It's not looking good

[irondoc]

It's not looking good is it - if you read the posts on the UK/Defender2 forum, there are lots of little niggling issues with the 110 - door rattles, windscreen noise, leaks, electronics, etc.

All those millions of kilometres of testing they did...

cheers
Lucas

[scarry]

Nothing new there.
Have a look at the number of D5 issues,on forums.
Sure some are small,but it’s the number of silly issues which is concerning,many unresolved.

No wonder they are sticking to a 3 year warranty in Aus,when other manufacturers are offering 5 and 7 yr plans.

Seems other manufacturers are light years ahead with reducing these types of issues,and have been for many years.

[DiscoDB]

It's not looking good is it - if you read the posts on the UK/Defender2 forum, there are lots of little niggling issues with the 110 - door rattles, windscreen noise, leaks, electronics, etc.

All those millions of kilometres of testing they did...

cheers
Lucas

....so it is a real Defender after all. [emoji48]

[scarry]

....so it is a real Defender after all. [emoji48]

:Rolling::Rolling:

[ChookD2]

....so it is a real Defender after all. [emoji48]

Didn't they say there would be links to the past?

[Homestar]

Didn't they say there would be links to the past?

Probably not what they had in mind, but at least they are telling the truth. [bigrolf]

[p38arover]

It's not looking good is it?

I thought you were referring to its looks and I was about to agree with you. [bigwhistle]

Maybe it will be better in the flesh.

[100inch]

It's not looking good is it - if you read the posts on the UK/Defender2 forum, there are lots of little niggling issues with the 110 - door rattles, windscreen noise, leaks, electronics, etc.

All those millions of kilometres of testing they did...

cheers
Lucas
Whilst the Defender2 is a great forum, the new Defender section lost all credibility in my view. Bit like a 25 year old doing a 15min road tests of a new RR and giving his 'opinion'.....
There are a few owners who received theirs but a few fun facts about some of the major contributors on there:
One user signed up over 3y ago and all of his posts are negative DC100/L663 ones.
One has several thousands of posts, most with topics like word association and no a single constructive one (and I am talking the old Defender btw).
One of the harshest criticiser has his Defender classed road use only....but knows everything offroad and durability.
The pattern just goes on.
Niggles? Sure there are and there will be, but most comments are from people who never will have one, nor a Grenadier or G-wagon (actually nothing new unless in 1:43), despite being such smart marketing analysts. m

[zilch]

Whilst the Defender2 is a great forum, the new Defender section lost all credibility in my view. m

i have been a member of Martin's LR forums for 13 years (rrsport.co.uk/Disco3), and i must admit the defender2 new defender
sub group has a lot of bitter "its a pretender" traditionalist types on there. Even if you post articles from the media on why
the new defender is good, or whether the grenadier could be a very expensive play thing and not the sub 35K GBP utility they all
prayed for derives scorn from a number of "contributors"

I am glad to say a few more owners are now turning up and the level of "vitriol" is starting to dissipate ..

What is sad is that that forum is being discussed on social media groups and not favourably, so driving potential
owners and traffic away .. which is a pity, as Martin runs some very good LR online sites

[spudfan]

I too inhabit Defender2 and I agree that the section dealing with the new Defender did get a little fractious at times. Whereas I freely admit that the new Defender is not for me I enjoy reading about owner's experiences of their new vehicles. I don't call it a "PRETENDER", it is just a vehicle JLR decided to issue to replace one they discontinued. You like it you buy it, if you don't you won't buy it.
Reading posts on the car, the amount of technology included in it is frightening. Before I bought my Puma in 2008, I came on here to find out what you lot thought about it in Australia. I was driving a 200 tdi (still have it) and I wanted to see how the new vehicle stood up to your conditions. Well results in the most part were favourable so I bought one. (I have two now, there's an endorsement if there ever was one). To me at the time the potential step up to the Puma was a journey into the unknown technology wise. Heck it even had electric windows and central locking which was new to me.
I found the Puma to be a revalation. Wonderful and relaxed to drive, quiet on the road, great seats and good on the bumpy stuff as well. I did not think it was possible to do this to a Defender and keep it a "DEFENDER".
Well JLR seems to have taken the Defender to places I never thought it would go. They want it to appeal to more people, but the market they aspire to consists of people who will not tolerate the bad quality control that seems inherent in the vehicle. Simple things like ill fitting trim and leaking windows. These have been fitted to cars for years past and there is no exscuse for simple stuff like this not fitting correctly. Makes you wonder about the rest of the more complicated stuff in the vehicle.
When I bought my turbo diesel 90 new in 1990 I got a "one year comprehensive warranty" with it. With the Puma I got a THREE YEAR warranty which I thought was great! Seems the new Defender still comes with a three year warranty which is poor by industry standards especially when you realise how complicated it is.
If the new vehicle appeals to you and you buy one I hope you enjoy it for years to come. I mean we all get along with Range Rover owners, Discovery owners, Freelander owners so why not with new Defender owners. The world and this forum (and Defender2) are big enough for us all.
Before I go I admit that our traditional Defenders are not without fault (hard to believe I know) but I take solace in the fact that they are probably easier and cheaper to rectify than the other vehicles mentioned above...[biggrin]

[scarry]

Maybe they shouldn’t have called it a Defender.

