Disco 4 vs new Defender comparison

[Didge]

The D4 looks good to me, especially as prices drop.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2fBTD12YtQ)

[scarry]

Yes,after living for 8 1/2 years with one,i don't think there is a better off road family touring wagon than a D4.

Huge amount of room,great tailgate set up,EAS,and good towing capacity.Powerfull and relatively frugal.

As i have said before,its a real shame it wasn't updated again,or replaced with something similar.

It appears the Defender doesn't have much more room in the rear,behind the second row of seats, than a D1.Not big enough for us,thats for sure.

[Didge]

Yeah Paul, I've been out on some pretty tough tracks with my old defender and an HSE D4 and that thing just cruised and crawled over the hardest sections of track in absolute luxury whilst us deefer drivers suffered the hardships of driving something akin to a tractor. Don't get me wrong, I love the old girl but they're rough and given my advancing years, I'm starting to want the luxury and competence of a D4. No way the cook is going to do "The big lap" in an old defender - hell, I don't want to.

[scarry]

Yeah Paul, I've been out on some pretty tough tracks with my old defender and an HSE D4 and that thing just cruised and crawled over the hardest sections of track in absolute luxury whilst us deefer drivers suffered the hardships of driving something akin to a tractor. Don't get me wrong, I love the old girl but they're rough and given my advancing years, I'm starting to want the luxury and competence of a D4. No way the cook is going to do "The big lap" in an old defender - hell, I don't want to.

Yes,had them side by side in the rough,i know which one does it easier,but in real soft sand,they are on par.

I did 100K's in the Deefer 110 today,and when i got out my ears were ringing.Could be the muddies though.[biggrin]

Oh,and all the matts were out,nothing in the back at all to absorb any noise,its stripped bare ATM.

As i said in another thread,i did six hours in it not long ago,there is no way i want to do that again.

The ride is great,long travel coils,long wheelbase,what would anyone expect,but the noise,seats,driving position,well maybe i am getting old.[bighmmm]

Or spoilt by the D4,as is SWMBO.

[cripesamighty]

I am waiting to see how much room there is in the back of the 130 when it finally appears. I currently have a D1 and D3, so upgrading to a 110 with only the rear room of a D1 is problematic for me.

[loanrangie]

I am waiting to see how much room there is in the back of the 130 when it finally appears. I currently have a D1 and D3, so upgrading to a 110 with only the rear room of a D1 is problematic for me.More room than a D1 probably closer to D2 size.

[cripesamighty]

In the side-by-side comparison the Defender’s external length looked roughly the same as the D4 if you included the rear mounted tyre. Will wait to see what the 130 turns out like to get a better idea of comparative internal volumes. Then we can gauge how close LR got the Defender’s rear space to the D3/D4’s, rather than the D2. Will be interesting to see what people prefer.

I can see history repeating (110 vs 130) where we currently compare the rear space of the D1 vs D2 for touring, and rear overhangs for the more extreme stuff. Since the new Defenders wheelbase is the same for the 110 and 130, it will be horses for courses. Let the fun begin!

[scarry]

More room than a D1 probably closer to D2 size.

Umm,maybe not.

On the Vid he measured 870mm,but to rear door seal is slightly more,maybe 900 absolute max to seal.Actual distance probably depends on how far the door protrudes inside the seal.

D1 is around 850mm,D2 is 150mm more?

Maybe someone with both could measure.

D1,D2,also have seats in rear if 7 seater,which reduce load space as they fold to the sides.
But they are easily removed.

[ramblingboy42]

isn't the 110/130 designation the wheelbase in inches for the respective model?

what does 130 represent in the new one?

[cripesamighty]

It used to be the wheelbase (roughly) in inches but they changed it for the new Defender. Now none of them equate to a wheelbase, but they are still using those designations to distinguish the different variants. The 90 is still the shorter wheelbase (101.9 inches), but now the longer 110 and 130 share a common wheelbase (119 inches), and the main distinguishing feature being a longer rear overhang for the 130 (similar to D1 vs D2). For comparison, the D1 and D2 had a wheelbase of 100 inches and the D3 and D4 had a wheelbase of 113.5 inches.

[rar110]

Yeah Paul, I've been out on some pretty tough tracks with my old defender and an HSE D4 and that thing just cruised and crawled over the hardest sections of track in absolute luxury whilst us deefer drivers suffered the hardships of driving something akin to a tractor. Don't get me wrong, I love the old girl but they're rough and given my advancing years, I'm starting to want the luxury and competence of a D4. No way the cook is going to do "The big lap" in an old defender - hell, I don't want to.

That’s why I went to a tdv8 L322. Still got a few 110s laying around. One even works. [emoji1787]

[Robmacca]

Pass... maybe when I'm old and finished doing what I love doing (ie: remote travel), then maybe I might consider something like this but then again, who knows what will be available at that time...
I can see how the D4 owners would move into the new Defender instead of the not-so-good-looking D5... they are pretty much on par but only time will tell.
ATM, I just can't see them selling in huge numbers for quite some time but I hope they do remain reliable, especially with all the high tech that's built in as it won't be cheap to replace if it was to fail outside warranty... Talking about warranty, I have not idea what period/kms they are coming out with, but if LR truly believe & stand behind their product, then they should offer a decent warranty period ie: +7yrs/unlimited kms like some of the existing car manufacturers are doing now... just my thoughts though as I have no plans to buy one anytime into the foreseeable future...

[DiscoMick]

Yes, I think you're spot on about needing a long warranty.
Kia and Hyundai overcame their cheap and nasty reputations by offering 7 year/ unlimited km warranties.
LR had a reputation for unreliability, which is probably exaggerated, but the way to kill it would be to offer a similar long warranty and back it up with a co-operative attitude and rapid replacements.

[Robmacca]

Yes, I think you're spot on about needing a long warranty.
Kia and Hyundai overcame their cheap and nasty reputations by offering 7 year/ unlimited km warranties.
LR had a reputation for unreliability, which is probably exaggerated, but the way to kill it would be to offer a similar long warranty and back it up with a co-operative attitude and rapid replacements.

Totally agree... We just purchased a Kia Cerato Hatch & I can't believe the value u get when compared to say - Toyota. 7yrs/unlimited kms - u can't really lose plus I read that Kia plans on bringing out a Dual Cab ute and because other manufacturers are looking at increasing their warranty periods that Kia will look at increasing their Warranties up to 10yrs/unlimited. Now that's having faith in your Product for sure

Landrover and a few other Brands (ie: Jeep for one) reaaly need to lift their warranty periods like Kia, etc and people will be more prone to buy one

[scarry]

Without an unlimited km 5 yr warranty,i wouldn't go near one.

For the record,with Tojo,they have had an extra two years on their warranty if the vehicle is purchased and serviced by the same dealer,for years.Actually over 10yrs.
It now brings their 5 yr warranty to 7 years,where it used to bring their 3yr warranty to 5yrs.

