the existing ends off.

[DiscoDB]

The Voss fittings can be disassembled once removed, and then just need to clean up the pipe so it seals again on the push fit fitting.

EAS Front Valve Block Disassembly - Land Rover Forums - Land Rover Enthusiast Forum (https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr3-28/eas-front-valve-block-disassembly-75141/)

Edit: but not suggesting to do this if don’t need to.....the original point was to clarify the fitting size needed.

[Disco4TT3]

The Voss fittings can be disassembled once removed, and then just need to clean up the pipe so it seals again on the push fit fitting.

Aah interesting. So I wonder if the existing ones could be disassembled, plug existing line into a tube connector > tube > tube connector (loop intercept point) > tube > existing VOSS > back to strut/valve block. That would reduce the number of bits required.

If only we had a spare airline to test with.. anyone?

[Disco4TT3]

Edit: but not suggesting to do this if don’t need to.....the original point was to clarify the fitting size needed.

Yeah after reading how difficult they are to pull apart, sounds like replacing them would be easier! Swapping to push fits all round is a last resort. I'll keep hunting for a female adaptor.

[Disco4TT3]

So close!

Female Straight Connector Push Fit Fitting (https://www.valvesonline.com.au/female-straight-connector-push-fit)

They have M5 and then go imperial.

[Disco4TT3]

This might be it:

6mm Tube, M10x1 Thread Male Straight - Brass Push in Fitting (https://www.pneuflexpneumatic.com/6mm-tubing-to-m10-thread-male-straight-brass-push-in-fitting.html)

and the elusive:

6mm Tube to M10x1 Thread Female Elbow - Brass Push in Fitting (https://www.pneuflexpneumatic.com/6mm-tubing-to-m10-thread-female-elbow-brass-push-in-fitting.html)

[John_D4]

All this still makes me wonder of its easier to plumb in a tap and schrader valve into the pipe that goes into the air bag. Leave it in place and turn the tap and pump up each bag individually using the air compressor if you have an airbag problem. Then just pull the EAS fuse. Maybe in just oversimplifying things but u really still can’t see why it wouldn’t work.

[Disco4TT3]

I like the idea of taps with permanent schrader valves mounted somewhere safe & secure. But you still have to plumb it in and that's the bit I'd like to do without modifying the existing connections, if possible.

Emails sent to some suppliers. Let's see what they come back with.

[John_D4]

I like the idea of taps with permanent schrader valves mounted somewhere safe & secure. But you still have to plumb it in and that's the bit I'd like to do without modifying the existing connections, if possible.

Emails sent to some suppliers. Let's see what they come back with.

Would it be possible to unscrew the original pipe from the valve block and screw a tap and valve into there then just screw the original fitting into the back of the new fitting?

[rapserv]

Just a thought..is there no central place to plumb in a back up system..eg if the compressor is the main issue why not plumb into the comp outlet?

that's what I'd be looking for!!

[Disco4TT3]

Would it be possible to unscrew the original pipe from the valve block and screw a tap and valve into there then just screw the original fitting into the back of the new fitting?

That's essentially the idea. Problem is trying to find compatible adaptors. Without having a spare line/valve to test with, we're speculating what the threads are. There was earlier discussion about them being 1/8" BSPP, but on the UK forum and the air line repair products found on eBay suggest they're M10/1, so I've been trying to find adaptors matching this atm.

The ones I posted earlier seem like the right ones, female M10/1 > 6mm push fit, to tap into the existing airline and male M10/1 to push fit, to tap into the strut/valve block.

I just read over the GOE doc again and it definitely states they're BSPP.

"For each rear air*bag: the Land Rover BSPP air*connector at the top of the air*spring..."
"For the front valve*block: the BSPP air*connector for each side..."

I think I'll order one to test fit on the front block.

[Disco4TT3]

that's what I'd be looking for!!

I think the issues stated by others earlier is that a tyre compressor is not powerful enough to pump all struts at once and in the event of a suspension failure, the valve blocks will prevent manual air up as they're between compressor/tank and struts.

[DiscoDB]

According to the LR D3 manual, you are not meant to reuse the Voss fittings and should replace each time you disconnect. So if replacing, just convert all to push fit.

Then you have almost unlimited options for how to plumb up the emergency set up - and all without cutting into any existing piping.

For connecting to the existing line - once the Voss fitting is removed from the pipe, you could just use a push fit to push fit 6mm pipe coupler which can be either straight or elbows depending on where the new piping is being routed.

So use the LF3699 fitting for the air bags and air valves (right angle to change direction for the extension pipe), and then either the LF3602 or LF3606 6mm pipe to pipe couplers depending on if you need a change in direction or not as per the GOE instructions.

I know the GOE set up just reused the Voss fittings, but I find it interesting that LR say these should be replaced anyway.

[dirvine]

The Gordon EAS system just puts an extra "loop" into the line to each air bag. If You have an issue then you disconnect the loop and pump air directly into each bag individually. In other words the other side of the loop which eventually goes back to the car compressor is bypassed. If you just put one external pump up section near the existing car compressor, you may need to bypass the compressor completely. I say this because lets just say the compressor blows a ring, then unless you can isolate it completely, air will back flow into the compressor and you will be loosing air. Pulling out a fuse wont work in this case. I dont know if putting a one way valve would work as I dont know how the air system we have gets rid of air to deflate the air bags. I think Gordons system whilst it introduces about 5 metres of extra hose to the system works the best. Its simple, it works, and so far I have not heard anybody complain it does not work or has failed.

[DiscoDB]

Good points dirvine. This thread is now about how to reverse engineer the GOE kit given you can no longer buy it. Plus by all accounts the original kit sold with about a 200% mark up.

A similar discussion took place back when Gordon was first developing the kit.

