Engine Failure on 3.0lt SDV6 help.

[AS355]

Hello all,

I'm over from the Rangie side looking for some help.

Last year I had my SDV6 engine in my RRS fail at 59k with a bearing failure and have since then been trying to have LRA / JRA come to the party with an replacement engine as I am of the opinion that 59k from this modern diesel it just not good enough and given the history I have found with these engines I believe I have a very good argument for a replacement engine.

I am looking for a bit of help here for at least 3 names of others whom have had the same issue, i.e.: early engine failure of their 3.0lt engine.
I am looking at going to LRA / JRA one more time with a list of information about their engine failures.
There is so much on the internet about their failures that it is quite unnerving just how many there has been both here and overseas.

If this last ditch effort with them fails I am looking at going to a couple of media outlets and try to apply some pressure through them as I have connections with them.

So if anyone would like to put their name up that would be of a great assistance.
This for manly the media as they like to have at least a few other people to interview.


Thanks all:
Glen

[kelvo]

Sorry to hear that.

Have you seen this thread? Jaguar Land Rover recall TDV6 engined vehicles (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/265811-jaguar-land-rover-recall-tdv6-engined-vehicles.html)

[101RRS]

You should also be looking at why Ford changed the crankshaft and other aspects of the engine for their F150 in the US - their lemon laws would kill the product if it was left as is.

I suspect but have no evidence that this crank and other mods are in the 2019/20 SDV6 Disco 5s - I have not heard of any of these having crank problems but they are relatively new.

[Discodicky]

Hello all,

I'm over from the Rangie side looking for some help.

Last year I had my SDV6 engine in my RRS fail at 59k with a bearing failure and have since then been trying to have LRA / JRA come to the party with an replacement engine as I am of the opinion that 59k from this modern diesel it just not good enough and given the history I have found with these engines I believe I have a very good argument for a replacement engine.

I am looking for a bit of help here for at least 3 names of others whom have had the same issue, i.e.: early engine failure of their 3.0lt engine.
I am looking at going to LRA / JRA one more time with a list of information about their engine failures.
There is so much on the internet about their failures that it is quite unnerving just how many there has been both here and overseas.

If this last ditch effort with them fails I am looking at going to a couple of media outlets and try to apply some pressure through them as I have connections with them.

So if anyone would like to put their name up that would be of a great assistance.
This for manly the media as they like to have at least a few other people to interview.


Thanks all:
Glen


You are probably aware of the LR Service Bulletins SSM71816 and SSM72928 regarding this problem.
Touch wood, at 140,000 klm I haven't yet had the problem.
John Connolly who writes all things motoring in The Weekend Australian, may be interested to hear of this problem as he has had plenty to say about the Mazda engine problems, and in fact may well have had strong influence in getting the ACCC involved against Mazda.
Good luck with it, LR must not be allowed to get away with this problem and should be offering strong financial assistance to affected owners.

[Mungus]

Have you looked at this thread? D4 3.0 SDV6 catastrophic failure (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/280851-d4-3-0-sdv6-catastrophic-failure.html)

There are four people in that thread including the OP who mention they have had the same failure.
Maybe message them for further info.

[AS355]

Have you looked at this thread? D4 3.0 SDV6 catastrophic failure (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/280851-d4-3-0-sdv6-catastrophic-failure.html)

There are four people in that thread including the OP who mention they have had the same failure.
Maybe message them for further info.


Thanks for the info Mungus, will have a look and see if I can find them.
Cheers
Glen

[Mungus]

Id really like to know what the actual cause/s are that lead to this failure and from that work out if there is a way to pre-empt the failure point, like monitoring bearing temps with external temp sensors, or ideally if there is a fix to eliminate the possibility of bearing failure altogether. I would body off again without hesitation if there is.

[eddy]

Go for the solid billet crankshaft now available from NWS motor services in the UK.

[101RRS]

Go for the solid billet crankshaft now available from NWS motor services in the UK.

Hmmm - I have no personal experience but if you look at comments on the UK RRS and Disco3 forums you will see that NWS is the one company in the UK NOT to get parts from as they have a worse rate of failure than the original LR product.

Garry

[eddy]

Looking further, billet crank could be made in China?
Check with Oval Autos UK they have a good reputation on the forums.

[Mungus]

Is it the crank itself that is at fault or the bearing failure that subsequently seizes the crank? I recall something about the bearings (basically shims) rotating slightly and blocking of oil delivery ports? Can anyone elaborate on this comment?

[Ferret]

Is it the crank itself that is at fault or the bearing failure that subsequently seizes the crank? I recall something about the bearings (basically shims) rotating slightly and blocking of oil delivery ports? Can anyone elaborate on this comment?

There is a Russian report on the strip down and inspection of a failed TDv6 engine. It's obviously a translation from Russian and a poor translation at that but seems to place the primary blame for failure on the compact design of the crank shaft which sets up conditions for bearing rotation.

Anyway you can read it yourself, draw your own judgments. Hard to be sure what it means in some places because of the poor translation.

Objectives of the study: determine the cause of motor vehicle disadvantages LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 4 (https://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/23856/D4_russian_doc.pdf)


The compactness of the power unit has played a key role in the breakdown statistics of this particular engine. Experts can repair noticed that often the failure of the crankshaft in the area of ​​the second or third main journal. Having carefully considered the breaking point came to the conclusion that these breakdowns - a consequence of combat engineers of the small size and light weight of the engine. The short length of the crankshaft - a narrow and crankpins, and it is the high load on the inserts. Narrow cheeks of the crankshaft through which pass yet drilling the oil supply - a high torsional loads on the crankshaft during operation and stress concentration at the narrowest section. As a result, the engine, due to the action on it of high torsional oscillations during operation has two drawbacks:

1. Cranking the crankshaft inserts.
2. Damage to the crankshaft.

[PerthDisco]

Maybe the new Ford 3.0 SDV6 version will offer the crank separately as a part?

[101RRS]

Maybe the new Ford 3.0 SDV6 version will offer the crank separately as a part?

The Ford Powerstroke engine is not an SDV6 - it is single turbo.

However that engine has been around since 2018 - it would not surprise me if the crank and other mods that went into the Ford Powerstroke are actually in the 2019 on D5 SD6 (3.0 SDV6) - I have not heard any very later D5s/RRS having an issue but maybe it is just too new.

[darth]

Hello all,

I'm over from the Rangie side looking for some help.

Last year I had my SDV6 engine in my RRS fail at 59k with a bearing failure and have since then been trying to have LRA / JRA come to the party with an replacement engine as I am of the opinion that 59k from this modern diesel it just not good enough and given the history I have found with these engines I believe I have a very good argument for a replacement engine.

I am looking for a bit of help here for at least 3 names of others whom have had the same issue, i.e.: early engine failure of their 3.0lt engine.
I am looking at going to LRA / JRA one more time with a list of information about their engine failures.
There is so much on the internet about their failures that it is quite unnerving just how many there has been both here and overseas.

If this last ditch effort with them fails I am looking at going to a couple of media outlets and try to apply some pressure through them as I have connections with them.

So if anyone would like to put their name up that would be of a great assistance.
This for manly the media as they like to have at least a few other people to interview.


Thanks all:
Glen


Hi,
I had a similar thing happen to me. Similar mileage and same engine. Happy to chat about it.

