TDV6 SDV6 engine failure/success poll

[shack]

I was going to post this on the thread with the L320 engine failure, but thought best to start fresh so as not to complicate the other.

I'm not aware of the numbers of these engines that are failing, and I've not seen a poll or register that indicates such.
I know some on this forum that are extremely unhappy with the situation though, and fair enough..

Would it be appropriate to run a poll on here (are polls allowable or doable) for people to list the car and failures experienced, and also the LACK of failure their car had experienced ?

I think this would be handy for people fighting for warranty/fair expectation, or even looking to buy, to get a realistic picture % wise of failure.

Cheers
James

[PerthDisco]

Massive topic on Disco3.co.uk big topic but remember the number of registered forum users is minuscule in terms of total sold. Forums concentrate problems but in the mainstream population they are incredibly rare.

It’s the Mesothelioma of car problems. (Remembering some building site work I did back in the day)

[shack]

Massive topic on Disco3.co.uk big topic but remember the number of registered forum users is minuscule in terms of total sold. Forums concentrate problems but in the mainstream population they are incredibly rare.

It’s the Mesothelioma of car problems. (Remembering some building site work I did back in the day)I agree, but if everyone on the forum were too poll, if they have a car with the mentioned engines, irrespective of if they have experienced failure or not, it would substantiate some actual data, more scientific than the old "seat of the pants" style guesstimation.

Some forums you read would suggest failure rates of 30-50%, but I doubt this is realistic.

I personally have info on 6 vehicles, and 2 of them have had catastrophic failure, so that's a third. But my sample size is way too small, and one of the vehicles is @ 360.000 and the other @ 450,000..

Anyway, just my thoughts on it

[StephCraig]

We’ve just been advised that our Discovery 4 HSE 3.0l Turbo Diesel has had a catastrophic engine failure. She has 121K on the clock and was purchase brand spanking new in August 2016. The dealership advised us today that the rebuild of the engine and twin turbos will cost $55K... Obviously we have just commenced discussions with Land Rover. Devastating. Never thought we would regret the purchase of this car, but now very very nervous indeed.

[shack]

We’ve just been advised that our Discovery 4 HSE 3.0l Turbo Diesel has had a catastrophic engine failure. She has 121K on the clock and was purchase brand spanking new in August 2016. The dealership advised us today that the rebuild of the engine and twin turbos will cost $55K... Obviously we have just commenced discussions with Land Rover. Devastating. Never thought we would regret the purchase of this car, but now very very nervous indeed.I'm really sorry to hear that guys...

I would have loved it if a poll had gotten off the ground to give some idea of failure rates, as I feel this would help give some muscle to the discussion.

Have you been told what has actually happened?

Cheers
James

[ramblingboy42]

Stephcraig,

I feel for you and it concerns me the obvious reason you joined the forum.

I owned a D2 for 8 yrs and covered around 300k but spent $70,000 all ends up avoiding a catastrophe ie/ just in time repairs and modifications.

I had intention of purchasing a D4 but I'm scared ****less.

They are still the best cars on the road , but not for me.

There were a lot of insults to other brands in this forum such as "exploder" . "handgrenade", "playdough" , and I guess there's a lot of payback in last few years with exploding D4's.

I have a 10yo (by date) 4wd which uses nothing but consumeables and the only thing that breaks on long hard regular trips are a few stupid little plastic catches inside , and that's the way it should be too.

The manufacturers representatives contact me every so often....Imagine LR doing that.

I really hope you get a good result.

[StephCraig]

I'm really sorry to hear that guys...

I would have loved it if a poll had gotten off the ground to give some idea of failure rates, as I feel this would help give some muscle to the discussion.

Have you been told what has actually happened?

Cheers
James

Not yet. They are doing ‘diagnostics’...
We are hoping for some news in the next couple of days, but the dealership seemed quite ‘meh, whatever’ in giving us the news that the car we spent $100K on 4 years ago, and thought that we would have for the rest of our driving lives in all but worthless now... Our son, who works in retail, came in the door, heard our tale and said ‘B***SH*T’. He quite rightly made the comparison of what fate would befall him if he sold an electronic unit which so completely failed the brief in terms of functionality.

