LR4 Crankshaft Failure?

[rapserv]

Seriously looking at upgrading (if you could call it that) from a EU3 Disco 2 TD5 to a LR4 SDV6 and have a concern in the back of my mind re: crankshaft failure in this engine .. even though the possibility of it happening is fairly low .. according to Land Rover.
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone on the forum .. and if so .. how was the problem resolved and in particular .. WHO paid for the repair?

As I see it, LR have admitted it is caused by a manufacturing problem (SSM72928) and therefore anyone, under Australian law, who has suffered from the failure should be able to pursue LR for repair cost.
The fact that the vehicle may have been outside the 'warranty' period is irrelevant.
The simple 'fact' is ... the problem was a KNOWN fault BEFORE the vehicle was sold and if the failure occurs .. then the engine was 'not fit for purpose' .. or is not within the definition of 'a reasonable expectation'.

[Graeme]

Have a read of this thread: 2.7 and 3.0 Td V6 Crankshaft Bearing Failure known manufacturing fault (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/251849-2-7-3-0-td-v6-crankshaft-bearing-failure-known-manufacturing-fault.html)

[p38arover]

LR4? Are you moving to the USA? :)

[scarry]

There are better things to worry about,a very small % actually fail.

With a good service record you should be fine.

Or go the D4 2.7l,less problematic than the SDV6,and NO reported crankshaft failures.The engine was uprated from D3.

[101RRS]

Yes definitely go a D4 over a LR4 - much better vehicle [bigrolf]

[RobMichelle]

Gday Dave, we just purchased aD3 to add to our Landrover driveway, I suppose if we worried about all the possibilities that could go wrong we wouldn’t have vehicle at all especially a Landrover, I’m wondering how to mount the Hf aerial when/ if I get rid of D2, new colour coded bull bar goes on D3 next week [emoji106], good luck with the pondering
Rob

[scarry]

With the D3,although they are getting on a bit,and so some issues are going to appear,a Territory engine is the go if the worse happens.

Same for D4 2.7l,but no reports of broken cranks so far with the model run,as said.

Where with the 3.0l,it is a costly exercise to replace the engine,and as these vehicles get older,they won't be worth repairing.

But like i said,the chance of it happening is remote.

[Discodicky]

Seriously looking at upgrading (if you could call it that) from a EU3 Disco 2 TD5 to a LR4 SDV6 and have a concern in the back of my mind re: crankshaft failure in this engine .. even though the possibility of it happening is fairly low .. according to Land Rover.
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone on the forum .. and if so .. how was the problem resolved and in particular .. WHO paid for the repair?

As I see it, LR have admitted it is caused by a manufacturing problem (SSM72928) and therefore anyone, under Australian law, who has suffered from the failure should be able to pursue LR for repair cost.
The fact that the vehicle may have been outside the 'warranty' period is irrelevant.
The simple 'fact' is ... the problem was a KNOWN fault BEFORE the vehicle was sold and if the failure occurs .. then the engine was 'not fit for purpose' .. or is not within the definition of 'a reasonable expectation'.

There are actually 2 x SSM's.
SSM72928 & SSM71816

I have an MY13 D4 and bought it 20 mnths ago @ 102,000 klms knowing about the c/shaft 'problems' but that didn't deter me.
If you look at various past threads concerning this matter you will see that I have said exactly the same as you.
ie, given the SSM's and known re-calls in other countries, I also believe that LRA doesn't have a leg to stand on.

A simple phone call to them (in the event of failure) will undoubtedly see you fobbed off and I reckon they'll try a fair bit to decline any wnty or pro rata wnty.
However I have a small amount of Aus Consumer Law knowledge which was drummed into us at the (Worldwide) Earth moving manufacturer where I was State Mngr for almost 30 yrs prior retirement, and I have no doubt that if LRA was pushed hard enough by a competent lawyer threatening Class Actions, bad publicity, etc, they would reconsider their position.

LRA, like any other manufacturer's representative, will try and make life difficult for anyone making such a claim in the hope of fobbing you off, however I for one would willingly spend if necessary a coupla thousand in lawyers fees if it was considered my case had a good chance of success.
There a plenty of lawyers around these days who advertise "no win no fee" service, and a half hour discussion with one would soon determine one's chances of success.

If you are that worried, why not talk to one prior purchase of a D4?

I am sure you'd need to provide adequate proof of regular servicing and maintenance etc and that is why I keep all documents of oil & filter purchases etc. I service mine religiously every 10k and use correct oil/filter which is of course mandatory.

Depending on your budget, I would recommend as late a D4 as you can manage (goes without saying! [bigwhistle])

PS: A little known section of Aus Consumer Law concerning wntys is very interesting and it concerns your comment "fit for purpose".
For example, If you buy a new fridge with 12 months wnty, and it fails at say, 20 to 22 months, therefore 10-12 months out of wnty, if you scream hard enough AND YOU CAN DEMONSTRATE THE FAILURE WAS NOT CAUSED BY YOU, then you should get either a new one FOC or at least a very generous pro rata wnty.

