This must be embarrassing for Land Rover

[ozscott]

Our Brand New Land Rover Defender Was Fixed! But Then It Broke Again... - YouTube (https://youtu.be/zBVZyvfiqKw)

In addition to the electrical issues that some new Defenders have in the UK this Dad and Son team love their LR's and had a great run from a D2 and a good run also from a D3. Their New Defender isn't going so well unfortunately. It is just so unacceptable to have check engine light issues and camera issues etc straight out of the box. The dealers seem to be uncertain as to.the reason for the engine warning...swapping around coil packs...

Such a pitty.

Cheers

[Slunnie]

Oh well, they say never buy the first or new cars.

[ozscott]

Yep Simon. I wouldn't buy the first either.

Cheers

[101RRS]

This Defender is going to go the same way as the Freelander 1 - a great car whose reputation was crippled by poor serviceability aspects of just the 1.8 petrol engine - the bad name tarnished everything.

Similar has happened with the D5 which now has a stink about it.

The same will happen with the Defender if they do not jump on these silly little reliability issues - the word is already spreading and will soon kill is reputation.

[Red90]

I’m not sure how this can be a surprise. Land Rover has nearly the worst reliability rating in the world. It is rare to meet a new owner that has not had multiple failures during warranty.

[tc_s1]

Oh well, they say never buy the first or new cars.Further evidence that they should have gone for a 68th year model, rather than a first. [emoji16]

[scarry]

It really is unbelievable,isn’t it?

After all the reliability surveys,reputation over the years,it’s still going on?

Other manufacturers have these problems sorted,but some seem to continue with them.

I have had LR’s for the last 21 yrs,and run a fleet of Jap/Thailand commercial vehicles for the last 30 yrs,and from my experience,there is just no comparison in the reliability,service costs,fit and finish,etc,etc,between the two.

Sure,the D4,which was mainly Ford,was better,but it still isn’t up to the standard of others on the market.

This is one reason we have replaced the D4 with another brand.
Yes,you guessed it,the one the sheep buy.
After looking around for a long time,and wanting a large 4WD wagon,new,and suited us,there was no other option.

[W&KO]

Bit early to be making big calls.....

Engine light on only one to date? Could be serious but looks like it wasn’t and it been fixed.

Camera not working isn’t a big deal.

[Red90]

I’m confused as to why people think this is any different to every other vehicle they make.

[Tombie]

I’m confused as to why people think this is any different to every other vehicle they make.

I’m confused why people think this is different to any other brand with a new model release.

[101RRS]

I’m confused why people think this is different to any other brand with a new model release.

I agree but the **** seems to stick better to a Land Rover.

[ozscott]

Bit early to be making big calls.....

Engine light on only one to date? Could be serious but looks like it wasn’t and it been fixed.

Camera not working isn’t a big deal.Not not only one. Quite a few based on
YouTube videos by new owners and the LR tragic forums in the UK - if those owners are reporting its a worry.

Cheers

[ozscott]

I’m confused why people think this is different to any other brand with a new model release.Good point except the little petrol (like the one in the video above) have been in use in other LR and Jag platforms for several years. Also LR carry on more than anyone else with the PR machine bull**** about their extensive product torture testing and yet the consumer is still the real product tester.

Cheers

[scarry]

I’m confused why people think this is different to any other brand with a new model release.

Getting off topic slightly,and not the vehicle that you were referring to,

I wouldn't call the latest D5 a new model release.

I looked at it extensively to replace the D4.

Three years down the track,there are still silly stupid issues,one after another.You don't have too look far on UK forums to find out all about it.

Admittedly,this wasn't the only reason we didn't purchase one.

Maybe the link in these two vehicles is them being built in Slovakia?

Its a shame really as LR do produce some well designed and engineered vehicles.

[Tombie]

I think it may be more to do with modern demands on vehicle OS.

Sometimes it just seems to go wrong [emoji58]


Remember Toyota smashed the 100 series across the globe, and then had thousands of engine and suspension problems - often catastrophic failures.
For a company that size, full of spin on being unbreakable, that’s some horrendous outcomes.


The most improved player in the game has been Mitsubishi in recent years. And they’re multitudes of funding better off than LR

[discorevy]

Sure,the D4,which was mainly Ford,was better

Lol, pretty much every part I have to replace on these, inc RRs and D3, Defender Puma etc, that have very early failures are stamped FoMoCo.
About 20 years ago the Ford agent workshop in Broome I worked at was swamped with warranty failures .
Ford has never been renowned for quality, this is well known in the trade.

[Red90]

I’m confused why people think this is different to any other brand with a new model release.

That is not apples to apples. Most other brands build vehicles that are reliable and do not fail even with new models. I've never had a new vehicle with a failure during warranty, ever. 100% of people I know that have purchased a new Land Rover in the last 10 years have had multiple warranty claims. The average being four per year.

[scarry]

Sometimes it just seems to go wrong [emoji58]


Remember Toyota smashed the 100 series across the globe, and then had thousands of engine and suspension problems - often catastrophic failures.
For a company that size, full of spin on being unbreakable, that’s some horrendous outcomes.


LR

Some seem to forget,there was a test by LR of the new D3,in its day,in East Africa.This was to show the world what a great vehicle it was.

After one shallow creek crossing they all had issues,some broke down completely .There were also numerous other problems.

I know someone that was invited to the release,he still can’t believe what actually happened and the issues they had.

He was invited by the local LR dealer,as he ran a fleet of LR’s at the time.His family ran a game park.

Now he runs a fleet of another brand,apart from an old Seires 2,which spends most of its time in the shed.

So it’s not what someone’s daughter,uncle or brother said,this actually happened.

To LR’s credit,they did do numerous improvements to the model,over the next few years.And then the D4 came along and was a further improvement.

[Tombie]

That is not apples to apples. Most other brands build vehicles that are reliable and do not fail even with new models. I've never had a new vehicle with a failure during warranty, ever. 100% of people I know that have purchased a new Land Rover in the last 10 years have had multiple warranty claims. The average being four per year.

You’re a lucky man.

I’ve had new Fords, Holden’s, Toyota’s, Mazda, Nissan’s and all have had something sorted during warranty.

Only vehicle that didn’t have any claims during warranty was the Isuzu - back then it was so basic there wasn’t anything to produce a claim!

The D4 has been the best of anything, only claims being a dash squeak and a seat bolster (and I was a big guy so likely my fault).

In all fairness, none have left me sitting on the side of the road during warranty.

[DiscoDB]

The only warranty issue I had with the D2 from new was I got the cup holder stuck open. Thankfully it didn’t get stuck closed else that would have been a show stopper.

[101RRS]

That is not apples to apples. Most other brands build vehicles that are reliable and do not fail even with new models.

You must live in the land of fairies where all is good - of other brands build new vehicles that fail and have issues - look at Toyota Class action here on failures of new vehicles - law suits and prosecutions on Ford and VW. Both had record fines for their poor quality vehicles - and poor quality responses.

[Red90]

The facts are clear. Land Rover has been at the bottom of all reliability rating for a decade or more. Anyone suggesting otherwise does not believe in reality.

[101RRS]

But you were not talking about overall reliability - you said "Most other brands build vehicles that are reliable and do not fail even with new models." Which is clearly not so.

[4bee]

It really is unbelievable,isn’t it?

After all the reliability surveys,reputation over the years,it’s still going on?

Other manufacturers have these problems sorted,but some seem to continue with them.

I have had LR’s for the last 21 yrs,and run a fleet of Jap/Thailand commercial vehicles for the last 30 yrs,and from my experience,there is just no comparison in the reliability,service costs,fit and finish,etc,etc,between the two.

Sure,the D4,which was mainly Ford,was better,but it still isn’t up to the standard of others on the market.

This is one reason we have replaced the D4 with another brand.
Yes,you guessed it,the one the sheep buy.
After looking around for a long time,and wanting a large 4WD wagon,new,and suited us,there was no other option.


You bought one that had previously been owned by Sheep? Ooooooooo,Yucky.[bigrolf]

[ramblingboy42]

nothings changed.....this is what you want , this is what you get

[ozscott]

My D2 was excellent in its warranty period..
Certainly not good out of the warranty period in all honesty. My current Mazda is at 170,000 and ZERO issues. Lots of tech in that vehicle too. My Mitsu has only done 21,000 and lots of tech. No issues and doubt it will have any in warranty.

Cheers

[scarry]

You bought one that had previously been owned by Sheep? Ooooooooo,Yucky.[bigrolf]

I just hope it is more reliable and obedient than a sheep[thumbsupbig][bigrolf]

[Red90]

But you were not talking about overall reliability - you said "Most other brands build vehicles that are reliable and do not fail even with new models." Which is clearly not so.

Umm. Yes, it is a fact. Land Rover is near the bottom of all reliability ratings. Thus, most other manufacturers are better. Try not to be blinded but your brand loyalty and look at it from a detached viewpoint. Brand blindless is a horrible illness.

[Eevo]

having owned about 20 cars in the last 10 years, i would place land rover at the bottom for reliability.

[DieselDan]

Umm. Yes, it is a fact. Land Rover is near the bottom of all reliability ratings. Thus, most other manufacturers are better.

Correct.
But that's not what you originally said is it?

You claimed that LR is the only manufacturer that has issues with new models.
You didn't say "therefore other manufacturers are better", you said "other manufacturers have no issues at all".

Which is clearly bollocks.

As you say, LR is regularly at the bottom of the likes of JD Power surveys. This cannot be disputed (although you could argue the relevance of the survey) and there are enough anecdotes/stories/posts on here to suggest "no smoke without fire".

But to suggest that LR is the ONLY car manufacturer that has any issues at all is being somewhat blind.....

[andrewm42]

The main issue that the video highlights is that the engineers/ mechanics are still coming to terms with the systems they have installed in the car.

The first issue with the "check engine light" doesn't really sound like they knew what the issue was, and just swapped around some cables to try and eliminate possible causes, and are now waiting for the problem to reoccur.

The second issue, with the cameras, although annoying, is not critical to the operation of the car, and getting you back from the middle of no-where. What is strange however is that it worked until they "updated the software", and then it stopped working. At this point in time, I would guess this is more likely with some issue with different software versions on the various modules not communicating rather than an actual broken module. Time will tell.

