TTM - refused to do it this way?

[Lukeis]

I dropped my car off at Bridgestone in winelli - darwin today


argued with me black and blue that he doesn’t need it in tight tolerance mode as he measures it before and after. In no uncertain terms he indicated it was his way or the highway as he does them all the time

I know the first response is to walk away but having had them half do it a week ago I need it finished (something about the other equipment for the camber being busy at the time).

question, are they able to do I without TTM?

[kenl]

I've had one wheel alignment with the car not in TTM and it cost me a pair of tyres. to be fair I never went back to them so don't know if TTM would make any difference. Find out who the local Indi Landrover guy uses and start there.

I put mine in TTM before dropping off the car now, no discussion required,

[Lukeis]

I put mine in TTM before dropping off the car now, no discussion required,

yep, this is the mob recommended by the local LR specialist, he also puts it in TTM.
i did last time I dropped it off, didn’t this time by mistake and walked back five minutes later to do it and that’s when the discussion started

Problem as you suggested is I’ll never know how well it’s done until I burn through the next set of tyres and compare the expected mileage

[justinc]

Sounds like a bit of customer relations needs to be practiced. " How to keep customers coming back and recommending your business " is the first chapter i believe...😒

[Bulletman]

Sounds like a bit of customer relations needs to be practiced. " How to keep customers coming back and recommending your business " is the first chapter i believe...😒

He prolly looked at the interstate plate's Justin , and thought " I wont be seeing this car again " I will take his money once and be in front.

Bulletman

[PerthDisco]

The leading 4WD tyre and alignment shops in WA look at you blankly when TTM is mentioned. I’ve given up asking and to be honest have got full life out of the tyres each times. Just make sure they have done many of them.

[scarry]

Many tyre guys here run them onto the ramps and leave a door open.

They do it this way on all EAS vehicles.

Mine is on its second set of tyres,never had a wheel alignment,and the wear perfectly.

[letherm]

yep, this is the mob recommended by the local LR specialist, he also puts it in TTM.


I'd be contacting the LR specialist and telling him what happened and ask why he recommends them given their attitude to TTM which is actually mentioned in the LR workshop manual.

Martin

[LRD414]

.... question, are they able to do I without TTM? ....
Yes it can be done but there's a higher risk of inaccuracy.
Trying to put myself in your shoes, I would simply go ahead and have it completed at this place.
It's highly likely to be just fine and you can always have it checked and redone when you eventually get back home to someone you trust.

Scott

[101RRS]

If the car has been given a little time to self level on the aligner I dont think not being in TTM makes a lot of difference if any HOWEVER the tech instructions do say it should be in TTM so this should be followed wherever possible.

At my last wheel alignment (after 150,000km) it was measured at onroad height and found to be not perfect but within tolerances. As I drive at onroad height -20mm I wanted it to be aligned at that height - when lowered again the numbers basically did not move - went into TTM and alignment done. I think TTM reduces suspension movement by 10mm (please correct if I am wrong) so in reality if the car has already settled all should be good.

This is a worry though - at a major national tyre place - no not Bob Jane - and saw a D3 getting aligned and asked if they had put it into TTM and they did not know what I was taking about but they new the suspension needed to be locked - so all they did was lock the suspension at Access height and did the alignment [bigsad]. Hmm I wonder how many tyres the owner went through after that.

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

Tight tolerance mode or TTM is just that. It reduces the amount of tolerance allowed (deviation from the set point), and the time, before a height adjustment is made. It ensures that any small adjustments made to the vehicle during alignment that might induce a height change are also accounted for. More importantly though it ensures that the vehicle is immediately levelled on the equipment rather than the typical where it may choose to hold off on a level adjustment because “it’s close enough”.

I simply enable it myself before a wheel alignment and disable once complete. No arguments therefore. I can’t see why he didn’t simply let you enable it. It can’t hurt anything!