[DieselLSE]

... lets just say the compressor blows a ring, then unless you can isolate it completely, air will back flow into the compressor and you will be loosing air.
No, you can safely remove/replace the compressor assembly without losing any air pressure elsewhere in the system. From the manual: "The front and rear valve blocks and the reservoir valve block are normally closed when de-energized, preventing air pressure in the air springs and the reservoir escaping when the unit is disconnected." This is a really neat feature and must be considered when looking at an emergency supply (other than Gordon's which you describe well).
What also must be considered is that the air reservoir only has one one line for input and output. If the reservoir had a separate input port (like the series and P38 ones did) then keeping it pressurised to 244psi would be simply a matter of connecting a suitable compressor feed to the input port (via a non-return valve). You would then clear the fault codes pertaining to the failed compressor and the EAS computer would be none the wiser as it would not need to send a signal to it to operate as there would always be enough pressure in the rest of the system.
There will be a way to do this, I just haven't figured it out yet. But I agree that Gordon's is a clever and simple system that not only covers all EAS system failures, it also covers a damaged airbag as the car will still be driveable (well, slowly moveable) on three airbags. Probably.

[DiscoDB]

Can always mount a second air tank on the opposite side with a few mods. Been done before.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/142640-onboard-compressor-suspension-backup-tyres-etc.html

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - LR Airtank fitted for compressor install . (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic32433.html)

[dirvine]

Good points dirvine. This thread is now about how to reverse engineer the GOE kit given you can no longer buy it. Plus by all accounts the original kit sold with about a 200% mark up.

A similar discussion took place back when Gordon was first developing the kit.
I consider the 200% mark up part of the R & D Gordon went into to resource, make up the kit, packaging and instructions. In the past In have made products for retail outlets and my mark up was well over 200%. Closer to 350%!!. If we worry about mark up just buy chinese product. Mass Volume, little quality control but lower profit margin per unit. I know which I would rather buy especially now with all the who ha over imports from Asia!!!

[DiscoDB]

I consider the 200% mark up part of the R & D Gordon went into to resource, make up the kit, packaging and instructions. In the past In have made products for retail outlets and my mark up was well over 200%. Closer to 350%!!. If we worry about mark up just buy chinese product. Mass Volume, little quality control but lower profit margin per unit. I know which I would rather buy especially now with all the who ha over imports from Asia!!!

Unfortunately GOE is no longer in business and there is no other kit available, so hopefully with the collaboration of the brilliant AULRO members, we will be able to reverse engineer this kit and provide details for anyone to make it up themselves for around $100.

[PerthDisco]

Small kit as follows

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200521/8a5437e9f0dc4a692ab47bb0f8aa9731.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200521/a5ae33ba987e9d4be1b62e861942d66c.jpg

[DiscoDB]

Small kit as follows


Thanks for this. Nice simple kit.

[PerthDisco]

Thanks for this. Nice simple kit.

Is carried and only fitted when needed which I liked. Is quoted as needing an air compressor capable of 80 psi and needing 30-60 minutes to fit.

Car can be completely returned to stock after use.

[dirvine]

I agree and have forwarded my instructions to a number of prominent members on this site who were going to produce a package. So yes it will be great for those following to reap some benefits if they can. I just took umbrage to your comment on mark up, on the basis it sounded more like you thought Gordon was ripping us off. If we could do everything ourselves we would never get "ripped off". However most of us dont have the time, skills, or money to do things on one off basis to justify the outlay. Given this kit has been available for at least 6-10 years, I am surprised others before had not realised it could be put together for $100 and still make a tidy profit. As you say its not that anything is specially fabricated that needed to be manufactured other than some scissors to cut the length of air hose!! So good luck all and hope once you have the full kit sourced it is posted up with part numbers from all the suppliers so others can get the EAS at the cheap price.

[DiscoDB]

I think we are violently in agreement.....it is a great kit and will be a bargain at half the price. [emoji3]

The small kit probably represented the better deal at the time but I never got around to buying myself.

[Disco4TT3]

I headed down to Enzed today and picked up these:

161165

There's a 1/8 BSP to M10 adaptor, 1/8 BSP "Hex socket" and a 6MM to 1/8 BSP connector.

I'm hoping to test fit over the weekend to see if it's BSP or metric thread.

If it's metric, Enzed said they could tap out half of the hex socket to M10. If it's BSP the socket can be used to adapt the male BSP connector to female.

[DiscoDB]

This is brilliant - never considered that the Hex socket could have been half tapped out to M10 to form an adaptor.

[dirvine]

Issue with the small kit is that when the air system drops to bump stops you need to crawl under car to fit the connectors. That's why I fitted the full kit.

[TuffRR]

Issue with the small kit is that when the air system drops to bump stops you need to crawl under car to fit the connectors. That's why I fitted the full kit.

Agreed. I originally had the small kit, but after being faced with fitting it 3/4's the way up a steep and very rocky hill climb i decided then and there that I would upgrade to the large.

[Disco4TT3]

Quick update: I’ve not been able to test fit yet. Had a series of unfortunate events.. twisted jack, stuck EPB, 3 wheel bearings, 4 rotors/pads and shoes. Hopefully get the truck back tomorrow. Wallet a lot lighter.

[Disco4TT3]

Finally got time to test the parts and results are not what I expected...

I have an ARB bar and access was actually easier by removing the drivers side bash plate:

162072

(I took the opportunity to reroute the lines through the metal brace instead of round the front as they were - lucky they weren't damaged)

The 1/8" male hose connector fitted perfectly into the valve block (I tested the green input line just to be sure they were the same):

162073 162074

But the female 1/8" coupler didn't really fit when trying to thread onto the existing male airline connectors... wha??

162075 162076 162077

Maybe it would thread on with some force.. but I wasn't game.

What are your thoughts?

