The Series III Lives!

[DiscoDave]

After clearing a blocked fuel line (at the tank), draining the fuel tank, cleaning and testing the fuel pump, replacing the fuel filter since the "fuel" in the old one stank like varnish, and dismantling and cleaning the carbi (twice), Bumpy's 2.6 Litre STARTED and RAN! :D

I was beginning to doubt it would ever happen since the Zenith carbi still looks like something you'd find on the tip, but it runs and that good enough for me for now! I didn't run it for long because the oil was 5 years old and I doubt if any coolant was circulating so turned it off after a couple of minutes. (Yes, I have changed the oil now.)

My plan is to remove and clean/replace the thermostat - since it's full of white goop :confused:, then run the engine for a while with some Nulon solvent added to the radiator and then flush the coolant system. Then I should be able to run the engine normally to tune it, right?

To the technical questions:
The carbi has been thoroughly messed with, as have the points, the plugs, the timing adjustment, and the vacuum advance hoses/pipes look really knackered and the choke cable doesn't seem to be capable of moving the choke through it's full movement. There are also various hoses flapping around that went to the "Adsorption Canister". Where should I start to get the engine running properly?
I have a timing light and a manual to tell me details but would appreciate any hints on what to work on, in what order. :)

[Grizzly_Adams]

Sorry mate but can't answer any of your technical questions, however after just having my SII start puttering a week ago I just thought I'd offer my congratulations :cool:

Great feeilng aint it? :D

[DiscoDave]

Sorry mate but can't answer any of your technical questions, however after just having my SII start puttering a week ago I just thought I'd offer my congratulations :cool:

Great feeilng aint it? :D

Too right! Thanks Grizzly. :D

[LandyAndy]

Well done DiscoDave.
Did you put a carby kit in??? Fairly important as the diagpram splits causing it to run really POO,using oil in the dashpot will confirm its split.
A kit shouldnt cost much.
I had an immaculate 2A traytop with the landy 6,althouh I sold it for heaps more than I paid I WISH I STILL HAD THE OLD GIRL!!!!
Its fairly important to keep the valve clearances done on the 6,it runs much better and uses less fuel if you keep them in check.And remember,the inlet valves are in the head and the exhaust are in the block(2 adjustment areas).Its an easy job just follow the manual,making sure the engine is hot first,ACTUALLY READ THE MANUAL,something at the back of my head is saying one set is done hot the other cold,ITS BEEN A FAIR WHILE:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Goodluck,keep us informed.
Andrew

[UncleHo]

G'day DiscoDave :)

Has your Series 111 "Bumpy" got a 2.6 Litre 6 Cylinder Motor ? If so it would possibly have one of three types of Carb, "Stromberg 175 CD" S.U. of similar type or the Zenith 175CD2S type,the Stromberg and Zenith both have a Diaphragm in them, and also require "Light Oil" in the "Dash Pot" that is where the little plastic knob is on the top of the Carb, it has to have at least enough oil to cover the little piston below the cap, somebody with knowledge of Carby model Rangies will have a better knowledge than me, Ignition Points: set at 0.014-0.016 thous of an inch(35-40 mm) Spark Plugs: 29-32 Thous, Ignition Timing: I can't find a quick reference for that but it is similar to the 4 cylinder with Anti Pollution #@**^$ on it that was 3 degrees AFTER top Dead Centre, or start off at TDC. and work 3 Degees either way, This is done with the Vacuum line DISCONNECTED, if you have not got access to a Timing Light, you can Static set it up by lining up the timing mark,and with the No 1 piston on ign stroke,and timing mark at TDC, (rotor almost at No1 plug lead) with the ign ON loosen and slightly move the Distributor so that the points JUST open, that will be pretty well TDC without a timing light.

Hope that is of some help :)

[DiscoDave]

LandyAndy:
I did put a carbi-kit in just before it was "abandoned" so yes diaphragm is good although getting the lip to key in with the cut out in the carbi body was a bit hit-and-miss. How does the oil confirm a split?
Thanks for the tip on the valve clearances, I will check them.:) Thanks also for explaining why it only has one valve per cylinder. :lol:
I will try to do better at RTFM.:p

UncleHo:
Yep, Bumpy has a 2.6L 6cyl with a Zenith carbi with the honking big piston which pulls the needle valve up. :cool: Thanks for the data on ignition timing - I didn't know you do it with the vacuum line disconnected - that's a big help.
I DO have a timing light. My distributor has an external adjustor and I just guessed the setting (hey, it runs!). Do I use that to adjust the timing, or turn the whole dizzy, or doesn't matter which?:huh:

I really wanted to know if their was a heirarchy of adjustments, i.e. there is no point in setting adjustment C until adjustment G is right. And whether the disconnected anti-pollution stuff will have any effect on the timing.That sort of thing.

