Towing a caravan going offroad

[henrie]

Hi, I am new to this so please forgive me if I do this wrong. We hope to take delivery of our TD6 Range Rover sports in aug/sept and will be going offroad a fair bit. We are looking to buy a van and went to the brisbane caravan show, we fell in love with the Kedron vans which will go offroad and not fall apart. Could anyone give me their advice/experience on towing weights, we do not want to be out in the bush and have no power left from having too much weight behind and nothing left to get us out of trouble. I know we can tow 3500kg but I'm thinking it would be stupid to have the van at max weight.Years ago range rover used to have 4000kg capacity but now only3500kg, is anyone towing 3000kg plus and how does your vehicle handle the weight and perform? On the Kedron dvds, all the vehicles are toyota's but we don't like the landcruiser. Thanks Henrie:confused:

[one_iota]

Forgive the gap in transmission Henrie....we have all turned green with envy;)

I'm sure some one will pipe up with some informed advice...welcome:D

[disconut]

Check your handbook, I think you will find LR only recommend 1000kgs for off road towing. Following is for Disco II.

Maximum permissible towed weights On-road / Off-road
Unbraked trailers 750 kg (1653 lb) .................. 750 kg (1653 lb)
Trailers with overrun brakes 3500 kg (7716 lb) .....1000 kg (2204 lb)

Trev.

[DiscoTDI]

That also depends on what you consider off road:)

[George130]

For on road towing you won't notice it. Very impressed with the TD5 for towing so the TDV6 should be even better. Now I have to go and paint over the green;)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Dont use sway bars--

I am so green,,,,:mrgreen:

[Dreamn]

I hope it’s ok to resurrect an old thread like this. Being new to the forum scene I’m unclear on the etiquette. Hopefully my wife and I will take possession of a new Lotus Trooper Caravan in April, 2011. Off the top of my head the tare of the van is around 2200kg and the ATM around 3000 kg so we are also in search of an adequate tow vehicle. We had considered travelling the Gibb River Road in the Kimberlys (depending on the severity of the road conditions at the time) amongst other offroad destinations. Given our budget, a 2003/2004 discovery TD5 seemed to tick most of the boxes that we are looking for in the tow vehicle but now it seems that I have hit a stumbling block with Diconuts comments on the offroad towing restrictions and also comments made here http://www.discoverdownunder.com.au/mydownunder/forums/forumid/18/postid/1082/view/topic.aspx (http://www.discoverdownunder.com.au/mydownunder/forums/forumid/18/postid/1082/view/topic.aspx) that also states a max ball weight of 50kg offroad. I am sure that the vehicle would likely handle it however my greatest concern is Insurance restrictions. Can somebody shed some light on this for me or direct me to a thread that i have overlooked in my searches or am I destined to spend a little more on a landcruiser? J

[101RRS]

All of the major manufacturers have similar weight restrictions when towing off road as Land Rover but they are not as up front in advertising the fact.

Remember though, offroad is offroad, not bad dirt roads.

[Dreamn]

Thanks garrycol. I guess i was mistakenly defining offroad as "offbitumen" . Thanks for the clarification and the quick reply.

[zulu Delta 534]

Most "Off Road" vans are simply caravans with a higher stance and a slightly beefed up suspension and sometimes, chassis.
I have a 535 Coromal pop top (highway job) that is about 15 or more years old now and when we go out camping I took it wherever my mate took his Kedron Off Roader (also about a 17'6" vehicle) and neither have fallen to bits so far, and they have both been to some pretty weird places in their time.
The biggest problem you will probably have with any vans when you venture off the bitumen (which is what most manufacturers class as Off Road) apart from clearance and departure angles, is not so much chassis and body problems, but more so with the internal fittings. Cupboard doors, TVs, fridges, Microwaves and the likes tend to fall off any brand of van if the corrugations get too tough and the driver gets a bit lackadaisical. I usually have a bit of a giggle when I see these vans with the great big cut away section at the rear to indicate a great departure angle, but no one ever thinks how pathetic the arrival angle is, being limited by the drawbar and A frame!! A full width roller at the rear is a better idea provided the van chassis can handle the strain.
Toilets, showers and washing machines seem to be the craze at the moment and if you are under pressure to have all these little luxuries fitted then you probably won't go too far off road as you won't be able to carry enough water to use these luxuries!
If you are seriously contemplating going really off road, then I would suggest you find the lightest strongest chassised van around, opt for a minimum of tandem (independent) suspension chassis and stay around the 17' mark.
Don't carry too much on the drawbar (outboards etc.,) and try hard not to carry anything on the rear of the van that extends past the body. (I have run over a couple of pushbikes and also picked up a few jerry cans and spares that have broken away from vans in my coach driving days).
Remember that whilst selecting the van, the weight mentioned is the manufacturers assessment of what the van should weigh dry, that is, with no food, clothes, water, gas, air conditioner, batteries, solar panels and other extras fitted. If you aim for a van round about the 1900kg tare weight mark you will probably end up towing about 2.5-2.8 tonnes.
Land Rovers were rated by the manufacturer in reality to tow 4.tonnes but the laws in Australia limit any tow vehicle to 3.5 unless it is fitted with air brakes. Sort of makes a mockery of those who spend a fortune to purchase some monster Yank truck with an advertised 6 ton tow capacity when, unless it is fitted with an air braking system, it can still only tow 3.5 legally.
Enjoy your travels
Glen

[bobslandies]

Land Rovers were rated by the manufacturer in reality to tow 4.tonnes but the laws in Australia limit any tow vehicle to 3.5 unless it is fitted with air brakes. Sort of makes a mockery of those who spend a fortune to purchase some monster Yank truck with an advertised 6 ton tow capacity when, unless it is fitted with an air braking system, it can still only tow 3.5 legally.
Enjoy your travels
Glen

Hi Glen,

I would like to know where you have seen that weight as I am rebuilding a plant trailer into a car (read Land Rover) carrier at the moment. It will have vacuum over hydraulic four wheel brakes as well as a vacuum over mechanical and hydraulic 'emergency braking system'.

