Dual Battery Volt Issue

[Scotty85]

Howdy,

I bought a Traxide dual battery DT90 and fitted it 1 year ago. I bought 2x Exide Orbital 34DC AGM battery's which only have 50 AH each. I have been noticing that the auxiliary battery has not been lasting as long as it did 1 year ago. I bought the 2 battery's brand new at the same time 1 year ago as well.

I had the battery's tested today by Battery World and they told me that the cranking and the aux battery are only holding 12.40 volts each :( I am really only using the aux battery for a fridge when camping at this stage. Best I can work out it uses 4.5 amps. When not camping, the aux battery is not connected to the fridge or anything else and left connected to the cranking battery. With only 12.40 volts, I am not getting the fully use of the battery.

160752

Do you think the battery's could be faulty at all? They were on sale for $250 each when I picked them up. I am yet to call the shop I bought them from but do you think it is a battery fault and worth asking for replacements under warranty or is it likely that the 12.40 volts were caused by me and not a battery fault?

I did ask Battery World and the said that as the CCA is fine it was doubtful that I could claim under warranty. I would hope they are telling the complete truth and not just saying that in the hopes I buy new battery's through them.... I would have thought the the battery's might have lasted a bit longer than 1 year?

So, I am seeking a second opinion. What are your thoughts?

[drivesafe]

Hi Scotty, are you driving much and when you drive, is it short or long drives?

[Scotty85]

Usually short trips, about 15 minutes around town. I live too close to work! about once a week I will do a 40 minute drive each way. In about 1 month my drive time will go up to 30 minutes drive to work and 30 back. Defender is my daily drive.

[drivesafe]

Too many short drive I suspect.

try putting a battery charger on every night for a week and see if this recovers you batteries.

[W&KO]

My defer doesn’t get garages, I found a decent sized solar panel on the roof really helps.

[Scotty85]

Too many short drive I suspect.

try putting a battery charger on every night for a week and see if this recovers you batteries.

Will do! I have be loaned a CTEK charger to use and see if that makes a difference

[Scotty85]

My defer doesn’t get garages, I found a decent sized solar panel on the roof really helps.

Yeah same here. Defender is too big to fit into the garage at home. I would like a permanent fixed solar on the roof and I think it may be my next buy. I have a folding one but it would likely get stolen where I live.....

[W&KO]

Yeah same here. Defender is too big to fit into the garage at home. I would like a permanent fixed solar on the roof and I think it may be my next buy. I have a folding one but it would likely get stolen where I live.....

Maybe strap the folding one to the roof....

[drivesafe]

Yeah same here. Defender is too big to fit into the garage at home. I would like a permanent fixed solar on the roof and I think it may be my next buy. I have a folding one but it would likely get stolen where I live.....
Hi again Scotty and solar charging is always better than anything else.


For just keeping your batteries topped up and in good condition, you do not need a large solar panel.


A 10w panel mounted inside next to a window, will easily look after your batteries.


You just need to remember to park in a direction that allows the panel to face the sun.

[Scotty85]

Maybe strap the folding one to the roof....

I would but its not full time water proof :(

[Scotty85]

Hi again Scotty and solar charging is always better than anything else.


For just keeping your batteries topped up and in good condition, you do not need a large solar panel.


A 10w panel mounted inside next to a window, will easily look after your batteries.


You just need to remember to park in a direction that allows the panel to face the sun.

Drivesafe that is a good idea. Either I do this or I will add a fixed to the roof.

[Scotty85]

So I had an update. I emailed Exide and explained the situation. They were going to replace them under warranty even thought it was just out of warranty (1 and a bit months). They only have a 1 yr warranty.... Due to COVID19, there was a delay in getting them checked sooner, however the battery issue wasn't detected until my recent trip to Moreton Island (1 week before COVID restrictions).

So Exide stated they would replace them no worries. After I sent a reply email back, Exide then said they didn't look at me email correctly and noticed the batteries were out of warranty and didn't want to know me. I asked them several times if they were aware of a possible bad batch of batteries made and they wouldn't reply to that direct question and continued to say it was out of warranty.

I do understand that out of warranty is out of warranty, even though it was only by just over 1 month. But their attitude in their email completely changed when they said the warranty was over.

