D4 3.0 SDV6 catastrophic failure

[goldey]

Yep, happened last weekend on the way back from the beach. Cruising along and then all of a sudden, knock knock knock engine stops. Coast to a stop and hop out and look under the hood. I get my son to start it and there's a wild old bang bang bang in the engine. Shut it off straight away and wait for NRMA to attend though I know in my heart what has happened. No warning signs, no indications on the dash, oil level is fine and no coolant loss or overheating.

NRMS are none the wiser and speculate that you've got some big end noise there pal, do you think? Towed to the nearest stelaership where a couple of days later (and a few hundred dollars poorer) we get the definite verdict that the crank and/or crank bearings have rotated and on the last attempt to start the motor as part of the diagnosis work the engine locks up permanently, won't even move with a breaker bar on the crank....[bawl]

We've had the D4 since November last year and it's been flawless till last weekend. It has just clocked up 160,000kms. The previous owner had the front and rear belts done before we bought it (at 152k kms).

Now the options that I might need some help with gents:


Brand new motor from LR $40k (yeah right [wink11][bigsmile][thumbsupbig][bigrolf][bigrolf]);
Replacement reco motor using all of our existing ancillaries for less than $20k (concern about our turnbos and injectors??); or
Low mileage second hand unit (if I can find one) for maybe about $15k to $20k.



The other option is we cut our losses and scrap it with the local wreckers (not preferred). At this stage I'm inclined toward a good second hand unit.

What say ye wise people?

[rar110]

Terrible. IMHO JLR should pay at least 1/2 the cost as 160,000 km is less than 1/2 the life an owner could reasonably expect from a properly serviced motor.

That motor is not of merchantable quality.

But I know it won’t happen.

[PerthDisco]

I say I reckon the 12 months oil service interval is too long as the 3.0s are popping worse than 2.7s. What was LRs reason to extend?

[kelvo]

What say ye wise people?
Unfortunately it’s a known issue with the 3.0ltr V6 Diesel engines, some info here Jaguar Land Rover recall TDV6 engined vehicles (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/265811-jaguar-land-rover-recall-tdv6-engined-vehicles.html)

If yours has a full LR dealer service history I would be putting everything in writing to the dealer AND to LR Customer service.

[NavyDiver]

Shocker. Sympathy + Sir

With more than twice those KM traveled on my D3(s) I'd be scared to take a D4. The sealed for life gear box is a well known issue for our Discos we have due to Landrover trying to meet emission standards I assume. We can at least fix the gear box issue ourselves before it bites us. Just put a new radiator in mine at about 300,000km. I do not mind parts. Engine failure after by the book servicing seem very unreasonable.

[101RRS]

Shocker. Sympathy + Sir

The sealed for life gear box is a well known issue for our Discos we have due to Landrover trying to meet emission standards I assume.

No one, even LR says the gearbox is sealed for life - the LR service schedule has it at 250,000km or 10 years and much earlier if used in arduous conditions which includes city use. Yes - the interval is far too long but sealed for life is a myth.

[Discodicky]

Yep, happened last weekend on the way back from the beach. Cruising along and then all of a sudden, knock knock knock engine stops. Coast to a stop and hop out and look under the hood. I get my son to start it and there's a wild old bang bang bang in the engine. Shut it off straight away and wait for NRMA to attend though I know in my heart what has happened. No warning signs, no indications on the dash, oil level is fine and no coolant loss or overheating.

NRMS are none the wiser and speculate that you've got some big end noise there pal, do you think? Towed to the nearest stelaership where a couple of days later (and a few hundred dollars poorer) we get the definite verdict that the crank and/or crank bearings have rotated and on the last attempt to start the motor as part of the diagnosis work the engine locks up permanently, won't even move with a breaker bar on the crank....[bawl]

We've had the D4 since November last year and it's been flawless till last weekend. It has just clocked up 160,000kms. The previous owner had the front and rear belts done before we bought it (at 152k kms).

Now the options that I might need some help with gents:


Brand new motor from LR $40k (yeah right [wink11][bigsmile][thumbsupbig][bigrolf][bigrolf]);
Replacement reco motor using all of our existing ancillaries for less than $20k (concern about our turnbos and injectors??); or
Low mileage second hand unit (if I can find one) for maybe about $15k to $20k.


The other option is we cut our losses and scrap it with the local wreckers (not preferred). At this stage I'm inclined toward a good second hand unit.

What say ye wise people?

Very sorry to read this.
It makes me feel a bit sick actually, with mine at 138,000 klms.
The other day I stumbled (on E-bay) an advert selling a reco exchange TDV6 3.0 litre from Automotive Skills P/L at Kirrawee Aus, for $9,900
Their advert seems pretty impressive and well worth a further look.
Hope this helps.
Blumers Lawyers might be worth a try as well, as they advertise that they specialise in this sort of thing.
Worth a letter to LRA I think...... as the engine has done only half its expected life.

[DiscoDB]

Very sorry to read this.
It makes me feel a bit sick actually, with mine at 138,000 klms.
The other day I stumbled (on E-bay) an advert selling a reco exchange TDV6 3.0 litre from Automotive Skills P/L at Kirrawee Aus, for $9,900
Their advert seems pretty impressive and well worth a further look.
Hope this helps.
Blumers Lawyers might be worth a try as well, as they advertise that they specialise in this sort of thing.
Worth a letter to LRA I think...... as the engine has done only half its expected life.

Is on gumtree. I saved it in my watchlist to see what else they put up for sale.

Rover Sport Discovery 4 TDV6 SDV6 3.0 306DT Reconditioned Engine Sale | Engine, Engine Parts & Transmission | Gumtree Australia Sutherland Area - Kirrawee | 1248323593 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/kirrawee/engine-engine-parts-transmission/rover-sport-discovery-4-tdv6-sdv6-3-0-306dt-reconditioned-engine-sale/1248323593?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=ios_VIP&utm_medium=social&utm_source=com.apple.uikit.activity.copytopasteboa rd)

[DiscoDB]

No one, even LR says the gearbox is sealed for life - the LR service schedule has it at 250,000km or 10 years and much earlier if used in arduous conditions which includes city use. Yes - the interval is far too long but sealed for life is a myth.

No coincidence that 250K or 10 years would be about the life you can expect if you never service the auto.

....hopefully no disrespect to the OP for going off topic. We all feel your pain.

[shanegtr]

Very sorry to read this.
It makes me feel a bit sick actually, with mine at 138,000 klms.

From what I've read the failed engines dont seem to be age related failures, they are totally random.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Shame, sorry to hear that.

I would not have an issue reusing ancillaries of your old engine (turboes, injectors, intercooler, hoses etc.)

Crank is buggered, but not all pistons and conrods would be scrapped.

These engines can be rebuilt, no question.

Im concerned that part of the LR check is to restart the engine, when knowing what happened.

160k kms is low, id be asking LR to come to the party. 40k for a new long motor is crazy.

[NavyDiver]

No one, even LR says the gearbox is sealed for life - the LR service schedule has it at 250,000km or 10 years and much earlier if used in arduous conditions which includes city use. Yes - the interval is far too long but sealed for life is a myth.

Do not argue with anything you said. LR just failed to put a drain plug and cap to refill of course [biggrin] Never see or heard of a LR part to fix this as well. I may be wrong of course[bigwhistle]

[Eric SDV6SE]

Do not argue with anything you said. LR just failed to put a drain plug and cap to refill of course [biggrin] Never see or heard of a LR part to fix this as well. I may be wrong of course[bigwhistle]

Sealed for life is utter BS. Transmission does have a fill plug.
Replace plastic pan with steel asap (comes with a drain plug).

Fit new filter and full flush with new fluid every 40-50k kms. Rebuild valve body at 150-200k kms and you will have a bullet proof transmission for a long time.

[NavyDiver]

Sealed for life is utter BS. Transmission does have a fill plug.
Replace plastic pan with steel asap (comes with a drain plug).

Fit new filter and full flush with new fluid every 40-50k kms. Rebuild valve body at 150-200k kms and you will have a bullet proof transmission for a long time.

Both of mine have or had a steel pan fitted. The first one a bit late and it cost me a gear box. Excuse me if I was unclear. LR should have put that not the sealed bit with no plug [biggrin] Current D3 gear box is great as it can have gear oil drained and replaced as needed as I paid for and fitted the part to allow me to do it. Stock LR and that cannot happen as far as I know. Fully agree "Sealed for life" is utter BS

[PerthDisco]

Part of the rationale I’m sure is fact every day driver cars in hard winter UK / Europe are lucky to exist after 10 years when you see the rust ball they turn into.

We are very lucky here for nuts to still undo after 5 years let alone 10.

[101RRS]

Navy Diver I think you are a bit confused - the OEM plastic gearbox sump has a drain plug and the gearbox has a filler plug so with the standard setup there is not reason oil cannot be changed - is an issue with the filter.

For the OP - sorry for the distraction.

I would go to the Disco3Uk and the RRSUK sites and search rebuilding these engines - the consensus is the repro parts are not of good quality and reliability is in question - now I dont personally know so do your own research - countering that some repro engines have been fitted here and they seem to be working fine.

So - research before committing.

Garry

[Arapiles]

Yep, happened last weekend on the way back from the beach. Cruising along and then all of a sudden, knock knock knock engine stops. Coast to a stop and hop out and look under the hood. I get my son to start it and there's a wild old bang bang bang in the engine. Shut it off straight away and wait for NRMA to attend though I know in my heart what has happened. No warning signs, no indications on the dash, oil level is fine and no coolant loss or overheating.

What say ye wise people?

What year is it?

[Arapiles]

From what I've read the failed engines dont seem to be age related failures, they are totally random.


I thought that it was the 2.7 litre that had the random engine failure issues and that the 3.0 litre was OK?

[PerthDisco]

I thought that it was the 2.7 litre that had the random engine failure issues and that the 3.0 litre was OK?

Nope, whatever the learnings from the 2.7 failures they seemed to resolve later were un-applied to the 3.0 just as the 2.7 was dropped.

[scarry]

Nope, whatever the learnings from the 2.7 failures they seemed to resolve later were un-applied to the 3.0 just as the 2.7 was dropped.

The D4 2.7 was uprated from D3,no failures have ben reported,same engine as in Ford Territory.

What the changes were,no one seems to know.

D3 2.7 has continual failures,as does 3.0l in D4,and remarkably,D5 as well.

[INter674]

Son told me there's kits out of the UK to fit the BMW M57 3L diesel to eg Patrols...appears that the 3L BMW diesel is quite a common transplant over there and becoming popular here too.

He looked at doing one for a GU Patrol and the total cost of the kit plus engine was around 15k...which inc loom..ecu..adapter to manual box etc.. etc

It's on Facebook..which I don't do..Fastmotion....not sure about D3/4 but surely given the failure rates....somebody is doing transplants 😐

[LGM]

Yep, happened last weekend on the way back from the beach. Cruising along and then all of a sudden, knock knock knock engine stops. Coast to a stop and hop out and look under the hood. I get my son to start it and there's a wild old bang bang bang in the engine. Shut it off straight away and wait for NRMA to attend though I know in my heart what has happened. No warning signs, no indications on the dash, oil level is fine and no coolant loss or overheating.

NRMS are none the wiser and speculate that you've got some big end noise there pal, do you think? Towed to the nearest stelaership where a couple of days later (and a few hundred dollars poorer) we get the definite verdict that the crank and/or crank bearings have rotated and on the last attempt to start the motor as part of the diagnosis work the engine locks up permanently, won't even move with a breaker bar on the crank....[bawl]

We've had the D4 since November last year and it's been flawless till last weekend. It has just clocked up 160,000kms. The previous owner had the front and rear belts done before we bought it (at 152k kms).

Now the options that I might need some help with gents:


Brand new motor from LR $40k (yeah right [wink11][bigsmile][thumbsupbig][bigrolf][bigrolf]);
Replacement reco motor using all of our existing ancillaries for less than $20k (concern about our turnbos and injectors??); or
Low mileage second hand unit (if I can find one) for maybe about $15k to $20k.


The other option is we cut our losses and scrap it with the local wreckers (not preferred). At this stage I'm inclined toward a good second hand unit.

What say ye wise people?

I am aware of a 2011 D4 here in WA that had a similar failure. I know the owner. The owner did ask the question of Land Rover via the selling dealer. In my discussions with him he advised that LR did come to the party with approximately 50% of the total cost. Mind you this still ended up costing around the $22k mark for a brand new LR 3.0L engine fitted. He also advised that he had serviced the vehicle to the schedule (in fact better than was suggested by the schedule) albeit via an independent LR specialist and this service history documentation showing that the correct oil was used throughout the life of the vehicle proved (in his opinion) to be all important. These facts coupled with representations from the selling dealer no doubt assisted. The owner also took a 'matter of fact' approach and was careful not to be 'aggressive' in his dealings. All considered if it was my vehicle (my 3.0L 2011 D4 is approaching the 300,000km mark) and I had the full service history to back me up I would ask the question of LR and be a bit persistent. If that fails then I would certainly look at an exchange engine. There are a few places in the UK that re manufacture these engines and I had been considering that as an option should I need one. I don't know much about what is being offered here in Aus but would give them a look in and if I felt comfortable with their re manufacture process it could be a good option. Others that are more mechanical than I could comment on the turbo's etc.

[DazzaTD5]

*160,000km seems to be the magic death number for either the early 2.7lt or the 3.0lt failures.
*a Discovery 4 3.0lt failure unfortunately is an expensive repair for owners.

*And people bag me (mostly Land Rover fan boys) because in good conscience I cant recommend Land Rovers as a vehicle to purchase.
*What they dont see or have to deal with is the human side of major engine failures with Land Rover models. Owners that suddenly have no vehicle for family use and have to deal with the huge expense of repairs that they simple cant afford and end up borrowing from a friend or relative or maxing out some line of credit.

*If I didnt have to deal with the personal hardship this causes owners none of this would bother me. [bigsad]
*This is something a large dealership doesnt have to deal with, throw out a figure and see if the customers rolls with it or not, I've seen quotes of $50K from dealerships.

[shanegtr]

*160,000km seems to be the magic death number for either the early 2.7lt or the 3.0lt failures.

My 05 D3 is doing ok then - 344,000km on the original engine so far:bat:

[scarry]

*And people bag me (mostly Land Rover fan boys) because in good conscience I cant recommend Land Rovers as a vehicle to purchase.


Mine will be for sale in the next month or so,and i have a good mate who wants it.
It has taken quite a few months to talk him out of it.

If i get less for it,have to advertise it,i don't care,at least we will still be mates.

Good chance the engine will be fine,being a 2.7,D4,but its all the other expensive repairs,he won't be happy about.

[DiscoDB]

I don't know much about what is being offered here in Aus but would give them a look in and if I felt comfortable with their re manufacture process it could be a good option. Others that are more mechanical than I could comment on the turbo's etc.

There is a mob offering rebuilt 3L TDV6/SDV6 in NSW. See post #7 and 8 for details.

It is on an exchange basis so I would imagine any damaged parts (such as damaged crank or rods) would be extra’s. And of course have to add removal/fitting.