[DiscoDB]

A 1/8th BSP male will thread into a M10x1 female as it is slightly smaller in diameter and the thread pitch is very similar, so the plastic would deform to suit.

A M10x1 male won’t thread into a 1/8th BSP female because it has a larger diameter than the adaptor. Plus being steel if you force it would strip the thread.

[Disco4TT3]

Right. Seems I forgot to check the M10 thread.

Anecdotally, checking it now on the bits, it feels as tight as when I tried to fit the male airline fittings into the BSP coupling earlier:

162081

Will confirm tomorrow.

[Disco4TT3]

Confirmed.

On my LR4MY10 the front valve block and Voss connectors are M10/1 threads.

I haven’t seen any 6mm push fits with an M10 thread, so the M10 to 1/8 BSP adaptor will have to be used to fit the 1/8 BSP push fits instead.

I guess this is why the GOE kit had the adaptors.

I’ll head into Enzed and see about getting that coupling half tapped to M10 for use on the Voss end. Then we have the makings of a kit.

[Tombie]

Search for PC6-M10 and you’ll find what you need.

[Disco4TT3]

Thanks Tombie!

I found some on eBay but they’re from China (delays). Sent them a question anyway asking if they have female & male versions.

[DiscoDB]

You can also get these out of the UK.

Brass High Pressure Push-in Fittings (https://www.advancedfluidsolutions.co.uk/brass-high-pressure-push-in-fittings-225-c.asp)

All metal fitting and rated to 80bar.

[Disco4TT3]

I like the idea of the brass ones. Trying to find some locally...

[PsyDocH]

Hello all

Just joined up yesterday as I am researching buying a Discovery 4 (hopefully a 2015 SDV6) and have found so much of the info here incredibly useful.

One thing I have come across in my other research is a Spanish company that makes another emergency air up kit called Fastkit Faskit Info - Partsrover (https://www.partsrover.com/en/content/15-faskit-info)
To my newbie eyes it appears to meet the needs of this discussion and of interest appears to be working well with a 150psi portable compressor.

Interested to hear what more experienced heads think?

[Ralph1Malph]

Hello All,
I was following this thread and forgot about the great work being done.
Anyhow, I'm soon to be embarking on a reasonable outback road trip and wonder if anything has progressed since 2020?

How did you get on Disco4TT3? [smilebigeye]

Cheers
Ralph

[haydent]

After reading this whole thread, Im tending to think just having a spare compressor and the ability to tap it into the system to fill the reservoir without swapping it would be a easy backup compromise. Also some spares for repairs like air line and joiners.

[loanrangie]

After reading this whole thread, Im tending to think just having a spare compressor and the ability to tap it into the system to fill the reservoir without swapping it would be a easy backup compromise. Also some spares for repairs like air line and joiners.

I have a 2nd air tank and a mounted compressor, i have considered running some tee fittings with valves between the 2 but the likely hood of a compressor failing without warning is rare.
You are more likely to damage an air line or split a bag, air line can be patched but nothing short of a spare strut with repair a split/leaking bag.

[maxperformance]

This is a great hack considering someone like you and me who do remote trips or towing heavy rigs behind the car in a long distance. Definitely is on my waiting list now

[haydent]

the likely hood of a compressor failing without warning is rare.

while likely true for the motor itself, the real benefit is in having the whole thing with all the other bits, as drying canisters have been known to split apart, also you could destroy a piston or other part in one shot...

[haydent]

No, you can safely remove/replace the compressor assembly without losing any air pressure elsewhere in the system. From the manual: "The front and rear valve blocks and the reservoir valve block are normally closed when de-energized, preventing air pressure in the air springs and the reservoir escaping when the unit is disconnected." This is a really neat feature and must be considered when looking at an emergency supply (other than Gordon's which you describe well).
What also must be considered is that the air reservoir only has one one line for input and output. If the reservoir had a separate input port (like the series and P38 ones did) then keeping it pressurised to 244psi would be simply a matter of connecting a suitable compressor feed to the input port (via a non-return valve). You would then clear the fault codes pertaining to the failed compressor and the EAS computer would be none the wiser as it would not need to send a signal to it to operate as there would always be enough pressure in the rest of the system.
There will be a way to do this, I just haven't figured it out yet. But I agree that Gordon's is a clever and simple system that not only covers all EAS system failures, it also covers a damaged airbag as the car will still be driveable (well, slowly moveable) on three airbags. Probably.

you could put a T with Schrader valve between the tank and valve block, you are introducing a another point of failure but is most convenient
obviously shouldnt cut it while pressurised, still rest of system has to be working other than pump. but can just carry spare pump instead

different option would be to just disconnect pump outlet tube and put Schrader valve on end for temp fix or put T in for permanent, but this way must have electrovalve operating for air to get in or out of tank

both ways would bring moisture in, but so does just pumping a bag directly

as mentioned you could use gap tool to operate valve blocks manually, assuming they still work.

currently im thinking to start by just getting a few connectors to keep in the car permanently (a T-piece, schrader valve, sharp blade, a few joiners, a few meters of 6mm tube), and keeping a spare cheap pump at home and to take on any big trips.

anyway i really just wanted to share these informative details from the manual to help you understand the system to decide what if anything you can fix / prepare for.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/181713d1667777626-air-compressor-rebuild-screenshot-2022-11-07-10-31-00.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/181714d1667777626-air-compressor-rebuild-screenshot-2022-11-07-10-31-23.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/181715d1667777626-air-compressor-rebuild-screenshot-2022-11-07-10-32-25.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/181716d1667777626-air-compressor-rebuild-screenshot-2022-11-07-10-32-44.jpg

[gavinwibrow]

currently im thinking to start by just getting a few connectors to keep in the car permanently (a T-piece, schrader valve, sharp blade, a few joiners, a few meters of 6mm tube), and keeping a spare cheap pump at home and to take on any big trips.


