Marmalade the IIa

[Ypsilophora]

After months of searching, I am now the proud owner of a little 2a, SWB Diesel, which, in the interest of this post, shall be temporarily named 'Marmalade'.
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after a road trip of somewhat epic proportions, she arrived in our shed; and we began the strip down.
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during the strip down, it became clear that we got a few different vehicles in one! The chassis number matches the number on the ID plate, but the rear dif is from a late 60's 2a, and the diesel engine is from a series 3 (the car was originally a diesel). As we are yet to get to the front dif, we my discover that it is also different :lol2:

equipped with a mammoth PTO winch, possibly a weird number of leaves in the springs (12 rear, 9 front), she's an interesting little car.

More photos will follow as this little adventure continues [bigsmile]

[Ypsilophora]

Interestingly, at some point, someone (or something) has decided that the standard number of holes in the bell housing was not enough; hence, this:
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At this point, the 'to do' list is mainly Brakes (complete overhaul), steering and electronics (again, complete overhaul). The chassis is more or less perfect; with only one small rust patch in the rear gearbox cross member. From the quick drive Dad and I did in it around the paddocks, the gearbox feels fine.
The engine runs reasonably, yet is very smoky on idle and when cold. The guy we got it from reckons that was because the muffler is full of oil (original diesel engine carked it), how feasible is this? Or, is it more likely that the engine is burning oil (seal or something?), I did notice a fair bit of oil collected around the cover plate at the fuel pump (dunno what it's called, I'll try to get a photo tomorrow), And I'm unsure if there should be oil in behind said cover plate.

Whilst I'm asking questions, I might as well ask a few more:
For the brake lines, would it be worthwhile cutting and flaring my own, or should I just spend the $ and buy a ready cut, copper alloy 'plug and play' set? (as recommended in the restoration manual)

The PTO drive shaft seems to be impacting the gearbox cross member in a way that seems pretty unhealthy:
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Not sure if there is a way to rectify this issue, or if it's even an issue at all (although, I can't see house it would be good for the drive shaft in any way). Dad pointed out that the winch may have been mounted to the rear; hence the 12 rear leaf springs

And finally; for the electronics, if I were to make my own loom (still unsure, might end up just paying for a new one), what would be the best way to go about doing so? mark out a 1:1 scale board with all the components, the form wire around that?

Luca

[JDNSW]

Looks like a very typical Series Landrover in a lot of ways - has taken advantage of the interchangeability of parts (speaking from a 2a with a lot of S3 parts).

I have never seen a winch fitted like that - my feeling would be to simply remove it unless you need to use it or are just keeping it as a talking point. There does not look to be an easy solution to the interference between the shaft and the bell housing, and the weight right up front is not going to help the ride or steering.

Brake lines - there is no clearcut answer - depends on your skills versus finances! And I don't know either of these.

Smoke - what colour is it? If it is blueish it is oil, which possibly will be from the exhaust system - but this would only appear after the exhaust heats up. If it is coming from the engine, there is a slight possibility it is from valve stems seals, but this is unlikely in a diesel, more likely from piston rings or glazed cylinder walls.

If black, it is from poor combustion, and while a little of this is expected from this engine (it is a 1950s design) it should not be noticeable except at full throttle. If it is the first suspect would be injectors, incorrect timing, injection pump, or possibly low compression on one cylinder, although this should show up as a rough idle.

Oil on the side plate - I assume this is near the lift pump. Usually means the lift pump itself is leaking oil, but could be a gasket (including rocker cover) or simply oil spilled while topping up the sump. It will not be related to the smoke.

Electronics???? No electronics on a 2a. I assume you mean electrics. Pretty much as you suggest - remove the old one and use this to mark out a board for sizes. Both for this and a bought one, think carefully about what you want to have in your wiring. The 2a did not have an alternator, so this will change the wiring. Extras that were not there originally that you probably want to think about before you even plan the wiring include:- headlight relays; hazard lights; reversing lights; multispeed wipers; windscreen washer; trailer wiring; driving lights; power outlets; and probably others.

All the best, and keep the posts up! Looks like you have a good'un.

[akelly]

Great project and I can sympathise with finding a variety of parts, my own IIA has been an eye opener in that regard.

My own (current and ongoing) experience with these things is as follows:

Brake lines - I have made my own. Upside to this is I run them where I want, only downside is you need a flaring tool. Making the lines themselves is very easy and the premade kits still require you to bend all the lines into place, which really is the only difficult part anyway. The brake unions are all standard sizes and except for the 'female' ones that terminate at the flexible hoses are available over the counter in brake shops. I've just hunted up the female ones from 'Classic Mini' parts suppliers - land rover places don't seem to carry these parts and favour the pre-made kits, which I assume is an issue of margin on sales. If your unions are in good shape (not rounded off, which would be amazing) then you might be able to recycle them but having tested this I think new ones are a better plan.

Wiring - I would strongly recommend a pre-made loom. Nothing inherently wrong with doing it yourself, but unless you buy wires of the same colour as the original and run them all as per the manual, you'll have a difficult time of troubleshooting in the future - and if not you, the next person will. I'm currently the "next person" for someone who made their own loom, and I have ripped it all out to be replaced with one from Vintage Wiring Harnesses (in Melbourne). Another consideration is that big bundles of wires wrapped in electrical tape look terrible, the cloth covered looms look fantastic.

Have fun!

Cheers,

Adam

[Cadas]

Hi

Good luck

Feed back from my build

Brake lines, I bought a steel set, but the lengths were all over the place. So bought stuff and made my own, which was very hit and Miss until I found a proper lever operated flare tool. After that it was easy but unless you find a cheap pro tool, they cost the same as an off the shelf brake line set

Wiring loom, can’t go past one of Bruce Sharma’s in fitting one now and it’s excellent, all original cable and colours. Lengths are spot on. He has a 3 month wait list and they are a couple of hundred more than a cheap one but I wouldn’t hesitate to get another.

From my experience, avoid britpart for high tolerance parts (seals, bearings, etc) fine for other stuff.

[Ypsilophora]

Hi, thanks heaps for the comments.

Yes, sorry I did mean electrics, pretty tired whilst making the post last night :lol2:
Likely the winch will be removed, restored, sold and then the funds from that shall help towards an O/drive... but we'll see, it's a pretty interesting bit of machinery, so could be nice to keep it for interests sake

Thanks for the comment re. britpart, I'll keep that in mind.
whilst we're on the topic of spare parts, what would likely be the best brake shoe and cylinder kit? as I've noticed a fairly large discrepancy in prices from different suppliers, and that is one aspect of the car that I consider the quality of to be somewhat essential......

I really know nothing about electrical work, and making my own loom would be more for the experience and knowledge rather than cost saving. So, if I end up going ahead with that is it possible to cloth wrap the wiring, or do you need a special tool for it?
Alternatively, I could shrink wrap it all.

Luca

[gromit]

Thanks for the comment re. britpart, I'll keep that in mind.
whilst we're on the topic of spare parts, what would likely be the best brake shoe and cylinder kit? as I've noticed a fairly large discrepancy in prices from different suppliers, and that is one aspect of the car that I consider the quality of to be somewhat essential......

I really know nothing about electrical work, and making my own loom would be more for the experience and knowledge rather than cost saving. So, if I end up going ahead with that is it possible to cloth wrap the wiring, or do you need a special tool for it?
Alternatively, I could shrink wrap it all.