[Dagilmo]

i did last time I dropped it off, didn’t this time by mistake and walked back five minutes later to do it and that’s when the discussion started

This doesn't make sense. Why not let you put it into TTM? What does it matter to him? Even if he doesn't agree with it, no skin of his nose!

[Lukeis]

Thinking about the shops responses further and their non negotiable approach to not allowing the TTM, I’m now of the opinion they may be confusing TTM with access mode.

like you pointed out, if they understood it why would they care one way or another if I wanted to put it into TTM, it would make no difference to them.

If I’m right the shame of it is they were just 100% unwilling to even discuss it and hear me out, it was within 20 seconds when he said “if you’d like I’ll bring it back out the front and you can take it somewhere else”

it will be no benefit to me but moreso for any future customers there, if anyone has the section in the workshop manual which says to do TTM I’ll happily email it to them in a friendly way just as a kind of FYI.

[Discodicky]

The leading 4WD tyre and alignment shops in WA look at you blankly when TTM is mentioned. I’ve given up asking and to be honest have got full life out of the tyres each times. Just make sure they have done many of them.

A few years ago I had a W/A done on my 2009 RRS and enquired if they knew about TTM. Reply was that they did but knew how two "allow" for it without actually putting it in TTM. The fella is a very experienced guy and races cars, so understands all about steering geometry etc and I must say after 30,000 odd klms there was no visible wear front or rear.
Back in the 70's and 80's I specialised in servicing Jaguars (and others incl R/Rover) and we were supposed to use a (Jaguar Service Tool) special plate to be jammed under the upper control arms so as to simulate the extra weight of 2 people in car. This supposedly allowed correct camber to be set.
Of course we never bothered about fitting it 'cos we proved over the years that it made not the slightest difference, by watching the camber dials on the W/A machine to see if they'd respond to a camber change after removing the plate.

[PerthDisco]

A few years ago I had a W/A done on my 2009 RRS and enquired if they knew about TTM. Reply was that they did but knew how two "allow" for it without actually putting it in TTM. The fella is a very experienced guy and races cars, so understands all about steering geometry etc and I must say after 30,000 odd klms there was no visible wear front or rear.
Back in the 70's and 80's I specialised in servicing Jaguars (and others incl R/Rover) and we were supposed to use a (Jaguar Service Tool) special plate to be jammed under the upper control arms so as to simulate the extra weight of 2 people in car. This supposedly allowed correct camber to be set.
Of course we never bothered about fitting it 'cos we proved over the years that it made not the slightest difference, by watching the camber dials on the W/A machine to see if they'd respond to a camber change after removing the plate.

Sounds as useful as Radial Tuned Suspension [emoji23]

[INter674]

Sounds as useful as Radial Tuned Suspension [emoji23]

Now now..when I was a lad and a chainman we had Holden S/Ws..all pre RTS. Then we got a HZ wagon with RTS.

Sooo being Council cars we had a race between the old and the new with RTS..up the Ferntree Rd to Mt Wellington..and the RTS wagon killed the old one through the bends. It was noticibly stiffer in the suspension with far less body roll. Still a gutless heap of junk..but better than the old cars that's for sure. Then we got Commodore wagons...not much better but less Titanic like🙄

How did Holden get away with selling such junk back then?😞

[DieselLSE]

if anyone has the section in the workshop manual which says to do TTM I’ll happily email it to them in a friendly way just as a kind of FYI.
Here you go.

I printed this off for my wheel alignment guy and he was genuinely appreciative.

[DiscoDB]

Description of what TTM does from the Gap Diagnostics tool manual.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200512/aa867c5030363727e85d105dc2e46a0d.jpg

What I suspect many alignment places may not realise is setting TTM will actually activate the self leveling function more often if the vehicle is moved as it will aim to maintain +/-3mm tolerance instead of the normal +/-10mm tolerance. Hearing the suspension make small adjustments more often could be off putting for some even though it is working as intended for a wheel alignment.