Green Oval made up a couple of emergency kits for front and rear.

I have them on file but they are colour pix in the order of 10K size so can't post them here in reply.

[DiscoDB]

Green Oval made up a couple of emergency kits for front and rear.

I have them on file but they are colour pix in the order of 10K size so can't post them here in reply.

See post #4 in this thread.

[DieselLSE]

Wouldn't hurt to post it again

[BradC]

Bit of a necro, but I've been looking into this for a while. The original VOSS connectors have a parallel thread and O-ring seal. I replaced all the O-rings when I did the valve blocks a couple of years ago.

These : 3101 06 60 | Legris LF3000 Series Straight Threaded Adaptor, M10 Male to Push In 6 mm, Threaded-to-Tube Connection Style | RS (https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/pneumatic-fittings/4928435) have an M10x1 thread with O-ring seal and are rated to 20 bar.

They've also got joiners : https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/pneumatic-fittings/2595151 rated to 18 bar.

Lots of speculation on thread size. I note the GOE instructions refer to BSPP threads, and as noted above a G1/8 thread isn't far off an M10x1. The VOSS 203 catalog for that specific connector only lists Metric threads with an O-ring seal (https://voss.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/documents/Catalogs/203_catalog_us.pdf'mtime=20200616075330&focal=none). There are 2 adapters in the series that have a NPT or G1/8 thread, but not in that style (small with collet).

From that I assume it has to be an M10x1 connector, but due to the configuration of the connector used it needs to use the external O-ring as a seal.

I'm only looking for connectors that are 17+ Bar rated, and they're a bit more $$ than the generic Parker stuff you find in the corner shop.

[haydent]

while likely true for the motor itself, the real benefit is in having the whole thing with all the other bits, as drying canisters have been known to split apart, also you could destroy a piston or other part in one shot...

welp it happened ... im out in a national park near broken hill and somethings gone wrong with the compressor, runs, but not making any pressure, gets very hot and doesnt sound good, im guessing its snapped a piston rod or something. (cheap $250 ebay pump)

I wish id brought my spare pump, as normally no point carrying it around in car, but with room in van i could have done it.

Also i should have actually tested out my backup system when at home ... Im pretty confident i can pump the car up , the main unknown is if my pump can do enough pressure for the 3t van on the back as well ....

Currently 180psi in the tank, so not wasting that and will wait until lower and cant level before trying anything, my ryobi battery powered pump does 140 psi, (rated to 160psi but the bike valve style connector on the end leaks too much to get above 140)

Investigated the GAP tool , and it lets you 'test the valves' section which lets air from the tank to either the front or rear corners even though the pump is not running and there is a yellow error code. Which is good news for only having to tap into the system in one place near the tank/pump rather than each corner.

[bigwhistle]

[loanrangie]

welp it happened ... im out in a national park near broken hill and somethings gone wrong with the compressor, runs, but not making any pressure, gets very hot and doesnt sound good, im guessing its snapped a piston rod or something. (cheap $250 ebay pump)

I wish id brought my spare pump, as normally no point carrying it around in car, but with room in van i could have done it.

Also i should have actually tested out my backup system when at home ... Im pretty confident i can pump the car up , the main unknown is if my pump can do enough pressure for the 3t van on the back as well ....

Currently 180psi in the tank, so not wasting that and will wait until lower and cant level before trying anything, my ryobi battery powered pump does 140 psi, (rated to 160psi but the bike valve style connector on the end leaks too much to get above 140)

Investigated the GAP tool , and it lets you 'test the valves' section which lets air from the tank to either the front or rear corners even though the pump is not running and there is a yellow error code. Which is good news for only having to tap into the system in one place near the tank/pump rather than each corner.

[bigwhistle]

Jack the rear up so that the pump doesnt need to work as hard, could also unhitch the van or use the jockey wheel to take some load off.
If you can raise it normal height pull the fuse for self levelling and remove the compressor relay.

[DiscoJeffster]

welp it happened ... im out in a national park near broken hill and somethings gone wrong with the compressor, runs, but not making any pressure, gets very hot and doesnt sound good, im guessing its snapped a piston rod or something. (cheap $250 ebay pump)

I wish id brought my spare pump, as normally no point carrying it around in car, but with room in van i could have done it.

Also i should have actually tested out my backup system when at home ... Im pretty confident i can pump the car up , the main unknown is if my pump can do enough pressure for the 3t van on the back as well ....

Currently 180psi in the tank, so not wasting that and will wait until lower and cant level before trying anything, my ryobi battery powered pump does 140 psi, (rated to 160psi but the bike valve style connector on the end leaks too much to get above 140)

Investigated the GAP tool , and it lets you 'test the valves' section which lets air from the tank to either the front or rear corners even though the pump is not running and there is a yellow error code. Which is good news for only having to tap into the system in one place near the tank/pump rather than each corner.

[bigwhistle]

Maybe a lesson learned that for a critical component, Chinese eBay replicas are not the best idea.

[haydent]

Jack the rear up so that the pump doesnt need to work as hard, could also unhitch the van or use the jockey wheel to take some load off.
If you can raise it normal height pull the fuse for self levelling and remove the compressor relay.

This is a good suggestion and something ill try if needed. After the initial shock of it, im starting to think that a compressor failure is not that big a deal, as the system notifies you of it right away and you likely will have a full tank in reserve at that point which should last a few days if not longer. The go is to just as said pull the right fuses to help this.

If you think about your car can sit parked for months and stay level without running the compressor, so its really not that critical.

I tried pulling the relay, and you get alternating errors just constant flashing, cant clear, very off putting. But once the compressor fuse is pulled this doesnt happen. So i dont think you need to pull the relay, and maybe not even the fuse unless you specifically want to stop the pump.

