The mass debate - I am sure it's been had before

[PeterJ]

Anyway, sometimes perhaps it's better to leave sleeping dogs, or something like that, but I blame covid, too much time to ponder things.

I recently decided to put in a set of drawers in the cargo area, so, out with the third row of seats ( -36kg) and in with the drawers (+46.7kg) but it got me thinking about the state of things and just what is the mass of the vehicle and all the "must take" things that seem to find a home inside the 5 doors.

The local S&M place provided the first shock, (that's sand and metal for those of you who are acronym challenged), Front axle 1440, Total 2830 and by furious fingers and toes Rear axle 1390kg. Yep, a bit of a shock, I was expecting a fair bit less. that is a Kerb value (Driver + Full fuel tank) but still a far cry from the spec sheet. The car is detailed below but at the front there is an OL bar, 2 lights and second battery with associated hardware. When you consider the front axle maximum is 1450kg, I am at the limit. How does a winch work with these numbers. Wheels & tyres, GOE 18" and 255/60 R18 at 30.3kg each not a lot in it over the standard 20" with 255/50 R20 (yet to measure them) I would have thought. Other than that, a NAV screen, TPMS, CB and the already mentioned drawers, not a whole lot. If GVM is 3240 then I have 410kg to play with, (for the moment let's ignore the extra 100kg on GVM you are allowed if towing @ <100kph) lets say 200kg towball load from the van, most of which will end up on the rear axle and the remaining 200kg distributed in the cargo area and 2nd seat, opps, yeah the other half as well in the front, fortunately she doesn't read the forum or weigh much but I now have 140kg, so.........

The stuff that gets a ride, recovery kit = 18kg, Air compressor = 12kg, Tool roll = 15kg, First aid box = 3kg, fridge (empty) = 22kg, when we travel with the van we have an inflatable boat and electric motor = 65kg, also take a water tank = 10kg and 80L of water = 80kg, roof platform = 40kg and sometimes spare fuel...........not necessarily all of this stuff every trip all of the time but I think I will quit while I am behind.

Consulting the owners handbook, GVM = 3240, Front Axle = 1450, Rear Axle = 1855 (for my car), and because every ones car is different I am not going to get out the calculator here, it's just a discussion after all, but you can see not a pretty sight.

So then I pondered the things I have previously considered, like fitting the winch that sits on the shelf in the shed, or for a while a long range fuel tank, never mind the fuel mass and it just doesn't add up, just food for thought.

Peter

[Tombie]

I’ll see if I can drop my 4 onto the steelworks weigh bridge.
I’ll let you know....

It will likely make you feel a bit better [emoji23]

[p38arover]

See my post: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/211281-lighten-load.html#post2281577

See also:

GVM Question Again (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/259921-gvm-question-again.html)

[Tombie]

Ok. Just got back from the weigh bridge.

Current configuration of vehicle:
Prospeed Roof rack
Rear Ladder
Tres Recovery boards
Awning
Roof light bar and 42” Led bar
Bullbar and winch (synthetic rope)
Driving lights
265/60-18 AT3W on Simmons Alloys
Sliders (Steel)
Full length underbelly armour
Long Range Tank with 10l
Main tank Full
Wheel carrier
Child seat
Radio UHF
Tow hitch in bar
3 batteries (2 aux)
Safari Snorkel
Internal roof cage


And my arse sitting in it

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/0266edd133d95362bdb95c5948854949.plist

[gavinwibrow]

Ok. Just got back from the weigh bridge.

