Multiple warning lights - on D4's Fraser Island debut

[chrisevz1337]

Hi guys,

After some advice - took the D4 (MY2015 TDV6, 110k) on it's maiden trip to Fraser Island last week with family (including chief Toyota fan-boy, my father-in-law) and after initially tearing up tracks with ease on 19" Cooper Zeon's at 19 PSI, 5km out from the western beaches, I get multiple amber warning lights appear on dash.

At the time, we were in off-road height mode, sand mode, high-range with DSC switched off, and without warning, dash shows three errors; 1.) Caution: Brake Assist disabled, 2.) Car reduced to standard suspension height for safety and 3.) DSC disabled, drive with caution (note: the dash light for when DSC is active remained on, indicating error). At this point, it fell out of sand mode too - and gave me no ability to select off-road programs, or change suspension height - features were unavailable. Continued driving for ~5km to beaches in effectively motorway settings before getting to camp site.

At this point - I'm thinking worse case scenario, electrical failure, and potential tow recovery off the Island, alongside serious toyota fan-club abuse. Fortunately, turned off/turned on engine, reboot computers and no issue - all modes delectable and no issue for rest of trip.

I think the biggest thing that concerned me was uncertainty as to whether DSC was on - and implications when on sand. Car probably had enough clearance on those tracks even at standard height, but definitely knocked my confidence.

Have any of you come across this, or could perhaps suggest what may cause it? At the time, I wondered if I'd dinged the compressor and this enabled some kind of safety feature process lowering the car etc...probably also highlights the need for IID tool...

Chris

[DieselLSE]

Off the top of my head I'd say either the brakes and/or the centre diff and/or the transmission were overheating and the car was simply calling time out. It is preferable to use low range in sand; far less stress on the transmission.

[scarry]

Gap tool is what you need for sure,particularly if you are going to use the vehicle for touring,and are going to keep it for a while.

Probably something to do with a wheel sensor,suspension sensor,or something similar.

May not happen again.

[Bulletman]

Just reading between the lines, what speed were you doing ? wondering if the car lowered because you were exceeding the off road height speed limit. Its never happened to me so unsure if the car does everything you described.

Glad to hear it reset itself with the Toyota faithful present.

Bulletman

[scarry]

Just reading between the lines, what speed were you doing ? wondering if the car lowered because you were exceeding the off road height speed limit. Its never happened to me so unsure if the car does everything you described.

Bulletman

No,it just Bongs,message on dash to let you know it is going to lower.Then it lowers,if you don't reduce speed.
No dash lights come up.

[BobD]

Plus 1 for using low range. I never drive in sand in high range to reduce load on the transmission and to properly enable all of the off road smarts, which activate when the car is in low range.

[letherm]

My first response would always be to turn the engine off for a few minutes and start again. Can clear a lot of problems and as said they may never show again. Gremlins :)

Martin

[INter674]

I support the view that the auto or the tcase has overheated..essy to do on sand. It's gone into life saving mode unlike Toyotas that would probably simply self-destruct☺

[libertyts]

I'm going to state it as well, low-range in the sand. Not just for D3/4's. Any 4wd. I know it is taught in some off-road classes and videos to use high-range in a low gear, simply put, they are just plain wrong! It doesn't take mechanical sympathy into consideration at all!

When are you ever going to go over ~40km/h (I can't remember now what speed the bloody D4 gets up to in low/6th... Only my poor little D1. Haha) in the soft sand? If you are, you are going to break many, many things over time...

I get it, on Fraser the main beach "highway" is like a road. That's fine. Get onto the hard stuff, stop/slow for a moment, pop it into high and go. Getting off the hard? Stop, low, go. It takes seconds to do and will ultimately save you thousands $ over the years.

On top of all that, once you're in low, you have sooooo much torque on tap now! It's a beautiful thing.

Sorry for the rant, but I have seen high-range mentioned in sand driving difficulty threads so many times this year it's getting to me.

I would also lean towards overheating being your issue. Question though... Had you recently crossed through one of the creeks? Maybe the alternator got a little drowning or you have some wiring (height sensors, ABS, compressor wiring, etc.) that might be wearing and the water closed a circuit it didn't expect to be closed. It's a hard one to diagnose without knowing the exact scenario and the codes that had been thrown. Scan tools are your best friend on any modern 4wd these days. :)

[scarry]

I support the view that the auto or the tcase has overheated..essy to do on sand. It's gone into life saving mode unlike Toyotas that would probably simply self-destruct☺

Or a PAj,that cuts out and won't go anywhere until it cools down,not fun down near the water when the tide is coming up.[bigsad]

Overheating the auto on a D4 brings up other fault codes and warnings on the dash read out,and reduces the use of some gears.

Turning the engine on and off resets it once its cooled down.