I have no doubt that 99% of fridge Retailers would be completely unaware of that part of ACL, which makes life difficult when claiming the fridge wnty, but it's necessary to persevere, just like it would be with LRA!

The reasoning behind this is the fact that we all know that fridges last 10-20 years, and thus the purchaser can have reasonable expectations that his new fridge should last that time.

Apologies for long post, but this is a very interesting subject.

[rapserv]

Discodicky ... thanks for your reply.

I am intending on still purchasing an LR4 sometime soon ... I was just interested to hear if anyone on the forum had had a crankshaft failure.
I think a bit of 'common sense' should tell pretty much everyone that if something has failed that .. 'shouldn't' have failed .. there must be someone held to account.
I've had some 'experience' with ACL and my wife has worked for Consumer Affairs and the Supreme Court.
I've found that a LOT of people believe that once a warranty has expired .. you don't have any comeback ... but the fact is, many times you do!!
Many believe this because this is what the manufacturers & retailers WANT you to believe. Just like if you want to return a faulty item to a department store but can't find the receipt. You are NOT required to have the receipt, regardless of what the store might tell you .... THEY will have a copy of the receipt ... you just need to remember where you bought it from and when .. if at all possible.
As you say ... most of these places will try and just fob you off ... but stand your ground!!
When running my business a few years back, I took one of the worlds largest consumer electronics companies to the ACCC for breaches of the TPA and they got done like a dinner!! In Australia, we have some fairly decent consumer protection legislation ... so people should not be reluctant to take advantage of it.
In the case of LR, the fact that this is not only a known problem, but that it was known to be caused by LR's OWN manufacturing process .. and DOCUMENTED .. makes me pretty sure that a claim against LR for a damaged crankshaft would not be too difficult to prove in a court of law.
I for one would have no hesitation in proceeding should it be necessary.

Obviously, the any item in question would have to be costly enough to warrant going to court in the first place, however, even though the vehicle (in this case a secondhand LR4) may have been purchased for a relatively cheap price (due to poor LR's resale values) ... it was a VERY expensive vehicle to purchase only a few years earlier, and I'm sure a court would look at this position favorably.

Consumers need to start standing up to these 'bad' practices and use the laws that are there to protect THEM!!
Whatever product you have purchased ... you have paid out of your own pocket your own 'hard worked for' money to acquire.

[DiscoJeffster]

Dude you’re dreaming, unless someone like the ACCC is willing to step in, someone too rich for their own good or a class action takes Land Rover to court over it. It’ll cost far more than the replacement cost of the vehicle which is why no one has in Australia.

Have you used a lawyer? I mean I sent a letter to my ex via the lawyer and that was $1300. A court case is listed as over $100,000 for a “simple” family court matter. JLR will throw money defending the case because of the flow-on effect. At best you might be able to drum up a class action but I don’t think there are enough aggrieved plaintiffs out there that are willing to try.

[sharmy]

Does anyone know how many of these crankshafts fail 1%,5%,10% or more?

[ATH]

Right on DiscoJ. Have a look at the problems many van owners have trying to get their expensive but pretty vans fixed under any laws. Just try getting any assistance from all those bureaucraps (deliberate mis-spelling) we employ in all the states and see the response.
A consumer affairs "officer" in WA told us he was "reluctant to approach Mr *** as he's an icon of the industry". Meaning of course he was **** scared it may effect his job prospects and easy working life.
You're right about the cost of lawyers as well.... a rellie tried getting a de facto off her back and it cost a fortune with a totally useless lawyer charging well over 400 bucks an hour and doing nothing. Over 20 grand later she gave up and the costs never stopped there with a magistrate awarding the poor hard up useless idiot part of her savings.... the law is there for those that can afford it.
LR will do as the caravan industry does will just get their tame lawyers to use it to stop any attempt to get "justice".
AlanH.

PS. Meanwhile I'm continuing with good servicing using good oils and trust our vehicle will continue serenely along into the sunset. :)

[Eric SDV6SE]

Does anyone know how many of these crankshafts fail 1%,5%,10% or more?

Try way less than 1%. Plenty of info on here in other threads.

[101RRS]

I am intending on still purchasing an LR4 sometime soon ... I was just interested to hear if anyone on the forum had had a crankshaft failure.


LR4s do not have an issue with crankshaft failure as the LR4 does not come with diesel engines. D4 is a different matter.

[rapserv]

LR4s do not have an issue with crankshaft failure as the LR4 does not come with diesel engines. D4 is a different matter.

Well ... thanks for that bit of information.
I am aware of that fact .. I was simply referring to it as an LR4 to save me having to type out 'Land Rover Discovery 4'.