Good to have options though.

[101RRS]

DiscoMickey on the UK RRS and Disco3 sites is finding a common issue with failed 3.0 engines - in his business it is low engine oil where the dash system is not showing a low reading, often combined with owner neglect to proactively check oil levels.

The is a post there now, not by him where the vehicle suffered an engine failure and it only had 750ml of engine oil in the engine.

[PerthDisco]

DiscoMickey on the UK RRS and Disco3 sites is finding a common issue with failed 3.0 engines - in his business it is low engine oil where the dash system is not showing a low reading, often combined with owner neglect to proactively check oil levels.

The is a post there now, not by him where the vehicle suffered an engine failure and it only had 750ml of engine oil in the engine.

My experience on the 2.7D is that the oil burn between 6 month changes at 230k kms is negligible. I’ve never topped off.

[goldey]

DiscoMickey on the UK RRS and Disco3 sites is finding a common issue with failed 3.0 engines - in his business it is low engine oil where the dash system is not showing a low reading, often combined with owner neglect to proactively check oil levels.

The is a post there now, not by him where the vehicle suffered an engine failure and it only had 750ml of engine oil in the engine.

One of the first things that the LR dealer checked was the oil level. It was due to be changed (was planning on doing it the coming weekend so I could baseline 10,000km oil changes at the 160k km mark), but the oil level reading showed midway between half and full.

[DiscoJeffster]

One of the first things that the LR dealer checked was the oil level. It was due to be changed (was planning on doing it the coming weekend so I could baseline 10,000km oil changes at the 160k km mark), but the oil level reading showed midway between half and full.

Which means we can estimate it has between 5.4-5.9L.

[scarry]

in his business it is low engine oil where the dash system is not showing a low reading,.

Another one of many reasons not to have a dash read out for engine oil level.

Technology for technologies sake,with no real benefit.

I have noticed the new LR Ingenium engines have dipsticks.

[DiscoJeffster]

Another one of many reasons not to have a dash read out for engine oil level.

Technology for technologies sake,with no real benefit.

I have noticed the new LR Ingenium engines have dipsticks.

And yet how often does anyone (other than enthusiasts) check their oil on a dipstick? Never. At least an electronic prompt can warn the norm, whereas a dipstick can’t. Having both would be best.

[101RRS]

And yet how often does anyone (other than enthusiasts) check their oil on a dipstick? Never.

What is basis of that assertion?

In my experience most people check their dipstick at least once per service cycle.

Though at my age it is getting a bit hard to find my dipstick [bigsad]

[DiscoJeffster]

What is basis of that assertion?

In my experience most people check their dipstick at least once per service cycle.

Though at my age it is getting a bit hard to find my dipstick [bigsad]

The same basis of every other statement on here. Mine is as evidence based as statements such as that the electronic oil system offers no value, is unreliable etc. None of that is founded in fact - etc. The electronics definitely are better than a dipstick - you will he told immediately that there’s an issue, before the oil pressure warning light - which signals the end. A dipstick can’t do that. Having both IMO is the best. Electronics for active protection and a dipstick for manual verification.

If you’re a forum user you’re likely to care about your car and maintain it. We’re in the minority.

Most non-car people I know don’t even know how to open the bonnet! [emoji1787]

[101RRS]

Even my 20 yo ditzy niece checks the dipstick in her car on a regular basis - my housemate does it - he leaves the oil container on my front porch - so I think your reality does not represent reality.

[justinc]

Even my 20 yo ditzy niece checks the dipstick in her car on a regular basis - my housemate does it - he leaves the oil container on my front porch - so I think your reality does not represent reality.

There is nothing really wrong with the electronic display. I just check the dash first thing in the morning. Like you would a normal dipstick...😊

[scarry]

And yet how often does anyone (other than enthusiasts) check their oil on a dipstick? Never. At least an electronic prompt can warn the norm, whereas a dipstick can’t. Having both would be best.

That is the issue,it can and will fail.And often difficult and expensive to repair.
A dipstick will never fail.

If you don't check the dipstick(and other things under the bonnet) regularly,then you don't deserve to have the vehicle.

Sure having both would be best,but manufacturers would think differently.

I wonder why the latest Ingenium engines have gone back to a dipstick,if the electronic one is such a great idea?

[DiscoJeffster]

Are you sure there’s no electronic level measurement (even simply low level alert like VW do) plus a dipstick?
I haven’t looked myself but will take a gander. It surprises me there wouldn’t be some form of electronic warning for low level. The most basic vehicles have that plus a dipstick.

[scarry]

Are you sure there’s no electronic level measurement (even simply low level alert like VW do) plus a dipstick?
I haven’t looked myself but will take a gander. It surprises me there wouldn’t be some form of electronic warning for low level. The most basic vehicles have that plus a dipstick.

You are talking about two different devices.

One is the dash level read out for sump oil level,which replaces the dipstick.

The other is a warning light for low sump level,which many vehicles have,as well.

Which LR models have both,i don't know,that is warning light,and oil level dash read out or dipstick.

[DiscoJeffster]

You are talking about two different devices.

One is the dash level read out for sump oil level,which replaces the dipstick.

The other is a warning light for low sump level,which many vehicles have,as well.

Which LR models have both,i don't know,that is warning light,and oil level dash read out or dipstick.

Well one can be both to be fair

[ozscott]

And yet how often does anyone (other than enthusiasts) check their oil on a dipstick? Never. At least an electronic prompt can warn the norm, whereas a dipstick can’t. Having both would be best.Every week...and I needn't bother as its a Triton diesel and never goes up or down doesnt matter how hard it gets worked...but I still check and check the other basics also.

Cheers

[Harsop1]

Every week...and I needn't bother as its a Triton diesel and never goes up or down doesnt matter how hard it gets worked...but I still check and check the other basics also.

Cheers
Best I got when my SDV^ died at 70,000klm's was from Home - Automotive Skills (https://automotiveskills.net.au/) $16,000 for new reco engine with all upgrades done.

NEVER go past 10,000 klm between oil changes on a TDV6 or SDV6, I learnt the hard way.

[ozscott]

Best I got when my SDV^ died at 70,000klm's was from Home - Automotive Skills (https://automotiveskills.net.au/) $16,000 for new reco engine with all upgrades done.

NEVER go past 10,000 klm between oil changes on a TDV6 or SDV6, I learnt the hard way.Mine is done at 7,500klm not the factory 15,000klm. Recently spoke to the head mech at my Mitsubishi dealership and he said he told the Mitsu techs that 15,000 was crazy and they noted it was all about costs of ownership. All manufacturers should be honest about this but they are not. No modern TD should go 15,000 or more between services. It's just silly.

Cheers

[Eetab]

Hey Goldey, sorry to read about your engine. I have a MY15 Disco 4 TDV6 and my engine did exactly the same thing at 130,000k's. After much arguing with JLR I decided to pay for it myself and just get back on the road. (Help from JLR never looked that promising for me). A new engine from JLR would give me potentially the same problem, I checked out second hand but wasn't happy with an engine with 110,000k's for 15k plus 5k fitting, plus timing belts (which I would have done). I think I would have been looking at around 22-23K or even more! I decided on a reco engine from the UK. A standard engine would have been 25k drive in drive out from Rova Range here in Victoria. I elected to have a billet crank, +2k plus other work I wanted done in total was a shade over 30k.
My particular situation meant that I had to do the repairs and now keep the car till the end! I can't suggest what you should do, but I am extremely happy I went down the reco engine route but only because the engine I ultimately got was available. If you are considering the reco engine I got, it is from NWS Engines in the UK. They do warranty work for JLR UK (apparently) and the only importer that I know of is Rova Range in Bentleigh Victoria.
Hope this helps.

[goldey]

Best I got when my SDV^ died at 70,000klm's was from Home - Automotive Skills (https://automotiveskills.net.au/) $16,000 for new reco engine with all upgrades done.

NEVER go past 10,000 klm between oil changes on a TDV6 or SDV6, I learnt the hard way.

Harsop1

How long ago did you get your 'reco' engine from those guys? This is where our Disco came from 10 mths ago.

Goldey

[loanrangie]

Harsop1

How long ago did you get your 'reco' engine from those guys? This is where our Disco came from 10 mths ago.

Goldey

They are currently advertising a rebuilt motor for $9990 change over.

[scarry]

Mine is done at 7,500klm not the factory 15,000klm. Recently spoke to the head mech at my Mitsubishi dealership and he said he told the Mitsu techs that 15,000 was crazy and they noted it was all about costs of ownership. All manufacturers should be honest about this but they are not. No modern TD should go 15,000 or more between services. It's just silly.

Cheers

And some wonder why all Toyota diesels have to be serviced every 10,000km.

LR was one of the early manufacturers with long drainage intervals,starting with thevTD5 in the D2.
That engine did also have a centrifugal oil filter which probably helped,but they haven’t used them since in their engines.

[ozscott]

And some wonder why all Toyota diesels have to be serviced every 10,000km.

LR was one of the early manufacturers with long drainage intervals,starting with thevTD5 in the D2.
That engine did also have a centrifugal oil filter which probably helped,but they haven’t used them since in their engines.For sure. 10,000 is OK...still a comprise for those doing peak hour, towing or hot conditions etc (Toyota probably halve it in their handbooks for harsh conditions such as those). I like 7,500 as a good compromise. Mitusbishi have a very well sorted DPF and I run a Mann Hunmel Provent 200 but still do the 7500k oil and filter. If you don't hold a Triton past the 7 year/150,000k it won't matter I suppose but I hold onto my vehicles for a lot longer.

Cheers

[imaz]

For sure. 10,000 is OK...still a comprise for those doing peak hour, towing or hot conditions etc (Toyota probably halve it in their handbooks for harsh conditions such as those). I like 7,500 as a good compromise. Mitusbishi have a very well sorted DPF and I run a Mann Hunmel Provent 200 but still do the 7500k oil and filter. If you don't hold a Triton past the 7 year/150,000k it won't matter I suppose but I hold onto my vehicles for a lot longer.

Cheers

I think 7,000 - 10000km intervals is about rite(just like a normal car would). Only LR with the idiot mindset have a 15,000km interval. What is the cost of oil to stretch it that far anyway. When I had mine last service at the dealer, they said we'll see you in the next 12mo, hell no - more like 6 months.

[ozscott]

Mitsubishi is 15,000 in theory (unless harsh conditions) and i thought LR were up to 20,000 for some models of diesel?

Cheers

[DiscoJeffster]

Mitsubishi is 15,000 in theory (unless harsh conditions) and i thought LR were up to 20,000 for some models of diesel?

Cheers

12 months or 24,000km on the 3L

[kelvo]

12 months or 24,000km on the 3L
12 months or 26,000Km on the MY14 onwards 3.0ltr. I do engine oil and filter on mine every 13,000Km.

A Fusu Canter is 12 months or 30,000Km with their 3.0ltr diesel.

[DiscoJeffster]

12 months or 26,000Km on the MY14 onwards 3.0ltr. I do engine oil and filter on mine every 13,000Km.

A Fusu Canter is 12 months or 30,000Km with their 3.0ltr diesel.

Sorry you’re right, I stand corrected.

Mine was serviced by the previous owner at annual intervals and typically between 18,000-33,000km. I didn’t know any better at the time, and it’s still going at over 280,000km, but I did have new bearings installed 10,000km ago. His driving was long country distances which would have been less arduous on it.

[ozscott]

12 months or 26,000Km on the MY14 onwards 3.0ltr. I do engine oil and filter on mine every 13,000Km.

A Fusu Canter is 12 months or 30,000Km with their 3.0ltr diesel.Jeez.

[scarry]

Jeez.

A mates Iveco is around 30 000K as well.

Renault tried to talk us into their Diesel vans once,the big selling point was 25 000K's between services.
Australia Post have just started using them they said.

Anyway,we stayed with the brand we had,no need to change if no issues,and they do what we want.

[josh.huber]

You can't compare a commercial engine from the likes of Mitsubishi to ours. We produce 600nm in a D4. A 3l Fuso puts out 370nm and in my experience holds at least 12l of engine oil. Half the power double the oil. And a bypass oil filter.

[DiscoDB]

Harsop1

How long ago did you get your 'reco' engine from those guys? This is where our Disco came from 10 mths ago.

Goldey

...meanwhile back to the OP. [emoji3]

So how is that for a coincidence. The mob that sells reconditioned TDV6’s, is also a wrecker, and happens to be who you bought your D4 from - which now has a failed motor. Ouch!

Is it the original engine?

[ATH]

Chatting to an independent mechanic today and he reckons there doesn't seem to be any real connection between those that fail after having services at the LR intervals, or those like mine which gets 10K services. Plus even vehicles with the new ignieum (?) engines are susceptible to catastrophic failures as well.
My younger bro had a RRS Autobiography from new and thrashed that everywhere for around 4 years from memory. Nothing went wrong and he only had dealer servicing after going to a much praised (on this forum) indie in Sydney whose attitude left a lot to be desired apparently.
I have voiced my concerns to the Cook about the possible failures and she may just let me buy one more vehicle... :)
AlanH.

PS. Message to the boss and his "scruffy mechanics" in the front office of the indie.... be careful who you treat like an idiot. Could lose a lot of business with your responses and attitudes.

[gavinwibrow]

Chatting to an independent mechanic today and he reckons there doesn't seem to be any real connection between those that fail after having services at the LR intervals, or those like mine which gets 10K services. Plus even vehicles with the new ignieum (?) engines are susceptible to catastrophic failures as well.



Then again a certain Indie well north of Perth very recently intimated that their customers and acquaintances who included an intermediate service were almost to a person, not affected by the dreaded "catastrophes" - unlike some other horror maintenance stories!

[Discodicky]

Then again a certain Indie well north of Perth very recently intimated that their customers and acquaintances who included an intermediate service were almost to a person, not affected by the dreaded "catastrophes" - unlike some other horror maintenance stories!

T'other day I read on a English Disco facebook site that one contributor reckoned it depended on which production line the engine was assembled.
One line having a bad reputation for the failures whilst the other had no failures.
I asked him for more information but so far no response.
Sounds a bit over the top but stranger things have happened.....

[PerthDisco]

T'other day I read on a English Disco facebook site that one contributor reckoned it depended on which production line the engine was assembled.
One line having a bad reputation for the failures whilst the other had no failures.
I asked him for more information but so far no response.
Sounds a bit over the top but stranger things have happened.....

Windsor or Cleveland block scenario

[TerryO]

Windsor or Cleveland block scenario

Sorry but how does two completely different Ford V8 engines sharing a common displacement have any similarity to the same engine supposedly being assembled in two different plants?

[PerthDisco]

Sorry but how does two completely different Ford V8 engines sharing a common displacement have any similarity to the same engine supposedly being assembled in two different plants?

Without knowing specifics I remember in my youth the endless discussion on which was the better engine.

[Discodicky]

Without knowing specifics I remember in my youth the endless discussion on which was the better engine.

