Multiple faults recorded

[p38arover]

Coming home this arvo, I noticed that the Message Centre screen showed Air Suspension Inactive, and the Dynamic Stabilty Control, Emergency Braking Assist, and ABS lights were on.

I did a quick check with my GAP IID Tool bu it gives fault codes in hexadecimal so I got the big guns out - this time the Textbook T4 - mainly because it was a bit more convenient than the Faultmate at the time. The GAP IID did show the battery voltage at 12.2V

A check with the T4 showed the EAS has a CAN Bus fault, the ABS has a pre-charge pump fault. The Lighting Check Module has a fault related to the Traction Control and ABS.

I might try the Faultmate, too, as it give a bit more info. (The T4 does give suggestions on what to look for.)

I'm starting to wonder if I have battery issue.

Vehicle is a 2003 4.4 M62 petrol.

[NUTTTR]

Sounds like battery or charging...

They tend to go bonkers once the battery dies, or when the battery is even considering dying. So start there if it's old.

Check while running that it's 13+ even with a bad battery the alternator should be able to keep up!

Was the ABS light red or yellow? I had issues with heat affecting my ABS connector expanding it just enough so one of the main power connections weren't allowing enough power through... which would then throw up the 3 amigos... Luckily mine was a connector issue and i've managed to dodgily fix it.

[p38arover]

The ABS light was amber.

From my reading of RAVE, it looks like it’s all tied to a DSC fault.
Maybe the precharge pump. That won’t be cheap. But who wants to buy one on spec?

A DSC fault disables the air suspension locking it in highway mode for increased roll stability.

[NUTTTR]

Could just be a random CANBUS error....?

[justinc]

Can also be a SAS fault. Mine was a Xmas tree of lights and a few seemingly unrelated systems , however the SAS wouldn't calibrate so it was the culprit after all.

[irubix]

That sir, is the 3 amigos.

Ive had to repair my ABS module before where it was exhibiting the same thing. Pretty common fault at the age of the car, especially if you take her off road. They have electrical connectors that are fine as hair on the board that can come loose. However, if the fault is recorded as pre charge...

The pump is controlled directly by the DSC module that is bolted to the ASC block. Operation is tested by an expected rise in fluid pressure at the ASC block as detected by the pressure sensor.

That means that there are a few possibilities, the pump does not produce any pressure although it runs, the pressure sensor is faulty, the DSC controller driver has failed or the DSC unit controller is faulty and a false error message is being reported.

The usual symptoms of a failed pre-charge system is that the ABS, ASC and Brake warning lights illuminate as the car is accelerated.

Take a gander at section 2 here!
BMW E38 ABS DSC Brake Failure Repair 735i 740i 750i (http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e38/ABS/Index.htm)

My money is on the DSC module itself.

R

[irubix]

Some light reading attached from the irubix archive.

[p38arover]

Thanks for the linked article. Last night I cleared the faults that I could - the ABS and EBA warning lights were extinguished. The DSC light couldn't be cleared. The light in the DSC switch is off and won't turn on.

I put an Autologic diagnostic system onto it today and I still have the CAN Bus error on the EAS. I also see a CAN Bus fault on the Steering Angle Sensor. That might need recalibrating.

I did a couple of trips today, each of about 25km/30mins at varying speeds from light traffic to 80km/h on inter-urban roads. There has been no recurrence of the ABS and EBA warning lights coming on.

I will try powering the pre-charge pump directly to see if it runs but that article appears to indicate the pump may not be the problem. I will have to re-read it.

I'm not sure how long the car will stay up if the EAS isn't running.

[p38arover]

I just remembered...

Yesterday, when I took the car off charge, and hopped in to start it, I saw the clock rapidly adjusting to the correct time. I hadn't noticed the time previously showing on the clock.

Normally, that only happens if the battery has been disconnected.

[NUTTTR]

I'd definitely suggest battery causing some form of canbus issue (clock is driven by canbus or k-bus from memory)

[irubix]

If youre low on charge, normally you'll get the revs hovering at 1k rpm when at idle. If it drops below 12 that is.

Could be le battery! :)

[landie56]

Hi,

My was Sas sensor that gave the dreaded 3 amigo's, so l replace it, then got diagnostic tool to clear the codes, as you need to put car vin number on sensor chip to work with car.

All works perfectly now.

Rangie10

Range Rover 2002 owner

[p38arover]

I fitted a new battery but that made no difference.

I had a look inside the ABS module and saw several broken wires. I decided that I didn't think I should attempt repairs so it has been sent to the UK for repair by ACtronics. They only deal with automotive repairers so I had KLR Automotive send it off to them. (The company only deals with automotive repair workshops, not private individuals hence the need to have KLR send it off.)

Their video makes me think they'll do a good job of repair. A new unit is about $1,200, repair is $300.

The connection pads on the PC board are very small and it would be easy to lift them thus ruining the board.


https://youtu.be/NxumtQskqTY

[irubix]

I sent mine to these guys locally in Aus (for future forum reference).

ABS Module Repair – Specialised Automotive Electronics remanufacture in Sydney (absrepair.com.au) (https://www.absrepair.com.au/)

No issues so far!

