diesel lpg conversions

[dobbo]

Hi the other day whilst at the 4x4 show I saw a company advertising LPG conversions on Diesels costs ranging from 3 - 6 thousand dollars. According to the salesman there is a vast improvement in fuel economy and up to 30% increase in torque. He had three vehicles on display a Defender TDi, A patrol 4.2 and a current model f150 v8 diesel. Now these vehicles have one thing in common all of their engines are fairly basic low tech mechanical diesels. It may have been just a coinsidence but the first thing I thought of was what is wrong with this fuel running in a high tech electronically controlled diesel engine such as a TD5, TD6 ,TDv6 or a mitsubishi DID. I know busses have been running these set ups for years but have not heard much about them of recent years. Does anyone know how they are still going, any drawbacks , advantages , experiences perhaps.

[Outlaw]

Try this site for some info... they've got specs there on a 300tdi
http://www.dieselgas.com.au/

[bluetongue]

Make a search in the forums (or the old ones www.our4wd.com (http://www.our4wd.com)) for "dieselgas"... plenty of information to be found from those...

Scott

[p38arover]

Hi the other day whilst at the 4x4 show I saw a company advertising LPG conversions on Diesels costs ranging from 3 - 6 thousand dollars. According to the salesman there is a vast improvement in fuel economy and up to 30% increase in torque. He had three vehicles on display a Defender TDi, A patrol 4.2 and a current model f150 v8 diesel..

Which 4WD show?

Ron

[George130]

They were happy to do the TD5's. Only reason I havn't done it yet is the $$$.

[dobbo]

Which 4WD show?

Ron


Maitland last weekend gone 25, 26, 27/5/06

[LandyAndy]

Hi Dobbo
They only inject a small amount of LPG into the intake manifold.
It works so well as the LPG acts as a catylst that enables the diesel engine to burn 100% of the diesel injected.
Most diesels can only burn 75% to 85% of the fuel injected depending on atmospheric conditions.
The computer wouldnt even know the LPG is there and would go about its job as per usual.
The main problem is if you abuse all that new found power you are pushing the motor/drivetrain well beyond its design parameters and something will break.
A TD5 with a chip/larger intercooler/ chip upgrade and LPG fumigation,a flyer no doubt.But also a hand grenade if you thrash it too much,how much is the million dollar question????
Andrew

[damo]

I think the worst thing you would get with a TD5, is sending the auto box into 'limp home' mode if it thinks it's getting too much torque. If your manual, no problem. When it comes to fitting it to a vehicle like a Pajero DiD, the question is 'what the hell are you doing in one of those anyway?'

[discoute]

LPG to a diesel is like NOS to a petrol engine. to much and kabang.

glen

[chunk]

lpg injected diesels have been around since world war 2 where they were used because of the shortage of fuel. the technolagy died off in the fifties before making a minor come back in the early eighties. lpg and nos injection is completly different nos is a sudden shot of gas into a petrol engine to make it go faster and lpg/diesel is a constantly measured supply of gas and fuel into an engine to make the fuel burn more efficently hence you get better fuel economy. and if you want to see a diesel engine go bang wash your finer filter in petrol and it will blow the head through your bonnet, i've seen it happen on a rodeo.

[JDNSW]

lpg injected diesels have been around since world war 2 where they were used because of the shortage of fuel. the technolagy died off in the fifties before making a minor come back in the early eighties. lpg and nos injection is completly different nos is a sudden shot of gas into a petrol engine to make it go faster and lpg/diesel is a constantly measured supply of gas and fuel into an engine to make the fuel burn more efficently hence you get better fuel economy. and if you want to see a diesel engine go bang wash your finer filter in petrol and it will blow the head through your bonnet, i've seen it happen on a rodeo.
1. Nitrous Oxide in a petrol engine effectively supplies additional oxygen - to the extent that Nitrous Oxide replaces normal air in the intake, the proportion of oxygen is raised from 20% to 50% allowing additional fuel to be burnt for the same intake volume. Refined as a technique for getting addditional emergency power from fighter plane engines during WW2, when if you did not get the extra performance the engine (and plane and pilot) were going to be destroyed anyway, so a high risk of serious engine damage was acceptable.

2. In the 1960s I was living in Roma when the local power station converted to natural gas - They retained the same engines, the main equipment being two 1000hp straight eights diesels standing about twelve feet above the floor. They were run with the injectors at idling quantity and the governor controlling the amount of natural gas entering the inlet manifold, so that almost all the power came from the gas.

The rest of the powerhouse looked like a museum of power generation, with progressively bigger motors from about 100hp up, all except the above diesels being spark ignition engines designed to run on gas, actually producer gas from timber that was a byproduct of land clearing in the district from the 1930's on.
John

[bk]

I have heard that because of the greater efficiency in the burn, the gasses are much hotter and without hardend valves, .. there is the possibility of components being adversly effected. The trucks get away with using dieselgas because they are designed from scratch for it.

[damo]

Dosen't get hot enough to do any damage. Trucks aren't designed for dual fuel and I think you'll find most if not all truck heads have hardened valve seats. Look at this web page www.dieselgas.com.au

[crash]

From what I have read regarding fitting LPG to Diesel that it can prolong engine life. It is very normal for unburnt diesel to pass into the exhaust where it continues to burn. Lpg reduces this and actually drops the exhaust gas temperature (EGR).
I also read an article in a trucking magazine that one company took too identical trucks one was on LPG the other wasnot. After 250,000k the engines were stripped and the one on LPG was in better nick. (I do realise that there are many other factors that influence longevity of engines) This was conducted by an independant trucking company not associated with the LPG conversion company.
m2c

[Outlaw]

I've just picked up today the 4X4 Australia Complete Towing Guide which has a vehicle comparison with 5 mid-size diesels including the disco... and a 4 page story on Gas injection... haven't had time to read yet but will scan and post tonight.

[p38arover]

I had a look inside the inlet and exhaust manifolds today of a Defender that had been converted to LPG fumigation last year (dunno the km). The inlet and exhaust manifolds were really quite clean.

Ron

[Outlaw]

Here's the story which i still haven't had a chance to read ;)

Page 1 (http://www.visioncentral.org/aulro/story1.jpg)
Page 2 (http://www.visioncentral.org/aulro/story2.jpg)
Page 3 (http://www.visioncentral.org/aulro/story3.jpg)
Page 4 (http://www.visioncentral.org/aulro/story4.jpg)