Must check, but I thought the Windsor was 302 cu and the Cleveland 351 cu.
Not sure if they made a 351 Windsor.
My '68 'stang which I sold a year or so ago had the 302 Windsor and it was a lovely sweet engine.

[DiscoDB]

Must check, but I thought the Windsor was 302 cu and the Cleveland 351 cu.
Not sure if they made a 351 Windsor.
My '68 'stang which I sold a year or so ago had the 302 Windsor and it was a lovely sweet engine.

Both the Windsor and Cleveland came in 302 and 351 variations.

[PerthDisco]

I always thought Windsor and Cleveland only made the blocks for Ford in different factories not the complete engine hence the subtle nuance. Learn something new every day.

Topical since the 2.7 and 3.0 are Ford family engines also.

[DiscoDB]

As we are going off topic....

What’s the Difference Between a Ford 351 Windsor, Cleveland, or Modified Engine? - OnAllCylinders (https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/01/19/whats-difference-ford-351-windsor-cleveland-modified-engine/)

[ozscott]

Without knowing specifics I remember in my youth the endless discussion on which was the better engine.Yep mate me too...but I don't recall either letting go of the crank regularly. Cheers

[goldey]

...meanwhile back to the OP. [emoji3]

So how is that for a coincidence. The mob that sells reconditioned TDV6’s, is also a wrecker, and happens to be who you bought your D4 from - which now has a failed motor. Ouch!

Is it the original engine?

Hey Dave

Whilst I like Ford V8's too (kind of a funny segway), the engine that failed hasn't been 'plucked' yet, so I'm not 100% sure on the engine number. Our pending engine is being removed from the donor car as we speak and we should be back on the road over the next couple of weeks, hopefully[thumbsupbig]. One mandatory 'teardown' item though for our mechanic is to check the engine number stamping on the lower block behind the engine mount/starter area.

Cheers

Goldey

[TerryO]

Both the Windsor and Cleveland came in 302 and 351 variations.


Agreed they both were available in 302 and 351 cubic inch capacity, other trivia, the original Windsor V8 in the early sixties was 221ci, then updated to 260ci in the mid sixties and lastly prior to the release of the 302 in 1968 was the venerable 289 that graced many early Mustangs and other Ford compact cars in both the US and Canada, plus here in Australia with the 1967 XR Falcon, Fairmont and GT models.

Anyway my apologies for going off track, back to the OP’s original topic.

[rick130]

Both the Windsor and Cleveland came in 302 and 351 variations.
Agreed they both were available in 302 and 351 cubic inch capacity, other trivia, the original Windsor V8 in the early sixties was 221ci, then updated to 260ci in the mid sixties and lastly prior to the release of the 302 in 1968 was the venerable 289 that graced many early Mustangs and other Ford compact cars in both the US and Canada, plus here in Australia with the 1967 XR Falcon, Fairmont and GT models.

Anyway my apologies for going off track, back to the OP’s original topic.Useless trivia time.

The 302C was an Australian only engine capacity, it wasn't available in North America.

[Celtoid]

T'other day I read on a English Disco facebook site that one contributor reckoned it depended on which production line the engine was assembled.
One line having a bad reputation for the failures whilst the other had no failures.
I asked him for more information but so far no response.
Sounds a bit over the top but stranger things have happened.....

I'd read it was the actual crank itself that is the issue. Multiple companies were comissioned to make them and one screwed up the tempering, or something of such nature. Problem was, the items were mixed in distribution so there was no way to trace which engines got a crank from which factory.

Could be BS....

[loanrangie]

I'd read it was the actual crank itself that is the issue. Multiple companies were comissioned to make them and one screwed up the tempering, or something of such nature. Problem was, the items were mixed in distribution so there was no way to trace which engines got a crank from which factory.

Could be BS....

As far as i'm aware all TDV6 motors came out of the Ford Dagenham engine plant but i would expect like most manufacturers that the cranks were supplied by a 3rd party, much like how a lot of the Ford Barra motor components were cast in China.
Reading on another forum where an LC200 owner had his motor dusted and the replacement cost is 26k and thats with re-using most of his bolt ons.

[INter674]

As far as i'm aware all TDV6 motors came out of the Ford Dagenham engine plant but i would expect like most manufacturers that the cranks were supplied by a 3rd party, much like how a lot of the Ford Barra motor components were cast in China.
Reading on another forum where an LC200 owner had his motor dusted and the replacement cost is 26k and thats with re-using most of his bolt ons.

Cranks made in France so it is said...new ones not and forged. Btw LC200 engines are showing more issues with several reporting milky oil😐 26k is cheap as my mate was told @45k by Toyota.

Beeping cars😞

[scarry]

Cranks made in France so it is said...new ones not and forged. Btw LC200 engines are showing more issues with several reporting milky oil😐 26k is cheap as my mate was told @45k by Toyota.

Beeping cars😞

A mechanic mate had one in the other day,1VD.
Crate long motor, genuine,15K.
So with labour,other bits and pieces,$25K is probably about right.
Similar price to a 3.0L D4.

The old one was in a heavy earth moving mechanics ute,just clocked over 500,000K.
Engine never touched,but clutches have been an issue.
Runs fully loaded almost on GVM all day.

[INter674]

A mechanic mate had one in the other day,1VD.
Crate long motor, genuine,15K.
So with labour,other bits and pieces,$25K is probably about right.
Similar price to a 3.0L D4.

The old one was in a heavy earth moving mechanics ute,just clocked over 500,000K.
Engine never touched,but clutches have been an issue.
Runs fully loaded almost on GVM all day.

Yeah..45k seems over the top...guess it is for full genuine dealer fitted new motor ...have seen used complete low k engines sell for up to 25k. Dealer prices are scary..as we know...eg 40k for a new TDV8 motor destroyed by a dealer and 3 months to fix. We passed on buying that car🙄

Just hope LR will come to the party..

[Harsop1]

Harsop1

How long ago did you get your 'reco' engine from those guys? This is where our Disco came from 10 mths ago.

Goldey

In the end after a 6 week battle my extended warranty (insurance Company) coffed up and paid for a new engine from JLR so didn't cost me anything but I will NEVER use JLR for servicing as the Service Manager insisted that the new engine did not need servicing for 26,000km's even after the first engine snapped the Crank, I just cant see where they are coming from with this attitude as they know better than anyone that 26K between services is a death wish for your engine.

[INter674]

Well done.

How much did it cost?

I've halved the service intervals. Oil is cheap.

[p38arover]

I know of a mechanic that has had a D3 stuck at his place for several years. It needs a new engine and he’s unable to locate/contact the owner. So it sits there, in the sun, slowly degrading. It probably now almost worthless.

[scarry]

I know of a mechanic that has had a D3 stuck at his place for several years. It needs a new engine and he’s unable to locate/contact the owner. So it sits there, in the sun, slowly degrading. It probably now almost worthless.

After a certain amount of time he is able to dispose of it.

There is one down the road from our place,in someones front yard, been sitting under a tree for at least two yrs,on its bump stops.

The boys call it the place with a Land Rover garden gnome.[biggrin]

[ozscott]

I know of a mechanic that has had a D3 stuck at his place for several years. It needs a new engine and he’s unable to locate/contact the owner. So it sits there, in the sun, slowly degrading. It probably now almost worthless.Unfortunately a D3 with a shot diesel motor will be worthless as soon as the motor gives up. And that probably applies to most D4's now. It's quite sad but the way it is. The motors are just too costly to replace for the value of the vehicle. The same comment might be applied to a D2 but at least low mileage second hand motors are cheap and very easy to work on. Eg I paid $1600 for a 4.6 V8 with 40,000k on it (imported from Hong Kong) and quite easy for a home mechanic to fit and replace head gaskets on etc. Cheers

[wlin88]

I had similar thing that happens to me 2 year ago towing my caravan on the way back but it was not the bearing it was the failing water inlet manifold for the engine .

End up cook the engine and melted a of the injector (got really hot) I left it for about a year seeking for a donor car now however it was not easy to find .

I stumble across the ad on gumtree the same add was link some where on the page in the beginning I was very hesitant to do so however just like some of us says this car is worthless with out a working engine so I bite the bullet went to them and had the engine rebuild . 16k later my car back on the road again . I needed a 7 seater with 3500kg towing capacity there is not much of option on the market beside 200 series or a patrol. Assuming selling a car with blown engine for 10k adding the 16k for the engine there is not much around for under 30k .

I have done 7000 kms on the new engine so far so good touch wood. I have tow with the car few times already seen to be fine .

Hank is really helpful and his head tech knows the rover inside out . He does basically nothing beside rebuilding these engines so it’s worth to give it shot . If you need more info please pm me and I am happy to share .

Best of luck .

[INter674]

One owner D3 HSE sold for 5k recently here..new tyres... full service history..needs new engine etc. It sold very quick so guess a wrecker bought it. Such a shame but not uncommon for cars to suddenly become worthless due to (often) minor panel damage..over supply..or mechanical catastrophe. Not that long ago auctions were selling ex govt fleet cars two at a time.

Insurance wanted to write off daughters 2016 low k zook after hitting a wallaby..needed bonnet..front skirt. Ac parts etc. We negotiated a payout...fixed it ourselves and banked the savings☺

[eddy]

Looks like another bit of preventive maintenance required for the crank, apart from regular oil changes....replace with a solid billet crankshaft from NWS motor services in the UK.But then check quality....made in China?

[loanrangie]

One owner D3 HSE sold for 5k recently here..new tyres... full service history..needs new engine etc. It sold very quick so guess a wrecker bought it. Such a shame but not uncommon for cars to suddenly become worthless due to (often) minor panel damage..over supply..or mechanical catastrophe. Not that long ago auctions were selling ex govt fleet cars two at a time.

Insurance wanted to write off daughters 2016 low k zook after hitting a wallaby..needed bonnet..front skirt. Ac parts etc. We negotiated a payout...fixed it ourselves and banked the savings☺

Territory motors are about 2.5k now so a fairly cheap repair if you can do it yourself.

[ozscott]

Territory motors are about 2.5k now so a fairly cheap repair if you can do it yourself.Need body off facilities?

Cheers

[goldey]

Got a message from my mechanic this morning. All going well we should get our big D4 back before the Oct long weekend. Can't wait, its been way too long.

[BradC]

Looks like another bit of preventive maintenance required for the crank, apart from regular oil changes....replace with a solid billet crankshaft from NWS motor services in the UK.But then check quality....made in China?

Yeah, but a “billet” of what? While it implies it has been machined out of a chunk of something rather than cast and formed, there’s a billet of steel, then there’s a billet of steel. Cast, forged or drawn? 4140 or recycled third world coke cans?

[loanrangie]

Need body off facilities?

Cheers

No can be done body on.

[Mungus]

Posted this in another thread as well, but thought I’d also post it in here because both recent threads are related and it gives a good insight to the crank and bearings. It’s a five part series of a rebuild due to bearing failure. Very interesting.

Land Rover Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Engine Rebuild Part 1 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/NaGg_qDd5L8)

[oka374]

After watching those video's What a nightmare!

[goldey]

It's almost done. Just some last minute gaskets to fix and we can pick it up...... What a journey! Can't wait to get him home though.

[geoffmc]

Posted this in another thread as well, but thought I’d also post it in here because both recent threads are related and it gives a good insight to the crank and bearings. It’s a five part series of a rebuild due to bearing failure. Very interesting.

Land Rover Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Engine Rebuild Part 1 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/NaGg_qDd5L8)

Hey Mungus,

thanks for posting this link, very informative, to say theleast. One point i picked up in the first vid, was that one of the early markers to this catastrophy occuring, is the timing gear rattle, for a couple of seconds after cold starts. This causes the crank to run pretty much dry until oil pressure builds up, increasing the friction on the bearings, which eventually leads to bearing failure. I have noticed that mine has this rattle for a couple of seconds and im wonering what could be done to minimise this, without have the oil pump replced. One thing that crossed my mind, was to turn over the engine for a few seconds, without my foot on the brake, so it wont start, but to assist in building oil pressure, at a lower crank speed. I know this isnt a fix, but am wondering if this could help minimise the time, as witch the crank in running dry at a greater speed. All comments greatly accepted, if this is a viable option for the short term.

cheers
Geoff

[rar110]

Hey Mungus,

thanks for posting this link, very informative, to say theleast. One point i picked up in the first vid, was that one of the early markers to this catastrophy occuring, is the timing gear rattle, for a couple of seconds after cold starts. This causes the crank to run pretty much dry until oil pressure builds up, increasing the friction on the bearings, which eventually leads to bearing failure. I have noticed that mine has this rattle for a couple of seconds and im wonering what could be done to minimise this, without have the oil pump replced. One thing that crossed my mind, was to turn over the engine for a few seconds, without my foot on the brake, so it wont start, but to assist in building oil pressure, at a lower crank speed. I know this isnt a fix, but am wondering if this could help minimise the time, as witch the crank in running dry at a greater speed. All comments greatly accepted, if this is a viable option for the short term.

cheers
Geoff

This product might help (if it does what it says) by leaving a film of lubricant on the bearings.

MOS2 FRICTION REDUCER - GERMAN OILS & ADDITIVES (https://www.germanoils.com.au/products/mos2-friction-reducer/)

[goldey]

Well, brought him home yesterday arvo. All going well with the new heartbeat, I forgot how smooth and quiet these vehicles are [bigsmile1]. Just some software upgrades for the gearbox to go and back on track with the mods for a future trip. Question for all, what's the go with the cheap ass snorkels? Are the safari ones worth the (considerably more) extra coin?

Cheers

Goldey

[loanrangie]

Well, brought him home yesterday arvo. All going well with the new heartbeat, I forgot how smooth and quiet these vehicles are [bigsmile1]. Just some software upgrades for the gearbox to go and back on track with the mods for a future trip. Question for all, what's the go with the cheap ass snorkels? Are the safari ones worth the (considerably more) extra coin?

Cheers

Goldey

Look at the airflow snorkel, less than half the price of the safari and made in Melbourne.

[Graeme]

Are the safari ones worth the (considerably more) extra coin?
I didn't think so and the cheapie is still in good condition 10 years later.

[Turtle60]

Well, brought him home yesterday arvo. All going well with the new heartbeat, I forgot how smooth and quiet these vehicles are [bigsmile1]. Just some software upgrades for the gearbox to go and back on track with the mods for a future trip. Question for all, what's the go with the cheap ass snorkels? Are the safari ones worth the (considerably more) extra coin?

Cheers

Goldey
Well done Goldie for your courage under fire and still feeling the love. Hope you get a million miles out of it. On a side note a conversation with Sydney rebuilder say ALL 3.0lt version can suffer this fate and Says it’s due to incorrect tolerance from the factory on the original crank ultimately allowing the shells to spin. The rebuilds he sells for 12k exchange apparently rectify this. But the crankshaft shells are still not keyed so one does wonder.
On a risk vs cost ratio I can swallow the risk that it won’t happen and the cost (not happily) if it does but with plenty of remote travel ahead the thought of this a long way from help is perhaps too bigger cross to bare.

