Possible gearbox or transfer problem need help diagnose it

[Landy74]

Need some help as new to the L320 have and still own older per computerized models here goes I pick up the car as a replacement for my just written off disco 1. It had the standard special features not available and wouldn't go into low range as I thought and research could be because the old owners had never used it which they hadn't I was going to look at and in to it this weekend. Famous last words.... The car drove and change gears like a dream up shifting and down shifting like a dream auto transmission should the car has 268630km on it, the transmission was rebuilt at 235223 and had a stand alone cooler fitted done by one of the better transmission shops in Townsville they did fit the upgraded trans pan and filter but I have already ordered it. The car has not been used for heavy towing.
While I was driving it home from work on Friday towing a empty horse float the gearbox showed no hesitation at all, the car went in to gearbox fault mode I pulled over turned the car off and back on again the car wouldn't move in drive or reverse but the f symbol on the dash was gone. I disconnected the battery while waiting for the tow truck half hour later reconnected it and still no drive but the hi and low range and terrain features now work which the didn't before . As I disconnected the pos side of the battery this set off a heap of codes on reconnection.

Today I finally had time to hook up the IIDtool and recorded the mass off codes the ones I can recreate are
U040368(08) in the vehicle dynamic
U0155-87(6D) in the transmission
P183A-00(28) and P2711-00(28) in the transfer
And last but not least a
P080600(2F) but only once got this code
I have recalibrate the transfer hand brake ECT with the IIDtool and I still have no drive it almost feel like an wound up transfer case. It feel like it wants to drive but feels bound and won't move forward or reverse but will in neutral lurch forward a little bit no drive it never had any slippage or vibrations and behaved like to two year old gearbox should. I should also say the car has been regularly serviced by the land rover specialist mechanic in Townsville

If any one can point me in the right direction to working this out or helping to diagnosis the problem thanks in advance

Kynan

[Landy74]

If I've missed you might think will help in the diagnosis just ask and I will do my best to get the information so I can get it worked out and fixed
Kynan

[Graeme]

Possible causes are a broken CV joint, broken front or rear diff, broken drive between the gearbox and the transfer case or the transfer case is stuck between high and low range.

Engage rock crawl with the steering straight ahead and try to move off. If there is no drive to the transfer case or the transfer case is in neutral then the vehicle wont move but if it moves then its either a broken CV joint or diff.

[Landy74]

Possible causes are a broken CV joint, broken front or rear diff, broken drive between the gearbox and the transfer case or the transfer case is stuck between high and low range.

Engage rock crawl with the steering straight ahead and try to move off. If there is no drive to the transfer case or the transfer case is in neutral then the vehicle wont move but if it moves then its either a broken CV joint or diff.

Thanks for that Graeme
Having worked on and shattered a few diffs and cv over the years i have found that there is normally a bit of movement and noise when trying to move the car their is none and was non when the gear box went into F mode but I will look as I have been caught out over the years at work and have been made to look like a twit when I have gotten another mechanic to help me diagnosis something.
As for the transfer being in neutral is engine behaves like it is driving under load but no movement I had already had it in low and on rock crawl as you asked but got the same result the engine loads up but no movement I will try and manually move the transfer to high and low but the actuator is coming up as working normally now but wasn't working before this happened and I think that then only way to check if it's the output shaft is to remove the transfer from the transmission. I will try and drop the transfer oil out today to see if it sheds some light on wear to look. The thing that I find complexing is once it F coded I was able to drive it at reduced speed for about 800m till I could safely pull over and it didn't make any abnormal noises at any stage

[Graeme]

The gbox o/p shaft to tcase input doesn't receive lubrication, just fitted with specific grease during assembly. If the grease has dried then the splines fret eventually slipping. Unfortunately a new gbox o/p shaft and tcase input shaft (or another tcase) are required.

[Landy74]

I will be keeping an eye out for that considering that the gearbox was only rebuilt two years ago it make me think if it was greased up when it was rebuilt. Will have to look at the receipt from the people that did the work.

