Gas Cylinder Hire or Buy

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I was at my local Bunnings store yesterday and I had a look at the gas cylinder hire service for "D" size Argon/MIG + Oxygen and Acetylene. This would have meant a $200 per bottle contract fee; so that is $600 gone before a bottle is taken home. Then there are the varying costs of each different bottle of gas that had to be paid each time a cylinder is exchanged.

Another mob offered me a yearly contract that included a set level of exchange cylinders throughout the year. This was in the first couple of months of this year when stores were first starting to take on COVID 19 prevention strategies. At this time talking was kept to a minimum from the side of the building over a barrier. A lot of detail was lost so I can not remember the exact terms and conditions.

A local privately owned gas supplier in town offers the ability to buy cylinders - except Acetylene for some reason?

What do people here on the forum do for their MIG Welding and for their Oxy/Acet rigs for their gas supplies?

Kind regards
Lionel

[Homestar]

Depends on how much gas you use. I used to hire MIG mix and Oxy Acetalyne but for what I use I bit the bullet and bought my own cylinders - I also went up to an E size for everything as you get around twice the gas as a D for not much more - bottles are a little more to buy. If you’re going to go through a bit then hire can be a suitable option.

When you hire, the gas is much cheaper, but they get you with the ongoing cost which adds up if you’re just a hobby welder doing work on the weekends.

I looked at Bunnings but went with Total Tools in the end only because my local Total tools is easier to get to than Bunnings. D size of Argon or Mig mix is $299 including the bottle the first time then $99 exchange after that. E size is $475 first up then $159 exchange so gas is a lot cheaper after the initial outlay. Bunnings prices are about the same price.

I get around 6 to 8 months from my E MIG mix which is the one I use the most, My Argon is still half full after 2 years and my oxy acetylene about the same, so paying rent on those ones particularly would aggravate me with how little I use them.

IMO if you can afford the extra dollar go an E size - they do take up a bit more room and don’t fit the small welding carts but worth it, they will give you a good excuse to use your welder and make up a nice new custom welding cart. 👍

[cjc_td5]

The $200 Bunnings charge is a bottle deposit, not a fee. You get it back if you take the bottle back. Once you have the bottle, it is $100 ish to exchange it for a full one.

Chris

[Homestar]

The $200 Bunnings charge is a bottle deposit, not a fee. You get it back if you take the bottle back. Once you have the bottle, it is $100 ish to exchange it for a full one.

Chris

Yes, that’s right and brings up a good point - if you think you won’t need them long term, you can return them back at Bunnings and get you dollars back, I don’t think that’s the case for Total tools, but I’m never going to need to do that, but worth the thought there if you think it may not be a long term type of deal.

[trout1105]

A lot of the local farmers here are using LPG in the 9kg bottles instead of acetylene .
This way you only have to hire/buy the oxcy bottle[thumbsupbig]

[Toxic_Avenger]

A lot of the local farmers here are using LPG in the 9kg bottles instead of acetylene .
This way you only have to hire/buy the oxcy bottle[thumbsupbig]

The logic is sound if you only want to cut.
If you want to weld or braze, acetylene or GTFO.
The devil in the detail is that the Air:fuel ratio for Oxy/LPG is 4:1, but close enough to 1:1 for oxy/acetylene. Plus higher heat density etc etc etc.


On the topic of 'buying a bottle' just be aware that it's a very warped concept of 'ownership'. ie you don't own crap, you are just buying subsidizing the purchase of their assets, and buying the right to swap the bottle you have with their fleet of fulls.

The company you likely spoke to Lionel, also now offers a lump sum payment for the gas and cylinders up to 3 years. No deposit... ask them about it.

[POD]

I paid rental to BOC for years on an argoshield E cylinder and it hurt every time the bill came for 'maintenance' on THEIR bottle that I was also paying the mongrels RENT on. When I needed a new cylinder a couple of years ago, I rang them up and they were so sure that they could offer me a great deal, but they could not even come close to what the local industrial supply could offer me on a bottle purchase. The annual rental includes one free swap, and is about the same money as I was paying just for a refill with BOC. Can't recall the exact figures but it was a mammoth difference and the initial purchase would be recouped in about 3 years of my normal use.
I'm probably like a lot of hobbyists, my welder will sit for months with very little use, then every now and then i'll have a project like a trailer build or my current front-end-loader rebuild and will use it constantly for days on end. The bottle purchase arrangement suited this kind of use perfectly.

[Toxic_Avenger]

It's all about perceived value, and unfortunately you don't fall into the group of people that reap value from having a cylinder sitting idle in a shed.
Heck, I'd love a 1000HP trophy truck, but I'd have no use for it and any money I were to spend on that truck would be an economic 'bad deal'.

I think most out there would be humbly shocked to know what it really costs to own/maintain/distribute a cylinder. Definitely not the sort of cost an individual would want to take on once it was all laid out. Hence why rental makes sense for distributing all these costs across a large fleet of cylinders and leveraging the economies of scale.

