A couple of QR locos lying down (for a rest? )

[87County]

At Kankool a couple of Aurizon's bankers must have needed a rest161808
161809


been quite disruptive for the day actually, runaway apparently

[drivesafe]

Hi and have you got any more details.

It's unusual to see them on the inside of a curve, especially there?

[rick130]

Is that the spur line/siding for the quarry or the main line?

[87County]

Hi and have you got any more details.

It's unusual to see them on the inside of a curve, especially there?

Info a bit thin for me atm but ...

Camber could be an issue. It is difficult to imagine that that any crew could have done this on purpose. Electronic control is needed for braking in many modern locos.

There are derailers at Kankool that could be activated by control if in fact it was an out-of-control runaway, in which case the track could be quite damaged.

[87County]

Is that the spur line/siding for the quarry or the main line?

That is indeed the Main North further down at Kankool,way below the Ardglen quarry Rick! Evidently they built up a bit to much runaway speed for the 50kph curve, thankfully no one badly injured.

Interesting that the locos separated at the coupling, and there is nothing on local news

[drivesafe]

That looks like it is just below where Kankool loop use to be.

My first official job as an acting driver was over that section of track.

I prepped two 442 class locos in Werris Ck depot, run them out into the yard and coupled on to two more 442 class, heading a wheat train.

I worked to four header train up and over the Liverpool Range, to Murrurundi, where I detached the front two 442s and then worked them light engine back to the Creek, via that location.

I my day there was a crossing loop and maned signal box at Kankool and it was one of the worst places to have to cross another train at.

All trains and light engines heading down the hill, had to go into the loop and wait for trains coming up the hill.

This was done to save stopping a loaded train trying to climb the hill, as it was near impossible to lift a train from a standing start on that section of the hill.

The problem was that it was a steep decent into the loop and you had catch points at the other end to stop you from running into an oncoming train if you couldn’t stop.

Trains were bad enough but trying to stop light engines, with their pathetic brakes, was worse.

[87County]

Interesting snippets of history there Tim, thank you.

Of course there is no signal box there any more. Both PN and QR have bankers stationed in their own sidings just south of Willow Tree these days ready to add their many thousands of hp to assist shoving 8000+ tons of train up and over the hill.

In the good ol' days you could leave the bank engines at Willow Tree station and walk over to the pub for a meal, alas no more with the sidings well out of town.

This is QR's pair, it will be interesting to see if they're repaired or replaced because they're required 24/7 for the coal trains to Newcastle.

[drivesafe]

I received some additional info on the mishap this morning, form a mate in the area.

The crew reported brake failure before they derailed and both were unharmed but the cab on the rear unit was pretty badly damaged and I have a couple more photos at track side.

I can’t see at least one of these locos being back in service anytime soon.

[rick130]

That is indeed the Main North further down at Kankool,way below the Ardglen quarry Rick! Evidently they built up a bit to much runaway speed for the 50kph curve, thankfully no one badly injured.

Interesting that the locos separated at the coupling, and there is nothing on local news

Ta, I was trying to get my head around which bit of track that was.
I think I've worked it out now.

[drivesafe]

I just received this from a mate.


The ATSB is investigating the loss of control and derailment of banking locomotives 5031 and 5034 near Kankool, New South Wales (NSW), on 3 June 2020.
The two Aurizon locomotives had finished banking a train up a hill and were on the return journey back to Chilcotts Creek. At 1948, the train driver advised the network controller that they had lost brakes. Following this, the locomotives started accelerating down the hill. As they negotiated a series of curves, both locomotives derailed onto the Down side of the single bi-directional track.
The locomotives separated and came to rest on their sides. The two crew climbed out of the locomotive cab and were later transported to hospital by ambulance. They sustained minor injuries and were released from hospital later that night. A Fire and Rescue NSW Hazmat service attended to contain a diesel fuel leak.
This investigation is being led by the NSW Office of Transport Safety Investigations (OTSI). OTSI conducts rail investigations in NSW on behalf of the ATSB under the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003. Investigators have commenced collecting evidence from involved parties.
Should any safety critical information be discovered at any time during the investigation, the ATSB will immediately notify operators and regulators so appropriate and timely safety action can be taken.
A final report will be published at the conclusion of the investigation.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

So how do two modern loco's lose brakes?