Thanks both for your replies.:D

[4bee]

I have read that the six's were a bit notorious for burning the exhaust valves out.

One reason given was that the gap of 12 thou. was too tight & 15 thou. was more like it & also run it a bit lean.

Make of that what you will.

[UncleHo]

G'day DiscoDave.
Yes, you have to set "A" before "B" as that then gives you best results;)

No1 Clean and adjust Spark Plugs. & check lead condition.

No 2 Clean and adjust Points, 0.014-0.016.

No3 Check that the Vacc Advance mechanism is working, with Dist cap off, Suck on vacc hose at carby end, a piece of plastic tube added to the Vacc hose makes it easier and less unpleasent tasting :o while sucking you should see the points plate move a little, and return when you stop the points plate should return, that will indicate that the Vacc Advance unit is working OK, reconnect to Carby.

No4 With the timing light attached to No1 lead as close to the plug as possible, And Vacc tube blocked at loose end, small screw or match, start motor, observe where the mark on the front pulley is in relation to the timing pointer,and if it is Advanced or Retarded, If it is only slightly out, you can adjust it by the Knerled knob (micro adjustment) if you cannot attain it, slightly loosen the pinch clamp at the base of the Distributor, and move it slightly clockwise or anticlockwise,it only needs a few "mm" of movement, if you have an assistant with the timing light, you can do this with the motor running, ;) DO NOT FORGET to RETIGHTEN the CLAMP:confused: As I had my Dist slip out of the clamp on the 2a at 90+ Kph going to a dog trial :mad: instant NO NOISE !!!!!! then had to retime the engine by the side of the highway :rolleyes: :p


If you have removed the anti -pollution stuff, make sure that you don't have any open holes to the carb, that little bent rubber elbow comes to mind, plug it with an old bolt jammed down it, the only other tubes/holes should be the Brake booster hose (Carb base to booster), Vacc tube to Dist. that should get it running reasonably well, a cup full of KERO in 20 litres of fuel will aid in freeing up any sticky valves ;)
Bung- Tiddley.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

so.....whats the latest on this......?
have you got it purring yet...?

[DiscoDave]

Thanks for the posts everyone. :)

Well it's still a "work in progress" it seems.... running yes, purring... sometimes.
So far I have:
Cleaned plugs and set spark gaps.
Tested vacuum advance - it works but the pipe to the carbi is blocked and the rubber joiners are cracked so they are blocked off at the moment.
Set the points gap,
Flushed the radiator and (hopefully but not sure) the block.
Repaired a few broken bits.
Ran the engine and adjusted slow idle to 500rpm.
Still can't get full range on the choke cable - works smoothly but it just does not extend enough.:confused: But it started today without much choke and ran a bit smokey (obviously rich).
Adjusting carbi mixture (the big brass knob on the underside of the cardi) - manual says to lean up the mixture turn anticlockwise. Turned it so much anticlockwise (unscrewing) that fuel started to trickle out with no change in the way it ran so decided to turn the knob clockwise (screwing in) - revs increase, smoke reduces - clearly its getting leaner.
Idled for maybe 20 minutes and verified thermostat opened by top hose getting warm when temp gauge says engine is in high part of 'Normal' zone.
Hooked up the ignition timing lamp but could I get a flash of the no.1 lead? - no way! Most of the others yes but No.1 no.:mad:

Switched off and checked inlet valve clearances - all good.
Exhaust valve clearances - are you kidding?:eek: Surely I'd have to take the exhaust manifold off to get at anything? - and that looks like its rusted on for good.

Restarted and took it for a 'spin' :lol: down our driveway which is mostly flat but has a few potholes. Just as well it is flat because I have no brakes! Steering is really stiff too! Got about 70m and the motor stops. It's facing the wrong way for a jump start, the battery couldn't turn over the engine in a pink fit, so I ended up towing it back to my shed.
Left it for a while then checked the plugs - they were black and furry so I cleaned them again. Restarted and leaned up (I think) the mixture even more - seems to run quite well but there is a 'falter' in there somewhere.
Took it for another test run, this time in reverse so I can jump it if I need to. Coast to a halt, change into first to come back and before I can engage the clutch the engine falters and dies. Drove the disco down to jump start it and it started right away. Moved the disco and drove back to the shed but didn't make it as it died again. Pushed it the last 10 metres and gave up for the day. :(

The vacuum advance is not connected - could that have something to do with the engine faltering and dying? Especially as I don't know the state of the timing at present?