As i found with the pump relay and fuse pulled it is still opening the reservoir valve and loosing a bit of air each time you start.

I tried pulling the 20amp suspension ecu which im guessing feeds the valves, but then you loose all height measurements and the 4x4 screen shows access height, so you cant monitor your height that way. but maybe thats the best to not loose any air, or the other idea i might try is just disconnecting the reserve valve electrical plug.

Anyway my reserve is down to 140psi now, as been doing a few small trips around the park each day to walks etc. So its getting within the range that my pump should be able to get it back to. Ill just be waiting a couple more days until i need to put the van on, and then look at plumbing in the connectors and pumping more into it if its gone done more and cant level with the van on, and try jacking it if need.

Which fuse were you talking about loanrangie ?

[loanrangie]

This is a good suggestion and something ill try if needed. After the initial shock of it, im starting to think that a compressor failure is not that big a deal, as the system notifies you of it right away and you likely will have a full tank in reserve at that point which should last a few days if not longer. The go is to just as said pull the right fuses to help this.

If you think about your car can sit parked for months and stay level without running the compressor, so its really not that critical.

I tried pulling the relay, and you get alternating errors just constant flashing, cant clear, very off putting. But once the compressor fuse is pulled this doesnt happen. So i dont think you need to pull the relay, and maybe not even the fuse unless you specifically want to stop the pump.

As i found with the pump relay and fuse pulled it is still opening the reservoir valve and loosing a bit of air each time you start.

I tried pulling the 20amp suspension ecu which im guessing feeds the valves, but then you loose all height measurements and the 4x4 screen shows access height, so you cant monitor your height that way. but maybe thats the best to not loose any air, or the other idea i might try is just disconnecting the reserve valve electrical plug.

Anyway my reserve is down to 140psi now, as been doing a few small trips around the park each day to walks etc. So its getting within the range that my pump should be able to get it back to. Ill just be waiting a couple more days until i need to put the van on, and then look at plumbing in the connectors and pumping more into it if its gone done more and cant level with the van on, and try jacking it if need.

Which fuse were you talking about loanrangie ?

F26 is the self levelling fuse in the engine bay fusebox, i assume its the same for L320.

[RANDLOVER]

F26 is the self levelling fuse in the engine bay fusebox, i assume its the same for L320.

There is also F35 for the EAS behind the glovebox, which I suspect feeds the EAS controller located beside the accelerator pedal.

[haydent]

Yeah, thats the one for the suspension ECU, Im driving around with just it removed currently, I figure there is no point taking out the pump fuse or relay too, as the pump/relay cannot be activated by the ecu if it's had its fuse/power disconnected.

I already have a joiner between the pump and the valve block from the last time i had pump/leaking problems, so this is the first place ill try pumping from, and it means you dont have to deflate the reservoir.

Im thinking im best to disconnect the reservoir valve electric plug, as this is opened when you adjust the height, so if you have the backup pump connected and running while you trigger the height adjustment, to manually set the height, if the reservoir valve is allowed to open (and the tank has less air pressure than needed) you will be trying to pump up your bags and reservoir at the same time which would slow things down considerably.

Alternatively one might want to tap into the tank line , between tank and tank valve, and then just pump the reservoir up first, and then just let the auto levelling do its thing, and manually adjust with GAP if needed. This way you have spare air on hand in the tank if needed.

[haydent]

There is also F35 for the EAS behind the glovebox, which I suspect feeds the EAS controller located beside the accelerator pedal.

F35 is just an 5amp ignition sense wire, so it knows when the car is on, similar too F3 5amp, which is a sense wire for the compressor voltage supply ,

F22 20amp is the main eas ecu power supply

maybe you could just pull the f35 and the ecu will still be running but forced into thinking the car is always off, i might try that and see if the GAP tool can still talk to it or not

that being said the car does level and adjust when the engine is off, so its not really ideal if you want to completely disable auto adjustments

[haydent]

Big update time, made it 450km today towards home (mid nsw coast).

Once the van was on the back, i used the test valves function to put as much air into the rear as possible. At the start i had 135psi in the tank, and by the time it was equalised and no more would go in it was at about 115psi. There was still a bit of a dip in the back, but definitely could have driven it, no worse than some of the vehicles you see towing.

Then I jacked up the jockey jack, lifting the rear of the car up really high, and used the same function to let more air in, once no more would flow, I let it down and the rear was perfect, so very happy I didnt have to climb under and work on anything ! (My ball weight is appx 250kg) The nose was a little high, now, so i let some air out of the front bags. If only id pulled the right fuse the moment i had the pump error, my tank would have 200psi to spend.

We then drove the 70km unsealed road out of the national park and to the highway. But we found that when around 50kmh it would constantly (every minute or so) beep & come up with red error says, suspension fault , max 50km, i could still drive faster but the flashing & beeping error between yellow and red were very frustrating.

Thats when I thought to try the fuse behind the glove box.


There is also F35 for the EAS behind the glovebox, which I suspect feeds the EAS controller located beside the accelerator pedal.

Thank you for pointing this out ! You were right and I assumed the wording in the schematic wrong. The 5amp behind the glove box is the supply to the eas ecu, i found this out after noticing i could read the height sensor with the GAP with the F22 under the bonnet pulled out. The F22 one seems to just be for the valves.

For me though in a 2010 (facelift) L320 the glove box fuse is F10 (and likely D4 too) as my 2009 workshop manual says F35, but the car says F10. Once this was pulled there was no errors at all, nothing, it was beautiful, but a little surprising, that if for some reason that fuse blew, you would have no indication the whole eas system was not working apart from the height adjust buttons not being lit up.

My front was a little tilted side to side according to the height sensors, so i tried to activate the cross flow valve in the front, but that part of GAP musnt work. I suspect i could make individual changes to each bag (instead of in pairs) by using the manual height calibration menu, making sure to re-run that process once all fixed up.