[Keijo]

Hi Landy,
I agree with what the others are saying and with your approach.
The only other suggestion I would make, is that check your battery is 100% before you do anything else.
My experience with batteries is that they can fail without notice and in many different ways. It might test OK with no load but drop it's bundle when loaded. Internal shorts can even take out one cell intermittently. etc etc.
A dodgy battery can give you all sort of codes and put your truck into all sorts of modes, so at least eliminate this possibility.
Good luck and cheers mate.

[Landy74]

Hi Landy,
I agree with what the others are saying and with your approach.
The only other suggestion I would make, is that check your battery is 100% before you do anything else.
My experience with batteries is that they can fail without notice and in many different ways. It might test OK with no load but drop it's bundle when loaded. Internal shorts can even take out one cell intermittently. etc etc.
A dodgy battery can give you all sort of codes and put your truck into all sorts of modes, so at least eliminate this possibility.
Good luck and cheers mate.


Thanks for that I will take it in to work and test it. The battery is almost two years old and with the heat up here it is quite common for them to only last about that time frame. It's still cranking it over fine so it will be interesting to see what it load tests.

[Landy74]

Hi all I took the battery into work this morning was on the boarder off needing to be replaced grabbed a new one. Ducked home at lunch put it the car and no change. It still wants to move in drive and neutral only but not it the gears its meant too. looks like I will be pulling the gearbox out for the next few nights....

Just a thought will the gearbox behave like that if it is a bit low on oil as that one thing I haven't checked yet

[loanrangie]

Hi all I took the battery into work this morning was on the boarder off needing to be replaced grabbed a new one. Ducked home at lunch put it the car and no change. It still wants to move in drive and neutral only but not it the gears its meant too. looks like I will be pulling the gearbox out for the next few nights....

Just a thought will the gearbox behave like that if it is a bit low on oil as that one thing I haven't checked yetYes, fluid level would be one of my first checks.

[Landy74]

Have done a fluid change and filter as well didn't find any metal just a bit dirty as you would hopeI reset the valves on the computer. Filled it at the right temp and level Still no drive the software is up to date.the torque converter is staying open and the clutch packes aren't getting any pressure when in any gears it doesn't want to hunt in park anymore. The pump is working fine as I was able to fill the gearbox with the same amount of oil as I got out I'm starting to really think that it a wiring fault is their any way I can lock the tour converter up with the IIDtool to test it or is their a manual way to test it. Or is it simply a case of put another one in, it was replaced when it was rebuilt so I don't think it's the problem more likely the valve body or electronic i.e wiring harness as it was just pushed up on top of the gearbox when it was refitted after the rebuild.....any thoughts from anyone are greatly appreciated at this stage.

[Graeme]

Using Sport mode, does the selected gear show in the instrument cluster?

Can you change between high and low range and back again?

[Landy74]

Using Sport mode, does the selected gear show in the instrument cluster?

Can you change between high and low range and back again?

Thanks for getting back to me the answers is yes low range and special features still work and in sport mode the gear selected show on the instrument cluster

[Graeme]

I was thinking that if the transfer case is changing then its input shaft is turning, but not necessarily so. However that the gears are showing in the display makes me think its a failed gbox to TC spline, only proven by removing the TC.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the gbox clutches weren't operating?

[Landy74]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the gbox clutches weren't operating?


Thanks Graeme I was running live data on the gearbox I ran it on everything from the torque converter to oil pump whatever it would give me data on both of my computers on it a snap-on running the newest up dates and IID control tool by Gap latest update as well.

In all my years on working and playing on cars when a shaft spline or coupling fails I have always herd some type of noise when it happened or during testing of it and their isn't any that I can hear by ear or with a mechanic stethoscope

[Graeme]

If no faults are recorded by the gbox then I very much doubt that there is a problem with the gbox internals or any of the electrical circuits between the gbox and the rest of the vehicle. The gbox in my D4 produced lots of faults when clutches didn't lock within their allowed very short times.

If clutches aren't being operated then it sounds as though the gbox electronics must be waiting for some condition to occur, which if the splines are stripped then the free-spinning o/p shaft that won't be causing any load to be registered combined with the vehicle not moving might be the culprit, although this is probably unlikely.

If the front and rear tail-shafts are detached from the TC flanges or possibly even just one then you might feel attempted drive at the flanges even if the splines are stripped. Alternatively with one tail-shaft disconnected and the TC in high range, turn the detached flange to feel/listen for whether the gbox is also being turned or not.