Jim

[AS355]

Hi,
I had a similar thing happen to me. Similar mileage and same engine. Happy to chat about it.

Jim

Thanks Jim.
Will chat soon
Cheers
Glen

[loanrangie]

The Ford Powerstroke engine is not an SDV6 - it is single turbo.

However that engine has been around since 2018 - it would not surprise me if the crank and other mods that went into the Ford Powerstroke are actually in the 2019 on D5 SD6 (3.0 SDV6) - I have not heard any very later D5s/RRS having an issue but maybe it is just too new.

Do we know where the engine is sourced from ?, same UK engine plant that supplied the 2.7/3.0 for Land rover or US sourced (could be Mexico) ?

[101RRS]

Do we know where the engine is sourced from ?, same UK engine plant that supplied the 2.7/3.0 for Land rover or US sourced (could be Mexico) ?

The research is a bit vague - it would seem that originally it was to be totally built in the US and have twin turbos but these decisions were revoked and is now single turbo and built at the UK plant alongside the Land Rover engine.

This extract gives a good over view.

To ensure that the engine has the grit to stand up to the abuse of domestic-pickup-truck owners, Ford began the overhaul at the bottom by fitting the 3.0-liter V-6 with a forged crankshaft, like the one found in the 2.7-liter EcoBoost gasoline engine, complemented by purpose-designed main and rod bearings. A variable-geometry turbocharger takes care of boost, and common-rail direct injection running up to 29,000 psi handles the fuel supply, while dual fuel filters keep the supply clean. Aluminum cylinder heads sit atop a compacted-graphite iron block, and a two-stage oil pump keeps the 6.5-quart oil supply circulating with an eye toward efficiency by reducing parasitic loss. Ford is calling for 150,000-mile service intervals on the timing belt, and the 5.4-gallon exhaust aftertreatment fluid supply should be good for 10,000 miles per fill. Although official numbers haven’t been released, Ford said the turbo-diesel 3.0-liter weighs approximately 620 pounds, which is about 150 pounds heavier than the aluminum-block, twin-turbo 3.5-liter EcoBoost. It will be produced in Ford’s Dagenham Engine Plant in the U.K. alongside the Land Rover engine.

As I have indicated elsewhere, it wouldn't surprise me if LR has quietly slipped this new "short block" into current RRS and D5 vehicles - to announce the change would admit there were peoblems with the old engine - I suspect US Lemon Laws meant the changes had to be made before the engine release in the US.

Garry

[DiscoDB]

This is a good article on the changes Ford made to make the engine suitable for the F-150.

Deep Dive: Ford’s 1.5L and 3.0L Diesel Engines (http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1905-deep-dive-fords-1-5l-3-0l-diesel-engines/)

Even though Ford always made the JLR engines it is clear they are distancing themselves from this.

[Turtle60]

This is a good article on the changes Ford made to make the engine suitable for the F-150.

Deep Dive: FordÂ’s 1.5L and 3.0L Diesel Engines (http://www.trucktrend.com/features/1905-deep-dive-fords-1-5l-3-0l-diesel-engines/)

Even though Ford always made the JLR engines it is clear they are distancing themselves from this.

ThatÂ’s a good read. ItÂ’s a shame such a great performing engine suffers premature failure. I wouldnÂ’t begin to critique engine designers as where would we be without them. What I donÂ’t applaud it JLRÂ’s failing to support customers left high and dry. ShouldnÂ’t be a recall but surely a transparent pro rata support for customers who suffer this Catastrophic failure when out of warranty. If itÂ’s as small a percentage as they maintain then not too costly. Of course we suspect different. After all we are very people who supported the brand, proud as punch being waved too by every other dickhead in a landrover you pass.

At this point I have a brilliantly behaving TDV6 with 140000 klms which loosely correlates to 250 million to 400 million revolutions in a pretty hostile environment under the bonnet.....not bad. But it should be way more. A broken crank should NEVER happen. That speaks to design. End of story.

Every time I read these articles I panic a bit and consider my options. Maybe if it fails this highly modified F150 engine might be a bolt in option. But maybe getting out while the going is good makes sense. When something comes along that can hold a candle to the D4 IÂ’m in... probably a long wait.
Bring on the all electric 4x4.

[DiscoDB]

From the article it seems whilst the rotating parts may be interchangeable, it sounds like the engine block and emissions controls are different so unlikely to be a bolt in replacement.

It does read though that the JLR engines received the new crank from 2018 on.

Reading between the lines it is as if Ford (US) never considered the engine in its previous form as being suitable for heavy duty 4WD’s.

[Graeme]

I understood that the block is unchanged but perhaps not entirely, but at least the improved crank is now in the engine used by JLR. There was no indication that the conrods and therefore bearings have been adopted by the JLR engine though, noting that the pistons are different but perhaps only in the shape of the top.

[PhilipA]

Who was it saying that the diesel is dead?
Seems pretty much alive to me with the investment that Ford has made.
Regards PhilipA.

[scarry]

Who was it saying that the diesel is dead?
Regards PhilipA.

Dreamers,even LR have said that EV won't suit most of their products.

[rar110]

I understood that the block is unchanged but perhaps not entirely, but at least the improved crank is now in the engine used by JLR. There was no indication that the conrods and therefore bearings have been adopted by the JLR engine though, noting that the pistons are different but perhaps only in the shape of the top.

Thanks Graeme, any idea what year LR started to fit the updated tdv6, MY2020?

[Graeme]

I have no knowledge other than what I read in the linked article which is dated May 2019.

[DiscoDB]

Thanks Graeme, any idea what year LR started to fit the updated tdv6, MY2020?

I don’t even think LR can answer this one. I am sure Ford would have run out any old parts to their customers (competitors) and saved the good stuff for themselves.

Ford learn’t the trick of mixing and matching different machined parts to address quality control issues decades ago, and I am sure when they realised there was a design/manufacturing issue with the TDV6 crank that the better quality cranks went to Ford. And this could have been happening even with the engines made for the Ford Territory before they made design changes for the F-150.

There will be a lot more to this story than what we will probably ever find out but you do have to wonder if the real issue was with Ford or with JLR.

[INter674]

I don’t even think LR can answer this one. I am sure Ford would have run out any old parts to their customers (competitors) and saved the good stuff for themselves.

Ford learn’t the trick of mixing and matching different machined parts to address quality control issues decades ago, and I am sure when they realised there was a design/manufacturing issue with the TDV6 crank that the better quality cranks went to Ford. And this could have been happening even with the engines made for the Ford Territory before they made design changes for the F-150.

There will be a lot more to this story than what we will probably ever find out but you do have to wonder if the real issue was with Ford or with JLR.


or more likely the PSA Group...

PS..the most credible answer is that of the many contracted crank makers one poss in France produced a batch of cranks not correctly hardened which went into LR cars. The resulting soft metal to soft metal bearing interface eventually leads to siezing and torsional crank failure. This info came from a LR dealer on enquiry re an F150 owner worried about engine reliability and was assured the crank issue is resolved.

[DiscoDB]

or more likely the PSA Group...

PS..the most credible answer is that of the many contracted crank makers one poss in France produced a batch of cranks not correctly hardened which went into LR cars. The resulting soft metal to soft metal bearing interface eventually leads to siezing and torsional crank failure. This info came from a LR dealer on enquiry re an F150 owner worried about engine reliability and was assured the crank issue is resolved.