The best way to let it cool is put the vehicle in neutral and let it idle,don't turn it off.

It normally doesn't cause suspension faults.

[libertyts]

Or a PAj,that cuts out and won't go anywhere until it cools down,not fun down near the water when the tide is coming up.[bigsad]

Overheating the auto on a D4 brings up other fault codes and warnings on the dash read out,and reduces the use of some gears.

Turning the engine on and off resets it once its cooled down.

The best way to let it cool is put the vehicle in neutral and let it idle,don't turn it off.

It doesn't cause suspension faults.I wouldn't say it "doesn't" throw suspensions faults. It probably isn't meant to, but that's not to say it won't. Brake switches throw gearbox and suspension faults... I had a fuel rail pressure sensor cause gearbox faults amongs others and for months no fuel related codes at all.

With the way the computers are chained together in the CAN setup, you can get some pretty funky codes displayed. Makes troubleshooting a fun little game...

[scarry]

I wouldn't say it "doesn't" throw suspensions faults. It probably isn't meant to, but that's not to say it won't. Brake switches throw gearbox and suspension faults... I had a fuel rail pressure sensor cause gearbox faults amongs others and for months no fuel related codes at all.

With the way the computers are chained together in the CAN setup, you can get some pretty funky codes displayed. Makes troubleshooting a fun little game...

Correct,just edited my post.
I know,with a D4,anything is 'possible'[bighmmm]

FWIW,i have used high range at times in very soft sand,with no issues at all,particularly where a lot of speed and momentum is needed.

But in the slower soft stuff,its low only.

In the D2 it was not uncommon to see the auto overheat warning light come on in very hot weather,soft sand,and low range.

[libertyts]

Correct,just edited my post.
I know,with a D4,anything is 'possible'[bighmmm]

FWIW,i have used high range at times in very soft sand,with no issues at all,particularly where a lot of speed and momentum is needed.

But in the slower soft stuff,its low only.

In the D2 it was not uncommon to see the auto overheat warning light come on in very hot weather,soft sand,and low range.Haha, all good bud. Just thought I'd clarify for those that haven't yet experienced the fun of tracing weird fault codes. :)

[Graeme]

All those faults point to a wheel speed sensor fault but only reading the codes would correctly identify the cause.

[libertyts]

All those faults point to a wheel speed sensor fault but only reading the codes would correctly identify the cause.That's the one I was missing! I knew there was something I'd forgotten and I could think of what it was for the life of me.

This is why we love ya' Graeme! Hahaha

[Graeme]

Probably something to do with a wheel sensor,......suspension sensor,or something similar.

May not happen again.
Singled-out from this post.

[libertyts]

Fair enough, missed that in scarry's post too. :)

[Turtle60]

All those faults point to a wheel speed sensor fault but only reading the codes would correctly identify the cause.

plus 1 for that. Could be damage to cable or connectors are water damaged. Needs a diagnostic tool on it. Search “three Amigos” fault. It’s a show stopper. But cheap fix.

[josh.huber]

Brake light switch can cause that. A quick search on here you'll get the part number. A quick reset makes it go away. Occasionally I set it off normal driving with work boots on. Having the brake pedal on and driving will do it. But also liked Graham said, wheel speed etc. I would expect any sort of over heat to give a warning as it's an "event" not a "fault"

[chrisevz1337]

I'm going to state it as well, low-range in the sand. Not just for D3/4's. Any 4wd. I know it is taught in some off-road classes and videos to use high-range in a low gear, simply put, they are just plain wrong! It doesn't take mechanical sympathy into consideration at all!

When are you ever going to go over ~40km/h (I can't remember now what speed the bloody D4 gets up to in low/6th... Only my poor little D1. Haha) in the soft sand? If you are, you are going to break many, many things over time...

I get it, on Fraser the main beach "highway" is like a road. That's fine. Get onto the hard stuff, stop/slow for a moment, pop it into high and go. Getting off the hard? Stop, low, go. It takes seconds to do and will ultimately save you thousands $ over the years.

On top of all that, once you're in low, you have sooooo much torque on tap now! It's a beautiful thing.

Sorry for the rant, but I have seen high-range mentioned in sand driving difficulty threads so many times this year it's getting to me.

I would also lean towards overheating being your issue. Question though... Had you recently crossed through one of the creeks? Maybe the alternator got a little drowning or you have some wiring (height sensors, ABS, compressor wiring, etc.) that might be wearing and the water closed a circuit it didn't expect to be closed. It's a hard one to diagnose without knowing the exact scenario and the codes that had been thrown. Scan tools are your best friend on any modern 4wd these days. :)


Thanks Chris/all.

To answer some earlier questions - on Fraser Beaches/highways we were in normal height mode, no driving program, high-range...effectively highway mode at 75km.

On inland tracks, where the issue happened - we never really exceeded 35-40km, so too slow to trigger the auto-height adjustment.