On the drive I started thinking about how i could test pumping the reservoir back , though hopefully I wont need it. When stopped for the day I had another look under the car, the line from the tank to the valve block looks a little thicker than the other lines (which are 6mm) that i have the connectors too, and im hesitant to put a join in this pipe, for if there is even just a small leak, the tank might drain every night and overwork the pump and delay balancing each morning. I think ill look at the threaded inlet on the tank when home, to see if it would be possible to add a T section there and a schraeder valve.

So I thought there's 2 ways I can fill from my join in the pump to valve block hose, one would be to have the pump hooked up to it and start the car, and the car should open the tank valve for the normal pump to fill itself up, but id have the power disconnected to the normal pump (at the pump) so the car is no wiser that instead of the normal pump running its the backup. I would want to have the door open though so that the car didnt try and level itself.

The 2nd option that I went for was to use the deflate reservoir option in GAP, as all deflation happen back through the pump, so instead of deflate it will inflate as the pressure is greater at the pump than the tank.
This went pretty well, I started at 80psi and in about 6-10 minutes I had it up to 130psi. The deflate option keeps the valve open for 2 minutes at a time, so you have to monitor it and activate it again, being extremely careful not to press the buttons next to it which is deflate corners or all, as that would be tragic..... I will try the first 'engine on' option next time im testing, as it also means it could be done without GAP.
Then bang/crack whiz, at the ryobi pump destroyed itself [bigwhistle]

At least I registered it for warranty, and it will be a instant swap at any bunnings, but sadly this means this pump (while rated to 160psi (10 L/Min @35 PSI)) wont be suitable for this job. So next ill try a 4wd 150psi ~180 lpm pump when i can get one in the next big town.

194302

[haydent]

Another 300km done today without any adjustments or extra air needed.

At the start of the day I momentarily put the ecu fuse back in to check the levels and the front was down a bit, turns out the heat from the engine causes a noticeable difference in the front air spring pressure that is normally corrected by the system. I had had this happen without realising why on the first day, as id found after starting level when cold and driving for an hour the front had popped up, so id had to manually let it back down level.

Arriving in the the caravan park, we are stopping for 2 days, so took the van off and the back popped way up and the nose down a little. Letting down the rear was simple enough, except my filling valve now blocks deflations which would normally go back to the pump, so i had to remove that connector first. I put it back on and tried to raise the front , but it went down instead ! I must have had less air in the tank than needed.

I drove and picked up the new pump I ordered click and collect for $200 ($100 off), and this thing is a beast. It can fill the tank to (the pumps) max pressure 150 psi in about 2 minutes from empty and comes with anderson plug (as well as standard battery clips)

The thing that really surprised me was just how much more pressure the front needed than the back ! The rear would be level at around 100 psi, while the front took every bit of the 150psi the pump could do. (TDV8 being heavier)

I did a bunch of other investigations too now that i had ample air supply:

- Turns out the ecu detects if the motor it unplugged too ! So that means there is no way really to fill the tank via the standard engine start method and not need a GAP, unless you plugged your backup pump into the cars pump power supply plug.

- As mentioned by using a single connector on the pump line (not t) there is no way for the system to lower or deflate, so if you need to you can take the valve out, or i later worked out its easier to press the valve center first to release pressure, then simply take quick-fit connector of the pipe instead.

- I tried a "T" into the pump line so that i could keep the factory level/balance mechanisms while driving, and it could even be left in permanently, problem with this is that when filling the tank via the deflate GAP option, you need to unplug the pumps multi plug otherwise it will actually deflate your tank, and then plug back in once full. I decided i did not like this approach, as the system will eventually waste your air supply, each time you start up the car or hop in/out, and you have to look at the errors. I decided id rather go full manual and just run with the ecu or valve fuse unplugged once pumped up and level so nothing changes. Also there could be pump failure scenarios were the pump piston or dryer housing cracks and doesnt hold air and has to be disconnected to get the system air tight again.

- I found while driving around town without the van with the ecu on, but valve fuse pulled id only get the single yellow suspension error, so there must be something about having the van on that triggers the more persistent red errors. Maybe the extra bumping around.

- I found you could use the 'test valves' function with the pump connected it would keep the valve open as long as you held the button, so with the digital display pump i could have it idle and push the up arrow in the app for say the rear and if the tank and pump where equal i would see the pressure of the bag/tank on the pump screen, and then, while still holding, i could start the pump and it would pump up the selected springs and the tank at the same time, and in the case of the front springs where i needed as much pressure as the pump could supply, but the time the springs would not raise any more and the pump had stopped at it target/max pressure the tank would be full. So this is a way to fill the tank without the deflate method, so long as the max tank target is the same as the front or rear spring. One could even unplug the tank control valve wires if there was a leak in the tank or its pipe, and pump the bags alone.

- If you accidentally start a deflate, or jut want to end one early, just turn the car ignition off and on, it will stop, and the app will say 'deflate failed' but still keep working fine without a reconnect.



194313

194314

[RANDLOVER]

The EAS is very sensitive, I've often had my rears deflate a bit in the garage with the roller door open early morning as the sun heats and expands the airbags.

[BradC]

One issue that may crop up is the amount of moisture your tyre pump will have pushed into the system. Last time I went away I added a moisture trap to my compressor when airing up after a few off road excursions and the amount of water it caught was surprising.

Suppose it depends on the humidity in the area you are in, but I now see the reason for the bloody big desiccant chamber.

[discomatt69]

Anyone who has done a lot of 4wding knows how much water gets pumped out of a compressor every time they air up
there is no way I would pump that into my suspension

[gavinwibrow]

One issue that may crop up is the amount of moisture your tyre pump will have pushed into the system. Last time I went away I added a moisture trap to my compressor when airing up after a few off road excursions and the amount of water it caught was surprising.