Everyone was responsible but no one is accountable.

The other credible theory is an incorrect radius undercut between #2 big end and #2 main which created the weak point, and then a vibration induced fatigue failure results in the crank snapping. The shallow undercut is the pre-existing condition but it then takes a contributing action to bring on the failure.

The same design/manufacturing flaw carried over from the 2.7 to the 3.0 even though the crank was different.

[INter674]

Replacement cranks also come with more thrust washers...so I've read which suggests an end float issue.

Either way the simple answer may just be under design for a car with such weight plus power/torque too high for the crank.

We'll probably never know the truth😐

[DiscoJeffster]

Replacement cranks also come with more thrust washers...so I've read which suggests an end float issue.

Either way the simple answer may just be under design for a car with such weight plus power/torque too high for the crank.

We'll probably never know the truth[emoji52]

I recently had all my crank bearings replaced including thrust after the thrust movement was found to be twice that of factory spec.

[DiscoDB]

The other preventative measure which I think can’t do any harm is to replace the harmonic balancer when ever the timing belt is replaced (or even every 100,000kms). A low cost part and simple to change out.

[INter674]

The other preventative measure which I think can’t do any harm is to replace the harmonic balancer when ever the timing belt is replaced (or even every 100,000kms). A low cost part and simple to change out.

A very interesting point and whilst it's n=1 son's mate with a high powered drift car put on an aftermarket harmonic balancer claimed to better suit high rpm than the factory unit. Duly fitted he said at high rpm it sounded different...soon after...bang....crank went plus knee out of bed. He's gone back to the factory unit.

Likewise the mighty (not) TD42t Nissan engine busts cranks due to poor balancer design and/or perished/aged balancer....which can also happen if it comes loose and by the time you realise the crap Nissan cone lock system has let go...its all over. Solution...mmmm..a 3k billet crank plus rebuild..lets say 10k minimum. But of course a TD42 engine failure/blow up is a badge of honour🙄

[landyluvver]

replacement of the balancer at 180 000km is good preventative maintenance
found that almost without fail there seems to be some issues going hand in hand with snapped cranks :
driving hard and switching off without allowing the engine to cool somewhat - restarting and then driving hard almost immediately when the oil is thin and pressure not ideal.
using 5W30 as recommended by LR in hot climates where the trend is to lean towards 10W40 full synthetic
failure of the water "manifold" in the V leading to blown head gaskets due to overheating. invariably 90% of blocks we inspect that have suffered a crank failure has had a warped block and if you carefully go back through the history at some stage the car did overheat.
blown head gaskets due to poor coolant maintenance. excessive corrosion can promote corrosion under the steel head gasket. bi metal corrosion where a ferrous and a non ferrous metal are in close proximity will lead to electrolysis which is aggravated by low levels of antifreeze. antifreeze inhibits electrolysis which protects components. ideal levels is 45 - 50% concentration by volume of long life ethylene Glycol and to drain and replace preferably once per year. most people do not realise that the optimum often receive cars with coolant red with rust coupled with blown head gasket. this is also common on the Td5.
oil leaks above or near the TV damper will destroy the damper and can lead to crank failure.
extended service intervals as recommended by LR is not a happy recipe for an turbo diesel. oil - even the best full synthetic - tend to hold its properties fairly well up to 10 000km and thereafter nosedives severely. call me old fashioned but when you hit 10 000km, do at least an oil change.
hot climates the rule of thumb it to lean towards 10W40 full synthetic. high temperatures will also break down the oil quicker.

[AS355]

Sorry to hear that.

Have you seen this thread? Jaguar Land Rover recall TDV6 engined vehicles (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-and-4-a/265811-jaguar-land-rover-recall-tdv6-engined-vehicles.html)

Thanks for the link I'll have a good look at that.

[AS355]

You are probably aware of the LR Service Bulletins SSM71816 and SSM72928 regarding this problem.
Touch wood, at 140,000 klm I haven't yet had the problem.
John Connolly who writes all things motoring in The Weekend Australian, may be interested to hear of this problem as he has had plenty to say about the Mazda engine problems, and in fact may well have had strong influence in getting the ACCC involved against Mazda.
Good luck with it, LR must not be allowed to get away with this problem and should be offering strong financial assistance to affected owners.


I have emailed John but as yet I haven't heard from him.
I might just have to get back onto him.

Cheers

[AS355]

I have emailed John but as yet I haven't heard from him.
I might just have to get back onto him.

Cheers


Thanks for everyone input with this issue.
Will keep you posted as to were I end up.

Cheers
Glen

[Discodicky]

Thanks for everyone input with this issue.
Will keep you posted as to were I end up.

Cheers
Glen

Have you tried a letter from your lawyer and quoting those two Service Bulletin numbers as well as other o/seas documentation (failures and recalls etc) which others on this Forum have mentioned?

[Mungus]

Interesting 5 part video series from Pistonbroke of a 3ltr TD/SDV6 rebuild due to bearing failure.

Land Rover Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Engine Rebuild Part 1 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/NaGg_qDd5L8)

[link]

we just had the same issue. 125k on the clock, bought from LR used with 35k, regularly serviced - mostly at LR but once elsewhere, just out of warranty. Started making a knocking sound on the way to the grocery store. Made it home and had NRMA come out to take a look and they had it towed to LR. I'm told crankshaft and total engine failure and $50k for a new engine. We have 4 kids and now have to go buy another 7-seater immediately in order to get by. Anyone have any suggestions on the approach to take with LR? I'm just astonished they can be allowed to do this.

[ATH]

Where are all our consumer protector laws and their highly paid people when things like this happen? Totally disgusting and these sort of stories keep me a bit on edge about the longevity or otherwise of a vehicle I love driving. Mines os on 92K and a few months over 4 years old and serviced every 10K but never at the stealers after a nasty experience with a new Td5 Defender years ago. Would that count against me in any similar situation? I bet it would once their lawyers got hold on that info. regarding servicing.
Good luck to all those who do suffer these shocking failures, although not many in terms of percentages of owners, it's enough to make others worry just a bit.....
AlanH.

[Tins]

I know that it's hearsay, but a recent video from that 4WD mob stated that Mitsubishi had some casting issues on the block of certain engines. Some vehicles were up to 9 years old and had maybe 300,000 km on them, and Mitsubishi was replacing the engines. If so, then JLR should hang their heads.

Perhaps some research into this, and if it's factual then include that in your various correspondences.

Start about 16 minutes in:

https://youtu.be/_vFGcfKQ_8s

[Discodicky]

we just had the same issue. 125k on the clock, bought from LR used with 35k, regularly serviced - mostly at LR but once elsewhere, just out of warranty. Started making a knocking sound on the way to the grocery store. Made it home and had NRMA come out to take a look and they had it towed to LR. I'm told crankshaft and total engine failure and $50k for a new engine. We have 4 kids and now have to go buy another 7-seater immediately in order to get by. Anyone have any suggestions on the approach to take with LR? I'm just astonished they can be allowed to do this.

Suggest you quote the Service Bulletin numbers (as well as the failures here in Aus and o/seas including recalls in other countries etc) to your LR dealer and ask them on your behalf to make a pro rata claim to LRA.
Mention that you want this to happen and get a response from Land Rover Aus prior to you bringing in your lawyers and ACCC........

