2010 TDCI 2.4 Puma sucking air in fuel system?

[FV1601]

Had intermittent fail to starts, or hard to start over the last 9 months on our 2.4 130. It took sometime to see the correlation of starting issues and fuel tank level. Originally below 1/4 of a tank meant no start, although if running would continue to do so until well after the fuel light came on, this has now crept up to 1/3 of a tank required.
I assume this points to the fuel pickup in the tank being damaged. Confusingly my search results are saying that the part (WQB100440) is the same as that for the TD5, and is also a fuel pump. I know the TDCI has no in tank pump. My Haynes manual refers to it as just a fuel sender.
At around $500 for this part (which also appears to be hard to get hold of ?) I need to be sure it is the correct one. Naturally I would rather not drop the tank out, then have to wait weeks to get the part, or buy it and find it is wrong.
Anyone else out there been through this?
Advice appreciated.
Rich.

[HardCharger]

Hi there,

I've been having air in the system problems for quite a while now ever since my truck drowned in a flash flood. Unfortunately for me, the flood water it was in was corrosive to rubber. I've already replaced a few fuel lines that were suspect but a few months ago, I've had issues where the truck would die and require re-priming of the fuel system until I can get fuel back in. This would happen once the gauge reaches the 3/4 tank mark. It is suspected that the hoses on the fuel pick up assembly are compromised and would require replacement. Since there are no replacement bits for just these small hoses, it is now time for me to drop the tank and replace the whole assembly. Looking at the parts manual, there are also 3 seals that go with it so I'll be on the safe side and order the 3 seals plus the pick up assembly. It was recommended that an original pick up is used as the replacement parts apparently do not last long for some reason.

Here are the part numbers I've got for your reference:


ESR3808, Ring-Locking
WQB100440.LRC, Pump-Fuel
WGQ500020, Gasket
ESR3807, Adaptor-Fuel

My truck is also a 2011 2.4 Puma so we should use the same parts. While it says Pump-Fuel, there is no pump in the assembly and it is just a pick up and level sender. Our pump is the high pressure pump on the engine and this being the case, we have to ensure that there is no air in the system and that it is properly primed. My parts are already on order and am now waiting for the supplier to ship them. Given the current situation with COVID-19, the shipments aren't as prompt as they used to be.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you do.

[FV1601]

Thanks for the reply, sounds like we have the same problem! I wish I knew the cause in my case though.
I will toddle into the local Land Rover agent during the week and get a price on all the bits, be a fun experience going by my past dealings with them.... The part numbers will be very useful.
Good luck with your new pickup, hope it fixes your problem.
Rich.

[cripesamighty]

When my old girlfriend and I bought our new Puma back in 2008, we took it straight from the dealer to get the after market kit put on it - LR fuel tank, barwork, etc. Not long after collecting it after its fit out, we started having fuel starvation problems. To cut a long story short, after many trials and tribulations, it turns out some plastic swarf from the original fuel tank got stuck in the fuel hose resulting in some rough running. A clear plastic fuel hose in the engine bay showed cavitation/bubbles coming through and they finally figured it out. It's probably a long shot, but you may have picked up some grit somewhere.

[ian4002000]

Have you changed the fuel filter lately ? Your could have a leak at the fuel filter Oring.

Ian
Bittern

[FV1601]

cripesamighty - re blocked fuel line. Had this problem with other vehicles, but in this case I think that as the vehicle will (and will only) start after the fuel level is increased to 1/2 a tank probably negates this. Am I ruling it out?? No.

Ian, fuel filter was not old, clean and had good "O" rings, but replaced, just in case, last month with no change.


Should point out that all injectors were replaced 10 months (6000kms) ago. The starting issues prior to that was only apparent when parked on a reasonable incline.
Rich.

[HardCharger]

Funny thing about the fuel filter, when the engine hiccups started happening, I replaced the lines first but still had the problem. Eventually, a friend of mine suggested to check the fuel filter again. While it was on there tight, you could wobble it from side to side! Ordered a new, different OEM brand and it fit perfect with no movement and seemed to solve the issue for a few months before the hiccups started to manifest themselves into the issue I still live with today. Hopefully I can hear back from the UK soon regarding my order so we can solve the problem, hopefully, once and for all.

[FV1601]

Okaaaay... Land Rover agent price - Fuel sender/pickup $955, gasket $73. GST was not discussed, so could be 10%more. Available overnight.
Desk person was not able to say if there is still a pump in the unit, but did confirm that the part number is the same as the TD5 Defender.
This begs the question, if the unit has a pump in it, can we not use it for bleeding the system?

Short term solution is to keep pumping over from the auxiliary tank when ever the fuel drops to half, and keep an eye out for an affordable unit, which probably depends on the easing of international restrictions.
Rich.

[Robmacca]

Okaaaay... Land Rover agent price - Fuel sender/pickup $955, gasket $73. GST was not discussed, so could be 10%more. Available overnight.
Desk person was not able to say if there is still a pump in the unit, but did confirm that the part number is the same as the TD5 Defender.
This begs the question, if the unit has a pump in it, can we not use it for bleeding the system?