[trout1105]

The logic is sound if you only want to cut.
If you want to weld or braze, acetylene or GTFO.
The devil in the detail is that the Air:fuel ratio for Oxy/LPG is 4:1, but close enough to 1:1 for oxy/acetylene. Plus higher heat density etc etc etc.


On the topic of 'buying a bottle' just be aware that it's a very warped concept of 'ownership'. ie you don't own crap, you are just buying subsidizing the purchase of their assets, and buying the right to swap the bottle you have with their fleet of fulls.

The company you likely spoke to Lionel, also now offers a lump sum payment for the gas and cylinders up to 3 years. No deposit... ask them about it.

Not too many people weld with oxy any more around here and with the popularity of polly/pvc pipe and compression fittings for copper pipe work brazing isn't needed either.
On farm welding is done by mig/stick welders and the oxy set is used primarily for cutting and heating applications.
You would be hard pressed to find an oxy welding tip in a farm workshop these days.

[Homestar]

Not too many people weld with oxy any more around here and with the popularity of polly/pvc pipe and compression fittings for copper pipe work brazing isn't needed either.
On farm welding is done by mig/stick welders and the oxy set is used primarily for cutting and heating applications.
You would be hard pressed to find an oxy welding tip in a farm workshop these days.

Probably right - I do because I always have and aren’t too shabby with it - I also Silver Solder things a bit which required more heat that a map torch can produce.

I probably do TIG more as well these days.

[p38arover]

I've thought about getting oxygen and acetylene again. I suppose my regulators are still suitable. I have this style of CIG reg: https://www.ebay.com.au/i/283957520089

[FisherX]

I switched to BOC on their gas plans for my TIG Argon. E size bottle $199 per year and you get a free refill. The only draw back is you have to return the bottle after 12 months even if it full and start again.

BOC Gas: Fill For Less - Gas deals from $79/year (https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/fill-for-less?gclid=CjwKCAjwj975BRBUEiwA4whRB5jJ022XpSbKtYE RQjmd8biGFcjxiSgugNukoW2XwEL62r6Wcz7sgBoCl_IQAvD_B wE)

[p38arover]

I didn’t know about those deals - thanks for that info.

[gromit]

Was renting an argon CO2 mix from BOC. Monthly charge kept creeping up and often the bottle wasn't filled from year to year.

Recently inherited 2 Hare & Forbes bottles so effectively free, just need to pay for the refills now.
Also inherited an oxygen bottle I think is from Total Tools,

When I took my BOC bottle back they had a 'deal' for bottles on an annual fee (not sure if this is still going). A 'D' size was about $100 which was supplied full and one free refill during the year.

I also now have access to a 3-phase Kempi welder at work, I often tack at home and then take the job to work to finish. Saves on gas & wire [bigwhistle]


Colin

[Toxic_Avenger]

I switched to BOC on their gas plans for my TIG Argon. E size bottle $199 per year and you get a free refill. The only draw back is you have to return the bottle after 12 months even if it full and start again.

BOC Gas: Fill For Less - Gas deals from $79/year (https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/fill-for-less?gclid=CjwKCAjwj975BRBUEiwA4whRB5jJ022XpSbKtYE RQjmd8biGFcjxiSgugNukoW2XwEL62r6Wcz7sgBoCl_IQAvD_B wE)

Incorrect.
There is an included fill for each 12 month period, and the plan will roll over just happily with no intervention from the user. The refills do not accumulate. So it is in your interest to return to claim that refill irrespective of whether the cylinder is full or empty, effectively maximizing the amount of gas you get, and utilizing the full inclusions of the deal.

[rick130]

Not too many people weld with oxy any more around here and with the popularity of polly/pvc pipe and compression fittings for copper pipe work brazing isn't needed either.
On farm welding is done by mig/stick welders and the oxy set is used primarily for cutting and heating applications.
You would be hard pressed to find an oxy welding tip in a farm workshop these days.A little tangent, but pressfit (crimped) fittings were supposedly going to take over in my industry as they have done in plumbing, but all new large commercial/industrial refrig and AC installations are still brazed with oxy/acetylene using 15% silver brazing rod (or 45% on dissimilar metals)

I think it's a combination of size/pressure limited with the crimped fitting (three years ago when I last used pressfit fittings the size limit was 28mm)

Anyway, I'd still have my own oxy/acetylene as I can braze and oxy weld thin sections better than I can TIG [emoji23]

[gromit]

Incorrect.
There is an included fill for each 12 month period, and the plan will roll over just happily with no intervention from the user. The refills do not accumulate. So it is in your interest to return to claim that refill irrespective of whether the cylinder is full or empty, effectively maximizing the amount of gas you get, and utilizing the full inclusions of the deal.

To maximise the amount of gas wouldn't it be better to return the bottle then a week or so later pay for another bottle ? That way you get a full bottle and one free refill in the next 12 months.

Colin

[Toxic_Avenger]

Doesn't work that way, trust me.