Current configuration of vehicle:
Prospeed Roof rack
Awning
Roof light bar and 42” Led bar
Bullbar and winch (synthetic rope)
Driving lights
265/60-18 AT3W on Simmons Alloys
Sliders (Steel)
Full length underbelly armour
Long Range Tank with 10l
Main tank Full
Wheel carrier
Child seat
Radio UHF
Tow hitch in bar

And my arse sitting in it




I'm near as damnit the same for my 2.7L D4
Runva winch/dyneema rope, ARB front bar, roof rack (since partially removed), 170L diesel, rear wheel carrier, CB and tools (under 100kgm), Mitch hitch and receiver, Traxide 160 (with yellow top since replaced), 285/60-18 697s on LR alloys, partial underbody armour, rock sliders, ATF metal pan, front sheepskins, HD LR rubber floor mats throughout, Safari snorkel and rear ladder.

I recall I was within 50 kgm of the max for front axle. In order to pull the van and take the boss with me on the northern trip mid/late last year, I then removed the middle seats "to be sure, to be sure" before taking off.

[PeterJ]

Given the spec of your car I think that's pretty good.

[Tombie]

Oh heck, forgot some kit. I’ll edit my post


Yeah - fill my Aux tank and GVM is done.
I have an Engineer looking at a GVM upgrade using Armoured D4 parts.

[DiscoDB]

Oh heck, forgot some kit. I’ll edit my post


Yeah - fill my Aux tank and GVM is done.
I have an Engineer looking at a GVM upgrade using Armoured D4 parts.

Just don’t forget Parkinson’s Law equally applies to work, sheds, and GVM. Your car’s contents will expand so as to take up all the available load carrying capacity.

I would ditch the awning, the child seat, and just pack a carry on bag when going away........ [emoji13]

[PeterJ]

Ohhhhhhh the shed, the shed, don't get me started on the shed[emoji31]

[scarry]

Oh heck, forgot some kit. I’ll edit my post


Yeah - fill my Aux tank and GVM is done.
I have an Engineer looking at a GVM upgrade using Armoured D4 parts.

Just duck down to ARB with an open cheque book,i am sure they will sort it for you....[thumbsupbig][bigrolf][bighmmm]

[Tombie]

Just duck down to ARB with an open cheque book,i am sure they will sort it for you....[thumbsupbig][bigrolf][bighmmm]

I’ll do it myself. The local ARB and I have a really good relationship spanning a couple of decades so I’m well looked after but wouldn’t use them for this sort of thing that’s for sure.

Compliance of the D2 wasn’t too bad when I did that, so this change shouldn’t be too hard to get approved.

I did some work for ARB on the LTRs for Defenders back in the day, as well as working with the OME team to change the specs of their springs for them to a more suitable set up. Was a great experience.

Off topic further - their swag that I purchased 6 years ago had the webbing to the carry loop fail a few weeks ago. I now have a shiny new Swag [emoji41] that’s great product back up.

[Tombie]

Ohhhhhhh the shed, the shed, don't get me started on the shed[emoji31]

Tell me about it. I believe mine may have a floor somewhere.

[scarry]

Off topic further - their swag that I purchased 6 years ago had the webbing to the carry loop fail a few weeks ago. I now have a shiny new Swag [emoji41] that’s great product back up.

Following on,one of my brothers recently took back a faulty ARB tyre guage and a perished hose line that came with an ARB air compresser,both around 10 yrs old.

They replaced both no questions asked.

Yes fantastic customer service.

[Aussie Jeepster]

I weighed my D3 a while ago, and when I got home, I started to add all my extra gear to the weight I had.
Couldn't understand why I was so overweight!!!
Then I realised, I had weighed it with everything in!!!! DOH!
I was about 60kg under on the back and about 80kg under for the front, and I now have an Army No5 trailer which all my camping gear lives in, so the Disco weights are fine.

[cripesamighty]

Oh heck, forgot some kit. I’ll edit my post


Yeah - fill my Aux tank and GVM is done.
I have an Engineer looking at a GVM upgrade using Armoured D4 parts.


A couple of years ago I sent those guys an email asking about what bits were required to do a GVM upgrade on my D3 and a rough price.
In the reply I received they tried to talk me out of it. I have been too busy to look back into it, but it's still on my to-do list though!