[ATH]

Not LR related and nowhere near as expensive as a new engine but we had lots of problems with a new caravan and had no decent responses from either the maker, nil response, or dealer from whom we'd bought 3 vans over the years. Dealer couldn't have cared less and as far as the maker was concerned, they were in Melbourne and we were in Perth and they had our money in the bank.
I tried consumer affairs here in Perth and the first reaction from one of their officers was that he was "reluctant to approach Mr ***, the dealer, as he was an "icon of the industry"!
My response was robust as they say.
But the seat polisher did contact him and we got partial satisfaction but as the problems with the van grew the less they wanted to be involved so I took action through the small claims court. Took a letter to the dealer stating what action I would undertake if he didn't respond and I swear tears sprang to his eyes as no one had ever done such a nasty thing to him before. :)
The maker responded very quickly and we got what we claimed for but as I said it was a much smaller thing than a new engine.
But worth trying although I feel LR are well used to not responding and their lawyers have all the answers to claim negligence on the part of the owner etc.
Not nice and it makes me a bit wary of continuing ownership of the beast although I love it. :(
AlanH.

PS. Apart from that bloody useless EPB that is. :)

[Discodicky]

we just had the same issue. 125k on the clock, bought from LR used with 35k, regularly serviced - mostly at LR but once elsewhere, just out of warranty. Started making a knocking sound on the way to the grocery store. Made it home and had NRMA come out to take a look and they had it towed to LR. I'm told crankshaft and total engine failure and $50k for a new engine. We have 4 kids and now have to go buy another 7-seater immediately in order to get by. Anyone have any suggestions on the approach to take with LR? I'm just astonished they can be allowed to do this.

With 125k on the clock I would be very surprised if LRA don't offer some form of assistance but it will depend on how forceful you are. You may have to get strong with the help of a lawyer and not back down.

Having said that, in the event you are unsuccessful with LRA, you would not need a $50k engine as that would have all ancilliary components such as turbochargers etc which if cleaned out to remove any debris from the failure, yours would not need replacing. An exchange reco engine would be ok and your repairer changing over all components. Injectors, turbos, water pump etc. The cost would be considerably lower.
Good luck with it and LRA anyway!

PS. Be satisfied in yourself that your LR dealer is trying hard enough for you and actually conveying to LRA your knowledge of Service Bulletins, O/seas recalls, previous Aussie failures, etc.

[AS355]

Suggest you quote the Service Bulletin numbers (as well as the failures here in Aus and o/seas including recalls in other countries etc) to your LR dealer and ask them on your behalf to make a pro rata claim to LRA.
Mention that you want this to happen and get a response from Land Rover Aus prior to you bringing in your lawyers and ACCC........


I'm still at JLRA for a replacement engine, They are very resistant to come to the party even with all the evidence I have on my failure and all other failures both here and O/S.

I went to the ACCC and was redirected to Consumer Affairs who then advised me to go through VCAT here in Vic.
Consumer affairs deal with bigger fish and VACT work with small claims. ( Well, here in Vic anyway )

The chap I spoke to in Consumer Affairs was really helpful and advised me on how to approach VCAT and that he was of the thinking that with what I had shown him VCAT would see that 59K on an engine would be seen as NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE!

I hope he is right.

Just waiting now for my case to come up with a 8 -14 week wait for a hearing.

Fingers crossed.

[scarry]

I'm still at JLRA for a replacement engine, They are very resistant to come to the party even with all the evidence I have on my failure and all other failures both here and O/S.

I went to the ACCC and was redirected to Consumer Affairs who then advised me to go through VCAT here in Vic.
Consumer affairs deal with bigger fish and VACT work with small claims. ( Well, here in Vic anyway )

The chap I spoke to in Consumer Affairs was really helpful and advised me on how to approach VCAT and that he was of the thinking that with what I had shown him VCAT would see that 59K on an engine would be seen as NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE!

I hope he is right.

Just waiting now for my case to come up with a 8 -14 week wait for a hearing.

Fingers crossed.

I hope they are quicker than QCAT in Qld.

I went through them to sort something, nothing to do with a vehicle, and it took two years to get it sorted,luckily, in our favour.

They were an absolute PITA to deal with, and so slow at doing anything it was absolutely ridiculous.

Good luck with it all.

[Tins]

I
The chap I spoke to in Consumer Affairs was really helpful and advised me on how to approach VCAT and that he was of the thinking that with what I had shown him VCAT would see that 59K on an engine would be seen as NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE!



I find this very interesting. I had two family members very involved with both CAV and VCAT. Usually, at least around three years ago, a case like yours wouldn't get to VCAT. Vic laws are very strong on Fit for Purpose, and more importantly, Implied Warranty. Usually CAV would deal directly, rather than refer to VCAT.
Do you have a CAV case number? I reckon you should recontact CAV and ask for a higher up than your first contact to look at the issue. VCAT carries some clout, but it is simply a tribunal, and you are simply a person. It's difficult to get your point across. CAV has far better ways to exert pressure on LR than you do.
Just my two bob's.

Good luck. Squeaky wheel, and all that.

[Redd17]

we just had the same issue. 125k on the clock, bought from LR used with 35k, regularly serviced - mostly at LR but once elsewhere, just out of warranty. Started making a knocking sound on the way to the grocery store. Made it home and had NRMA come out to take a look and they had it towed to LR. I'm told crankshaft and total engine failure and $50k for a new engine. We have 4 kids and now have to go buy another 7-seater immediately in order to get by. Anyone have any suggestions on the approach to take with LR? I'm just astonished they can be allowed to do this.


Hi Link

It's probably a bit late , but I had an almost identical event 125K/ 2 months out of warranty, around 18 months ago, and dealt with the dealer and JLR customer support on it , PM if you would like to know anything about our experience and end result.

[StephCraig]

Hello all,

I'm over from the Rangie side looking for some help.

Last year I had my SDV6 engine in my RRS fail at 59k with a bearing failure and have since then been trying to have LRA / JRA come to the party with an replacement engine as I am of the opinion that 59k from this modern diesel it just not good enough and given the history I have found with these engines I believe I have a very good argument for a replacement engine.

I am looking for a bit of help here for at least 3 names of others whom have had the same issue, i.e.: early engine failure of their 3.0lt engine.
I am looking at going to LRA / JRA one more time with a list of information about their engine failures.
There is so much on the internet about their failures that it is quite unnerving just how many there has been both here and overseas.

If this last ditch effort with them fails I am looking at going to a couple of media outlets and try to apply some pressure through them as I have connections with them.

So if anyone would like to put their name up that would be of a great assistance.
This for manly the media as they like to have at least a few other people to interview.


Thanks all:
Glen


This was us today...
After a catastrophic knock, shudder, stop on the way home from the coast last Thursday, we found out today that our 4yo, 122k km HSE 3.0L turbo diesel will need a total engine replacement, quoted at around $55K...

We have made a phone call to LR... obviously.

Happy to discuss further. We are still in shock.

[ATH]

You're still in shock! I don't doubt that for one moment. What an absolute disgrace that such an expensive vehicle can destroy the engine when it has such low kays on it. Because of this type of incident I'm in the process of softening up my dearly beloved Cook about getting yet another new car but not, no way, never ever another LR.
I love driving the thing but the thought of such horrendous damage somewhere far from help is frightening.
Ours has done less than a 100K and with the very bad depreciation they have I suspect the savings will take a big hit soon.... :(
What to buy to replace it? Gawd knows at this stage. :(
AlanH.