[p38arover]

I looked at their website but noticed while they say:


RANGE ROVER and LAND ROVER 2002-2012

Common Symptoms of a Faulty Unit: Steering Light On, Speedo Not Working, Wheel Speed Sensor Faults

ABS Light On, Traction Light On, Handbrake Light On, No Communication via OBD, Pressure Sensor Faults, Brakes Juddering

Your module repaired for $385.00

They also say this about BMW units:


These modules have proven to be an unreliable repair and we are no longer accepting these for repair or testing

built between 2000- 2004

BMW E39 & E53
BMW 523 BMW 528
BMW 535 BMW 540
BMW 7 Series
BMW 725 BMW 728
BMW 730 BMW 735
BMW 740 BMW 745 BMW 750
BMW X5

Aren't the RR units the same as the BMW units of the same era?

[irubix]

Yep same same. Interesting, i didn't see that on the website.. Fair play sending it to the UK. I wonder if the Aus company resin sets + re attaches all wires. If they are only fixing broken ones, more are liable to break i can only assume.

[FisherX]

Welcome to DiagnosDan.

What a rabbit hole you will follow when you start watching his videos.

Can-bus Trouble - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKnQI2IScPU)

[p38arover]

Welcome to DiagnosDan.

What a rabbit hole you will follow when you start watching his videos.

Can-bus Trouble - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKnQI2IScPU)

Sorry, I'd missed this. Thank you. I'm now getting the Trans Failsafe Prog error (see Trans Failsafe Prog - L322 V8 ZF 5HP24 DTC P1845 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l322-range-rover/285840-trans-failsafe-prog-l322-v8-zf-5hp24-dtc-p1845.html))

I'm now watching the video. I note he's using an AutoLogic diagnostic system (I've used KLR's). I note he says the transmission needs the road speed info to know when to change gears. Mine seems to be changing gears OK.

I shall have to check the resistance across the CAN bus with the ABS module out. If I see 120 ohms, then I'll know one of the terminating resistors normally resides in the ABS module. His video indicates it does. I can easily slide in a 120 ohm resistor to properly terminate the CAN Bus.

I really need some of those very fine probes he was using.

My module was posted (Express Post $42) by KLR on 20th April. This is the tracking information from Auspost:
Who knows where it is but it's been processed by an air carrier three times. Service by Auspost was quick but not after it left them.

Processed by air carrier
Fri 14 May, 8.16am

Processed by air carrier
Mon 3 May, 11.30am

Processed by air carrier
Sat 24 Apr, 5.44pm

Cleared and awaiting international departure
SYDNEY NSW
Wed 21 Apr, 3.12am

Item processed at facility
SYDNEY WEST NSW
Wed 21 Apr, 12.20am

Item processed at facility
SYDNEY WEST NSW
Tue 20 Apr, 7.28pm

Arrived at facility
SYDNEY NSW
Tue 20 Apr, 7.28pm

Received by Australia Post
SOUTH WINDSOR NSW
Tue 20 Apr, 2.54pm

[NUTTTR]

Yep same same. Interesting, i didn't see that on the website.. Fair play sending it to the UK. I wonder if the Aus company resin sets + re attaches all wires. If they are only fixing broken ones, more are liable to break i can only assume.


Maybe they just haven't had the same amount of failures for RR?? Very odd. I emailed them today to ask about dropping it off and they said it was fine and I can drop it in and that they repair them...

Ironically mine has been repaired in the past about 3 years ago by the previous owner, so maybe that's why they don't repair them any more...

Sending to the UK sounds like a right pain, especially at the moment with shipping issues and covid.

Their website also doesn't say that from what I can see anymore...

[NUTTTR]

Sorry, I'd missed this. Thank you. I'm now getting the Trans Failsafe Prog error (see Trans Failsafe Prog - L322 V8 ZF 5HP24 DTC P1845 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l322-range-rover/285840-trans-failsafe-prog-l322-v8-zf-5hp24-dtc-p1845.html))

I'm now watching the video. I note he's using an AutoLogic diagnostic system (I've used KLR's). I note he says the transmission needs the road speed info to know when to change gears. Mine seems to be changing gears OK.

I shall have to check the resistance across the CAN bus with the ABS module out. If I see 120 ohms, then I'll know one of the terminating resistors normally resides in the ABS module. His video indicates it does. I can easily slide in a 120 ohm resistor to properly terminate the CAN Bus.

I really need some of those very fine probes he was using.

My module was posted (Express Post $42) by KLR on 20th April. This is the tracking information from Auspost:
Who knows where it is but it's been processed by an air carrier three times. Service by Auspost was quick but not after it left them.


Not sure I should even mention this, but I dropped mine (module) off yesterday before lunch and fitted it back on in their car park after lunch today and drove a whole trip without a Bong, for basically the first time since I got the car! Mine has been previously repaired about 3 years ago by the previous owner.

Total cost was $385.

[p38arover]

I shall have to check the resistance across the CAN bus with the ABS module out. If I see 120 ohms, then I'll know one of the terminating resistors normally resides in the ABS module. His video indicates it does. I can easily slide in a 120 ohm resistor to properly terminate the CAN Bus.

I measured and got 120 ohms so I fitted another 120 ohm terminating resistor. The resistance now measures 60 ohm.

(for the mathematically inclined this formula covers what I did:

1/Rtotal = 1/R1 + 1/R2
i.e., 1/Rtotal = 1/120 +1/120 = 2/120
therefore Rtotal= 120/2 = 60

or, if you prefer:

171055
Rtotal = 120*120/(120+120)
= 14,400/240 = 60