Fittting a Holden 179 in a S2a 109 Station Wagon

[Mike Att]

I’ve got a S2a 109 SW which was originally a 6cyl but has currently got a terrible Nissan TD23 diesel engine in it. It’s underpowered and incredibly noisy

I have just picked up a Holden HP Red 179 which I am going to be fitting

Being in the UK I’m new to the Holden engines but I do have a Chevy 3100 which has a 261 which is very similar

Has anyone got any pointers of what to look out for fitting the 179?

As soon as I’ve found somewhere to host my pictures I will add them to the post 👍

[Mike Att]

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[Mike Att]

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[bemm52]

Where did you find a Holden motor in UK they must be rare, 179 would be early to mid sixties I’m guessing.
Engine mounts need to be changed I have some here I could photograph if you want but I’m sure there would be images on the net.
Its a very common conversion here but be aware speed is restricted to gearbox and diffs so your not going to get any gains in that area.

Cheers Paul

[1950landy]

Was going to ask same question. The Holden will not do the gearbox any favours.

[Loading...]

I follow your page on Instagram, great content!!

[gromit]

The link in the 'sticky' section has the instructions for the Johnston's conversion which might help.
Links and Downloads Manager - Australian Land Rover Owners (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=7&id=53)

Lots done in Australia in period because plenty of s/h Holden engines available whereas reconditioning a Land Rover motor would have been more expensive. Alignment of the adaptor to the gearbox mainshaft seems to have caused problems with some conversions.
I've personally never driven one with a Holden Motor, I've parted three out and each time the motors went to a mate who plays with older Holdens.
I could probably get a conversion plate from my mate but they are a heavy lump to ship.

The fact that you are starting with what was a 6-cylinder Land Rover gives a bit more room. A lot of 4-cylinder LR's converted here and the front crossmembers tend to get chopped out. The last one I parted out had the top cut out but wasn't boxed in and no drain holes added so it rotted out !

If it was me I'd be looking for an original 6-cylinder motor but they are more common here because they were fitted to the Army Series III's. Parts are getting scarce (read expensive) but I guess they are even less common and more expensive in the UK. The other problem is you need a fuel tanker following you on a trip because they are a bit thirsty......


Colin

[Homestar]

Welcome along - the 179 is a good match for a series and despite what others have said here, the gearboxes can live a long and happy life behind one - the run out between engine and gearbox needs to be spot on and this has caused many failures over the years - easy enough to check with a dial indicator when fitting them together.

You will need different engine mounts and a flywheel adapter. Given so many of these were done here in Aus over the years, these items are still kicking about - an ad in the wanted section here might unearth what you need.

If you need any parts for the 179, they are generally available over here and are a simple and easy engine to work on.

If your vehicle was a factor 6 like you said, its an easier job regarding the length of the engine as the firewall is different and allows the engine to sit back where it's needed - if you do this conversion in a 4 cylinder you need to cut an inch or so out of the front crossmember to make it fit, but you shouldn't have that issue.

Overall it's not a difficult job, but your distance to parts might cause you some delays as far as obtaining what you need.

Good luck, sing out if you need more info - I've done this conversion in both a 4 and 6 cylinder series over the years and worked and rebuild heaps of the Holden red 6's. Look forward to your progress.

Cheers.

Edit - Gromit beat me to some of the info - I was slow in typing while on a teams meeting this morning. [biggrin]

[101RRS]

The Holden motor is really not a good fit for a LR without the addition of O/d or high speed diffs - doesn't rev enough to suit the LR gearing.

I had a 161 in my first LR and it was Ok but no better than the 2.25LR engine in my later Series 3.

I would be looking at something home grown like a Rover 3 litre six which would be better suited.