From my reading of the current Rules the compulsory change to air brakes is more likely to be at 4.5Tonnes. You can of course have air brakes on lesser weight trailers also:

Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 38/03 – Trailer Brake Systems) 2007
4. DESIGN REQUIREMENTS FOR TRAILERS UP TO 4.5 TONNES ‘ATM’
4.1. Every trailer must be equipped with an efficient ‘Service Brake System’ which, with the exception of trailers equipped with an ‘Over-run Braking System’, must be designed so that the braking force can be progressively increased and decreased by means of the ‘Control Signal’ from the towing vehicle.
4.2. In the case of trailers with a ‘Gross Trailer Mass’ of greater than 2 tonne, the ‘Brake System’ must operate on all wheels.
4.3. The ‘Brake System’ on trailers with a ‘Gross Trailer Mass’ up to 2 tonnes may be actuated for both ‘Service Brake System’ and ‘Secondary Brake System’ by the over-run of the trailer.
4.4. Every trailer having a ‘Gross Trailer Mass’ over 2 tonnes must be equipped with an efficient ‘Emergency Brake System’ which will cause immediate automatic application of its ‘Brakes’ in the event of the trailer accidentally becoming disconnected from the drawing vehicle. ‘Brakes’ so applied must remain applied for at least 15 minutes.
4.5. Trailers up to 4.5 tonnes ‘ATM’ are not required to comply with other clauses of this rule.
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrument1.nsf/0/393E9A3C95F34923CA25731700204B36/$file/F2007L022231.pdf

In general trailers with a GTM of 4500kg and over - Require fully ADR-approved axles with "S" Cam Brakes, require ADR-approved Suspension or Load Sharing Suspensions and Compressed Air Brake Operating and Breakaway Kits.

Bob

[DeanoH]

........... We had considered travelling the Gibb River Road in the Kimberlys (depending on the severity of the road conditions at the time) amongst other offroad destinations. Given our budget, a 2003/2004 discovery TD5 seemed to tick most of the boxes that we are looking for in the tow vehicle ........................ J

Should do the job, no problem.
Kaye and I've travelled the GRR in both directions this year, last year and the year before. We've done it in a Troopy, a D2 towing a 14' van and an OKA. The road has improved hugely over this time with a lot of reconstruction, as opposed to seasonal grading, so should be even better next year. The biggest problem is corrugations. Whatever you do pay particular attention to tyres and tyre pressures, shockers and springs and for heavens sake don't be one of the "I just drive faster over corrugations till I don't feel them any more" drivers or your trip will be very short.
About the only place I wouldn't/couldn't take a van on a GRR trip would be up to Mitchell Falls NP or to Kalumburu. The best place to leave a van would be at Drysdale Station. Pack a tent and portable bedding for these 'overnighters'.
Enjoy your journey, a D2's a good choice.

Deano:)

[zulu Delta 534]

Bob, I stand corrected. Your understanding that a trailer can weigh up to 4.5 tonnes before requiring specific braking systems is quite correct. I was making a generalisation with standard caravans on the market in mind, and I think you will find that a braked caravan in the general sense of the word can be towed by a family type vehicle on a standard type hitch up until 3.5 tonnes, then from 3.5 to 4.5 tonnes a different type of hitch system (Pintle) is required, and this hitching system generally falls outside the parameters of the average caravan.
The dangers of generalisation!
The 4.5 tonne trailer does require a tow vehicle with a GVM of 3 tonne in that the towing limits (Qld) are set at 1.5 times the weight of the towing vehicle.
Regards
Glen

[Grumndriva]

While most people with little or no experience with pulling heavy vans think that power is the main issue, it is not. From experience, I am comfortable with the fact that handling/stability is by far the biggest issue with a large, heavy dirt road van.

Your RRS will have no problem with power.

By law you must not exceed the van's ATM, and that ATM must not exceed the tug's max towing capacity. Similarly the van's actual towball weight must not exceed the maximum permitted for the vehicle. That much is easy.

Now for the hard bit which the inexperienced find hard to believe. For stability (read safety), the van's centre of gravity must be a specific distance forward of the points of contact with the road, ie, the wheels. If it is too close to the axles, or god help us, over or behind them, then the van will be a death trap and will be uncontrollable once anything upsets it, such as a sudden swerve or a road train's bow wave hitting the van. It is accepted by experienced vanners and by road transport authorities around the world, including Australia, that that CG position will be ideal when somewhere between 7% and 14% of the caravan's ATM is supported by the tow hitch of the towing vehicle. The Australian authorities specify 10% as the ideal. Thus for a 3000 kg ATM van such as the Kedron you are looking at, you should have 300 kg on the tow ball (I understand that the RRS has a max towball weight of 350 kg). With that, the van should be fine on or off the road.