sticky problem need assistance

[AT]

I have a problem and running out of ideas ;)

1. The baby
2003 Defender TD5

2. The Problem / Symptoms
Heres the problem.. Fuel pump dont seem to want to start at times during initial ignition ( cant fire up the baby). At times when its fired up. It dies off on its own. sometimes while driving it totally shut down(not often but its scary ;P ) Have read the workshop manual have basically trace all the path the wires take and replaced all fuse that is used.
When its gonna happen during the first start up, usually i dun see an engine and a coil light on the dashboard.

3. Steps already done
initially thought it was the battery so i changed the whole battery but it doesnt seem to work.Then i thought it was the fuses, saw some discoloring on the fuses. thought it might be affecting it. so i changed all the fuses. i changed the fuse with the diagram of a coil and an engine with a lighting across it in the passenger compart.. i read the workshop manual and changed the fusible fuse 4 in the engine compartment. as well. seem to work but the problem persist. I replace the connector module at the end of the ignition switch thinking the connections may be loose or burnt like my headlamp switch. but it doesnt remedy the problem.

4. Recovery steps when it happens
when i have difficulty starting up ... this is wat i did. im not sure which steps did the trick but i did all the steps anyways in no particular order
a. i disconnect the battery..
b. i press the ecu reset button in the hood(sometimes it work sometimes it doesnt)
c. i remove the 2 fuses in the passenger compartment and the single fuse in the engine compartment using the same fuse, i put it back in.

5. HELP!!!!!
all this steps works either together or on its own.. i cant isolate the solution. but i suspect all the steps i did kind of reset the ecu so when i turn on the ignition, the ecu sends signals to the fuel pump. the fustrating stuff is i cant fix the problem cuz im not sure what causes it. does anyone ever encountered such problem before? any solutions to it?

:confused:

[kie4]

Hi Take the two plugs off (cant remember which one is for engine) the ecu and check to see if oil is present.on the older models oil escapes out of the engine via the injector wiring loom, runs down inside the engine harness and ends up in the ecu. If this is the case the only real solution is to replace the injector end engine harness. The new injector harness is made to stop this problem.
Just one idea
Cheers
Richard

[Scouse]

We had one like this that took weeks to find the problem.
The starter motor was drawing too much current & affecting the ECU. LR issued a notice to dealers about it - I'll see if I can dig it up. IIRC, the fault is only detected on an oscilloscope.

Is it still under warranty or was it reported under warranty ?

[disconut]

I have only ever had two electrical problems with wierd symptoms.


Dirty earth on the battery caused all sorts of lights on the dash to come up and no start.

Back of the ign switch was loose and came off eventually.
Trev.

[Cruiser]

Try changing the battery in your remote control.

The remote contol is the engine emobilizer.

Your car will not start if no remote and only using a key.

[AT]

Hi Take the two plugs off (cant remember which one is for engine) the ecu and check to see if oil is present.on the older models oil escapes out of the engine via the injector wiring loom, runs down inside the engine harness and ends up in the ecu. If this is the case the only real solution is to replace the injector end engine harness. The new injector harness is made to stop this problem.
Just one idea
Cheers
Richard

Thanks Richard, will do that in the morning... but i got mine in end 2003, not sure if they fixed the problem but will check it out

[AT]

scouse >> its still under warranty but i really hate to bring it back to the agent.. u see, i have done abit of offroading :) and install dual batteries all on my own.. i know they would just say that ive fiddle with the electrical and damage it but all this happened out of the blue. i want to just hopefully find the fault and remedy it if its within my means.. i hope u could dig that info out. i have a digital volt reader connected to both batteries and when i crank... it register a batt low not sure if its the norm. that info would be helpful thanks :)

Disconut>> my lights doesnt flash and my earthing seems fine(i think :)) i have changed the back of the ignition module to a new one and it doesnt work. thanks for the suggestion.. i would appreciate any other suggestions...feel free to bombard me with suggestions...im willing to try everything.

crusier>> by remote do u mean my car alarm? i do not have an alarm installed in the car.. bad experence with car alarms sometime back.. im using a heavy duty paddlock.. i feel it looks more intimidating then a small lil red light blinking by the corner.. :)

thanks for all your feedback.. appreciate it.. im still tackling it.. heres an idea i have but not sure if its the problem. maybe you guys could help me see if its the likely case.

i read on another forum http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php't=24091&highlight=fuel+pump

the problem sounds kind of unsimilar to mine but theres a reply about coolant sensor. i checked out the workshop manual on engine management and coolant sensor.
it all sounded unlikely until i remember at one of the cant start up sessions i have. :) i notice the temp guage was at the far end of the hot section, i didnt think much of it until i read the forum where it says
when the temp sensorl go high up, the ecu( too intelligent a bugger) will in order to prevent any damage immobilze the vehicle.
now im just waiting for it to happen again so that i can double check on the temp guage. there is a listing of symtoms if the senosr fails i cant really rememeber all but theres a few that caught my eyes.