[drivesafe]

So how do two modern loco's lose brakes?
A very good question and I can’t wait for the findings to be made public.

[oldyella 76]

Bit of a mistery. The independent brake valve may have been cut out, but the brakes should have applied by an automatic application and why was the dynamic brake not used if that class has one. No 3 hose bag between loco’s could have come undone, flexible hose to the brake cylinder may have ruptured, still one would think that there would be enough air to at least slow them down even though light engines. In my day years ago l spent six years firing before passing my drs ticket and reading some reports from the ATSB I think there is a lack of experience in a lot of these accidents.
Lindsay

[drivesafe]

Hi folks and I just received a preliminary report and apparently the air failed, thus no brakes and with no air, Dynamic braking will not work.

The reason they were laying on the inside of the curve was because they had actually derail on the outside of the last opposite curve and slide to a stop where they were.

Must have been one hairy ride?

[Blknight.aus]

I thought that trains used a similar (conceptually) system to trucks, as the air drops off the brakes begin to apply automatically.

[RANDLOVER]

Interesting snippets of history there Tim, thank you.

Of course there is no signal box there any more. Both PN and QR have bankers stationed in their own sidings just south of Willow Tree these days ready to add their many thousands of hp to assist shoving 8000+ tons of train up and over the hill.

In the good ol' days you could leave the bank engines at Willow Tree station and walk over to the pub for a meal, alas no more with the sidings well out of town.

This is QR's pair, it will be interesting to see if they're repaired or replaced because they're required 24/7 for the coal trains to Newcastle.

I think they work out of Werris Creek nowadays (
A railway station opened at Werris Creek in 1878, and was moved to its present location in 1880.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werris_Creek#cite_note-7)
The heritage listed Werris Creek station building, built in the late 1880s, was designed by the famed NSW railway engineer John Whitton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Whitton)
. The Australian Railway Monument
was recently[when? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Chronological_items)]
opened near the station and part of the station building has been opened as a railway museum. Werris Creek railway station - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werris_Creek_railway_station) ).


A mate I spent 10 days in and around Quirindi, Werris Creek, Willow Tree a few years ago watching and filming them use two extra loco's to push the trains over the hill, which is amazing to watch. One day we

almost got locked in the grain yard there, as the guys didn't realise we were down by the tracks so went home and locked the gates, luckily we found a back gate to a dirt road, otherwise I was going to have to see

if the D2 would climb over the ballast and tracks of the grain siding to get around a fence.

Coming down the range I think they have a runoff area for trains at the 1st road crossing before the old abandoned Willow Tree station IIRC, which also seemed to be their marker for disengaging the helper locomotives.

[drivesafe]

I thought that trains used a similar (conceptually) system to trucks, as the air drops off the brakes begin to apply automatically.
Hi Dave and while in both cases, trucks and trains, when a breakaway occurs, the brakes are automatically applied when the air is released by the breakaway.

But this is achieved in different ways.

On a truck, the trailer brakes are spring loaded and requires air to release them.

On railway cars, freight wagons and passenger cars, there is a brake cylinder which is a double sided piston.

When a locomotive first couples to a train and the air is connected ( called the Train Line ), the air in the brake cylinders “pumps up” through one side of the piston and at the same time air runs through a valve to the other side of the piston.

Once the brake cylinders are pumped up and equalised, the brake are now in the released position.

If the driver wants to apply the brakes, he reduces the pressure in the “Train Line” and this reduces the pressure on one side of the brake cylinder piston on each bogie throughout the train.

With the pressure in other side of each brake cylinder piston being higher, the brakes are applied. The more air pressure you release from the Train Line, the harder the brakes are applied.