I find it stupid how products tend to fail when they fall just outside of their warranty time..... I would have hoped that they might offer good will on the batteries due to movement restrictions and closure of businesses for the last 6 or so weeks.

It is safe to say when I do replace these batteries, I won't be buying Exide ones ever again!

Looks like Yellow Top will be the next 2 bought. Shame about the price of them though :(

In the mean time, I will just do my best to try to increase the life of the Exide ones.

[AK83]

....

I had the battery's tested today by Battery World and they told me that the cranking and the aux battery are only holding 12.40 volts each ....

"you were lucky!" (said in the traditional Monty Pythonesque manner [biggrin])

I reckon I was lucky to see my Century holding that after less than 6 months, and now barely see it holding 12.2v overnight sometimes.
For the first month, maybe two, it easily hold over 12.7(or close) as the Redarc solenoid would click off the moment I opened the door .. but steadily got lower and lower as time has gone on.
Alternator charges it fine, it holds for a good few hours but then down to 12.2 mostly.
My aux is a cheapo Repco whatever, 50 Ah type thing, nothing special, just there because it can be .. it hold 12.5-12.6 easily. Some cold mornings down to 12.4.

While so far I see no issues with my brothers Yellow and Red tops(in a D2), many members here have complained in recent times that they're not what they used to be.
Bro has had them in for a good 3 years now, and they're not used much, and been sitting idle for the past few months(he got a new car).
I have his D2 here now, as he's gone all posh and upmarket in his new ute .. so I can keep an eye on them and stuff.

There could be a possibility that maybe just the one battery is dead/dying and as the Traxide system is set to keep them connected to a low charge level, maybe the bad one is killing the good one .. dunno, maybe Tim could enlighten on such a possibility.

[drivesafe]

Hi Arthur, and excuse my question as I seem to have missed something.

What exactly is your DBS comprised of?

[Red90]

Without reading all of this, I’ve had two recent Exide batteries die within two years despite always being on high quality chargers.I think they have a quality control issue.

[AK83]

....

What exactly is your DBS comprised of?

Just the Redarc VSR(80 amp) and the usual stuff. No solar and stuff like that, very basic aux battery, wires to the rear, plugs back there. Rarely used.

The only addition I made to the VSR is to install the manual connect switch with a momentary on switch so that I can connect the aux for cold morning starts.
That Century N70S I have is very sluggish on cold mornings in my Tdi. Starts, but sounds nothing like a 700CCA battery.
So, push the manual switch, wait a sec or two then start. A lot better.
In normal driving(once warm) no problem with battery and or starter motor, it's lightning quick cranking, and sounds more like a 700CCA start battery.
When it was new, ie those first few months, no problem.

Brothers TD5 tho, no matter how cold, cranks like a 800CCA battery would seem too.

My D1 is my daily, and gets good drives out of it, so plenty of charge time for the start battery. Charge voltage seems to be in the 14.3v range for the first <whatever time> .. say, half - one hour, never really bothered to measure it.
Say if I'm driving for two hours .. at some point I notice on the meters that the initial 14.3 or 14.4 v do slowly drop down to 13.9-14.0 volts .. maybe even slightly lower over the drive time.

Other thing about the Century, I got it originally Jan 17, it died in Oct where it dropped a cell. Had the usual trouble from the sale point, in that they almost always try to get out of warranty claims.
But the second time I went back the Century sales rep was there and tested it and immediately said dropped cell, so Supercheap had no option but to replace it. So the current Century has been in since Oct 17, straight from the Century delivery van.

[Scotty85]

Without reading all of this, I’ve had two recent Exide batteries die within two years despite always being on high quality chargers.I think they have a quality control issue.

I agree with you mate!

[drivesafe]

Hi Arthur and with that idea driving and perfect charging voltages, it's strange that the batteries are having such a short life.

[AK83]

Hi Arthur and with that idea driving and perfect charging voltages, it's strange that the batteries are having such a short life.

Dunno? lax manufacturing maybe :confused: or changing a process to save a few cents per unit.