Cloth wrapping a harness requires a very expensive machine, shrink wrapping won't work as it will end up rigid and you need it to flex.

There is insulation tape available for wiring harnesses that has no glue. Once spiral wrapped it allows the harness to be bent, you just need a wrap of normal tape at the end to stop it unravelling.
By the time you have paid for spools of each of the wire colours it will be up to the cost of a new harness. I have looked into it and have stayed with original harnesses on all of mine so far.

Most of the aftermarket parts are outsourced by **itpart, Bearmach etc. and typically come from India. Buy it local and pay more or order from overseas and make a saving on the same parts.
Rubber parts decompose within a few years.
Wheel bearing from a known manufacturer about $350 per set, Indian about $50 including a dodgy seal, lock washer etc. I haven't had any problems with the cheap wheel bearings but if the originals are OK I re-use them.
Best to get seals from a bearing supplier locally, take in the old ones as a sample.

Brake lines, I've always made my own. As others have commented the pre-made ones are either too long or too short.
Paddocks in the UK have the flare nuts & tube nuts reasonably priced. Flexible hoses are much cheaper from the UK.

Brake linings - use a known brand, steer clear of **itpart.
Brake cylinders can be OK from **itpart/Bearmach but there are some known brands where the quality is better. A local brake company will be able to get the parts but could be expensive so check price before ordering.

Best of luck,

Colin

[Ypsilophora]

Thanks again for the replies!

took off one of the wheels to have a look at the brakes, the bearings had had it, and at some point someone had (instead of doing the sensible thing, and replacing the bearings), just applied liberal amounts of silicone to just about every place oil could leak from :bangin:
Due to this, the brake drum had become somewhat... greasy
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One of the pads had also seized, so was almost completely un-worn... I suspect they'll need replacing :lol2:
The wheel cylinders appear to be the original cast iron type girling ones, I'd be keen to rebuild them, as it seems a shame to chuck a 50yr old piece of cast iron machinery... Has anyone had any experience with the wheel cylinder rebuild kits?
Another question regarding the electrics: Gromit, you said you reuse the original loom, I was under the impression that the wiring increased in resistance with age, you haven't had any issues?


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a bit of a clearer picture of her; Dad and I just making sure she wasn't about to fall of the trailer on the drive home!
another thing, the door tops we have are missing one of the bolts each, is it possible to fabricate these bolts back on?

Luca

[gromit]

Another question regarding the electrics: Gromit, you said you reuse the original loom, I was under the impression that the wiring increased in resistance with age, you haven't had any issues?




I've never heard that one before, I did need to clean all the bullet connectors on my Series I as they weren't making good contact.

Grease in the brakes doesn't mean the bearings have failed, could be just the hub seal and the seal in the end of the axle. You might find the bearings are OK.

Re-sealing the wheel cylinders will depend on the condition of the piston & bore. If rust pitted a seal kit isn't going to fix them.
Original pistons were hard chromed, you might be lucky and the bore is OK and only needs a light hone. I've re-sealed them with success in the past.


Colin

[akelly]

I've just rebuilt my front wheel cylinders, but I only did it because they were new about 10yrs ago and had just been sitting for the last 6yrs, so the bores were in good condition. The kits I got from British Auto Parts were good quality. I've done hundreds of wheel cylinder and master cylinder kits over the years I worked as a mechanic and results vary - these days I would say if you need it to work first time and last the long haul you should put a new cylinder in, if you're willing to risk a few bucks and the time then give the kit a go but be prepared for it to leak either straight away or within a short time.

A common practice in my time in the trade was to sleeve the cylinder if the bores were too pitted on cars where the parts were harder to find (my boss was a Ford Prefect nut so we sleeved a lot of cylinders), but I heard recently that's no longer considered worthwhile unless the parts are completely unobtainable. Landy wheel cylinders are pretty cheap and in stock in most of the usual places.

In terms of the state of the brake area in general, I'd say the distance piece the wheel bearing seal runs on is rusted and/or scored and will need to be replaced. It's an easy job but appears daunting at first because you're smashing something off with a chisel and heating up the new part to shrink fit. You definitely want to remove the stub axle and put it in a vice to make removing the old one easy, then lay the flange on the bench with the stub axle vertical to install the new one. This makes it a job of about 5min per axle. The other issue that leads to the brakes getting covered in oil is not regularly replacing the felt seal on the end of the axle - buy a handful of spares and replace them any time you remove the locknut to adjust bearings or whatever.

Cheers,

Adam

[JDNSW]

That brake looks in surprisingly good shape - I've seen lots worse!

Most of the wear is on leading shoe, exactly as expected, and obviously they need to be replaced.

Oil on brakes is usually due to the hub seal, its distance piece (as noted by Adam), loose wheel bearings, or sometimes a blocked axle breather.

[Ypsilophora]

Another fun little surprise the other day:
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The uni joint in the Left hand swivel pin housing seems to be missing a bearing.... I'm sure the diff enjoyed munching away at that........
Here's to hoping it somehow fell out BEFORE going in :twobeers:

Thankfully, the right hand side half axle didn't have the same issue:
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Oh... I mean, it's not actually any better
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interestingly, the right hub and swivel pin housing (this one) seemed to be more silicon than anything else, I assume it developed a leak at some point, but instead of taking it apart and replacing gaskets and seals, they just covered it in silicon. The water condensation on the half axle indicate this was not enough.
I guess this shows why you aren't supposed to run these dry.......? [bighmmm]
or at least, that water does not serve as a good lubricant...

I am a little worried about the state of the front diff, I can imagine having one stiff and rusted uni joint, and the other one completely missing a bearing would cause a lot of vibration.
Not sure if you can see in the photo, but there seems to be a little wear/burring on the splines of both half axles (on the side that fits into the diff itself.)
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I would love to know where that little bearing went though, none of you happened to nick it from me? :whistling:

[JDNSW]

I've seen lots worse than these. I would not worry about the wear on the splines. Like you, I wonder where the bearing bits went.

[gromit]

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The uni joint in the Left hand swivel pin housing seems to be missing a bearing.... I'm sure the diff enjoyed munching away at that........
Difficult to see from the photo but is the outer part of the bearing cap behind the circlip ? It looks like the end of the cap may have been punched out.
The bits can't get through to the diff but should have been in the swivel housing unless someone damaged it and threw it back together....

Thankfully, the right hand side half axle didn't have the same issue:
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Oh... I mean, it's not actually any better
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I am a little worried about the state of the front diff, I can imagine having one stiff and rusted uni joint, and the other one completely missing a bearing would cause a lot of vibration.

The diff might be OK but the rust in the swivel hubs doesn't bode well.
The lower taper roller bearings will need to be replaced along with the Railco pins (if rusted badly) and possibly the Railco bearings.


In the past with axles in this type of condition I've found it easier to track down a complete replacement axle. Problem is that without being able to take it apart it could be just as bad as yours.

Is the chrome on the swivel hubs OK, no pitting ?


Colin

[Ypsilophora]

In the past with axles in this type of condition I've found it easier to track down a complete replacement axle. Problem is that without being able to take it apart it could be just as bad as yours.

Is the chrome on the swivel hubs OK, no pitting ?