[AlexRS4]

Pass... maybe when I'm old and finished doing what I love doing (ie: remote travel), then maybe I might consider something like this but then again, who knows what will be available at that time...
I can see how the D4 owners would move into the new Defender instead of the not-so-good-looking D5... they are pretty much on par but only time will tell.
ATM, I just can't see them selling in huge numbers for quite some time but I hope they do remain reliable, especially with all the high tech that's built in as it won't be cheap to replace if it was to fail outside warranty... Talking about warranty, I have not idea what period/kms they are coming out with, but if LR truly believe & stand behind their product, then they should offer a decent warranty period ie: +7yrs/unlimited kms like some of the existing car manufacturers are doing now... just my thoughts though as I have no plans to buy one anytime into the foreseeable future...

I think they'll sell a lot of them. Plenty of people cashed up enough and want a good wagon that can do everything. Plenty more who will lease expensive cars to keep up with the Jones's and portray an image.

LC200 is a rort for the price and interior equipment level and doesn't look great. They still sell heaps of them.

The new Defender is a great all round car. There's no new cars that tick as many boxes overall. It's like a D4 but looks tons better and with the Defender brand strength it also gives off a more 'outdoorsy tough' image than the Disco brand ever could.

[INter674]

Without an unlimited km 5 yr warranty,i wouldn't go near one.

For the record,with Tojo,they have had an extra two years on their warranty if the vehicle is purchased and serviced by the same dealer,for years.Actually over 10yrs.
It now brings their 5 yr warranty to 7 years,where it used to bring their 3yr warranty to 5yrs.



At what cost? Mates 2014 200s has extended warranty at extra cost. Services are b expensive and even tho it is low ks and immaculate..Toyota wont extend it past 5yrs. They are now looking at aftermarket warranty due to fear of engine repair/replacement costs. The dealer also laid down conditions/recommendations other than servicing eg not drive on dusty roads/beaches. Hence they would not take it to Phillip Isl last year for fear of voiding the warranty.

It sits in the shed in the main otherwise it tows the 3t shed on sealed roads..which it does well. Trade in value will be impressive no doubt☺

[scarry]

At what cost? Mates 2014 200s has extended warranty at extra cost. Services are b expensive and even tho it is low ks and immaculate..Toyota wont extend it past 5yrs. They are now looking at aftermarket warranty due to fear of engine repair/replacement costs. The dealer also laid down conditions/recommendations other than servicing eg not drive on dusty roads/beaches. Hence they would not take it to Phillip Isl last year for fear of voiding the warranty.

It sits in the shed in the main otherwise it tows the 3t shed on sealed roads..which it does well. Trade in value will be impressive no doubt☺

No extra cost,at least that is how it is on our vans,they were the 3 yr,plus another 2yr.

I believe its the same now,with the 5 yrs,from what the local dealer has told me recently.The 5yr warranty only came in recently,i think Jan 2020?So its 5 plus 2,only from that date.

But as said,must be serviced at same dealer it is bought from.Thats what it is at our local dealer,maybe not all of them?

On another note,these extended warranties cut out the guys who are not qualified mechanics,but do their own servicing.
Many do a very good job,and at least they know it is being done properly.

[Robmacca]

The new Defender is a great all round car. There's no new cars that tick as many boxes overall. It's like a D4 but looks tons better and with the Defender brand strength it also gives off a more 'outdoorsy tough' image than the Disco brand ever could.

Really!!! How does anyone know this?? Only time will tell if that statement will become true... I wouldn't be game to touch it, little alone use it for remote travel... sure, if u are not the type of person that goes to really remote offroad places but keeps to the more populated (civilised) areas (ie beaches, local areas, etc), u might well then take the risk and buy one of the first ones off the ship.... but not for me...

If LR really want to change their public perception around the world, then they will have to start offering better warranties with a minimum of 7yr/unlimited warranty to help change people's opinions of LR... After watching a few videos on the new Defender, they have missed a golden opportunity in catering for a wide range of people.... it's solely aimed at the higher end market where people are generally not likely to stray too far off the bitumen or away from civilisation...

Look at the Toyota Landcruiser model for example. U have a vehicle model that caters for the more basic use like farmers, miners, etc (70's Cruisers), through to a model that caters for those that want more comfort; gadgets,(ie: 200's Cruisers) etc. The 70's and 200's still carry the same "Landcruiser" badge, but are built totally different (ie: RFS vs IFS). Why couldn't LR do something similar with the Defender?? Cater for ALL areas of the 4WD/AWD market. This would give them more sales overall too...

[scarry]

Why couldn't LR do something similar with the Defender?? Cater for ALL areas of the 4WD/AWD market. This would give them more sales overall too...

They used to,actually, the market they more or less pioneered,they don't have a vehicle in any more,its been handed to others.

If you have a good look at the quality control of the last run of Defenders(backed up by many including Dazza and JC on here,and the one in my driveway),its pretty obvious it was in a market they had no interest in.



Anther new Defender vid.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqebO0O-sy0)

[speleomike]

Hi all

I'm very keen on the new Defender as a replacement for my D4 in some years time. There are a few things I don't like about it though.

It hasn't got a tailgate. Just a week ago I used my D4's tailgate as my workbench whilst doing some fencing repairs. My wife and I sit on it to have a morning or afternoon coffee on a long trip or we use it as a table top for making lunch.

Also with the spare tire on the back you have to lower the spare by hand to ground level, and the flat tire has to be lifted up. With the D4 you lower by winch all the way to ground then drag it out and roll it to where you want it. The old wheel is just winched up. At my age now I can lift the tyre but older people will have to call the NRMA just to get the spare off or the flat tire back on.

162485

Mike

[Robmacca]

They used to,actually, the market they more or less pioneered,they don't have a vehicle in any more,its been handed to others.



Really? what were they called? I only know of the Defender 90/110/130's, the old Series Landies and what not...
The Range Rover & Discovery's have their own names, models etc..

When did LR do what Toyota does in regards to their Landcruiser models?

[ozscott]

I think they'll sell a lot of them. Plenty of people cashed up enough and want a good wagon that can do everything. Plenty more who will lease expensive cars to keep up with the Jones's and portray an image.

LC200 is a rort for the price and interior equipment level and doesn't look great. They still sell heaps of them.

The new Defender is a great all round car. There's no new cars that tick as many boxes overall. It's like a D4 but looks tons better and with the Defender brand strength it also gives off a more 'outdoorsy tough' image than the Disco brand ever could.The 110 looked tough. This new one doesnt to my eye. It looks...OK...not tough. Just my view of It.

Cheers

[INter674]

They used to,actually, the market they more or less pioneered,they don't have a vehicle in any more,its been handed to others.

If you have a good look at the quality control of the last run of Defenders(backed up by many including Dazza and JC on here,and the one in my driveway),its pretty obvious it was in a market they had no interest in.



Anther new Defender vid.

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqebO0O-sy0)

Not just LR that have focussed on mum's taxis..Nissan..Suzuki..Subaru and many other have vacated the utilitarian space. You could also argue that Aus is a bit of Yota loving paradise..not really reflective of the Global mkt. And there's the Taliban ...how do Toyota get away with supplying vehicles used as gun mounts to them and not incur UN sanctions😞??