[rapserv]

Dude you’re dreaming, unless someone like the ACCC is willing to step in, someone too rich for their own good or a class action takes Land Rover to court over it. It’ll cost far more than the replacement cost of the vehicle which is why no one has in Australia.

Have you used a lawyer? I mean I sent a letter to my ex via the lawyer and that was $1300. A court case is listed as over $100,000 for a “simple” family court matter. JLR will throw money defending the case because of the flow-on effect. At best you might be able to drum up a class action but I don’t think there are enough aggrieved plaintiffs out there that are willing to try.
The problem that we have with large companies not correcting their faulty products is BECAUSE customers just roll over and aren't prepared to take them on.
Some people just give up at the first sign of the companies rejection. If you want to do that ... fine ... it's entirely your decision.
I don't give up that easily.
Only a couple of years ago I took on a fridge/freezer manufacturer for a fridge that failed in my caravan.
A hairline fracture in the copper tubing caused the refrigerant to leak out rendering the fridge useless. (I was out the back of Meekatharra at the time it failed)
The fridge was well out of warranty but I contacted the manufacturer, who initially refused point blank to do anything about it, because it was 'out of warranty'
I was told that the fridge could not be repaired & re-gassed .. and that I would need to purchase a new replacement 'cooling unit' at a cost of around $1700!!
Failing that .. I would have to buy a new fridge .. around $3000+.
I advised them after quite a bit of argument that I was happy to take the matter further with Consumer Affairs/ACCC .. once again on the grounds of 'Not Fit for Purpose' AND 'Reasonable Expectation'.
They then said that they would 'escalate' the matter to management.
Needless to say ... shortly after that I recieve a call back telling me .."'Good News'... we're going to replace the cooling unit at no cost to you." ... surprise surprise!!
I understand that an expensive LR engine is considerably more than that .. but it doesn't matter .. the same principles (and laws) apply.
Obviously, you would need to show that the vehicle has been properly maintained to have any chance of sustaining the claim and the fact that, in the case of the crankshaft issue, it has been documented by Land Rover themselves as a 'manufacturing fault' ... Not too hard to go from there to a successful resolution.
There may well have already been successful claims that we don't know about due to 'confidentiality clauses'.

[101RRS]

Well ... thanks for that bit of information.
I am aware of that fact .. I was simply referring to it as an LR4 to save me having to type out 'Land Rover Discovery 4'.


Well seeing you were posting in the Discovery section and not the Land Rover section - D4 would have worked well - we dont have LR4s here [thumbsupbig]

[p38arover]

I am aware of that fact .. I was simply referring to it as an LR4 to save me having to type out 'Land Rover Discovery 4'.


Then why not type D4 - it's shorter and better accepted on an Australian Land Rover forum than the American name LR4?

[rapserv]

Then why not type D4 - it's shorter and better accepted on an Australian Land Rover forum than the American name LR4?

I would have thought that anyone with any common sense would have known i was talking about a D4 and crankshaft issues.
I also usually type LR instead of Land Rover ... or should I maybe refer to them simply as Rover as well because that's more 'accepted'

[scarry]

Try way less than 1%. Plenty of info on here in other threads.

Thats probably correct,but the real issue is the problem was never rectified.

They are still breaking in D5.

The D4 2.7 seems to be the only TD V6 that didn't have failures,in LR's.
Same as the Territory TDV6 engines.

[101RRS]

I would have thought that anyone with any common sense would have known i was talking about a D4

FFS then why not type D4 as we are in Aust not the US and LR4s do not have diesels.

[John_D4]

FFS then why not type D4 as we are in Aust not the US and LR4s do not have diesels.

Just to stir the pot a bit more, maybe he should have written JLRD4, or is it JLR-D4, or JLR D4?

Confused!

[Eric SDV6SE]

Apparently, and I speak under correction, a change to the crank was made at some stage for 2.7 to 3.0l, the only way to tell is the bolt for the crank pulley is larger.

Best advice seems to be service at or before 10000km intervals, dont stray from the spec'd oil and use a quality oil. Watch for leaking front main seals, a strong indicator that the crank thrust washers are worn and the end float of the crank is out of spec.

But basically we're all playing "crank roulette" with these cars.

[discoverypaul]

Broken crankshafts - look at the harmonic balancer - wayyyyyy too small for a diesel with this much torque. Lr are relying on timing belt to remove harmonics.
3rd and 4th order harmonics can destroy any steel crankshaft without adequate damper.
All Cranks breaking at the front #2 journal which is same size journal as #6 , #6 is at rear of crank transferring all the power from the other 5 cyliners to gearbox - should snap there not #2. The torque converter is a big harmonic oil filled dampener that is why rear of crankshaft never breaks.
Need to dampen the front with gel damper!!!
Oh guess what else , spun bearings - this is a classic sign of broken or inadequate damper. 3rd/4th order Harmoics can cause crank to resonate and flex and then it picks up bearing and spins also blocking oil gallerys!!!
5kg+ gel/fluid damper!!!!
Cant believe no one has thought of this!!!
Look up harmonic dampers/ engine harmonics!!