It may go the same way as the Commodore,Monaro,VW beetle,and a few others that have been named after an old model run,then disappeared a few years later.

[Hagrid]

I highly doubt it. They have invested too much time and money into it. I personally think it will steal a lot of disco buyers and do really well for them, the question for me isnt where does the new defender sit, it’s where dies the current disco sit.

[Homestar]

I highly doubt it. They have invested too much time and money into it. I personally think it will steal a lot of disco buyers and do really well for them, the question for me isn't where does the new defender sit, it’s where dies the current disco sit.

Good points and I don't even think LR knows where they sit in their line up - they have too many vehicles that compete against each other already. If I had to guess, I'd say the Discovery will be dropped as the new Defender will cannibalise Disco sales IMO.

[DeanoH]

If Landrover had just called it a Disco 6 in the first place then everyone would be happy :), except of course the 'traditionalists' who would still be pining for an actual off road 4WD though there would be no 'Pretender' and no one irked by the prostitution of the Defender name :) :)


Deano :)

[scarry]

I highly doubt it. They have invested too much time and money into it. I personally think it will steal a lot of disco buyers and do really well for them, the question for me isnt where does the new defender sit, it’s where dies the current disco sit.

Lets hope that happens,and as said,the writing is on the wall for the Disco,it is also currently the lowest selling vehicle in their line up.

Yes,it doesn't really sit well in their current line up.

The New Defender 110 also has a smaller load area than the current D5 or D3/4,so that may be thought of as going backwards,if it was called a Disco.

Hopefully the 130 arrives sooner than later.Havent heard much about it lately.

One of my brothers has booked a new Defender test drive today,so see what he thinks of it,he is a LR tragic.[bighmmm][biggrin]

[Hagrid]

If Landrover had just called it a Disco 6 in the first place then everyone would be happy :), except of course the 'traditionalists' who would still be pining for an actual off road 4WD though there would be no 'Pretender' and no one irked by the prostitution of the Defender name :) :)


Deano :)

I don’t see how it is insulting to the original defender which to my understanding was an evolution of the series, to further evolve as modern requirements for safety have evolved.

I am clearly biased owning the new one and not the former, but I’d love to have a classic series (with modern running gear - like antipodean or jaunt) as well. I also
know a couple of defender owners most of which want the new one as well.

Naming rights aside, is there any doubt the new defender is a competent 4WD, yes bigger tyres may be required, but other than that it appears to be very capable, not that mine has left the black top yet as it’s in lockdown.

[DeanoH]

I don’t see how it is insulting to the original defender ....................................


Which goes to the crux of the matter, .... "you can't explain sight to a blind man", as they say. It's a bit like buying a brand new Mercedes Benz ute and when you get home realising that what you've actually got is a very expensive re-badged Nissan Navara, and look how well that little piece of marketing sleight of hand went :(

But in all fairness, the world has turned and the LR powers that be concluded that there's not enough money to be made with a simple utilitarian off road 4WD which is fair enough but strung the Defender 'traditionalists' along with the expectation that this may be the case, or perhaps the Defender 'traditionalists' just deluded themselves that this would be the case.

Either way the new Defender is what it is, a highly complex electronic masterpiece with dozens of on board computers, zero native (non electronic) off road capability and 'soft-road' wheels and tyres. It can have a lovely pair of dinky little external lunch boxes though :)

The new Defender may turn out to be the perfect vehicle for a new generation of 4WD affectionados but a seriously rugged and reliable off road vehicle (like the old Defender) it can never be and was never meant to be regardless of all the marketing hype and bull****.

I hope the new generation of Defender owners will have years of enjoyment and service from their new Land Rovers and that their ownership expectations are well and truly met :), seriously. I'll hopefully still be around in my old steam age 4WD to recover all and sundry for many more years to come :)

Deano :)

[Hagrid]

Which goes to the crux of the matter, .... "you can't explain sight to a blind man", as they say.

Call me an extremely happy blind man
Driving around in my new 110.