The other thing to keep in mind is reliability is one part of the puzzle, and the other is how the brand treats their customers when they have issues. Based on the US experience, the brand definitely seems interested in helping. I would like to think that this behaviour is not just for YouTubing customers.

[barney]

Someone may have said this before, I couldn't be bothered going through all the posts, but when you have 90 odd computers networked together, the likelihood of a glitch is multiplied.

I watched the video the other day, they had a check engine light come on! the dealership took the car and reloaded the software but it obviously was a partial update the wasn't compatible with the rest of the system (we have the same problems with the catering equipment we sell and service). Sometimes, if the firmware versions don't match, they won't communicate properly.

It's possible that this was the mistake the techs made at the dealership because it would not communicate with the camera system.

You have to remember that these guys in land Rover workshops are predominately mechanics. That is their trade, but the world is changing and so are cars.
These mechanics need to be more than just mechanics, they need to understand networking systems and how to maintain them.
As I have had to do as an electrician, working as a catering equipment technician.

[4bee]

Correct.
But that's not what you originally said is it?

You claimed that LR is the only manufacturer that has issues with new models.
You didn't say "therefore other manufacturers are better", you said "other manufacturers have no issues at all".

Which is clearly bollocks.

As you say, LR is regularly at the bottom of the likes of JD Power surveys. This cannot be disputed (although you could argue the relevance of the survey) and there are enough anecdotes/stories/posts on here to suggest "no smoke without fire".

But to suggest that LR is the ONLY car manufacturer that has any issues at all is being somewhat blind.....



I made a post a while back somewhere here where LR & one other make were at the bottom of the list.

Can' recall who the other was ATM, but they appeared to be in good company with each other.

[Bigbjorn]

Hardly embarassing to a car maker that produced the P38 and TD5 debacles and ignored them.[bigwhistle]

[Red90]

Correct.
But that's not what you originally said is it?

You claimed that LR is the only manufacturer that has issues with new models.
You didn't say "therefore other manufacturers are better", you said "other manufacturers have no issues at all".



Perhaps you need to try and read what I wrote prior to making a fool of yourself.


That is not apples to apples. Most other brands build vehicles that are reliable and do not fail even with new models. I've never had a new vehicle with a failure during warranty, ever. 100% of people I know that have purchased a new Land Rover in the last 10 years have had multiple warranty claims. The average being four per year.

[NT5224]

Gotta say folks

This news dosesn't surprise me. A US customer review:

We've had ours since June 8. After 8 days, the Check Engine light went on. Land Rover then had the car for 9 days The dealer determined that three mechanical faults set the light off, but the mechanical faults were non-existent; it must have been a software issue that caused the light to come on. Land Rover (the dealer, in consultation with engineers from Land Rover USA on the east coast and Land Rover England) cleared the Check Engine light but never determined what software issue set it off in the first place. We then got the car back, Land Rover having had it for a longer period of time than we did.About a week later, Sirius went out. It comes in and out intermittently, and we have an appointment to have that fixed, but we can't get in to the dealer until the end of July. While waiting for that appointment, the Check Engine light came on again. I'm anticipating another long stint with a loaner.We love the car reliability issues aside, but those reliability issues are quickly moving it into Lemon Law land.

[101RRS]

Umm. Yes, it is a fact. Land Rover is near the bottom of all reliability ratings. Thus, most other manufacturers are better. Try not to be blinded but your brand loyalty and look at it from a detached viewpoint. Brand blindless is a horrible illness.

Not blinded at all, in fact am one of the most critical.

I am well aware of the reliability stats but that is not what you said.

You said "......... and do not fail even with new models" with respect to other brands. This is absolute crap - all new models of all brands have failures with new models. Not talking about overall reliabilty but you said other Brands releasing new models have no failures which is just not so.

You were not talking about overall reliability stats so don't try and change the point you were making as you know it is bull ****.

[101RRS]

The first issue with the "check engine light" doesn't really sound like they knew what the issue was, and just swapped around some cables to try and eliminate possible causes, and are now waiting for the problem to reoccur.

Was most likely just a communications error that corrected itself when the ECU was rebooted - not likely to be fixed moving leads around.

What were they doing a software update on a just delivered vehicle - I can understand updates being developed since the car was made but surely as part of the dealer delivery process and new updates would be installed.

The screen issue needs top be sorted asap - this sort of stupid fault is what will kill the reliability reputation of the model in the mind of the public.

[scarry]

Was most likely just a communications error that corrected itself when the ECU was rebooted - not likely to be fixed moving leads around.

What were they doing a software update on a just delivered vehicle - I can understand updates being developed since the car was made but surely as part of the dealer delivery process and new updates would be installed.

The screen issue needs top be sorted asap - this sort of stupid fault is what will kill the reliability reputation of the model in the mind of the public.

Same types issues still plague D5 since it’s arrival.

[DieselDan]

I made a post a while back somewhere here where LR & one other make were at the bottom of the list.

Can' recall who the other was ATM, but they appeared to be in good company with each other.Tesla, probably!

[101RRS]

Same types issues still plague D5 since it’s arrival.

Yes and they are more of a worry than its ugly fat arse [bigrolf].

[Red90]

You said "......... and do not fail even with new models" with respect to other brands. This is absolute crap - all new models of all brands have failures with new models. Not talking about overall reliabilty but you said other Brands releasing new models have no failures which is just not so.

You were not talking about overall reliability stats so don't try and change the point you were making as you know it is bull ****.

Thank you for the out of context partial quote. Try carefully reading all of the words in my post and then put all those words together to understand the complete meaning behind what I'm stating. Then come back for a reasoned and logic based discussion without the insults. I'm sure everyone would prefer to see the usage of facts and logic to discuss an issue over attacks and insults.

[DieselDan]

Perhaps you need to try and read what I wrote prior to making a fool of yourself.[emoji1787]
Got no concerns whether you think I'm a fool or not.

Anyway, we're arguing over the semantics of language/interpretation.
Seems I'm not the only one who glossed over the word 'most'...

[4bee]

The only warranty issue I had with the D2 from new was I got the cup holder stuck open. Thankfully it didn’t get stuck closed else that would have been a show stopper.




Kidding roight? The Cupholder actually stuck open? OMFG! Jeeeezuz you were so lucky man it wasn't a write off.[bigrolf]

[101RRS]

Thank you for the out of context partial quote. Try carefully reading all of the words in my post and then put all those words together to understand the complete meaning behind what I'm stating. Then come back for a reasoned and logic based discussion without the insults. I'm sure everyone would prefer to see the usage of facts and logic to discuss an issue over attacks and insults.

As usual - you have not addressed the issue related to what you actually said.

As far as insults go - I think it was you who called another member a "fool"

ENDAT

[scarry]

Kidding roight? The Cupholder actually stuck open? OMFG! [bigrolf]

I wonder how many trips it took before they worked out the problem[bighmmm][bigrolf]

I had three D2's all bought new.They had more trips to the dealers for repair,than any vehicles I have ever owned.
Generally it took the techs two goes to fix everything, sometimes three.[bigsad]
Then they sent out a survey to fill out,all about the wonderfull experience with the LR dealer.
So after filling that out with some details and colourful language, they rang me the very next day and apologised.
I told them I will never ever go back.
So I went to the other dealer for warranty work, and they were no better.[bigsad]

Actually the work at the first dealer was the worse work I had ever seen on a vehicle.
Absolutely hopeless.The vehicles used to also regularly come back without the engine cover on, oil still dripping off them where repairs were done, etc,etc.

As for our Jap work vans, every service is done at the dealer, not one issue.
Half the labour rate of LR,as well, although we are on fleet.

[DiscoDB]

I wonder how many trips it took before they worked out the problem[bighmmm][bigrolf]


Actually it was two times - can you believe it.

[emoji23]

In all seriousness this would be counted as 2 warranty issues in a JD Power survey - so just below the 2020 LR average of 2.28 problems per car.

[slug_burner]

Before computers LR still were able to make cars that failed to proceed. You could not get much simpler than the defender 300 Tdi mechanical injection pump vehicle, yet they f....d up the gear and splines lubrication of R380/LT230 combination. Definitely a latent defect that they should have fixed at their cost but not so. They probably would have gone broke if they had. Now they are better funded and have had some successes withe the best 4wd award for their D3/D4 vehicles.

The marketing types got in and all of a sudden the defender was put on the back burner as they focused on the luxury market. Service costs higher than the average marque and work shop managers at dealerships relying on clients with deep pockets that just don’t question multiple $k repairs. Only two ways to go from here, stick with pushing out product and turn a deaf ear to the problems and lose more market share or listen to the feedback On the problems and address them.

LR for us die hards but then again what else are we going to get into. Probably doesn’t much matter as the manufacturers that survive are doing something right.

[4bee]

Before computers LR still were able to make cars that failed to proceed. You could not get much simpler than the defender 300 Tdi mechanical injection pump vehicle, yet they f....d up the gear and splines lubrication of R380/LT230 combination. Definitely a latent defect that they should have fixed at their cost but not so. They probably would have gone broke if they had. Now they are better funded and have had some successes withe the best 4wd award for their D3/D4 vehicles.

The marketing types got in and all of a sudden the defender was put on the back burner as they focused on the luxury market. Service costs higher than the average marque and work shop managers at dealerships relying on clients with deep pockets that just don’t question multiple $k repairs. Only two ways to go from here, stick with pushing out product and turn a deaf ear to the problems and lose more market share or listen to the feedback On the problems and address them.

LR for us die hards but then again what else are we going to get into. Probably doesn’t much matter as the manufacturers that survive are doing something right.



Right on. That R380 problem shouldn't have been left to Ashcrofts to figure out with their ideas.

One would have reasonably assumed there were some bright sparks within LR at that time.

My D1 wasn't affected because I obtained the Oil Catcher Device that fitted inside the TB cover plate quite early in the peace/piece. Another Ashcroft idea before some one worked out that to drill the gear would improve lubrication even more. But I bet London to a Brick it wasn't a LR Engineer.

[scarry]

Before computers LR still were able to make cars that failed to proceed. You could not get much simpler than the defender 300 Tdi mechanical injection pump vehicle, yet they f....d up the gear and splines lubrication of R380/LT230 combination. Definitely a latent defect that they should have fixed at their cost but not so. They probably would have gone broke if they had.

Those faults are nothing, compared with the ridiculous engineering and quality control on the Puma.[bigsad]

So in actual fact they didn't learn at all.

