Grounded pilots push for retraining as fire bombers

[Old Farang]

Coronavirus-grounded commercial pilots push to retrain as firebombers as bushfire season heats up


Coronavirus-grounded commercial pilots push to retrain as firebombers as bushfire season heats up - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-17/grounded-commercial-pilots-want-to-fly-bushfire-water-bombers/12775232)

Hmm, I am not endorsed for this demanding job, but I think it may involve a bit more than a few hours around the block and just and addon endorsement!


The National Aerial Firefighting Centre (NAFC) coordinates arrangements across the country for combating bushfires.
Its general manager Richard Alder said the training for aerial firefighting is intensive and can take years to complete.

"This is not a set of skills that can be rushed," he said.

While I certainty sympathise with skilled pilots being out of work, this is nothing like learning to drive a combine harvester, as some of them are doing!

[Eevo]

whree are they getting the extra planes from?

[JDNSW]

I seem to remember that a low level endorsement is quite a few hours - and firefighting is a whole new game on top of that, especially flying a large aircraft.

While it is possible that some airline pilots already have crop dusting experience, this would in most cases be a bit rusty and need some brushing up.

And then there is the question of where the qualified instructors would come from - seems to me that all of those would be employed to actually fly the planes themselves.

[Hugh Jars]

It was a fanciful statement made with not a lot of forethought.

While I would love to be able to belt around in a 737 water bomber doing good things for the community, the reality is that to have an Australian dedicated fleet really needs you to have them flying all year round - just like Coulson do by shifting assets around the world. You can't have them sitting around for over 6 months of the year outside fire season. That costs money - and lots of it. I don't think our government (of either persuasion) would be capable of running such an operation successfully. At the moment it would be better (and more cost effective) to use existing contractors and let them assume the financial risk, IMO.

There are plenty of affected pilots with low-level ratings (probably un-current) that might be suitable, as these ratings are perpetual and don't expire. Not only would you need to get current, but you need to stay current in order to be safe. That means regular flying on such tasks. I'm rated to fly formation, but I wouldn't race out tomorrow and participate a formation flying display[bigsmile]

I remember reading a fluff piece circulating the net about pressing our old P-3's into service as fire fighters. They were retired for several reasons - one of them being that the ones that are gone have no life left in their airframes, hence are only good for scrap. Plus, they are also horrendously expensive to run. Government funding (if any) would be better spent on more suitable assets.

Coulson recently advertised for a chief pilot or check pilot on the 737 in Australia. Perhaps they are looking at formalising more permanent operations under an Australian AOC?

[Gordie]

Not to mention the extra cost of a flight attendant and coffee machine for each water bomber. [wink11]

[Old Farang]

Not to mention the extra cost of a flight attendant and coffee machine for each water bomber. [wink11]

Don't laugh! I cannot find it just now, but I think that it was last fire season when a B737 Combo aircraft was deployed here. From memory there are around 14 seats in the cabin along with the tank. What ever the number of seats it was, CASA would not approve it for use to carry the full complement of fire fighters BECAUSE there was no flight attendant!

[Old Farang]

Don't laugh! I cannot find it just now, but I think that it was last fire season when a B737 Combo aircraft was deployed here. From memory there are around 14 seats in the cabin along with the tank. What ever the number of seats it was, CASA would not approve it for use to carry the full complement of fire fighters BECAUSE there was no flight attendant!

There is mention of it at the following, but it is quoting 70 seats:

737 Archives - Fire Aviation (https://fireaviation.com/tag/737/)


October 7, 2019 (https://fireaviation.com/2019/10/07/flight-attendants-on-an-air-tanker/)CategoriesFixed wing (https://fireaviation.com/category/fixed-wing/)Tags737 (https://fireaviation.com/tag/737/)3 Commentson Flight attendants on an air tanker (https://fireaviation.com/2019/10/07/flight-attendants-on-an-air-tanker/#comments)
Authorities in Australia are considering authorizing a 737 air tanker to carry up to 70 passengers

Flight Attendants
“We are required to have three flight attendants in the airplane due to the number of seats,” said Britt Coulson Vice President of Coulson Aviation. “We are still looking at options of who we are going to use to fulfill those positions.”