Technically my current battery is OK under ideal conditions, just seems to have lost raw cranking ability from what it was like when new.
The way I park my D1 just happens that the bonnet faces north, so gets sun as the sun moves across the sky.
So cold early morning before the sun gets a chance to heat up the bonnet, and hence engine bay, and the cranking is slow.
Wait till maybe 11AM or so, the time varies depending on the conditions, sometimes need to wait till say 1PM, but once warmed up a little, cranking is faster and sounds more like a 700CCA effort.
By about 11AM - 1PM, the suns radiation has warmed up the bonnet, but the air could still be quite crisp and cool, so temps could still feel like low teens or something.

But as said, when they were newer, I don't remember them being so gutless in their first autumn out in the wild. This has gotten steadily worse, so it appears as tho the batteries cold performance is getting worse.

So it's more like the battery just isn't as well suited to cold environments or something.
Whereas my bros D2 with it's Optimas has no probs on these cold frosty conditions, it currently sitting in the rear yard, so completely opposing ambient conditions to the D1 and hasn't been driven regularly.

Don't have a charger at the moment, mine has met it's maker(and now unmaker .. me!) but I want to charge both batteries up properly and then try them both out as tests.

One last thing too.
I'm reading/hearing that these AFM batteries don't really like the lower voltages that most alternators pump out, yet so many folks pop them into their D1/D2 Rangies and many old vehicles and don't seem to have all that many issues.
I had one in one of my P6Bs all those years ago(came with it), and I don't ever recall it having issues.
So for the D1 Tdi, which seems to enjoy higher CCA batteries what would you suggest

[Robmacca]

Hi again Scotty and solar charging is always better than anything else.


For just keeping your batteries topped up and in good condition, you do not need a large solar panel.


A 10w panel mounted inside next to a window, will easily look after your batteries.


You just need to remember to park in a direction that allows the panel to face the sun.

Hi Drivesafe...

Just curious here but I did use to have a 10w panel permenantly connected to the 10w solar panel when not driving and I found that it was not enough and the battery failed in the end. My dual battery setup uses dual 140amp VSR as my isolator.

I'm now using a 70W panel with a cheap Solar Regulator and I position the solar panel in a way that it gets on average probably 6hrs of full sunlight before the panel falls into shade. To date I've found this works well in 1st charging the AUX battery (panel is plugged to the Aux battery via an Anderson plug on the rear of vehicle) then once Aux Battery Volts has risen to the right level the VSR parallels up the MAIN battery and then charges that too...

So far this is working well but I'm unsure if this will/is overcharging the batteries and therefore shortening their life?

Is this method ok or not? I can minimise the sunlight hitting the panel more if required...

[DiscoMick]

I find an 80 watt panel permanently mounted to the roof rack and connected to the starting battery through a PWM regulator eliminates all these problems.
A Defender alternator should sit on a constant 14 volts, I find.

[drivesafe]

Hi Drivesafe...

Just curious here but I did use to have a 10w panel permenantly connected to the 10w solar panel when not driving and I found that it was not enough and the battery failed in the end. My dual battery setup uses dual 140amp VSR as my isolator.

I'm now using a 70W panel with a cheap Solar Regulator and I position the solar panel in a way that it gets on average probably 6hrs of full sunlight before the panel falls into shade. To date I've found this works well in 1st charging the AUX battery (panel is plugged to the Aux battery via an Anderson plug on the rear of vehicle) then once Aux Battery Volts has risen to the right level the VSR parallels up the MAIN battery and then charges that too...

So far this is working well but I'm unsure if this will/is overcharging the batteries and therefore shortening their life?

Is this method ok or not? I can minimise the sunlight hitting the panel more if required...
Hi Rob, and you had a situation that is similar to those using my isolators.

I recommend a solar panel no bigger than 10w for a single battery, but when the setup includes one of my isolators, I then recommend a 20w solar panel.

The bigger panel is to cater for both keeping the batteries topped up, but also replacing the battery energy used, at night, by my isolator.

In your case, even a 20w panel would probably failed short of requirements.

Over the years, I have conducted quite a few tests and as most of my isolators now have a IGNITION/STORAGE mode, where the isolator turns off when battery voltage drops to 127v/12.5v, if this mode is selected, a 20w panel may start to drive the batteries a bit too high.