I suppose I find it funny because I like new cars and classic cars. Horses for courses. I love the latest 911s and the early versions. The current ones are full of electronics and the originals are simple and emotive to drive, I know which one I’d want to drive on Sunday’s and which I’d want to drive daily or even round a track.

[zilch]

zero native (non electronic) off road capability and 'soft-road' wheels and tyres.

Deano :)

all modern landies from the D3/4/5/RRS/full fat do provide an option to just select low range, switch DSC and HDC
off and just have a blast, you do not have to use Terrain response.. I have used my RRS in just pure low range
and it is still a very capable off road..

[100inch]

Which goes to the crux of the matter, .... "you can't explain sight to a blind man", as they say. It's a bit like buying a brand new Mercedes Benz ute and when you get home realising that what you've actually got is a very expensive re-badged Nissan Navara, and look how well that little piece of marketing sleight of hand went :(

But in all fairness, the world has turned and the LR powers that be concluded that there's not enough money to be made with a simple utilitarian off road 4WD which is fair enough but strung the Defender 'traditionalists' along with the expectation that this may be the case, or perhaps the Defender 'traditionalists' just deluded themselves that this would be the case.

Either way the new Defender is what it is, a highly complex electronic masterpiece with dozens of on board computers, zero native (non electronic) off road capability and 'soft-road' wheels and tyres. It can have a lovely pair of dinky little external lunch boxes though :)

The new Defender may turn out to be the perfect vehicle for a new generation of 4WD affectionados but a seriously rugged and reliable off road vehicle (like the old Defender) it can never be and was never meant to be regardless of all the marketing hype and bull****.

I hope the new generation of Defender owners will have years of enjoyment and service from their new Land Rovers and that their ownership expectations are well and truly met :), seriously. I'll hopefully still be around in my old steam age 4WD to recover all and sundry for many more years to come :)

Deano :)
You must be the offroad guru then? Seems we going the Defender2 track here too.... Better get my boots on, to step on a few more toes. m

[Hagrid]

Seems we going the Defender2 track here too.... Better get my boots on, to step on a few more toes. m

Hahah I always find it odd that people hang out in forums about something they dislike. Like on hotcopper - this stocks a dog etc... surely you have more to do.

Good luck with the new purchase. I hope you love it.

[DeanoH]

Hahah I always find it odd that people hang out in forums about something they dislike. Like on hotcopper - this stocks a dog etc... surely you have more to do ........................

An interesting though perhaps unfortunate response. As a newbie you would do well to read the rules and guidelines (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/rules-and-guidelines/), AULRO is not like "hanging out on any other forum" where flaming and abuse can be the norm. On AULRO informed (though sometimes otherwise :)) debate is encouraged. Playing the man and not the ball is un-acceptable and most definitely against the rules and indeed the culture of AULRO. This IMO is what puts AULRO head and shoulders above other forums. Disagreement and often heated debate is sometimes the result but rebuking someone for merely having a say or expressing a different view is not what AULRO is about :)

This thread is about the new Defender and entitled 'It's Not Looking Good' so hardly out of place to compare the attributes (or otherwise) of both old and new models. Though the new Defender is not on my shopping list (it is aimed at a totally different demographic) I understand that for some it may appear to be "the bees knees", I just hope it lives up to expectations as it could be a very expensive oops if it does not.

Again, congratulations on your new Defender, I hope it is all you want it to be :)

Deano :)

[scarry]

all modern landies from the D3/4/5/RRS/full fat do provide an option to just select low range, switch DSC and HDC
off and just have a blast, you do not have to use Terrain response.. I have used my RRS in just pure low range
and it is still a very capable off road..

Just being picky,some of the vehicles in those models do not come with low range,unless optioned up.

[DeanoH]

You must be the offroad guru then? Seems we going the Defender2 track here too.... Better get my boots on, to step on a few more toes. m

Also an interesting response, you seem to have taken offense to my line.........."The new Defender may turn out to be the perfect vehicle for a new generation of 4WD affectionados" ....., (your highlighting and underscoring). This is not meant to be in any way derogatory. An affectionado is someone who greatly appreciates something or is it just my spelling (more correctly spelt aficionados) that you dislike ?

Similiarly my line ......... "I'll hopefully still be around in my old steam age 4WD to recover all and sundry for many more years to come :)" ....., again your bold type. Can't see what the problem here is, all and sundry meaning everyone. Note the smily emoticon :), denoting a bit of fun, ending on a humorous high note etc.

As for (4WD) off road gurus, there's only two I'd put in that bracket Len Beadell and Reg Sprigg and I'm certainly not in that class :) (note the emoticon), though I do have many years off road experience in rural and remote outback Australia in particular with Landrover, Jeep, Toyota and others so yes I do think I have a bit of a clue as to what will work back of beyond and what will not, though a Guru I am not :)

As for ................. "Better get my boots on, to step on a few more toes", I guess you just forgot the emoticon .......... right :) .