Also many farmers now use eg side by sides rather than cruisers..a trend together with cheaper Asian variants or better value US imports must cut into cruiser sales. But I do hope Toyota keeps making them orherwise the aftermarket industry will collapse here.

[Robmacca]

Not just LR that have focussed on mum's taxis..Nissan..Suzuki..Subaru and many other have vacated the utilitarian space. You could also argue that Aus is a bit of Yota loving paradise..not really reflective of the Global mkt. And there's the Taliban ...how do Toyota get away with supplying vehicles used as gun mounts to them and not incur UN sanctions😞??

Also many farmers now use eg side by sides rather than cruisers..a trend together with cheaper Asian variants or better value US imports must cut into cruiser sales. But I do hope Toyota keeps making them orherwise the aftermarket industry will collapse here.

Really? how can u blame a car manufacturer for how their product is used by the end user?


I agree though... I hope Toyota don't stop making the solid front end cruisers either... along with Jeep, I think they are the only remaining 2 that make a solid front end 4wds...

[INter674]

Really? how can u blame a car manufacturer for how their product is used by the end user?


I agree though... I hope Toyota don't stop making the solid front end cruisers either... along with Jeep, I think they are the only remaining 2 that make a solid front end 4wds...

It's called international law...eg. s UK business supplying CAD machines to Iraq was stopped from exporting them because they were being used to make munitions. There are countless examples of such interventions and clearly Toyotas are being used as gun platforms.

USA makers of similar vehicles are not allowed to sell them into war zones inc Humvees etc. There's a clear lack of consistency when it's obvious that they are being used for terrorist mobility as well as gun platforms..dozens of them at a time and many shiny and new.

It's just not right😞

[rick130]

Really? how can u blame a car manufacturer for how their product is used by the end user?


I agree though... I hope Toyota don't stop making the solid front end cruisers either... along with Jeep, I think they are the only remaining 2 that make a solid front end 4wds...And the G-Wagen professional, ie the commercials.
Actually, are MB even still importing them?

[AlexRS4]

Really!!! How does anyone know this?? Only time will tell if that statement will become true... I wouldn't be game to touch it, little alone use it for remote travel... sure, if u are not the type of person that goes to really remote offroad places but keeps to the more populated (civilised) areas (ie beaches, local areas, etc), u might well then take the risk and buy one of the first ones off the ship.... but not for me...

If LR really want to change their public perception around the world, then they will have to start offering better warranties with a minimum of 7yr/unlimited warranty to help change people's opinions of LR... After watching a few videos on the new Defender, they have missed a golden opportunity in catering for a wide range of people.... it's solely aimed at the higher end market where people are generally not likely to stray too far off the bitumen or away from civilisation...

Look at the Toyota Landcruiser model for example. U have a vehicle model that caters for the more basic use like farmers, miners, etc (70's Cruisers), through to a model that caters for those that want more comfort; gadgets,(ie: 200's Cruisers) etc. The 70's and 200's still carry the same "Landcruiser" badge, but are built totally different (ie: RFS vs IFS). Why couldn't LR do something similar with the Defender?? Cater for ALL areas of the 4WD/AWD market. This would give them more sales overall too...

As many boxes isn't all boxes. Remote area travel is a niche market, the number of customers who actually buy new cars AND do that kind of travel are very few.

A car costs $1-2B to develop. You need hundreds of thousands of sales to make that up. Many regulations like crash worthiness, economy and emissions prevent

All that said - the new defender has the best capability outside a 70 series in a new car, at least on paper. Better approach angles, wading height, true tow capacity and payload (including roof payload) than a 200 series. And frankly Toyota have been taking the **** with the 200 series for a long time, the car is appalling in the quality of the interior, driving dynamics and design for what they charge for it. A LC200 Sahara is worse inside than a corolla is and miles worse to drive and live with - this is why we all drive Land Rovers right?

The biggest issue with using a new defender for remote area travel is nothing to do with the design, it's 2 things: ease of fixing on the fly which is very difficult with all modern vehicles, and parts availability.

Your concern about buying first off the line can be said of any vehicle and is a perceived quality concern (which may or may not be accurate - only time will tell).

[Robmacca]

As many boxes isn't all boxes. Remote area travel is a niche market, the number of customers who actually buy new cars AND do that kind of travel are very few.

A car costs $1-2B to develop. You need hundreds of thousands of sales to make that up. Many regulations like crash worthiness, economy and emissions prevent

All that said - the new defender has the best capability outside a 70 series in a new car, at least on paper. Better approach angles, wading height, true tow capacity and payload (including roof payload) than a 200 series. And frankly Toyota have been taking the **** with the 200 series for a long time, the car is appalling in the quality of the interior, driving dynamics and design for what they charge for it. A LC200 Sahara is worse inside than a corolla is and miles worse to drive and live with - this is why we all drive Land Rovers right?

The biggest issue with using a new defender for remote area travel is nothing to do with the design, it's 2 things: ease of fixing on the fly which is very difficult with all modern vehicles, and parts availability.

Your concern about buying first off the line can be said of any vehicle and is a perceived quality concern (which may or may not be accurate - only time will tell).

The problem with all modern cars as time goes on is that they are basically dumbing down people's driving skills...

I think I'll wait for this instead - ALL-NEW INEOS GRENADIER 4×4 WAGON AND UTE HERE SOON FROM AROUND $80K! (https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/all-new-ineos-grenadier-4x4-wagon-and-ute-here-soon-from-around-80k/?fbclid=IwAR2Y20BQamjXLCzi7O2NM7KZ4NEigCqWlUrDmqjV aBMYzkWJBtM6tSRD690) and see how it performs

[PerthDisco]

Hi all

I'm very keen on the new Defender as a replacement for my D4 in some years time. There are a few things I don't like about it though.

It hasn't got a tailgate. Just a week ago I used my D4's tailgate as my workbench whilst doing some fencing repairs. My wife and I sit on it to have a morning or afternoon coffee on a long trip or we use it as a table top for making lunch.

Also with the spare tire on the back you have to lower the spare by hand to ground level, and the flat tire has to be lifted up. With the D4 you lower by winch all the way to ground then drag it out and roll it to where you want it. The old wheel is just winched up. At my age now I can lift the tyre but older people will have to call the NRMA just to get the spare off or the flat tire back on.

162485

Mike

Absolutely why you would change this loved feature it only cheapens the car beyond the complexity cost saving of this beautiful and well sorted design not then reflected in the new car price! Lose lose

[AlexRS4]

The problem with all modern cars as time goes on is that they are basically dumbing down people's driving skills...

I think I'll wait for this instead - ALL-NEW INEOS GRENADIER 4×4 WAGON AND UTE HERE SOON FROM AROUND $80K! (https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/all-new-ineos-grenadier-4x4-wagon-and-ute-here-soon-from-around-80k/?fbclid=IwAR2Y20BQamjXLCzi7O2NM7KZ4NEigCqWlUrDmqjV aBMYzkWJBtM6tSRD690) and see how it performs

There are a massive amount fewer deaths and injuries on today's roads as a direct result of vastly improved vehicle (and tyre) design.

[AlexRS4]

Absolutely why you would change this loved feature it only cheapens the car beyond the complexity cost saving of this beautiful and well sorted design not then reflected in the new car price! Lose lose

The old defender didn't have one either, so not technically a change.

That said I agree it would have been a nice feature - I do love the tailgate on my D4.

[scarry]

There are a massive amount fewer deaths and injuries on today's roads as a direct result of vastly improved vehicle (and tyre) design.

And much better roads,better lighting,etc.

So many love the tailgate set up,as we do,its fantastic.

They could have maybe made it an option,but no that would be too hard,and the spare would have to go somewhere.

[Rolly]

Both the Classic 737 and the Defender are capable at what they do. Unfortunately time moves on. L.R chose to scrap the old Defender and bring something new from the drawingboard. I don't think the new Defender should be called that as it isn't. It's a different vehicle entirely.
Dare I say it , if Boeing had drawn a line under the 737 and brought out a new airframe they would have retained relevance and quite possibly beaten Airbus and not entered the quagmire that the Max has become.

[Robmacca]

There are a massive amount fewer deaths and injuries on today's roads as a direct result of vastly improved vehicle (and tyre) design.


True... but also if people were made to really learn how to drive and handle a car all sorts of road conditions, then that too would go towards limiting the road deaths as well...

It's always going to be a personal thing but I know which vehicle I prefer at this stage of my life... and its not one that needs to have all the bells and whistles that u see in most modern cars of today... - There's something in that old saying K.I.S.S.

Maybe when I old and less "flexible/mobile", then yes I can see myself moving towards something more comfortable...

[PerthDisco]

As many boxes isn't all boxes. Remote area travel is a niche market, the number of customers who actually buy new cars AND do that kind of travel are very few.

A car costs $1-2B to develop. You need hundreds of thousands of sales to make that up. Many regulations like crash worthiness, economy and emissions prevent

All that said - the new defender has the best capability outside a 70 series in a new car, at least on paper. Better approach angles, wading height, true tow capacity and payload (including roof payload) than a 200 series. And frankly Toyota have been taking the **** with the 200 series for a long time, the car is appalling in the quality of the interior, driving dynamics and design for what they charge for it. A LC200 Sahara is worse inside than a corolla is and miles worse to drive and live with - this is why we all drive Land Rovers right?

The biggest issue with using a new defender for remote area travel is nothing to do with the design, it's 2 things: ease of fixing on the fly which is very difficult with all modern vehicles, and parts availability.

Your concern about buying first off the line can be said of any vehicle and is a perceived quality concern (which may or may not be accurate - only time will tell).

Here you heard it first from the Car Wizard at 1:15. Best mechanic in ‘Murica

YouTube (https://youtu.be/Zf6xSVlvwaA)

[INter674]

Re the tailgate...I love it..reminds me of Holdens I owned years ago..slamming that hatch give a weird retro pleasure and makes people look around curiously🤤

But my shortish wife don't..she finds it hard to shut...it's often open afterwards😞

So I guess LR went to one peice design plus self closing because surveys told them so...its stylish and silent..just like an Audi or Merc..fits in well in Fitzroy ☺

[INter674]

Here you heard it first from the Car Wizard at 1:15. Best mechanic in ‘Murica

YouTube (https://youtu.be/Zf6xSVlvwaA)

If i was in the mkt for a LC..that's the one I'd buy..a petty..I've seen them absolutely thrashed off road and they just take it..well up to a point..something usually gives up eventually!

See the RR or Bentley in the next bay? Wonder if its an R turbo. A neighbour had one ex Pratt family..massive Garrett turbo set up. He took us for a ride and clocked 160kph on country dirt road 🤤...and the ride was freakish. No noise..no rattles..smooth as and silent even at that speed. The electro hydraulic syspension (i think) was amazing and engine power was astounding for such a huge car. He said the mags were special castings and showed us a receipt for one replacement by the Pratts costing more than a small sedan. Amazing car.

[PerthDisco]

If i was in the mkt for a LC..that's the one I'd buy..a petty..I've seen them absolutely thrashed off road and they just take it..well up to a point..something usually gives up eventually!

See the RR or Bentley in the next bay? Wonder if its an R turbo. A neighbour had one ex Pratt family..massive Garrett turbo set up. He took us for a ride and clocked 160kph on country dirt road [emoji1786]...and the ride was freakish. No noise..no rattles..smooth as and silent even at that speed. The electro hydraulic syspension (i think) was amazing and engine power was astounding for such a huge car. He said the mags were special castings and showed us a receipt for one replacement by the Pratts costing more than a small sedan. Amazing car.

Car Wizard is a spin off show of Hoovies Garage. Hoovie buys the cheapest in USA of certain classic luxury cars and takes them to the Wizard to see what they need to become reliable and work again. YouTube income funds this apparently.

There is a whole series on getting the Turbo R motor and suspension working is very interesting. Its pre diagnostic codes.

[scarry]

So I guess LR went to one peice design plus self closing because surveys told them so...its stylish and silent..just like an Audi or Merc..fits in well in Fitzroy ☺

Yes,probably,a survey sent to the around town users,they are their target market.[bighmmm]

McGovern was asked by one of the journalists why the tailgate was dropped.

He said it corrodes badly and its difficult to get the fit perfect.

What a load of absolute crap.Dont some of the latest RR models have it?

Just shows that once again they don't listen to their customers.

The 200 is one of the few wagons that still has one,as they had in earlier models,and i bet the new model will as well.Its not as good a set up,but at least its a tailgate set up.Maybe they listen to existing customers a bit more closely.

[AlexRS4]

True... but also if people were made to really learn how to drive and handle a car all sorts of road conditions, then that too would go towards limiting the road deaths as well...

It's always going to be a personal thing but I know which vehicle I prefer at this stage of my life... and its not one that needs to have all the bells and whistles that u see in most modern cars of today... - There's something in that old saying K.I.S.S.

Maybe when I old and less "flexible/mobile", then yes I can see myself moving towards something more comfortable...

Hard to argue with that. Germany has a better system on driver education.

[ozscott]

Looking forward to the new Grenadier.

Cheers

[JDNSW]

There are a massive amount fewer deaths and injuries on today's roads as a direct result of vastly improved vehicle (and tyre) design.

No. There is almost no evidence to support this. Yes, there is a massive decrease in deaths and injuries compared to the past - how massive depends on what time gap you look at. But the rate of accidents, deaths and injuries have been decreasing fairly steadily ever since statistics started being collected in the 1920s. The only innovations that made a noticeable drop below this regular decrease were seat belts and random breath testing.

Data from insurers shows that in real life, accidents and their results are surprisingly independent of the vehicle's safety features.