[rar110]

Well, brought him home yesterday arvo. All going well with the new heartbeat, I forgot how smooth and quiet these vehicles are [bigsmile1]. Just some software upgrades for the gearbox to go and back on track with the mods for a future trip. Question for all, what's the go with the cheap ass snorkels? Are the safari ones worth the (considerably more) extra coin?

Cheers

Goldey

That’s good news. So what path did you go in the end? I saw one of your previous posts mentioned a motor from a donor vehicle. Thanks.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Hey Mungus,

thanks for posting this link, very informative, to say theleast. One point i picked up in the first vid, was that one of the early markers to this catastrophy occuring, is the timing gear rattle, for a couple of seconds after cold starts. This causes the crank to run pretty much dry until oil pressure builds up, increasing the friction on the bearings, which eventually leads to bearing failure. I have noticed that mine has this rattle for a couple of seconds and im wonering what could be done to minimise this, without have the oil pump replced. One thing that crossed my mind, was to turn over the engine for a few seconds, without my foot on the brake, so it wont start, but to assist in building oil pressure, at a lower crank speed. I know this isnt a fix, but am wondering if this could help minimise the time, as witch the crank in running dry at a greater speed. All comments greatly accepted, if this is a viable option for the short term.

cheers
Geoff
That "rattle" is the timing chain at the top of the engine, between the outer cam and inner cam, the outer is driven off the timing belt. This has nothing to do with the crank not having any oil. This noise occurs because the oil is sitting in the sump (where it should be, and not on your garage floor) to ensure the crank and all big ends get enough oil. Plus the oil pump needs enough head to ensure oil is sprayed where its supposed to go. Theres nothing to do or worry about with the timing chain rattle. It will always happen and you cant fix it with a new oil pump. If it goes on longer than a second or two, then your timing chain guides and/or timing chain is stretched. Keep your oil levels correct, change oil every 10,000km and use only the specified grade and oil type, oem filters and you've got a decent chance of not having a catastrophic failure.

Also, i dont know how you intend to crank the engine without your foot on the brake, these are interlocked.

[PerthDisco]

2.7D has same described rattle for 2-3 seconds after start exactly until oil pressure light goes off.

The guy in the video states the top mounted oil filter is a big part of the problem in the time taken to build pressure which has been debunked largely. I still don’t think there is a definitive agreed single fault.

[DiscoDB]

I still don’t there is a definitive agreed single fault.

Fully agree - there will always be multiple issues that can cause a crank (and engine) failure. This will be both pre-existing conditions and contributing actions that any one can have the same result.

Design will be high on the list but will not be the only cause.

[PerthDisco]

Fully agree - there will always be multiple issues that can cause a crank (and engine) failure. This will be both pre-existing conditions and contributing actions that any one can have the same result.

Design will be high on the list but will not be the only cause.

Much like tooth decay [emoji23]

[geoffmc]

Hi Eric,

thanks for the clarification re timing chains. I did wonder if installing a oil pump at the same time as the timing belt, would improve the timing chain growl. It does only last a secodn or 2, but now that i know of it, i cant not hear potential consequences, and i have managed to turn the motor over without it starting, but you have to be quick with your foot and it does reduce the timing chain noise.

I did pour some of the Liqui Moly, to reduce friction in the bottom end, whether ot actually helps or not, i may never know but it adds a mental placebo..lol

cheers
Geoff


That "rattle" is the timing chain at the top of the engine, between the outer cam and inner cam, the outer is driven off the timing belt. This has nothing to do with the crank not having any oil. This noise occurs because the oil is sitting in the sump (where it should be, and not on your garage floor) to ensure the crank and all big ends get enough oil. Plus the oil pump needs enough head to ensure oil is sprayed where its supposed to go. Theres nothing to do or worry about with the timing chain rattle. It will always happen and you cant fix it with a new oil pump. If it goes on longer than a second or two, then your timing chain guides and/or timing chain is stretched. Keep your oil levels correct, change oil every 10,000km and use only the specified grade and oil type, oem filters and you've got a decent chance of not having a catastrophic failure.

Also, i dont know how you intend to crank the engine without your foot on the brake, these are interlocked.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Id be hesitant in adding friction modifiers to you oil for these close tolerance engines. Stick with the 5w30 full synthetics as per LR spec and their factory additive packages already in the oil...and frequent oil changes.

[PerthDisco]

Edit

[TheBear]

Hi,
Having just read this thread, I'm rather sh*tting my pants about the upcoming purchase I'm about to make. I want a *nice* car, 7 seats but as I live by the beach, want to be able to get on there with some minor off road camping and the Disco 4 was my car of choice. Budget is allowing an SDV6 around MY12/13, km's range from 120k to 200k so I'm wondering if I'm setting my self up for a huge issue.

Aside from the frequent 10k oil changes, is an NRMA/inspection from a garage on the car going to give me any insights into a problem going forward? I'm guessing no by the way some people have said they have treated their cars. Of course, I'll look for FSH and things of that nature.

Regards

Bear

[scarry]

is an NRMA/inspection from a garage on the car going to give me any insights into a problem going forward?
Regards

Bear

No,very difficult to pick the problem, but its certainly a low % of vehicles.

Regular service records are very important.

Forget NRMA,get a good LR Indy to go over the vehicle, not a dealer.

Someone may chime in with a good one near you.

[josh.huber]

Buy one with some sort of really good warranty plan

[DazzaTD5]

No,very difficult to pick the problem, but its certainly a low % of vehicles.

Regular service records are very important.

Forget NRMA,get a good LR Indy to go over the vehicle, not a dealer.

Someone may chime in with a good one near you.

Absolutely!

[goldey]

Update from the original post owner.

Well, what was thought to be a simple software update to fix the shifting issues of the new gearbox (the new 2nd hand engine is working exceptionally well and sounds and pulls great, [bawl] when the gearbox was playing that is[bigsad]) has turned out to be something mechanical it appears.

The D4 went back with our very helpful Indy on Sunday to further diagnose the issue [bighmmm]. We may end up with our original box put back in yet........... Hopefully find out soon.

Cheers

Goldey

[StephCraig]

We have just experienced exactly the same scenario.
Travelling home from the coast in our 3.0l HSE Disco 4... just highway driving, not towing and knock, shimmy, stop.
We just heard from the dealer today the 4 years and 121K kms after spending more than $100K, our car needs a completely new engine + turbos and we can expect a bill of $55K...
Sorry???
What????????
So you buy the car you expect to last you for the rest of your driving life, and possibly tow you and you van around the country and she lasts 4 years?

We are ... appalled.

The car has been serviced religiously and treated with great respect, and yet here we are.
We are bloody horrified.
My 14 year old Mazda 3 has 180K on the clock and has been properly abused and has never missed a beat.

Obviously we have made a call to LR. Anxiously awaiting their response.

[goldey]

I'm sorry to hear of your failure.

As per the other thread I would be pursuing LR for a no cost replacement as well given the age and low kms and your circumstances.

For us, it was handled by a second hand replacement when LR washed their hands, but that is what we were left with.

Hopefully you get a suitable outcome.

Goldey

[ozscott]

If the service history is good then lawyering up for some advice or getting the ACCC involved first would be a good move. Cheers

[ATH]

"From what I've read the failed engines don't seem to be age related failures, they are totally random." This is why I'm selling mine. 2016 D4 always serviced at half the hand book intervals as we do a lot of short run plus I'm a bit of a fanatic about clean oils in everything in cars.
Don't like the look of the D5, Defender too expensive at 130K for what it is plus the Cook doesn't like the look of it. :) That counts for a lot if I want a quiet life.
May go and buy another Prado as we had a 120 series moons ago which was trouble free but had an awful 4 speed box. Foot down and all we got was more noise but they now have a 6 speed which should improve things.
I'd rather stay with a Landie but think 130K for a Defender is asking too much for what they are now.
AlanH.

[Gravy]

Sorry to hear of you fellas misfortunes, hope my luck hangs in there

I procrastinated at length prior to purchasing my D4 however once I drove it and did the maths on other options to legally tow my 6.5m caravan, I bit the bullet. Sales people were advising stay well clear of LRs, they did have their agendas to purchase their own stock items which did not match the price point that my budget could sustain.

Unfortunately the knowledge gained on this forum has placed further argument against my decision. To negate this there are many great experiences being communicated on this forum and great knowledge on how to maintain this vehicle in an economical manner.

I hope LR stands by their customers.

[haydent]

FYI: "Also for anyone wondering, here is TDV6 vs TDV8 crank for comparison, much thicker !"

Why do 2.7 cranks break? (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/288338-why-do-2-7-cranks-break-post3119039.html#post3119039)

[scarry]

LR stands by their customers.

From what i have seen on here,and other places, and my experience with LR,that definitely is not something they can crow about.

[RHS58]

More likely it seems LR stands behind their customers, bends them over, and…..

[PerthDisco]

There’s an interesting post on FB. Guy bought 2.7D with 260k km (a super cheap bargain) and noticed oil filter had plenty of shiny stuff in it.

“Joshua Westbrook 2.7. 260k kms.These were the two bad ones on journals 3 and 4. The other two were fine.”

“I did the conrod bearings first before removing the oil pump. That allowed me to rotate the crank without losing the timing, then I rolled mains 2-4. Journal 1 is very tight without removing the oil pump as it keeps the crank seated up. I locked the timing gear and I removed the oil pump which allowed me plenty of room to roll new main bearings in. Oil pump was renewed during the process.”

An option prior to expensive engine destruction for 3.0s and 2.7 but keeping a super close eye on the oil filter contamination also very important. (Plus optimal oil pressure and oil selection)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230116/d05854a02693e0d0921d406a79c2cbc0.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230116/343125e8c34921ff4eaf22fa38049392.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230116/e860d11d670c5ffd189e957b7d89141f.jpg

[DiscoJeffster]

I had all my bearings switched out at 270,000km on my 3L. I feel it was well worth investment.

[Graeme]

“I did the conrod bearings first before removing the oil pump. That allowed me to rotate the crank without losing the timing, then I rolled mains 2-4. Journal 1 is very tight without removing the oil pump as it keeps the crank seated up. I locked the timing gear and I removed the oil pump which allowed me plenty of room to roll new main bearings in. Oil pump was renewed during the process.”Was this done just by removing the sump?

[PerthDisco]

Was this done just by removing the sump?

Yes and there’s a second collar as well above the sump pan. You’d be removing a bit of the front axle as well probably.

[PeterOZ]

what sort of $$$ to get that done? I was going to get new oil pump, the 15mm impeller FordMCO version when the timing belts get done later in the year but may also consider bearings.

[PerthDisco]

Worst Diesel Engine on the Planet ? Ford Lion V6 - Land Rover TDV6 SDV6 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/v3moekbW6z8)

Another epic

[Tombie]

Worst Diesel Engine on the Planet ? Ford Lion V6 - Land Rover TDV6 SDV6 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/v3moekbW6z8)

Another epic

Theyre starting to lose the plot a bit I reckon! Its a typical phenomenon - Make an entertaining channel, get a following and then have people almost 100% believe every word you say.

Whilst the failures are claimed to be extremely frequent, based on the number of actual engines produced vs the failures - the rate is still quite low. Forums etc exacibate it

[loanrangie]

Theyre starting to lose the plot a bit I reckon! Its a typical phenomenon - Make an entertaining channel, get a following and then have people almost 100% believe every word you say.

Whilst the failures are claimed to be extremely frequent, based on the number of actual engines produced vs the failures - the rate is still quite low. Forums etc exacibate it

Even if its the forum phenomenon if you look at the pommy groups its nearly everyday a 2.7 or 3.0 engine is dead and being replaced, could be age related or just lack of maintenance.

[Pippin]

Even if its the forum phenomenon if you look at the pommy groups its nearly everyday a 2.7 or 3.0 engine is dead and being replaced, could be age related or just lack of maintenance. Nearly every day out of how many 2.7 or 3.0 UK Discovery's?

[simonmelb]

Ignoring all the silly waffle / hyped up panic, I’d be interested to know is there anything fundamentally wrong in his technical conclusions / hypothesis of reasons of failures?


Theyre starting to lose the plot a bit I reckon! Its a typical phenomenon - Make an entertaining channel, get a following and then have people almost 100% believe every word you say.

Whilst the failures are claimed to be extremely frequent, based on the number of actual engines produced vs the failures - the rate is still quite low. Forums etc exacibate it

[Tombie]

Even if its the forum phenomenon if you look at the pommy groups its nearly everyday a 2.7 or 3.0 engine is dead and being replaced, could be age related or just lack of maintenance.

Looking at the UK forums, I’d say combination of both, combined with the batch of bad metallurgy they did admit to having.


LR home mechanics (loose definition) are rife on the groups and wow, cheapest parts, cheapest oil, poor practices…. Combined I’m not surprised the failure rates increased on the pages.

Sure, factory log serviced vehicles have failed, but they are few and far between.

[loanrangie]

Nearly every day out of how many 2.7 or 3.0 UK Discovery's?

A lot more than here but it shows that its not very forgiving engine design.

[scarry]

LR home mechanics (loose definition) are rife on the groups and wow, cheapest parts, cheapest oil, poor practices…. Combined I’m not surprised the failure rates increased on the pages..

Same as any brand,but some don’t seem to have anywhere near the issues,and many are not a low volume seller such as LR.

[PerthDisco]

The explanation was good. I think a few very interesting points;

Total bearing width vs say a 1HZ straight-6 and 7 vs 4 main bearings. You can’t beat that if you want a million km engine.

The oil supply galleries to the conrods in the crank affecting troubled middle main bearings with low pressure and pulses.

The observation of huge torque in the SDV6 and nailing it from 1500rpm causing massive stress in an already stressed system with longer oil change intervals. Driving behaviour is an unknown causation factor.

The fudging of the oil pressure limits from the 2.7 to 3.0.

I’d love to go in and check main bearings as at least you’d only need to remove the middle lower caps to know immediately what wear exists.

[Tombie]

Same as any brand,but some don’t seem to have anywhere near the issues,and many are not a low volume seller such as LR.

Actually dont observe it too much here amongst many of the 4wd clubs in SA. Lots of Indy or Dealer servicing - especially in the Toyota camp if the vehicle is under 10 years old..
What I do see (around here), in known, regularly serviced Toyotas - is plenty of flat beds...

Even the drive home from QLD in the RRS had me watching several LC on flat beds with van hanging behind tray.

Was even chatting with an owner at a fuel stop, who told me I was game taking the RRS that far. I asked him what issues his 200 had ever experienced? The answer was mind boggling given his "Toyota is reliable" mantra.
Turbo actuator, Transmission, Starter, Alternator, Suspension, AC, stereo, LP pump, wheel bearings, fuel system, headlight mount, spot welds... he'd suffered them all... "Not too bad for 120,000km though", says he.
When asked about oil and fuel consumption - the response was golden - he puts in 1-2 litres of oil every 2-3000km and "does really good towing" - 22l/100km @ 80km/h

I just smiled... Told him it looks nice and drove off


I found a LC 200 Series group and joined it a while back - it didnt read any different to all the complaints and issues that come up on LR groups [bigwhistle] lots of problems posted.

Toyota warranty response makes JLR look angelic...