[101RRS]

If it were the case they would all be failing. Actual failure is around 1% so would be a lot higher if it was as you suggest.

[kelvo]

Cant believe no one has thought of this!!!
Look up harmonic dampers/ engine harmonics!!

It has been thought of, but AFAIK not been implemented, https://www.facebook.com/Tdv6sdv6-Viscous-Harmonic-Damper-Interest-and-Discussion-384565665614752/'tsid=0.6841090610619096&source=result (https://m.facebook.com/Tdv6sdv6-Viscous-Harmonic-Damper-Interest-and-Discussion-384565665614752/'tsid=0.6841090610619096&source=result)

[DiscoJeffster]

I’m sure harmonics plus some poor machining/balancing is a factor, but not because the factory harmonic balancer is no good, but because the harmonics are accentuated through crank balance and design issues.
The poor radius of journal two as previously identified, plus possibly a less than good crank balance may cause the random failures were seeing. Breaking at the free end makes sense as it’s the “free” end where torsional flex is higher than compared to the gearbox end.

All speculation [emoji2369][emoji2369][emoji2369]

[mowog]

240000klm on my "Discovery 4" here after "D4"

My D4 has been serviced every 6 months or there about's, The crank thing is a concern but what the hell I just live with it.

There are other more common issues that can be wallet damaging and I have had them happen.



Split intake manifold (don't use an LR dealer for the fix find an indi)
Split intake plenum crazy price for this part. I used a secondhand part
Coolant cross over failure Easy Fix just do it
AC compressor failures
Torque converter issues


Stuff happens I keep fixing the old girl because its still cheaper than buying a new car at the moment.

[Eric SDV6SE]

[LIST]
Split intake manifold (don't use an LR dealer for the fix find an indi)
Split intake plenum crazy price for this part. I used a secondhand part
Coolant cross over failure Easy Fix just do it
AC compressor failures
Torque converter issues



Both manifolds $1800 supply new and fit

The intake elbow is about $100 delivered from the uk. The Y piece a bit mire, but not hugely expensive.

Full service kit from X8R or similar around $150, no need to replace entire compressor.

New TC around $500, the cost is in the labour to get it out, whole transmission has to come out

agree, they are still worth fixing.

[p38arover]

I was told yesterday that an ex-colleague has just has a crankshaft failure in his D4. Quote for a secondhand engine installed is $17K!

[loanrangie]

I was told yesterday that an ex-colleague has just has a crankshaft failure in his D4. Quote for a secondhand engine installed is $17K!Still cheaper than an LC200.

[scarry]

Still cheaper than an LC200.

Crate engine,LC, brand new is around $16K,not second hand or rebuilt.

Rebuilt,around $10K.

Second hand you never know what you are really getting.

Plus installation, etc.
And a 200 same condition and age would no doubt be worth a lot more.

Just saying.

[goldey]

Uuumm, crate engine brand new for a D4 $16k, I don't think so. LR quoted us $30k just for the long engine and $10k to put it in.

Did you mean an LC200 crate engine?

[scarry]

Uuumm, crate engine brand new for a D4 $16k, I don't think so. LR quoted us $30k just for the long engine and $10k to put it in.

Did you mean an LC200 crate engine?

Yes,just edited my post[biggrin]

For D4 3.0L,$17K is pretty cheap,my local Indie does them for well over $20K.

It also depends how many K's and age of the vehicle as other gear may also need replacing at the same time.

And if its an old D4,high mileage,may be not economical to do.

[StephCraig]

Our Discovery 4 HSE 3.0l turbo diesel, purchased in 2016 and with 121K on the clock has just fallen in to this category. She had a catastrophic engine failure on Thursday while on an open highway, not towing, not doing anything arduous. She has been serviced religiously by the Land Rover dealership and has been treated like a precious member of the family (which at the purchase price, she certainly was)... We obviously can’t replace her as the new model is nothing like the old and not what we are looking for so would like to have her repaired. We were advised by the dealership today that we can expect a repair bill of $55K. Yes, really. Obviously we have made a call to LandRover...

[Discodicky]

Our Discovery 4 HSE 3.0l turbo diesel, purchased in 2016 and with 121K on the clock has just fallen in to this category. She had a catastrophic engine failure on Thursday while on an open highway, not towing, not doing anything arduous. She has been serviced religiously by the Land Rover dealership and has been treated like a precious member of the family (which at the purchase price, she certainly was)... We obviously can’t replace her as the new model is nothing like the old and not what we are looking for so would like to have her repaired. We were advised by the dealership today that we can expect a repair bill of $55K. Yes, really. Obviously we have made a call to LandRover...

I am astounded that they are saying $55k.
Would love to hear the breakup of that as I reckon they are either guessing or trying to put you off so you sell it to their Used Sales Dept for $5k and they repair and make a wopping profit!