[PerthDisco]

You're still in shock! I don't doubt that for one moment. What an absolute disgrace that such an expensive vehicle can destroy the engine when it has such low kays on it. Because of this type of incident I'm in the process of softening up my dearly beloved Cook about getting yet another new car but not, no way, never ever another LR.
I love driving the thing but the thought of such horrendous damage somewhere far from help is frightening.
Ours has done less than a 100K and with the very bad depreciation they have I suspect the savings will take a big hit soon.... :(
What to buy to replace it? Gawd knows at this stage. :(
AlanH.

Probably infinitely less risk of losing your engine than being in a serious accident when you are away on a trip necessitating recovery. More than one has also caught on fire and burnt to the ground. Disco Inferno. So many disaster options best not to think about it.

[AS355]

I find this very interesting. I had two family members very involved with both CAV and VCAT. Usually, at least around three years ago, a case like yours wouldn't get to VCAT. Vic laws are very strong on Fit for Purpose, and more importantly, Implied Warranty. Usually CAV would deal directly, rather than refer to VCAT.
Do you have a CAV case number? I reckon you should recontact CAV and ask for a higher up than your first contact to look at the issue. VCAT carries some clout, but it is simply a tribunal, and you are simply a person. It's difficult to get your point across. CAV has far better ways to exert pressure on LR than you do.
Just my two bob's.

Good luck. Squeaky wheel, and all that.

Thanks for your insight I will look into this.

Glen

[DazzaTD5]

we just had the same issue. 125k on the clock, bought from LR used with 35k, regularly serviced - mostly at LR but once elsewhere, just out of warranty. Started making a knocking sound on the way to the grocery store. Made it home and had NRMA come out to take a look and they had it towed to LR. I'm told crankshaft and total engine failure and $50k for a new engine. We have 4 kids and now have to go buy another 7-seater immediately in order to get by. Anyone have any suggestions on the approach to take with LR? I'm just astonished they can be allowed to do this.

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[PerthDisco]

Buddy of mine was at his favourite repairer with his RRS and there were 4 cars of the S/TDV6 variety with blown engines. Only one was crank related. The others overheat or bad / no maintenance connected. Repairer said to him “they call me and tell me there were lots of warning lights but I couldn’t stop had to make it home. In the morning it wouldn’t start”.

[Bulletman]

Buddy of mine was at his favourite repairer with his RRS and there were 4 cars of the TDV6 variety with blown engines. Only one was crank related. The others overheat or bad / no maintenance connected. Repairer said to him “they call me and tell me there were lots of warning lights but I couldn’t stop had to make it home. In the morning it wouldn’t start”.

When I was in Perth I went with my father in law in his D2 , to what I could assume is a well known indie judging by the amount of land rovers in his workshop and yard, he had a SDV6 D4 which had apparently been serviced by a workshop not familiar with land rovers and the story went along the lines of no dipstick so they just put heaps of oil in it , then a bit more just in case. The result was a blown engine but they were struggling to get a 3.0ltr replacement engine so it was going to be there a while.

I am sure there is more to that story but end result was another blown 3.0ltr engine.

Bulletman

[Eric SDV6SE]

When I was in Perth I went with my father in law in his D2 , to what I could assume is a well known indie judging by the amount of land rovers in his workshop and yard, he had a SDV6 D4 which had apparently been serviced by a workshop not familiar with land rovers and the story went along the lines of no dipstick so they just put heaps of oil in it , then a bit more just in case. The result was a blown engine but they were struggling to get a 3.0ltr replacement engine so it was going to be there a while.

I am sure there is more to that story but end result was another blown 3.0ltr engine.

Bulletman

There's genuine defective goods that are covered under warranty as is the intent of the ACL.

Then there's stupidity, for which unfortunately there is no warranty.....

[hiker]

We bought our 2016 TDV6 brand new with the intention of being our 'keeper' for our retirement. With 40+ years of LR ownership including Defenders, RR Classics (3), RR Sport, Evoque and D3 we consider ourselves pretty loyal to the brand, and happy to maintain beyond the recommended LR levels (eg 10k oils etc.

Very disturbed to read about the catastrophic engine failures and the described disdain and contempt shown by LR to owners who have experienced.

As retirees with limited funds we are increasingly anxious about the possibility of being somewhere in our retirement travels and with a blown engine, therefore no car and seemingly no clear action plan.

With the numerous instances of engine failure described in this forum, (and no doubt many who do not subscribe) is there no generally accepted action plan which has proven successful - eg an engine replacement strategy with contacts (indy not LR) and general idea of costs?

Or is there an insurance policy available to cover this? We have Roadside Assist and NRMA Premium with extra Kms but nothing which will cover engine replacement.

Thanks and stay safe!

[mowog]

We bought our 2016 TDV6 brand new with the intention of being our 'keeper' for our retirement. With 40+ years of LR ownership including Defenders, RR Classics (3), RR Sport, Evoque and D3 we consider ourselves pretty loyal to the brand, and happy to maintain beyond the recommended LR levels (eg 10k oils etc.

Very disturbed to read about the catastrophic engine failures and the described disdain and contempt shown by LR to owners who have experienced.

As retirees with limited funds we are increasingly anxious about the possibility of being somewhere in our retirement travels and with a blown engine, therefore no car and seemingly no clear action plan.

With the numerous instances of engine failure described in this forum, (and no doubt many who do not subscribe) is there no generally accepted action plan which has proven successful - eg an engine replacement strategy with contacts (indy not LR) and general idea of costs?

Or is there an insurance policy available to cover this? We have Roadside Assist and NRMA Premium with extra Kms but nothing which will cover engine replacement.

Thanks and stay safe!

You can let eat you up from the inside or just let it slide till it happens or doesn't happen.

I am at 244000 klm with my 2010 3l TDV6. It has worked hard its whole life towing a big van for a lot of those KLM's It has been serviced every 6 months its whole life....

But blowing an engine is not the only very expensive issue. And I have had many of those

Split intake manifolds
Split Intake Plenum
Torque Converter slipping
Rear Drive Shaft
Failed KVM (smart key module)
The above all happened to mine.

The coolant crossover is also an issue that can destroy an engine.
Oil Leaks Turbo Issues....

The List goes on

[RRS Nathan]

Hi,
I had a similar thing happen to me. Similar mileage and same engine. Happy to chat about it.

Jim

Hi Jim & Glenn
I’ve literally had the same thing occur on the weekend. I’d really like to hear what happened to you and whether you were able get anywhere with LR. Are you happy to message offline? I’m being quoted circa $30k to replace the engine and I’m staggered this has happened to a car I brought brand new only 5 years ago. Thanks

[RRS Nathan]

Hello all,

I'm over from the Rangie side looking for some help.

Last year I had my SDV6 engine in my RRS fail at 59k with a bearing failure and have since then been trying to have LRA / JRA come to the party with an replacement engine as I am of the opinion that 59k from this modern diesel it just not good enough and given the history I have found with these engines I believe I have a very good argument for a replacement engine.

I am looking for a bit of help here for at least 3 names of others whom have had the same issue, i.e.: early engine failure of their 3.0lt engine.
I am looking at going to LRA / JRA one more time with a list of information about their engine failures.
There is so much on the internet about their failures that it is quite unnerving just how many there has been both here and overseas.