The reduction is almost certainly a combination of a large number of factors - attributing it to vehicle design is very one eyed. Road design and standards have possibly the largest influence - to see this effect, you just have to look at the relative safety records for divided roads against two lane roads - and freeways are even better. No such comparison can be found for vehicle standards.

Minor changes, from road edge markings, to tyre design, to road signage, curve straightening, turning lanes etc etc all have cumulative effects, and one of the most important (but almost impossible to quantify) is driver attitudes. You just have to think, for example, about the attitude to drink-driving; thirty years ago, the response to a mate getting caught would be "bad luck". Today it would mostly be "the idiot had it coming".

[Melbourne Park]

...

The reduction is almost certainly a combination of a large number of factors - attributing it to vehicle design is very one eyed. Road design and standards have possibly the largest influence - to see this effect, you just have to look at the relative safety records for divided roads against two lane roads - and freeways are even better. No such comparison can be found for vehicle standards.


Its also about the type of accident. I think modern cars are safer when they run off the road and hit a tree, hopefully at under 60KM when they hit the tree. A big tree I am talking about too.

When I bought my Prado in 1996 (I still own it too but don't drive it much) I looked at safety issues. At the time, the safest vehicles on the road according to NSW road injury and deaths statistics, 4 of the top 5 were 4WDs. A Mercedes E class type vehicle was also in the top 5. The top vehicle was a Jackaroo. For two years in a row. Obviously in a city accident, mass matters, and in the city if a car runs into the side of a vehicle, weight and height also matter.

Agree - lots of factors but a big heavy vehicle with lots of crash zones and air bags etc. is going to be safer than an old light vehicle.

[scarry]

Agree - lots of factors but a big heavy vehicle with lots of crash zones and air bags etc. is going to be safer than an old light vehicle.


It will also be safer than a late model light or small vehicle.

It’s all physics.

[Melbourne Park]

As far as replacements for my D4, I pulled into a caravan park in Euroa two weeks ago (checking up on some family history) and we stayed in the other side of the river there, and only one other van was there - an early Australian Off Road Quantum being towed by a D4 much like mine. The owner owns a considerable engineering business, has a beachfront home ( sand at his fence and right on the water in Bayside area) and talked to him about his vehicle. Incidentally his van would weigh around 2.3 tonne. He said his service people (in Seaford) told him since there was nothing at all wrong with his D4, why replace it? His mileage was over 250,000 km. And he can afford anything. For Australia, if you want to add a bullbar, increase the diesel tank size, thereby needing a rear tyre carrier, you need a chassis.

As others have said, such vehicles are not driven in much of the world the way we drive them. And the D5 does handle better than a D4 around town - its wider and lighter, so it handles better. But that is it I reckon. Same too for the new Defender.

While its a shame LR didn't just clad the D4 in aluminium, they would not have saved much weight after all. Whatever I replace the D4 with, its going to have a chassis. But hopefully I have many years before that is necessary. And I had a 150 Prado too and it drove much worse than my 1997 version, although it was marginally quieter, but it felt a whole lot cheaper, despite its Kakadu model status.

My D4 has had three problems so far: the driver's door rubber failing, and LR would not replace it despite my 5 year warranty (now expired). One of the rear seats will not fold up - not repaired by LR despite it being under warranty. And twice my gear selector had not instantly selected - I presume that will fail sometime and I'll have to put some preventative work in there for when it does.

Its a remarkable vehicle and I suspect that if ever the engine fails I'll put a replacement in it (they seem to be more available nowadays too). I changed my gearbox oil at 70k so I presume the gearbox will keep going. Mine's now got 90k on it with a lot of easy highway miles. If there was an adequate replacement available I'd have much higher mileage, but I avoid driving it round town more and more due to the lack of a decent replacement.

[INter674]

Re the rotary selector..you can confuse it if you suddenly shift from drive to reverse and back again after which it will stop working. A restart puts it right. I've done it twice now backing a trailer and being far too hasty on the gear selection...

Early versions of the system were even more sensitive to sudden selection changes.

Mine did fail but since resoldering the internals (as detailed b 4 on AULRO) it has worked fine.

I think that thread may also have mentioned the selector time constraints.

[JDNSW]

Its also about the type of accident. I think modern cars are safer when they run off the road and hit a tree, hopefully at under 60KM when they hit the tree. A big tree I am talking about too.
......

Yes - but this is where the error in deciding what causes the drop in the road toll arises. No question that the modern car is safer when it runs off the road and hits a tree, although tow things should be pointed out - anything much over 60kph and it doesn't much matter the type of car, and you do not need a a big tree. Most fatals round here are exactly this scenario, usually well over 100kph, usually about 0200, and the tree is rarely seriously damaged if it is over 150mm trunk.

But the bigger influence on whether someone is killed or injured is whether it left the road and hit the tree in the first place. And road construction, signage, and driver attitude has far more influence on this than car or tyre design.

[rick130]

It will also be safer than a late model light or small vehicle.

It’s all physics.This ^

And wasn't there an accident stat that the 110 had a better accident survival rate than most cars on the road?
Yet who would want to have a serious prang in one?? [emoji50][emoji33]

I think that could only come down to physics (mass) and perhaps crash speed, ie most Deefers aren't driven like sports cars so the speed they crash at would possibly be lower than the average?

[ozscott]

Yep front on they are tough. Roll.over not good and side impact not good for occupant protection (should be lack of intrusion with say rock sliders attached to the chassis but lack of space between the door and occupants - compared to modern vehicles) and lack of side airbags would make it a bad day out in a Deefer in a big side hit).

Cheers

[JDNSW]

Main advantage of the Defender in the statistics is that, in common with some other large four wheel drives, they have a much lower accident rate - probably because of the type of owner they attract.

[ozscott]

Yep for sure. People tend to drive live axle vehicles slower and with more care. Generalisation but true [emoji16]

[rick130]

Main advantage of the Defender in the statistics is that, in common with some other large four wheel drives, they have a much lower accident rate - probably because of the type of owner they attract.
Yep for sure. People tend to drive live axle vehicles slower and with more care. Generalisation but true [emoji16]Yep, but there's always outliers...[emoji56][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[ozscott]

Yep, but there's always outliers...[emoji56][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]You are talking about Pedro Rick? Can't be me [emoji23].

Cheers

[DiscoMick]

Yep for sure. People tend to drive live axle vehicles slower and with more care. Generalisation but true [emoji16]Not in the fast lane of the M1 here. [emoji4]

[scarry]

Not in the fast lane of the M1 here. [emoji4]

At 85km/hr,you wouldn't want to be there anyway....[biggrin]

Seriously though,i did 6hrs in ours recently,not again in a while i hope.

The trip back in the LC 76 was just luxury.

Oh,and by the way,the extra 1litre/100k,in fuel was well worth it.

[rar110]

It’s all about relativity.

I drove our perentie wagon to the middle of Australia and back, and was ready to do it again right then.

Now, 8 years later after driving that same 110 on the M1 to Coopers Plains, for about 1/2 an hour, I wasn’t game to go over 90kmh.