Colin

Hey Colin,

I suspect that is what I will eventually do, trouble is chasing one down that isn't too far away to make it worthwhile... I do know a few landy people locally who might be convinced to part with a front axle :lol2:

the left hand chrome ball is fantastic, no pitting what so ever, and still slightly greasy inside, from what I can tell; no sign of a bearing cap (although there seemed to be a light coating of steel dust on the uni joint... it almost looks as if a bearing cap or something got munched at high speeds....................)
The right hand one is ever so slightly pitted in one spot, and I suspect this is why there was moisture inside the swivel housing.


From what I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any trace of the cap behind the circlip... but I suspect that is the most likely answer, I cannot figure out how the whole cap could just vanish and leave the circlip in place - it'd be interesting to see if they are renowned for teleporting; maybe that's what has happened

Luca

[gromit]

Hey Colin,

I suspect that is what I will eventually do, trouble is chasing one down that isn't too far away to make it worthwhile... I do know a few landy people locally who might be convinced to part with a front axle :lol2:

the left hand chrome ball is fantastic, no pitting what so ever, and still slightly greasy inside, from what I can tell; no sign of a bearing cap (although there seemed to be a light coating of steel dust on the uni joint... it almost looks as if a bearing cap or something got munched at high speeds....................)
The right hand one is ever so slightly pitted in one spot, and I suspect this is why there was moisture inside the swivel housing.


From what I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any trace of the cap behind the circlip... but I suspect that is the most likely answer, I cannot figure out how the whole cap could just vanish and leave the circlip in place - it'd be interesting to see if they are renowned for teleporting; maybe that's what has happened

Luca

I've seen one where a needle roller was misplaced and sat across the end of the cap. If you then try and press the other cap into place it stops short of the circlip groove but if enough force is used the cap with the misplaced needle roller cracks. Fortunately spotted this while overhauling an axle.

I think there would be pieces of needle rollers or pieces of the cap if it happened in situ.

If there is only limited pitting on the chrome swivel it might be possible to apply some 'epoxy metal'. I did this on my Series I and 12 years later it's still holding oil.....


Colin

[Ypsilophora]

If there is only limited pitting on the chrome swivel it might be possible to apply some 'epoxy metal'. I did this on my Series I and 12 years later it's still holding oil.....


Colin

hmm... interesting
honestly I have no idea how much pitting is 'too much' to fix as you did. Although, there is actually more pitting that I originally thought, so maybe not salvageable; but might give it a go anywho.

I reckon something like that happened, and instead of replacing the uni joint, the half axle just got stuck in anyway; as you say, there really isn't enough stuff to evident an 'in situ' break.
Luca

[JDNSW]

Whereabouts are you in NSW?

[Ypsilophora]

Whereabouts are you in NSW?

far south coast area... near eden/bega

scarce pickings down this way in terms of parts it seems

[JDNSW]

Not very close to here unfortunately! Otherwise I could suggest you could come and look over some of my graveyard cases.

[Ypsilophora]

Not very close to here unfortunately! Otherwise I could suggest you could come and look over some of my graveyard cases.

Yeah, a long way from most places! Thank you for your offer though!

[Ypsilophora]

There is a bit of rust to deal with on the bottom of both doors; is there anything I should be aware of when removing the door skins?

[460cixy]

far south coast area... near eden/bega

scarce pickings down this way in terms of parts it seems

That's my old stomping ground. There's a bloke around brogo that plays around with Land Rovers may be able to help you out you will find him at candelo markets usually in a series one 107 ute

[Ypsilophora]

That's my old stomping ground. There's a bloke around brogo that plays around with Land Rovers may be able to help you out you will find him at candelo markets usually in a series one 107 ute

There's a few people around actually. The guy you're referring to has been fantastic in helping me along the way - he's a great bloke!

[Ypsilophora]

Looking at doing my own harness, as I can do modifications as I like (and as it's fairly unlikely I'll be selling the car anytime soon, I'm not too worried about ****ing off the 'next guy' :whistling:).

As the fellow we got the car from had already started cleaning up the electrics, ie. he ripped about 95% of the wiring out completely, I don't have anything to go off. So, does anyone happen to have a picture of the back of their late 2a diesel dash panel, with wiring?
Thanks heaps,
Luca [smilebigeye]

[Ypsilophora]

Gearbox and transfer case came out today. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/fb2040111779aa9bcc9d10c6a52a5ef2.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/d1b7d07343734c65a4adc2291819b411.jpg
You can see the “new” clutch and pressure plate that the guy who sold it put in (new old stock I guess.....).

Stripping down the transfer case and front output shaft to investigate the an issue with 4WD occasionally sticking slightly, we found the bronze bush on the output shaft is stuck on (stopping the selector dog and high range selector shaft from coming out).
Anyone got any ideas on how to replace said bush?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/31da414987021d9acedb0c1cc2c8e9b1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210222/dc5f20564fbe001dc9b29d8cc83f172a.jpg

Luca

[Ypsilophora]

Gearbox stripping hit a bit of a dead end due to that 'special nut' on the mainshaft :thumbsdown:
from reading a bunch of other gearbox strip down records it seems they are usually finger tight or slightly tighter at most... no such luck for us: we ended up having to heat it up until it was very (very) hot, then whilst my grandfather stoically held the mainshaft from spinning I slammed the teeth of the nut with out biggest cold chisel... eventually it started to move little by little.

but, having defeated the pesky nut, the rest of the strip down went swimmingly. There appears to be very little wear on any of the gears... and I suspect it hasn't really seen a lot of use (or many oil changes for that matter).
Unsure if we should replace any of the bearings... they have all cleaned up very nicely, but me and my non existent mechanical knowledge have wouldn't know a good/bad bearing from a bar of soap!
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The only other issue we ran into is that nasty 2nd/3rd bronze bush that has the habit of shredding itself apart:
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now... to buy the two piece-pre broken version, or the original one piece version...?


Luca

[Cadas]

Hi, well done, they come apart quite easy once you get inside them.

When you order a new bush ( I used a two piece) you’ll still need to adjust the length whichever you use. get a couple of the circlip rings as they can go airborne and disappear.

As to bearings, it’s worth pricing them up and making a decision. They are not a big cost and non of them are hard to replace.

[Ypsilophora]

Yes, have heard one needs to order multiple split ring things - nasty buggers to get off though!



As to bearings, it’s worth pricing them up and making a decision. They are not a big cost and non of them are hard to replace.

Very cheap it seems - but paddocks don't have any OEM bearings; the other aftermarket bearings I ordered are pretty rubbish. Did you get new aftermarket bearings? if so, did you find them acceptable?

Also is it recommended to replace the little bimetal thrust washers? (part no. 521328) 169194

Luca

[Ypsilophora]

Also if someone around ACT/Far South Coast has a passenger side door top in OK condition that they'd be willing to sell me... I wouldn't say no! [biggrin]

[Cadas]

Yes, have heard one needs to order multiple split ring things - nasty buggers to get off though!



Very cheap it seems - but paddocks don't have any OEM bearings; the other aftermarket bearings I ordered are pretty rubbish. Did you get new aftermarket bearings? if so, did you find them acceptable?

Also is it recommended to replace the little bimetal thrust washers? (part no. 521328) 169194

Luca

3 or 4 very thin flat blade screwdriver’s makes it easy. Push one at a time in and wiggle them around evenly spaced. If you’re adjusting the end float you’ll remove it half a dozen times.

Bearings, I used craddocks and bearmach. For me avoid britpart because I had issues with several where the outer race diameter was off.

I found most sure had after market and oem ( marked as a G after the part number) and the cost was not that different.