[Lukeis]

That’s brilliant, thanks guys.

anyone finds themselves in need of a wheel
alignment while in the NT there should be a Bridgestone store with all the information soon ;)

[DiscoDB]

Plus any place that does not or cannot use TTM probably dose not recalibrate the steering angle sensor either which can create other electronic faults later if not correct - especially if the steering is off centre.

[PerthDisco]

Plus any place that does not or cannot use TTM probably dose not recalibrate the steering angle sensor either which can create other electronic faults later if not correct - especially if the steering is off centre.

Guarantee the dealers have not ever heard of that let alone tyre shops.

In reality a tyre shop is never going to have a LR tool capable of these settings as they cover every car brand to be viable. It’s like believing they torque the LCA bolts to LR spec also.

[Tombie]

Guarantee the dealers have not ever heard of that let alone tyre shops.

In reality a tyre shop is never going to have a LR tool capable of these settings as they cover every car brand to be viable. It’s like believing they torque the LCA bolts to LR spec also.

My local shop does [biggrin] I insist (and observe - or do the job myself)[bigwhistle]

[PhilipA]

At my local Jax store, I had a wheel alignment done on my D2.
I asked to look at the specs which were in the computer controlling the wheel aligner.
They showed toe IN and they were insisting that was correct.
I dug out the specs form RAVE and of course they should be toe OUT.
They eventually did it to my specs with all the caveats of this is your worry etc.
75KK later the BFGKOs still have minimum 6MM with a couple at 9 with very little shoulder wear.
I wonder how many D2s with bad shoulder wear have the fronts with toe IN.

Regards PhilipA

[Jetfisher]

I have also had Bridgestone Winnellie do the alignment on my 2010 RRS...they were the recommended aligners even by the (now defunct) Land Rover dealer in Darwin.
and yes they were recommended by the only LR indie in the Top End.
and I have had no problems in 15k. Although I have had good customer service from them.
So even when there was a dealer they could not do it in house. and now with no registered dealer in the Top End when I spoke to LR Australia they even admit they do not know what to do! Welcome to LR ownership in Darwin. Nearest dealers are Cairns or Perth.
Luck there is a good indie and I have trained my mechanic.[bigsmile1]

[gavinwibrow]

I have also had Bridgestone Winnellie do the alignment on my 2010 RRS...they were the recommended aligners even by the (now defunct) Land Rover dealer in Darwin.
and yes they were recommended by the only LR indie in the Top End.
and I have had no problems in 15k. Although I have had good customer service from them.
So even when there was a dealer they could not do it in house. and now with no registered dealer in the Top End when I spoke to LR Australia they even admit they do not know what to do! Welcome to LR ownership in Darwin. Nearest dealers are Cairns or Perth.
Luck there is a good indie and I have trained my mechanic.[bigsmile1]


Can you advise who the Indie is please - have interested LR owner heading up that way.

[Bulletman]

Can you advise who the Indie is please - have interested LR owner heading up that way.

Leigh - LR Automotive NT 89843252 . Nightcliff ,cant miss him , there's always about 20 L/R's parked next to his workshop. I believe he may even now be the JLR warranty centre in Darwin

Bulletman

[Odysseyman]

Leigh - LR Automotive NT 89843252 . Nightcliff ,cant miss him , there's always about 20 L/R's parked next to his workshop. I believe he may even now be the JLR warranty centre in Darwin

Bulletman

We had our D4 serviced there last year when we were in Darwin, after going across the Savannah Way. Really nice guy, lots of knowledge and a good communicator. Charged $330 labour (approx 2 hours) for a full service and check up, plus parts.
cheers
David

[Jetfisher]

Yes that's him, the local LR Indie.
My usual mechanic is Danny Probert at Darwin Auto Mobile Car Bishop Street, not a LR expert but a couple of us have been training him and he is good mates with Leigh and they share information all the time on LR issues.... its Darwin after all. Danny races cars, in particular a drift XD Falcon, and is a brilliant mechanic and machinist.