D4 head gasket - what now ?

[williamr]

Hi all,

I have a 2013 d4 (132000kms) which I love, unfortuntely whilst towing a campervan it overheated as a result of a coolant leak from the coolant outlet in the V of the engine. LR replaced the coolant outlet, pressurised the system and told me it was all good.

By the time I get her home the coolant light was coming on and I have been replacing up to 4litres of coolant a week every since! They believe (and MR Automotove at Recliffe have confirmed) it is a blown head gasket (best case scenario) or a cracked head (worse case scenario).

Qoute by LR to do head gaskets = $12000 quote by MR to replace engine (will not do head gaskets) = $27000!

Apparently the coolant outlet is a known fault (cost for part is about $100) however LR do not replace the part as part os schedule maintenance or tell anyone about it.

Not impressed for a car still worth $30k in good condition! Anyone else heard of this problem - it has been suggested I should go to the ACCC about it.

Has anyone tried a gasket sealant you add to cooling system so i can get her salable?

THanks all I am in a real predicament!

[loanrangie]

So you want to hide a major defect from an unsuspecting buyer ?

[BigJon]

So you want to hide a major defect from an unsuspecting buyer ?

Welcome to the real world.

[Pippin]

Welcome to the real world.
The "Real World" is not supported on this forum!

[BigJon]

The "Real World" is not supported on this forum!

I am often not a fan myself. Unfortunately we have to partake from time to time.

[scarry]

Hi all, however LR do not replace the part as part os schedule maintenance or tell anyone about it.


MR Auto consider it as a part that needs replacing at least every 5 yrs or whenever the coolant is replaced,whichever comes first.

Another reason to stay way from dealers.

I also agree with the above posts in relation to making the vehicle 'saleable'.

[PerthDisco]

It’s a shame people find often these forums in rage after a disaster as even the most cursory google investigation would flag this as a Top 3 issue cheaply and easily avoidable.

[loanrangie]

Head gasket issues dont appear to be common on these motors, i'd be wanting a 2nd opinion and exhaust all possibilities before engine replacement or major repair.

[PerthDisco]

Head gasket issues dont appear to be common on these motors, i'd be wanting a 2nd opinion and exhaust all possibilities before engine replacement or major repair.

They are when you cook them.

[wildcard808]

Sorry to hear about your woes, William! I have a 2011 D4, 3.0L diesel, going on 170,000kms. I booked my timing belt change with my mechanic last week (for the end of September... COVID has been good to him, apparently), and he suggested we change the cooler housing that lives under the plastic covers at the same time, as they are prone to failure past 150,000kms.

He showed me a coolant housing (plastic!!) that had failed, it sheared off at the hose inlet side (I think it houses the thermostat as well?), and said it would cost about $250 for an alloy version, fitted. At the time, I thought he was just trying to sell additional work I didn't need (and let me tell you, the timing belts are NOT cheap, close to $3k), so I told him I'll think about it and tell him when I bring the car in.

Having read your post, I now reckon $250 is a whole lot of peace of mind, especially having seen the part and knowing it's a plastic fitting that's sitting in the bowels of the engine!!!

Good luck with it all...

[scarry]

It is a change from the posts about catastrophic failures of the same engines, that have appeared here in the last few months...[bighmmm][bigsad]
Actually there is another one that has appeared today.

Agree,with proper servicing,which the dealers don't do,this issue wouldn't have happened.
Doesn't help the brands reputation.

[DiscoJeffster]

I don’t believe servicing daily would alleviate the issue. The km that some engines die at are barely past the first few services and barely run in. There have been many that have died in the first 60,000km. It’s a design anomaly that can show at any time.

It simply a lottery with these things.

[justinc]

^ this. It's why i went L322....😟

[DiscoDB]

Again feel the pain for the OP.

One comment I would make - cooking an engine is different to an engine snapping a crank.

Would be good to understand why the low water level alarm, temperature gauge, and ultimately ECU going into restricted performance didn’t help save the engine.

Sounds like more than one failure here with some of the protective devices.

Have been considering adding an engine watchdog system to my D3.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Hi all,

I have a 2013 d4 (132000kms) which I love, unfortuntely whilst towing a campervan it overheated as a result of a coolant leak from the coolant outlet in the V of the engine. LR replaced the coolant outlet, pressurised the system and told me it was all good.