[DiscoMick]

Anyway, sometimes perhaps it's better to leave sleeping dogs, or something like that, but I blame covid, too much time to ponder things.

I recently decided to put in a set of drawers in the cargo area, so, out with the third row of seats ( -36kg) and in with the drawers (+46.7kg) but it got me thinking about the state of things and just what is the mass of the vehicle and all the "must take" things that seem to find a home inside the 5 doors.

The local S&M place provided the first shock, (that's sand and metal for those of you who are acronym challenged), Front axle 1440, Total 2830 and by furious fingers and toes Rear axle 1390kg. Yep, a bit of a shock, I was expecting a fair bit less. that is a Kerb value (Driver + Full fuel tank) but still a far cry from the spec sheet. The car is detailed below but at the front there is an OL bar, 2 lights and second battery with associated hardware. When you consider the front axle maximum is 1450kg, I am at the limit. How does a winch work with these numbers. Wheels & tyres, GOE 18" and 255/60 R18 at 30.3kg each not a lot in it over the standard 20" with 255/50 R20 (yet to measure them) I would have thought. Other than that, a NAV screen, TPMS, CB and the already mentioned drawers, not a whole lot. If GVM is 3240 then I have 410kg to play with, (for the moment let's ignore the extra 100kg on GVM you are allowed if towing @ <100kph) lets say 200kg towball load from the van, most of which will end up on the rear axle and the remaining 200kg distributed in the cargo area and 2nd seat, opps, yeah the other half as well in the front, fortunately she doesn't read the forum or weigh much but I now have 140kg, so.........

The stuff that gets a ride, recovery kit = 18kg, Air compressor = 12kg, Tool roll = 15kg, First aid box = 3kg, fridge (empty) = 22kg, when we travel with the van we have an inflatable boat and electric motor = 65kg, also take a water tank = 10kg and 80L of water = 80kg, roof platform = 40kg and sometimes spare fuel...........not necessarily all of this stuff every trip all of the time but I think I will quit while I am behind.

Consulting the owners handbook, GVM = 3240, Front Axle = 1450, Rear Axle = 1855 (for my car), and because every ones car is different I am not going to get out the calculator here, it's just a discussion after all, but you can see not a pretty sight.

So then I pondered the things I have previously considered, like fitting the winch that sits on the shelf in the shed, or for a while a long range fuel tank, never mind the fuel mass and it just doesn't add up, just food for thought.

PeterThose drawers sound a bit heavy. My ORS aluminium ones are a lot lighter than that.
What vehicle do you have BTW?

[PeterJ]

I have a Dec 2013 D4 HSE V6. The drawers and frame are aluminium, a few odd hardware bits made from steel but not much and the I specifically looked for light ones, certainly much lighter than the steel version, they are 900x900. Didn't see your brand, but too late now.

[Tombie]

Those drawers sound a bit heavy. My ORS aluminium ones are a lot lighter than that.
What vehicle do you have BTW?

Different set ups in a Def vs D4.
Twice the slides, more metal.

ORS list as below
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/9a22d9df03bc5865f91bc29e657a6a86.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/7b808a3c5310662f347ac4f0a70fd85e.png

[INter674]

Interesting how the laws can be got around by modding the GVM GCM b 4 rego. SIL's boss chopped a 200s after rego and had to do all the GVM uograde handling and safety tests..inc on a closed race track. Took him 12 months to sort the rego and cost @ 10k.

His new 200s chop will be upgraded b 4 rego with a Lovells kit to GVM @ 4t and GCM of over 9t ..I think😞...anyway waay more than standard. More than his now sold truck and No safety swerve or braking tests required..and tow weight will be 4t.

Edit: I checked and the Lovells kit he's using is more than what they usually supply..and chassis strengthening is done during the chop. Lovells effectively take responsibility for the safety aspects as a secondary manufacturer.


Mmm..