The last of a model run should have been the best of all of them,in actual fact, it was the worse.

[Old Farang]

You bought one that had previously been owned by Sheep? Ooooooooo,Yucky.[bigrolf]

165642

165643

[alittlebitconcerned]

I didn’t read through all of the replies, I didn’t want to be triggered 😅
I had an early puma. Others had an early extreme etc etc and on it goes. There’s an X factor about land rovers that makes people buy them while ignoring the reliability reports (I did; not to say you did) especially the first versions of a new model. Wish I could say I wasn’t stung. I hope you get it sorted out before Stoholm syndrome kicks in.

[4bee]

Those faults are nothing, compared with the ridiculous engineering and quality control on the Puma.[bigsad]

So in actual fact they didn't learn at all.

The last of a model run should have been the best of all of them,in actual fact, it was the worse.


Ah the old "Less Haste more Speed" scenario

Doesn't always work does it?

[TerryO]

Tesla, probably!


If you have ever been in a Tesla you would never make jokes about them, easily the best vehicle I have ever been in, extremely quite, very comfortable and easily by far the quickest, man they are quick, let alone it drives itself which has to be witnessed to be really appreciated.
However the main reason electric cars are the future is this, when driven from the Gold Coast to Noosa and back it cost $5.70 in electricity to charge the Battery. The last time I did the same drive in my D4 it cost $90 in petrol.

Unfortunately I don’t see a new Disco or Defender in my future purchases, to be frank I can’t stand the look of the D5, I made a decision six years ago to buy a V8 petrol D4 and apart from the fuel costs to run it has proven to be the most reliable LR I have owned and I can’t see me selling it until electric cars become mainstream and more affordable, which likely means I will be keeping the D4 for quite a while which I am happy to do, the D4 is by far the best vehicle I have owned.

[4bee]

If you have ever been in a Tesla you would never make jokes about them, easily the best vehicle I have ever been in, extremely quite, very comfortable and easily by far the quickest, man they are quick, let alone it drives itself which has to be witnessed to be really appreciated.
However the main reason electric cars are the future is this, when driven from the Gold Coast to Noosa and back it cost $5.70 in electricity to charge the Battery. The last time I did the same drive in my D4 it cost $90 in petrol.

Unfortunately I don’t see a new Disco or Defender in my future purchases, to be frank I can’t stand the look of the D5, I made a decision six years ago to buy a V8 petrol D4 and apart from the fuel costs to run it has proven to be the most reliable LR I have owned and I can’t see me selling it until electric cars become mainstream and more affordable, which likely means I will be keeping the D4 for quite a while which I am happy to do, the D4 is by far the best vehicle I have owned.



Not my joke Tel,it was the list results of a Survey which stated that. Me? I wouldn't know a TESLA if I tripped over it in my Size 10s let alone having a ride/drive in one. Meanwhile until I do, I'll take your word for it, certainly sounds impressive though.

[DiscoDB]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201024/33f29d389df0055a167e894ebbf7b411.jpg

[101RRS]

I think when future history looks back on car propulsion the all electric vehicle as per the Tesla will be just a blip on the technology timeline. Its main drawback even with Tesla style fast chargers will be the time it takes to recharge - if we can get it down to a couple of minutes things might be difference.

To me the future lies in vehicles like the Hyundai Nexo Nexo | Coming soon | Hyundai Australia (https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/coming-soon/nexo) - an electric vehicle but instead of a battery, it has a hydrogen fuel cell. These are already in showrooms but not for sale just yet. There is one "bowser" in Sydney and soon to be four in Canberra where the Government is planning 20 Nexo's early next year - Qld is also intending to use them and Toyota is putting in a bowser in Melbourne.

With the greater use of green energy to make the hydrogen, the past restrictions of cost and emissions will be a thing of the past.

So once hydrogen productions comes on full stream and the refuelling infrastructure moves to the provision of hydrogen bowsers then I thing hydrogen powered, not battery powered electric vehicles will be the way of the future, but until that happens it will be battery.

Garry

[scarry]

I think when future history looks back on car propulsion the all electric vehicle as per the Tesla will be just a blip on the technology timeline. Its main drawback even with Tesla style fast chargers will be the time it takes to recharge - if we can get it down to a couple of minutes things might be difference.

To me the future lies in vehicles like the Hyundai Nexo Nexo | Coming soon | Hyundai Australia (https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/coming-soon/nexo) - an electric vehicle but instead of a battery, it has a hydrogen fuel cell. These are already in showrooms but not for sale just yet. There is one "bowser" in Sydney and soon to be four in Canberra where the Government is planning 20 Nexo's early next year - Qld is also intending to use them and Toyota is putting in a bowser in Melbourne.

With the greater use of green energy to make the hydrogen, the past restrictions of cost and emissions will be a thing of the past.

So once hydrogen productions comes on full stream and the refuelling infrastructure moves to the provision of hydrogen bowsers then I thing hydrogen powered, not battery powered electric vehicles will be the way of the future, but until that happens it will be battery.

Garry

Hybrids are also the go, mainly due to convenience.
They have been around for a long time, since 1997.

Toyota has been using the Hydrogen technology for years, they have had vehicles with that technology on the market since around 2014.
They are also leaders using the same tech in Trucks and buses.
Although not here, as we seem to get the new tech last.[bigsad][biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

I didn’t read through all of the replies, I didn’t want to be triggered [emoji28]
I had an early puma. Others had an early extreme etc etc and on it goes. There’s an X factor about land rovers that makes people buy them while ignoring the reliability reports (I did; not to say you did) especially the first versions of a new model. Wish I could say I wasn’t stung. I hope you get it sorted out before Stoholm syndrome kicks in.Are you talking about the rattling clutch springs in early Pumas, fixed when the Ford part was upgraded by LR with stronger springs, or something else? Just wondering what to look forwards to on mine, after 156,000 kms?

[101RRS]

Hybrids are also the go, mainly due to convenience.


And will be banned in Europe in a few years time - anything that burns dino fuel is going to get the chop.

Plug in Hybrids are better though.

[ozscott]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201024/33f29d389df0055a167e894ebbf7b411.jpgThat particular photo makes it look old and pretty ugly. There are a lot better shots. Cheers

[ozscott]

Are you talking about the rattling clutch springs in early Pumas, fixed when the Ford part was upgraded by LR with stronger springs, or something else? Just wondering what to look forwards to on mine, after 156,000 kms?Mick, my D2 didn't have a failure to 180,000 odd when the alternator died...and it went downhill from there [emoji1787]...can never get cocksure in a Land Rover [emoji23].
Cheers

Ps. I.say this while looking lovingly at my 18 year old Ned Kelly's axe D2 with well over 300000 k on it (the diffs are original).

[DieselDan]

If you have ever been in a Tesla you would never make jokes about them...

It wasn't meant as a joke, I actually think it was Tesla who were at the bottom of the reliability heap keeping LR company.
I quite like Teslas, with the exception of that pointless gullwing, pseudo SUV thing!

[scarry]

And will be banned in Europe in a few years time - anything that burns dino fuel is going to get the chop.

Plug in Hybrids are better though.

I doubt they will get the chop, not for many, many years.

Plug in are better,but some manufacturers are saying they are less economical due to the huge weight increase of a larger battery.

[scarry]

Are you talking about the rattling clutch springs in early Pumas, fixed when the Ford part was upgraded by LR with stronger springs, or something else? Just wondering what to look forwards to on mine, after 156,000 kms?

FWIW,MR told me that the LR part had continual failures as well,in fact the part numbers have changed more than 5 times.
Dazza on here said something about using after market only.

If you have had clutch,slave cylinder and adapter shaft replaced, with Ashcroft,all should hopefully be good for a while.[thumbsupbig]

[TerryO]

It wasn't meant as a joke, I actually think it was Tesla who were at the bottom of the reliability heap keeping LR company.
I quite like Teslas, with the exception of that pointless gullwing, pseudo SUV thing!

Interestingly I know three people with Teslas’s, to date none of them have broken down or had a major issue, wish I could say the same for myself or my friends with LR’s.

[101RRS]

I doubt they will get the chop, not for many, many years.



That is not what policy in various European countries say - all petrol and diesel burning vehicles - including hybrids will be banned in something like 2035 - I cannot recall exactly when.

[scarry]

That is not what policy in various European countries say - all petrol and diesel burning vehicles - including hybrids will be banned in something like 2035 - I cannot recall exactly when.

A lot can happen in 15 or so years.

Would you believe something said by a politician,predicting a policy that is supposedly going to take place in 15 yrs time?

Many wouldn't.

Sure it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy, and may get a few votes, but in reality, if there is nothing around as convenient as we have now, it isn't going to happen.

Just my 2 cents worth[biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

That is not what policy in various European countries say - all petrol and diesel burning vehicles - including hybrids will be banned in something like 2035 - I cannot recall exactly when.Yes, that's right for autos. Various dates from 2035 to 2050. Doesn't include diesel heavy transport, I believe.
Some Euro cities including London already have bans on vehicles which can't meet certain emissions standards.
They are way ahead of us on planning for the future because they haven't wasted a decade on playing silly political games about renewables and denying climate change.

[DiscoMick]

FWIW,MR told me that the LR part had continual failures as well,in fact the part numbers have changed more than 5 times.
Dazza on here said something about using after market only.

If you have had clutch,slave cylinder and adapter shaft replaced, with Ashcroft,all should hopefully be good for a while.[thumbsupbig]Thanks, I went for an AP HD clutch on Dazza's advice.
I think it's right that the LR upgraded clutch has 30% stronger springs.

[4bee]

A lot can happen in 15 or so years.

Would you believe something said by a politician,predicting a policy that is supposedly going to take place in 15 yrs time?

Many wouldn't.

Sure it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy, and may get a few votes, but in reality, if there is nothing around as convenient as we have now, it isn't going to happen.

Just my 2 cents worth[biggrin]



I don't know about you Paul but I doubt I'll be giving a flying **** by then, least of all what a Politician says today. [bigrolf]

[Discodicky]

I think it may be more to do with modern demands on vehicle OS.

Sometimes it just seems to go wrong [emoji58]


Remember Toyota smashed the 100 series across the globe, and then had thousands of engine and suspension problems - often catastrophic failures.
For a company that size, full of spin on being unbreakable, that’s some horrendous outcomes.