I did replace the thrust washer as mine has worn.

There are some shims as well, I measured and then ordered, but in hindsight they cost about $1 each so I would buy $5 worth in different sizes, gets you close enough.

[Ypsilophora]

There are some shims as well, I measured and then ordered, but in hindsight they cost about $1 each so I would buy $5 worth in different sizes, gets you close enough.

You wouldn’t happen to remember the part number? Only because I haven’t managed to work it out (British auto parts in Aus have them, but the price is somewhat.... discouraging)

Luca

[Cadas]

I’ll check. From memory they were $1 each from uk but postage was $27. If I’d bought 10 with the rest of the bits it would have been cheaper.

If you are looking at the thrust shims then take deep breath and sit down first. Then check if yours can be reused. If it’s worn though the top layer then they need replacing.

I’ll look this evening

[Ypsilophora]

Cylinder head came off the other day!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/853c6aa9451a59ee9b415873aa605582.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/bcab5338a178144ac5150e32cad2ff45.jpg
I suspect the exhaust valve stem seal might be toast... seems to be evidence of leakage into the cylinder.
Whilst the head is off would it potentially be worthwhile to send it off to be cleaned/machined?

The cylinder walls themselves seem pretty good, a little staining - I assume from sitting around for an unknown length of time. Reading original size, and no noticeable lip. Seems original hone marks are still evident.

Pistons also seem pretty good
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/2ded79979ebb2e2cc68f5a8be5c0c78f.jpg
The bearings look completely unworn, OEM bearings are cheap - so new set of them anyway

Ordered a new set of OEM rings, not sure if I really need them, but it can’t hurt!
Piston one possibly shows evidence of a little blow by (I assume that is what caused the slight staining): https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/dd76112562d951995a8a1aa15971e75c.jpg
Symptom of dodgy rings?

Luca

[Cadas]

Did you do a compression test before you stripped it?

[Cadas]

The shims are described as thrust washers in the manual, Two different types on page 156 marked as items 13&20

Part#s 267572 onwards (for 13)
And 50702/03, etc ( for 20).

Thinking back, the really expensive shims are the two inside the transfer box either side of the intermediate gear, 219469.... they were something like $100 each.

My old ones were deemed to be fine [emoji2955]

[gromit]

Should there be an oil scraper ring at the bottom of the pistons ?
The groove with holes looks distinctly like its made for an oil scraper.

When you say OEM rings and shell bearings what does that mean ? A lot of aftermarket parts are sold as 'OEM' which supposedly means that they are an Original Equipment Manufacturer to Land Rover but they don't state who they make the original equipment for.........probably not Land Rover
All I'm saying is is be careful with suppliers using the term 'OEM' for parts.


Colin

[Ypsilophora]

Hey Cadis,
Thanks heaps for that - found them no worries now [biggrin]
unfortunately, I wasn't able to get it compression tested... couldn't drive it into any local workshops and no one around had a diesel compression tester - for all I know the compression was perfect and piston rings were not an issue at all.


Gromit: I don't know! I've never even seen a piston before now... honestly I just assumed the funny groove with holes was some sort of oil scraper - but maybe someone with more experience with these engines can chime in.
Actually, looking at my order history I ordered 'genuine' (they don't say genuine LR tho... so maybe they mean they are real... :lol2:)... they were only a few $ more than britpart, so I figured it couldn't hurt. either way the part number had a G after it [thumbsupbig]

Luca

[gromit]

Gromit: I don't know! I've never even seen a piston before now... honestly I just assumed the funny groove with holes was some sort of oil scraper - but maybe someone with more experience with these engines can chime in.


Just looked at the parts manual and it doesn't show an oil scraper ring in the lower groove.
The groove itself must collect oil and the holes let it travel back down to the sump.


Colin

[JDNSW]

If you consider getting the head skimmed, you need to be aware that the precombustion chambers must be slightly proud of the head face.

[Ypsilophora]

If you consider getting the head skimmed, you need to be aware that the precombustion chambers must be slightly proud of the head face.

So probably order new hot plugs while I’m at it? (If I go down that route)
As a side note, the hot plugs are a little cracked - which I’m lead to believe is fairly normal. When would one replace them?


Luca

[JDNSW]

So probably order new hot plugs while I’m at it? (If I go down that route)
As a side note, the hot plugs are a little cracked - which I’m lead to believe is fairly normal. When would one replace them?


Luca

When they look like they are going to fall to pieces. I would not worry about minor cracks. What to look for is signns they have been moving. Replace in that case. Just in case there is any confusion, we are talking about precombustion chambers, not glowplugs.

[Ypsilophora]

Yes, these things
http://www.turnerengineering.co.uk/Files/122596/Img/11/558168_01.jpg
The bearmach parts catalogue called them hotplugs - so not knowing any better that is what I have been calling them. Also heard people call them 'hot spots'. Precombustion chamber is a better name though; as it seems to literally be what they are.

All mine seem fine, still nice and straight and don't seem to show any signs of moving (all carbon build-up marks line up).

While I'm on the topic of engine bits and bobs - is it worth replacing injectors? From what I've read it seems they're pretty tough, and a guy nearby has a bench pop tester thing for injectors. Maybe a case of testing, rebuilding, retesting and potentially replacing?


Luca

[JDNSW]

While you are doing all this work, it is definitely worth overhauling the injectors, although since they are easily removed after the engine is assembled, it is not essential. However, there is no advantage that I am aware of to replacing rather than overhauling the injectors. The overhaul should include replacing any parts such as nozzles that are damaged or out of spec.

[Ypsilophora]

Hey John, thanks for clearing that up.

Removed the inlet and exhaust valves, which proved that the smoke was probably from bad seals as all 8 were hard and brittle - 5 out of 8 looked to be leaking (how all 8 weren't, I guess 3 just happened to harden in a sealed position... or it hadn't been driven enough since the seals died to start leaking in all 8).
169639
I don't have a stem compressor, but they look like glorified clamps - so I made do; as I don't know enough about mechanics to know how much I'm screwing things up I think it worked well! (people who do know - please feel free to tell me how much of an idiot I am). Do note; I did cushion the cylinder head face with a piece of wood, which prevented the clamp from scoring it.
169640
169641
169642
nice and gummy


The stem seals themselves seem to be two different parts - one for exhaust and one for inlet (one has a little spring around the top, the other doesn't). Yet when I look on paddocks/bearmach/craddocks etc it seems they just list 'stem seals' rather than two different types; is this all fine?

Luca

[Cadas]

They are all the same now, the seals work for both.

[Ypsilophora]

They are all the same now, the seals work for both.

Thanks heaps for that - good to know

[67hardtop]

Just looked at the parts manual and it doesn't show an oil scraper ring in the lower groove.
The groove itself must collect oil and the holes let it travel back down to the sump.


ColinHi Colin, just butting into this conversation about the diesel's 5 ring pistons. The 5th oil control ring was deleted during production as it was deemed unnecessary. The later s3 diesel shop manual says not to fit it. When you buy new diesel pistons, the 5th ring groove is not there. I searched everywhere to get a set of rings for 5 ring pistons when I rebuilt my s3 diesel engine, and found a set here in Australia, but had one ring missing, of course it was an oil ring. Turns out I didn't need them anyway as one of my pistons was broken at the top ring land. And, as my luck goes, I only found it after it was the last pistons pulled out. Haha. I fitted 4 new pistons in the end. Hope this answers your question. Cheers

[67hardtop]

Also as JDNSW has said, the hot spots are slightly proud of the cylinder head face. If you machine the head face then replace the hotspots and the pins that locate them. Make sure you use a diesel head gasket as they have a special cut out thing for the hotspots to hold them in place. Cheers.

[Ypsilophora]

Right
Been a while of not a lot of progress, but I am finally getting round to rebuilding the gearbox/transfer case.
172481

A few issues I want to iron out before bolting it all up and sticking it back in place -

1, it seems to be stuck in 4WD (which was its issue originally) - red knob fully forward, yellow knob fully upwards seems to still have drive to the front output shaft. Not sure what the cause of that is. Obviously I can’t fit the spring to the yellow knob, so maybe that is the cause - but I can’t really see how.

2, when in reverse the gearbox is quite noisy, sounds like a rusty bearing, odd thing is I have replaced all bearings, and before the box was bolted together each individual part was very smooth - maybe it will quieten down when full of oil?

[JDNSW]

1. The dog to the front drive will not disengage unless the "yellow knob" is pulled up either by hand or spring when the red knob is pulled back, and held there when it is pushed forward again. (I must admit it took me years to get my mind around how this is actually achieved). The yellow knob, when pulled up engages a pin in the "pivot shaft when the red knob is pulled back, so that when the red knob is pushed forward again a spring is compressed that will disengage the front drive dog as soon as there is no load on it.

2. Reverse and first both have straight cut gears, with reverse having three engaged straight cut gears, so reverse is always noisy compared to other gears. Also, being sliding engagement gears, both reverse and first are likely to be damaged by careless or unskilled driving.

[Ypsilophora]

1. The dog to the front drive will not disengage unless the "yellow knob" is pulled up either by hand or spring when the red knob is pulled back, and held there when it is pushed forward again. (I must admit it took me years to get my mind around how this is actually achieved). The yellow knob, when pulled up engages a pin in the "pivot shaft when the red knob is pulled back, so that when the red knob is pushed forward again a spring is compressed that will disengage the front drive dog as soon as there is no load on it.




Thank you for that!
That’s really helped clear things up, great to finally wrap my head around how it all works!

As my gearbox is all bolted up and sitting in the car, I thought I’d rebuild the PTO, yet found someone had welded the shaft to the gear teeth - rendering it impossible to open.... it’s a tad difficult to make out in the photo, I’m just hoping the old oil seal doesn’t leak too badly!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210729/166fd086b677e461204ab5974e77c884.jpg

Luca

[Homestar]

That’s a real farm repair if ever I’ve seen one. Shouldn’t get too high and mighty though as I’ve done similar to different types of plant over the years to get going again in a hurry.[emoji56]

Usually 3 days plus to get a part in to fix it on a place I used to work and look after or a 6 hour drive to go get it so the welder got used for all sorts of things it probably shouldn’t have.

Can’t recall welding a gear onto a PTO at any stage so you can’t blame that one on me. [emoji56][emoji16]

[JDNSW]

I remember many years ago our mechanic complaining bitterly about overhauling a drilling rig where it became apparent that a previous maintainer's favourite tool was an electric welder!

[Homestar]

That wasn't me either, promise...

I hope no one starts on about some large winging grounds slashers that came up for auction in Gippsland around 20 years ago - that could have been me... [bigwhistle]

[Ypsilophora]

A few things on the car have been like this... the strange homemade winch had all its oil seals tacked in with weld, which was certainly interesting to find!

Gearbox back in now - but an issue with the clutch system has arisen.
With the pedal to the floor, and the slave cylinder fully extended there isn’t enough movement in the clutch unit itself to disengage. Not really sure how else to describe the issue, other than the clutch won’t disengage. I have replaced all hydraulic aspects (master and slave cylinder, as well as soft and metal hoses)

Thanks heaps
Luca :)

edit: I suspect the withdrawal unit was rebuilt a few splines off.... off I go to remove the gearbox again!

[Cadas]

Yep, I did that as well.

the diagram in the manual is a bit quirky in the way it is drawn.

[Mettalique]

[QUOTE=Ypsilophora;3099404]Thank you for that!
That’s really helped clear things up, great to finally wrap my head around how it all works!

As my gearbox is all bolted up and sitting in the car, I thought I’d rebuild the PTO, yet found someone had welded the shaft to the gear teeth - rendering it impossible to open.... it’s a tad difficult to make out in the photo, I’m just hoping the old oil seal doesn’t leak too badly!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210729/166fd086b677e461204ab5974e77c884.jpg

You might be able to get a 9” grinder down in there to grind it back if you’re careful

[Ypsilophora]

You might be able to get a 9” grinder down in there to grind it back if you’re careful

Yeah, I was considering that, there’s a local engineer/Land Rover nut down the road - I think I’ll take it down to him to check out.

[Cadas]

Question is why was it welded on, the splines may have gone in the gear or the shaft.

[1950landy]

Question is why was it welded on, the splines may have gone in the gear or the shaft.

Previous owner probably could not find a grub screw at the time to secure it.[bigwhistle]

[Mettalique]

Yeah, I was considering that, there’s a local engineer/Land Rover nut down the road - I think I’ll take it down to him to check out.

If I ever have to do that to get me out of there, I would normally weld it in such a way that I can undo it if possible. Hopefully whoever did it had the same mentality [biggrin]

[Ypsilophora]

Question is why was it welded on, the splines may have gone in the gear or the shaft.

After a better clean, and a really good look over, I realised it was welded to the flange, not the shaft, and what I thought was weld on the splines turned out to be on the inside of the flange, and not bonded to the splines (thankfully!) so I took it round to a local fellow with a hydraulic press. And sure enough after a bit of a struggle the gear pressed off the shaft.

Now I just need to get the shaft out!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210808/961f35b9c5247105df327f8efa775fa3.jpg

[Ypsilophora]

Starting to come back together

I ended up just throwing money at someone for a wiring loom - I figured it’d be significantly nice than anything I’d be able to make: Now just waiting for it to arrive [emoji16]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210812/6105ea0ab3d8869284b0c70c1041c33b.jpg

I’ve been working on the damn door alignment, looking like I’ll have to get some new hinge rebuild kits as at some point someone has replaced the original bolt + ball + spring with some standard bolts. Whilst they work, they’re a little floppy

[Ypsilophora]

On the hunt for a few tires.
Was quoted around 1200 fitted for a set of 4 750x16.
The guy at the tire place seemed to think they were a really uncommon size and hence hard to find - I thought they were a fairly typical size fitted to older land cruisers and light trucks.
What do you have on your cars?

[Cadas]

Remember you need 5 (one for spare)

I searched for ages for decent 7.5’s and ended up with 235/75/16 as these were ~$130 each from tyroola (Inc fitting)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210813/7e51cebd320d7713b222890d5fdf67f2.jpg

[chuck]

The new equivalent version seems to be 225 x 95 x 16.

That's what size standard Landcruiser's come with.

Some good buys to be had if you look on ebay or gumtree.

[Ypsilophora]

Thanks heaps :)

I’ve been leaning towards the 225s, it seems they are very similar in size to the 7.50x16s.

Have found some nice second hand ones on gumtree, but they’re all a little far away!