[W&KO]

Interesting how the laws can be got around by modding the GVM GCM b 4 rego. SIL's boss chopped a 200s after rego and had to do all the handling and safety tests..inc on a closed race track. Took him 12 months to sort the rego and cost @ 10k.

His new 200s chop will be upgraded b 4 rego with a Lovells kit to GVM well over 4t and GCM of over 9t ..I think[emoji20]...anyway waay more than standard. More than his now sold truck and No safety swerve or braking tests required..and tow weight will be 4t.

Mmm..

The companies authorized to do the upgrades upgrades prior to rego have done the required testing on one modified vehicle. No need to test each vehicle they from than on.

Plenty of 200’s getting stretched with GVM upgraded to 4500 and 4500 towing.

I guess there is a big rush before the 300 arrived.

[W&KO]

Agree with the OP, easy to give the GVM a nudge.

And the only way to really know is on a weigh bridge.

But most put the head in the sand and don’t want to know.

[INter674]

The companies authorized to do the upgrades upgrades prior to rego have done the required testing on one modified vehicle. No need to test each vehicle they from than on.

Plenty of 200’s getting stretched with GVM upgraded to 4500 and 4500 towing.

I guess there is a big rush before the 300 arrived.

Correct..I also understand that the mod industry is expecting that such up grades will be regulated more closely in future.

[scarry]

Correct..I also understand that the mod industry is expecting that such up grades will be regulated more closely in future.

Its pretty obvious the regulators have no idea what they are doing or how to regulate the industry.

Even the rubbish the Qld govt came up with about 6 months ago turned into another great debacle.

Oh well,lets see what happens next[biggrin]

[INter674]

Its pretty obvious the regulators have no idea what they are doing or how to regulate the industry.

Even the rubbish the Qld govt came up with about 6 months ago turned into another great debacle.

Oh well,lets see what happens next[biggrin]

SILs boss reckons the motor manufacturers reps are working hard to eliminate the after market industry..bit like they did to stop many grey imports with Julia Gillard ..thanks Toyota..and look at the rubbish they are peddling re after market trays atm.. nothing less than total market domination will satisfy their needs😐


https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Chassis-safety-warning&ved=2ahUKEwiQmoHZy9fpAhUQILcAHdHbDmoQFjABegQIDRAG&usg=AOvVaw1QddpCjom1r2mdlOeUBFIT

[DiscoMick]

Different set ups in a Def vs D4.
Twice the slides, more metal.

ORS list as below
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/9a22d9df03bc5865f91bc29e657a6a86.pnghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/7b808a3c5310662f347ac4f0a70fd85e.pngYes, 26kg for an aluminium single drawer in a Defender vs 45kg for a double drawer in a Disco 3-4, a significant difference. My BIL has a Kings dual drawer steel set in his 80 which are also about 45kg.

On GVM upgrades for 200s, I bought the latest 4 x 4 Australia which has a feature on two 200s turned into 6 x 6s and the GVM upgrades are massive.
Interestingly, they took them both to NE Tassie and both vehicles broke their propshafts.

Interesting story.

[scarry]

SILs boss reckons the motor manufacturers reps are working hard to eliminate the after market industry..bit like they did to stop many grey imports with Julia Gillard ..thanks Toyota..and look at the rubbish they are peddling re after market trays atm.. nothing less than total market domination will satisfy their needs😐


https://www.google.com/url'sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.racq.com.au/Living/Articles/Chassis-safety-warning&ved=2ahUKEwiQmoHZy9fpAhUQILcAHdHbDmoQFjABegQIDRAG&usg=AOvVaw1QddpCjom1r2mdlOeUBFIT

Even McGovern or whatever his name is, said that about the new Defender.

Dreaming isn't he.[bighmmm]

Just wait until ARB get hold of one[thumbsupbig]

Manufacturers need to stick with what they know,that is building and flogging vehicles.

Leave the aftermarket guys to continue in the field they are professionals at,which will continue no matter what vehicle manufacturers try and do.

Ute trays may need a look at if the don't comply.