The most improved player in the game has been Mitsubishi in recent years. And they’re multitudes of funding better off than LR

I had a 1994
100 series Turbo Diesel which was recalled for replacement engine bearings...

[PerthDisco]

My friends who are current model Hilux owners are getting new DPFs FOC due to a class action in progress

[Discodicky]

That is not apples to apples. Most other brands build vehicles that are reliable and do not fail even with new models. I've never had a new vehicle with a failure during warranty, ever. 100% of people I know that have purchased a new Land Rover in the last 10 years have had multiple warranty claims. The average being four per year.

You've been lucky. Prior retirement I was in the earth moving game, and over the years all our new Field Service vehicles gave problems under warranty. Ford (Courier), Nissan (Navara and Patrol) and Toyota (Hilux and L/cruiser).

[Discodicky]

The main issue that the video highlights is that the engineers/ mechanics are still coming to terms with the systems they have installed in the car.

The first issue with the "check engine light" doesn't really sound like they knew what the issue was, and just swapped around some cables to try and eliminate possible causes, and are now waiting for the problem to reoccur.

The second issue, with the cameras, although annoying, is not critical to the operation of the car, and getting you back from the middle of no-where. What is strange however is that it worked until they "updated the software", and then it stopped working. At this point in time, I would guess this is more likely with some issue with different software versions on the various modules not communicating rather than an actual broken module. Time will tell.

The other thing to keep in mind is reliability is one part of the puzzle, and the other is how the brand treats their customers when they have issues. Based on the US experience, the brand definitely seems interested in helping. I would like to think that this behaviour is not just for YouTubing customers.

Excellent comment which you beat me to by a short margin. It would appear the camera problem was "introduced" by the Service agent as the owner made no comment that it was not working prior to taking the car in. The disbelievers laughing about this problem should put themselves in the situation of the Service agent tackling this problem. A totally new vehicle with which their top mechs have probably only done a few days Service Training and completely unfamiliar with the product in the raw. We had a similar situation with our first V8 L/Cruiser flat tray Field service vehicle and it sat in the Dealer's w/shop for 9 days whilst they played with it. Eventually replaced the ECU which was ex Japan. It was the new V8 model and their mechs were unfamiliar with it. And that vehicle went on to have the engine rebuilt under warranty with new piston rings due to chronic oil usage.

[scarry]

I had a 1994
100 series Turbo Diesel which was recalled for replacement engine bearings...

At least they recalled them and they were fixed under warranty.

Unlike the 3.0L in the D4/5.But this issue seems more random,so actual vehicles that have the problem may be difficult to identify.

[Tombie]

At least they recalled them and they were fixed under warranty.

Unlike the 3.0L in the D4/5.But this issue seems more random,so actual vehicles that have the problem may be difficult to identify.

It was every 6cyl Diesel cruiser which made it easy to work out.
I have friends with them and as part of their 100k service interval they drop the bottom end and replace all the bearings. If you don’t, it is likely to fail.

The SDV6 seems a bit more hit and miss. Still covered under warranty - it’s once that warranty is over that you must assess the risk.

There are aftermarket cranks out there now that sort the issue.

[DazzaTD5]

It really is unbelievable,isn’t it?

After all the reliability surveys,reputation over the years,it’s still going on?

Other manufacturers have these problems sorted,but some seem to continue with them.

I have had LR’s for the last 21 yrs,and run a fleet of Jap/Thailand commercial vehicles for the last 30 yrs,and from my experience,there is just no comparison in the reliability,service costs,fit and finish,etc,etc,between the two.

Sure,the D4,which was mainly Ford,was better,but it still isn’t up to the standard of others on the market.

This is one reason we have replaced the D4 with another brand.
Yes,you guessed it,the one the sheep buy.
After looking around for a long time,and wanting a large 4WD wagon,new,and suited us,there was no other option.

I couldn't agree more with everything you have said.
Land Rover have designed (different to actually putting them together correctly) some dam great vehicles over the decades but what is generally consistent is poor build quality and reliability issues.

I thought I had read that the Defender had undergone some huge amount of km testing (1 million kms?) yet A pillar noise, leaking windscreens, rattles in the door trims and camera issues never showed during testing???

As I have said before, if the new Defender has the build quality and reliability of a Lexus it will be an awesome truck.

[Discodicky]

It was every 6cyl Diesel cruiser which made it easy to work out.
I have friends with them and as part of their 100k service interval they drop the bottom end and replace all the bearings. If you don’t, it is likely to fail.

The SDV6 seems a bit more hit and miss. Still covered under warranty - it’s once that warranty is over that you must assess the risk.

There are aftermarket cranks out there now that sort the issue.

True.
Just realised my "deliberate" mistake; it was my 1994 80 series GXL turbo diesel, not my 100 series GXL turbo diesel which came later to me and was a 2004 model.

[4bee]

True.
Just realised my "deliberate" mistake; it was my 1994 80 series GXL turbo diesel, not my 100 series GXL turbo diesel which came later to me and was a 2004 model.


What is 10 years between friends?[bigrolf]

[Tombie]

True.
Just realised my "deliberate" mistake; it was my 1994 80 series GXL turbo diesel, not my 100 series GXL turbo diesel which came later to me and was a 2004 model.

Those ones just had the front suspension arms collapsing [emoji851]

[scarry]

Those ones just had the front suspension arms collapsing [emoji851]

And an issue with the gearbox for certain vehicles, that was resolved under warranty.

FWIW,a good 80 is worth quite a few $ today.

This is all history, sure shows our age.[bigsad][bigsad][biggrin]

The model T Ford also had an issue with the front hubs, true, I have been reading a book about it and its competitors.[thumbsupbig][biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

Relations have 2 x 80 series Turbo-diesels in the family.
One has been parked for months after the motor seized, until they get a chance to rebuild it.
The other one needed a complete upgraded suspension after it failed while towing a camper around WA.
It's a good thing he is a retired mechanic with time on his hands to keep them on the road.

[scarry]

Relations have 2 x 80 series Turbo-diesels in the family.
One has been parked for months after the motor seized, until they get a chance to rebuild it.
The other one needed a complete upgraded suspension after it failed while towing a camper around WA.
It's a good thing he is a retired mechanic with time on his hands to keep them on the road.

That comment doesn’t really mean anything,you are talking about vehicles that are close to 30 yrs old,who knows the history of them?Probably no one as they have possibly had multiple owners,nothing would have been documented over the years.

Just my 2 cents worth.[tonguewink]

[101RRS]

My brother had a TD 80 series from new - engine bearing problems.

Then bought a 100 series, new, front suspension/chassis cracks.

Bought a 11My 70 series V8 - usual oil problems and lack of power.

Bought a new 15My 200 series TDV8 - suspension sagged before first service.

The other brothers 11MY Hylux - steering column issues and replaced twice under warranty - has now settled down but is just an awful vehicle to drive.

Nah - Crapotas are not what the great unwashed think they are.

[Discodicky]

Those ones just had the front suspension arms collapsing [emoji851]

Yep, a well known problem for 100 Series IFS Cruisers, not to mention the weak front diff which is known to fail spectacularly if doing moderate 4WDing.
Just remembered that my Company supplied 80 Series L/cruiser non turbo was a bugger for 3rd gear syncro problems. Done twice under wnty.

[scarry]

My brother had a TD 80 series from new - engine bearing problems.

Then bought a 100 series, new, front suspension/chassis cracks.

Bought a 11My 70 series V8 - usual oil problems and lack of power.

Bought a new 15My 200 series TDV8 - suspension sagged before first service.

The other brothers 11MY Hylux - steering column issues and replaced twice under warranty - has now settled down but is just an awful vehicle to drive.

Nah - Crapotas are not what the great unwashed think they are.

We have had four Hi Ace vans over the last 10 to 12 years, do 300 000k without one issue, nothing,not even brakes.
Loaded almost on GVM all day, every day.Late model diesels with DPF's,done well over 130 000K,not an issue.There are three others here with over 200 000K on them, not one issue.
One of the others did diff bearings at 250 000K.
Maybe ours are driven sensibly, serviced correct, looked after?
All manuals, never changed a clutch either.

We have one BT 50,just not the quality of the Tojo,things have fallen off it, brakes need doing regularly, wont be getting another.

Just my two cents worth, and facts, not what someone said,or a mate did, or whatever his sisters Uncle said.[biggrin]

[SPROVER]

We have had four Hi Ace vans over the last 10 to 12 years, do 300 000k without one issue, nothing,not even brakes.
Loaded almost on GVM all day, every day.Late model diesels with DPF's,done well over 130 000K,not an issue.There are three others here with over 200 000K on them, not one issue.
One of the others did diff bearings at 250 000K.
Maybe ours are driven sensibly, serviced correct, looked after?
All manuals, never changed a clutch either.

We have one BT 50,just not the quality of the Tojo,things have fallen off it, brakes need doing regularly, wont be getting another.

Just my two cents worth, and facts, not what someone said,or a mate did, or whatever his sisters Uncle said.[biggrin]So you're vans have done 300, 000 km at full GVM and never had to change the brakes? [emoji848][emoji848]They must be some bloody good brakes. Where can I get some? [emoji16][emoji16]

[101RRS]

Just my two cents worth, and facts, not what someone said,or a mate did, or whatever his sisters Uncle said.[biggrin]

My siblings experiences are facts and not what someone else said - I know from direct knowledge, not what someone said,or a mate did, or whatever his sisters Uncle said.

Toyotas are OK but despite what you Toyota lovers think they do have always had major issues just like any other brand.

[scarry]

So you're vans have done 300, 000 km at full GVM and never had to change the brakes? [emoji848][emoji848]They must be some bloody good brakes. Where can I get some? [emoji16][emoji16]

If you want to see the service dockets, fine PM me and I will send them over.......[bighmmm][biggrin]

[scarry]

My siblings experiences are facts and not what someone else said - I know from direct knowledge, not what someone said,or a mate did, or whatever his sisters Uncle said.

Toyotas are OK but despite what you Toyota lovers think they do have always had major issues just like any other brand.

I don't think I am a lover of any brand, anymore than you or anyone maybe of brand whatever.

No where did I say any, whatever brand, has no issues.

The more vehicles that a brand sells, the more issues will appear.Its the % of issues, related to the number of sales that need to be looked at to give apples with apples comparisons.

All I stated was actual facts after running a fleet of numerous brands of vehicles over 30 yrs,mostly service vehicles for business.