[shack]

I asked him what issues his 200 had ever experienced? The answer was mind boggling given his "Toyota is reliable" mantra.
Turbo actuator, Transmission, Starter, Alternator, Suspension, AC, stereo, LP pump, wheel bearings, fuel system, headlight mount, spot welds... he'd suffered them all... "Not too bad for 120,000km though"

Tombie, I think you'll find that is considered reliable by most 200 owners.

I'm sort of amazed how forgiving they are on repairs so they can continue to have the most reliable vehicle.

One guy went in for a couple jobs and came out $30 odd k poorer and never blinked.....

And then an LR has to get an $800 job done and trades it because it costs too much to keep on the road.

[veebs]

Tombie, I think you'll find that is considered reliable by most 200 owners.

I'm sort of amazed how forgiving they are on repairs so they can continue to have the most reliable vehicle.

One guy went in for a couple jobs and came out $30 odd k poorer and never blinked.....

And then an LR has to get an $800 job done and trades it because it costs too much to keep on the road.

I've seen the same, but give the owner a bit more credit - they KNOW the Toyota costs a fortune, but they are willing to pay it to be part of the 'club'. That club doesn't want to admit there is a problem (ie, they bought the wrong car), so it's easier to throw shade at other cars. The Nissan vs Toyota (and Holden vs Ford) mentality is strong...

In my experience, 90% of people have zero imagination at all - why so many drive the exact same car, live in the exact same house, etc etc.

[101RRS]

Tombie - have to agree - my brother bought a new 2010 HiLux at the same time as I bought my used 2007 RRS with 40,000km on it in 2010. My car now has 223,000km and his 200,000km.

Issues with mine other than standard serviceing - EGRs at 60,000km an alternator and a compressor rebuild - thats it.

The Hylux has been pretty good with only three steering columns, in December 2022 a full $3500 rebuild of the gearbox and a week later replace all the injectors (cost unknown as Bro will not tell me).

One thing though, the Hilux has better and more cup holders than my RRS.

We, as a group of LR owners are happy to bash our own vehicles but really they are no better or worse than other brands - my RRS is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned and I have had vehicles for over 50 years now.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Gotta have good cup holders.....but is it enough to justify buying a Toyota??

[shack]

Gotta have good cup holders.....but is it enough to justify buying a Toyota??I'm sold

[scarry]

Actually dont observe it too much here amongst many of the 4wd clubs in SA. Lots of Indy or Dealer servicing - especially in the Toyota camp if the vehicle is under 10 years old..
What I do see (around here), in known, regularly serviced Toyotas - is plenty of flat beds...

Even the drive home from QLD in the RRS had me watching several LC on flat beds with van hanging behind tray.

Was even chatting with an owner at a fuel stop, who told me I was game taking the RRS that far. I asked him what issues his 200 had ever experienced? The answer was mind boggling given his "Toyota is reliable" mantra.
Turbo actuator, Transmission, Starter, Alternator, Suspension, AC, stereo, LP pump, wheel bearings, fuel system, headlight mount, spot welds... he'd suffered them all... "Not too bad for 120,000km though", says he.
When asked about oil and fuel consumption - the response was golden - he puts in 1-2 litres of oil every 2-3000km and "does really good towing" - 22l/100km @ 80km/h

I just smiled... Told him it looks nice and drove off


I found a LC 200 Series group and joined it a while back - it didnt read any different to all the complaints and issues that come up on LR groups [bigwhistle] lots of problems posted.

Toyota warranty response makes JLR look angelic...

Yer,yer,yer,whatever,i dont know who mentioned Toyota?

There many other brands around that also make some of the most reliable vehicles around you could rubbish.

Time to take those rose coloured glasses off.....[wink11]

[veebs]

Yer,yer,yer,whatever,i dont know who mentioned Toyota?

There many other brands around that also make some of the most reliable vehicles around you could rubbish.

Time to take those rose coloured glasses off.....[wink11]

I think the point here, and the following posts, was that EVERYONE is wearing those glasses?

[Discodicky]

Last Thursday my Br in Law had his 8.5 yr old Mercedes Benz RV with 218,000 klms towed back from Conara (Tas) to Hobart by RACT. A loud bang and lots of smoke.....

Has a rod out the side of the block....literally!!
It (was) [bawl] the 2.1 litre (Sprinter??) turbo diesel engine.

Coincidentally, around this time last year the RACT towed him from Little Swanport back to Hobart with a failed auto transmission. That cost around $8500.00

Admittedly it is an ex Rental RV but I know the owner of the (Tas) Camper Rental Company and his vehicles are serviced religiously as per schedules... whatever intervals they are with a Merc.

I'd have thought a Merc engine would have lasted longer than that... they all give problems....

[haydent]

Imagine the pile on if LR had made/used an engine, that like the 'beloved' Ford Ranger's engine couldnt even self prime its oil pump and if you didnt do your oil change in less than 10 mins you could stuff it, if not noticed....

[Discodicky]

Imagine the pile on if LR had made/used an engine, that like the 'beloved' Ford Ranger's engine couldnt even self prime its oil pump and if you didnt do your oil change in less than 10 mins you could stuff it, if not noticed....

......and the GU Nissan Patrol 4 cyl turbo diesel which would explode without warning. I know of 7 engines.

[scarry]

they all give problems....

Correct,but it is well documented that some have more problems than others,not having a go at any brand in particular.
It is just a fact,it isn't BS or rocket science,it is just the way it is.

And as for the silly Ranger oil drainage design,we have had one at work for the last 4 years,and the engine has been fine,not so the rest,the AC has had continual failures,and they are yet to be fully resolved.Not much fun with the heat and humidity ATM.[bigsad][biggrin]

The guy down the road put his year and a half Colorado in for a service and they called him and said it needed a new Engine.It was back in a week all fixed.

But to post something like this," he puts in 1-2 litres of oil every 2-3000km and "does really good towing" - 22l/100km @ 80km/h"is complete BS,unless there is something horribly wrong with the vehicle.Or it is highly modded making it very heavy.

Just imagine the ruckus if LR built a vehicle that had a track around 100mm different front to rear...........[bigsad][biggrin][bighmmm]

[PerthDisco]

I've seen the same, but give the owner a bit more credit - they KNOW the Toyota costs a fortune, but they are willing to pay it to be part of the 'club'. That club doesn't want to admit there is a problem (ie, they bought the wrong car), so it's easier to throw shade at other cars. The Nissan vs Toyota (and Holden vs Ford) mentality is strong...

In my experience, 90% of people have zero imagination at all - why so many drive the exact same car, live in the exact same house, etc etc.

I tease my Tojo owning friends by saying they are accountant and lawyer cars for bland risk adverse people with no imagination and it upsets them greatly.

[ozscott]

Correct,but it is well documented that some have more problems than others,not having a go at any brand in particular.
It is just a fact,it isn't BS or rocket science,it is just the way it is.

And as for the silly Ranger oil drainage design,we have had one at work for the last 4 years,and the engine has been fine,not so the rest,the AC has had continual failures,and they are yet to be fully resolved.Not much fun with the heat and humidity ATM.[bigsad][biggrin]

The guy down the road put his year and a half Colorado in for a service and they called him and said it needed a new Engine.It was back in a week all fixed.

But to post something like this," he puts in 1-2 litres of oil every 2-3000km and "does really good towing" - 22l/100km @ 80km/h"is complete BS,unless there is something horribly wrong with the vehicle.Or it is highly modded making it very heavy.

Just imagine the ruckus if LR built a vehicle that had a track around 100mm different front to rear...........[bigsad][biggrin][bighmmm]One of my brothers had the last of the Colorado. He is a mech and diesel fitter and has a lot of vehicle sympathy. His needed a replacement motor at about 40,000klm due to the amount of oil it was drinking. Cheers

[discomatt69]

One of my brothers had the last of the Colorado. He is a mech and diesel fitter and has a lot of vehicle sympathy. His needed a replacement motor at about 40,000klm due to the amount of oil it was drinking. Cheers
And he would have got one without jumping up and down and the blink of an eye, totally different to how some manufacturers handle engine failure ….

[ozscott]

And he would have got one without jumping up and down and the blink of an eye, totally different to how some manufacturers handle engine failure ….Yep but I suspect owning a 4wd mod centre including tourers and comp trucks that helped. His Coly was emblazoned with his signage and had all the gear. He also did dealer fitting for the dealership where he bought the ute. I had a very poor warranty experience with a VT Commodore that I bought new on every component including warping brake rotors.

Cheers

[Tombie]

Correct,but it is well documented that some have more problems than others,not having a go at any brand in particular.
It is just a fact,it isn't BS or rocket science,it is just the way it is.

And as for the silly Ranger oil drainage design,we have had one at work for the last 4 years,and the engine has been fine,not so the rest,the AC has had continual failures,and they are yet to be fully resolved.Not much fun with the heat and humidity ATM.[bigsad][biggrin]

The guy down the road put his year and a half Colorado in for a service and they called him and said it needed a new Engine.It was back in a week all fixed.

But to post something like this," he puts in 1-2 litres of oil every 2-3000km and "does really good towing" - 22l/100km @ 80km/h"is complete BS,unless there is something horribly wrong with the vehicle.Or it is highly modded making it very heavy.

Just imagine the ruckus if LR built a vehicle that had a track around 100mm different front to rear...........[bigsad][biggrin][bighmmm]


Interesting you say that - a good friend with a 70 Ducal Cab tows a Topaz and gets 18's, still tops the oil up every 5k - asked its about 500ml on his. He tows aroung 90km/h
This is not uncommon at all on that V8 engine, nor is 20+/100 fuel burn. I see it regularly around here. Chatting to nomads in the caravan park 18-20 seems the normal burn with 2.5-3.0t in tow @80-85km/h


Whilst Toy Motor has a strong reputation for reliability - their 200 doesnt seem to have shared that trait, at least not globally - with some of "those" USA surveys ranking them in the bottom half of the SUV catagory. Events such as "shutting down without warning" (sound familiar [bigwhistle]) being one of the traits regularly reported.

Now that they have to produce EU5 spec diesels it will be interesting to see how reliable they remain, traditionally Japanese diesels have been lower tech, lower stress units as they avoided the high EU regulated markets.


Its not entirely rose coloured glasses (although I do like my LRs), I get enough drive experience in Fords, Toyotas and occasionally Nissans in 4x4 form to know I wouldnt own one, and that they all have the same issues.
I have more than enough Toyota owners as mates who for whatever reason - will spend a small fortune maintaining them / correcting issues - and then conveniently 'forget' they spent so much on their 'reliable' vehicle.

Then theres a good friend, who purchased a brand new 70 dual cab 3 years ago, a very Rose coloured glasses Toyoda loyal (Pastarolist) its had a gearboxe, a new transfer case and clutch.. and it still grinds and vibrates like crazy - absolutely terrible.
Toyoda has voided the warranty claiming fitting the Bullbar and suspension kit (fitted by Toyoda pre-delivery) has altered the driveline angles causing the misalignment and damage -I **** you not - its in the hands of courts and lawyers at the moment.
In the meantime its had to have a Starter, injectors and a new stereo. Its safe to say, he is no longer a Toyota buyer and is looking at all manner of alternatives for its replacement.

Mum, who likes her RAVs and always buys top spec ones, they have an easy life, we're talking vehicles that after 5 years have barely 30,000km on them but are serviced every 6 months - well theres been a few problems - saddest being Toyota wouldnt fixed the split leather on the front seats, claiming wear and tear.
Mechanical issues always were "not normal wear and tear" and they'd push hard to not warranty the repairs.
And their delaers are inept and find ways to circumvent the cap price services - like when they charged 4 hours labour to put the PIN into the stereo after the battery went flat - at the dealers - having been serviced.


All vehicles have their problems - LR owners tend to get frustrated by them - Toy Yoda owners tend to get alzheimers about them or treat them like Fight Club

[Tins]

......and the GU Nissan Patrol 4 cyl turbo diesel which would explode without warning. I know of 7 engines.

Great example of what happens when an engine is overstressed. The ZD30 is actually a very good engine in the correct application, as shown by it's reliability in the Navara. Put it into a Patrol, which weighs about a tonne more, unladen, and the poor thing struggles, so instead of fitting an appropriate engine for the task Nissan simply wound up the boost and hey presto, a hand grenade was born. Sound familiar? Got a feeling Toyota may find this out with the 300. Ford sure is with the EcoBoost family, at least in the US.

I know I've oversimplified the issue a little, but the engine builder we are talking to re a TD42 ( bloke is regarded as a guru by the Datsun fraternity ) loves the ZD30 in the correct application.

[loanrangie]

Great example of what happens when an engine is overstressed. The ZD30 is actually a very good engine in the correct application, as shown by it's reliability in the Navara. Put it into a Patrol, which weighs about a tonne more, unladen, and the poor thing struggles, so instead of fitting an appropriate engine for the task Nissan simply wound up the boost and hey presto, a hand grenade was born. Sound familiar? Got a feeling Toyota may find this out with the 300. Ford sure is with the EcoBoost family, at least in the US.

I know I've oversimplified the issue a little, but the engine builder we are talking to re a TD42 ( bloke is regarded as a guru by the Datsun fraternity ) loves the ZD30 in the correct application.

The ZD30 in my dads Navara **** itself so definitely not just a patrol problem.

[Tins]

The ZD30 in my dads Navara **** itself so definitely not just a patrol problem.

Far rarer though. Nothing's perfect Nick.

[haydent]

Popcorn time:

Opinion: Why the Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series 3.3-litre V6 diesel has a lot to prove

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/why-the-toyota-landcruiser-300-series-3-3-litre-v6-diesel-has-a-lot-to-prove/


Much of the negative speculation comes from a few basic observations. Firstly, the power density of the new 3.3-litre V6 is significantly higher than previous-generation turbo diesels.


How do you get more performance out of less capacity? You make it as efficient as possible, and add extra boost and fuel.


...which means the turbochargers are nestled within the vee of the cylinders. Hence the name: hot vee.

Hot vees have a chequered history since BMW brought out the first production engine in 2008





However, there is a potential problem: turbochargers can get bloody hot. And when they are nestled in between the cylinder banks with precious little airflow around them to help keep them cool, problems can arise.



If it does prove to be less reliable, it wouldn’t be the first time a respected manufacturer of diesel engines did a less than reliable job.

Nissan’s infamous ZD30 turbo diesel engine – its first common-rail motor after a prestigious history of stout reliable mechanical diesel engines – quickly earned its ‘hand grenade’ reputation as it made a habit of religiously melting pistons.

It was, unfortunately, a reputation that was fairly earned. There was an inherent design fault with the ZD30; something Nissan eventually ironed out.




