High KMS - Transfer case...

[gotaflat]

Ok

I have high (very high) kms 2011 Disco v 3.0 SDV6

G box looks like it needs serious surgery - although we could not a get a fault on the day and drove ok (never thrown a fault code - but occasionally does not find a gear), it a bit sad a slow on the changes and does like to thud a little on slow down in low gears at slow speed. Driving with a reputable gear box mechanic in Perth he did suggest the transfer box might be culprit for the drive line slop and 'thud' or harshness (if that the way to describe it).

Anyway - quick one - is the transfer case a re build? new one? - what am i up for on this if the g box comes out?

Cheers

PS 323,000kms [bighmmm]

[loanrangie]

Have you tried calibrating the transfer ?

[justinc]

The transfer case input splines and the gearbox output splines wear very badly, some have even stripped out.

[DiscoJeffster]

Ok

I have high (very high) kms 2011 Disco v 3.0 SDV6

G box looks like it needs serious surgery - although we could not a get a fault on the day and drove ok (never thrown a fault code - but occasionally does not find a gear), it a bit sad a slow on the changes and does like to thud a little on slow down in low gears at slow speed. Driving with a reputable gear box mechanic in Perth he did suggest the transfer box might be culprit for the drive line slop and 'thud' or harshness (if that the way to describe it).

Anyway - quick one - is the transfer case a re build? new one? - what am i up for on this if the g box comes out?

Cheers

PS 323,000kms [bighmmm]

Your gearbox symptoms are similar to mine. I’m going to rebuild the valve block to try and get extra life from it before I get it fully rebuilt (if I can avoid that even better).

[gotaflat]

Your gearbox symptoms are similar to mine. I’m going to rebuild the valve block to try and get extra life from it before I get it fully rebuilt (if I can avoid that even better).

Yep. Think I read you post .
I was thinking the same .. but time will be and issue for me (and technical skills) [emoji51]

[gotaflat]

Have you tried calibrating the transfer ?

Hmm no . IID tool to do ?

[gotaflat]

The transfer case input splines and the gearbox output splines wear very badly, some have even stripped out.

So this is the thud in drive line? Assume new or re build possible ?

[justinc]

So this is the thud in drive line? Assume new or re build possible ?

Yes, but rebuild of both the gearbox and the transfer case will be required, the gearbox output splines are part of the rear clutch output assembly, only a total disassembly of the gearbox will fix that...

[rar110]

My 6hp26 output shaft spline and D295 transfer case input spline failed at about 240,000km, mainly due to a lack of any lube. I was lucky enough to pick up a used trans & TC. Here are some pics of my old trans & TC.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200607/b22813128ca610143250f5248d05b36a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200607/f8e2d64a1939f29cf9db7c728e0b0d7b.jpg

[PerthDisco]

My 6hp26 output shaft spline and D295 transfer case input spline failed at about 340,000km, mainly due to a lack of any lube. I was lucky enough to pick up a used trans & TC. Here are some pics of my old trans & TC.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200607/b22813128ca610143250f5248d05b36a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200607/f8e2d64a1939f29cf9db7c728e0b0d7b.jpg

In terms of hours how long does a shop take to split these items if you wanted to relube?

[rar110]

In terms of hours how long does a shop take to split these items if you wanted to relube?

Harlie on here recently took his TC out himself and even replaced that TC worn spline (shaft). So he would have a better idea. It looks to me like the TC wouldn’t need to be fully removed to just apply lube.

The mechanic who installed my replacement trans/TC split them to relube (pre-fitting), but was already lubed. It was a low km trans, so maybe they start life that way.

I’m sure JC could advise.

[justinc]

In terms of hours how long does a shop take to split these items if you wanted to relube?

Transfer case unbolt and remove/ refit is more time in a 3.0 than a 2.7, roughly 3 to 4 hours.

[Eric SDV6SE]

What sort of lube? Lithium grease or HP bearing grease? How would lubricating it prolong life? Appears that a splined fit like that shouldn’t allow much relative play until it’s too late and then no amount of lube will help.

I’m tempted to drop my Transfer Case out for a looksee after 200,000km...

[rar110]

Corrected typo above, my spline failed at 240,000km.

I really think it’s worth checking spline every 100,000km. More so because in 6hp26 if output spline fails its going to mean a trans rebuild costing $7k plus.

[Graeme]

What sort of lube? Lithium grease or HP bearing grease?A small syringe of the particular grease is available from LR as a spare part. It appears to be a lithium based grease but may have particular additives.
The splines are not press fit so there is movement and therefore lubrication is required.

Edit: Part# IYX500050 - Anti-sieze Montagepaste on the label on the tube.

https://www.itwpf.com.au/molybond-lubricants/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2016/09/9_tds.pdf

[INter674]

Prolly a stupid idea but ..could a hole be drilled such that lubrucant could be applied to the componants externally?