[DiscoMick]

On Toyotas and towing, there was an amusing discussion at a workshop on towing at the Let's Go Brisbane Caravan and Camping show at the showground today.
One of the speakers, who runs a training company, asked how many people there had Toyota 200s, and several hands went up.
He and another speaker then spent about five minutes detailing why the 200 was a poor towing vehicle which only had a payload of about 600kg, so after allowing for a caravan towball weight of say 200kg, a bullbar, fridge and 3-4 people with luggage, the 200 would be overloaded and illegal.
The 200 owners did not look happy.
He also said Land Rover were the only make which did not need sway bars when towing.
I barely resisted the temptation to mention our Defender's 1000kg payload.
If you go to the show I recommend the towing workshop. It was interesting.

[PerthDisco]

On Toyotas and towing, there was an amusing discussion at a workshop on towing at the Let's Go Brisbane Caravan and Camping show at the showground today.
One of the speakers, who runs a training company, asked how many people there had Toyota 200s, and several hands went up.
He and another speaker then spent about five minutes detailing why the 200 was a poor towing vehicle which only had a payload of about 600kg, so after allowing for a caravan towball weight of say 200kg, a bullbar, fridge and 3-4 people with luggage, the 200 would be overloaded and illegal.
The 200 owners did not look happy.
He also said Land Rover were the only make which did not need sway bars when towing.
I barely resisted the temptation to mention our Defender's 1000kg payload.
If you go to the show I recommend the towing workshop. It was interesting.

A friend has just had the mega tow pack $$$ upgrade to his near new 200 to tow this enormous Shark Cat boat he has built to the limits of max upgraded tow capacity.

In every day empty driving mode he has lead weight in the spare tyre under the car to get some softness in the rear end as it’s a pogo stick otherwise.

[Eevo]

oh what a feeling!

[scarry]

A friend has just had the mega tow pack $$$ upgrade to his near new 200 to tow this enormous Shark Cat boat he has built to the limits of max upgraded tow capacity.

In every day empty driving mode he has lead weight in the spare tyre under the car to get some softness in the rear end as it’s a pogo stick otherwise.

So if he towed it with something like a D4,it would be illegal, as no GVM upgrade available.

Must be one hell of a Shark Cat.

What he really needs is the correct towing vehicle for the job, and that isn't a Tojo or any other 4WD wagon on the market.

[Old Farang]

So if he towed it with something like a D4,it would be illegal, as no GVM upgrade available.

Must be one hell of a Shark Cat.

What he really needs is the correct towing vehicle for the job, and that isn't a Tojo or any other 4WD wagon on the market.

What about a Ford F 150:

Ford F-150 Truck Range Australia - American Car Company - Gold Coast, Australia (https://americancarcompany.com.au/ford-f-150-range-australia/)

Breaking Down the 2019 Ford F-150's Towing Capacities - PickupTrucks.com News (https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2019/06/breaking-down-the-2019-ford-f-150s-towing-capacities.html#:~:text=What%27s%20the%202019%20Fo rd%20F,Package%20and%2020%2Dinch%20tires).

[4bee]

So if he towed it with something like a D4,it would be illegal, as no GVM upgrade available.

Must be one hell of a Shark Cat.

What he really needs is the correct towing vehicle for the job, and that isn't a Tojo or any other 4WD wagon on the market.


Yeah, Ian's Rig.[bighmmm]

[scarry]

Yeah, Ian's Rig.[bighmmm]

It might be in the 'Markets",as I think he has moved on from trucks?[wink11]

Heard a rumour he has his eye on a career in Auto Air.[bighmmm]

[Red90]

Land Rover Defender 2020 software update problem part 3 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb3BT5imkhs)

[4bee]

It might be in the 'Markets",as I think he has moved on from trucks?[wink11]

Heard a rumour he has his eye on a career in Auto Air.[bighmmm]


But wouldn't he have to have a Partnership with his mate for that to happen, after all he appeared to be as it turned out, to be the brains of the outfit?
I suppose they both took turns with the Fencing Pliers, but I suspect the decision to use same was made by his mate. Then again it was him with the "**** me that's hot" fingers so maybe not.:Rolling:
:BigCry:

[scarry]

But wouldn't he have to have a Partnership with his mate for that to happen, after all he appeared to be as it turned out to be the brains of the outfit?
I suppose they both took turns with the Fencing Pliers, but I suspect the decision to use same was made by his mate. Then again it was him with the "**** me that's hot" fingers so maybe not.:Rolling:
:BigCry:

The partnership would be interesting, sort of like the blind leading the blind....:Rolling:

[4bee]

The partnership would be interesting, sort of like the blind leading the blind....:Rolling:


My initial thought also Paul, but if the Military content was ex-RAEME he would have the edge. In fact hitting summat with a BF anything sounds very Militaristic. Hammers, Spanners, Rifle Butts, (unloaded of course) Targets etc etc etc.

Not sure a bloke who just ties down loads & turns a steering wheel for hours on end would have the expertise of just where to hit summat.
[bigrolf]

[PerthDisco]

So if he towed it with something like a D4,it would be illegal, as no GVM upgrade available.

Must be one hell of a Shark Cat.

What he really needs is the correct towing vehicle for the job, and that isn't a Tojo or any other 4WD wagon on the market.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201031/575d2c9124438c7f452130524fa593c4.jpg
Yep pretty big!

Yep logical to have an Effey or Ram but I think the idea is that you have the car luxuries and not driving a small truck day to day.

[scarry]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201031/575d2c9124438c7f452130524fa593c4.jpg
Yep pretty big!

Yep logical to have an Effey or Ram but I think the idea is that you have the car luxuries and not driving a small truck day to day.

:eek2:

Yer with the max GVM mod,it will be an absolute shocker of a ride without that on the back.[bigsad]

[PerthDisco]

:eek2:

Yer with the max GVM mod,it will be an absolute shocker of a ride without that on the back.[bigsad]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201031/3b20826763f26d0e108eacc25445ebea.jpg
Yet back in the day the VL V8 with its massive 164hp was the ultimate tow mule!

[ozscott]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201031/3b20826763f26d0e108eacc25445ebea.jpg
Yet back in the day the VL V8 with its massive 164hp was the ultimate tow mule!Yes we forget what we had to tow with (let's not mention the brakes)...

Cheers

[ramblingboy42]

We do make a big deal of stuff these days.

I've mentioned before my friends I grew up with had a caravan hire service and they would tow a 21' caravan with a FJ Holden Ute.

edited ps. how did this thread about the new Land Rover morph into a towing therad?

[4bee]

Yes we forget what we had to tow with (let's not mention the brakes)...

Cheers

BRAKES! You had Brakes? In my day we looked for the nearest River Red Gum & ran into that. Brakes pffffft Kid's Stuff.[bigrolf]

[scarry]

BRAKES! You had Brakes? In my day we looked for the nearest River Gum & ran into that. Brakes pffffft Kids Stuff.[bigrolf]

Hand brake didn't work either?

When I was a youngster,on Fraser Island,we had issues with sticks getting caught around, and breaking the brake pipe, on Series vehicles, particularly on the rear.Used to drive around for weeks before the parts could be flown in, that is, dropped in a sack out of a low flying aircraft.
That was only if they didn't have anything else to drop off, if they did, they would land.

Gears and the handbrake were the only form of brakes[thumbsupbig]

Now what was this thread all about?[tonguewink]
Ah,Land Rovers,so we are still on topic.[biggrin]

[Bigbjorn]

So if he towed it with something like a D4,it would be illegal, as no GVM upgrade available.

Must be one hell of a Shark Cat.

What he really needs is the correct towing vehicle for the job, and that isn't a Tojo or any other 4WD wagon on the market.

A Caterpillar D4 would be suited to the task of towing such a big boat. You may have problems with the road authorities.

[4bee]

Hand brake didn't work either?

When I was a youngster,on Fraser Island,we had issues with sticks getting caught around, and breaking the brake pipe, on Series vehicles, particularly on the rear.Used to drive around for weeks before the parts could be flown in, that is, dropped in a sack out of a low flying aircraft.
That was only if they didn't have anything else to drop off, if they did, they would land.

Gears and the handbrake were the only form of brakes[thumbsupbig]

Now what was this thread all about?[tonguewink]
Ah,Land Rovers,so we are still on topic.[biggrin]


For now, but give it 5.[bighmmm]

[Red90]

Still not fixed. There are starting to talk about getting a refund....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K_0w2XTstQ

[scarry]

Still not fixed. There are starting to talk about getting a refund....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K_0w2XTstQ

Someone on here has had their D5 off the road for three months with issues so far,so 21 days doesn’t seem that bad[bighmmm]

[Robmacca]

I see the US Lemon law kicks in after 30days... Pity that law doesn't apply here in Aus...

[Tombie]

A Caterpillar D4 would be suited to the task of towing such a big boat. You may have problems with the road authorities.

Thinking small mate... a D10N is the go

[Bigbjorn]

Thinking small mate... a D10N is the go

The original poster suggested a Land Rover D4. I corrected his thinking. A 10 would be a bit of overkill. Probably overwidth and needing permits of all kinds and a bit hard on bridges in most shires.

[Tombie]

The original poster suggested a Land Rover D4. I corrected his thinking. A 10 would be a bit of overkill. Probably overwidth and needing permits of all kinds and a bit hard on bridges in most shires.

Much nicer on the operator though....

[AndyG]

Someone may have said this before, I couldn't be bothered going through all the posts, but when you have 90 odd computers networked together, the likelihood of a glitch is multiplied.

I watched the video the other day, they had a check engine light come on! the dealership took the car and reloaded the software but it obviously was a partial update the wasn't compatible with the rest of the system (we have the same problems with the catering equipment we sell and service). Sometimes, if the firmware versions don't match, they won't communicate properly.

It's possible that this was the mistake the techs made at the dealership because it would not communicate with the camera system.

You have to remember that these guys in land Rover workshops are predominately mechanics. That is their trade, but the world is changing and so are cars.
These mechanics need to be more than just mechanics, they need to understand networking systems and how to maintain them.
As I have had to do as an electrician, working as a catering equipment technician.