Having just rode in relatives $140k LC300 GR its nice on the inside, i think the front end and bonnet looks terrible, and the v6 sounds underwhelming and nothing compared to a v8 [biggrin]

seems like they are only just adopting features LR has had for over a decade: electric controlled viscous fan, electric controlled anti roll, electric controlled dampers, electric controlled engine mounts

[loanrangie]

Popcorn time:

Opinion: Why the Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series 3.3-litre V6 diesel has a lot to prove

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/why-the-toyota-landcruiser-300-series-3-3-litre-v6-diesel-has-a-lot-to-prove/











Having just rode in relatives $140k LC300 GR its nice on the inside, i think the front end and bonnet looks terrible, and the v6 sounds underwhelming and nothing compared to a v8 [biggrin]

seems like they are only just adopting features LR has had for over a decade: electric controlled viscous fan, electric controlled anti roll, electric controlled dampers, electric controlled engine mounts


Toyota have always been imitators, never innovators.

[Arch]

Fantastic to see such a sore and sorry response to a youtuber comparing a well know LR design fault to excellent and simple engineering. Very typical of this forum.

My RRS was nice but I wouldn't take it to the anywhere near the places my old 1HZ powered LC80 goes and still goes after 570,000kms.

[Tombie]

Fantastic to see such a sore and sorry response to a youtuber comparing a well know LR design fault to excellent and simple engineering. Very typical of this forum.

My RRS was nice but I wouldn't take it to the anywhere near the places my old 1HZ powered LC80 goes and still goes after 570,000kms.

Thats your choice and I respect your opinion and rights to it. SOunds like you may have had a poor run with your RRS.


However; Comparing your low powered 1HZ (a reliable, old school, very understressed, high emissions engine) with a basic suspension system against any modern, low emissions engined, tech filled vehicle is Apples and Oranges.



As for the reverence of a Youtuber - They have a great channel, I find much of it entertaining, and find the things they do interesting. I do take much of it with a grain of salt and I do have access to some seriously good resources to test their hypothesis.
Its quite an amazing phenomenon that making a nice video is treated with almost complete adherence to the content provided without actually validating it.

[DiscoDB]

As for the reverence of a Youtuber - They have a great channel, I find much of it entertaining, and find the things they do interesting. I do take much of it with a grain of salt and I do have access to some seriously good resources to test their hypothesis.

Its quite an amazing phenomenon that making a nice video is treated with almost complete adherence to the content provided without actually validating it.

I actually really struggled watching that last video. Took me three attempts to watch it in full. Was too much “smug know it all” attitude for me to enjoy it. And still had inaccuracies which are misleading.

Rebuilds one engine and clearly thinks he is now an engine designer - but fails to make the connection that you can not compare a V6 crankshaft design with an inline 6 and then claim it is because Ford Management know nothing about engine design.

Ford know a lot about engine design and yes there is a weakness with the TDV6 design, as is common in many V6 engines, and yes there have been assembly and manufacturing issues along the way, but it a very successful motor that Ford still use to this day after 2 decades since it was first designed. Truly transforms any vehicle it is fitted to.

Designing a compact high torque/high power/fuel efficient engine that can be used across multiple platforms is a challenge and Ford did well. It was the right engine for its time and well ahead of what others had to offer. So good in fact that the engineering team at Ford Australia are backing it 20yrs later in what has the potential to be one of the highest selling vehicles across the world (for its class).

Take out the slander and stick to being entertaining and it would have been enjoyable to watch. He made a few good comments….in the wrong context. Was click bait and turning into what is hated about many self-proclaimed experts on you-tube.

P.s. but I do believe worn/high mileage TDV6 engines operating in warm to hot climates should use 5W-40 (to the right minimum spec). I also believe the oil pump should be changed with every timing belt change - and always with the latest version of the original Ford pump.

Sorry Margaret - I did not like it - I gave it 2 stars. [emoji16]

[Discodicky]

Great example of what happens when an engine is overstressed. The ZD30 is actually a very good engine in the correct application, as shown by it's reliability in the Navara. Put it into a Patrol, which weighs about a tonne more, unladen, and the poor thing struggles, so instead of fitting an appropriate engine for the task Nissan simply wound up the boost and hey presto, a hand grenade was born. Sound familiar? Got a feeling Toyota may find this out with the 300. Ford sure is with the EcoBoost family, at least in the US.

I know I've oversimplified the issue a little, but the engine builder we are talking to re a TD42 ( bloke is regarded as a guru by the Datsun fraternity ) loves the ZD30 in the correct application.

My understanding was that the catastrophic blow ups were due to EGR associated problems.

I am a fan of Nissan drivelines incl engines, having had many Patrols as a company vehicle.

Their gearboxes and diffs are (historically at least) much stronger than their main competitor (Toyota).

[grey_ghost]

Interesting...

A guy at work is trading in his Range Rover L405 with only 108,000km on the clock - SDV6 went "boom" - 2 weeks before his new Range Rover (L460) is due to arrive...

Trucked to a Victorian Land Rover Dealer...

Confirmed - engine go BOOM. (Last Thursday)

He asked me: "What's a new engine worth" - I replied "geez I don't know, at least $20k I would think".

Anyway - Land Rover have come back today and agreed to replace the engine - all parts & labour covered. No cost to the owner..

I'm guessing that it helped that he is trading it in on a new L460 - although he said: "With a new engine - maybe I should keep it?"

[discomatt69]

Yep they are all crap, brother in law has a brand new Ranger, V6 , had it 2 months, already logging faults, auto needs to be removed for repairs
Nice car though, my Disco 4 , well maintained, 120,000km , 10 years old this year, not one break down or fault , sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Probably just mozzed myself big time….

[Tins]

Yep they are all crap, brother in law has a brand new Ranger, V6 , had it 2 months, already logging faults, auto needs to be removed for repairs
Nice car though, my Disco 4 , well maintained, 120,000km , 10 years old this year, not one break down or fault , sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Probably just mozzed myself big time….

Indeed. Son just sold his 3.2 Ranger. 150k and the only fault was a dud thermostat at around 20k, known issue done under warranty. Apart from service items they never touched it. It towed a van, a boat, and came to Winter Wombat and went everywhere the Landies went with no issue.

[Tins]

Fantastic to see such a sore and sorry response to a youtuber comparing a well know LR design fault to excellent and simple engineering. Very typical of this forum.

My RRS was nice but I wouldn't take it to the anywhere near the places my old 1HZ powered LC80 goes and still goes after 570,000kms.

As Tombie says, you are entitled to your opinions. However, I have spent some time on the 'Cruiser and Patrol fora and would contend that you will find far more honesty about the shortcomings of owner's vehicles on this one than you ever will on those. We are all aware of LR's failings over the years. We don't try and pretend they don't exist in the way Toyota owners do.

[PerthDisco]

Simon Cotter on Twitter been posting many interesting updates on LC300

https://twitter.com/simoncotter62/status/1620708122309566465's=12

[PerthDisco]

If you ever wondered what putting in 12 litres of oil does

Clever kid

Land Rover Discovery Catastrophic Engine Damage! Engine swap. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/xEqn5ZQm0w4)

[Tins]

If you ever wondered what putting in 12 litres of oil does

Clever kid

Land Rover Discovery Catastrophic Engine Damage! Engine swap. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/xEqn5ZQm0w4)

Wow.

He's not wrong about running on, although I call it a runaway. The old GM diesels were famous for it. Bloody scary when they did it.

[haydent]

and went everywhere the Landies went with no issue.

doesnt hurt that ranger comes with rear diff lock...

[Laurie]

The best analysis of the problems with the TdV6, well worth a look ! [thumbsupbig]

Worst Diesel Engine on the Planet ? Ford Lion V6 - Land Rover TDV6 SDV6 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/v3moekbW6z8)

[scarry]

As Tombie says, you are entitled to your opinions. However, I have spent some time on the 'Cruiser and Patrol fora and would contend that you will find far more honesty about the shortcomings of owner's vehicles on this one than you ever will on those. We are all aware of LR's failings over the years. We don't try and pretend they don't exist in the way Toyota owners do.

I have found the same with many brands,including LR owners.

Could give a couple of good examples,but i think we have had enough"Brand Bashing" for a few months...[thumbsupbig]

[Tombie]

The best analysis of the problems with the TdV6, well worth a look ! [thumbsupbig]

Worst Diesel Engine on the Planet ? Ford Lion V6 - Land Rover TDV6 SDV6 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/v3moekbW6z8)

No its not, lots of opinion, vitrol and guessing... It's been discussed in here (wiuth real world data)

[Tins]

doesnt hurt that ranger comes with rear diff lock...

True, but bear in mind that the Landies on that Wombat ( pre covid ) were mostly modified as well.

Ranger was DIL's car. She's just picked up her new, well demo, Y62. Don't think he's taking that to the next Wombat, if there is one.

[ozscott]

The new crop of dual cab utes have good traction control too of varying degrees. Cheers

[Discodicky]

Last Thursday my Br in Law had his 8.5 yr old Mercedes Benz RV with 218,000 klms towed back from Conara (Tas) to Hobart by RACT. A loud bang and lots of smoke.....

Has a rod out the side of the block....literally!!
It (was) [bawl] the 2.1 litre (Sprinter??) turbo diesel engine.

Coincidentally, around this time last year the RACT towed him from Little Swanport back to Hobart with a failed auto transmission. That cost around $8500.00

Admittedly it is an ex Rental RV but I know the owner of the (Tas) Camper Rental Company and his vehicles are serviced religiously as per schedules... whatever intervals they are with a Merc.

I'd have thought a Merc engine would have lasted longer than that... they all give problems....

....further to this, FYI I can add more as from today.
Turns out it is a 2008 model with the Sprinter engine, 2.1 litres.

A long story short, after exhaustive searching, no engines available anywhere in Aus, either new or SH.

Some "reco" engines advertised on E-bay from overseas but of course are unknown/dubious quality, and apparently they have similar compatibility issues like when swapping a 2.7 Ford Territory engine into a D3.

Br in Law has been quoted to remove engine, fit new complete engine from MB ex Germany (two months freight)... wait for it....

$38-40,000 [bawl]

Makes a (roughly) $20-25k D3/4 engine replacement seem quite reasonable....

He told them to go ahead and get it ordered.

[scarry]

That Sprinter van must be worth a good few $ second hand,or it wouldn't be viable to repair at that cost?

A 2.1L engine seems very small for such a large van.

In 45 yrs of doing millions of k's in loaded service vans i have never had an engine issue.

[Tombie]

That Sprinter van must be worth a good few $ second hand,or it wouldn't be viable to repair at that cost?

A 2.1L engine seems very small for such a large van.

In 45 yrs of doing millions of k's in loaded service vans i have never had an engine issue.

I’d say viability depends on how happy they are with the set up.

Sometimes it’s not about the resale :)

[eddy]

Shop around a bit MERCEDES SPRINTER ENGINE DIESEL, 2.1, TURBO, EURO 5, NCV3, 651.955 CODE, W/ OIL | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165917114756?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110 018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26as c%3D20200818141841%26meid%3D9c7c6d95eadc479697f6d8 92da45c757%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd %3D223420414498%26itm%3D165917114756%26pmt%3D1%26n oa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedCompV5WithH ighAdFeeWithKnnRecallV1PostRankerMode1%26brand%3DM ercedes-Benz&_trksid=p2047675.c101110.m1982&amdata=cksum%3A1659171147569c7c6d95eadc479697f6d89 2da45c757%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABIIV9ES4AC9wRlUxW2PV95hZA McvtJjFOFsRPbeYsQfoEmtJCyp%252BBXILvLa5tE%252BEcLa sh7dx%252BLsK7dypvrreEmBXpFaPRZ7DRd3UDJt8zeyX0ihlN %252Byd%252F5LHmn8zr5yLpzpIlP8f5yniUyeL8EDpMPJPkIE K5dN81LxffsZgsv5K94EEZVfQkDKZN4LmDGE%252BhNyxoZC1h htiRWq2m9eiW0s%252B2%252FR4aA8M6tWGlMExNJ0GLPGjHWC BKrjmfcMcHXzTuWpl4M0V3NmrlFu8xhvKg2uGl0S7v18NNmiG0 8Uk6B5Q16PQXOh3bKucrEnhHR%252FkKS8p8zW5GbPtd7Ih3Ad 1tmJcfbTbBxZJTLb094UK441lBZL88t9jEJ%252BtEX5w7bpHr Cw%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675)

or enquire from 602.980 and 612.981 Mercedes Sprinter 5cyl Fully reconditioned engines | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/223420414498?chn=ps&_ul=AU&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-139619-5960-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=223420414498&targetid=1741701787098&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9070514&poi=&campaignid=18278742238&mkgroupid=141565058112&rlsatarget=pla-1741701787098&abcId=9301725&merchantid=116543535&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxbefBhDfARIsAL4XLRp2zjI5TaW35bhSbs8g nxOHMhoAe7rksuEGac8VT7dMkOrcltuVVZAaAk3MEALw_wcB)
That's only from ebay.

[Tins]

Sometimes it’s not about the resale :)

That sentence explains D2s.

[scarry]

That sentence explains D2s.

And quite a few other LR model runs.[bigsmile1]

[Discodicky]

I’d say viability depends on how happy they are with the set up.

Sometimes it’s not about the resale :)

Hit the nail on the head!

It is a very well set up RV with shower/toilet etc. They paid 8K to do the auto tranny about 12 mnths ago.

Been told its worth about 10k as a wrecker. A 'new SH' RV will set them back around $60-90k if they can find a suitable one...

They figure that if they spend the money they'll know what they've got and provide comforting reliability for future mainland trips.

Its a no brainer really, and in my opinion can be likened to D3/4 situation when they do an engine.

Keep the vehicle (assuming you like it) and "amortise" your costs over several years to make the pain feel less hurtfull.

The 'new' SH vehicle you buy may cost you a small fortune in a matter of weeks/months if you are unlucky!

[DazzaTD5]

....further to this, FYI I can add more as from today.
Turns out it is a 2008 model with the Sprinter engine, 2.1 litres.

A long story short, after exhaustive searching, no engines available anywhere in Aus, either new or SH.

Some "reco" engines advertised on E-bay from overseas but of course are unknown/dubious quality, and apparently they have similar compatibility issues like when swapping a 2.7 Ford Territory engine into a D3.

Br in Law has been quoted to remove engine, fit new complete engine from MB ex Germany (two months freight)... wait for it....

$38-40,000 [bawl]

Makes a (roughly) $20-25k D3/4 engine replacement seem quite reasonable....

He told them to go ahead and get it ordered.

so as a comparison...
2008 merc ****ter, new engine available and fitted $40K
2016 D4, no new engines available, when they were quotes $50K

[Discodicky]

so as a comparison...
2008 merc ****ter, new engine available and fitted $40K
2016 D4, no new engines available, when they were quotes $50K


What was the breakup Parts & labour of the $50k?
I was hearing/reading middle 20's.

Supports my suggestion of re-building the engine and using existing fuel pump, turbos etc.
Why pay for items which are unnecessary (at say, 100-200,000 klms) ?

[DazzaTD5]

What was the breakup Parts & labour of the $50k?
I was hearing/reading middle 20's.

Supports my suggestion of re-building the engine and using existing fuel pump, turbos etc.
Why pay for items which are unnecessary (at say, 100-200,000 klms) ?