Garry

[Mike Att]

Thanks for all the replies 👍

The 179 popped up on EBay, thought it sounded interesting and was a good price so decided to give it a go

I think this engine or a derivative was fitted to some Vauxhall’s in the UK so I’m hoping I might be able to get some basic service parts here in the UK

The engine was previously fitted to a S1 Land Rover and comes with the mourning plates for that which should be a good start

I just received further pics of the engine, I’m hoping to get it shipped to me ASAP

The 109 was originally a 6cyl so has the extra space at the bulkhead and covers, it also has the Fairey Overdrive fitted. It currently has a Salisbury axle but that will get changed over to Rangerover Diff when possible

[Mike Att]

Where did you find a Holden motor in UK they must be rare, 179 would be early to mid sixties I’m guessing.
Engine mounts need to be changed I have some here I could photograph if you want but I’m sure there would be images on the net.
Its a very common conversion here but be aware speed is restricted to gearbox and diffs so your not going to get any gains in that area.

Cheers Paul

Hi Paul

every bit of info will be useful so yes please to the engine mount pics 👌

[Mike Att]

I follow your page on Instagram, great content!!

Thanks 👍

If anyone else wants to see more pics of the 109 that the 179 is going into my account name is Mike Att

[Bigbjorn]

179 with HP casting mark was for a manual transmission used in EH & HD 1964-65.

[101RRS]

I think this engine or a derivative was fitted to some Vauxhall’s in the UK so I’m hoping I might be able to get some basic service parts here in the UK

No that is not the case - nothing in common with the Holden six and GM Uk engines.

[Discodicky]

The Holden motor is really not a good fit for a LR without the addition of O/d or high speed diffs - doesn't rev enough to suit the LR gearing.

I had a 161 in my first LR and it was Ok but no better than the 2.25LR engine in my later Series 3.

I would be looking at something home grown like a Rover 3 litre six which would be better suited.

Garry

I agree with you here. Back in 1978 I removed the 4 cyl LR engine from my S2A 109 and fitted a 186 Holden engine. Conversion is quite straightforward but the cooling fan on the water pump is too low and doesn't sit central in radiator. I cut the fan blades etc but still had to fit an electric fan in the front in order to get adequate cooling here in Tasmania. The Holden 6 cyl is great for hills etc but in the bush is much worse. I fitted a Fairey o/drive but of course your top speed is governed by diff ratio. The LR clutch and pressure plate is much nicer feel than if you use the Holden components. Questionable whether the Fairey OD can handle the 6 cyl torque as it is I believe based on Rover 2000 (car) g/box bits and in my opinion a bit fragile, I've rebuilt a few over the years. Mine only lasted about 20,000 klms before exploding and it was noisy/whining even with different oil choices. Rover 3 litre with a very mild camshaft improvement to give more torque and a little more hp would be better choice IMHO.

[Homestar]

The OD can handle a Holden 6 no probs as long as you’re not stupid with it - ran one on a very healthy 202 for years without issues - around 50KKM I did in that and apart from a couple of broken axles, it was fine. That’s assuming it’s in good condition to start with and you don’t use it in every gear - just in 3rd and 4th at highway speeds. It’s completely out of the gearing when disengaged so only high revs and high loads will kill it.

Thousands of LR’s were converted to these engines - were they ideal? Not by a long way but they were very functional for what they were.

Also, if you want to sit on 100kph on the highway for 100’s of KM at a time, these aren’t the vehicle you use after all, although I’m happy to do this with my 101, I drive at 85 to 90 which is where it’s happiest at. [emoji106]

[Mike Att]

The most common Series engine conversion in the UK is the 200tdi which a lot of people have done very successfully. The output of these isn’t to far from the 179 with the 200tdi having slightly more Torque so hopefully we should be ok

200tdi: 113hp / 195lb Ft
179: 115hp / 175lb Ft

Because of the popularity of the 200tdi they are now getting hard to source with prices getting high

[bemm52]

Looks like you may be buying Holden parts from Aus, usually we are buying Landy bits from UK

will photograph mounts tomorrow

Cheers Paul

[bemm52]

My mounts are for a 2.25 4 cylinder Rover to Holden so photos won’t help you

163147 From Johnson catalogue at beginning of this section
bottom set of pictures are for six cylinder chassis mounts

Cheers Paul

[Mike Att]

My mounts are for a 2.25 4 cylinder Rover to Holden so photos won’t help you

163147 From Johnson catalogue at beginning of this section
bottom set of pictures are for six cylinder chassis mounts

Cheers Paul

Thats a great bit of info, thanks for sharing 👌

[Mike Att]

Looks like you may be buying Holden parts from Aus, usually we are buying Landy bits from UK

will photograph mounts tomorrow

Cheers Paul

Yes I’m going to have to place a order for all the service parts from Aus, who would everyone recommend to buy them from?