[4bee]

:rolleyes: Dave, just treat this as your 'Personal Development Exercise'.:D

You will look back one day & have a good laugh.:)

[djam1]

Dave
Great to see you are having fun there are a few things I think you should do.
Get a tin of carby cleaner and pull the bottom and top off of the carby clean everything thoroughly I would suspect that the choke is stuck and if you put the carby cleaner through all of the orifices you should resolve your issues with it running rich. I would also suspect the diaphragm in the top of the carby if it isn’t split yet it will be soon if the car hasn’t been driven for a long time.
Don’t go too wild with making it run leaner with the mixture adjustment on the bottom of the carby these engines were a nightmare to run 25 years ago when we had better quality fuel.
Unleaded fuel will surely be the death of this engine you can run an upper cylinder lube and drive it carefully but they are not only called an F engine because of the inlet over exhaust design.
I remember in 1983 I fully reconditioned one of these engines with stellite valves, extractors, upper cylinder lube and new everything (worth a small fortune) and it still burnt valves and blew a head gasket within 10000 ks the beauty of these engines was the fact that they could be completely shagged and still sound as though they were in good condition.
The performance when in good condition (105kmh) was adequate they will use oil and burn valves and only return 16 mpg at best.
If you are an absolute fanatic find a 3 litre version of the engine from a rover car and you will have some real fun. These were a good engine in the Rover cars but in the Land Rover they were labor intensive to keep moving.



Have fun it will surprise you what it will do usually more in the bush than the modern stuff.

[DiscoDave]

4bee - No worries, I'm laughing about it already.:lol:

djam1 - Already done the carbi cleaner stuff and the diaphragm was replaced shortly before it was left behind the shed (about 4 years ago) and is still in good nick (I've checked).
"completely shagged and still sound as though they were in good condition."
Uh oh! That would explain a lot! :eek:

How did they ever get one of these engines in a normal car? The thing's about a metre tall!

" Have fun it will surprise you what it will do usually more in the bush than the modern stuff."
Thanks, here's hoping! :)

[UncleHo]

G'day DiscoDave :)
The lack of an advance tube would certianly have an effect on the motor not responding to the throttle on acceleration, you can durry-rig a vacc hose using somr thin rubber or plastic tube, length does not overly just keep it clear of hot exhausts and linkages, just use any spark plug lead of a similar length to replace No1 lead if suspect, then you will have a good chance to set the timing.

The 2.6/3.0 litre Rover motor was fitted to the Rover 90,100,105 Sedans the old "Auntie" Rover shape before the P6 and the SD1 3500 sedans that used the Alloy V8 that saw sterling service in the Range Rover, that basic motor also saw service in the Leyland Terrier Trucks and in the Australian Designed P76 in 4.4 ltre form and REPCO also played with it out to 5 ltre.:)
Bung-Tiddley.

[LandyAndy]

Hi DiscoDave
With my old girl once performance went to poo (backfire starve for fuel)I would top up the Dashpot on the carby. I recall it hapening whilst out cruising in the bush,had no spare oil,ended up cracking the sump plug into an opened beer can to get some oil,it did the job.If within a day or so the conditions would return I would top up the oil again.If this fixed it I would order a new carb kit,it was just as cheap to buy the complete kit than the diagphram.
If the oil was full it was time to adjust the valves.
4 years for a carby kit is a LONG time for these motors,I had mine for 3 years and I was replacing that diagphram evey 6 months or so.Its the nature of the beast,valves adjusted every 6 months max.Once you get to know the old girl you will know what she wants:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Andrew

[DiscoDave]

No joy starting "Bumpy" this morning - not interested at all!
So I connected the vacuum advance with a temporary bit of hose and checked the plugs. They were badly sooted which makes me think again of rich mixture, so, wanting to do the "slow running adjustment" mixture setting as per the manual rather than by guesswork I took of the air hose and manifold to access the carbi piston. Testing to see if it was sticky I tried to raise the piston with my finger and couldn't shift it! Two fingers moved it but it got harder the further it moved.
Unscrewing the "oil cap and damper" and removing it was like extracting a Wellington boot from a mud hole. Once the damper was out the air valve/piston moved freely. I had put extra (engine) oil in the dash pot yesterday to make sure the plunger was covered. Thinking the oil was too thick, particularly on a chilly morning, I took the "air valve" out, tipped out the oil and replaced it with some "3 in 1" household oil. While there I checked the diaphragm (again) and it is flexible, rubbery and has no tears splits or holes.
Reassembled and put the "oil cap and damper" back in - against rising air pressure resistance. Moving the "air valve" is like pumping up a car tyre - the more you pump the harder it gets.
Something doesn't seem right here - any hints?

BTW - re the choke - the choke lever and butterfly on the carbi work fine, it's just if the lever has, say, 1 inch of movement, the choke cable has only half that movement.