Suppose it depends on the humidity in the area you are in, but I now see the reason for the bloody big desiccant chamber.


hi Brad. Care to share what type of moisture trap you used?
I checked on line and prices vary from $22 at Supercheap, to several hundred dollars at Air Tools WA!

Interesting comment from Air Tools - "Caution, water separators can remove water droplets, but it cannot remove moisture".

[BradC]

hi Brad. Care to share what type of moisture trap you used?

A cheap **** one from Aliexpress. Just a standard 1/4" moisture trap with a pair of Nitto connectors on it. Yes, it removes wet stuff but certainly will let through water vapor.
The long coily hose from the compressor seems to cool the air enough to drop out quite a bit of water which then winds up in the bowl before it goes into the inflator.

[haydent]

One issue that may crop up is the amount of moisture your tyre pump will have pushed into the system. Last time I went away I added a moisture trap to my compressor when airing up after a few off road excursions and the amount of water it caught was surprising.


It is something Im aware of and have thought about having repacked the dryer in the LR system. A moisture trap will only catch/stop water liquid that has already condensed out of the hot compressed air once it cools sufficiently before the trap (generally in the source compressor tank, not applicable for tyre pump, though some cooling can occur in the hose), depending on this distance and cooling ability, there is likely still more cooling it will do inside the destination tank/system where it can condense more water. Though it wont hurt and they are cheap so you could add one to the kit, but only at the end of the hose not the start unless you are using a tanked source.

This is why what you really need ideally is an air drier, which is something else and what LR have built into the onboard system with desiccant in it. You could easily make one your self and even just use damp rid or silica gel in a bit of pvc pressure pipe and filter pad at one end with fittings each end, and hook this tube inline. But you have to keep your chosen desiccant sealed before use.

Another idea ive seen is a cooling coil of metal tube that the air flows up through or/and a water trap/filter at the end.

One test id like to still do is see if GAP will still activate the valve test function with the tank valve wires unplugged, this way you could choose to just pump into the bags and not fill the tank as well, which is not really needed in hindsight, since I currently prefer just pulling the valve body and/or ecu fuse once full and level.

But really (and hopefully, as i didnt have any choice) its likely a relatively small amount of air/moisture that you are pumping in maybe once or twice in an emergency, compared to the volume that is pumped by the car normally in its life, and that this dryer air in the future should dry out any moisture that has gotten in this once.

[loanrangie]

For short term emergency use there would be very little risk of excess moisture and any that went in would be expelled when the system vents at shutdown.

[DiscoJeffster]

All this BS for buying a cheap arse pump. For others out there, learn the lesson and enjoy your holiday by buying a good quality replacement or servicing the existing genuine beforehand. 16 years in my pump. Overhauled once, desiccant rebuild twice. 400,000km.
I admire your efforts to survive this issue and you know the system like an expert now, but this isn't the holiday I'd have chosen. Still, I think you thrive on this so maybe it's been fun [emoji2373]Admirable efforts, but ...

[discomatt69]

My 2013 model is still on the original pump at 145,000km , before our next big outback trip I plan to replace the pump with a new original spec to avoid any issues
as the old saying states ? the poor man pays twice ?
Not stating anyone's financial situation but trying to save a few $ on such a vital item just isn't worth the risk IMO

[haydent]

All this BS for buying a cheap arse pump. For others out there, learn the lesson and enjoy your holiday by buying a good quality replacement or servicing the existing genuine beforehand. 16 years in my pump. Overhauled once, desiccant rebuild twice. 400,000km.
I admire your efforts to survive this issue and you know the system like an expert now, but this isn't the holiday I'd have chosen. Still, I think you thrive on this so maybe it's been fun [emoji2373]Admirable efforts, but ...

This very rude & dismissive language seems to suggests a factory pump or any parts of the suspension system has never failed, which is rubbish. If you dont like my posts dont ready them, and when you get stuck in the simpson desert because you didnt care to read about and carry a $10 air fitting so you could use the existing tyre pump you likely will be carrying to self rescue than good luck ... For sure it seems the ebay pump didnt last as long as the original, I specifically posted that detail, knowing i would get flamed for it, but to help others learn from my mistakes or prepare for breakdowns (I will teardown the pump and report what broke)

Who is to know if that car you just bought hadnt had a cheap ebay one installed before you bought it ? And your 16 year old one wont last forever, nothing does. That being said I will be putting my original pump back in (that I rebuilt after replacement with the ebay one), rather than buy a new one, in the confidence knowing that i can handle a failure should it happen.


such a vital item just isn't worth the risk IMO

My experience is now that it is not such a vital part, and that if caught early and the right actions carried out you can pretty much recover yourself easily without a working pump.

Now back to my latest update:


Put the van back on, and levelled enough using the tank air, rears taking about 130psi with the van on (~250kg ball) without having to jack it up this time.

Having the luxury of a proven and working backup air supply i ran another test, I tried driving again with the ecu fuse in, and at times the valve fuse, to find out the following:

During ecu startup (either car start, or enable eas option in gap) it will first do a vent test, letting a bit or air out of the tank first to test that system, then if that passes it will test the pump circuitry and run the pump if needed. This is one of the reason why if your pump stops working, each stop/start of the car, the tank will eventually run out of air, unless you pull the valves fuse.

If the ecu can not detect a pressure drop in the tank pressure sensor during this venting, either because you have a one way schraeder valve on the pump line, or the valve fuse is removed, (or blockage / valve problem) it will throw an error something along the lines of "pressure would not drop when expected" and its this error being present that will cause the constant red warning "50kmh max" to occur.

This can be prevented from happening by either pulling the ecu fuse as well (and loosing height sensors) or keeping the schraeder valve open during startup/ eas enable at the cost of some tank air. Or you could install a T in the line rather than a end fitting, so that the factory venting can happen.

I also worked out a way you can pump the springs directly without filling the tank as well, maybe you're worried about mositure, or maybe just to save time, by once the backup pump is connected and ready, if you use the test valves function in GAP, but instead of pressing up (which opens the tank valve) you hold down, and start the pump running, it will actually make the car go up instead of down, bypassing the tank. (note if using T in pump line you would have to disconnect factory pump multi plug to stop it opening the vent valve, though im still to confirm if you can use the 'test valves' function with either the tank or vent valves disconnected electrically )

[discomatt69]

Nup, sticking with vital part theory with the pump.
reason being when I am away travelling I want and expect a headache and stress free trip not mucking around with a faulty car every day
This reminds me of a time camped in the caravan park at Coober Pedy years ago, a couple of other campers walked past our camp and commented/laughed at the crap Disco sitting so low with failed air suspension.
They didn't know it was just at access height and the look on their faces the next morning when I backed the car up to the camper and lifted it up to its high mode to hook up the camper without even getting out of the car was priceless

[haydent]

Everyone's definition of vital will be different, and situation dependant, mine for this is, that the item would stop the car from being driven which this does not.

[BradC]

During ecu startup (either car start, or enable eas option in gap) it will first do a vent test, letting a bit or air out of the tank first to test that system, then if that passes it will test the pump circuitry and run the pump if needed. This is one of the reason why if your pump stops working, each stop/start of the car, the tank will eventually run out of air, unless you pull the valves fuse.

Just to clarify this. The test on startup is measuring tank pressure. It opens the reservoir valve which brings the gallery pressure up. This is measured and if it's less than about 1 bar from set point, then it'll close the valve, vent the gallery, start the compressor then open the reservoir valve to pump it back up.

If it is within 1 bar of set point then it'll just shut the reservoir valve and vent the gallery.

In my D3 I get about 3 measurement cycles before the pressure drops enough to require topping up.

During that process, it applies all sanity checks, so as you say if the gallery doesn't vent when the ECU tries to then it'll throw a code.

[discomatt69]

Everyone's definition of vital will be different, and situation dependant, mine for this is, that the item would stop the car from being driven which this does not.
Fair enough, my definition of vital is the fun time to be had while on holiday not stuffing around with a car.
I would be close to flying home and selling the car if had a trip which involved as much stuffing around as you have put up with
each to their own

[haydent]

Just to clarify this. The test on startup is measuring tank pressure. It opens the reservoir valve which brings the gallery pressure up. This is measured and if it's less than about 1 bar from set point, then it'll close the valve, vent the gallery, start the compressor then open the reservoir valve to pump it back up.

If it is within 1 bar of set point then it'll just shut the reservoir valve and vent the gallery.

In my D3 I get about 3 measurement cycles before the pressure drops enough to require topping up.

During that process, it applies all sanity checks, so as you say if the gallery doesn't vent when the ECU tries to then it'll throw a code.

Yeah, I was reflecting on this overnight too, and I was thinking the same thing, there's an in between step where it is checking the tank pressure before checking the venting system, and after those 2 checking the pump and running it if needed. The interesting thing is that if any one fails, it doesnt seem to go onto test the next one, if vent fails, it throws error and doesnt check the pump.

[haydent]

I would be close to flying home and selling the car if had a trip which involved as much stuffing around as you have put up with
each to their own

I know the feeling, its been stressful, but we were potentially quite stuck, in a remote outback national park, that nrma potentially could have rejected recovering us from due to distance and access.

It was something I had prepared for, as we did do a day trip into the simpson, so was determined to at least attempt self recovery, it is the end of our 2 month caravan trip, and I wasnt about to let this ruin the end of a great trip, by potentially costing us thousands in towing and repair bills and delay us possibly a week, when i have a spare at home that we can just drive home to get it :)

In terms of the things ive had to fix on cars, this was one of the easiest.

[RANDLOVER]

Double post.

[RANDLOVER]

Fair enough, my definition of vital is the fun time to be had while on holiday not stuffing around with a car.
I would be close to flying home and selling the car if had a trip which involved as much stuffing around as you have put up with
each to their own

As the saying goes, everyone should have a hobby, and this thread could be very useful to someone someday.

[DiscoJeffster]

As the saying goes, everyone should have a hobby, and this thread could be very useful to someone someday.

Sounds more like a full time job [emoji1787]

[BradC]

The interesting thing is that if any one fails, it doesnt seem to go onto test the next one, if vent fails, it throws error and doesnt check the pump.

Which makes perfect sense. If it can't get air out of the gallery it's not going to want to put more in there. I had forgotten about the pump test after the pressure measurement. Pump on into a closed gallery to ensure it sees a pressure rise then vent. Of course the venting at the end of these procedures was a mid-run software upgrade. The early software didn't do that and left the gallery at whatever pressure it was at. That was causing pump wear/failure when repeatedly trying to start into a 16 bar head pressure, so they modified the software to ensure the gallery was less than a couple of bar absolute (so always positive to atmospheric to prevent moisture ingress if there was a problem).

There's a post somewhere where I lay out the actual process with relevant pressures. When I was diagnosing my system I spent a lot of time logging, observing and cross referencing both the training manual and the service manual to document exactly what it does. Of course I can't find it now.

You've managed pretty well, and yes there is some information in this thread that needs to be summarised in a sticky because the likelihood is it will help someone one day.

[discomatt69]

As the saying goes, everyone should have a hobby, and this thread could be very useful to someone someday.
Absolutely this thread will be of great assistance to someone one day, I just hope and pray it's not me and am happy to spend cash on preventative maintenance to reduce the chance of me swearing at the much loved touring beast