$25K is a typical used engine swap on a 3.0

My point really was...
An old merc van from 2008 you can still get a new engine. Like so many others ford transit, rangers, toyota hilux new engines are still available.
But a D4 from only 2016 you can't get a new engine.

[discomatt69]

Which is a disgrace, I bought a new short crate engine in 2014 , 4.6 V8 to put in my Disco 1
It is insane you can’t get a 3l , I am still hopeful the engine from the new Ranger/Everest is an option

[ATH]

$25K is a typical used engine swap on a 3.0

My point really was...
An old merc van from 2008 you can still get a new engine. Like so many others ford transit, rangers, toyota hilux new engines are still available.
But a D4 from only 2016 you can't get a new engine.

And that's the very reason I'm buying a Tojo Prado or maybe something else. Plus just recently I saw a thread where someone was quoted 5K for a new electronic oil sender thing! Surely that can't be right? Please tell me it isn't. :)
I've never understood apart from LR (Ford?) engineers loving electronic fancy bits, why an ordinary old fashioned dip stick was got rid of and this replaced it. Nothing dirty about checking oil with one and at least you could see if the oil change you'd paid for had been done when the stealer had had their hands on it. :)
Not that I'd let them touch my vehicle unless it was a warranty job so I didn't worry about that anyway.
AlanH.

[Tins]

And that's the very reason I'm buying a Tojo Prado or maybe something else. Plus just recently I saw a thread where someone was quoted 5K for a new electronic oil sender thing! Surely that can't be right? Please tell me it isn't. :)

It is. The cost is in the fact that half the car needs to be dismantled in order to change it. And I agree, checking the oil is no hazard if you are halfway carefull.* I still curse Ford for removing the dipstick from the autos in the EL Falcon!


Not that I'd let them touch my vehicle unless it was a warranty job so I didn't worry about that anyway.
AlanH.

That going to remain the case with Toyota's fixed price servicing?

(* Stupid red line. I don't care how the Yanks spell it. :soapbox:)

[ChookD2]

(* Stupid red line. I don't care how the Yanks spell it. :soapbox:)

Nothing to do with Yanks. It only has one L, unless it is "carefully", so be careful.

[Tins]

Nothing to do with Yanks. It only has one L, unless it is "carefully", so be careful.

All the 'full words had two Ls when I went to school, and all the old ( pre maybe 1970 ) books I have ( British published ) spell that way. Carefull is another way of saying full of care, just as beautifull is another way of saying full of beauty. It may be old fashioned, but I prefer it.

EDIT. BTW, which country is responsible for the spell checker used by your browser?

[ChookD2]

All the 'full words had two Ls when I went to school, and all the old ( pre maybe 1970 ) books I have ( British published ) spell that way. Carefull is another way of saying full of care, just as beautifull is another way of saying full of beauty. It may be old fashioned, but I prefer it.

My schooling was late 60s and 70s, always one L when ending with full, e.g. playful, hopeful, etc. Doesn't matter really. I still spell programme the correct way. [biggrin]

edit: Mine is set to English (Australia).

[Tins]

My schooling was late 60s and 70s, always one L when ending with full, e.g. playful, hopeful, etc. Doesn't matter really. I still spell programme the correct way. [biggrin]

edit: Mine is set to English (Australia).

I was 10 years earlier, but I guess it depends on the school. Programme is an interesting one, as both spellings are accepted, perhaps as the longer version has a formal connotation in the US, where program is far more common. Nobody in Silicon(e) Valley programmes a computer...
I think we should be gracefull and agree to differ [bigsmile1]

[Tins]

Last from me on this, at least in this engine related thread. I have a collection of books by Terry Pratchett, all of which, bar one, are "Not for sale in the USA or Canada". The one that was destined for US publication has all the spelling edited for that market.

[scarry]

But a D4 from only 2016 you can't get a new engine.

Maybe supply cannot keep up with the demand?
Other countries are probably getting them but not Aus?

I would go a new engine anyday,even if it was a few $ more than a rebuild.

FWIW,1-VD,crate engine,off the shelf,$25K,fitted approximately,a rebuild is not really viable.

[DazzaTD5]

Maybe supply cannot keep up with the demand?
Other countries are probably getting them but not Aus?

I would go a new engine anyday,even if it was a few $ more than a rebuild.

FWIW,1-VD,crate engine,off the shelf,$25K,fitted approximately,a rebuild is not really viable.

No, they stopped building the 3.0l engines somewhere round the end or so of the D4. The Ford engine plant in the U.K was converted back to a body pressing plant.
I'm sure I and others have posted this info in great depth some time ago.

[scarry]

No, they stopped building the 3.0l engines somewhere round the end or so of the D4. The Ford engine plant in the U.K was converted back to a body pressing plant.
I'm sure I and others have posted this info in great depth some time ago.

Yet they were used in D5 for quite a few years,some may still be under warranty?

[DazzaTD5]

Yet they were used in D5 for quite a few years,some may still be under warranty?

Yes indeed...

[Discodicky]

Maybe supply cannot keep up with the demand?
Other countries are probably getting them but not Aus?

I would go a new engine anyday,even if it was a few $ more than a rebuild.

FWIW,1-VD,crate engine,off the shelf,$25K,fitted approximately,a rebuild is not really viable.

Does that engine come with alternator/starter/fuel pump etc etc for the price?

New 3.0 engines ARE definitely available in the UK, I got a Rellie of mine to check, so presumably they are also available in Aus.

I wonder if a new engine is available for my MY2000 Hilux 3.0 diesel? Not that I need one yet, done 560,000 and still going well.

[scarry]

Does that engine come with alternator/starter/fuel pump etc etc for the price?

No,and as they are often high K's,other gear is often changed,if it hasn't already been done, at extra cost,Turbos,water pumps,Rad,starter,etc.
They come with new injectors.

As for the Hilux,don't worry,it is unbreakable:Rolling:

[DazzaTD5]

if you do the part number search, go round in circles you end up with the last part number of:LR063285 Engine - Stripped. it will be listed as: new, oem, remanufactured, genuine.

*its a re-manufactured engine (whatever that really means) buy it from Land Rover or anyone else you will see the engine number is re-stamped.
*As I said before, the Ford engine plant stopped being an engine plant many years ago.
*and for at least 2 or 3 years the above part number has been out of stock.

[loanrangie]

if you do the part number search, go round in circles you end up with the last part number of:LR063285 Engine - Stripped. it will be listed as: new, oem, remanufactured, genuine.

*its a re-manufactured engine (whatever that really means) buy it from Land Rover or anyone else you will see the engine number is re-stamped.
*As I said before, the Ford engine plant stopped being an engine plant many years ago.
*and for at least 2 or 3 years the above part number has been out of stock.

I wonder where the ranger 3.0 is made, Thailand as well or maybe Mexico where the 4.4 TDV8 is made ?

[DazzaTD5]

I wonder where the ranger 3.0 is made, Thailand as well or maybe Mexico where the 4.4 TDV8 is made ?

I believe it's made in the U.S

[Tins]

I believe it's made in the U.S

Lima. No, not Peru. Lima Ohio.

[DiscoDB]

The 3.0 for the new Ranger will be built in South Africa at the Struandale engine plant.

Link (https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/new-ford-rangers-v6-diesel-engine-to-be-built-in-south-africa-3f6bbc6d-5fa4-4708-84ab-b70c376b5e8d)

[Tins]

The 3.0 for the new Ranger will be built in South Africa at the Struandale engine plant.

Link (https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/new-ford-rangers-v6-diesel-engine-to-be-built-in-south-africa-3f6bbc6d-5fa4-4708-84ab-b70c376b5e8d)

Is that exclusively? I read it was, well, where I said.

[ATH]

It is. The cost is in the fact that half the car needs to be dismantled in order to change it. And I agree, checking the oil is no hazard if you are halfway carefull.* I still curse Ford for removing the dipstick from the autos in the EL Falcon!



That going to remain the case with Toyota's fixed price servicing?


Actually, I'm probably/maybe going for a Prado purely because our previous 120 series was a pretty good and reliable vehicle. However, I'm no great lover of Tojo and would much rather keep the Disco, but some things I read give me the absolute ****s.
I do not want to flog it for something else, LR or Jap, as it's a great drive and apart from that bloody EPB mutter mutter... but crap engineering (crankshaft bearing shells with no lugs) or this bloody electronic oil reader instead of a dip stick or that bloody mutter mutter EPB give me the whoops. :)
Now we're down to just one vehicle as the Cook doesn't drive now it will be more than just inconvenient if the worst happens like the failure of various fancy gimmicks beloved by whoever designed the motor.
AlanH.

[Tins]

Actually, I'm probably/maybe going for a Prado purely because our previous 120 series was a pretty good and reliable vehicle. However, I'm no great lover of Tojo and would much rather keep the Disco, but some things I read give me the absolute ****s.
I do not want to flog it for something else, LR or Jap, as it's a great drive and apart from that bloody EPB mutter mutter... but crap engineering (crankshaft bearing shells with no lugs) or this bloody electronic oil reader instead of a dip stick or that bloody mutter mutter EPB give me the whoops. :)
Now we're down to just one vehicle as the Cook doesn't drive now it will be more than just inconvenient if the worst happens like the failure of various fancy gimmicks beloved by whoever designed the motor.
AlanH.

I posted elsewhere a while back that I seriously considered one. I have never driven a 4WD that comes even close. That good bloke Mario warned me off them, and I'm glad he did. If ever there was a lottery I was going to win it would be first prize in the broken crankshaft sweep. Probably halfway up the CSR... And yeah, what the hell is wrong with a mutter mutter lever? Or a dipstick for that matter.

[DiscoDB]

Is that exclusively? I read it was, well, where I said.

Not sure - don’t believe the US will get the diesel - only the petrol engines. So sounds like the South African plant will produce the diesels.

[PerthDisco]

All the reasons why a 2.7D is a keeper.

[Tins]

Not sure - don’t believe the US will get the diesel - only the petrol engines.

Der, silly me. Of course.

[discomatt69]

I fail to understand why people complain about the electric hand brake.
keep it clean and correctly adjusted and they don’t fail, 10 years old, multiple off road trips, driven in all conditions now well over 100,000km and not one issue
I guess we could all have hand brakes like Land Cruiser’s where you need to carry wheel chocks

[loanrangie]

I fail to understand why people complain about the electric hand brake.
keep it clean and correctly adjusted and they don’t fail, 10 years old, multiple off road trips, driven in all conditions now well over 100,000km and not one issue
I guess we could all have hand brakes like Land Cruiser’s where you need to carry wheel chocksThe Hilux handbrake, a brick [emoji1].

[SimmAus]

A few things every D4 owner should get tattooed somewhere:

1) I will change the oil and oil filter every 10k kms
2) at the same time I’ll adjust the EPB
3) I’ll have a code reader available to use.

Everything else is in the same lottery of failure as every other vehicle on the planet.

[ozscott]

I fail to understand why people complain about the electric hand brake.
keep it clean and correctly adjusted and they don’t fail, 10 years old, multiple off road trips, driven in all conditions now well over 100,000km and not one issue
I guess we could all have hand brakes like Land Cruiser’s where you need to carry wheel chocksManufacturers can make reliable 'hand' brakes. The D1 and D2 is excellent as is my Japanese 4wd. But yes the older Toyotas were not good for there handbrakes. I like a handbrake. Cheers

[Tombie]

And that's the very reason I'm buying a Tojo Prado or maybe something else. Plus just recently I saw a thread where someone was quoted 5K for a new electronic oil sender thing! Surely that can't be right? Please tell me it isn't. :)
I've never understood apart from LR (Ford?) engineers loving electronic fancy bits, why an ordinary old fashioned dip stick was got rid of and this replaced it. Nothing dirty about checking oil with one and at least you could see if the oil change you'd paid for had been done when the stealer had had their hands on it. :)
Not that I'd let them touch my vehicle unless it was a warranty job so I didn't worry about that anyway.
AlanH.

Mate. It’s $12k for the fuel injection system if the common rail on a Toyota gets contaminated fuel through it.

All modern engines are big $$$ if something happens.

[ozscott]

A few things every D4 owner should get tattooed somewhere:

1) I will change the oil and oil filter every 10k kms
2) at the same time I’ll adjust the EPB
3) I’ll have a code reader available to use.

Everything else is in the same lottery of failure as every other vehicle on the planet.Mate I have to say that some other manufacturers handle it so much better when there is a known engine weakness. My son is looking at MN Tritons. I told him about the 2.5 litre having a known porosity issue. Interestingly I know of many who have had brand new engines fitted from Mitsubishi even where there MN years out of warranty, goes kaput at over 300 000klm no questions asked and at zero cost to the owner (many times not even the original owner). Now how Mitsubishi can do that, but for a car whose retail price was often many times that of a Triton, Land Rover can't, has me buggered. Anyway, we buy them nonetheless [emoji1787][emoji28]. Cheers

[ozscott]

Mate. It’s $12k for the fuel injection system if the common rail on a Toyota gets contaminated fuel through it.

All modern engines are big $$$ if something happens.That's the truth. If the new motors tech got them to twice or three times the miles as older simpler motors it would be worth it. But even with the diesel savings it simply isn't. Cheers

[ATH]

Mate. It’s $12k for the fuel injection system if the common rail on a Toyota gets contaminated fuel through it.

All modern engines are big $$$ if something happens.

Yes I know thankyou Tombie, I'm not going into this blindly. But the fact remains you can still get engines for them and other makes years later and I won't be keeping it after warranty anyway. Plus mostly, I won't say all as I don't know, they still have dipsticks not some bloody silly electronic 5K thing some idiot designer thinks is an improvement.
I've kept the D4 longer than I normally would any vehicle because it's been so good, but will it continue being so? The thought of the turmoil of having no car/buying something for everyday use for months is too much for me.
AlanH.

[scarry]

Yes I know thankyou Tombie, I'm not going into this blindly. But the fact remains you can still get engines for them and other makes years later and I won't be keeping it after warranty anyway. Plus mostly, I won't say all as I don't know, they still have dipsticks not some bloody silly electronic 5K thing some idiot designer thinks is an improvement.
I've kept the D4 longer than I normally would any vehicle because it's been so good, but will it continue being so? The thought of the turmoil of having no car/buying something for everyday use for months is too much for me.
AlanH.

Tojo have a pretty good fuel filter set up with idiot lights for water and pressure drop across the filter.
The main thing is once the light comes up,dont ignore it,which many do.

[rdenyer]

I wonder where the ranger 3.0 is made, Thailand as well or maybe Mexico where the 4.4 TDV8 is made ?
So the new Ford Ranger and Everest are available with a Lion V6 Diesel.
Ford have also sell F-150 trucks in the USA with a 3.0 Lion motor.

Why does the Land Rover variant still have so many failures ?