Ha ha this reminds me of installed a POS system, could not get the scale talk to the till,. Throughout all this the butcher leaned against the wall,. Went home , next day it was all working. The butcher had fixed it, ex auto sparky. So I hired him

[4bee]

Ha ha this reminds me of installed a POS system, could not get the scale talk to the till,. Throughout all this the butcher leaned against the wall,. Went home , next day it was all working. The butcher had fixed it, ex auto sparky. So I hired him

Obviously a good choice.

One of my old Bosses would often say "If you want something ****ed up give it to a Plumber to do"

Oddly enough, a number of times he was right.[bigrolf]

[scarry]

On Toyotas and towing, there was an amusing discussion at a workshop on towing at the Let's Go Brisbane Caravan and Camping show at the showground today.
One of the speakers, who runs a training company, asked how many people there had Toyota 200s, and several hands went up.
He and another speaker then spent about five minutes detailing why the 200 was a poor towing vehicle which only had a payload of about 600kg, so after allowing for a caravan towball weight of say 200kg, a bullbar, fridge and 3-4 people with luggage, the 200 would be overloaded and illegal.
The 200 owners did not look happy.
He also said Land Rover were the only make which did not need sway bars when towing.
I barely resisted the temptation to mention our Defender's 1000kg payload.
If you go to the show I recommend the towing workshop. It was interesting.

Lucky you didn’t mention the Puma,as they may have piped up that it has a worse published CO2 emissions rating than a late model 200:eek2:

Yes I know,they must have worked out a way to fudge the figures[bighmmm][biggrin]

[rick130]

Latest vid.

You Really Won't Believe What's Happening With Our Broken Defender... It's Complicated! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/mkpB8okB-xw)

[101RRS]

Just think what would be happening in Aust with our car consumer laws, having to deal with JLR (Aust) and not having a Youtube channel.

Car companies do not walk away from disasters like this, particularly when you already have a poor reputation for reliability and quality.

I think this car along with the D5 will kill Landrover.

[4bee]

Latest vid.

You Really Won't Believe What's Happening With Our Broken Defender... It's Complicated! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/mkpB8okB-xw)


Certainly a lot of talk going on but not much action.


May be a resurgence in Series Vehicles? At least we knew they were unreliable.

[Robmacca]

To me, this is just another classic example of how the advancement in today's vehicles technology has gotten to the point where not even the local dealerships have the knowledge or know-how in how to fix technical issues... This then begs the issue as to how confident would one be in taking these advanced tech vehicles to far-away places throughout the world...
For me, I'll stay with my more "basic" mechanical 4WD's for my remote touring...

[scarry]

To me, this is just another classic example of how the advancement in today's vehicles technology has gotten to the point where not even the local dealerships have the knowledge or know-how in how to fix technical issues... This then begs the issue as to how confident would one be in taking these advanced tech vehicles to far-away places throughout the world...
For me, I'll stay with my more "basic" mechanical 4WD's for my remote touring...

I think the issue is also Land Rover, particularly, seem to have this need to overcomplicate everything.
Why they do this is beyond me.
Some say they are 'innovating',but the result is the vehicles can not only not be repaired successfully by their own workshops, but they become unreliable due to being so complicated.
The more complications, the more chance of failures.
Surely they would realise this?


The dealership down the road from here, had 5 vehicles they couldnt sort with continual issues, and the owners wouldn't give the loan cars back.

A look through the recent 'Lemon law" cases, it seems LR are pretty well represented, even though they sell very few vehicles in Aus compared to other brands.

For us, this is one of the reasons we moved on from LR for our latest purchase.And they also didn't have a vehicle that suited us.

[Old Farang]

Maybe Land Rover have employed some of those former B737 Max "engineers".

[WhiteD3]

A look through the recent 'Lemon law" cases, it seems LR are pretty well represented, even though they sell very few vehicles in Aus compared to other brands.

Where would find a summary of these cases? My recent experience with the D5 has me interested.

[scarry]

Where would find a summary of these cases? My recent experience with the D5 has me interested.

I don’t know,I saw an article in the Australian about it and it mentioned a few brands.
Maybe Google?

[simonmelb]

Seems the D2 TD5 was the last DIY serviceable and roadside fixable family touring car LR has built.

We have seriously considered a newer Landrover for our next lap, but we will either be sticking with our D2 ( which has gone through its mid life refirb) or we’ll be getting the last of the 3 litre Prados. Will be a step down in some ways but we’re not prepared to be stranded.

[frantic]

Latest vid.

You Really Won't Believe What's Happening With Our Broken Defender... It's Complicated! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/mkpB8okB-xw)


I just cant get over the "irreplaceable loom" OMG, so if a main dealer cant fix it how do you repair it if a rat nibbles it while your asleep?
Throw in the 2 coolers behind each corner of the bumper in front of the front wheels, and its a defender id be scared to take on a country road at night let alone of it!

[Graeme]

I'm reminded of my hesitation in buying a TD5 D2 when they were first released because of the electronic engine controls and sure enough, lack of power going up hills after a while was caused by a failed boost regulator. However having mastered the TD5 D2 I moved onto a 3.0 D4 and now a 4.4 TDV8 L322 with no hesitation in taking it to the remotest area, along with a trusty diagnostic tool.

[4bee]

Seems the D2 TD5 was the last DIY serviceable and roadside fixable family touring car LR has built.

We have seriously considered a newer Landrover for our next lap, but we will either be sticking with our D2 ( which has gone through its mid life refirb) or we’ll be getting the last of the 3 litre Prados. Will be a step down in some ways but we’re not prepared to be stranded.


I used to say that about my '95 D1 3.9 EFI.

[Discodicky]

I fully understand the unacceptable problem re engine light, but let's keep the other problems into perspective.
The car went to the dealership with the camera working ok but left with it u/s.
Similarly, the wiring loom problem was NOT caused by the vehicle, it was caused by the seemingly incompetent Dealership!

Unavailability of the loom is unfortunate, however in LR's defence, they would not expect that component to be required as a replacement spare part at such an early stage, thus could not be expected to have one immediately available.

It is financially impossible for a dealership to have EVERY possible part available ex stock as the cost would break the dealership.

I have an MY2000 Hilux 4WD and last month the local dealership did not have the small wiring lead from a junction to the oil pressure switch on the engine.
Should they have had it in stock?
They quoted me $16.85 plus air freight and ex Japan, 14 days minimum.
Made it myself for about $0.85 cents.

[frantic]

I fully understand the unacceptable problem re engine light, but let's keep the other problems into perspective.
The car went to the dealership with the camera working ok but left with it u/s.
Similarly, the wiring loom problem was NOT caused by the vehicle, it was caused by the seemingly incompetent Dealership!

Unavailability of the loom is unfortunate, however in LR's defence, they would not expect that component to be required as a replacement spare part at such an early stage, thus could not be expected to have one immediately available.

It is financially impossible for a dealership to have EVERY possible part available ex stock as the cost would break the dealership.

I have an MY2000 Hilux 4WD and last month the local dealership did not have the small wiring lead from a junction to the oil pressure switch on the engine.
Should they have had it in stock?
They quoted me $16.85 plus air freight and ex Japan, 14 days minimum.
Made it myself for about $0.85 cents.
You've just pointed out the MAJOR difference, Toyota with a 20yr old part, probably out of production for over 10-15 years could fly it out from Japan, JLR with a 6 month old part, still AFAIK used to make them, either could not get one(does anyone believe that ?), or had no person or idea on how to fit/repair it. With modern tech, and the time zones not being to bad, they could have had a zoom call direct to the workshop floor and directed step by step......
If they cannot do it, a diagnostic scan tool isn't going to help at all.

[4bee]

You've just pointed out the MAJOR difference, Toyota with a 20yr old part, probably out of production for over 10-15 years could fly it out from Japan, JLR with a 6 month old part, still AFAIK used to make them, either could not get one(does anyone believe that ?), or had no person or idea on how to fit/repair it. With modern tech, and the time zones not being to bad, they could have had a zoom call direct to the workshop floor and directed step by step......
If they cannot do it, a diagnostic scan tool isn't going to help at all.


Re the cut through loom. If both ends were accessible I can't see why anyone in the Dealership who genuinely wanted to help, couldn't have bridged the cut, even temporarily, but no, stick it on the back burner until we get the easy part to fit. Shirley it couldn't be that hard if one can access the cable ends.[bighmmm]


OH bugger, they'd be paid out of the Warranty account for the labour I suspect, but will have a hard time convincing LR that it was faulty.

If Parts are held On Consignment & booked out electronically back to LR when used, it would be no skin off their nose.


A different story if they actually have to purchase parts from LR.


My advice to the current owner is to get shot of it before it really, really gets unreliable & buy a Series 1.[smilebigeye]

[Discodicky]

You've just pointed out the MAJOR difference, Toyota with a 20yr old part, probably out of production for over 10-15 years could fly it out from Japan, JLR with a 6 month old part, still AFAIK used to make them, either could not get one(does anyone believe that ?), or had no person or idea on how to fit/repair it. With modern tech, and the time zones not being to bad, they could have had a zoom call direct to the workshop floor and directed step by step......
If they cannot do it, a diagnostic scan tool isn't going to help at all.

I should have added that I didn't ask if it WAS available ex Japan.
The price put me off so I didn't go any further with the enquiry.
It may not have been available, full stop.
At 20yrs and a relatively minor part which can be made up, it may well have been NLA and I can understand that.

[scarry]

My advice to the current owner is to get shot of it before it really, really gets unreliable & buy a Series 1.[smilebigeye]

Great advice,

The one in my sig is still going fine, after 64 years, no issues with wiring looms, engine check lights, cameras,or PCB's,so far.[thumbsupbig]

Although its main issue is marking its territory wherever it goes....

[Tombie]

You've just pointed out the MAJOR difference, Toyota with a 20yr old part, probably out of production for over 10-15 years could fly it out from Japan, JLR with a 6 month old part, still AFAIK used to make them, either could not get one(does anyone believe that ?), or had no person or idea on how to fit/repair it. With modern tech, and the time zones not being to bad, they could have had a zoom call direct to the workshop floor and directed step by step......
If they cannot do it, a diagnostic scan tool isn't going to help at all.

A mechanic friend of mine was paid by Toyota to sort a Tarago for a client. It would cut out randomly.

Toyota had tried for 8 months to fix it and couldn’t. Replaced almost everything.

Mate sat down, untaped the entire loom from engine through firewall and found a tiny fracture in a couple of wires.