I’ll just keep hunting around

[1950landy]

Can I make a suggestion, you need to leave the tyres to be one of the last things you buy for your LR , tyres these days have a use by date so you could find by the time you are ready for registration you may be half way there , also you need to check the date on any second hand tyres you buy & pay accordingly .

[Ypsilophora]

Can I make a suggestion, you need to leave the tyres to be one of the last things you buy for your LR , tyres these days have a use by date so you could find by the time you are ready for registration you may be half way there , also you need to check the date on any second hand tyres you buy & pay accordingly .

I’m hoping it’s no going to be too long now! [emoji16]
But I might hold off a few more weeks.

[1950landy]

I’m hoping it’s no going to be too long now! [emoji16]
But I might hold off a few more weeks.

You can at least work out what you want & best price but unless you need them to move the LR around I would be waiting .:thumbsup:

[Ypsilophora]

You can at least work out what you want & best price but unless you need them to move the LR around I would be waiting .:thumbsup:

The old ones are just fine for rolling it around. So I’ll stick with them for the time being

[Ypsilophora]

Wiring loom arrived today, it’s bloody nice.
Having a few issues as the car had no original wiring to go off, so am having to think about things a bit more putting it together.

Biggest issue I’m having is the ignition switch, what is supposed to run from each terminal (they’re labelled 1-4)172908

In addition, if anyone has a picture of behind the instrument panel with all the wiring connected I’d love to see it

Thanks heaps
Luca :)

[Cadas]

For your long term sanity it’s worth sitting down with the wiring diagram and wiring through each colour and connect it up.

Does take time, but the understanding is a) important, b) safer. Each time you go in there you have the confidence of knowing what is what.

There’s no fuses, so get it wrong and you get smoke. (I speak from experience)

I can’t send you a pic as I can’t get home.

The main switch has a live feed (single blue I think) , main lights (brown) and then switched feeds (white). Don’t rely on my memory though!!

On mine, there are more whites than connectors so you need one piggyback connector.

Using a multi meter you can work out which ones are constant and which are switched. The wiring diagram does show the terminals.

[Ypsilophora]

For your long term sanity it’s worth sitting down with the wiring diagram and wiring through each colour and connect it up.

Does take time, but the understanding is a) important, b) safer. Each time you go in there you have the confidence of knowing what is what.

There’s no fuses, so get it wrong and you get smoke. (I speak from experience)


As I didn’t have an original loom to copy, the only way I can do it is by carefully following the wiring diagram, so far it hasn’t been TOO confusing [emoji16]

I added extra fuses - as I wasn’t that happy having two protecting the entirety of the electrical system, so now there are 6 blade fuses (which still isn’t a huge amount, but better than nothing!)

Thanks for the info re the starter switch,,I’ll attack it with a multimeter tomorrow

Cheers
Luca

[Ypsilophora]

As it turns out - the reason why I was having issues is the ignition switch was a series 3 one, which differs slightly in wiring order. Hence the numbers in the manual didn’t add up. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210818/1949a43410e1138cdad5859b36b54a9b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210818/fa05f1e2dfcd7035e53d1fde443c06ba.jpg
Finally starting to look like a car again!

[Ypsilophora]

Electrics trouble...!

When I got the car it was fitted with an aftermarket glow plug relay of some sort - as it turns out, this is because the ignition switch is half dead (ancillary and starter switch works, but the glow plug part doesn't). I tested the ignition switch when I first removed it - and determined that it was broken then, but I hoped it would somehow fix itself if I left it alone fore a few months [tonguewink]

if anyone happens to be parting out a later type series diesel I'd love to grab the ignition switch! Was slightly... upset when I saw new diesel switches cost 3 times more than the petrol one.

Dip switch for main beam and the horn are both also dead (again, I already knew this, just hoped the shed rats would be useful for once and magic it back into functionality).

The odd thing is my indicator flasher works for the left hand, and just gives a nice solid light when indicating right - hopefully its an issue that I will be able to solve easily.

Can't get my wiper motor to self park, which I believe the late 2a's should, but I am using the series 3, 2 speed wiper style switch, as I felt $80 for a new lucas switch was a little extreme. Does anybody know the function of each wire leading to the motor (there are three: solid green, red/green and brown green)?

I also can't get the fuel gauge to work (possibly the temp. gauge as well, but haven't had the engine hot yet.)

I'd be lying if I said electrickery is my strong point.


I did manage to get my hands on a bit of a 'luxury' upgrade from a fantastic bloke on gumtree - a smiths round heater, admittedly for a Morris, but it I reckon it'll fit perfectly well. It passed a pressure test with flying colours, and is in good nick cosmetically (missing a chunk out of the Bakelite cover face, but its not the end of the world).
unfortunately the motor is dead (that dreaded electrickery again!!!), but I knew that when I bought it - as I got it for less than the price of a new wiper switch, I'm not too fussed at all.
173413
Aside from the electrical issues, its all going fairly well... not too far off now [biggrin]
173412

[drfish]

Electrics trouble...!

When I got the car it was fitted with an aftermarket glow plug relay of some sort - as it turns out, this is because the ignition switch is half dead (ancillary and starter switch works, but the glow plug part doesn't). I tested the ignition switch when I first removed it - and determined that it was broken then, but I hoped it would somehow fix itself if I left it alone fore a few months [tonguewink]

if anyone happens to be parting out a later type series diesel I'd love to grab the ignition switch! Was slightly... upset when I saw new diesel switches cost 3 times more than the petrol one.

Dip switch for main beam and the horn are both also dead (again, I already knew this, just hoped the shed rats would be useful for once and magic it back into functionality).

The odd thing is my indicator flasher works for the left hand, and just gives a nice solid light when indicating right - hopefully its an issue that I will be able to solve easily.

Can't get my wiper motor to self park, which I believe the late 2a's should, but I am using the series 3, 2 speed wiper style switch, as I felt $80 for a new lucas switch was a little extreme. Does anybody know the function of each wire leading to the motor (there are three: solid green, red/green and brown green)?

I also can't get the fuel gauge to work (possibly the temp. gauge as well, but haven't had the engine hot yet.)

I'd be lying if I said electrickery is my strong point.


I did manage to get my hands on a bit of a 'luxury' upgrade from a fantastic bloke on gumtree - a smiths round heater, admittedly for a Morris, but it I reckon it'll fit perfectly well. It passed a pressure test with flying colours, and is in good nick cosmetically (missing a chunk out of the Bakelite cover face, but its not the end of the world).
unfortunately the motor is dead (that dreaded electrickery again!!!), but I knew that when I bought it - as I got it for less than the price of a new wiper switch, I'm not too fussed at all.
173413
Aside from the electrical issues, its all going fairly well... not too far off now [biggrin]
173412

I have found that with these old electric’s, the internal contacts often just need a clean. Much of the componentry is comparatively simple so easy enough to investigate problems and rebuild them. Try levering back the tabs on the dip switch, pulling the guts out, and rubbing back the contact surfaces, to see if that fixes the problem. Easy enough to bench test it with a multimeter. With the horn, have you established if it is the button, or the horn itself (or perhaps the wiring in between)?

Cheers,

Matt

[Ypsilophora]

Hey Matt,

I think I might give that a go with the dip switch. The horn itself doesn’t work when connected directly to the battery, and the multimeter shows the wiring is all good (to me a fair while to get the push button to make contact properly. It’s a bit of a silly design!

Cheers
Luca

[1950landy]

Some times if you give the horn a couple of thumps on a block of wood the jar will make it work. I ended up fitting a relay for the horn feed because it wouldn't work if I let it sit for a while , seams to work all the time now.