The new Defender will have rack & pinion steering, EAS, ABS, TRS. So will be incredibly more drivable in all conditions and will only notionally connected to the 2015 Defender, which is ok as it was a dogs breakfast at best. I could describe it worse, it was a sub optimal rather than the ultimate example of the Ford produced Defender. I think it will be historically be regarded as a second rate product, which was a terrible strategic decision by Ford for such an iconic product.

[JDNSW]

Yep, but there's always outliers...[emoji56][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Certainly - but they are just that - outliers. And these outliers do not have a significant influence on the actual accident statistics, any more than the occasional sedate driver who buys a red sports car.

Somewhere on the Monash accident research website is (or was) data confirming that based on actual statistics from insurers, the safety features of cars have less influence on their safety record than does the colour!

For decades, we have been emphasising that the 'safety' of a car is how well it helps you survive an accident, largely ignoring features that help you avoid an accident, even the very obvious ones such as painting it an easily seen colour. This has led to the other very real improvements such as driver attitudes and road improvements being glossed over.

[scarry]

the 2015 Defender, which is ok as it was a dogs breakfast at best. I could describe it worse, it was a sub optimal rather than the ultimate example of the Ford produced Defender. I think it will be historically be regarded as a second rate product, which was a terrible strategic decision by Ford for such an iconic product.

Exactly,they are actually quite a bit worse than your compliments.

Such as shame,as it was the end of an icon.When you think about it,what other company would end a vehicle run like that?

Even Dazza,and JC,guys that work on them all day,say the same.

[DiscoMick]

Certainly - but they are just that - outliers. And these outliers do not have a significant influence on the actual accident statistics, any more than the occasional sedate driver who buys a red sports car.

Somewhere on the Monash accident research website is (or was) data confirming that based on actual statistics from insurers, the safety features of cars have less influence on their safety record than does the colour!

For decades, we have been emphasising that the 'safety' of a car is how well it helps you survive an accident, largely ignoring features that help you avoid an accident, even the very obvious ones such as painting it an easily seen colour. This has led to the other very real improvements such as driver attitudes and road improvements being glossed over.Don't red cars go faster?

[DiscoMick]

It’s all about relativity.

I drove our perentie wagon to the middle of Australia and back, and was ready to do it again right then.

Now, 8 years later after driving that same 110 on the M1 to Coopers Plains, for about 1/2 an hour, I wasn’t game to go over 90kmh.

The new Defender will have rack & pinion steering, EAS, ABS, TRS. So will be incredibly more drivable in all conditions and will only notionally connected to the 2015 Defender, which is ok as it was a dogs breakfast at best. I could describe it worse, it was a sub optimal rather than the ultimate example of the Ford produced Defender. I think it will be historically be regarded as a second rate product, which was a terrible strategic decision by Ford for such an iconic product.Gotta disagree there. Our 2009 has done 70,000 ks since we bought it, and cruises just fine at highway speeds. I think it is a modern classic, and the high resale says many people agree.

[rick130]

Gotta disagree there. Our 2009 has done 70,000 ks since we bought it, and cruises just fine at highway speeds. I think it is a modern classic, and the high resale says many people agree.Taking about the general QC, build and engineering compromises/cost cutting by Ford in a lot of places weren't great.
From all accounts far, far quieter than previous incarnations though.

[scarry]

Taking about the general QC, build and engineering compromises/cost cutting by Ford in a lot of places weren't great.
From all accounts far, far quieter than previous incarnations though.

Disgraceful,is the word,Rick.

Yes i must admit it is quieter and faster than the Series 1,starts easier as there is no choke,but still bloody noisey,especially with a set of KM2's on.The ride is great,nice and smooth,and they handle pretty well.

They are not as frugal as the old models either,the D4 is way better,and the LC76 only about 1litre/100 worse on a run,about 2L at the very most around town.Although the drivability and low down torque off idle of the LC76 puts the 2.4 to shame,but the engines are completely different.

Although as Mick says they are a modern classic,with huge resale compared to other modern LR products.

But that is because there are very few around,and many people put them in the 'i just want one' category.

One of the guys at MR told me last week,priced sensibly,they do sell pretty quickly as well,particularly the later ones.

[rar110]

Gotta disagree there. Our 2009 has done 70,000 ks since we bought it, and cruises just fine at highway speeds. I think it is a modern classic, and the high resale says many people agree.

I’m glad you’ve had a good experience with you car. I’m also happy to agree the interior was nice improvement.

[rick130]

Disgraceful,is the word,Rick.

Yes i must admit it is quieter and faster than the Series 1,starts easier as there is no choke,but still bloody noisey,especially with a set of KM2's on.The ride is great,nice and smooth,and they handle pretty well.

They are not as frugal as the old models either,the D4 is way better,and the LC76 only about 1litre/100 worse on a run,about 2L at the very most around town.Although the drivability and low down torque off idle of the LC76 puts the 2.4 to shame,but the engines are completely different.

Although as Mick says they are a modern classic,with huge resale compared to other modern LR products.

But that is because there are very few around,and many people put them in the 'i just want one' category.

One of the guys at MR told me last week,priced sensibly,they do sell pretty quickly as well,particularly the later ones.Some of the things JC has seen....[emoji849]
Let's just say he's flicked me a few messages with photos and the caption "guess what this is out of?"
I didn't win anything when I answered "Puma" every time!

[scarry]

Some of the things JC has seen....[emoji849]
Let's just say he's flicked me a few messages with photos and the caption "guess what this is out of?"
I didn't win anything when I answered "Puma" every time!

I have just spent the last 3 weeks,on and off stripping one inside completely,and its about 1/2 back together.

Reminds me of the old Mecano set we had when we were kids[biggrin]

The paint on the actual body appears to be pretty good quality,but they forgot to treat a lot of the alloy pieces properly before painting.

The paint on the seat rails,brackets,etc, is just peeling off,very poorly done.Matts that go around seats and in front footwells,over transmission tunnel, are absolute rubbish quality.As is the gearstick,window rubbers,etc.

And haven't started on the mechanical stuff yet,except fluid changes.

Luckily we know a panel guy who works for himself,and knows Defenders inside out,has a steady stream of them in for repairs.
Thanks to the guys at MR auto,again.

[AlexRS4]

No. There is almost no evidence to support this. Yes, there is a massive decrease in deaths and injuries compared to the past - how massive depends on what time gap you look at. But the rate of accidents, deaths and injuries have been decreasing fairly steadily ever since statistics started being collected in the 1920s. The only innovations that made a noticeable drop below this regular decrease were seat belts and random breath testing.

Data from insurers shows that in real life, accidents and their results are surprisingly independent of the vehicle's safety features.

The reduction is almost certainly a combination of a large number of factors - attributing it to vehicle design is very one eyed. Road design and standards have possibly the largest influence - to see this effect, you just have to look at the relative safety records for divided roads against two lane roads - and freeways are even better. No such comparison can be found for vehicle standards.