That said - good feedback re: overheating. I have to say I was surprised the extent at which Sand mode held on to low gears - audibly stressing the engine. I found myself often paddle shifting up through gears to make it less taxing on engine where clearly the vehicle was handling softer sand fine, so that advice deffo aligns.

Can I ask, for longer softer sand stretches, would you often sit in low range - but perhaps higher gears (3/4?) when doing 40kms on tracks etc?

Noted on the creek crossings potentially shorting electrics/potential wheel speed sensor implications. Do the fault code exist retrospectively if I were to investigate over the coming weeks?

Chris

[josh.huber]

Holding onto gears, while it will rev harder isn't stressing the engine to much, it also helps keep it cool as the extra revs move more oil through the box for cooling and lubrication, your engine also is more effective at cooling with the higher rpm range.
The big advantage of the higher revs is it allows for "torque droop" so when you hit something soft the engine will fall into its power range and keep driving without the need for a shift and effectivity bog the vehicle.
When I'm on sand I just leave it in low range, but like you when I get on a stretch I bump it up a couple to save fuel. As soon as I see something that may slow me down I slide it back to Auto and let it make it's choices.

[libertyts]

Mate, I've gone days on end staying in low range. Never be afraid to use it. It's arguably your biggest advantage over the soft-roaders. You're not stressing things more in low-range, in fact you are doing the complete opposite!

Something to remember, low-range isn't just for charging through mud or rock crawling. It's a torque multiplier that you should use whenever you need more torque and/or more control. Plenty of people chuck it into low-range to reverse their boat/trailer/caravan into a steep, tight spot.

As for it reving a bit higher in sand mode due to holding gears, nothing really wrong with that. Don't go sitting it on the redline the whole day (unless you like buying diesel?), but sitting higher in the rev range is fine. As Josh said, it can help keep you in the sweet spot when you hit something a little softer. If it's staying fairly consistent for a while, change it up.

Remember, the vehicle can't see what it's going to drive on, it's best guess from what it's currently doing. Sometimes you have to give it a helping hand. Pretty intelligent things these D3/4's, but they still need a driver. :)

All of that said, the best advice I can give... Keep wheeling, learning and enjoying that Disco, you'll have the time of your life!

[scarry]

And there were mutterings on here a while ago that an Amarock with an extra low first gear in the 8 speed auto will negate the need for a two speed TC.
Biggest load of garbage i have ever heard.

The short run to our carport,off the side of our main driveway is very steep.
I usually use low range to reverse the car up it,particularly on cold start.
Does it so much easier.

[The Mighty Range Rover]

Thanks Chris/all.

Can I ask, for longer softer sand stretches, would you often sit in low range - but perhaps higher gears (3/4?) when doing 40kms on tracks etc?

Chris

I normally keep it in low range for all of the inland stuff at Fraser. I rarely used Sand Mode except for the entrances/exits of the beach where it is quite soft. I've found that Mud/Ruts is a good compromise between highway mode and sand mode when driving on sandy tracks at 30-50kph. Much smoother than sitting there at 3500RPM all day on a flat, hard section of the track.

[INter674]

With an auto labouring the engine bumps up the egts real fast. Its a disadvantage to a manual where you can shift down a gear to raise revs which drops egts straight away. However with an 8 speed you are better off cause it will shift to a lower gear sooner than say a 5 speed which will hold onto the gear longer and raise egts fast.

Labouring and engine eg high range on sand and manual shifting the auto to drop revs is just wrong..it may save fuel but will wreck an engine and g box fast.

[libertyts]

No one suggested running in high-range and labouring the engine... Only that it's acceptable to knock it up a gear two to get the revs down to ~2000RPM - 2500RPM instead of sitting at 4000RPM when you are on reasonably hard, consistent sand.

Labouring an engine with an auto is no different to labouring an engine with a manual.

As for a manual being better than an auto because you can change gears... I'm not sure I understand the logic there. If you are still living in a world where manually shifty an auto will break the gearbox (this is at best misleading, at worse a complete lie) then you need to come into the present where manually shifting a modern auto is not only perfectly safe, but also encouraged in certain scenarios.

I am a lover of manual gearboxes. I enjoy driving with them in most cases. That being said, I'm never going to claim that they are superior to an auto in most off-road situations, because in this era it just isn't true.

[PerthDisco]

I would definitely replace the brake light switch at that age & kms just as a preventative measure.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200927/b523c9fe0dbf2d6ed776dfc00c7a7d5c.jpg

I was in the Ledge Point and Lancelin dunes yesterday just after super heavy rainfall. Tyres at 22psi and soon found that the top wet layer filled the tread like mud and below that was soft dry powder. Double trouble.