[Ypsilophora]

Some times if you give the horn a couple of thumps on a block of wood the jar will make it work. I ended up fitting a relay for the horn feed because it wouldn't work if I let it sit for a while , seams to work all the time now.

I’ll give that a go.
If that’s the case I’ll need to keep a rubber mallet at all times to give it a whack!

It seems fitting a relay is the way to go.

[Cadas]

The horn ring collar that sits behind the steering wheel has a brass contact that runs on the side of the steering column. That seems to break off easily

by tapping the steering wheel you force the collar down and the small rivets that hood the connector come into contact with the steering column. That works for a while

They wear really quickly, hence once you start bashing you have to keep going!

[Ypsilophora]

The horn ring collar that sits behind the steering wheel has a brass contact that runs on the side of the steering column. That seems to break off easily

by tapping the steering wheel you force the collar down and the small rivets that hood the connector come into contact with the steering column. That works for a while

They wear really quickly, hence once you start bashing you have to keep going!

I suspect it’s the horn itself that is dodgy, as when I hook a little light instead of the horn it lights up when the horn push button is depressed.

Haven’t had a good look at the horn itself, so not sure if they can be taken apart and what not.

Cheers
Luca

[JDNSW]

From memory, they can be taken apart, but most are rivetted together, so a little enterprise may be needed. One possibility is that the horn is filled with dust or mud, and you may be able to clean it out with a combination of a wire coathanger and compressed air.

[drfish]

I suspect it’s the horn itself that is dodgy, as when I hook a little light instead of the horn it lights up when the horn push button is depressed.

Haven’t had a good look at the horn itself, so not sure if they can be taken apart and what not.

Cheers
Luca

You could try pulling it apart as well, could be as simple as dirty contacts or mud wasp debris…the original 2a horn has a nice note so it’s worth persevering with. My 2a one was similarly faulty, so I thought “what have I got to lose, I can’t break it when it’s already broke”. This video was helpful in dismantling it etc How to repair your MGB horn - YouTube (https://youtu.be/1dY10UJHf_U)

Cheers, Matt

[Ypsilophora]

John, Matt,
Thanks heaps for getting back to me. Tomorrow’s job is the horn!

Stripped and rebuilt the ignition switch, still doesn’t seem to work, which is odd as the contacts were fine once cleaned, although possibly a little worn - might see if I can make a new copper contact with a local engineer/Landy nut who would probably be happy to help.
Doesn’t give full connectivity on glow plug terminal, and when running a 9v battery through it, I only get 7.6v instead of 8.2 through the other terminals (battery wasn’t fully charged).

Rebuilt the foot switch.
As you suggested Matt, just super grotty connections.
Only issue is the tabs crumbled off due to age/galvanic corrosion. So now the face pops out occasionally. DOH!

Earthing issue fixed - thanks heaps John!

[Ypsilophora]

Now the earthing issue is fixed, and the ignition wiring mostly works (minus glow plugs), the engine fires!

But, doesn’t idle well, either dies straight away or coughs along for a bit. I’ll try to add a video. Might help with diagnosis.

I suspect either poorly primed fuel lines or poor timing. Other issue is it sort of sounds like there is air puffing somewhere (can’t really here it when running, but when I had my earthing issue earlier you could hear it due to slower tic over - ie less other noises). Sounds like it’s coming from the right hand side of the engine bay, around the fuel pump/air filter, but the sound could be getting ‘lost’


Edit: can’t work out how to upload a video, will try again tomorrow

[Ypsilophora]

Okay, turns out the tappets had loosed themselves off, this was (I'm assuming) causing the 'chuffing' noise, the engine is also running much much quieter now.
it still seems to lack power, under load it sounds more like other 2.25d do at idle, and at idle it sounds terrible; very very rough - like its only just above a stall.

could be timing?

[JDNSW]

Could be timing, but I would also confirm that compression is even (turn over with crank handle if you don't have a compression gauge), and check for leaks in the intake system - vacuum advance piping, PCV valve if fitted, manifold to head join (put some oil on the join), under carbie. Also check ignition wiring and in the distributor consider the points and also the possibility of the capacitor being faulty.

And then there are carburetor settings!

[Ypsilophora]

I would also confirm that compression is even (turn over with crank handle if you don't have a compression gauge), and check for leaks in the intake system - vacuum advance piping, PCV valve if fitted, manifold to head join (put some oil on the join), under carbie. Also check ignition wiring and in the distributor consider the points and also the possibility of the capacitor being faulty.

And then there are carburetor settings!


Compression may be a little low on one of the cylinders, it's a diesel, so bloody hard to crank by hand - but on one rotation it seems slightly easier.
I've replaced stem seals, bearings and rings. Cylinders weren't oversized at all, and pistons had no sign of wear that I could see. Could be one of the valves not seating right? not sure what else would cause low compression.

Thankfully I don't have to worry about any carbie problems!

Cheers
Luca

[JDNSW]

Right! I should have looked back a page or two and remembered it was a diesel!

It certainly should be running evenly, but low power could simply be that your opinion is biased by more modern vehicles you have driven recently. Uneven running in a diesel is likely to be either injector issues or compression - a valve not seating perfectly or not opening all the way, most likely due to tappet clearance. And note that "injector issues" includes even a very slight leak on one of the injection pipes.

[Ypsilophora]

but on one rotation it seems slightly easier.

okay I lied, just as bloody hard on every cylinder.

adjusted the slow running screw up a little (some fool had turned it nearly completely out), it now idles much much more smoothly.

getting white acrid eye burning smoke (unburnt fuel I assume), and a random miss (at idle it seems to be once every second or two, sometimes more sometimes very rarely).

To me this seems like a fuel delivery issue? I would think low compression would cause continuous missing?

Cheers.

[JDNSW]

Sounds like one injector is not working quite right at very low fuelling. As you say, compression would tend to be constant, although I can envisage ways it might not be, for example, a valve that sticks occasionally, but these would seem unlikely.

Could be one injector is giving a poor spray pattern at very low deliveries, and this pattern is just on the margin of sometimes igniting properly, sometimes delaying slightly.

You can test which cylinder is involved by cracking a union on one injector while it is running, and changing the occasional miss into a regular miss - but any other cylinder except the faulty one will still have the erratic pattern as well as the regular miss.

[Ypsilophora]

Hey John,
Thanks for all your help along the way.

Still having trouble with the engine, I suspect it’s still a fuel delivery issue:

After trying to adjust the timing yesterday, with an improvement in the smoothness of the engine, but no change to the smoking issue, I noticed no. 4 injector seemed to be leaking diesel. At first I assumed it was the fuel pipe connection, but after fiddling around with that it became evident the join was sealing fine. It seemed to be leaking from the head (squeezing past the sealing washer and up past the injector nozzle). I pulled that injector and replaced the crush washer + copper washer. This seemed to make a pretty big difference to the smoking issue, and the engine sounded even smoother than before.

I then took it for a quick drive around the property, and after around 30 minutes the smoke had completely cleared up, with the exception of a slight puff after blipping the throttle (as the revs dropped again). BUT THEN I noticed it started to ‘clatter’. not under load, mainly when idling.
It’s not a rhythmic noise as I’m used to hearing from a knocking engine (not that I have had much experience, but have been around one or two), it’s also more of a ‘clatter’ rather than a ‘knock’.
It’s also started leaking from the injector seating, and it’s started smoking more consistently (still seems like unburnt diesel).