Since your 2016 model is several years past their dates of the relevant Service Bulletins they don't have a leg to stand on. Its very important that you stand your ground and don't let them fob you off.

You mention it having been serviced by the LR Dealership, did they do the oil changes as per LR Service Schedule (23,000klms) or at the reduced intervals of 10-12,000 Klms?

[kelvo]

Our Discovery 4 HSE 3.0l turbo diesel, purchased in 2016 and with 121K on the clock has just fallen in to this category. She had a catastrophic engine failure on Thursday while on an open highway, not towing, not doing anything arduous. She has been serviced religiously by the Land Rover dealership and has been treated like a precious member of the family (which at the purchase price, she certainly was)... We obviously can’t replace her as the new model is nothing like the old and not what we are looking for so would like to have her repaired. We were advised by the dealership today that we can expect a repair bill of $55K. Yes, really. Obviously we have made a call to LandRover...
Not sure if you’ve seen this thread Jaguar Land Rover recall TDV6 engined vehicles (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/265811-jaguar-land-rover-recall-tdv6-engined-vehicles.html) about the recalls in Korea and China, but it might give you more information to put to JLR Australia.

[StephCraig]

Not sure if you’ve seen this thread Jaguar Land Rover recall TDV6 engined vehicles (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/265811-jaguar-land-rover-recall-tdv6-engined-vehicles.html) about the recalls in Korea and China, but it might give you more information to put to JLR Australia.

Thanks so much, Kevlo.

Something tells me we are going to need all the information/ammunition we can get...

And there is something terribly wrong with that.

Surely, SURELY!!!, a $100K vehicle should be capable of more than 100k km???
My Mazda 3 has done 180K, is 14yo and has never grumbled once!

We are aghast.

[StephCraig]

I am astounded that they are saying $55k.
Would love to hear the breakup of that as I reckon they are either guessing or trying to put you off so you sell it to their Used Sales Dept for $5k and they repair and make a wopping profit!

Since your 2016 model is several years past their dates of the relevant Service Bulletins they don't have a leg to stand on. Its very important that you stand your ground and don't let them fob you off.

You mention it having been serviced by the LR Dealership, did they do the oil changes as per LR Service Schedule (23,000klms) or at the reduced intervals of 10-12,000 Klms?

Hi, they did the changes at the LR Schedule, 23K kms. Should they have been doing them more frequently?

Forgive my complete ignorance, but what do you mean by the relevant service bulletins? I’ve done my best to understand my vehicles and service them appropriately over the years, but am not sure what that term references. Every day is a school day!

And do you know, I wouldn’t actually be surprised if the dealership was winding us up with the cost. The head pencil pusher down there is a piece of work. I think he thinks that everyone who owns one of the cars his dealership sells is an entitled, wealthy snob... No entertainment at all of the fact that the people who purchase a car like this might have actually been saving for it their entire lives and expect to have it for the rest of their lives.

Obviously we have no idea how we are going to pay for the repair, and I am just a little brittle as a result.

[imaz]

Our Discovery 4 HSE 3.0l turbo diesel, purchased in 2016 and with 121K on the clock has just fallen in to this category. She had a catastrophic engine failure on Thursday while on an open highway, not towing, not doing anything arduous. She has been serviced religiously by the Land Rover dealership and has been treated like a precious member of the family (which at the purchase price, she certainly was)... We obviously can’t replace her as the new model is nothing like the old and not what we are looking for so would like to have her repaired. We were advised by the dealership today that we can expect a repair bill of $55K. Yes, really. Obviously we have made a call to LandRover...

$55k

That’s some coin and potential second failures.

I would definitely explore local Indi and reconditioned/exchange units as per link.

Range Rover Sport Discovery 4 TDV6 SDV6 3.0 306DT Reconditioned Engine For Sale | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Range-Rover-Sport-Discovery-4-TDV6-SDV6-3-0-306DT-Reconditioned-Engine-For-Sale-/193760107957?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286)

[Discodicky]

Hi, they did the changes at the LR Schedule, 23K kms. Should they have been doing them more frequently?

Forgive my complete ignorance, but what do you mean by the relevant service bulletins? I’ve done my best to understand my vehicles and service them appropriately over the years, but am not sure what that term references. Every day is a school day!

And do you know, I wouldn’t actually be surprised if the dealership was winding us up with the cost. The head pencil pusher down there is a piece of work. I think he thinks that everyone who owns one of the cars his dealership sells is an entitled, wealthy snob... No entertainment at all of the fact that the people who purchase a car like this might have actually been saving for it their entire lives and expect to have it for the rest of their lives.

Obviously we have no idea how we are going to pay for the repair, and I am just a little brittle as a result.

The first Bulletin regarding the c/shaft failure was SSM71816 dated May 2014. (You can Google it.)
The second Bulletin is SSM72928 which states basically the same thing.