If this last ditch effort with them fails I am looking at going to a couple of media outlets and try to apply some pressure through them as I have connections with them.

So if anyone would like to put their name up that would be of a great assistance.
This for manly the media as they like to have at least a few other people to interview.


Thanks all:
Glen


Hi Glen
I’ve had the exact same thing happen. Id be happy to be involved. Would you be free to chat?
Thanks

[hiker]

You can let eat you up from the inside or just let it slide till it happens or doesn't happen.

I am at 244000 klm with my 2010 3l TDV6. It has worked hard its whole life towing a big van for a lot of those KLM's It has been serviced every 6 months its whole life....

But blowing an engine is not the only very expensive issue. And I have had many of those

Split intake manifolds
Split Intake Plenum
Torque Converter slipping
Rear Drive Shaft
Failed KVM (smart key module)
The above all happened to mine.

The coolant crossover is also an issue that can destroy an engine.
Oil Leaks Turbo Issues....

The List goes on



Thanks Mowog - our TDV6 hasn't towed anything yet, still deciding on van type & style!

You are absolutely correct - it comes down to accepting the risk or not accepting .... and we know that no vehicle is 100% reliable!

[mowog]

Thanks Mowog - our TDV6 hasn't towed anything yet, still deciding on van type & style!

You are absolutely correct - it comes down to accepting the risk or not accepting .... and we know that no vehicle is 100% reliable!

We do like our Land Rovers I see by your signature you have 2...

We tempted fate by buying a 2008 L322 TDV8 to add to the fleet.

[hiker]

Absolutely - definitely heart over head - but then, if the other options are also all "computer networks on wheels" why not stick to the brand we know - we have a long history!

[stuarth44]

I am at present negotiating to buy a commercial fishing boat, the main engine a kta 19 cummins rated 550@1800 rpm has 80 thousand hrs on it, I have written in many places, that, each and every time you do an eng. oil change, take the filter, cut it in half, read the filtrate, bearing material shows like gold 'cept it ain't, tis an alloy of bronze, I just read my tdv6 2.7 @212000km, no sign of metal, why engine shops do not always do this simple check, beats me, was the first thing i learnt when working in the field for Cummins Au.
good luck and I'm so sorry for your grief, tis why our discos sell for one third of the price Land Cruisers do and it's going to stay that way, mind you second hand discos are priced right, Lcs are not

[Eric SDV6SE]

I am at present negotiating to buy a commercial fishing boat, the main engine a kta 19 cummins rated 550@1800 rpm has 80 thousand hrs on it, I have written in many places, that, each and every time you do an eng. oil change, take the filter, cut it in half, read the filtrate, bearing material shows like gold 'cept it ain't, tis an alloy of bronze, I just read my tdv6 2.7 @212000km, no sign of metal, why engine shops do not always do this simple check, beats me, was the first thing i learnt when working in the field for Cummins Au.
good luck and I'm so sorry for your grief, tis why our discos sell for one third of the price Land Cruisers do and it's going to stay that way, mind you second hand discos are priced right, Lcs are not

Sage advice, will do that at next oil change. 213000 km and my SDV6SE is going strong. Dropped the D4 off this morning for active engine mount replacement at my Indy. They happened to have an LC in the shop, blown engine at 80,000km, Toyota Australia doesn't want to know, owner has had to go private for full engine swap.

So they all do it (i.e Lunch their engines) regardless of marque, just comes down to how it's looked after, like any piece of machinery.

[TonyC]

I am at present negotiating to buy a commercial fishing boat, the main engine a kta 19 cummins rated 550@1800 rpm has 80 thousand hrs on it, I have written in many places, that, each and every time you do an eng. oil change, take the filter, cut it in half, read the filtrate, bearing material shows like gold 'cept it ain't, tis an alloy of bronze, I just read my tdv6 2.7 @212000km, no sign of metal, why engine shops do not always do this simple check, beats me, was the first thing i learnt when working in the field for Cummins Au.
good luck and I'm so sorry for your grief, tis why our discos sell for one third of the price Land Cruisers do and it's going to stay that way, mind you second hand discos are priced right, Lcs are notHow do cut the filter open with out creating filings from the case?

Tony

[DiscoJeffster]

Sage advice, will do that at next oil change. 213000 km and my SDV6SE is going strong. Dropped the D4 off this morning for active engine mount replacement at my Indy. They happened to have an LC in the shop, blown engine at 80,000km, Toyota Australia doesn't want to know, owner has had to go private for full engine swap.

So they all do it (i.e Lunch their engines) regardless of marque, just comes down to how it's looked after, like any piece of machinery.

While how you look after it is a factor in longevity, at the end of the day, it’s more down to the product you start with - something you have no influence over. Get a dud engine from the manufacturer and there’s no amount of proactive fluid changes that’ll keep it alive.

[stuarth44]

While how you look after it is a factor in longevity, at the end of the day, it’s more down to the product you start with - something you have no influence over. Get a dud engine from the manufacturer and there’s no amount of proactive fluid changes that’ll keep it alive.

dunno how LR gets away with it, the d3 n 4 should have been configured with a 5 lunger, these things truly are a nightmare to work upon

[stuarth44]

Sage advice, will do that at next oil change. 213000 km and my SDV6SE is going strong. Dropped the D4 off this morning for active engine mount replacement at my Indy. They happened to have an LC in the shop, blown engine at 80,000km, Toyota Australia doesn't want to know, owner has had to go private for full engine swap.

So they all do it (i.e Lunch their engines) regardless of marque, just comes down to how it's looked after, like any piece of machinery.

i met a lady whose son filled the 3.0l right up with oil, by mistake, it smashed the crank, LR 53k quote, after one year fight, the insurance co had to pay OMBUDSMAN ruled it was an accident
she loves her 2013 but hates the 5 and the new defender, so she does not know what will replace it, my advice, try for a million km

[DiscoJeffster]

i met a lady whose son filled the 3.0l right up with oil, by mistake, it smashed the crank, LR 53k quote, after one year fight, the insurance co had to pay OMBUDSMAN ruled it was an accident
she loves her 2013 but hates the 5 and the new defender, so she does not know what will replace it, my advice, try for a million km

I’m going for 500,000km out of mine. Nearly 300k km. It’ll cost me to get there, but by then I might be able to afford a D130 second hand

[PhilipA]

Interesting that the buying guide for Velars in a late 2020 LRO also mentions this in the engine section by one of the experts in UK. (AFAIR Black Paw)

Only GBP5k for a new 4litre there apparently.

Regards PhilipA

[101RRS]

Interesting that the buying guide for Velars in a late 2020 LRO also mentions this in the engine section by one of the experts in UK. (AFAIR Black Paw)

Only GBP5k for a new 4litre there apparently.

Regards PhilipA

What current/modern LR uses a 4 litre engine? I didn't think Velers had a 4 litre engine in any form.

[PhilipA]

What current/modern LR uses a 4 litre engine?
Sorry 3 litre, D4
Regards PhilipA

[Tombie]

I know that it's hearsay, but a recent video from that 4WD mob stated that Mitsubishi had some casting issues on the block of certain engines. Some vehicles were up to 9 years old and had maybe 300,000 km on them, and Mitsubishi was replacing the engines. If so, then JLR should hang their heads.