1.difficult cold start
2.difficult hot start
(well basically mine cant start :/ and i didnt want to push my luck by being too persistance in cranking..didnt want to damage any other stuff)
3.drivability concerns
(does it mean stalling cuz my did stall while driving)
4.temp guage shoots up
(mine did. will double confirm on this)

the question is .. could it be the likely cause or am i just trying to pin all the problem on the coolant sensor cuz im getting fustrated. need a second opinion from a netural point of view?


PS: my posts are a little lengthy hope u guys dun mind, im just trying to describe as best i can

[Cruiser]

Sorry meant central locking remote control fob.

[barryj]

It might be something you have already checked but is the fuel pump OK?

I understand that several people in this site have had pumps fail. There was a recent post on this. One guy was getting heaps of crap in the pump from the tank.

Barry

[landrovermick]

if you take it back shouldnt they be able to put it on the test book and have it tell them what the problem is - thay shouldnt worry about the batter situation as duel batteries are a legit upgrade.....

mick

[Scouse]

PM sent AT.
The dual battery set-up can easily be reverted back to standard if needs be.
I think it needs some professional diagnosis. Failing that, take it to a dealer :).

If you update your profile with your location, maybe we can recommend someone who might be able to help.

[AT]

scouse>> thanks for the info its really helpful. will bring it back. made an appointment smetime next week. will keep you guys posted on the outcome if anybody is interrested. its an intermitant problem and i hope the ecu doesnt get its mem wipe out from all my disconnecting of the battery...

thanks guys you've been most helpful

[LandyAndy]

Hi At
How long since a service was done??? Have you tried Biodiesel at all.Wondering if its a blocked fuel filter.
Keep us informed.
Andrew

[AT]

thanks for all the info guys... found the problem... its the fuel pump relay... the trigger mechanism was faulty.. if anyone is interested in the whole story pls read below.

day 1 morning: went back to the workshop. car was still fine and they couldnt read any error code frm the ecu. so they just did a servicing check. couldnt blame them at all. they changed a new diaper for me (the air filter) and clean up the car's exhaust. i wasnt at all convinced but accepted it anyway cuz the car was drivable..

i told them if it stalled again i will not try to recover the vehicle and will tow it back on their account and they said ok. very kind of them. :)

day1 nite. true enough it stalled right in the middle of the highway and i didnt even want to attempt recovering the vehicle. had to suppress the offroad instinct to recover the vehicle at all means :).. and heres the interesting part. you guys have just met the worlds most unlucky dude on that day.
badluck number 1: as i was smiling and picking up the phone, the battery went dead on me...:/ ...now im starting to panic.

badluck number 2 :and i didnt bring my wallet out that day ehehheeh...couldnt take a cab. i manage to dug out a buck frm the car seat. must be one of the many coins that was dropped while driving wasnt enough though. i manage to "hijack" a cabbie wanted to give hime a buck to use his handphone which he rejected. very kind of him.. :)

badluck number 3: called the towing service from the dealer but the number wasnt in use.. apparently it was changed a year ago as i found out.

had to call a private towing service... had to pay for it myself..:/

when i was recovering the vehicle all those times, the ecu was reset. no error code.. in the morning the first thing they did was plug it in and the error code was shown.. it was the fuel pump relay...

so to summerize,
1. make sure your mobile is fully charged at all times when u are waiting for the vehicle to breakdwn. :)
2. if you hear coins falling out of the pocket onto the car seat.. just keep it there as part of emergency funds :)
3. where possible if its still under warranty, dun try to be too smart. ask for a tow :)

[Rovernaut]

Not sure if the fuel pump has a relay, but a slicky relay can cause intermittant problems. I had an intermittant fault with my A/C, the relay wouldn't hold a current. I swapped it and all was good