If a breakaway occurs, you get a total release of the Train Line air pressure, which causes an emergency application of the brake in the entire train.

If a breakaway does occur, you have around 20 minutes to go and wind on hand brakes, because, unlike truck trailers, where their brakes remain on till air is reapplied, train brakes will eventually “leak off”.

The locomotive brake system is different in that it needs air to apply the brakes. Something similar to you putting your foot on your brake peddle.

And just like in your vehicle, if you run out of brake fluid, no brakes. With a locomotive, if you run out of air again, no brakes.

But there is an additional outcome when a locomotive runs out of air.

When you first start a locomotive, the electrics used to drive the locomotive are automatically disabled until there is sufficient Brake Pipe pressure to apply the brakes if needed.

Once the brake pipe pressure reaches the minimum need to apply the brakes, the electrics can be controlled.

But the reverse is also the case, where if the brake pipe pressure drops below the minimum safe level, the electrics are automatically disabled, and unfortunately, this includes disabling Dynamic Braking.

So as I posted above, that crew must of had one hairy ride.

[drivesafe]

Not sure if this will work but here is the PDF with the initial findings.162834

[4bee]

" Quick fellers, out with the Grease Guns & let's not waste the opportunity".

I also wondered how come they landed on the inside of the curve? Is there no centrifugal force around that way?



Curious. [bighmmm]

[Blknight.aus]

Hi Dave and while in both cases, trucks and trains, when a breakaway occurs, the brakes are automatically applied when the air is released by the breakaway.

But this is achieved in different ways.

On a truck, the trailer brakes are spring loaded and requires air to release them.

On railway cars, freight wagons and passenger cars, there is a brake cylinder which is a double sided piston.

When a locomotive first couples to a train and the air is connected ( called the Train Line ), the air in the brake cylinders “pumps up” through one side of the piston and at the same time air runs through a valve to the other side of the piston.

Once the brake cylinders are pumped up and equalised, the brake are now in the released position.

If the driver wants to apply the brakes, he reduces the pressure in the “Train Line” and this reduces the pressure on one side of the brake cylinder piston on each bogie throughout the train.

With the pressure in other side of each brake cylinder piston being higher, the brakes are applied. The more air pressure you release from the Train Line, the harder the brakes are applied.

If a breakaway occurs, you get a total release of the Train Line air pressure, which causes an emergency application of the brake in the entire train.

If a breakaway does occur, you have around 20 minutes to go and wind on hand brakes, because, unlike truck trailers, where their brakes remain on till air is reapplied, train brakes will eventually “leak off”.

The locomotive brake system is different in that it needs air to apply the brakes. Something similar to you putting your foot on your brake peddle.

And just like in your vehicle, if you run out of brake fluid, no brakes. With a locomotive, if you run out of air again, no brakes.

But there is an additional outcome when a locomotive runs out of air.

When you first start a locomotive, the electrics used to drive the locomotive are automatically disabled until there is sufficient Brake Pipe pressure to apply the brakes if needed.

Once the brake pipe pressure reaches the minimum need to apply the brakes, the electrics can be controlled.

But the reverse is also the case, where if the brake pipe pressure drops below the minimum safe level, the electrics are automatically disabled, and unfortunately, this includes disabling Dynamic Braking.

So as I posted above, that crew must of had one hairy ride.

cheers, sounds like an overly complicated system...

mind you some of the new safety protocol junk thats coming down line with Air ABS trailers is a nightmare and if you get it just wrong you wind up with a trailer that wont brake while it has air pressure in the tanks, which is a problem because the park brake release charges those tanks....

[Scouse]

Recovery video (turn it down):
Aurizon 5034 removed for derailed site 15 16 JULY 2020 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg9tIU6VmQA&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2fqRMVdoGjm0IJMJVolQ2CVrD1Y-xSsyvaiofEJTWDoS5_sITngj4ij0Q)