Perhaps some research into this, and if it's factual then include that in your various correspondences.

Start about 16 minutes in:

https://youtu.be/_vFGcfKQ_8s

Dragging this up...

Yes, my son has one... Theres always a catch..

If it has failed completely they will examine the engine, and if it has failed due to the issue - you get a new one.
If its showing symptoms of failing and not within a specific VIN range (and several are outside of it) - then it needs to be stress tested.
If you have this done, and it passes - you pay for the test - even if the symptoms of the failure are there when diagnosed.
If it fails - you get a new motor

But all your old gear gets bolted to it [bigwhistle]

[stuarth44]

How do cut the filter open with out creating filings from the case?

Tony

there is no case on 2.7, just corro paper, even with a tin spin on you will not contaminate filtrate, use a knife

[TonyC]

there is no case on 2.7, just corro paper, even with a tin spin on you will not contaminate filtrate, use a knifeI serviced our Subaru today, and will do the Defender tomorrow.
There's no way your getting into either of those filters with a knife.
It would be a hacksaw or grinder.
Tony

[loanrangie]

But all your old gear gets bolted to it [bigwhistle]

Just like Toymota do after a dusted V8D.

[Discodicky]

I am at present negotiating to buy a commercial fishing boat, the main engine a kta 19 cummins rated 550@1800 rpm has 80 thousand hrs on it, I have written in many places, that, each and every time you do an eng. oil change, take the filter, cut it in half, read the filtrate, bearing material shows like gold 'cept it ain't, tis an alloy of bronze, I just read my tdv6 2.7 @212000km, no sign of metal, why engine shops do not always do this simple check, beats me, was the first thing i learnt when working in the field for Cummins Au.
good luck and I'm so sorry for your grief, tis why our discos sell for one third of the price Land Cruisers do and it's going to stay that way, mind you second hand discos are priced right, Lcs are not

Rather than cut up old filter and trust your eyes...it's a lot easier to take an oil sample whilst draining and send it off to the lab.
Apart from wear materials such as iron, chrome, copper, PQ Index, etc it will also report such things as % fuel present (due to over fueling), water/sodium (head gasket or water ingress somewhere) etc etc.
Comprehensive report and well worth the munney.
Purchase from a Komatsu or Caterpillar Dealer (or others) and follow the instructions. Dead easy.
I've just started doing it again, at 156,000 klms the results were very pleasing.

[Eric SDV6SE]

While how you look after it is a factor in longevity, at the end of the day, it’s more down to the product you start with - something you have no influence over. Get a dud engine from the manufacturer and there’s no amount of proactive fluid changes that’ll keep it alive.

True, they are a mass produced item after all, bound to be QA discrepancies

[stuarth44]

I serviced our Subaru today, and will do the Defender tomorrow.
There's no way your getting into either of those filters with a knife.
It would be a hacksaw or grinder.
Tony

where you cut the swarf will be on the outside you are only looking at the inner side, the oil floes inner to outer

[BradC]

where you cut the swarf will be on the outside you are only looking at the inner side, the oil floes inner to outer

It does? I'm asking because I don't really know rather than being confrontational. I can't find it in any of the manual sections.

Every spin-on filter I've cut apart has had an anti-drain back valve on the outside set up such that the oil flows outside to inside. I cut them apart with a lathe so the swarf is completely distinct from any embedded contaminants in the paper. I can't see the TDV6 cartridge being different. If the oil flowed inside to outside I'd have thought the media would balloon and fail.

I've heard reverse flow filters exist (inside to outside) but I've never seen one in the flesh.

[stuarth44]

It does? I'm asking because I don't really know rather than being confrontational. I can't find it in any of the manual sections.

Every spin-on filter I've cut apart has had an anti-drain back valve on the outside set up such that the oil flows outside to inside. I cut them apart with a lathe so the swarf is completely distinct from any embedded contaminants in the paper. I can't see the TDV6 cartridge being different. If the oil flowed inside to outside I'd have thought the media would balloon and fail.

I've heard reverse flow filters exist (inside to outside) but I've never seen one in the flesh.

wrong abt flow path, maybe, all i know is the metal shows, it is 49 years since my Cummins days, memory not perfect

[josh.huber]

Most flow outside to inside.
The caterpillar tool for cutting a filter doesn't create swarf, it's basically a really large pipe cutter. Like what a plumber uses to cut copper pipes.
If you were going to cut one of these diesel engines filters to inspect for Metal don't forget to"press" the oil out. Take the cut section and put it in a vice tighten up then inspect with a torch.
Modern oil analysis far outweighs filter cuts in my opinion. However I believe caterpillar in Guildford have a filter cut service and the results are inspected under a microscope. They can then determine the metal and type of failure that led to it being caught in the filter.

[stuarth44]

Most flow outside to inside.
The caterpillar tool for cutting a filter doesn't create swarf, it's basically a really large pipe cutter. Like what a plumber uses to cut copper pipes.
If you were going to cut one of these diesel engines filters to inspect for Metal don't forget to"press" the oil out. Take the cut section and put it in a vice tighten up then inspect with a torch.
Modern oil analysis far outweighs filter cuts in my opinion. However I believe caterpillar in Guildford have a filter cut service and the results are inspected under a microscope. They can then determine the metal and type of failure that led to it being caught in the filter.

the idea is for the home mech to catch it before it becomes a major,

[josh.huber]

Yeah I agree Stuart, but if concerned oil testing is far more accurate then a filter cut. Very easy to get access to these days aswell

[BradC]

Yeah I agree Stuart, but if concerned oil testing is far more accurate then a filter cut. Very easy to get access to these days aswell

And a hell of a lot less messy than cutting a filter on a lathe!

[DiscoJeffster]

If I’m relying on seeing metal in my filter as my guidance to my engine is about to grenade, we’re in trouble.

[stuarth44]

If I’m relying on seeing metal in my filter as my guidance to my engine is about to grenade, we’re in trouble.

bearings often take time before they start to knock
but this test if often used when you go out to an engine failure, tells you whether it is piston or bottom end
I was often called out, once i had to go to a truck body shop, the truck had rolled, the driver was dead, the engine was running , truck on its side, i had to pull the pan to check it out,
anyways, i 'm over the nitpicking here.

[BenLR]

Hi Glen, sorry to hear, I too have a failed SDV6 HP in a 2015 HSE with only 150k km. Full LR dealership online service history and no prior indication, no lights, bells, nothing. We are devastated and not yet decided which way to go. $30k to a new engine or towards a new car? LR are not taking and responsibility. Very disappointed.

[ramblingboy42]

I keep having these good thoughts about getting a d4 and getting back into the fold , then I keep seeing these things happening......

[DiscoJeffster]

I keep having these good thoughts about getting a d4 and getting back into the fold , then I keep seeing these things happening......

How many D4s do I see driving around every day? It’s a lottery, and you’re as likely to win first division as have your engine fail.

Actually ok, make that second division [emoji1787]

[Falcon500]

Hi Glen, sorry to hear, I too have a failed SDV6 HP in a 2015 HSE with only 150k km. Full LR dealership online service history and no prior indication, no lights, bells, nothing. We are devastated and not yet decided which way to go. $30k to a new engine or towards a new car? LR are not taking and responsibility. Very disappointed.