They basically state that in some circumstances due to incorrect assembly, the bearing shell/s for the main brgs on the c/shaft can move, (rotate) thus blocking off their oil feed hole and causing brg seizure and other catastrophic problem such as broken (snapped due to instant seizure) shaft.

The very fact that yours is an MY16 car (ie, 2 yrs AFTER the SSM release date) together with the "bonus" that you've always had it Dealer serviced, would, in most people's opinion be that you'll be entitled to a new engine from LR without any cost whatsoever to you.

Now there is some opinion that the problem is maybe exacerbated by the long periods between engine oil changes, and that the oils ability to do its job satisfactorily, drops off (to put it simply) with the higher klms being asked of it, in this case, 23,000 klms or whatever the periods are.

Indeed, many of us "old school" mechanics reckon that 10,000 klms between changes is about as far as you'd want to go, regardless of the fact that the modern engine oils (full synthetic) are vastly improved.
The main reason why all manufacturers have increased their service periods is a Marketing one, ie, they want to prove their maintenance costs are low.

So, given your cars manufacturing date and the Dealer servicing it should be a cut and dried case for you and in fact we do have some members on this Forum who have been in similar situation and they reported that JLR Aus WAS forthcoming with a new engine.
On some cases they had to pay labour, but I assume it was not quite such a cut and dried case as yours.

That is why I am suggesting you push very hard (lawyers letter etc if necessary) to get a full warranty job at no cost to you.
It sounds like your Dealer is not particularly helpful but you'll have to work on that.

The 55k astounds me 'cos you can buy a reco "long" engine (ie, without turbos etc, it is just the basic engine assembly) for 3,500 quid in England and around $7500 in Aus.
Guessing, I would think that around $10k labour should pull it up?

If its a complete engine assy then less labour hours as not necessary to remove & refit components to the new "long" engine assy.

Maybe a bit more labour cost depending on hourly labour rate, but if a new complete engine assy is, as some people say, around $25k ish, then how does your Dealer estimate $55k????

It goes without saying that you've got to push hard on this one, particularly as it seems the Dealer is not necessarily going in to bat for you.
I reckon that you are holding all the good cards, Good Luck!!

[DiscoJeffster]

Sadly I’ve seen the $50k price before for these engine failures - this isn’t the first. That doesn’t make it right, but I’m not surprised to hear that, sorry

[101RRS]

The price is just the JLR Australia price for a new engine - standard stealer pricing plus their $200+ per hour labour charge.

Nothing to be surprised there - but if you decided to go ahead and pay for a new engine plus installation who in their right mind would use a dealer. So in reality this price means nothing.

[StephCraig]

The first Bulletin regarding the c/shaft failure was SSM71816 dated May 2014. (You can Google it.)
The second Bulletin is SSM72928 which states basically the same thing.

They basically state that in some circumstances due to incorrect assembly, the bearing shell/s for the main brgs on the c/shaft can move, (rotate) thus blocking off their oil feed hole and causing brg seizure and other catastrophic problem such as broken (snapped due to instant seizure) shaft.

The very fact that yours is an MY16 car (ie, 2 yrs AFTER the SSM release date) together with the "bonus" that you've always had it Dealer serviced, would, in most people's opinion be that you'll be entitled to a new engine from LR without any cost whatsoever to you.

Now there is some opinion that the problem is maybe exacerbated by the long periods between engine oil changes, and that the oils ability to do its job satisfactorily, drops off (to put it simply) with the higher klms being asked of it, in this case, 23,000 klms or whatever the periods are.

Indeed, many of us "old school" mechanics reckon that 10,000 klms between changes is about as far as you'd want to go, regardless of the fact that the modern engine oils (full synthetic) are vastly improved.
The main reason why all manufacturers have increased their service periods is a Marketing one, ie, they want to prove their maintenance costs are low.

So, given your cars manufacturing date and the Dealer servicing it should be a cut and dried case for you and in fact we do have some members on this Forum who have been in similar situation and they reported that JLR Aus WAS forthcoming with a new engine.
On some cases they had to pay labour, but I assume it was not quite such a cut and dried case as yours.

That is why I am suggesting you push very hard (lawyers letter etc if necessary) to get a full warranty job at no cost to you.
It sounds like your Dealer is not particularly helpful but you'll have to work on that.

The 55k astounds me 'cos you can buy a reco "long" engine (ie, without turbos etc, it is just the basic engine assembly) for 3,500 quid in England and around $7500 in Aus.
Guessing, I would think that around $10k labour should pull it up?

If its a complete engine assy then less labour hours as not necessary to remove & refit components to the new "long" engine assy.

Maybe a bit more labour cost depending on hourly labour rate, but if a new complete engine assy is, as some people say, around $25k ish, then how does your Dealer estimate $55k????