If you are using one of my isolators, or any other brand, I strongly suggest using a solar panel greater than 20W and using a solar regulator.

This then makes the system fully functional and totally safe.

[Gav 110]

So I had an update. I emailed Exide and explained the situation. They were going to replace them under warranty even thought it was just out of warranty (1 and a bit months). They only have a 1 yr warranty.... Due to COVID19, there was a delay in getting them checked sooner, however the battery issue wasn't detected until my recent trip to Moreton Island (1 week before COVID restrictions).

So Exide stated they would replace them no worries. After I sent a reply email back, Exide then said they didn't look at me email correctly and noticed the batteries were out of warranty and didn't want to know me. I asked them several times if they were aware of a possible bad batch of batteries made and they wouldn't reply to that direct question and continued to say it was out of warranty.

I do understand that out of warranty is out of warranty, even though it was only by just over 1 month. But their attitude in their email completely changed when they said the warranty was over.

I find it stupid how products tend to fail when they fall just outside of their warranty time..... I would have hoped that they might offer good will on the batteries due to movement restrictions and closure of businesses for the last 6 or so weeks.

It is safe to say when I do replace these batteries, I won't be buying Exide ones ever again!

Looks like Yellow Top will be the next 2 bought. Shame about the price of them though [emoji20]

In the mean time, I will just do my best to try to increase the life of the Exide ones.

I’d get back onto exide and tell them you’ve spoken to fair trading and they believe you have a claim
Mention that when you bought the batteries that the cheaper batteries also had a 12 month warranty and when you paid the extra money for their product you would expect that you would get more than 13 months from a premium product

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Warranties%20and%20refunds%20-%20a%20guide%20for%20consumers%20and%20business.pd f

Take a look at page 10(as numbered on pages)

It’s worked for me on more than one occasion
Also, as I run an electrical contracting business, I offer 12 months warranty on installation, if a customer rings me in regard to a problem caused by me or a product “within a reasonable amount of time”, I will warrant the equipment and workmanship
It may have cost me a few dollars but at least I’ll have a return customer who will usually recommend my company to others

Gav

[Robmacca]

Hi Rob, and you had a situation that is similar to those using my isolators.

I recommend a solar panel no bigger than 10w for a single battery, but when the setup includes one of my isolators, I then recommend a 20w solar panel.

The bigger panel is to cater for both keeping the batteries topped up, but also replacing the battery energy used, at night, by my isolator.

In your case, even a 20w panel would probably failed short of requirements.

Over the years, I have conducted quite a few tests and as most of my isolators now have a IGNITION/STORAGE mode, where the isolator turns off when battery voltage drops to 127v/12.5v, if this mode is selected, a 20w panel may start to drive the batteries a bit too high.

If you are using one of my isolators, or any other brand, I strongly suggest using a solar panel greater than 20W and using a solar regulator.

This then makes the system fully functional and totally safe.

Yes, I agree but I've only got a 70w panel and my current thinking is if I place the panel in such a manner that the panel only gets a 4-6hrs per day of sunlight before it falls into shade, I feel that this should be ok for keeping the batteries in good order long term (I'm hoping ;) )

I do adjust the "sun" time depending on the season as well

[drivesafe]

Yes, I agree but I've only got a 70w panel and my current thinking is if I place the panel in such a manner that the panel only gets a 4-6hrs per day of sunlight before it falls into shade, I feel that this should be ok for keeping the batteries in good order long term (I'm hoping ;) )

I do adjust the "sun" time depending on the season as well
Hi again Rob, with a 70w panel, just 1 or 2 hours of full sunlight a day would be more than adequate.

Folks, I have suggested this device many times in many threads, and once again, the use of a BM2, a bluetooth battery monitor, would be idea for anyone wanting to see just how effective the solar charging is.

As long as the voltage does not go over 14.7v during sunny periods, you will get a very good idea of just how effective an UNREGULATED small solar panel can be.

With a REGULATED larger solar panel, you can see how long the panel keeps a constant SAFE charge voltage applied to your batteries.

I have some screen-grabs of graph of solar charging tests, carried out on my Range Rover.

I will need some spare time to dig them out, but I will post them up so people can get a better idea of what happens with solar charging.