Passenger and baggage screening
One other detail that has to be worked out is whether the passengers and baggage are required to be screened by electronic devices or security personnel.

[101RRS]

Would be for safety reasons rather than serving coffee reasons.

[Eevo]

Would be for safety reasons rather than serving coffee reasons.

lack of coffee is a big safety risk.

[W&KO]

whree are they getting the extra planes from?

Thinking the same......and I don’t recall reading that there was never enough pilots to fly the fire fighting planes.

Know the government they’ll spend a bomb of training pilot that’ll probably never get a seat.

[Hugh Jars]

There is mention of it at the following, but it is quoting 70 seats:

737 Archives - Fire Aviation (https://fireaviation.com/tag/737/)


October 7, 2019 (https://fireaviation.com/2019/10/07/flight-attendants-on-an-air-tanker/)CategoriesFixed wing (https://fireaviation.com/category/fixed-wing/)Tags737 (https://fireaviation.com/tag/737/)3 Commentson Flight attendants on an air tanker (https://fireaviation.com/2019/10/07/flight-attendants-on-an-air-tanker/#comments)
Authorities in Australia are considering authorizing a 737 air tanker to carry up to 70 passengers

Flight Attendants
“We are required to have three flight attendants in the airplane due to the number of seats,” said Britt Coulson Vice President of Coulson Aviation. “We are still looking at options of who we are going to use to fulfill those positions.”

Passenger and baggage screening
One other detail that has to be worked out is whether the passengers and baggage are required to be screened by electronic devices or security personnel.




I remember paxing on the 'new' 747-400 from Avalon to Tulla. There was about 50 of us on the plane, but there were paxing pilots manning the doors.
We often ferry without cabin crew, and have to arm/disarm the doors ourselves. We get re-certified yearly with the cabin crew. With fire aircraft doing such ad-hoc work it would be a logistical nightmare to get non-pilots certified on doors. I wonder what the story is in the USA?

Australian screening is a facade to make the public feel safe. Technically, with greater than 50 seats pax need to be screened. However, rules seem to be interpreted to suit the government and the politics of the day. I did a charter recently with 180 pax. They were not required to be screened, and they were coming from Covid hotspots, but no, no quarantine needed in the Fascist State... The flight and cabin crew still had to be security screened and comply with quarantine laws. Go figure...

Oh, It's a blessing in disguise that they don't have coffee machines on the planes. Anyone who's tasted airline coffee will attest to its foul taste [bigsmile][bigsmile]

[Fourgearsticks]

Every fire season there are as many aircraft and qualified pilots not being used as there are working fires. The system is working at full capacity now with the LAT and VLAT aircraft that are now used on fires. The unutilized ones I talk of are 802's and AG pilots qualified on fires.

[Old Farang]

Every fire season there are as many aircraft and qualified pilots not being used as there are working fires. The system is working at full capacity now with the LAT and VLAT aircraft that are now used on fires. The unutilized ones I talk of are 802's and AG pilots qualified on fires.

Not sure, but I would wager that there may be a shortage of helicopter pilots, long before fixed wing pilots.

[superquag]

I thought there was a fleet or three of 737's parked at various desert locations... Just delete a certain item of automation and re-certify as water-bombers.... to be flown by enthusiastic (grateful?) hands - ON pilots.... not 'aircraft - systems IT' consultants ! [biggrin]

(I don't recall the recently - retired Martin -MARS being equipped with the above .... and it lived long enough to be put out to pasture. Or "Lake".

[superquag]

"...Oh, It's a blessing in disguise that they don't have coffee machines on the planes. Anyone who's tasted airline coffee will attest to its foul taste..."

- Half a dozen seats and it would be worthwhile to install a REAL coffee-machine... even a $1k Breville combo.
Coffee is essential for morale and Pilot health.[bigrolf]