Drove too slowly into a soft trap and sunk thinking it would be hard like a highway after rain. A quick dig and rock crawl got me out and I stayed in low range after that taking a bit more attention. All easy again.

After conquering a peak or tough section at high load high rpms I always leave the engine running and never shut down when exiting to check the view. You can smell the car is so roasting hot even after a quick burst although the temp never shifts off the middle. That turbo/s will be red hot.

[101RRS]

The fact that all the lights etc went away after switching off indicates was nothing really to worry about - communications failure and then cascading faults - unless something consistently comes back then just move on and put this down to experience.

Garry

[rar110]

Correct,just edited my post.
I know,with a D4,anything is 'possible'[bighmmm]

FWIW,i have used high range at times in very soft sand,with no issues at all,particularly where a lot of speed and momentum is needed.

But in the slower soft stuff,its low only.

In the D2 it was not uncommon to see the auto overheat warning light come on in very hot weather,soft sand,and low range.

Just my experience. Getting on to the beach and to the hard stuff can be a lot easier than getting from the hard stuff to off the beach, as it’s a little up hill.

I’ve managed to get away with both in high range in the tdv8 L322, but low range getting off the breach is a good idea.

[DiscoMick]

Suggest you pick a sweet spot in the revs and use the gears to keep the engine around those revs. Low range is there to be used.
If you think it's getting too hot, find a firm patch, stop and let it idle for a few minutes to cool down.
Try to stay in firm wheel tracks and avoid soft sand. Had you lowered your tyre pressures?

[glttce]

Hi guys,

After some advice - took the D4 (MY2015 TDV6, 110k) on it's maiden trip to Fraser Island last week with family (including chief Toyota fan-boy, my father-in-law) and after initially tearing up tracks with ease on 19" Cooper Zeon's at 19 PSI, 5km out from the western beaches, I get multiple amber warning lights appear on dash.

At the time, we were in off-road height mode, sand mode, high-range with DSC switched off, and without warning, dash shows three errors; 1.) Caution: Brake Assist disabled, 2.) Car reduced to standard suspension height for safety and 3.) DSC disabled, drive with caution (note: the dash light for when DSC is active remained on, indicating error). At this point, it fell out of sand mode too - and gave me no ability to select off-road programs, or change suspension height - features were unavailable. Continued driving for ~5km to beaches in effectively motorway settings before getting to camp site.

At this point - I'm thinking worse case scenario, electrical failure, and potential tow recovery off the Island, alongside serious toyota fan-club abuse. Fortunately, turned off/turned on engine, reboot computers and no issue - all modes delectable and no issue for rest of trip.

I think the biggest thing that concerned me was uncertainty as to whether DSC was on - and implications when on sand. Car probably had enough clearance on those tracks even at standard height, but definitely knocked my confidence.

Have any of you come across this, or could perhaps suggest what may cause it? At the time, I wondered if I'd dinged the compressor and this enabled some kind of safety feature process lowering the car etc...probably also highlights the need for IID tool...

Chris

Chris,

I have taken three different Discoveries onto Fraser - I found that the sand mode on the two Series 3's (TDV6 6-speed) wasn't a big help, but I didn't have any issues with traveling across the island with the suspension raised, although I would normally return to normal height as soon as I could.

I found the sand mode on the Series 4 much better, and, even though the revs were higher, the fuel consumption was less due to the motor being in the peak torque band. I use sand mode whenever I am traveling in sand. I did have an identical experience to yours with my first Series 4 (SDV6 6-speed) when traveling across to Wathumba and I has left the the suspension raised. A restart and everything was OK - I just put it down to the compressor overheating from keeping the vehicle higher. I wouldn't be concerned. As for your Toyota lover - how does he get the sand out from underneath when he is bellied out? At least you can lift the vehicle to clear away underneath!

Geoff

[Dagilmo]

I just put it down to the compressor overheating from keeping the vehicle higher.

Others with more knowledge will come along to correct me if I'm wrong.....I don't think the compressor is 'working' to keep the vehicle at off-road height. It will pump up the air springs, close the valves and only adjust small amounts for self leveling adjustments, which would be the same as at normal height. You wouldn't be putting any more stress on the compressor leaving it at offroad height. However, raising and lowering will work the compressor more.

[DiscoJeffster]

Others with more knowledge will come along to correct me if I'm wrong.....I don't think the compressor is 'working' to keep the vehicle at off-road height. It will pump up the air springs, close the valves and only adjust small amounts for self leveling adjustments, which would be the same as at normal height. You wouldn't be putting any more stress on the compressor leaving it at offroad height. However, raising and lowering will work the compressor more.

Correct

[101RRS]

Yes certainly correct, but if it has been going up and down due to dropping down due to speed and then being raised then it will start to protest - that is why I like LLAMS select onroad height and LLAMS at +50 and leave it there - just raising to offroad +50 for really tight bits.

Garry