Short term solution is to keep pumping over from the auxiliary tank when ever the fuel drops to half, and keep an eye out for an affordable unit, which probably depends on the easing of international restrictions.
Rich.


Not sure if this will help u or not... but I had something similar happen to my '09 Puma but mine was more to filling up at a Servo where a Tanker was filling the Servo tanks up and (imho) must have stirred up all the crap in the tank which then flowed to the browsers when filling up your vehicles tank... This became evident 30kms down the road when the engine started missing, etc. Upon replacing the Fuel Filter I noticed a lot of crap coming out when I drained the fuel filter. Once a new filter was in place I thought the problem was solved until I found that when the tank dropped below a certain level, it would start to play up again to the point where it would stop the engine...(this happened in the middle of the desert which was a bit concerning)... From ruling out various issues, it was determined that the crud in the tank would end up blocking the fuel pick up when the fuel level would drop to a certain level - to get around this for where we were we just ensured that the tank wouldn't drop below a certain level and this got us the some 2000kms home w/o further issues.
Upon getting home the tank was removed and cleaned (our assumptions turned out correct in the way the fuel is sucked up through the sender unit.) out and I ended up having to get new Fuel lines between tank and OEM filter + a new Sender unit. The price of the sender unit certainly wasn't anywhere near the $955 mark (sender unit w/o pump) but I'd have to find the receipt to confirm actual $$. I've since installed a Aux Fuel Filter (which has a inbuilt primer) under the bonnet to solve any future problems.... hopefully :)

[HardCharger]

2.4 Pumas do not have the pump at the pick up and rely on the high pressure pump to get things moving along. This means there must be no air in the system. This is why, you need to have a priming tool when changing filters. Incidentally, the priming tool is how I found out about an air leak into the system as priming from the engine bay did not yield the desired results and we narrowed down that the air ingress was on the low pressure side of the fuel pump. Working the problem, I just wound up priming on the fuel filter mount after the filter and into the line until I got the truck started and then just reconnected the lines once I was sure that there was no air, at least from where the priming tool was connected.

The fuel pick up assemblies with the pumps on them were installed in the 2.2 Pumas. You can hear the pump activate for a while when you turn the key and wait for the glow plugs to shut off before starting. This pump makes it easier to prime the fuel filter and the filter system on the 2.2 as all you needed to do was turn the key a few times for the tank pump to fill the filter and purge any air from the system down stream.

Now the question becomes, can a 2.2 pick up unit be used on a 2.4? No one knows at this point. Another unknown is what controls the tank pump to be on momentarily. The fear is that if not wired correctly, it could just keep on running and eventually burn itself out, which is not the preferred situation as the 2.2 pick up units with the pump are MUCH MORE expensive than the 2.4 pick ups without the pump. Looking into the ECU to see if it controls the momentary activation of the pump yielded no promising results.

If you do figure it out, let us all know!

[roverrescue]

2.4 Defender has NO pump in the fuel sensor pickup unit
Part number should be WQB100430

Can buy from UK for 100quid
No chance in hell I’d pay a gorilla for one


The unit has pickup in a swirl pot, return line and the level sensor. Drops into top of tank and held in place with a retaining ring.

S

[FV1601]

I read it as:
WQB100430 = 90
WQB100440 =110/130.
Hope that's right anyway, as I have ordered the latter.
Considerably cheaper, and the freight time is the same as the sealing ring I ordered here in Oz.
Got to watch that postage though, varied $18 to $80.
Rich.

[roverrescue]

Once you get the parts it would be good for a follow up on where / if your part failed

My gut says you would be just as likely to have an air leak at the quick connect EFI fittings as somewhere in a simple pickup tube???

Steve

[FV1601]

Steve, hedging my bets, that tank is only coming out once.
In a month or so I will know the score, and will of course pass on what I have learned.
Rich.

[Boots]

Hey Rich,

Any update on this issue?

Boots

[FV1601]

My, time flies.
The Covid issue slowed down the import of the pickup unit to 6 wks or so, just in time for the NSW/Vic border to be shut down. My mechanic is one (Thats ONE!) km on the wrong side of the river, but you know the old saying, "Once you've got a good mechanic, hang on to him" so we waited patiently. Border opened just in time for the the mechanic's holidays, so another 5 weeks or so... Of course as most of the high country was shut down because of fire damage or Covid restrictions, or seasonal closures we were doing few kms, and just kept the tank above half, with extra in the long range tank.
However, we got there eventually (November...). The pick up was replaced, as was the high pressure fuel line which appeared to be brittle, fragile and weeping, to the point that he was not able to confirm which item was the problem. Working properly now, although we either got a 10% boost to economy, or the sender unit reads slightly different to the old one.
Allowing for my supply of sender and sealing ring, mechanic's labour and the replacement fuel line, the job cost was pretty close to half of the Sender Unit itself as quoted from the local dealer.
Rich.