Minor changes, from road edge markings, to tyre design, to road signage, curve straightening, turning lanes etc etc all have cumulative effects, and one of the most important (but almost impossible to quantify) is driver attitudes. You just have to think, for example, about the attitude to drink-driving; thirty years ago, the response to a mate getting caught would be "bad luck". Today it would mostly be "the idiot had it coming".

I didn't say vehicle design was solely responsible I said it was directly attributable. I also said vehicle design - by that I mean advances in brakes, tyres, suspension, engines etc as well as safety features. Suggesting it's all down to better roads and no drink driving is a little bit ridiculous.

Of course it's hard to attribute to one specific feature - that's what continuous improvement is all about. It's an ongoing development that drives incremental improvements, each minor on their own but adding up to a significant whole. It's same reason that they have been steadily decreasing (on a deaths per million vehicle km driven rate) since cars existed. Because we are not driving 1920s cars anymore.

[AlexRS4]

Yes - but this is where the error in deciding what causes the drop in the road toll arises. No question that the modern car is safer when it runs off the road and hits a tree, although tow things should be pointed out - anything much over 60kph and it doesn't much matter the type of car, and you do not need a a big tree. Most fatals round here are exactly this scenario, usually well over 100kph, usually about 0200, and the tree is rarely seriously damaged if it is over 150mm trunk.

But the bigger influence on whether someone is killed or injured is whether it left the road and hit the tree in the first place. And road construction, signage, and driver attitude has far more influence on this than car or tyre design.

Improvements in tyres, rain wipers, stability control, brakes, headlights and suspension all have a major impact as well.

Tried driving a country road in the dark and in the rain in a car from the 80s with old tyres, crappy headlights and crappy wipers? Much safer in a modern vehicle, if only because you can see where you're going.

Hitting a tree at 60+ yeah you're probably stuffed no matter what car you're in.

[JDNSW]

Improvements in tyres, rain wipers, stability control, brakes, headlights and suspension all have a major impact as well.

Tried driving a country road in the dark and in the rain in a car from the 80s with old tyres, crappy headlights and crappy wipers? Much safer in a modern vehicle, if only because you can see where you're going.

Hitting a tree at 60+ yeah you're probably stuffed no matter what car you're in.

But equally safe if you drive according to conditions, the vehicle you are driving and your ability. I have driven many, many kilometres in the dark and rain on country roads over the last sixty years, very little of it in post '80s cars, without accidents except for hitting (or being hit by) roos. The only other accidents I have ever been involved in were at low speed in built-up areas - two were my fault, the others were a car drove through a stop sign into the left side of me, and most recently a car ran into the back of my trailer while I was waiting to turn right. Other accidents my cars have been involved in while I was not driving were my d-i-l while learning side swiped a tree and while my car was lent to the captain of the local brigade a firetruck backed into it during a fire.

The "much safer in modern vehicles" is not supported by the actual accident data. It is if you just look at the deaths or injuries once you have an accident, but not if you look at the overall deaths and injuries per kilometre.

[Dave110HardTop]

But equally safe if you drive according to conditions, the vehicle you are driving and your ability. I have driven many, many kilometres in the dark and rain on country roads over the last sixty years, very little of it in post '80s cars, without accidents except for hitting (or being hit by) roos. The only other accidents I have ever been involved in were at low speed in built-up areas - two were my fault, the others were a car drove through a stop sign into the left side of me, and most recently a car ran into the back of my trailer while I was waiting to turn right. Other accidents my cars have been involved in while I was not driving were my d-i-l while learning side swiped a tree and while my car was lent to the captain of the local brigade a firetruck backed into it during a fire.

The "much safer in modern vehicles" is not supported by the actual accident data. It is if you just look at the deaths or injuries once you have an accident, but not if you look at the overall deaths and injuries per kilometre.

Cant put my hands on the research right now, but I think it caught my attention via motorcycle forums.

Basically, it indicated that improvements in car dynamics, braking, lights etc tend to just mean people go faster, brake later etc etc.

People are complicated and inconveniently dynamic, so its not as simple as give the person better tyres/brakes (for example), and assuming the persons behavior wont change, and they will be safer.

The theory was that people tend to have a fixed idea of what their acceptable level of perceived risk is for a given activity. Make that activity safer, and that improvement in safety is quickly countered by people changing their behavior to be at the same level of perceived risk. Note - perceived risk, rather than actual probability. Make someone feel safer, and they'll push harder. Give em ABS, they'll brake later - cos they factor it into their idea of the perceived risk of driving.

I've seen the behaviors pattern in other areas too - as I'm sure has everyone else. How many times have we tried to make something safer only to turn around and see them now doing something else daft as a result?

Its thought be one of the reasons why the seatbelt and drink driving campaigns had an impact - as well as working on the social acceptability, it also worked on changing the perceived risk involved. I guess things like road side barriers and stuff tend to mean the even if the person does run out of talent (even with ABS, tyres, headlights, ASC etc), and least when they do, they may stay on the road and not in the trees.

Its always hard to try and work out why people do stuff. Ethics committees limit the legal experimentation, so you're stuck with trailing indicators, and end up scratching your head at the data and trying to understand why we're so daft :-) Logic can lead you astray too.

I remember someone on reading the research advancing the theory that we should all ride stark bollocky naked (from memory they allowed boots) to prevent accidents. In winter. Maybe they had been single for a while, but even then, in winter, you're hardly putting your best foot (ahem) forward.

I think I'm going to stand in front of the fire now.

cheers

Dave

[DiscoMick]

I have just spent the last 3 weeks,on and off stripping one inside completely,and its about 1/2 back together.

Reminds me of the old Mecano set we had when we were kids[biggrin]

The paint on the actual body appears to be pretty good quality,but they forgot to treat a lot of the alloy pieces properly before painting.

The paint on the seat rails,brackets,etc, is just peeling off,very poorly done.Matts that go around seats and in front footwells,over transmission tunnel, are absolute rubbish quality.As is the gearstick,window rubbers,etc.

And haven't started on the mechanical stuff yet,except fluid changes.

Luckily we know a panel guy who works for himself,and knows Defenders inside out,has a steady stream of them in for repairs.
Thanks to the guys at MR auto,again.Totally agree about the mats and gear knob - they are crap.

[rar110]

Has anyone had a recent update from an Australian dealer about when the new Defender will start to arrive in show rooms here?

[scarry]

Has anyone had a recent update from an Australian dealer about when the new Defender will start to arrive in show rooms here?

Can’t help with that question,but if it can’t be delivered before 31/12/20 it’s no good to us,so we will move on to something else.[bighmmm]

[rar110]

Can’t help with that question,but if it can’t be delivered before 31/12/20 it’s no good to us,so we will move on to something else.[bighmmm]

Thanks Scarry. Are you talking to your local, city or Gold Coast dealer? I’m interested to hear how the new one compares.

[scarry]

Thanks Scarry. Are you talking to your local, city or Gold Coast dealer? I’m interested to hear how the new one compares.

Haven’t spoken to them recently as it was lots of maybes and could be,and might be,a while ago,so I gave up.

They could know more now though.