It goes without saying that you've got to push hard on this one, particularly as it seems the Dealer is not necessarily going in to bat for you.
I reckon that you are holding all the good cards, Good Luck!!

Thank you so much for all of your advice/help.
You’ve given us a glimmer of hope.

Ironically we were just singing the praises of our car to a dear friend recently...
May need to update our advice now.

Will update when we talk to LandRover again tomorrow. Suspect this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

[loanrangie]

Yes,just edited my post[biggrin]

For D4 3.0L,$17K is pretty cheap,my local Indie does them for well over $20K.

It also depends how many K's and age of the vehicle as other gear may also need replacing at the same time.

And if its an old D4,high mileage,may be not economical to do.Toymota rrp is 26k for a crate motor.

[Discodicky]

Thank you so much for all of your advice/help.
You’ve given us a glimmer of hope.

Ironically we were just singing the praises of our car to a dear friend recently...
May need to update our advice now.

Will update when we talk to LandRover again tomorrow. Suspect this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

Probably getting too far ahead of myself now with what I am about to say below, but prior retirement, in other "lives" I worked as a Head mech in a LR/RR/Jaguar dealership and later for 30 odd years as a Senior Mngr with a worldwide earthmoving manufacturer, so i have a fair idea of the processes involved here.

Ideally, your Dealership should submit a "Policy Claim" on your behalf, stating the SSM's, your car's service history etc. Then hopefully, LRA will accept it and give the authorisation for your dealership to do the repairs. Theoretically at least, it should not be necessary for you to contact LRA.

One reason why your dealer may not be "helpful" for you is the fact that they'll have to do the repairs at virtually "cost" price with labour.
In other words, rather than be able to charge you anywhere between $150-200 per hour for your "retail" job, they will only be able to charge LRA at warranty labour rates which will be vastly less (circa $60 per hour????)

So, obviously your dealership could be many thousands dollars less in income for your job!!

As I said, getting too far ahead now, but just trying to forewarn you that the dealer MAY try to do some sort of shifty work and tell you that LRA will only supply the engine FOC and you'll have to pay them the labour!

Stick to your guns, yes it will most likely be long and protracted, but as every day goes past these days, the ACCC is looking at car manufacturers a lot closer than past years which is great for the consumer.

Fingers crossed!

I shudder when reading of people's misfortunes such as yours, and my immediate reaction is to say, **** it, I'll sell the bloody thing before it bites me. (It's done 152,000 klms and been a great car) But wot car can you buy with a limited budget (Retirement!!) which drives so nicely and tows my 3.0T caravan with ease? I've owned a new 2017 Isuzu Mux and driven all the latest 4WD's. My two sons have new Navara and Hilux Dual cabs and they don't cut the mustard for me. My eldest son had a 2008 D3 2.7 HSE for a few years and it was a great family car, but he needed the dual cab ute 'cos of need to carry bikes, kayaks, etc. He kinda regrets going to the new Hilux (has had a coupla probs with it) as the D3 was so much better.

If I experience the dreaded engine blowup then I'll rebuild it, and although it will over capitalise it in the short term, I will amortise the repairs in my head (!) over several years so it doesn't seem so bad and continue to drive it knowing that I still have one of the nicest most driveable 4WD's on this planet!

Is a far better car than for example the 2012 L/cruiser 200 series with 120,000 klms at $98,000 on car sales at the moment!!
There is a 2006 L/cruiser 100 series GXL turbo diesel with under 100,000 klms for $72,000; will someone really be so silly as to pay that for a 15 yr old car???

[StephCraig]

Probably getting too far ahead of myself now with what I am about to say below, but prior retirement, in other "lives" I worked as a Head mech in a LR/RR/Jaguar dealership and later for 30 odd years as a Senior Mngr with a worldwide earthmoving manufacturer, so i have a fair idea of the processes involved here.

Ideally, your Dealership should submit a "Policy Claim" on your behalf, stating the SSM's, your car's service history etc. Then hopefully, LRA will accept it and give the authorisation for your dealership to do the repairs. Theoretically at least, it should not be necessary for you to contact LRA.

One reason why your dealer may not be "helpful" for you is the fact that they'll have to do the repairs at virtually "cost" price with labour.
In other words, rather than be able to charge you anywhere between $150-200 per hour for your "retail" job, they will only be able to charge LRA at warranty labour rates which will be vastly less (circa $60 per hour????)

So, obviously your dealership could be many thousands dollars less in income for your job!!

As I said, getting too far ahead now, but just trying to forewarn you that the dealer MAY try to do some sort of shifty work and tell you that LRA will only supply the engine FOC and you'll have to pay them the labour!

Stick to your guns, yes it will most likely be long and protracted, but as every day goes past these days, the ACCC is looking at car manufacturers a lot closer than past years which is great for the consumer.

Fingers crossed!