By the time I get her home the coolant light was coming on and I have been replacing up to 4litres of coolant a week every since! They believe (and MR Automotove at Recliffe have confirmed) it is a blown head gasket (best case scenario) or a cracked head (worse case scenario).

Qoute by LR to do head gaskets = $12000 quote by MR to replace engine (will not do head gaskets) = $27000!

Apparently the coolant outlet is a known fault (cost for part is about $100) however LR do not replace the part as part os schedule maintenance or tell anyone about it.

Not impressed for a car still worth $30k in good condition! Anyone else heard of this problem - it has been suggested I should go to the ACCC about it.

Has anyone tried a gasket sealant you add to cooling system so i can get her salable?

THanks all I am in a real predicament!

If LR "fixed" it, then you should have a statutory warranty for that repair of the original issue. LR should be correctly fixing the issue regardless of cost. They have insurance for this so they are not out of pocket at all.

My recent (april 2020) experience was secondary turbo, failed after 192000km. Replaced with a new genuine FoMoCo (Garrett made in Italy) unit. Cost me 4450 to do. 2 weeks later same fault code, back to the mechanics who fitted it, full diagnostic and replaced under warranty including labour no questions asked.


Was a reputable Perth WA independant, but regardless they stood behind their work and will be getting future work from me no doubt.

[williamr]

Thanks for that - great point I will explore that option.

[williamr]

Yep I agree - shouldn't happen when you buy the car new and have the same LR dealer service it for 7 years - you wouldn't think you would have to google and tell them what the problem is...

[williamr]

Again feel the pain for the OP.

One comment I would make - cooking an engine is different to an engine snapping a crank.

Would be good to understand why the low water level alarm, temperature gauge, and ultimately ECU going into restricted performance didn’t help save the engine.

Sounds like more than one failure here with some of the protective devices.

Have been considering adding an engine watchdog system to my D3.

Yes warning came up stating "engine overheating" and then something like "engine shutting down" yet it did not and I got off the freeway and turned her off with in 5 seconds.

[PerthDisco]

Yep I agree - shouldn't happen when you buy the car new and have the same LR dealer service it for 7 years - you wouldn't think you would have to google and tell them what the problem is...

Yes I totally sympathise and agree with the principle but I bet the dealer will say - we’ve never heard that ever happening before - as they are never, in my experience, ‘enthusiasts’ at the dealer only a money making machine for the dealership being faceless behind the glitzy service reception. Until something breaks they will do A and B services forever.

The difference with an Indy or DIY is the interaction and getting choices on what ‘should’ be done.

At 7 years you’re due a timing belts change but I bet the dealer would not mandate changing that part. It is a concern though that it’s gone so severely at 7 years and didn’t give you a slow leak for a long time, or did it?

[INter674]

My experience with the V6 petrol D4 engine shows that the dealer can stuff up the repair. Ours had the defective water pump warranty replaced...a common design issue. And they managed to stuff up the rear outlet seal that goes to a pipe under the supercharger. SC has to come off to fix it.

The owner noticed a slow leak...took it back.. was told it was fine. Just top up ...they all use some water etc etc 🙄

My bet is they knew the problem but decided to fob off the owner as the warranty was about to expire. Took me about 6 hours to fix it....

I would definitely be pressing them hard for a warranty claim.

[Discodicky]

Yes I totally sympathise and agree with the principle but I bet the dealer will say - we’ve never heard that ever happening before - as they are never, in my experience, ‘enthusiasts’ at the dealer only a money making machine for the dealership being faceless behind the glitzy service reception. Until something breaks they will do A and B services forever.

The difference with an Indy or DIY is the interaction and getting choices on what ‘should’ be done.

At 7 years you’re due a timing belts change but I bet the dealer would not mandate changing that part. It is a concern though that it’s gone so severely at 7 years and didn’t give you a slow leak for a long time, or did it?

Absolutely correct.
"Interaction" being the key word here.

As well, the Service Receptionists (the people who greet you and take your "order") have little or no positive discussions as such with the service crew (mechanics), thus in the case of the water manifold which we all know is a common problem and should be replaced at around 120,000 klms, the receptionists have no idea it is a potential problem therefore they are not in a position to make an advice to the customer that it should be changed prior failure. There is also the problem that they are always on their guard so to speak, and possibly reluctant to advise of such preventative m/ance being required, in the event it looks like an admission of a design problem and the customer might scream "warranty".....
A few years ago I've been a party to this exact problem at the local LR dealer and that is why I will no longer patronise them.