Toyota couldn’t fix it - he found it.
Toyota paid for an entire new loom to fit into the vehicle and my mates time. Cost something like 20k but Toyota Japan wanted to know why it was failing.

[scarry]

A mechanic friend of mine was paid by Toyota to sort a Tarago for a client. It would cut out randomly.

Toyota had tried for 8 months to fix it and couldn’t. Replaced almost everything.

Mate sat down, untaped the entire loom from engine through firewall and found a tiny fracture in a couple of wires.

Toyota couldn’t fix it - he found it.
Toyota paid for an entire new loom to fit into the vehicle and my mates time. Cost something like 20k but Toyota Japan wanted to know why it was failing.

A few years ago some of the LR Indies around here were sorting problem jobs for the LR dealers.

I dont know if they still do,probably not, as they are all very busy, up to 8 weeks behind in their own work.

[Old Farang]

A mechanic friend of mine was paid by Toyota to sort a Tarago for a client. It would cut out randomly.

Toyota had tried for 8 months to fix it and couldn’t. Replaced almost everything.

Mate sat down, untaped the entire loom from engine through firewall and found a tiny fracture in a couple of wires.

Toyota couldn’t fix it - he found it.
Toyota paid for an entire new loom to fit into the vehicle and my mates time. Cost something like 20k but Toyota Japan wanted to know why it was failing.

The Japs are paranoid about things that don't work as they are supposed to! I have seen a Jap engineer crying because he could not solve a problem!

[4bee]

A few years ago some of the LR Indies around here were sorting problem jobs for the LR dealers.

I dont know if they still do,probably not, as they are all very busy, up to 8 weeks behind in their own work.


So much for all that High Tech training & Gold Medals that LR Technicians are supposed to receive mentioned in their Sales Blurbs. It makes them sound like Supermen but in reality they struggle like many of us do when confronted with all the Hi Tech crap.

It is all bull****.

[scarry]

So much for all that High Tech training & Gold Medals that LR Technicians are supposed to receive mentioned in their Sales Blurbs. It makes them sound like Supermen but in reality they struggle like many of us do when confronted with all the Hi Tech crap.

It is all bull****.

It’s just an excuse to charge more,and we know they do a fantastic job of that.

[4bee]

It’s just an excuse to charge more,and we know they do a fantastic job of that.


I know why Paul. It covers the 24ct Land Rover Gold coveralls they wear & the use of 18ct gold spanners & stuff.

I'm not sure having "I worked for a Land Rover Dealer" on one's CV is any guarantee of success in applying for a quality job with any potential Employer these days.
I'm sure there are some excellent "Technicians" around, trying to find one is the challenge.
My one experience with a main dealer in the NE suburbs here back in '95 & comparing that experience with all the above makes me wonder whether anything at all has changed except the hourly Labour Rate.

[gromit]

I know why Paul. It covers the 24ct Land Rover Gold coveralls they wear & the use of 18ct gold spanners & stuff.

I'm not sure having "I worked for a Land Rover Dealer" on one's CV is any guarantee of success in applying for a quality job with any potential Employer these days.
I'm sure there are some excellent "Technicians" around, trying to find one is the challenge.
My one experience with a main dealer in the NE suburbs here back in '95 & comparing that experience with all the above makes me wonder whether anything at all has changed except the hourly Labour Rate.

I commented elsewhere on the forum that labour rates are directly proportional to the number of 'suits' in the dealership.
I had to take the FIL's motorhome into a Mercedes dealer a year or so ago, more suits than at Peter Jackson's, 6 glowplugs $1,700 !

One of my boys worked for LR locally as a pre-apprentice, he had quite a few stories....
Someone took in in older Disco (300Tdi) for a cambelt.
Job was started then someone decided to start the Disco to move it.....a few pushrods later. They replace the pushrods move it outside because something had higher priority and the cleaner started it to move it.....a few more pushrods !! Eventually the job was completed and the customer was none the wiser



Colin

[ozscott]

I just caught up.with the latest on TFL. What a **** show this has been through no fault of the TFL boys. The title.of the thread was prophetic it turns out. Really and truly I am extremely happy to still have a D2 but I cannot see a new LR purchase for me on the horizon (and I am not basing that just on TFL but the TFL experience alone would put a lot of people off). Cheers

[4bee]

I commented elsewhere on the forum that labour rates are directly proportional to the number of 'suits' in the dealership.
I had to take the FIL's motorhome into a Mercedes dealer a year or so ago, more suits than at Peter Jackson's, 6 glowplugs $1,700 !

One of my boys worked for LR locally as a pre-apprentice, he had quite a few stories....
Someone took in in older Disco (300Tdi) for a cambelt.
Job was started then someone decided to start the Disco to move it.....a few pushrods later. They replace the pushrods move it outside because something had higher priority and the cleaner started it to move it.....a few more pushrods !! Eventually the job was completed and the customer was none the wiser



Colin


And my above mentioned NE Dealer wanted $23 each for a Spark Plug x 8 =$184 Just a common std. old garden type spark plug suitable for the V8i.

Told them to shove it. Went to Target & bought same for about $4 each back then. $32.[bighmmm]

[DiscoDB]

The TFL guys have previously been really impressed with the D2 and even the D3.

I think what their experience with the New Defender is it just proves you don’t want to buy the first version of any new model - no matter how desirable or capable they are.

The Series II ‘new’ Defender will be the pick of the bunch - just like the D2 was and the 2.7 D4 still is.

But we still need to be grateful to and encourage the people who buy the current New Defender. [emoji106]

[scarry]

And my above mentioed NE Dealer wanted $23 each for a Spark Plug x 8 =$184 Just a common std. old garden type spark plug suitable for the V8i.

Told them to shove it. Went to Target & bought same for about $4 each back then. $32.[bighmmm]

When looking through the file with the D4 receipts,i came across one for an oil change, done at the dealer.
I think I had them do it as it was between services and it was there for some warranty work.
Ten years ago they charged me almost double for a sump full, than MR Auto(LR Indie) did last February.[bigsad]

A check what the Toyota dealers cost on an invoice, for one of the diesel vans, for a sump full of exactly same oil as MR,and its within a couple of dollars per litre.

So if Tojo dealer can price sensibly, why cant LR?

Labour rates at MR auto are about the same as Tojo dealer,LR rates are over double.

Thats the main reason why the LR Indies are so busy.

There is no way LR dealers are value for money.

[4bee]

When looking through the file with the D4 receipts,i came across one for an oil change, done at the dealer.
I think I had them do it as it was between services and it was there for some warranty work.
Ten years ago they charged me almost double for a sump full, than MR Auto(LR Indie) did last February.[bigsad]

A check what the Toyota dealers cost on an invoice, for one of the diesel vans, for a sump full of exactly same oil as MR,and its within a couple of dollars per litre.


So if Tojo dealer can price sensibly, why cant LR?

Labour rates at MR auto are about the same as Tojo dealer,LR rates are over double.

Thats the main reason why the LR Indies are so busy.

There is no way LR dealers are value for money.





So if Tojo dealer can price sensibly, why cant LR?

One word, 5 letters, begins with a G.

[PerthDisco]

Interesting summary given his LR background and now Tojo fanboy status. I tend to agree although his comments on long term LR maintenance costs do sting a bit.

Falls into my rule of never buy the first of any new model ever never mind how many laps of the universe it has done in testing.



DEFENDER REALITY CHECK. How can a 4WD score high on on-road ability but low as an off-roader? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Dxt_j9qy51U)

[scarry]

Yes he does have some good points.

Although he is completely wrong about the ride.If its similar to D4,its way better, and will handle better than a 200,although the 200 has much more comfortable seats than D4(in my opinion).

You cant beat the ride and handling of IS and EAS.

My thoughts are it shouldn't have been called a Defender,the Defender is a completely different vehicle, in every way.

Holden did it with the Dunny Dore,Ford got rid of the Falcon name, which was the right thing to do, although they didn't have anything like a replacement for it.

[PerthDisco]

Doug’s locked and loaded. I pray for LR this goes better than TFL.

I Bought a New 2020 Land Rover Defender! (And Here's Why) - YouTube (https://youtu.be/x97uTUHlGw4)

[Tombie]

One word, 5 letters, begins with a G.

Volume? [emoji41]

[Tombie]

Had some interesting Chats with a few in the 4wd and over landing game in South Africa.

Seems he was quite the “cash for comment” fellow and would throw tantrums when manufacturers & workshops wouldn’t fit all their new gear for free in exchange for public comment.

As they cut him off the tantrums got worse.

He’s technically inept - and when it’s highlighted on his videos the comments get shut down.

I wouldn’t listen to a thing he has to say.

[4bee]

Volume? [emoji41]


Jesuz Mike. I thought you at least could count up to five.[bigrolf]

It must be fun fun fun around you workplace when the guys plant the explosive charges if you taught them.:oops2::Rolling:

[scarry]

OK,back to fitting winches, this will interest many on here no doubt.

Part one of 4.

Land Rover Defender 2020 Winch Bumper Install Part 1 - Unboxing & Front End Strip Down - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlq6bzHqWa4)

Certainly a bit more complicated than fitting a winch to the old Defender.....[bighmmm][biggrin]

It just shows how complicated this thing is.

[travelrover]

OK,back to fitting winches, this will interest many on here no doubt.

Part one of 4.

Land Rover Defender 2020 Winch Bumper Install Part 1 - Unboxing & Front End Strip Down - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlq6bzHqWa4)

Certainly a bit more complicated than fitting a winch to the old Defender.....[bighmmm][biggrin]

It just shows how complicated this thing is.

I think it is five parts now! Yes very complex and Simon points out some crazy Land Rover instructions and comes up with more practical solutions. Seems they haven’t thought some of this stuff through...

[AK83]

....

Certainly a bit more complicated than fitting a winch to the old Defender.....[bighmmm][biggrin]

It just shows how complicated this thing is.

What this version of a winch install appears to highlight is how incompetent LR trained workshops must be.
Nowhere in that vid did it show any complicated 'loom' that could not potentially be cut and not repaired in some way(as compared to TFL).

Would be interesting to see exactly what loom they cut in the TFL saga.
Only one that easily comes to mind from the video series linked too above is the camera wiring. (part 1 at 20:20)
Other than this wire type, what makes latest generation LR wires so hard to repair?