I'm not familiar with the set up but in patrols there's effectively a sealed cavity thst could be filled or accessed to do the same..not that patrols need it.

[Graeme]

There's no useful cavity as both of the housings are flush-faced.

I intend having mine's TC removed and the splines re-greased to at least know that the splines are properly lubricated. The LR kit includes an O-ring which I assume is used to seal the splines.

[DieselLSE]

There's no useful cavity as both of the housings are flush-faced.

I intend having mine's TC removed and the splines re-greased to at least know that the splines are properly lubricated. The LR kit includes an O-ring which I assume is used to seal the splines.
Graeme, is there a service bulletin covering this? I'm wondering how often or at what mileage it should be checked. The fact that Landrover produces a kit tends to indicate that it is a known service issue.

[justinc]

Graeme, is there a service bulletin covering this? I'm wondering how often or at what mileage it should be checked. The fact that Landrover produces a kit tends to indicate that it is a known service issue.

Kidding right??? They won't do anything to prevent this during the life of the vehicle, same as puma spud shafts and Lt77/ r380 output splines...

[Eric SDV6SE]

A small syringe of the particular grease is available from LR as a spare part. It appears to be a lithium based grease but may have particular additives.
The splines are not press fit so there is movement and therefore lubrication is required.

Edit: Part# IYX500050 - Anti-sieze Montagepaste on the label on the tube.

https://www.itwpf.com.au/molybond-lubricants/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2016/09/9_tds.pdf

Also available at Blackwoods and via Collins Industrial Supplies

[justinc]

Every one I do, gets a slop of Castrol Moly grease. Or if I've run out, nickel antiseize

[DieselLSE]

Every one I do, gets a slop of Castrol Moly grease. Or if I've run out, nickel antiseize
This just begs the question: At what time/mileage, or under what conditions, does the original lubrication dry up or become ineffective? Should it be something you need to attend to at, say, each drive belt replacement time?

[gotaflat]

Every one I do, gets a slop of Castrol Moly grease. Or if I've run out, nickel antiseize

SO how often you pulling the TC off? I am assuming its to late for mine - and lube wont fix it? Or is it a case of pull it an see?

Assume input just the input and out put or all internals? just asking a re build is $$ ?

Bit disappointing this has not been done or suggest to me before by Dealer (cough) or Indi i use
.

[gotaflat]

This just begs the question: At what time/mileage, or under what conditions, does the original lubrication dry up or become ineffective? Should it be something you need to attend to at, say, each drive belt replacement time?

yep - good question.

[INter674]

Sheeze..another thing to worry about...I won't tell the missus @ this one. Just as well we've got the hoist now and I'm retired..just gotta get the patrols off it one day🙄

[rar110]

Replacing the D295 Magna Steyr TC shaft doesn’t sound too complicated.

Replacing the 6hp26 output shaft means emptying the housing as it’s about the last part to come out. So a rebuild, and so may as well replace with new parts.

[justinc]

There is not much you can do, the splines wear pretty evenly, so both wear about the same rate. My 5L40E in my 2006 td6 was worn badly, when the trans got rebuilt at 185k it was replaced. I am not too concerned with the 6hp26/28, they will usually last out to when the gearbox requires a rebuild at the 250 to 300k mark. My TDv8 has done 166k now, no noticeable backlash.
Most of the ones I see, all have dried grease and reasonable amounts of wear, some are bad, some not.
I would only suggest pulling the case to check etc on lowish km units, as the cost can get to almost $900.

[Graeme]

The local mechanic who R&R'd my D4's gbox when it need to be rebuilt fitted the new seal to the TC input shaft too far in which allowed oil to escape. He then R&R's the TC to fit another new seal in an afternoon. I will ask for a price to do the L322 as it has done 125K which I consider about the right time for preventative maintenance.

[Eric SDV6SE]

199,876km, i think ill have a go at removing the transfer case, regrease the splines. What could possibly go wrong?.....

Can someone tell me the prop shaft bolt settings please, and if theyre the same for both front and rear shafts.

Thanks in advance.

[PerthDisco]

There is not much you can do, the splines wear pretty evenly, so both wear about the same rate. My 5L40E in my 2006 td6 was worn badly, when the trans got rebuilt at 185k it was replaced. I am not too concerned with the 6hp26/28, they will usually last out to when the gearbox requires a rebuild at the 250 to 300k mark. My TDv8 has done 166k now, no noticeable backlash.
Most of the ones I see, all have dried grease and reasonable amounts of wear, some are bad, some not.
I would only suggest pulling the case to check etc on lowish km units, as the cost can get to almost $900.