Up until last week, I would have sung the praises of LR and Discovery from the highest hill...

Feel like a bit of a fool tonight.

[Discodicky]

We’ve just been advised that our Discovery 4 HSE 3.0l Turbo Diesel has had a catastrophic engine failure. She has 121K on the clock and was purchase brand spanking new in August 2016. The dealership advised us today that the rebuild of the engine and twin turbos will cost $55K... Obviously we have just commenced discussions with Land Rover. Devastating. Never thought we would regret the purchase of this car, but now very very nervous indeed.

How are you going with LRA & Dealer discussions re Policy warranty claim?
Managed to resolve anything yet?

[StephCraig]

How are you going with LRA & Dealer discussions re Policy warranty claim?
Managed to resolve anything yet?

Hello again,

Was really hoping to be able to say more in terms of resolution at this stage, but sadly nope, so far, not much to report.

Our car has been sitting in the car yard of the dealership that we bought it from (Lennock, in Canberra) for just over a month now. We originally contacted JLR in a panic (after getting the ‘Engine and 2 turbos = $55K’ repair advice from the fellow at the dealership) before getting your comprehensive and excellent advice on how to proceed. So we had a case number and not much else from them…

We received a hire car from the dealership when the car was towed in (which was gratefully received) but we were unsure about how long we would have it (having been given no advice on timelines, etc). All we knew was that JLR and the dealership were in conversation from the get-go, and that the hire car had been approved for at least a week. We then received an unexpected communication from the hire company saying that the car had been approved for the duration of the ‘warranty repair’… It was a mixed message, but certainly the kind that we had been hoping for. JLR then chimed in a few days later saying that the car would need to be returned at the end of that week… Hmmm… JLR said that the hire car company/dealerships had made a mistake and that they (JLR) would rather be able to make a contribution to the repair than to keep us mobile. Okey doke. Needless to say, that was all a bit confusing.

But all of that aside, we eventually decided that the back and forth needed clarity and paid the dealership a face to face visit. We were advised that the oil from the engine had been sent away for testing which would reveal exactly what the composition of metals therein were, and from there the components which had failed would be identified. Based on that analysis, the conversation between the dealership and JLR would resume and we’d get more information on how JLR were planning to proceed…

In short, we do feel as though the dealership are doing their best to assist us. They seem to be following some kind of pre-ordained process (I guess if the engines in these cars do this as regularly as it appears they do - they probably know the drill) and are trying very hard to minimise the impact on our lives of having the car out of action (with hire car arrangements, etc). JLR have been less willing to roll out the red carpet. Our case manager has not been great with comms, and has been more often the bearer of bad news than good. Suffice to say, now that we have a better understanding of how things are likely to proceed (so grateful to this forum…) we’ll be talking to the dealership from now on and hoping that JLR can be convinced to come to the party.

Our next expected update is next week sometime… Will keep you updated! And thanks again for all the great advice.

[Discodicky]

Hello again,

Was really hoping to be able to say more in terms of resolution at this stage, but sadly nope, so far, not much to report.

Our car has been sitting in the car yard of the dealership that we bought it from (Lennock, in Canberra) for just over a month now. We originally contacted JLR in a panic (after getting the ‘Engine and 2 turbos = $55K’ repair advice from the fellow at the dealership) before getting your comprehensive and excellent advice on how to proceed. So we had a case number and not much else from them…

We received a hire car from the dealership when the car was towed in (which was gratefully received) but we were unsure about how long we would have it (having been given no advice on timelines, etc). All we knew was that JLR and the dealership were in conversation from the get-go, and that the hire car had been approved for at least a week. We then received an unexpected communication from the hire company saying that the car had been approved for the duration of the ‘warranty repair’… It was a mixed message, but certainly the kind that we had been hoping for. JLR then chimed in a few days later saying that the car would need to be returned at the end of that week… Hmmm… JLR said that the hire car company/dealerships had made a mistake and that they (JLR) would rather be able to make a contribution to the repair than to keep us mobile. Okey doke. Needless to say, that was all a bit confusing.

But all of that aside, we eventually decided that the back and forth needed clarity and paid the dealership a face to face visit. We were advised that the oil from the engine had been sent away for testing which would reveal exactly what the composition of metals therein were, and from there the components which had failed would be identified. Based on that analysis, the conversation between the dealership and JLR would resume and we’d get more information on how JLR were planning to proceed…

In short, we do feel as though the dealership are doing their best to assist us. They seem to be following some kind of pre-ordained process (I guess if the engines in these cars do this as regularly as it appears they do - they probably know the drill) and are trying very hard to minimise the impact on our lives of having the car out of action (with hire car arrangements, etc). JLR have been less willing to roll out the red carpet. Our case manager has not been great with comms, and has been more often the bearer of bad news than good. Suffice to say, now that we have a better understanding of how things are likely to proceed (so grateful to this forum…) we’ll be talking to the dealership from now on and hoping that JLR can be convinced to come to the party.

Our next expected update is next week sometime… Will keep you updated! And thanks again for all the great advice.

Thanks for your update on the situation, we all have our fingers crossed for a successful outcome for you.
Not impressed with the 'speed' at which LRA is handling this!

Have they NO idea whatsoever re prompt Customer Support, are they THAT thick??

Am very familiar with Oil Analysis procedures and I can tell you that the Labs will advise the sender (in this case presumably your Dealer who sent it?) within 24 hrs of the Lab receiving the sample.
In such a case of a bad report, they will usually phone the sample sender to advise of imminent failure (!) due to abnormal wear metals present.

I hope that LRA is not trying to wear you down by deliberately taking a long time to make a decision!

Hang in there, in my opinion you are holding all the good cards.

One final point, I wouldn't think for one moment that LRA will be silly enough to try and 'buy' your silence in return for their help, as they would be well aware such a move is highly illegal!

[joshgtv]

Any further update StephCraig? We had a major problem with the DPF in our D4 at 90K km, LR told us that this should not have happened in a car that had been serviced properly like ours was, and covered most of the $7K repair bill unprompted. My only complaint was that we had to drive a poxy Jaguar SUV as a courtesy car while the D4 was repaired!

[101RRS]

My only complaint was that we had to drive a poxy Jaguar SUV as a courtesy car while the D4 was repaired!

The D4 is a SUV.

[Discodicky]

The D4 is a SUV.

Ah yes, but there are SUV's and then there are Poxy SUV's......[thumbsupbig]

[stuarth44]

I was going to post this on the thread with the L320 engine failure, but thought best to start fresh so as not to complicate the other.

I'm not aware of the numbers of these engines that are failing, and I've not seen a poll or register that indicates such.
I know some on this forum that are extremely unhappy with the situation though, and fair enough..

Would it be appropriate to run a poll on here (are polls allowable or doable) for people to list the car and failures experienced, and also the LACK of failure their car had experienced ?

I think this would be handy for people fighting for warranty/fair expectation, or even looking to buy, to get a realistic picture % wise of failure.

Cheers
James
pm me please, i know a bloke who rebuilds, he is good, fair and well priced, all he does is d3 4, he just quoted me 1000$ for belt change 3l d4

[PerthDisco]

Why does the TDV6 crankshaft snap? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/YqXEmWfjz1s)

[DiscoJeffster]

Why does the TDV6 crankshaft snap? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/YqXEmWfjz1s)

Annnnddddd the reason is, another personal opinion based on - not much.

[PerthDisco]

Annnnddddd the reason is, another personal opinion based on - not much.

Except I put this guy at the Dazza level, someone who sees a lot of them and has pondered the problem from a number of angles. Like the Territory the issue is almost unheard of in Peugeot and Citroen and Jaguars so there’s a common vibe.

[DiscoJeffster]

Except I put this guy at the Dazza level, someone who sees a lot of them and has pondered the problem from a number of angles. Like the Territory the issue is almost unheard of in Peugeot and Citroen and Jaguars so there’s a common vibe.

I like the fact he dismisses the myth of servicing which I’ve always believed. The rest, well there’s little substance to it. The overlap comments I don’t agree with, but I’m no mechanical engineer or metallurgist so I won’t postulate, but I think we all agree, there’s a design flaw that impacts a small percentage of vehicles.

