Series I restoration (rivets)

[Harry S]

Hi All,
First time poster[bighmmm]...
I'm currently restoring my 1956 series I and am looking to buy the rivets needed to put the car back together, I want to use the original ones and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with doing this?
Looking online at rivets to purchase there are 6 options:

Solid round head rivets
Solid flat head
solid counter sunk
semi tubular
PoP (assuming these weren't used on originals)
Bifurcated

If anyone knows the difference between when and where these where used in the original build it would be greatly appreciated as i would like to keep it as original as possible!
Any general advice/experience anyone has would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers

[gromit]

Not 100% sure what was used where but I have an unrestored '56 you could check out.

Mostly round head on bodywork.
Semi tubular on the roof and door seals.
There are some bifurcated on door seals, can't remember which ones I'd have to look.
Bonnet rubbing strip uses bifurcated in copper or brass.

I don't recall flat head or countersunk being used but I just use my Series I I'm not restoring it so haven't looked in detail at every rivet.

You can source rivets from here Rivets and Riveting Tools (https://www.bits4landys.co.uk/rivets/rivets-tools.htm)
I did source bifurcated copper rivets for the bonnet strip from the UK years ago, I'd have to try and remember where from. Most you can source locally are copper plated steel so they will eventually rust.

For the semi tubular rivets you really need a proper closing tool. Tracked them down in the USA at reasonable cost because I was looking at re-rivetting a Series III roof but never got round to ordering. It would be possible to make something to do the job.
For the round head rivets I already had some rivet sets then sourced some tools for an air chisel, not exactly the correct shape but close enough or I could let them down (soften them) then re-harden once I'd modified the shape.

I did recently replace the door skins on some Series II doors and used round head rivets (round the door handle opening). Rivet set held in the vice, door skin with rivet in place located on rivet set (skin held by the young bloke) then I flattened off the other side of the rivet with a hammer. Easy when one side is just flattened rather than round head both sides......

If you need genuine sample rivets I have some acquired from a gentleman who worked at Regent Motors assembling the CKD Land Rovers. He must have left every night with a few in his pocket !

Best of luck,


Colin

[1950landy]

I made a tool for doing the solid round headed rivets . PM sent & sorry about sending one twice.
161114

[100inch]

https://up.picr.de/38581922dp.jpg
I just purchased a rivet tool kit from within OZ. The only issue (read lack of time for research) is the correct tool. There are standards like AN470, 530 or 354 for rivet heads which make selection easy. If anyone figured the correct spec I would be grateful too! I m

[101RRS]

You can buy packs of rivets from the UK that have all the different types that you need.

Try the Series 1 Club in the UK and I am sure they can point you in the right direction if you are a rivet counter [bigrolf]

Login (http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php?action=unread)

Garry

[gromit]

I just purchased a rivet tool kit from within OZ. The only issue (read lack of time for research) is the correct tool. There are standards like AN470, 530 or 354 for rivet heads which make selection easy. If anyone figured the correct spec I would be grateful too! I m

AN470 & 530 seem to be American military standards for rivet head styles. MS & AN Rivets | Rivets In Stock (https://rivetsinstock.com/rivets/ms-sn-rivets.html)

There is a British Standard Sapphire Products - BS 641: 1951 Small Solid Imperial Rivets for General Engineering Purposes (http://www.sapphireproducts.co.uk/bs641.htm)

Easiest to source from a UK supplier that has tracked down the correct profile rivets, link in post#2. You may have to make or modify a tool for the air chisel, standard rivet snaps are available for use with a hammer.


If the rivets are round head both sides you need a dolly that matches the round head profile, the kit you have looks like the dollys are flat. You need to clip the rivets to the correct length so that there is just the right amount of material to form the head.
Also using an air chisel is possibly a two man job, certainly easier with one person on the dolly while the other concentrates on setting the rivet (I think Americans call it bucking) and making sure the head is correctly formed.

The tool 1950landy made is closer to what they would have used in the factory except theirs would have been hydraulically (or pneumatically) squeezed, I'm looking at making something similar to squeeze the semi-tubular rivets for the roof on my Series III unless I decide to buy the correct tool from the US.


Colin

[1950landy]

AN470 & 530 seem to be American military standards for rivet head styles. MS & AN Rivets | Rivets In Stock (https://rivetsinstock.com/rivets/ms-sn-rivets.html)

There is a British Standard Sapphire Products - BS 641: 1951 Small Solid Imperial Rivets for General Engineering Purposes (http://www.sapphireproducts.co.uk/bs641.htm)

Easiest to source from a UK supplier that has tracked down the correct profile rivets, link in post#2. You may have to make or modify a tool for the air chisel, standard rivet snaps are available for use with a hammer.


If the rivets are round head both sides you need a dolly that matches the round head profile, the kit you have looks like the dollys are flat. You need to clip the rivets to the correct length so that there is just the right amount of material to form the head.
Also using an air chisel is possibly a two man job, certainly easier with one person on the dolly while the other concentrates on setting the rivet (I think Americans call it bucking) and making sure the head is correctly formed.

The tool 1950landy made is closer to what they would have used in the factory except theirs would have been hydraulically (or pneumatically) squeezed, I'm looking at making something similar to squeeze the semi-tubular rivets for the roof on my Series III unless I decide to buy the correct tool from the US.


Colin

I have sent you a PM
Wayne

[100inch]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the standards. I got a tool coming but all rivets I removed had flat bottoms so I take they used a flat dolly. Was looking at hydraulic tools but didn't find any with enough reach for the bonnet. m

[gromit]

I have sent you a PM
Wayne

Thanks Wayne.
I have a new Record G-clamp I was looking at modifying. Just need to ensure it has enough reach.
With the rivets being soft I'm not sure you even need to harden the dies, I was going to make them from Silver Steel and harden them.


Hi Colin,

Thanks for the standards. I got a tool coming but all rivets I removed had flat bottoms so I take they used a flat dolly. Was looking at hydraulic tools but didn't find any with enough reach for the bonnet. m

I had to tighten the rivets that hold the lower brackets for the grille on a Series III. I was surprised at how little force was needed to compress the aluminium rivet so an air tool may be OTT.
I made a small tool to support the rivet head & clamped with Mole grips (similar to Visegrips).

I was sure there are a couple of places where the rivet is round headed both sides......

If the underneath of the bonnet rivets are flat then all you need is a vice with plenty of space around it and a rivet snap which is what I did with the Series II doors.
Snap held in the vice, rivet in upside down bonnet located in snap, hit the rivet with a hammer (you do need an assistant for this).


Colin