[Landy74]

Hi all

had a bit of a win

Cleaned up all off the electronic connections on the gearbox, transfer and the ones around the battery and CPUs for the transfer that are behind the battery which two of the connectors had medium crosion on them and so did the CPU they cleaned up to a good standard.
I jumped in and gave it a test no change but when I started to go though the off road settings and the high and low selector switches and running through the gears and sport mode their was a big bang and a screeching noise.
I was in neutral when I clicked it in to drive the noise stopped and it moved forward under power and same in reverse but when it is in neutral or park it now makes a noise like (straight cut gears) noise but drives I ran it up and down the street for a little bit but not fast enough to go up and down in gears .
After a but more head scratching checking wireing and cleaning the gearbox and transfer connectors again it still is makeing the same noises the into F mode but I can't get any codes to come up.... I have even loosened of the gear selector cable incase it was out off adjustment and causing it.
So some type of win and fail, anyone has any ideas on the new development was as am a bit puzzled by the new noises but an still thinking something inside the gear box but how it was before this all started doesn't fit with this either

Thanks
Kynan

[Landy74]

Bit more off a win drove it a little bit last night after I updated the software for the box and transfer gear changes are slower than before but that could be the software re learning it will go into F when ever I select reverse which has me stumped. But if I stop the car and turn it off and the on again it resets and the gearbox in back to normal so to speak.

I will do another filter and oil change on the weekend to see if I get anything out of it I am still not game enough to drive it more than a couple of blocked from home

Has anyone any ideas why it would be going in to F mode when ever I select reverse and not show any codes it would be a big help

Thanks
Kynan

[Graeme]

Has the IIDtool been set to show all fault codes? IIRC as supplied it doesn't show all faults.

[Landy74]

Has the IIDtool been set to show all fault codes? IIRC as supplied it doesn't show all faults.

I have it set to show all pending and fault codes. Should I have it set for any more.if so what ones should I click in the advance menu

[Graeme]

Mine has failed, pending and confirmed ticked.

[Landy74]

Mine has failed, pending and confirmed ticked.

Thanks Graeme
Went for a drive around the block a few times tonight went into F mode about 6 times and went back to normal when restarting the car was doing live data recording while driving the car at about 45 to 50 km it would go from third all the way up to sixth gear then F mode.

It is still F mode when in reverse gear hope it helps someone to help me figure this out am starting to think about buying another gear box then sending this one in to be rebuilt as my other car has finally been written off so have almost run out of time to sort this out as I need to start daily driving it sooner rather than latter.

Here are the codes I haven't looked them up yet.

Regards
Kynan

162151

[Graeme]

Unfortunately that sounds too similar to what happened to my D4's gbox which was the demise of the white-metal stator bushes causing insufficient pressure to lock the E clutch quickly enough, with the first indication not successfully engaging 6th gear, although no other problems initially. P0735 was one of mine's codes although P2704 was the prime indication of the worn bushes so perhaps a different problem.

[Landy74]

Thanks for that
Had a better run today got the same codes as last night. Running in auto it still playing up all the time but could only get to 60 km. But drives a lot better in sport mode and only goes in to F mode when I was stopped at the lights so pretty sure it the value body that's playing up from what I could see running live data on the gear box and the feel of the car when it's trying to chang gears. I still have a nagging feeling it could be the CPU in the box but it getting lower in the thought process.
so that leads to the next question is does anyone make a valve body it. If so wear is the best place to get it and has anyone used it and how did it work out?

Regards. Kynan

[Graeme]

I'd be getting the opinion of a ZF specialist who should quickly establish the real cause unless they have the attitude of just rebuild the gearbox regardless.

[Landy74]

Just a quick up date, finally got the car in to the only shop in town that has been recommended to me (he is in high demand and only takes the work he wants) from the two land rover specialist shops in the area that I trust he is going to test the car but thinks I was on the right track so looks like it a new value body unit, as the two speed sensor are built in to the control module and aren't a serviceable part and the valve body is more than likely damage even if only miner from when it locked up, will do it up and keep it for spare. But will know in a day or two when he gets around to testing it and looking in side it