[mick88]

The "HP" were the first of the 179 motors fitted to the EH Holden which until then were only 149 cubic inch, so the HP meant they were the Higher Performance option engine. Later in the production of the EH model the engine blocks were cast with the actual cubic capacity of the engine on the left hand side.
They are a good strong engine (2890 cc) and go well and will easily handle a diff upgrade or a transfer case upgrade (high speed).
If bored out to 0.060" oversize (3.625") they are equivalent to a 186 in capacity.
The hydraulic lifters are the reason for rev limitations, but solid lifters can be fitted or a common conversion by the rev heads back in the day was to remove the internals of the hydraulic lifter and fit a piece of solid bar. Remember these engines and their red cousins ran at 6000-7000 rpm all day in the old Bathurst 500 mile Races (now the 1000) around Mt Panorama in New South Wales.
Some conversion kits supplied a heavier flywheel (Red Six is 11kg) which made a huge difference to the low rev range torque of the Holden Six, some conversions utilised a Land Rover 2.25 flywheel (14kg) but they still ran the Land Rover starter motor. The conversion kits with heavier purpose built flywheel are the go, as the purpose built flywheel is slightly larger in diameter across the clutch face and is drilled to accept a Land Rover 9.5" pressure plate. In saying this a red motor flywheel can be drilled for the 9.5" pressure plate PCD, but the drill holes are close to the outer edge. A Johnson Conversion Kit that was produced for the series 3 era would be your choice, cast iron adapter plate and accurately made, along with purpose built flywheel for the 9.5" clutch. I am currently making up modified 2.25 flywheel that runs the Holden ring gear, but i still have to trial it in a vehicle, which i hope to do in the not too distant future.
If you drive the vehicle in a sensible manner you wont blow the gearbox, it's how you use the loud pedal that does that, plus you need the throttle linkage set up so that you have plenty of pedal movement, nice long progressive acceleration, not a half inch of pedal movement from idle to full stick. A bit of tweeking and sensible thinking about setting up the throttle linkages and it can be done.
In my opinion a set of 3.54 diffs make a huge difference to a Holden powered Landy as they slow the drive train speed down and they give a bit of load to the engine, thus making the vehicle much quieter to drive, a bit like the difference between driving your Landy around empty, or heading off on a trip fully loaded, they always seem to run quieter and smoother.
A Crow towing or torque cam is a good option for a Holden Six in a series Landy or even a cam to suit an EFI Holden straight six, as they are a similar grind.

From the Crow catalogue:
Number 35613 Hi torque cam, suit towing good economy, rev range 1200 - 3900.
Number 35678 STD replacement cam, suit EFI engine, rev range 850 - 3500

Given that your vehicle was a six cylinder you will need the long engine mounts which you should be able to pick up easily here in Australia.
Not the end of the world if you can't find any, they can be easily fabricated, and if doing this i would make them so that the engine sits lower, not kicked up at the front like most conversions are (as the Holden red engine sits up in Holden vehicles).
The other thing you will need is the right spigot bush to go into the rear of the crankshaft if the flywheel in the conversion you pick up does not have one fitted in the center (some do, some don't, in the flywheel is the better option). Alternatively you can get a stock Holden spigot bush and machine the center out to 7/8" dia., not ideal to turn sintered bronze, but it does work without any real issues.
I will post some pics of the six cylinder engine mounts. These are cast, but the majority around are fabricated from 8-10 mm flat steel.
Good Luck and enjoy your Holden powered series Land Rover.

Added some pics i took today of a fabricated set on a 202 Holden engine conversion.