That is terrible to hear mate. Given your vehicle has had full dealership service I would not give up on getting LR to come to the party. If your dealership doesn't want to have anything to do with it maybe contact LR directly. Others on here will have more knowledge on this but I would really try and get LR involved - this is a known issue and I would think since your vehicle has been dealer serviced it gives you a better chance.

[loanrangie]

That is terrible to hear mate. Given your vehicle has had full dealership service I would not give up on getting LR to come to the party. If your dealership doesn't want to have anything to do with it maybe contact LR directly. Others on here will have more knowledge on this but I would really try and get LR involved - this is a known issue and I would think since your vehicle has been dealer serviced it gives you a better chance.

Definitely, and lawyer up.

[Jueylea]

I wonder if a failure ever occured at a time that caused an accident or at worst a fatality if a recall would be mandated based on safety?

[econti]

I wonder if a failure ever occured at a time that caused an accident or at worst a fatality if a recall would be mandated based on safety?

I don't think they'd ever do that unless forced, a couple of lawsuits is a lot less money than replacement cranks in all diesel D4s

[scarry]

I keep having these good thoughts about getting a d4 and getting back into the fold , then I keep seeing these things happening......

Pity they dont last like this.

The Million-Mile 2007 Toyota Tundra Pickup: The Teardown (https://www.motortrend.com/features/million-mile-tundra-the-tear-down/?fbclid=IwAR0JD-n9CsBI78q3BY4zRLvdd6FEoSW9eGZ6xnnkCZKvd074cMX_DN-iCDI)

[350RRC]

Pity they dont last like this.

The Million-Mile 2007 Toyota Tundra Pickup: The Teardown (https://www.motortrend.com/features/million-mile-tundra-the-tear-down/?fbclid=IwAR0JD-n9CsBI78q3BY4zRLvdd6FEoSW9eGZ6xnnkCZKvd074cMX_DN-iCDI)

And that's miles, not k's. Very impressive.

Should give all the 200 series owners some hope. [biggrin]

DL

[scarry]

And that's miles, not k's. Very impressive.

Should give all the 200 series owners some hope. [biggrin]

DL

Its a petrol model,although there is a thread on another forum on high mileage 1 VD,and there are heaps up over 500K KM,never touched,many up in the 700K plus.A local guy i know here contracts for the council and he has two that are over the 500k mark,engines never touched,but clutches every 200K.Tows huge dual wheel trailers most of the time.

Its all about looking after them,servicing them properly,no matter the brand,although this crankshaft issue occurs even if servicing has been done properly,so its obviously an inherent design issue,or whatever.

The neglected vehicles,no matter what brand, are the ones that appear with issues,mostly.Or the heavily modded,tuned,chipped,etc.

[Vern]

I'd say there are more dusted or blown 1vd's than there are over the 500kkm and up ones out there unfortunately.

[Grimace]

Just to add to this my uncles d4 has seized the crank at 220k...

Driving along fine, vehicle has never had an issue other than requiring both inlets replaced.
Timing belts were also done at last major service.

We don't know what cause of action to take with it, but thought it worth noting.

[PerthDisco]

Just bumped into a guy i took 4wding a few years back and as a result he ended up buying a D5. He told me a month out of warranty (last Oct) the engine died. Dealer serviced and with extended warranty he eventually got approved for a new engine. That engine is still to arrive he expects to have it back in April.

Interesting news is that it is a 4 cylinder so LR having fun with those also.

[PhilipA]

6 thousand miles, £15000 to repair engine and outside warranty claim, this is OUTRAGEOUS - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFV2Oi0x6oM&ab_channel=BarumEngines)

Here is a You tube from an engine builder in UK discussing the problem with Land Rover 4cylinder engines.

Regards PhilipA

[loanrangie]

Just bumped into a guy i took 4wding a few years back and as a result he ended up buying a D5. He told me a month out of warranty (last Oct) the engine died. Dealer serviced and with extended warranty he eventually got approved for a new engine. That engine is still to arrive he expects to have it back in April.

Interesting news is that it is a 4 cylinder so LR having fun with those also.

Its a known issue with the ingenium 4 which is what is in the D5, lots of problems with oil dilution.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Just bumped into a guy i took 4wding a few years back and as a result he ended up buying a D5. He told me a month out of warranty (last Oct) the engine died. Dealer serviced and with extended warranty he eventually got approved for a new engine. That engine is still to arrive he expects to have it back in April.

Interesting news is that it is a 4 cylinder so LR having fun with those also.

Friends of ours bought a brand new, fresh off the assembly line, Ford Ranger late last year to tow their caravan. He has just left the Navy acter 20plus years and planning for a nice break. They are not car people, so fully reliant on the dealer. Less than 12 months into ownership, routine service and the dealer reported metal shavings in the oil filter. New engine required. Last I heard Ford was replacing and covering all costs under warranty, but it does not give a great deal of confidence in those cars. No detail yet on what failed.

[PerthDisco]

This guy should be next PM

Tojo owners feel the pain also so it seems. Fair point the price off the production line is probably $2k for a long engine. Why not make one of the biggest ownership disasters of any brand such a nightmare.

NEW GENUINE ENGINES SHOULD BE CHEAPER or FREE $6900.00 ?????????? save DISSAPOINTMENT! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/IBQJFINihwg)

[Mavo]

Hello,

I realise this thread is a few years old, but a very pertinent read for me at the moment.

Last week, my (much loved) Land Rover Discovery4 SDV6 3.0L T/D (140,000km) seized completely in peak hour traffic without any evident signs of warning.

Specifics:
- Purchased at a JLRA dealership new (2017)
- Entire service history with Land Rover at the recommended intervals and requirements
- Most recent service being 3 weeks ago, (84 month scheduled service, $3k+) where timing belts, injector pump belt kit, gasket cover and filters etc were all replaced. No other issues identified.

Land Rover service are conducting a review of the cause at my request. Early diagnosis is that the engine is unsalvageable, mechanical failure due to 'metal decay'.

It's hard to fathom how the engine failed only a few weeks (approx. 250km driven) after the major service, particularly when no issues were flagged for attention following this service.

Coincidence??

[shack]

Hello,

I realise this thread is a few years old, but a very pertinent read for me at the moment.

Last week, my (much loved) Land Rover Discovery4 SDV6 3.0L T/D (140,000km) seized completely in peak hour traffic without any evident signs of warning.

Specifics:
- Purchased at a JLRA dealership new (2017)
- Entire service history with Land Rover at the recommended intervals and requirements
- Most recent service being 3 weeks ago, (84 month scheduled service, $3k+) where timing belts, injector pump belt kit, gasket cover and filters etc were all replaced. No other issues identified.

Land Rover service are conducting a review of the cause at my request. Early diagnosis is that the engine is unsalvageable, mechanical failure due to 'metal decay'.

It's hard to fathom how the engine failed only a few weeks (approx. 250km driven) after the major service, particularly when no issues were flagged for attention following this service.

Coincidence??
Possibly.

If the belts were changed it's possible something has gone wrong there.

If it's the rear belt the motor won't be seized, but it won't have fuel.

If it's the front belt, the motor also shouldn't be seized, although it may have had no oil pressure for a few seconds, the main problem being valves and pistons meeting up.

Most likely is a crank or bearing failure.

Unless no oil was put back in, it shouldn't be related to the service.