I also wish you all success with your new Defender should you decide to go down this path and look forward to you sharing that experience on this forum :)

Deano :)

[zilch]

Just being picky,some of the vehicles in those models do not come with low range,unless optioned up.

for those who wish to nit pick [bigsmile] lets just say the majority of those models below which come with low range (assume later
model RRS are the likely suspects were it is optioned) are more than capable to operate without the TR settings
being selected

[Hagrid]

An interesting though perhaps unfortunate response. As a newbie you would do well to read the rules and guidelines (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/rules-and-guidelines/), AULRO is not like "hanging out on any other forum" where flaming and abuse can be the norm. On AULRO informed (though sometimes otherwise :)) debate is encouraged. Playing the man and not the ball is un-acceptable and most definitely against the rules and indeed the culture of AULRO. This IMO is what puts AULRO head and shoulders above other forums. Disagreement and often heated debate is sometimes the result but rebuking someone for merely having a say or expressing a different view is not what AULRO is about :)

This thread is about the new Defender and entitled 'It's Not Looking Good' so hardly out of place to compare the attributes (or otherwise) of both old and new models. Though the new Defender is not on my shopping list (it is aimed at a totally different demographic) I understand that for some it may appear to be "the bees knees", I just hope it lives up to expectations as it could be a very expensive oops if it does not.

Again, congratulations on your new Defender, I hope it is all you want it to be :)

Deano :)

Hi Deano,

Post wasn’t directed specifically at you or this forum was actually a more general response to the overarching negativity of some posters that I have seen in sub forums that are specifically for post related to the new defender.

I was responding to the “step on toes” comment from The poster I quoted.


As I said I don’t understand how someone can be so passionately against the car to bother spending so much time posting negatively on it. If I didn’t like the car I wouldn’t frequent the forum as often.

Surely in the same vain voicing my opinion Isn’t against the rules.

[DeanoH]

Aah Hagrid, to mis-quote ............. "hell has no fury like a Defender devotee scorned". Us Land Rover owners are certainly a weird mob. I apologise if I mis read your post, certainly no offense meant :)
There's been a long and furious debate going on here regarding the merits (or otherwise) of the new Defender. A bit like a Holden / Ford argument on steroids :angry2:.

Although I am basically a Defender traditionalist re the 'prostitution of the Defender name/legacy to a bloody hair-dressers SUV' :) :) (please note the emoticons) :) I'm fully aware that the world and 4WD owners have moved on from the hair shirt days of Series/Defender ownership. There is simply insufficient market for such a vehicle, like the dinosaur it's seen it's day, regardless of Ineos dreamers :(

Not only has the old Defender seen its day 4WD'ing has changed too. No longer is it necessary or expected for a remote traveler to have a simple easily self repaired vehicle at risk of ones life, or worse scorn by ones contemporaries for irresponsibly relying on others to get you out of trouble. :(
Communications has improved, roads/tracks have improved, vehicles have improved, there are more people out and about and there's more services available for the traveler/4WD'er. Not only has the culture changed but life the risk has lessened. I still remember the Page family's deaths on the Birdsville Track in the early '60's and the death of others in later years. Comms is cheap and available, there is much more passing traffic so the requirement for absolute (vehicle) self reliance is no longer so much a life and death issue. The underlying premise here of course is that a complex electronically controlled vehicle is more prone to 'failure to proceed' issues than a more basic vehicle.

The availability and general acceptance that it's OK to carry and activate an EPIRB if in trouble rather than being completely self reliant, sort of a 'get out of jail free' card so to speak, also adds to contemporary 4WD culture. One result is the Defender Mk.2, a highly complex vehicle heavily reliant on its many computers for its off road capability's. Not only is mechanical reliability necessary for its effective operation but electronic reliability as well, unlike its more spartan predecessors.

I have chosen the less sophisticated non electronic and lets face it, less luxurious path, a path that I am comfortable and at ease with and eschew the complexities and IMO inferior reliability of the more modern 4WD such as the new Defender. The difference is that, I'm not so arrogant that I think I've got THE right solution. For others the new Defender may be THE right solution, I trust they will be equally tolerant of differing views :)

Even so, I find it hard not to feel just a little smug when coming to the aid of travelers with failed electronic marvels, but at the end of the day modern 4WD or not a ruined holiday is still a ruined holiday :(

Deano :)

[spie]

A bit like a Holden / Ford argument on steroids :angry2:.

I think FORD have won that argument :wasntme: