School me on modern home security cameras please.

[Homestar]

One for the collective to assist me with please - I have a camera system on the front of the house already - 5 cameras in total, 3 x HD and 2 older standard low res crap. The base is just one of those cheap systems with a 1TB hard drive in it and a connection to the internet to allow remote viewing from a crappy app.

While the cameras work ok, there are a few things I don’t like that I’m wanting to fix - this could entail a completely new system, and I’m fine with that. The current systems interface is clunky, and the app to view the cameras from my phone is very hit and miss and can take ages to load. I’m sure there are better things out there. All of this has been around for years and I’m looking for a more modern solution.

My list of requirements are as follows:-

- Easy to use App for remote viewing and alarms that is reliable and preferably quite fast - my home internet connection is very good so there’s no limiting factor there.

- Automatic cloud storage for the video - happy to pay for this service, I’m not looking for some cheap, janky solution. Would also prefer a web based system to review video, rewind, snip short parts of the videos out etc if such a thing exists.

- HD cameras that can ideally see a number plate from around 10 meters - my current HD cameras can do what I need here, so at least that, and not a standard or low res offering.

Not sure if all of this exists and my searching on the web mostly brings up similar systems to what I have that don’t seem to have progressed much over the last few years or things with wireless everything that will chew through countless batteries. Happy to wire the cameras back to something, I don’t need one of these ‘stick them on with double sided tape and you’re done’ type thing, but something reliable and preferable simple to use.

Don’t need window or door alarms, etc - just the cameras - I’ll probably want to add a couple more at some stage, so something that can cope with say 9 cameras would work.

Appreciate peoples REAL WORLD input - please don’t just Google some links and post them saying ‘This looks quite good’ - I’ve already done that.

TIA.

[Gav 110]

I do work for a security company over here in the Wild West and they only use Uni View cameras as they record audio as well
5 Mp has more than enough clarity for what you are looking for

Hik Vision is the other brand with a good rep 8 Mp but no audio from what I’ve been told

If you want model numbers etc I can ask the question

Gav

[Bigbjorn]

Also install a good backup system. Two melon head bull terriers are good.

[Milton477]

I have a couple of WYZE cameras dotted about. They would come close to your requirements & are relatively inexpensive.

[Homestar]

Also install a good backup system. Two melon head bull terriers are good.

Given it’s out the front of the house, they’d probably run away and I’d be back to square one... 😆

[BradC]

I'm a bit biassed because CCTV is part of is what I do for a living, so take this with a pinch of salt.

A good start would be what you currently have to see if you can leverage those on a newer recorder. Start with make and model if you can round it up.



- Automatic cloud storage for the video - happy to pay for this service, I’m not looking for some cheap, janky solution. Would also prefer a web based system to review video, rewind, snip short parts of the videos out etc if such a thing exists.

This pretty much rules out any actual security solution and puts you in back the realm of the IoT vendors and their ecosystems.

Pelco (a real CCTV company, but somewhat in decline due to some terrible business decisions in the early 2000s) tried this a few years ago now and found rapidly that nobody that values security takes a cloud solution seriously, so there are no really good solutions to that problem.

If you were willing to compromise on that and have local storage, then a PC based solution like "Blue Iris" would be closer to ticking all your other boxes. Accessed from outside over a VPN closes off most of the gaping security vulnerabilities. I'm personally not a fan of the software, but the price is right.

If you were going to stop at 8 cameras, then Milestone do a free version of their X-Protect software. That's a "real" CCTV system that would pretty much tick all of your boxes.

Of course another option is a Chinese NVR (Hikvision, Dahua, whatever). They'll pretty much work with most ONVIF compliant cameras these days, but their user interface is generally bletcherous and sometimes worse. Load them up with a couple of big drives though and they'll shovel footage to disk pretty reliably.

If you are set on going the "S in IoT stands for Security" route, then the Arlo series gets good reviews as does the eufyCam, but it well and truly ties you into their ecosystem with pretty much no other options. I can't offer any first hand experience on that gear.

The Chinese stuff is the lower middle ground (above Swann and below Axis/Bosch/Panasonic/Pelco/Sony). Personally I have some Hikvision cameras and for domestic use the cheap ones are pretty ok.

Friends don't let friends buy CCTV from Bunnings.

[Arapiles]

I looked into the options like Arlo and Ring and if you care to check ProductReview for reviews of any of those sort of systems you'll be quickly disabused of the idea.

[speleomike]

Hi

I looked into open source security systems soem time ago. This open source one has is established, maintained and covers lots of camers models ZoneMinder - Home (https://zoneminder.com)

For my farm I looked at expensive proprietary systems and cheaper systems like Jaycar have and didn't like any of them. I decided to build my own. I use two Mobotix cameras on my farm (it has audio but its not needed) and I did my own software in Python and web interface. These days I'd use smaller, cheaper Raspberry Pi's with small web cams and a solar panel. More flexible as each is effectively independent.

PS. Lots of cameras do audio as well as video.

Mike

[Tombie]

I looked into the options like Arlo and Ring and if you care to check ProductReview for reviews of any of those sort of systems you'll be quickly disabused of the idea.

Never had a single issue with the Ring set up.

Their customer service response to queries is very prompt.

[Bigbjorn]

Given it’s out the front of the house, they’d probably run away and I’d be back to square one... 😆

You don't use fences and gates down there in Coronaland?

[Homestar]

You don't use fences and gates down there in Coronaland?

Not out the front no, almost universally in any place built in the last 20 years or so. Wouldn’t help me anyway as most of the fence would need to be a gate to get all my cars in and out [emoji16] - there’s a garden bed between 2 driveways - one is 3 metres wide at the street, the other 5 meters wide at the street. Have 5 cars and a Motorhome parked in them.

Remember ‘The Castle’ - “Steve could you move the Camira? I need to get the Torana out so I can get to the Commodore.”

Sort of like that only with Land Rovers, a Jag, Mercedes Sprinter and the 2 work cars.

[Bigbjorn]

Not out the front no, almost universally in any place built in the last 20 years or so. Wouldn’t help me anyway as most of the fence would need to be a gate to get all my cars in and out [emoji16] - there’s a garden bed between 2 driveways - one is 3 metres wide at the street, the other 5 meters wide at the street. Have 5 cars and a Motorhome parked in them.

Remember ‘The Castle’ - “Steve could you move the Camira? I need to get the Torana out so I can get to the Commodore.”

Sort of like that only with Land Rovers, a Jag, Mercedes Sprinter and the 2 work cars.

Brisbane City Council started cracking down on residential blocks with more than one 3 metre driveway or an oversize driveway. The thinking is that these reduce street parking particularly in older areas with lots of parking demand and you can only use one driveway at a time.

[Homestar]

Luckily nothing like that here so far, but our street has maybe 3 or 4 cars actually parked on the street any given day or night, the blocks are a lot larger than newer estates and there’s no demand but the residents so we don’t get the street packed with cars like some places. Most driveways can hold at least 2 cars around here plus a couple in the garage.

[John_D4]

No one has mentioned a Swann UHD multi camera 2tb system. I have an 8 camera UHD wired Swann system and I’ve had no problems. I do also have a couple of Ring cameras but I find their wifi too glitchy unless the router is really close and hence I prefer a wired system

[WhiteD3]

I run six HIKVision HD cameras, five of which are POE and the 6th a wireless "cube". They record to a Synology NAS drive, hidden in the house. The HIK camera quality is good. The email alert works well but is very fiddly to set up. The Synology CCTV application works very well but you do have to pay to licence each camera.

The way I use the system is that if someone enters a prescribed area during the schedule (when we are at work and at night) I get an email with 3 pics. I can then remote in using the HIK (basic but it works) or Synology app (may have improved but I found it too hard to use).

We have an android tablet on the wall for the aircon control. It runs a HIK app so if were here something at night it is simply to see what's happening.

I also have a HIK camera above the front gate at my parents house (they are in their late 80s) which is wifi to their NBN modem. If someone comes to the gate I get an email alert. I can remote in to see if its the neighbour, the paramedics or someone dodgy.

Re the HIK cameras; yes the Chinese govt can watch me mow the lawn and the dog take a crap here and there but if they are that keen than good luck to them.
Re the cloud; my NBN upload speed is 6mbs so cloud storage is a no go for me.

[Homestar]

Thanks for all the input, I have been looking at the Hik cameras and think that's the way I'll go. I have a spare PC I can use for them so will go that way. Software I haven't decided on yet but will wait until I have the cameras and have a play, there's several suggestions to look at now. Big thanks to BradC who's helped me greatly via PM as well. [smilebigeye]

Everyones input has been greatly appreciated, some great info has come up here.

[NavyDiver]

Thanks for all the input, I have been looking at the Hik cameras and think that's the way I'll go. I have a spare PC I can use for them so will go that way. Software I haven't decided on yet but will wait until I have the cameras and have a play, there's several suggestions to look at now. Big thanks to BradC who's helped me greatly via PM as well. [smilebigeye]

Everyones input has been greatly appreciated, some great info has come up here.

I have four outdoor and 5 indoor. Something like this outside (https://www.jaycar.com.au/1080p-ahd-vari-focal-bullet-camera/p/QC8672) ( My work ones cost about $400 each a few years ago- Ouch)

I added a ring at the front door with Covid19. It may be ok at home but I hate it several ways. 1 to much traffic activates it and the battery life suffers ( this may not be an issue at home assuming if no traffic and nothing the moves in the wind near by.

I much prefer wired. P.O.E. makes one cat5/6 cable cheap and reliable. My work ones are not POE and need a very small wire for power to the camera as well as the Cat5 cable.

Off site storage is a requirement I think. I do know a few break ins where the PVR was the first item removed at local business and a home or two. Some of the products such a RING try and get you to use their subscription services. A dropbox or onedrive service you may already have can work.

Your computer or DVR ease of use is the biggest stumbling block. My home POE one is a PITA software is tough to navigate and setting need a LOT of tweaking to get it to work.

I have a new 16 Channel 1080N DVR 5-in-1 Hybrid I am trying to set up to replace my work one. I am struggling while having fun. If you have hair to pull out get one with reliable software and support. Online forums such as whirlpool can be helpful

[Homestar]

Ended up ordering some of these - Hikvision DS-2CD2365G1-I 6MP Outdoor Turret CCTV Camera, H.265+, 30m IR ft Darkfighter Technology – Security Wholesalers (https://www.securitywholesalers.com.au/product/hikvision-ds-2cd2365g1-i-6mp-outdoor-turret-cctv-camera-h-265-30m-ir/) with a 4mm aperture. 4 should cover the front of the house well and I'll add some more if needed. Wanted to go a step up from the budget home cameras as while they are ok, they are just that - ok. Happy to spend the money and get the next level up, without going nuts.

This new system isn't about just getting something working like the last one was, but improving on it which this will do. Not that I've ever needed anything from the cameras more than a couple of incidents across the road I've helped out with some footage, but there is a lot in my yard so want look after it as best I can. The cheaper cambers with the 12 volt and video cable I've found to be unreliable after a couple of years - I have 3 that currently don't work - either the camera itself or the cable got pulled by a bird in the foor, etc and broken it (they are very thin). I'll use those wires to drag in some CAT6 to run the new cameras.

Have settled on using an old PC for storage for the time being - have ordered a couple of 6TB drives to do this, so will see how that goes. The PC is a BIG, heavy old gaming PC - not ideal, but it's not doing anything else at the moment so will do for now and is much harder to steal than the old DVR I have now. It's also in a part of the house where the dogs are, so very unlikely it will get stolen. If it all works ok, I might build a NAS and store that somewhere out of the way as I may end up using the old PC for my video editing again. Specs are a few years old but it can edit 4K if you're patient and 1080 is a snap so it does me ok.

[DiscoDB]

I have a wired 8 camera Uniden full HD system which works well. The Guardian Live app gives good clear images and can be used to play back all the recordings saved to the internal storage. When working from the office I normally have an iPad set up to display the cameras all the time. Have used when overseas with no issues as well.

If I was upgrading I would consider their latest offerings which now comes with thermal imaging motion detection or the equivalent system from Swann.

Having multiple systems is also a good idea - strategically placed Ring cameras with internal batteries are a good back-up and come with cloud storage.

And consider a back up power supply for the main camera and DVR system. They typically run off 12vDC so easy to set up a back up power supply. Plus a lockable server rack hidden in a discrete location is a good way to secure the hard drive.

Of course in Melbourne CCTV systems are defeated now by our mandatory mask wearing - need to put a sign up asking criminals to remove mask before entering property providing they have spent 14 days in quarantine first. D’oh!

[Blade74]

I run six HIKVision HD cameras, five of which are POE and the 6th a wireless "cube". They record to a Synology NAS drive, hidden in the house. The HIK camera quality is good. The email alert works well but is very fiddly to set up. The Synology CCTV application works very well but you do have to pay to licence each camera.

The way I use the system is that if someone enters a prescribed area during the schedule (when we are at work and at night) I get an email with 3 pics. I can then remote in using the HIK (basic but it works) or Synology app (may have improved but I found it too hard to use).

We have an android tablet on the wall for the aircon control. It runs a HIK app so if were here something at night it is simply to see what's happening.

I also have a HIK camera above the front gate at my parents house (they are in their late 80s) which is wifi to their NBN modem. If someone comes to the gate I get an email alert. I can remote in to see if its the neighbour, the paramedics or someone dodgy.

Re the HIK cameras; yes the Chinese govt can watch me mow the lawn and the dog take a crap here and there but if they are that keen than good luck to them.
Re the cloud; my NBN upload speed is 6mbs so cloud storage is a no go for me.

It’s not about the Chinese government watching you it’s about them using them as Trojan horses to access all your personal details internally. [emoji23]

[WhiteD3]

It’s not about the Chinese government watching you it’s about them using them as Trojan horses to access all your personal details internally. [emoji23]

Well, they will be thoroughly bored with the outcome. The most interesting stuff I have on my PC would be the video of my last colonoscopy. HD and full colour. Not to be missed.

[Homestar]

Well, they will be thoroughly bored with the outcome. The most interesting stuff I have on my PC would be the video of my last colonoscopy. HD and full colour. Not to be missed.

Was thinking similar - only stuff on my PC is hours on unedited drone footage and some pics of my Land Rovers - they can knock themselves out. [biggrin]

[BradC]

Of course in Melbourne CCTV systems are defeated now by our mandatory mask wearing - need to put a sign up asking criminals to remove mask before entering property providing they have spent 14 days in quarantine first. D’oh!

I know you are being facetious, but it's not all about the face. In fact in video evidence it's rarely about the face, particularly the bit covered by the mask. A good face is a bonus, but only part of the picture.


It’s not about the Chinese government watching you it’s about them using them as Trojan horses to access all your personal details internally. [emoji23]

Precisely, although it's not all about the Chinese government. These hardwired security holes get penetrated all the time, and they are awesome little linux boxes which make a great launch pad to the rest of the network. Doesn't take much in the way of additional info to facilitate ID theft.

If you have CCTV on your network, just make sure it can't get to the outside world. Don't poke holes in the firewall to allow you to view them from outside. If you need to do that, set up a VPN endpoint and access them through that. Any of the providers that provide "cloud" access to their products rather than allow you to set up a direct connection leave you vulnerable. These providers and manufacturers prioritize features over security, and they get hacked often.

Sure, you probably only have pics of your colonoscopy on you PC, never use it for internet banking, don't have any passwords saved in your browser and use random 16 digit passwords for everything, but I bet there's a medicare number or patient number somewhere along side those colonoscopy videos.

Just try to minimise your attack surface. "Daahnt wurry lad, it'll never 'appen" until it does.

[Blade74]

I know you are being facetious, but it's not all about the face. In fact in video evidence it's rarely about the face, particularly the bit covered by the mask. A good face is a bonus, but only part of the picture.



Precisely, although it's not all about the Chinese government. These hardwired security holes get penetrated all the time, and they are awesome little linux boxes which make a great launch pad to the rest of the network. Doesn't take much in the way of additional info to facilitate ID theft.

If you have CCTV on your network, just make sure it can't get to the outside world. Don't poke holes in the firewall to allow you to view them from outside. If you need to do that, set up a VPN endpoint and access them through that. Any of the providers that provide "cloud" access to their products rather than allow you to set up a direct connection leave you vulnerable. These providers and manufacturers prioritize features over security, and they get hacked often.

Sure, you probably only have pics of your colonoscopy on you PC, never use it for internet banking, don't have any passwords saved in your browser and use random 16 digit passwords for everything, but I bet there's a medicare number or patient number somewhere along side those colonoscopy videos.

Just try to minimise your attack surface. "Daahnt wurry lad, it'll never 'appen" until it does.

Many years ago my Medicare card number which I had for years all of a sudden wasn’t mine and it was someone else’s. I’m not sure how.
Anyway I had to spend a period of time proving that it was mine and had always been mine.
Not sure if that was just a stiff up by Medicare but I know numerous people who have been hacked and had stuff taken digitally.

[DiscoDB]

I know you are being facetious, but it's not all about the face. In fact in video evidence it's rarely about the face, particularly the bit covered by the mask. A good face is a bonus, but only part of the picture.

Fortunately dumb criminals refuse to wear masks - I had one person attempting to break and enter actually stare directly into my cameras oblivious to being recorded.

But smart criminals know how to evade cameras - hence back up systems, storage to the cloud, and power supplies all become important.

[BradC]

But smart criminals know how to evade cameras - hence back up systems, storage to the cloud, and power supplies all become important.

Don't take this the wrong way, but "smart criminals" won't be breaking into your premises, they'll pick the premises that don't have CCTV. A crim isn't going to tear your house apart looking for an NVR. They are going to inadvertently stumble across it and tuck it under their arm.

A UPS? Always a good idea. Cloud CCTV storage? Go your hardest if it'll make you feel better, just remember to take into account that you've now taken your attack surface from "exposed to a local gronk" to "exposed to any bored teenager across the globe". This is a small introduction, although as an "ethical" site, they manually filter the published cameras to rule out anything domestic or sensitive. Insecam - World biggest online cameras directory (https://www.insecam.org/)

Frankly if you were really concerned about NVR theft you'd be far better using cameras that also had internal storage. You store 30 days on the NVR and 4 days in the camera.

We did a site a few years ago where they record"quite a few" cameras for over 60 days and wanted "full redundancy". That was "quite a bit" of storage. When we looked into the actual risks it was ascertained that ~3 days redundancy was enough as the risk they were trying to mitigate was someone taking out their primary storage. All that was required was enough redundant archive to figure out who did it and how they did it.

Decent cameras have SD slots and can record to that in addition to the NVR. Sandisk now make some nice 1TB CCTV grade SD cards. That'd buy you nearly a month of archive on a 1080p camera.

[WhiteD3]

Decent cameras have SD slots and can record to that in addition to the NVR. Sandisk now make some nice 1TB CCTV grade SD cards. That'd buy you nearly a month of archive on a 1080p camera.

So part of my setup as posted earlier is a camera above my elderly parent's front gate. This camera, being remote from my home and NAS drive, records to a micro SD in the camera. It emails me pics of anyone coming up to or through the gate.

[DiscoDB]

Don't take this the wrong way, but "smart criminals" won't be breaking into your premises, they'll pick the premises that don't have CCTV.

That’s certainly the objective.

[Homestar]

Yeah, hopefully the cameras out the front make someone else’s place an easier target. Main reason I want to upgrade is because we have drug dealers near by - nice lads, they’re good for a lift of heavy things and happy to have a beer or two with them which means they leave me alone but there’s always a steady procession of traffic coming and going which I don’t know and I’m more wary of that.

Have lived near 2 lots of dealers - actually both really easy to live near neighbours as they don’t like drawing attention to themselves and generally just out there to have a good time.

1st lot I lived next door to when I was younger and, well let’s say much fun was had... [emoji56]

Would take them both any day over some other neighbours I’ve had.