Also being quite a bit smaller particularly behind the second row seats,than the D4 has put us off as well.
Sure the 130 might be OK,but seems it’s years away,and no doubt it will be quite a bit more $ than 110,particularly with the larger diesel.

[weeman]

Has anyone had a recent update from an Australian dealer about when the new Defender will start to arrive in show rooms here?

I've been told First Editions will be arriving in August.

My order placed early June is due for delivery by end of October. Note that there is a shortage on all diesels and new orders won't be available until next year.

[rar110]

Haven’t spoken to them recently as it was lots of maybes and could be,and might be,a while ago,so I gave up.

They could know more now though.

Also being quite a bit smaller particularly behind the second row seats,than the D4 has put us off as well.
Sure the 130 might be OK,but seems it’s years away,and no doubt it will be quite a bit more $ than 110,particularly with the larger diesel.

Thanks Scarry. Sorry I wasn’t clear, do you know how the new Springwood dealer seems compared to the other established dealers.

[ramblingboy42]

Thanks Scarry. Sorry I wasn’t clear, do you know how the new Springwood dealer seems compared to the other established dealers.

they are exactly the same as all the other dealers, ring them up, form your own opinion , mine isn't very good.

do you know what waffle is?

ring them, you will find out.

[rar110]

they are exactly the same as all the other dealers, ring them up, form your own opinion , mine isn't very good.

do you know what waffle is?

ring them, you will find out.

I spoke to a salesman at Springwood about the D5 when they had a sale. He didn’t know a lot about the D5 and waffled through his limited knowledge of the L663.

[scarry]

I spoke to a salesman at Springwood about the D5 when they had a sale. He didn’t know a lot about the D5 and waffled through his limited knowledge of the L663.

Yes that’s all I got as well,sorry I didn’t read your post correctly[bighmmm]

A lot of waffle and no real info,although he did say they have difficulty selling D5 to D4 owners.Cant work out why that would be....

And as I said,no real info or time lines on new Defender.

I honestly don’t know how they sell anything,but they must I suppose.

[ramblingboy42]

I personally think a Discovery (there is no D5) is a logical step from a D4.

The vehicle is great and from all accounts is a step up from the D4.

That it's styling is something else is another thing , so is the Patrol, the Hilux and the Triton.

Don't know why the manufacturers expect potential purchasers to accept a ****ed looking shape and I believe if they'd thought about styling in the Discovery a lot more would be lining up to buy.

Lining up to buy if they have the spare dollars.

The salesman I spoke to in Springwood was smug about the cost as he said nearly all of the Discos sold have been on leases and don't directly affect the pockets of the purchasers.

so you can see the sales staff attitude to the average ocker.

And thats why so many are buying the Fords.

I have a Ranger , 5 yrs now, and Fomoco rang me yesterday and had a cheerful chat on my vehicles birthday and no bull**** , no promises , no ticklers to the new model and offered to put me on their email update program, questioned why I hadn't used the free RACQ program and I told them was nothing to use it for.

It really would be so nice to chat with the Land Rover sales guy like that.

[flotty1974]

The only way Land Rover is going to move units, is to increase their dealership. One dealer in Adelaide, really? Toyota and Nissan will always do better with their dealer network. Land Rover Australia continue to use the niche market.

[PerthDisco]

New Ford Bronco could be the one. They did develop the D3/D4 after all.

I like it a lot.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200714/e9c203fcc632ca18b7ee8fd69ab3e5ca.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200714/198eed725b1a6257ff5399dfef7c9cfb.jpg

[ozscott]

Do we get the Bronco in Australia?

[weeman]

All reports I've seen are there are no plans for RHD.

The new Bronco does look cool, but is more of a direct competitor to the wrangler. I still think the defender would make a better overland / touring vehicle

[ramblingboy42]

Do we get the Bronco in Australia?

I don't think Ford Australia would do anything to upset the sales success of the Ranger.

[rick130]

All reports I've seen are there are no plans for RHD.

The new Bronco does look cool, but is more of a direct competitor to the wrangler. I still think the defender would make a better overland / touring vehicleInitial impression is the Bronco Sport would be a direct competitor to the new Deefer.
It appears to be a rung above the Everest.

I reckon Ford Oz would be pushing hard for supply, the Bronco would be regarded as a halo car, like the Mustang.

[PerthDisco]

Initial impression is the Bronco Sport would be a direct competitor to the new Deefer.
It appears to be a rung above the Everest.

I reckon Ford Oz would be pushing hard for supply, the Bronco would be regarded as a halo car, like the Mustang.

It’s being touted as a Deefer killer in the UK with £25k 3 door entry price.

[ozscott]

It's got some decent rubber!

[INter674]

Old fashioned styling...bit IH Scout x Zook looking. I doubt it will cost 25k pounds if it has to be converted to rh drive tho....that process could add anither 10k to the price...then there's the UK reluctance to buy yank tank 4x4s in general. I doubt it will be in the same league as a LR wrt capability etc.

Bring it to Aus...it will sell well here...but hopefully it will be more reliable than the old Broncos and less of a rust bucket. We have one in the family and it is a true money pit..and amazingly parts are very hard to get n spensive too😞

[rick130]

Good they didn't go the whole retro thing, too.

Here's a new/old Bronco for comparisonhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200715/2791ba95af1ebe41d0d6e816202d80e7.jpg

Although Ford claiming it was the first SUV will have Jeep a little cranky as the Wagoneer pre dated the Bronco by two years.

[DieselDan]

Initial impression is the Bronco Sport would be a direct competitor to the new Deefer.
It appears to be a rung above the Everest.

I reckon Ford Oz would be pushing hard for supply, the Bronco would be regarded as a halo car, like the Mustang.Bronco Sport might be a competitor in terms of sales/market. I can see some people who might like the idea of off-roading being attracted to the Bronco Sport instead of the new Deefer because of the inevitably cheaper price tag.

But to say a car based on the same platform as the Focus is a rung above the Everest and a direct competitor to the Deefer is stretching it a bit [emoji38]

[rick130]

Bronco Sport might be a competitor in terms of sales/market. I can see some people who might like the idea of off-roading being attracted to the Bronco Sport instead of the new Deefer because of the inevitably cheaper price tag.

But to say a car based on the same platform as the Focus is a rung above the Everest and a direct competitor to the Deefer is stretching it a bit [emoji38]So it isn't the same platform as the 'proper' Bronco?

[DieselDan]

Speaking of the Bronco Sport I'm guessing that it might have a chance of coming here, especially if there's RHD versions available for the UK.

But the big Bronco is definitely LHD only so no chance of coming here.

If there's enough clamour for it, Ford might do what they did with Mustang and make the next version a global product rather than US-centric.

[DieselDan]

So it isn't the same platform as the 'proper' Bronco?No, proper Bronco is on a development of the Ranger's T6 platform, body on frame.

The Bronco Sport is on the C2 unibody car platform, same as the Focus, Escape etc.

[PerthDisco]

2021 Ford Bronco SUV revealed with retro styling and off-road tech | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/2021-ford-bronco-suv-revealed)