My question is, is it even possible for the injectors to leak back up through the injector ‘hole’? And would this cause a clattering/knocking?

It’s all a little frustrating

[Ypsilophora]

Oddly, despite all the issues I’ve never had any trouble starting it. Even without glow plugs, I kind of assumed any fuel delivery issues would make it difficult to start.
I even accidentally started it we bleeding the last of the air to the injectors (I had the one of the injectors slacked off. It did run horribly though, so that injector probably isn’t too suspect)

I’ll attach a photo of where the diesel ‘pools’ after a few minutes of running. The fuel pipes and whatnot all stay dry though.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210912/639e6ca6d4ffd55538db15b1a20a6c56.jpg

[JDNSW]

Can't tell from the picture where that is coming from, but if it is not coming from the pipe and connection, it has to be coming from a leak somewhere on an injector.

These engines, unless they have poor compression or all injectors in poor condition, will usually start easily except in very cold conditions without heater plugs.

Are you sure the chatter at idle is not from the gearbox (foot on clutch will solve that one!). About the only things in the engine likely to "chatter" is the timing chain or a loose precombustion chamber. (Assuming you can identify tappet noise)

[Ypsilophora]

Are you sure the chatter at idle is not from the gearbox (foot on clutch will solve that one!). About the only things in the engine likely to "chatter" is the timing chain or a loose precombustion chamber. (Assuming you can identify tappet noise)


I don’t think it’s tappet noise, as I didn’t think it was there when I first started it yesterday. It could be that I am overthinking it a little - if it was the tractor I probably wouldn’t even think twice, I may be being a little precious of it because of the amount of time I’ve spent!

A friend who is more knowledgeable of these engine is coming round tomorrow, hopefully he’ll be able to have a listen and help me out!
At the moment I’m quite tempted to just accept it and fully rebuild my spare engine, then drop it in. Will give me the experience of rebuilding one completely, as well as removing a few ‘unknowns’.

Cheers
Luca

[Ypsilophora]

Things are now nearing registration point, probably a good month of still (possibly more, I’m getting better at not underestimating time frames!).

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210914/5ac5c80360510ca1970a94746f0596a2.jpg

After chatting with someone who knows these engine quite well, I feel a lot better about how the engine runs. He reckons the injectors are probably just a bit dodgy, but if I sort them, most of the smoke issues will likely burn off after running it on the highway for a bit.

I need to paint the tail gate at some point, but I’m a little over sanding at the moment!!!



I’m pretty pleased that it actually isn’t leaking much at all, I was expecting it to be worse than it is... actually I should go double check I’ve filled it with oil....... 🧐

[JDNSW]

One point I note in the above picture you need to think about re registration. Those tail lights are 90/110/Defender, and differ in a key respect from Series lights - they do not include a reflector - the later vehicles have a separate reflector. For registration you need to have rear reflectors. You can either install the correct lights - hard to find, and even harder to ascertain exactly which ones were fitted - they varied, and not just over time but where it was built - and will be expensive. Separate reflectors are cheap and readily available.

My 2a has both the correct lights (it is Australian army, hence different to the contemporary civil version!) and separate approved reflectors, installed just above the crossmember each side.

[Ypsilophora]

Okay, an update:
I'm picking up some reflectors from an automotive place tomorrow/soon (when I get into town).

Still struggling with the smoking, and accompanying 'puff' from the exhaust - in fact it seems to be getting worse!!!

I pulled the injectors and tested them - three of the four were great, opening at the correct pressure, and with a nice fine mist like pattern. No. four injector was all dribbly and nasty (and leaked up around the housing - hence the fuel collecting below the injector I suspect). I nabbed one of the injectors from the other engine, which was a little more crusty than my other ones, but had a nice spray pattern, and opened at around 130-135atm.
I was pretty happy with that, as I thought it'd definitely improve things, as 4 working injectors must be better than 3.
Anyhow... it still smokes, actually I can't notice the slightest difference after changing the injector, which is very very disappointing.

As the injectors didn't seem to be the issue after all:
I did a compression test as well - all a tiny bit below 400, which to me sounds fine, 425 ish being optimal. This shouldn't cause any issues, and dodgy rings would cause more of a drop I would have thought?

I now have the glowplugs wired up via a relay (original switch was burnt out at the glowplug terminal), and after 10ish seconds of glowplugs it fires instantly, and I mean instantly, I'm fairly sure it starts better than our modern diesel cars. which considering how much it smokes is somewhat surprising.

I've checked most of the fuel lines for blockages, but haven't found anything yet, possibly might be air leaking somewhere - but again, haven't found an air leak anywhere.

It could potentially be stem seals, but as I'm fairly sure I mentioned earlier, I replaced them. If I can't get it running properly I'll do it again to see if it changes anything.

I'm almost 100% sure it's unburnt diesel, as it smells and looks like it, so possibly the distributer pump is very worn - but wouldn't I have other issues if that was the case? ie. difficult to start, running poorly etc.


the plan is to get it 100% ready for rego, drive it down (around 45km), and hope that it somewhat sorts itself out (maybe it'll get bored of smoking... I remain hopeful! :lol2:). Honestly, if it was smoking a little less, I wouldn't be too fussed, but I suspect it wont even pass the way it is.

On a positive note, I've rebuilt the smiths round heater, does anyone have a diagram of where the inlet/outlet hoses run? I think one is from the thermostat bypass area, but not sure about the other.

Cheers,
Luca

[JDNSW]

This engine is a 1950s design using largely 1930s technology (Ricardo Comet system), one of the first mass produced small diesels, and the first diesel in a small four wheel drive.

I wonder if you are simply expecting it to have smoke emissions in line with current designs?

[Ypsilophora]

I wonder if you are simply expecting it to have smoke emissions in line with current designs?

Hi John,


Yes and no... I am aware that old diesels smoke, and am expecting some - but since owning this I've been around 7 or 8 2.25 diesels that have been in various states of running. Mine is by far the worst!
if it was just a bit of smoke for the first few minutes on start, or on hard acceleration I wouldn't be too worried, it's more that after it's been running for a while you can quite literally see the smog settling along the river flat!!! we live on a fair size property, and it's still embarrassing to run [bigwhistle]


Thanks
Luca

[Mettalique]

There are lots of engines that smoke and still have good compression. Still run sweet but use oil. My take on this would be that the oil rings are worn or not doing their job properly. I’ve rebuilt engines that used oil very quickly and for some reason the rings didn’t bed in. I’ve had engines (Sigma springs to mind) that have very good compression but use oil and blow smoke. Valve seals tend to puff smoke on start up and you can get them to also puff smoke if you hold the revs up for thirty seconds or so then drop the revs and then rev it up again. Not always but they will do it if they are bad. Some engines run badly but use no oil as well but it can be the camshaft worn enough to make it uneven (falcons) this of course is oil smoke I’m talking about not unburnt fuel diesel smoke. That is a different story…

[JDNSW]

Valve stem seals tend not to be an issue in diesels, because you rarely have a vacuum in the inlet manifold to suck oil down the valve stems.

[Ypsilophora]

It's not using oil in any noticeable way... maybe a very small amount, but definitely not enough to have dropped the oil level at all.

I've got a spare distribution pump that I'm going to drop in and see if it changes anything.

Cheers
Luca