This YouTube from LR Time was very interesting Worst Diesel Engine on the Planet ? Ford Lion V6 - Land Rover TDV6 SDV6 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/v3moekbW6z8)


Yes I am one of those diehard Discovery owners who lost and engine in their 2005 D3 2.7 (owned from new) at 84,000Km - (cost me $14K and 3 months of “discussions” with LR) spun bearing.
Still have it, but have a Ford Everest as a daily driver. but I change the oil & filter every 10K and run 10W/40.
Just spent heaps on it having all the air struts renewed , belts, oil pump and auto serviced
Interestingly - the 18 year old D3 still feels like a better driving car.
The D3/D4 definielty get in to your blood, and they can get you to many places heaverly modified 4WDs struggle, but unfortuneatley as with all modern cars, when they fail its expensive !

[ATH]

I had yet another look at a D300 today and liked the look of that little dipstick beside the engine. :) Still very undecided, huge cost difference between that and a Prado but that's not a problem. Bit cramped for fridge space etc in the back.
Shall I, shan't I? Dunno.
AlanH.

[Tins]

I had yet another look at a D300 today and liked the look of that little dipstick beside the engine. :) Still very undecided, huge cost difference between that and a Prado but that's not a problem. Bit cramped for fridge space etc in the back.
Shall I, shan't I? Dunno.
AlanH.

DIL just got a Y62. Very impressive lump of a thing. If you don't have to have a diesel they're worth a look. And what a noise! Well, it was a demo and the dealer fitted a sporty exhaust. She paid for a woodgrain delete though.. Don't blame her.

[ATH]

Wots a Y62?
AlanH.

[PerthDisco]

So the new Ford Ranger and Everest are available with a Lion V6 Diesel.
Ford have also sell F-150 trucks in the USA with a 3.0 Lion motor.

Why does the Land Rover variant still have so many failures ?

This YouTube from LR Time was very interesting Worst Diesel Engine on the Planet ? Ford Lion V6 - Land Rover TDV6 SDV6 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/v3moekbW6z8)


Yes I am one of those diehard Discovery owners who lost and engine in their 2005 D3 2.7 (owned from new) at 84,000Km - (cost me $14K and 3 months of “discussions” with LR) spun bearing.
Still have it, but have a Ford Everest as a daily driver. but I change the oil & filter every 10K and run 10W/40.
Just spent heaps on it having all the air struts renewed , belts, oil pump and auto serviced
Interestingly - the 18 year old D3 still feels like a better driving car.
The D3/D4 definielty get in to your blood, and they can get you to many places heaverly modified 4WDs struggle, but unfortuneatley as with all modern cars, when they fail its expensive !

So surely Ford will sell replacement engines for these adaptable to the LR by swapping accessories?

[Tins]

Wots a Y62?
AlanH.

P'troll.

[discomatt69]

DIL just got a Y62. Very impressive lump of a thing. If you don't have to have a diesel they're worth a look. And what a noise! Well, it was a demo and the dealer fitted a sporty exhaust. She paid for a woodgrain delete though.. Don't blame her.
I have been thinking na couple of Y62 and a mate in Darwin had one, excellent car overall but only available in the petrol V8 is a deal breaker for many, yep excellent sound

[ATH]

I might just check the Patrol out as it would certainly do the job and as I don't intend going too remote, being petrol is not a problem.
There's a girl up the local pub has a new one.... wonder if she'll take me for a ride? :)
AlanH.

[gavinwibrow]

I might just check the Patrol out as it would certainly do the job and as I don't intend going too remote, being petrol is not a problem.
There's a girl up the local pub has a new one.... wonder if she'll take me for a ride? :)
AlanH.


Some would say most women will take you for a ride (and some men?)

[Odysseyman]

I might just check the Patrol out as it would certainly do the job and as I don't intend going too remote, being petrol is not a problem.
There's a girl up the local pub has a new one.... wonder if she'll take me for a ride? :)
AlanH.

have you considered a Pajero Sport. Mitsubishi stand out from the crowd with their after sales service, and their 4WD system. Runs rings around a lot of others in my opinion.

David

[Discodicky]

The Hilux handbrake, a brick [emoji1].

Yep, I've fitted new rear shoes and h/brake cables (all Genuine Toyota parts) on my Hilux but still won't hold with sufficient grab to make one feel comfortable.

182,000 klms on the D4 (original owner did 101,000) and never had any probs with the electric park brake... it even holds really well.

If you are having a problem with a D3/4 park brake then you are not maintaining it correctly, ie, adjusting it.

[Discodicky]

I might just check the Patrol out as it would certainly do the job and as I don't intend going too remote, being petrol is not a problem.
There's a girl up the local pub has a new one.... wonder if she'll take me for a ride? :)
AlanH.

They are indestructable and better value for money than their opposition but a downer is that they need to run 98 octane fuel (I think).

[ATH]

I used to like the original Paj but not the sport as it's horrid... too short etc. I went to the stealers yesterday to do yet another look at the D300 and got told that if I ordered right away they had a 'slot' for 4 new vehicles in around 5 months or so. Sounded like salesman bull crap to me.
I quite like bits about it, it's got a dipstick, but doesn't seem that roomy in the back. Buggered if I know how they think it's worth north of 130 grand though. So off I went to the Tojo bloke today and no good news there either. Still around at least 9 months to delivery and maybe longer. :(
So I went and bought a new whipper snipper and had a few beers as well.
AlanH.

PS. Yes I've been taken for a few rides and they were very enjoyable.... :)

PPS. Keeping the Disco is looking more likely as each day passes. :) And in the meantime it'll still be over serviced and have stuff done as necessary.

[ATH]

[QUOTE=
If you are having a problem with a D3/4 park brake then you are not maintaining it correctly, ie, adjusting it.[/QUOTE]

I leave the adjusting to the indie, I just can't see it as worthwhile or any better than a proper handbrake. Or that bloody electronic dipstick... mutter mutter. :)
AlanH.

[discomatt69]

Check the new Pajero fuel tank size b core considering them , the word thimble comes to mind…
I will be hanging onto my D4 fuel r a few years longer than planned due to the fact there is nothing on the market that has proved worthy of my hard earned

[ytt105]

Re electric handbrake.
The reason everyone is going to them is that they become a true emergency brake.
If the driver has a heart attack, or similar, the passenger can press the button and the car will operate the ABS in a controlled emergency stop and then put on the park brake when fully stopped.
That's good to know when you get to my age!

[BradC]

That's good to know when you get to my age!

And so goes the old joke : "I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming in terror like the other occupants of his car".

I've given this a lot of thought, particularly after discovering >50ml of oil in my brake booster. I'm comforted that in the event of a catastrophic brake failure, down hill with the van on the back I can pull the lever and the car will do it's damnedest to get us to stop. Every other vehicle I've owned has a handle that operates small drums on the rear axle, and they have a hard enough time slowing the car in an emergency, let alone with an extra load.

[DiscoJeffster]

And so goes the old joke : "I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming in terror like the other occupants of his car".

I've given this a lot of thought, particularly after discovering >50ml of oil in my brake booster. I'm comforted that in the event of a catastrophic brake failure, down hill with the van on the back I can pull the lever and the car will do it's damnedest to get us to stop. Every other vehicle I've owned has a handle that operates small drums on the rear axle, and they have a hard enough time slowing the car in an emergency, let alone with an extra load.

Yes, the emergency max application of ABS braking with the handbrake button works very well, but I’d not thought about how it would work better than the foot application, but on reflection, if the booster fails, it definitely would. Nice to remember

[veebs]

I've used the handbrake button in a controlled environment, on gravel no less, during a GOE training session. Pulled the car up from 80km/hr pretty damn quick, whilst keeping it in a straight line (ie, stability control is used). Whilst it wasn't tested, it will also actuate trailer brakes i'm told. All in all I was pretty impressed.

[DiscoJeffster]

I've used the handbrake button in a controlled environment, on gravel no less, during a GOE training session. Pulled the car up from 80km/hr pretty damn quick, whilst keeping it in a straight line (ie, stability control is used). Whilst it wasn't tested, it will also actuate trailer brakes i'm told. All in all I was pretty impressed.

Makes sense as I was testing out HDC and whether it applied the brakes and it did, hence it applied the trailer brakes, therefore ABS would too

[Discodicky]

OMG, just realised we've strayed miles (or should it be klms?) from the original post.... I'm surprised that someone is not complaining! [bigrolf]:bat::bat:

[veebs]

Apologies to future forum readers who just want to know more about the engine failure!

[Graeme]

...if the booster fails...Even more useful if the master cylinder was to fail.

[DiscoDB]

OMG, just realised we've strayed miles (or should it be klms?) from the original post.... I'm surprised that someone is not complaining! [bigrolf]:bat::bat:

In my mind - any thread that gets past 100 posts if free to go anywhere it wants…….I am sure the OP is happy in this case. [emoji3]

[ATH]

I'd completely forgotten about the emergency stop function of the EPB. I got the Cook to try it one day and it worked well although that was on a straight run and bitumen.
At least it's got that going for it. :)
AlanH.

[DazzaTD5]

Not sure - don’t believe the US will get the diesel - only the petrol engines. So sounds like the South African plant will produce the diesels.

Ford have been using the 3.0 diesel in the U.S for quite a few years but are going to axe it in the U.S market as its not a popular diesel (due to being a relatively small capacity).

[DiscoDB]

Ford have been using the 3.0 diesel in the U.S for quite a few years but are going to axe it in the U.S market as its not a popular diesel (due to being a relatively small capacity).

They stopped offering the 3.0 diesel in the F-150 back in mid-2021. All the 3.0 diesels in the F-150 would have been manufactured in the UK plant before they stopped producing.

As you point out was due to low sales - very few in the US wanted a small diesel in a big truck.

Sounds like they will miss out on the 3.0 diesel in the New Ranger as well where it is obviously a much better match.

Ironically Ford is going to try and market the F-150 with only the 3.5L V6 petrol on offer here in Australia. Can’t see that being too successful either. The 3.0 diesel powerstroke would be a much better choice here in Australia if they aren’t going to offer the V8’s.

[RANDLOVER]

I just had a thought as to why crankshaft failures are not so common in other vehicles with these engines, which could be the way they are plumbed up, using the blanked off port on top for something? As my recently purchased FOMOCO/Jag/LR/Peugeot/Citroen/PSA etc. oil pump for my D3 was leaking oil from the supposedly blanked off port on top, which led to a lot of wasted time and money for my mechanic and I, chasing what looked like a crankshaft seal leak. Unable to claim warranty on that, as no faulty part to return and they don't pay labour either, grrrrr.

[PerthDisco]

Log in to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3546517875667767/'mibextid=6ojiHh)

Looks like a 3.0 donk for sale here

806 - Land Rover Range 2013 autobigraphy sport black wrecking

[haydent]

Reposting this from reddit, D5 TDV6 goes pop:


Was driving my car normally when I heard ticking and a big clunk sound I immediately pulled over. Got the car towed to the dealership they said the bottom of the engine has catastrophic damage and quoted a repair of $47,000 to replace the engine
The car is 2017 model and has done 120,000 km only used for long drives over 100km trips I brought it from the dealership and have full service history

Would it be covered under Australian consumer law since cars shouldn’t just have a major engine damage at 120,000 km specially when you pay over $130,000 for a new car like that






Reddit - Dive into anything (https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/1fiv23r/catastrophic_engine_failure_on_land_rover/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

[Melbourne Park]

Simon Cotter on Twitter been posting many interesting updates on LC300

https://twitter.com/simoncotter62/status/1620708122309566465's=12

Loose rubber looks like early production issue IMO. Plastic covers not fitting - yes poor show but for the battery a minor issue.

The "hot V" - yes turbos are hot. I recall pulling the bonnet at night on a SAAB Turbo 1980 and the engine bay was bright red from the very bright red turbo - the whole metal was literally red hot. And Bright Red. IMO: that heat is not from being inside the V. The heat is from the exhaust gases which heated the turbo casings. The wear issue is what is happening to the turbo bearings after the engine is turned off. I presume Toyota have a handle on that issue.

Now those 300s now cost up to 160,000. But the base one GX costs 108,000. Same engine and gearbox, pretty much the same body. IMO the base model is good value if the engine is good. But my Indy LR guy says stay clear of the 300.

The negative on D4s for me, is remote travelling breakdowns. Or "serviceability". I wish there were crate motors for them as well. Since there are not, I will not buy a Defender or any Land Rover, despite their excellence. Because they are not supporting their brand with basic parts, which drives down resale values significantly. Without factory support for the long term reputation of their product, why would I buy another and suffer huge depreciation due to lack of expected support? That lack of ethos that logically runs right through every department in the company, from top to bottom.

[scarry]

Now those 300s now cost up to 160,000. But the base one GX costs 108,000. Same engine and gearbox, pretty much the same body. IMO the base model is good value if the engine is good. But my Indy LR guy says stay clear of the 300.
.

The GXL updated model is the best value,by quite a margin,not yet here though.

An Indy LR guy says stay away from a Tojo?
No surprise there,he has probably had many through his workshop.......[tonguewink]

[Melbourne Park]

The GXL updated model is the best value,by quite a margin,not yet here though.

An Indy LR guy says stay away from a Tojo?
No surprise there,he has probably had many through his workshop.......[tonguewink]

He stays in touch with what is going on. the 200 4.5 V8 had lots of issues when I bought my Disco ... Toyota eventually resolved most of them. But I'm towing, so that puts things in a different light.

As far as 300s go, there isn't much choice is there? Patrol is being replaced, from my reading of the Defender it has severe limitations and is small for me, the Grenadier is great IMO but not for the city ... the Everest which is smaller but seems capable except for the quality issue and its gearbox. I wonder if the engine is fixed? So no wonder the 300 as so expensive - Toyota can charge a very high price because the competition is weak, and they can rely on reputation, which IMO is falling. The revised models do cost more though ... and IMO the VX is far more city capable than the GXL, because its surround cameras will allow any driver to park it in an underground supermarket car park plus some maybe unnecessary luxuries. But to pay $15k more for surround cameras which all the Prados have, makes me think rip off.

There is lots of talk about issues with the new motor. Dust won't kill the car, but they leak badly via the rear door. That would really annoy me as the car must have been sorted for Australia, surely. Sequential turbo issues, various software CU updates trying to resolve those issues. The oil issues too. In South Africa some owners have got refunds. Toyota stopped production of the 300 series too. Evidently due to failing to properly test the exhaust ... same issue happened with the Hilux and Prado here, Toyota found guilty for a large number of vehicles. Eventually Toyota will sort it out IMO. Hopefully for you the update version will have more issues resolved, so good luck. I don't know what resources my Indy has, but he's well connected IMO. Realistically though, towing over the vehicle's weight is dangerous, and the 300 is lighter. When one adds GVM capacity via spring upgrades, then you loose your motor and drivetrain warranty. Most do that when towing, but it's not worth it IMO. Which really means Grenadier, 79 series, or a USA made big ute. Or Iveco or another type of 4WD "light" truck, all which feature reliability but gutless diesel motors which may be 5 litres but develop 340 Nm torque ...

[haydent]

From a towing point of view its your rear axle limit that you'll hit first most likely with a sedan 4x4.

300 series has one of the best at a bit over 1900kg

the everest is not great in this domain, similar to a range rover at appx 1700kg (both less than discos, particularly with 7 seats)

the new defender is somewhere in between 1800

but the ineos has over 2100kg !