[Didge]

Stephcraig,

I feel for you and it concerns me the obvious reason you joined the forum.

I owned a D2 for 8 yrs and covered around 300k but spent $70,000 all ends up avoiding a catastrophe ie/ just in time repairs and modifications.

I had intention of purchasing a D4 but I'm scared ****less.

They are still the best cars on the road , but not for me.

There were a lot of insults to other brands in this forum such as "exploder" . "handgrenade", "playdough" , and I guess there's a lot of payback in last few years with exploding D4's.

I have a 10yo (by date) 4wd which uses nothing but consumeables and the only thing that breaks on long hard regular trips are a few stupid little plastic catches inside , and that's the way it should be too.

The manufacturers representatives contact me every so often....Imagine LR doing that.

I really hope you get a good result.

Hi RB,
what have you got that only costs consumables? I was seriously thinking about a D4 as a tow car but Stephcraig's story is frightening - I need something that can tow 2t reasonably easily and is reliable enough that it's not going to cost the earth (although they're all expensive, eh?)
cheers Gerald

[350RRC]

Hi RB,
what have you got that only costs consumables? I was seriously thinking about a D4 as a tow car but Stephcraig's story is frightening - I need something that can tow 2t reasonably easily and is reliable enough that it's not going to cost the earth (although they're all expensive, eh?)
cheers Gerald

Isuzu dual cab or their SUV.

A mate had a rok but worried it was in too high a state of tune.

Took his newish Isuzu ute loaded right up to the high country a week or so ago and commented how different the old school low down torque was compared with the rok revving its guts out on the same roads.

Just a thought, DL

[Pippin]

I like the fact he dismisses the myth of servicing which I’ve always believed. The rest, well there’s little substance to it. The overlap comments I don’t agree with, but I’m no mechanical engineer or metallurgist so I won’t postulate, but I think we all agree, there’s a design flaw that impacts a small percentage of vehicles.I watched the video and if it's true that the cranks are breaking in the same place the cause may be simply that too much is being asked of the engine in a twin turbo D4 configuration under load making some of them fail at the weakest point of the crank. The firing order does them no favours with the front 2 cylinders (1 & 4) overlapping by 60 degrees on the power stroke. Nick

[ramblingboy42]

I have a Ford Ranger PX cab/chassis with the same 2.2ltr diesel , same gearbox , same wheelbase and many very similar components as a Defender 130.....funny that .....Ford owned Land Rover.

In the time I've owned it (since new) it has broken a passenger grab handle.....

I do 2 major bushtrips/year and many short local tempting drives , so I'm not exactly easy on it.

I get it serviced by an indy , because they're within walking distance but the Ford dealer is good .

It does not inspire me or make me smile but it does the job so well and so cheaply that I'm going to have a hard time replacing it with true value.

[PerthDisco]

I watched the video and if it's true that the cranks are breaking in the same place the cause may be simply that too much is being asked of the engine in a twin turbo D4 configuration under load making some of them fail at the weakest point of the crank. The firing order does them no favours with the front 2 cylinders (1 & 4) overlapping by 60 degrees on the power stroke. Nick

As mentioned, the crank length is less than a 4 cylinder but you have to get 6 big ends onto it and main bearings so it’s a complex compact shape.

There is actually very little difference internally between the D3 and D4 but a lot more power and torque. I wonder if the cranks are actually different? It has an unenviable job of delivering all that power.

The D4 with 8 speed and minor engine revisions is further optimised from D3 for driveline smoothness.

LR Time on YouTube explains this all well in recent D3 vs D4 comparison.

Weight of the vehicle is definitely a factor in biasing incidents towards LR vehicles.

[loanrangie]

As mentioned, the crank length is less than a 4 cylinder but you have to get 6 big ends onto it and main bearings so it’s a complex compact shape.

There is actually very little difference internally between the D3 and D4 but a lot more power and torque. I wonder if the cranks are actually different? It has an unenviable job of delivering all that power.

The D4 with 8 speed and minor engine revisions is further optimised from D3 for driveline smoothness.

LR Time on YouTube explains this all well in recent D3 vs D4 comparison.