Are your gearbox life predictions on a ‘sealed for life’ maintenance basis or oil changed every 80k kms basis? Towing/no towing?

[rar110]

Fluid changes are not relevant to this problem, which occurs outside or the other side of the rear seal. Very easy take off and so less impact on the splines would probably help but I’m not sure
Whether towing would aggravate the problem.

Graeme, I would be very interested to hear how your 8hp output splines look. I’ve only read about this issue applying to 6hp transmissions.

[PerthDisco]

Fluid changes are not relevant to this problem, which occurs outside or the other side of the rear seal. Very easy take off and so less impact on the splines would probably help but I’m not sure
Whether towing would aggravate the problem.

Graeme, I would be very interested to hear how your 8hp output splines look. I’ve only read about this issue applying to 6hp transmissions.

Yep but what JC is saying is that the gearbox will need rebuilding anyways around the kms the splines wear out at 250k-300k kms.

[Graeme]

The TC part number was superseded for all MY11 L322 and for some or all MY11 D4, with Microcat showing a starting MY11 VIN BA567766 which could be the start of MY11 D4s and the part number has been superseded several more times since. I wonder what improvements have been incorporated.

[Tote]

When my transmission failed to proceed at ~130,000 KM the transfer case was also replaced as the coupling was severely worn. 2007 D3. It didn't look like it had ever had any lube on it from new.

Regards,
Tote

[gotaflat]

ok,

so G box re build - 7.5 k
TC another 1k?

I will get it pulled with G box out and see how we go - suspect the re build coming.

bit depressing But then again 325,000k.

[Tote]

A couple of pictures of my output spline and transfer case from 2011. The vehicle had ~130,0000KM on it and was a March 2008 delivery. I'm dubious that there was ever any lube in there.


161908

161909

Regards,
Tote

[Graeme]

Having discussed the task with the local mechanic who R&R'd the D4 gbox, I now only have to decide whether its worth paying $50 for the LR grease and O-ring kit or just use moly grease without fitting a new o-ring.

[gotaflat]

Having discussed the task with the local mechanic who R&R'd the D4 gbox, I now only have to decide whether its worth paying $50 for the LR grease and O-ring kit or just use moly grease without fitting a new o-ring.

you have to pull the tc out right? or can do with out total extraction to get lube in?
$50 for an o ring - i would book that (but assume pulling out)?

[Graeme]

Yes, unbolt the TC from the gbox and at least move it back far enough to clean the splines.
Effectively $50 to have a new O-ring on hand if its needed.

[gotaflat]

ok,

so G box re build - 7.5 k
TC another 1k?

I will get it pulled with G box out and see how we go - suspect the re build coming.

bit depressing But then again 325,000k.

but quoted $3,500 to do TC re build !

[DiscoJeffster]

but quoted $3,500 to do TC re build !

I’d be willing to try that myself but access to parts would be my challenge

[Tote]

Rimmer Bros do a reco box for $2700.00. Mine came out of the UK as an "exchange" but no core return was required. Discovery 3 L319 2005-09 Transfer Boxes | Rimmer Bros (https://rimmerbros.com/ItemList--Discovery-3-Transfer-Boxes--m-15478)

Regards,
Tote

[Graeme]

TC overhaul should be easy enough, similar to but less parts than a manual gearbox, providing you have a way to support it during removal & refitting.

[justinc]

TC overhaul should be easy enough, similar to but less parts than a manual gearbox, providing you have a way to support it during removal & refitting.

They aren't difficult. Quite a simple set up and easy to disassemble/ reassemble

[Eric SDV6SE]

Rimmer Bros do a reco box for $2700.00. Mine came out of the UK as an "exchange" but no core return was required. Discovery 3 L319 2005-09 Transfer Boxes | Rimmer Bros (https://rimmerbros.com/ItemList--Discovery-3-Transfer-Boxes--m-15478)

Regards,
Tote

Am checking if Rimmer Bros or any of the other uk parts suppliers supply just the o-ring. Will use std molybond grease.
Edit: kit *Ring & Grease Kit - IYX500050 - Genuine but no delivery to AUS.

[Tote]

LR Direct do it IYX500050 | O Ring - Land Rover Part IYX500050 (https://www.lrdirect.com/IYX500050-O-Ring/?keep_https=yes) but its probably no cheaper than from the local dealer once you add freight

Regards,
Tote

[PerthDisco]

They aren't difficult. Quite a simple set up and easy to disassemble/ reassemble

Surely the bearings would all be standard easily sourced at a local bearing shop?

[DiscoJeffster]

My experience recently has been the local dealers pricing for parts being far more reasonable and as said, aligned to the UK price for most things when freight is included. I’m fact, one part was half the price than the best I could do from the UK.