I shudder when reading of people's misfortunes such as yours, and my immediate reaction is to say, **** it, I'll sell the bloody thing before it bites me. (It's done 152,000 klms and been a great car) But wot car can you buy with a limited budget (Retirement!!) which drives so nicely and tows my 3.0T caravan with ease? I've owned a new 2017 Isuzu Mux and driven all the latest 4WD's. My two sons have new Navara and Hilux Dual cabs and they don't cut the mustard for me. My eldest son had a 2008 D3 2.7 HSE for a few years and it was a great family car, but he needed the dual cab ute 'cos of need to carry bikes, kayaks, etc. He kinda regrets going to the new Hilux (has had a coupla probs with it) as the D3 was so much better.

If I experience the dreaded engine blowup then I'll rebuild it, and although it will over capitalise it in the short term, I will amortise the repairs in my head (!) over several years so it doesn't seem so bad and continue to drive it knowing that I still have one of the nicest most driveable 4WD's on this planet!

Is a far better car than for example the 2012 L/cruiser 200 series with 120,000 klms at $98,000 on car sales at the moment!!
There is a 2006 L/cruiser 100 series GXL turbo diesel with under 100,000 klms for $72,000; will someone really be so silly as to pay that for a 15 yr old car???

Thank you so very much for all of your advice with regard to our horrible predicament.
We have been so unsure of how to proceed and so gobsmacked that it could happen to this prestige vehicle in the first place, that we were really feeling a bit lost.
It has really helped so much to have your insights into what might lie ahead.
Hopefully we will be starting a conversation with the parties to the process today.
Thank you again, and we’ll let you know how we get on.

[simonmelb]

Hope your discussions go well and remember to take your time, and don't get pressured into accepting anything less than zero out of pocket costs to you.

You have a legal right to a repaired or replacement engine so be prepared to push hard for your rights!

[101RRS]

I would start by having a discussion with the Office of Fair Trading ACT - I am sure they will point you in the right direction on how to go about this process. I have used them in the past to force companies to honour their warranties and obligations under the Consumer Law and they were very helpful.

Good luck with it.

Garry

[chuck]

Terrible thing to happen.

Best of luck with Landrover and a new engine.

Hope things work out as best as they can.

[scarry]

Toymota rrp is 26k for a crate motor.

RRP doesnt mean much.

They generally go for what is in my original post, depending on what state you are in,etc,etc.

[loanrangie]

RRP doesnt mean much.

They generally go for what is in my original post, depending on what state you are in,etc,etc.True but I know of someone who paid 26k and it was apparently the last motor in aus,this was late last year.

[StephCraig]

Hope your discussions go well and remember to take your time, and don't get pressured into accepting anything less than zero out of pocket costs to you.

You have a legal right to a repaired or replacement engine so be prepared to push hard for your rights!

Many thanks. All the encouragement is one great big confirmation of our What The ... Heck? Reaction to the news from the dealership.

We have our fingers crossed that JLR will do the right thing, and are much more prepared now, in case they don’t.

[Melbourne Park]

...

Is a far better car than for example the 2012 L/cruiser 200 series with 120,000 klms at $98,000 on car sales at the moment!!
There is a 2006 L/cruiser 100 series GXL turbo diesel with under 100,000 klms fo425,o0r $72,000; will someone really be so silly as to pay that for a 15 yr old car???

The dealers were allocated 200 series to run out this year (when the new model arrives without the V8 diesel) and instead of selling them for recommended retail, they are buying them and then re-selling as used vehicles with for instance 24 kilometres on them - for an extra $25,000. This gets around Toyota's recommended retail pricing ...

My local dealer (I live in Brighton Vic) a few years ago quoted me $4,240 for a left side wing mirror for a Lexus 200t Luxury Sport which had radar etc etc (my Mum's car). They also removed the cracked glass from the mirror (which was what was wrong). I asked for the mirror back, and asked to see the Service Manager. The dealer said he wasn't available. But someone came out with the mirror wrapped in brown paper. He said that they could only buy a whole mirror assembly, not the mirror only (which was cracked). There was also a tiny scratch on the fake chrome on the outside of the mirror's assembly. I took the car to a Lexus authorised repairer - they replaced the mirror, and the plastic bit on the outside of the mirror assembly, and charged me an extra $220 for labour (ordering the parts from Toyota, re-setting the codes, assembly). Total price was $530 or so. The dealer would have done the same ie put in the replacement parts - and stolen $3,700 from me (my Mum actually).

The shame is that Land Rovers have gone up a lot in price with their new engines ... although a straight six diesel does sound nice ... but hybrid technology driving across Australia, is harmful to the environment, because of the extra weight ...

Good luck with your motor - my service guy ( a Land Rover only service place in Melbourne) said over a year ago that he could get motors for $20k. I am dropping in at opening on Monday, will be begging for him to do an oil change before I drive to Darwin from Melbourne towing my Van ... I'll try hard to remember to ask him about the crank changeover policies with LR and what he has to say about it ...