Weight of the vehicle is definitely a factor in biasing incidents towards LR vehicles.

Lots of engines in a similar V6 configuration that put out a lot more power that don't have these issues, the crank is simply not up to the task or poor manufacturing or both.

[scarry]

but I think we all agree, there’s a design flaw that impacts a small percentage of vehicles.

Yes agreed,after looking at that vid,and and reading a heap about the failures,it boils down to poor design.
With a bit of luck thrown in as well,as to which engines fail.

The problem is also too difficult to rectify,without major and probably uneconomical changes to the engine,so the manufacturer just continued on using the engine for quite a few years.

Failures also happened in the D3 2.7 which had a lot less power and torque,but strangely never happened in the 2.7 D4.

The weight would also be the probable reason the Territory didn’t have the issue,although some have failed in the D5,which is quite a bit lighter than D3/4.D5 only ran the 3.0L,which has now been dropped and replaced with an Ingenium LR designed 3.0L.

[Jeffoir]

In the You Tube commentary, Billy Phillips noted that 2018 D4s received a forged crank, made by Ford for the F150. Failure rate is not discussed, however, there was an opinion this forged crank is stronger than the cast version in used previous D4s.
Would it be possible to retrofit a new F150 crank to to a MY13 D4?
Would the group have an an idea on costs for a job like this please?
Thank you and best wishes,
Jeffoir

[PerthDisco]

In the You Tube commentary, Billy Phillips noted that 2018 D4s received a forged crank, made by Ford for the F150. Failure rate is not discussed, however, there was an opinion this forged crank is stronger than the cast version in used previous D4s.
Would it be possible to retrofit a new F150 crank to to a MY13 D4?
Would the group have an an idea on costs for a job like this please?
Thank you and best wishes,
Jeffoir

Ive also seen that the difference with D4s is a bigger bore and different head combustion chamber shape to eek out a tiny bit more displacement (plus another turbo) so I wonder if the cranks are identical between D3 and D4?

If so the F150 would be good option for rebuilders

[Pippin]

Ive also seen that the difference with D4s is a bigger bore and different head combustion chamber shape to eek out a tiny bit more displacement (plus another turbo) so I wonder if the cranks are identical between D3 and D4?

If so the F150 would be good option for rebuilders The Stroke is different on the 3.0 ltr so no the cranks are not the same. Nick

[101RRS]

Billy Phillips noted that 2018 D4s received a forged crank, made by Ford for the F150. s.
Would it be possible to retrofit a new F150 crank to to a MY13 D4?


I doubt that it happened but if it did then those D4s also have the block out of a F150.

The journals on the F150 Powerstroke are larger that the LR 3.0 so the block is different and possibly the conrods - whether a LR3.0 block could be machined to take the Powerstroke crankshaft I dont know, but as standard it does not fit.

[scarry]

In the You Tube commentary, Billy Phillips noted that 2018 D4s received a forged crank, made by Ford for the F150. Failure rate is not discussed, however, there was an opinion this forged crank is stronger than the cast version in used previous D4s.
Would it be possible to retrofit a new F150 crank to to a MY13 D4?
Would the group have an an idea on costs for a job like this please?
Thank you and best wishes,
Jeffoir

D4 finished mid 2016, there were no 2018 D4's.

D5 also had failures of the V6,so i doubt there were any changes.

[Didge]

Thanks 350RRC/ DL. Was toying with the idea of a D4 but I don't have that much money to gamble if things go pear shaped. Am now wondering about how to power up the old 300tdi - will have a poke around here for suggestions/ ideas.
cheers Gerald

[loanrangie]

Thanks 350RRC/ DL. Was toying with the idea of a D4 but I don't have that much money to gamble if things go pear shaped. Am now wondering about how to power up the old 300tdi - will have a poke around here for suggestions/ ideas.
cheers Gerald2.7 D4 is a safer bet , territory motors are cheap if it goes tits up.

[scarry]

2.7 D4 is a safer bet , territory motors are cheap if it goes tits up.

It won’t,haven’t seen one report of a D4 2.7 failing.

But yes a Territory is an option,if done DIY.

If you are going to pay someone,and do all the other stuff that’s needed,may not be economical.