[mick88]

Thanks for all the replies 👍

The 179 popped up on EBay, thought it sounded interesting and was a good price so decided to give it a go

I think this engine or a derivative was fitted to some Vauxhall’s in the UK so I’m hoping I might be able to get some basic service parts here in the UK

The engine was previously fitted to a S1 Land Rover and comes with the mourning plates for that which should be a good start

I just received further pics of the engine, I’m hoping to get it shipped to me ASAP

The 109 was originally a 6cyl so has the extra space at the bulkhead and covers, it also has the Fairey Overdrive fitted. It currently has a Salisbury axle but that will get changed over to Rangerover Diff when possible

That should be a good conversion as it has the Land Rover flywheel which has been drilled to suit the Holden and an adapter boss made up, it will pull nicely at low revs. It looks to be a simple conversion using just a steel plate to mate the Land Rover flywheel housing to the Holden engine and use the Land Rover starter motor.
If the motor is in good nick and runs well you are pretty well set, but you will just need the engine mounts to suit a six cylinder conversion or knock up a set which is not hard to do.
Also you will have to get your radiator outlets changed to suit, plus get suitable hoses. Dayco do a wide range of flexible hoses in various sizes and lengths.
Dayco - Radiator Hose - Flex Dayco(R) (https://dayco.com.au/products.aspx?G=16002215&P=16027751&fbclid=IwAR2vAk3zSKY8_Dn4MCLd2_33svsdn7rNLmsCDZhac 2yn4mN0apl8Sg3Nb8Y)

If you want to improve on the engines performance an electronic ignition makes a big difference and they are readily available.

Cheers, Mick.

[Mike Att]

That should be a good conversion as it has the Land Rover flywheel which has been drilled to suit the Holden and an adapter boss made up, it will pull nicely at low revs. It looks to be a simple conversion using just a steel plate to mate the Land Rover flywheel housing to the Holden engine and use the Land Rover starter motor.
If the motor is in good nick and runs well you are pretty well set, but you will just need the engine mounts to suit a six cylinder conversion or knock up a set which is not hard to do.
Also you will have to get your radiator outlets changed to suit, plus get suitable hoses. Dayco do a wide range of flexible hoses in various sizes and lengths.
Dayco - Radiator Hose - Flex Dayco(R) (https://dayco.com.au/products.aspx?G=16002215&P=16027751&fbclid=IwAR2vAk3zSKY8_Dn4MCLd2_33svsdn7rNLmsCDZhac 2yn4mN0apl8Sg3Nb8Y)

If you want to improve on the engines performance an electronic ignition makes a big difference and they are readily available.

Cheers, Mick.

Thanks Mick

shopping round for a good supplier of parts in Aus at the moment, will see if I can get an electronic ignition at the same time

[mick88]

Thanks Mick

shopping round for a good supplier of parts in Aus at the moment, will see if I can get an electronic ignition at the same time


Let me know if you need anything, plenty of suppliers of good quality parts here in my local area.
Always glad to assist/help you if need be.

Cheers, Mick.

[Mike Att]

Let me know if you need anything, plenty of suppliers of good quality parts here in my local area.
Always glad to assist/help you if need be.

Cheers, Mick.

Thanks Mick much appreciated 👍

[shack]

What's the benefit of the Range Rover diff over the Salisbury?

[JDNSW]

What's the benefit of the Range Rover diff over the Salisbury?

Higher geared. But if you change to the Rangerover diff you have to either deal with the change to discs and the different track, or put the diff into a Rover back axle off an earlier 109.

Probably easier (but still not easy) to fit a 110 diff centre to the salisbury axle, and change the front diff centre to a Rangerover one.

[Homestar]

What's the benefit of the Range Rover diff over the Salisbury?

Sals is a stronger diff but has less ground clearance. I think the Rover diffs have a greater range of ratios to choose from.

[Mike Att]

Well the engine is now at my place

After a good clean it looks to be in good condition and serviced shipping except for a smashed distributor cap

next job is to get the sevice parts ordered

[Mike Att]

Can anyone tell me if these units are any good?

I need a coil, cap, points & condensor so figured I might as well swap out the whole unit

HOLDEN electronic distributor 138 149 161 179 186 202 with coil | eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262665380248)