[justinc]

Surely the bearings would all be standard easily sourced at a local bearing shop?

Just get the overhaul kit. You need more than just bearings...

[gotaflat]

Just get the overhaul kit. You need more than just bearings...

Overhaul kit has all the chains/shafts etc? I thought just bearings and seals?

[Graeme]

Am checking if Rimmer Bros or any of the other uk parts suppliers supply just the o-ring.I'll be measuring the new O-ring before handing it over to the mechanic assuming that I buy the kit.

[justinc]

Overhaul kit has all the chains/shafts etc? I thought just bearings and seals?

Bearings, seals and snap rings. IIRC one of the bearings is not very common... whole kit around $340

[justinc]

That o ring isn't for the d3/4 etc. The same kit with syringe and o ring Is for the non modified L322 front diff coupling. That original splined coupling uses the o ring, and the same grease syringe. Just happens to be supplied with the grease for d3/4 etc. It's not originally in there, nor is there anywhere to fit it.

[DieselLSE]

Bearings, seals and snap rings. IIRC one of the bearings is not very common... whole kit around $340
Hi Justin, you may have missed a question I was hoping you could answer a couple of pages ago:
At what time/mileage, or under what conditions, does the original lubrication dry up or become ineffective? Should it be something you need to attend to at, say, each drive belt replacement time?

[justinc]

Graeme, I have a few of the syringes of grease if you want one, but personally I'd use Moly grease. And to add to my last post, that SAME grease and o ring kit is supplied with the puma spud shaft repair kit. Again, no o ring in those either.

[justinc]

Hi Justin, you may have missed a question I was hoping you could answer a couple of pages ago:
At what time/mileage, or under what conditions, does the original lubrication dry up or become ineffective? Should it be something you need to attend to at, say, each drive belt replacement time?

Sorry, yes forgot to add the reply.

The original lube is A) insufficient in volume, and B) effected by heat and goes hard.
Every one I have removed is like it, some as low as 100k. However, the beginning of spline degradation is dependent on load, driving style, heat, and probably other factors , too.

Maybe at the 120k major service, or every 7 to 9 years at Timing belt change, like you suggest, would be a good time.

[rar110]

Here is a link to a supplier and parts diagram, which was posted on FFRR forum. The shaft is numbered 9 on the diagram.

https://jpat.co.uk/uploads/1/0/3/5/103549764/2018landroveritcpla.pdf

[PerthDisco]

Sorry, yes forgot to add the reply.

The original lube is A) insufficient in volume, and B) effected by heat and goes hard.
Every one I have removed is like it, some as low as 100k. However, the beginning of spline degradation is dependent on load, driving style, heat, and probably other factors , too.

Maybe at the 120k major service, or every 7 to 9 years at Timing belt change, like you suggest, would be a good time.

Yes towing and engine hp tunes would be a big factor to accelerate wear on the ‘weakest link’ in the transmission chain I think.

[INter674]

Hey JC...you should be doing You Tube vids of these procedures..like Juice Motors..and making cash for comment😎

Kids are telling me how much these You Tubers earn... I nearly hit the floor..no wonder jokers like 4wd 24-7 do what they do...son's mate worked for them for a while..they didn't pay him of much of course..but they were/are making heaps.

Get on board the gravey train JC😉

Our loss could be your gain☺

[Graeme]

Yes towing and engine hp tunes would be a big factor to accelerate wear on the ‘weakest link’ in the transmission chain I think.I would expect on/off throttle to be the main culprit and therefore worse for manual gboxes, not that there'd be many of those. Once loaded the wear should be minimal.

[DiscoJeffster]

I would expect on/off throttle to be the main culprit and therefore worse for manual gboxes, not that there'd be many of those. Once loaded the wear should be minimal.

So I did some research. Generally the main wear comes from micro misalignment between the two shafts. Very fractional misalignment accelerates wear plus there is obviously slight slip available so the shafts can be inserted within each other to facilitate assembly etc. With the loss of the protective lubricant wear will accelerate. Splines are a common wear point however they’re normally designed to last the standard service life.

I agree that unload and reload of torque against the box would cause more movement of the two components whereas towing and constant load less so. I’d have said aggressive high-load city driving would be the worst for joint damage but I have no actual evidence to back that up.

[josh.huber]

Mate has a hoist. I'll pull my transfer next Friday and have a look. My transfer is sloppy. But I'm hoping it's not spline wear..

I don't think it's spline as when you hold the front shafts and rotate the rear. I takes a while indicating wear between those two components. Well at least I hope so.

Another alternative to the moly grease is brake caliper slide grease. I use the Bendix ceremasil. A big tube last a long time. I use it on shafts on boats etc. When doing clutches.

[josh.huber]

Just confirmed the part numbers of the spare I have in the shed. It's the same. So I'll be changing it. Better do some reading on hot tips for new players. I think I read a top bolt requires beer and swear words

[justinc]

Just confirmed the part numbers of the spare I have in the shed. It's the same. So I'll be changing it. Better do some reading on hot tips for new players. I think I read a top bolt requires beer and swear words

Easy with the right tool 😊

[gotaflat]

Easy with the right tool 😊

this one?
161974

[justinc]

this one?
161974

I use a short offset combination ring open ender, and lever up from underneath to crack it loose. Then a short ratchet ring spanner and fingers

[josh.huber]

When you say offset Justin. Do you mean offset like a old sidchrome double ring or like a C spanner.

I've got a set of "s" and "C" spanners but for the life of me can't find them. I better go buy some more.

Does the stubby ratchet need a flex head?

[justinc]

When you say offset Justin. Do you mean offset like a old sidchrome double ring or like a C spanner.

I've got a set of "s" and "C" spanners but for the life of me can't find them. I better go buy some more.

Does the stubby ratchet need a flex head?

Even one of these, in 13mm, would be fine


Repco Stubby Stubby Ratchet Wrench 18mm - RTGWS18 - Repco | Repco Australia (https://www.repco.com.au/en/tools-equipment/hand-tools/spanners-wrenches/repco-stubby-stubby-ratchet-wrench-18mm-rtgws18/p/A9444137?rgfeed=true&cid=google-shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiYL3BRDVARIsAF9E4GeseUIZb1FchDm2PFf-Gss8NBAExbmaJmJ1PeV5ouZpXDmWrr4UUYIaAjnfEALw_wcB)

[josh.huber]

Even one of these, in 13mm, would be fine


Repco Stubby Stubby Ratchet Wrench 18mm - RTGWS18 - Repco | Repco Australia (https://www.repco.com.au/en/tools-equipment/hand-tools/spanners-wrenches/repco-stubby-stubby-ratchet-wrench-18mm-rtgws18/p/A9444137?rgfeed=true&cid=google-shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=Cj0KCQjwiYL3BRDVARIsAF9E4GeseUIZb1FchDm2PFf-Gss8NBAExbmaJmJ1PeV5ouZpXDmWrr4UUYIaAjnfEALw_wcB)

Legend thanks

[fredd63]

From the pictures, it seems that the shaft and splines are rusty, which would accelerate wear. As preventive maintenance, would be worth cleaning them, using a penetrating oil and then using a high temp grease. I assume the o ring is there to keep water out and to keep lubricant in.

[Graeme]

JC has stated that the o-ring is not applicable to this application. The grease in the kit is a moly grease with anti-seize properties which might be suitable to LR's initial use of the kit on a tail-shaft spine but not particularly suitable for this application.

The original grease will be cleaned from mine, assuming that there was some, then a liberal coating of moly grease applied.

[josh.huber]

My replacement TC has room for one. Looks like an older model then the one I've got fitted. The oring looks to be 2x40mm.

[justinc]

From the pictures, it seems that the shaft and splines are rusty, which would accelerate wear. As preventive maintenance, would be worth cleaning them, using a penetrating oil and then using a high temp grease. I assume the o ring is there to keep water out and to keep lubricant in.

Tbey don't have an O ring

[justinc]

My replacement TC has room for one. Looks like an older model then the one I've got fitted. The oring looks to be 2x40mm.

Not seen an Oring, nor evidence of one, on any that I have seen. I wonder if en mass they were left out!???😲😲

[DiscoDB]

That is a worry - the LR workshop manual says there should be an O-ring.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200611/fdd35438d40adf2f276eeab40beadd15.jpg

[DiscoDB]

The Haynes workshop manual also says the same.

Does make you wonder if LR ran out of lube and o-rings when they assembled.

[Graeme]

Microcat 2012 has the part number for the grease and o-ring kit only for the TC input shaft for the various vehicles, not for any early L322 front diff.

[justinc]

Microcat 2012 has the part number for the grease and o-ring kit only for the TC input shaft for the various vehicles, not for any early L322 front diff.

Weird....bought a coupling for the l322 and it came with grease and o ring, and there was provision for the o ring which I fitted , and aligned the fromt diff as per instructions.

[justinc]

How To Install Range Rover 4.4 HSE Front Drive Shaft Coupling Replacement Upgrade (https://www.roverparts.com/instructions/8880_FrontDriveShaftCoupling.cfm)

[Graeme]

Was the grease and o-ring the kit? 2" is quite different to 40mm.

Microcat can be lacking accuracy at times, as with any LR documentation.

[DiscoDB]

Good write up on removing the transfer box and input shaft seal replacement here:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Guide: Replacement of Transfer Box Seals (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/guide-replacement-transfer-box-seals-47890.html)

Plus later in the thread are some tips on how to get to the difficult bolts.

[justinc]

Was the grease and o-ring the kit? 2" is quite different to 40mm.

Microcat can be lacking accuracy at times, as with any LR documentation.

The grease and o ring came with the coupling... I have a transfer case overhaul kit arriving, will see if it has the o ring and grease in it, too.

[rick130]

What sort of lube? Lithium grease or HP bearing grease? How would lubricating it prolong life? Appears that a splined fit like that shouldn’t allow much relative play until it’s too late and then no amount of lube will help.

I’m tempted to drop my Transfer Case out for a looksee after 200,000km...

It's called fretting corrosion, common on any non lubricated male/female spline.
110/130 owners have been battling that on axle splines since 1993 (unless they modify the setup) as have Tdci Deefer owners on that stupidly designed spud shaft.

As JC mentioned, a grease with lubricating solids like MoS2 is the go.
The lubricating solids keep things sliding when the hydrodynamic lube film breaks down under EP loads

[BradC]

I would expect on/off throttle to be the main culprit and therefore worse for manual gboxes, not that there'd be many of those

It'll be interesting to see what goes first then, the clutch or the spline.

[PerthDisco]

Good write up on removing the transfer box and input shaft seal replacement here:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Guide: Replacement of Transfer Box Seals (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/guide-replacement-transfer-box-seals-47890.html)

Plus later in the thread are some tips on how to get to the difficult bolts.

Butchering a cheap socket set is a great tip!

[INter674]

It's called fretting corrosion, common on any non lubricated male/female spline.
110/130 owners have been battling that on axle splines since 1993 (unless they modify the setup) as have Tdci Deefer owners on that stupidly designed spud shaft.

As JC mentioned, a grease with lubricating solids like MoS2 is the go.
The lubricating solids keep things sliding when the hydrodynamic lube film breaks down under EP loads


Mm in tractors too from the engine to the clutch assembly...eg our MF input shaft spline failed due to fretting..no lube applied in factory. Fortunately the shaft spline failed...easy replacement from UK. And not the socket which requires a new fluid clutch assembly costing @5k🤤

MF later changed the design due to failures.

Why do they do it😞

[Graeme]

It'll be interesting to see what goes first then, the clutch or the spline.
My RRC has done 350K and the clutch is still fine, not that it gets any hard work, but it doesn't have this TC with its initial-only (if you're lucky) lubricated spline on the input shaft.

[josh.huber]

Was the grease and o-ring the kit? 2" is quite different to 40mm.

Microcat can be lacking accuracy at times, as with any LR documentation.

I re measured the oring and housing. Mine is definitely 2x40

[josh.huber]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200612/6a0f5bdecd352bd6f14305505f3ae236.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200612/49c631f5340a98c0ee24891efd66131c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200612/1c87b9d094fdb3ff62acf05d3ce8fa09.jpg

Couple of different angles for photos. But with and without the oring fitted..
Research shows the box is compatible with my D4 but came out of a V8 rrs

[DiscoJeffster]

So no o-ring originally???

[Graeme]

No grease outside the o-ring groove, only rust, indicating to me that an o-ring had been fitted.

[Graeme]

I re measured the oring and housing. Mine is definitely 2x4040mm ID as per the standard for measuring o-rings?

[josh.huber]

Yeah the oring was fitted to my replacement. Which is old. Maybe the groove for it isn't in the D4 as Justin is saying.
I've ordered a new one and seems to look good for the replacement.

[josh.huber]

40mm ID as per the standard for measuring o-rings?

Yes 2mm cross section 40mm inside diameter. I'll confirm this time next week after the change out

[josh.huber]

So no o-ring originally???

I'll let you know what my D4 has next Friday

[rick130]

Mm in tractors too from the engine to the clutch assembly...eg our MF input shaft spline failed due to fretting..no lube applied in factory. Fortunately the shaft spline failed...easy replacement from UK. And not the socket which requires a new fluid clutch assembly costing @5k🤤

MF later changed the design due to failures.

Why do they do it😞

I've always used a moly grease on clutch shaft splines, and that's what's usually specced in any service manual I've seen, but factories obviously continue to miss the basics......

[DazzaTD5]

just as some info with regards to if putting grease on a spline helps...
*All splines suffer fretting.
*Fretting is the exchange of metal on close fitting surfaces such as splines.
*When the fretted material comes into contact with oxygen it forms oxides (fretting corrosion).
*The oxides are harder than the parent metal.
*The whole purpose of grease is to prevent the fretted material from coming into contact with oxygen.

So all you need is a grease that is going to stay in place, it doesnt need to be some "special" product from the manufacturer.

[loanrangie]

just as some info with regards to if putting grease on a spline helps...
*All splines suffer fretting.
*Fretting is the exchange of metal on close fitting surfaces such as splines.
*When the fretted material comes into contact with oxygen it forms oxides (fretting corrosion).
*The oxides are harder than the parent metal.
*The whole purpose of grease is to prevent the fretted material from coming into contact with oxygen.

So all you need is a grease that is going to stay in place, it doesnt need to be some "special" product from the manufacturer.

So not "Landrover special grease " at $100 per gram then.[bighmmm]

[Graeme]

The grease in the LR kit is the 10ml syringe size of a range of container sizes that is generally available in Europe.

I will be using Molybond assembly paste GA50 which by its application description is for the same application as the grease that LR include, but getting the 100ml tube available here for about $40. I will use more than 10ml and have spare for my son's D4 TC splines. I accept the several grease manufacturers' application descriptions that assembly grease makes it a significantly better proposition for this use.

[josh.huber]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200619/59c991595e9d5369c019f17c08965434.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200619/133f6d48f908441d461220e28ddf8bdc.jpg

Just got mine out. Was greased. Only lightly. Splines were fine. There was an oring in there too.

236000 ks

[Graeme]

Thanks Josh.

I collected my Viton o-rings today but the tube of Moly GA50 assembly grease has an ETA of 20/7 although now waiting at the shop.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thanks Josh.

So can i just remove propshafts and their stub ends to regrease tc splines, or does the entire transfer case have to come out?

I see the tc has one side hollow shaft and the other a stub shaft, both splined of course.

[josh.huber]

Thanks Josh.

So can i just remove propshafts and their stub ends to regrease tc splines, or does the entire transfer case have to come out?

I see the tc has one side hollow shaft and the other a stub shaft, both splined of course.

Hey Eric,

I removed, the shield over the rear shaft, the rear shaft. The front shaft at the TC end. The rear mount. Pushed the TC up and removed the mount, sat a peice of ply under the rear of the box. Pulled the electrics and the breather. Pulled the box. The box has to come out to be regreased. The stock grease is pretty thick. You need a bit of time to clean it out. My TC wasn't all the slop in my drive train. But I'm glad I greased that shaft before it became a problem. The mates hoist is a real life saver.

[DiscoJeffster]

Hey Eric,

I removed, the shield over the rear shaft, the rear shaft. The front shaft at the TC end. The rear mount. Pushed the TC up and removed the mount, sat a peice of ply under the rear of the box. Pulled the electrics and the breather. Pulled the box. The box has to come out to be regreased. The stock grease is pretty thick. You need a bit of time to clean it out. My TC wasn't all the slop in my drive train. But I'm glad I greased that shaft before it became a problem. The mates hoist is a real life saver.

Eric, DIY Garage WA session? We can use the lifts there. I can do my valve body and TC regrease and you can do your TC regrease. Together we can help each other and enjoy a hoist!

[josh.huber]

Eric, DIY Garage WA session? We can use the lifts there. I can do my valve body and TC regrease and you can do your TC regrease. Together we can help each other and enjoy a hoist!

That's all good in theory. But you didn't mention beer?
The upper transfer bolts are bitches. The ones close to the top are bitches also. Maybe worse. The good news is the case isn't that heavy. I did it myself. But you could easily get two people under there and not destroy someone's back.

[PerthDisco]

Eric, DIY Garage WA session? We can use the lifts there. I can do my valve body and TC regrease and you can do your TC regrease. Together we can help each other and enjoy a hoist!

I’m in! Many spanners make light work.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Eric, DIY Garage WA session? We can use the lifts there. I can do my valve body and TC regrease and you can do your TC regrease. Together we can help each other and enjoy a hoist!

Im in, when and where? I need to do an oul service too.

[DiscoJeffster]

Im in, when and where? I need to do an oul service too.

Where is DIY Garage Malaga. When. Good question. I need to find a weekend that would work.

[Disco W.A]

Bearings, seals and snap rings. IIRC one of the bearings is not very common... whole kit around $340

Hi Justin,

who do you source the overhaul kits from?

Thanks Roger

[Ferret]

One service kit supplier

Transfer Case Repair Kit suitable for Discovery 3 4 Range Rover Sport
(https://www.allfourx4.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/allfourx4/Products/DD295K)
And you might be able to buy a kit from Transmissions R US. Pretty sure they had kits on the shelf when I was there.

[Jeffoir]

194325194326Dear AULROVIANS,

My D4, which does the expedition work, with 220,000 kms, was going rapid fire ?clunk, clunk, clunk? when accelerating around a corner, after stopping.

A transfer case recalibration did not fix it.

Pulled the transfer case out and the pictures tell the story. Lots of ?fretting corrosion? with just a trace of residual grease, on the bottom of the surround of the input drive on the transfer case.

I'm exploring options. I will update as we go along.

thank you and best wishes to all. Jeff.

[PerthDisco]

194325194326Dear AULROVIANS,

My D4, which does the expedition work, with 220,000 kms, was going rapid fire ?clunk, clunk, clunk? when accelerating around a corner, after stopping.

A transfer case recalibration did not fix it.

Pulled the transfer case out and the pictures tell the story. Lots of ?fretting corrosion? with just a trace of residual grease, on the bottom of the surround of the input drive on the transfer case.

I'm exploring options. I will update as we go along.

thank you and best wishes to all. Jeff.

This is the great unknown on mine if some got enough grease or none got enough grease. How did the removal go?

Problem is if the wear is severe on the female side not an easy fix.

Will watch with interest.

[Jeffoir]

Hi Everyone,
further to post 111 above, here is an update:
1. Researched doing either a rebuild, buying a reconditioned case or buying low milage 2nd hand case.
2. when Indy hours are costed in (as I do not have the tools and experience to rebuild myself,) I chose the 2nd hand case. See photos.
3. the 2nd hand case has an O Ring. My old case DID NOT.
4. have ordered new O ring and the Molybond GA50 Assembly grease to fully lubricate and seal the spline area.
5. will be reinstalling next week.

Perth Disco at post 112 asked if case removal was difficult. Answer: Yes, it takes time because the top bolts are difficult to access.
Indy, who is an automatic transmission specialist, not a full-time LR mechanic, rigged up a number of extensions onto a socket to remove. Indy has since ordered a set of the short torque adaptor spanners, for reinstallation. These spanners are referenced further back in the Thread.

You Tube's LR Time has this covered the transfer case removal their video called WORKSHOP FAIL. Christian makes his own special tool naturally. He is a classic!

Another update next week.

best wishes, Jeff.

[cjc_td5]

194325194326Dear AULROVIANS,

My D4, which does the expedition work, with 220,000 kms, was going rapid fire ?clunk, clunk, clunk? when accelerating around a corner, after stopping.

A transfer case recalibration did not fix it.

Pulled the transfer case out and the pictures tell the story. Lots of ?fretting corrosion? with just a trace of residual grease, on the bottom of the surround of the input drive on the transfer case.

I'm exploring options. I will update as we go along.

thank you and best wishes to all. Jeff.

So are you doing anything about the gearbox end of the joint Jeff? Or just replacing the TC case?

My MY14 D4 is at 370,000km. This thread is freaking me out!

[Jeffoir]

So are you doing anything about the gearbox end of the joint Jeff? Or just replacing the TC case?

My MY14 D4 is at 370,000km. This thread is freaking me out!

Hi Chris,

On the Gearbox end, after a thorough clean, the splines were deemed serviceable.
My transmission Indy, who is doing the job, said that replacing the Gearbox shaft, (the Male Part) would be towards the final part of a transmission dismantle. This would be quite expensive.

It is his opinion that:
1. Given the very good condition of the splines on this 2nd hand replacement transfer case i have just purchased (see photo above,) and
2. The thorough clean and Moly lube of the gearbox splines which is about to be done, and
3. Installing an O-Ring.
that the job should be reliable for many, many more kms.

We can correspond more next week, after the job is complete.

However, with your D4 at 370,000kms, it is almost certainly due a good lubrication of the splines. To be economical with time, getting the T Case separated from the Transmission, is a specialist job. You are in WA. I suggest that you speak with Dazza at Aztec. He is right across this issue.

Best, Jeff

[Graeme]

My local country general purpose mechanic removed the TC from my MY12 L322 at 150K kms to re-lubricate the splines then reftted the TC. There's nothing special about removing the TC although LR recommend fitting new tailshaft flange bolts.
I supplied a new oil seal for the TC input shaft.

[Jeffoir]

Hi Everyone,
the 2nd hand case is now in the car.
it is running very well.
The case was filled with 1.5 litres of the official LR Transfer Case fluid, at $105 per litre. I know LR do not make T case fluid and I object to this expensive mark up. However in the whole scheme of things, I did not want any regrets, so went with it.
the splines were thoroughly lubricated with the Molybond ga50 assembly grease listed further back in the thread. This is available from Blackwoods.
A genuine LR O ring was fitted. The replacement case had the groove for an O ring. My old case does not.
The case was recalibrated using the Gap ii D tool.

i now have the old case, with worn-out input drive spline. The Auto trans Indy would like to Rebuild it and make a YouTube video.

safe travels to all.
jeff.