[PerthDisco]

Yes, the dealers dilemma is to find a team of young oil changers at the lowest possible price to maximise profits with one or two capable mechanics for any real spanner work. These may often be a 457 Visa in what I have seen.

These guys you will rarely ever see or speak to and they will definitely never share a personal opinion. They are fitted with a suicide jacket activated by the service manager or dealership owner.

The good ones leave ASAP to an Indy or become an Indy.

The trade off is you ‘hope’ they will be kind to you for your loyalty if the brown stuff ever hits the fan.

[justinc]

Absolutely correct.
"Interaction" being the key word here.

As well, the Service Receptionists (the people who greet you and take your "order") have little or no positive discussions as such with the service crew (mechanics), thus in the case of the water manifold which we all know is a common problem and should be replaced at around 120,000 klms, the receptionists have no idea it is a potential problem therefore they are not in a position to make an advice to the customer that it should be changed prior failure. There is also the problem that they are always on their guard so to speak, and possibly reluctant to advise of such preventative m/ance being required, in the event it looks like an admission of a design problem and the customer might scream "warranty".....
A few years ago I've been a party to this exact problem at the local LR dealer and that is why I will no longer patronise them.

Ditto with broken early tdv6 oil pump casings destroying engines after a timing belt change.

[wildcard808]

Got to feel for the OP.... I picked up my 2011 D4, 3.0L diesel from my last service about a month ago, and I arranged for the timing belts to be done in September, as it's getting on for 175,000kms. My (indy) mechanic told me I should replace the (plastic!!) water inlet that lives under the covers at the same time, and showed me a failed part that had sheared off at the hose clamp junction (I think the thermostat lives there too?).

He said these should be replaced when the timing belts are done at around 150,000, as they can fail, and quoted about $250 for parts and labour..... I said I'll think about it and let him know when I bring the car in next month. I thought at the time "he's trying to sell me some extra work", I mean.... surely the manufacturer would have done their research and wouldn't have designed a part, in plastic, that's installed in the bowels of the engine, that's prone to failure... right?????

Having read this post, I'll be getting the part replaced, and see if I can get an alloy part fitted for peace of mind.... and I'll never try and second-guess my mechanic's advice or intentions!

I also agree with the other comments re going hard on the dealer for a warranty claim...

[PerthDisco]

Got to feel for the OP.... I picked up my 2011 D4, 3.0L diesel from my last service about a month ago, and I arranged for the timing belts to be done in September, as it's getting on for 175,000kms. My (indy) mechanic told me I should replace the (plastic!!) water inlet that lives under the covers at the same time, and showed me a failed part that had sheared off at the hose clamp junction (I think the thermostat lives there too?).

He said these should be replaced when the timing belts are done at around 150,000, as they can fail, and quoted about $250 for parts and labour..... I said I'll think about it and let him know when I bring the car in next month. I thought at the time "he's trying to sell me some extra work", I mean.... surely the manufacturer would have done their research and wouldn't have designed a part, in plastic, that's installed in the bowels of the engine, that's prone to failure... right?????

Having read this post, I'll be getting the part replaced, and see if I can get an alloy part fitted for peace of mind.... and I'll never try and second-guess my mechanic's advice or intentions!

I also agree with the other comments re going hard on the dealer for a warranty claim...

Wise man

Do the water pump also as you are already in there and enjoy eliminating that risk also for leaks down the track.

(You’ll be up for a new alternator soon also)

[twr7cx]

quote by MR to replace engine (will not do head gaskets) = $27000!

Why is this?



...and said it would cost about $250 for an alloy version, fitted. At the time, I thought he was just trying to sell additional work I didn't need (and let me tell you, the timing belts are NOT cheap, close to $3k), so I told him I'll think about it and tell him when I bring the car in.

Having read your post, I now reckon $250 is a whole lot of peace of mind, especially having seen the part and knowing it's a plastic fitting that's sitting in the bowels of the engine!!!

100% you want to change out that part - it could cost you big if you don't. If your getting an alloy one for $250.00 then that is either awesome or cause for concern - they're usually closer to $600.00 for the part alone (plus installation costs) so perhaps it's a sign of the quality of the unit being installed? Or perhaps he meant $250.00 supplied and installed for a genuine plastic unit and more for an alloy - either way I'd check it out further...