More complicated modern cars .. did we really expect anything else?
A current model cruiser or hilux is more complicated than an 'analogue' model without airbags, crash cans, radar cruise... blah blah.

All modern vehicles are more complicated to do any modifications too, because that's what manufacturers seem to think we all want. That's the price of progress(safety/features/comfort/etc).
I suspect that with the active market,, there is a fair bit of built in deliberate complication from the manufacturer.
Most active lifestyle .. so called SUV market vehicles are fashion accessories(to the customer). They care very little for the ability of the vehicle or the accessory fitted .. it just has to look good.
Accessories are a good profit earner for both manufacturer and dealer. Make the vehicle more simple and every mug and his half baked mate will get into accessory manufacturing.
Make it more complicated, and potentially dangerous to mod a vehicle = $ for the manufacturer.

I think LR clearly shows this type of marketing strategy here.

[scarry]

What this version of a winch install appears to highlight is how incompetent LR trained workshops must be.
Nowhere in that vid did it show any complicated 'loom' that could not potentially be cut and not repaired in some way(as compared to TFL).

Would be interesting to see exactly what loom they cut in the TFL saga.
Only one that easily comes to mind from the video series linked too above is the camera wiring. (part 1 at 20:20)
Other than this wire type, what makes latest generation LR wires so hard to repair?


We will never know the truth about the two TFL issues, and exactly what happened.
The dealers will say anything.

It would only take an electrical plug to get damaged by a tech or one to fall apart, and that could be called as a damaged wiring loom,probably cut when trying to fix it.

LR seem to be experts at over complicating everything, those louvres seem another complication, and something else to fail.

I have found every LR dealer I have ever used absolutely hopeless,and this issue seems very common going on posts on here over the years.

[PhilipA]

This comes about from the very low volume of sales.

Land Rover is a second or third franchise for most dealers and training is probably limited to one mechanic, who may leave or be sick or on holidays.

Mix that with the bewildering array of computers and wiring in the modern Land Rovers and that is the outcome, of course as well as poor quality control.

How many different computers are in a new Defender?
It also looks like there are some quality problems with the Ingenium engines if reports of low compression and engine replacement are true.

I have to hand it to Toyota who generally are very conservative in trend setting new advances, but they usually work when they are introduced.

Regards PhilipA

[RANDLOVER]

We will never know the truth about the two TFL issues, and exactly what happened.
The dealers will say anything.

It would only take an electrical plug to get damaged by a tech or one to fall apart, and that could be called as a damaged wiring loom, probably cut when trying to fix it...........

Or even worse, they cut some wiring while it was still live and have blown up some electronic module/s.

[Robmacca]

Here's another video of a customer's experience with the new Defender:

***Link deleted due to language***

Edit - Anyone can find this by searching for John Cadogan or Auto Expert on Youtube - it's his latest video.

[Homestar]

Just a friendly reminder that links to videos with bad language cannot be posted on AULRO as this breaches the Adsense rules the same as typing the same words does - but at least we have the swear filter to pick those up. [smilebigeye]

[ramblingboy42]

so, was it any good Gav?

[PhilipA]

It's only Diehard Land Rover masochists or totally smitten dreamers who buy new Land Rovers now anyway. Look in the current posts. One 2015 which has the gearshift break and a 2020 Disco Sport with the same problem. Now that is what I call slow learners at LR.

look at the sales figures.

In any case the example by Cadogan is a bit weak with the bloke complaining about no native wifi.

No hairy chested bearded LR freak would even know what wifi was!

I wonder if these things will actually affect LR sales such as they are .Isn't it enough that they have been last for several years on J D power or Choice UK saying Don't buy Disco Sports in particular?

Regards PhilipA

[Homestar]

so, was it any good Gav?

The video? Go have a look, easy to find. Personally I was more gob smacked at the story of the wiring loom that was accidentally cut at the dealers fitting a winch - which rendered the vehicle unrepairable - loom couldn’t be repaired nor replaced - now that’s a worry IMO - you could end up with a write off if the loom was damaged and it’s obviously at the front of the vehicle so no idea what’s going on there.

[rick130]

It's only Diehard Land Rover masochists or totally smitten dreamers who buy new Land Rovers now anyway. Look in the current posts. One 2015 which has the gearshift break and a 2020 Disco Sport with the same problem. Now that is what I call slow learners at LR.

look at the sales figures.

In any case the example by Cadogan is a bit weak with the bloke complaining about no native wifi.

No hairy chested bearded LR freak would even know what wifi was!

I wonder if these things will actually affect LR sales such as they are .Isn't it enough that they have been last for several years on J D power or Choice UK saying Don't buy Disco Sports in particular?

Regards PhilipAAnd Cadogan has stated in a recent vid that he's loved pretty much every Land Rover he's ever driven, but buying one is a different story.
And he owned a Tdi 110 for a number of years back in the 90's and loved it, in the masochistic way Deefer drivers do [emoji16]

[PerthDisco]

Tech has its place but the acceleration in tech since the D3 SE is astronomical so there’s bound to be a few issues. It’s like comparing an Apollo rocket with the Space Shuttle when looking at the new Deefer. It looks like driving an IPhone. As we know with rockets and planes a few go bang even given the zillions spent.

There’s a lot to love about the single turbo with stick select 6 speed auto. Looks like a comparative Stone Age tool by comparison to those models that followed.

[Tombie]

The video? Go have a look, easy to find. Personally I was more gob smacked at the story of the wiring loom that was accidentally cut at the dealers fitting a winch - which rendered the vehicle unrepairable - loom couldn’t be repaired nor replaced - now that’s a worry IMO - you could end up with a write off if the loom was damaged and it’s obviously at the front of the vehicle so no idea what’s going on there.

Loom couldn’t be replaced because there is a shortage of spares at the moment. That is all.

The current European issues are reducing stock availability. Toyota here is having same problem with some spare parts.

[Tombie]

It's only Diehard Land Rover masochists or totally smitten dreamers who buy new Land Rovers now anyway. Look in the current posts. One 2015 which has the gearshift break and a 2020 Disco Sport with the same problem. Now that is what I call slow learners at LR.

look at the sales figures.

In any case the example by Cadogan is a bit weak with the bloke complaining about no native wifi.

No hairy chested bearded LR freak would even know what wifi was!

I wonder if these things will actually affect LR sales such as they are .Isn't it enough that they have been last for several years on J D power or Choice UK saying Don't buy Disco Sports in particular?

Regards PhilipA

Hardly a problem. Plenty of old transmissions and gear shifts have broken leaving drivers stuck in old Landies.

The 2015 issue could have been fixed with 1 part of so desired and ordered.

[Discodicky]

Here's another video of a customer's experience with the new Defender:

***Link deleted due to language***

Edit - Anyone can find this by searching for John Cadogan or Auto Expert on Youtube - it's his latest video.

Up in a (Launceston) Nthn Tasmanian people's park there are a dozen or more monkeys, can't recall their breed, however they seem very intelligent and provide much amusement and interest for my grandchildren whenever we visit the Nthn end of the State.
I don't mind watching their antics either.

Frankly, I'd bet good money that any one of those monkeys could provide a more interesting, more meaningful and much less dramatic overview of ANY vehicle, let alone the new Defender, than Mr. Cadogan.
It's got me completely flummoxed why people watch that fella on U-tube other than maybe for a good laugh.
Surely no one takes him seriously????
"Auto Expert"..... you'd have to be joking!

[Robmacca]

Here's another video of a customer's experience with the new Defender:

***Link deleted due to language***

Edit - Anyone can find this by searching for John Cadogan or Auto Expert on Youtube - it's his latest video.

Sorry.... I forgot about that... :(

[jspyle]

TFL updated their status, they have a new 6 cylinder hybrid and seem content.
Cadogan and the other guy Andrew St Pierre White are entertainment, they may have been relevant once but are now playing to their media personas. Having said that Cadogan has done some interesting pieces, I've had an "ah ha" moment or two, and Andrew has some good footage, just put him on mute.

Powerful UK did a good YouTube series on fitting a winch to their Defender, with an interesting twist. They also referenced TFL and the spares issue.

[4bee]

Here's another video of a customer's experience with the new Defender:

***Link deleted due to language***

Edit - Anyone can find this by searching for John Cadogan or Auto Expert on Youtube - it's his latest video.



***Link deleted due to language***


Quite proper too. Who in the hell can ever understand Asterisks.:Rolling:

[Homestar]

Quite proper too. Who in the hell can ever understand Asterisks.:Rolling:

*** Please report to the office immediately ***

[Discodicky]

TFL updated their status, they have a new 6 cylinder hybrid and seem content.
Cadogan and the other guy Andrew St Pierre White are entertainment, they may have been relevant once but are now playing to their media personas. Having said that Cadogan has done some interesting pieces, I've had an "ah ha" moment or two, and Andrew has some good footage, just put him on mute.

Powerful UK did a good YouTube series on fitting a winch to their Defender, with an interesting twist. They also referenced TFL and the spares issue.

Major parts sourcing problems starting to rear their ugly head due to COVID and factories shutting down.
The earthmoving industry is starting to experience it, particularly with parts sourced from Europe.
Parts availability drying up and the fact that factories have been closed for so long, no replenishment has occurred.
Can expect this problem for next 3 or 4 months so get used to Suppliers blaming COVID; it's true.

[4bee]

*** Please report to the office immediately ***



Like I was saying. [bigrolf]

[scarry]

Major parts sourcing problems starting to rear their ugly head due to COVID and factories shutting down.
The earthmoving industry is starting to experience it, particularly with parts sourced from Europe.
Parts availability drying up and the fact that factories have been closed for so long, no replenishment has occurred.
Can expect this problem for next 3 or 4 months so get used to Suppliers blaming COVID; it's true.

Problems on the wharf in Qld haven’t helped either.

Some brands and models of AC units have been out of stock for months with no ETA available.

Spare parts haven’t really been an issue.

[RANDLOVER]

TFL updated their status, they have a new 6 cylinder hybrid and seem content.
Cadogan and the other guy Andrew St Pierre White are entertainment, they may have been relevant once but are now playing to their media personas. Having said that Cadogan has done some interesting pieces, I've had an "ah ha" moment or two, and Andrew has some good footage, just put him on mute.

Powerful UK did a good YouTube series on fitting a winch to their Defender, with an interesting twist. They also referenced TFL and the spares issue.

Powerful's other video showing the process of updating the software was a bit of a drama.