At 7 years you’re due a timing belts change but I bet the dealer would not mandate changing that part.

Speaking to a bloke at work the other day with a 2010 or 2011 D4 TDV6. He has had it serviced at the local dealer and they've not mentioned the timing belt to him. It's only done 92,000km but I pointed out that it's over in years. He wasn't concerned as he's sure the dealer would let him know...

[DiscoDB]

Speaking to a bloke at work the other day with a 2010 or 2011 D4 TDV6. He has had it serviced at the local dealer and they've not mentioned the timing belt to him. It's only done 92,000km but I pointed out that it's over in years. He wasn't concerned as he's sure the dealer would let him know...

It is a worry when you hear stories like this - especially given most timing belt failures will be due to age not mileage.

[imaz]

It is a worry when you hear stories like this - especially given most timing belt failures will be due to age not mileage.

My dealer had given me a quote to do the belts as the age is up, although the mileage was under. I will do it at the next service.

I’m a sucker for preventative maintenance if it keeps the dealers happy. Just that one day you might need them to play the goodwill cards.

Sundry and washer fluids, you name it.

Played a trick once, I refused the cabin filter change and was charged for it - it was a different car back then so I was able to lock the glove compartment. So I asked the question how they could access it...

[Eric SDV6SE]

D4 timing belts mandatory at 7years regardless of kms. Cheap insurance imho. Failure of this belt will cost you a new engine. Get high pressure fuel pump drive belt changed at the same time. Both should cost about 2k all up including new idler and tensioner pulleys. They should also replace the front crank seal whilst there, if not, tell them to do it. Its a $ 30 part that needs $1000 labour to get to. New genuine plastic coolant outlet is about $60 delivered ex UK, and should also be replaced at that time. Easy enough to do after though. I can do 10 of those for 1 alloy unit (yes it looks trick) but genuine is just as good.

[imaz]

D4 timing belts mandatory at 7years regardless of kms. Cheap insurance imho. Failure of this belt will cost you a new engine. Get high pressure fuel pump drive belt changed at the same time. Both should cost about 2k all up including new idler and tensioner pulleys. They should also replace the front crank seal whilst there, if not, tell them to do it. Its a $ 30 part that needs $1000 labour to get to. New genuine plastic coolant outlet is about $60 delivered ex UK, and should also be replaced at that time. Easy enough to do after though. I can do 10 of those for 1 alloy unit (yes it looks trick) but genuine is just as good.

I was quoted $1400 from southern land rovers 2 months ago for both front and rear timing belts.

Thanks for the tip.

[Eric SDV6SE]

I was quoted $1400 from southern land rovers 2 months ago for both front and rear timing belts.

Thanks for the tip.

That is a good price, well worth it. Only the front is a timing belt, the rear is just the hpfp drive belt. Don't forget to ask about the front crank seal.

[PerthDisco]

That is a good price, well worth it. Only the front is a timing belt, the rear is just the hpfp drive belt. Don't forget to ask about the front crank seal.

And new water pump, cheap peace of mind with negligible impact on labour hours.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200909/1734bedef7273417ef788957f12c345e.jpg

[imaz]

That is a good price, well worth it. Only the front is a timing belt, the rear is just the hpfp drive belt. Don't forget to ask about the front crank seal.

Yep, sure is a reasonable price. I kept the quote handy if anyone needs it. It was printed on my service receipt sheet. That minor service was only $390 as well.

[twr7cx]

They should also replace the front crank seal whilst there, if not, tell them to do it. Its a $ 30 part that needs $1000 labour to get to.

I haven't seen any reports on the crank seal failing/leaking previously? Personally, I didn't replace this when I did our last belts, despite having it on hand, as sometimes interfering with something working can lead to other issues (sometimes oil seals wear grooves into the surface that they seal against etc.) and I didn't think the efforts to access it were that significant if I ever had to do it again. I suspect the seal should hold up until the second belt change at which point it'd likely be a good idea to replace regardless.
But if your paying someone to do it, and therefore have the ability to return it to them to resolve I'd certainly consider it more.

[Eric SDV6SE]

My belts were done right on time at Southern Landrover, i was told that as part of their s.o.p they check the front crank seal and if it shows the slightest weep they will replace as theyre in there anyway. I got it replaced regardless. You get no warning if it goes and it will empty the sump quick smart, then game over.