300tdi drive/serpentine belt shredded

[hitch]

The dreaded drive belt squeal syndrome has infected my 96 130 tdi .
First I changed the tensioner bearing . No change .
Tipping water on the belt stopped it briefly.
Then because of a leaking injector pump , the belt was removed , while I swapped out the pump .( another thread I recently posted )
After only driving a few kms the belt started to fray along the engine side edge.
I replaced it with another used belt from the donor disco engine as well as its tensioner.
I was going to put talc on but before I got the chance , same again , belt fraying along engine side edge.
It seems the belt is running too close to the engine side of the power steering pump pulley .
I had the power steering pump off to replace the gasket ( purchased from czech republic ) and thought I may have put it back on incorrectly , but it says 'front' on the pulley .
I have read elsewhere that they must go back on to run in the same direction. I did not realise that at the time.
At the moment it is running on 6 v's ( I cut off the loose edge ) while I nut this out, hopefully with the help of the forum members input !
So I could do the penny/washer modification of the tensioner (or even buy a new one!)
I have a new gates belt but am reluctant to put it on until I have a few wiser persons opinions !
Any help would be appreciated.
cheers
Hitch
edit : P.S. why am I a fossicker ?!

[Tins]

edit : P.S. why am I a fossicker ?! Your status changes as your post numbers go up.... If you don't like being a fossicker get involved with the silly word association game we play on here. Your numbers will increase dramatically. How do you think I became a forum sage??[bigwhistle]

As for the belt, try using a straight edge to see if any of the pulleys are out of alignment. I had a similar issue and mine was because the new bearing didn't have the same thickness, meaning the pulley was about a mm out of alignment. Just a thought.

[Blknight.aus]

its possible to get the pump in out of alignment, my method for finding the culprit is to mark the edge of an old belt with slow drying paint as I slowly turn the engine over.

the ribbed pully that is scrubbing the paint off is the culprit, if no ribbed pullies are doing this mark the back edge of a small section of the belt, watch how it gets rubbed off on the smooth pullies, the one that "smears" the paint is the one thats out of alignment.

Sometimes you'll spot it on a new belt, on the ribbed pully its easy to see, on the smooth you're looking for a non symetrical spacing of the belt on the pully.

Good luck.

[loanrangie]

Check for play in the ps pump, on the way to failure the shaft walks and puts the alignment out.
This is how I found mine was failing.

[DeanoH]

All of the previously mentioned issues can affect drive belt alignment. Just 1 mm out on a ribbed pulley will give serious squealing, 2 mm can cause the belt to jump and shred.

Trial and error is one way of determining where the problem is but a better and more positive way is to use one of these.


Gates 91006 Serpentine Belt Alignment Tool: Amazon.com.au: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com.au/Gates-91006-Serpentine-Belt-Alignment/dp/B000WYFI1A)


Using this tool it is easy to check the alignment of each ribbed pulley accurately.

If you still have problems replace the tensioner with a new one as this is a high probability suspect in skewing the belt alignment.

Deano :)

[hitch]

Thank you for your input.
so , with the power steering pump which was replaced a couple of years (2-3 thousand kms) ago the belt does run off center but there is no play in the shaft or any other pulley for that matter.
I rebuilt this engine about 4 years ago (5 thousand kms) and my other thought was have I mounted the alternator with its spacers incorrectly( if this is possible) which then drags the belt across the p/s pully. I have not found a diagram to illustrate the proper arrangement (on the interweb thingy) and keep forgetting to look in my manuals which are in my workshop 5 kms away.
With the straight edge technique ,is it lined up along the bearing surface with the grooves on it or against the outer edge which presumes the belt edge is the same distance from the outer edge of each pulley.
merci , grazie, arigato, gracias ,khop khun mak kha , danke (ie many thanks)
hitch

p.s. for us raw recruits , what is the list of titles and number of posts required for each level !

[hitch]

I was unable to see any obvious problems , despite noticing the asymmetric spacing on the power steering pulley, as the 300tdi disco paddock ornaments pulley also looks like this too .So I thought it was all down to putting a used belt on in reverse and so with some misgivings I tried out a new belt . Now I have a new belt with a frayed edge ! Great!
After spending more time peering into two engine bays repeatedly and comparing gaps here and there I noticed the shaft of the power steering pump was visibly shinier on the defender . After removing the pulley I still had no indication of any movement but after I gave the shaft a bit of a tap with a hammer it moved back into the pump . Not a good thing .
I guess the disco is about to donate its power steering pump to the defender ! (as well as the injector pump it gave up on the weekend !)
Can the power steering pump shaft be 'put back into position' or is this terminal ? I did replace the gasket to repair a leak a couple of years ago, but I have not seen any posts regarding fixing the shaft problem .
loanrangie , you were right on the money !
blackknightaus and his asymetric belt position hint kept me looking at the power steering pump .
thanks for the comments people.
hitch

[Tins]

After spending more time peering into two engine bays repeatedly and comparing gaps here and there I noticed the shaft of the power steering pump was visibly shinier on the defender . After removing the pulley I still had no indication of any movement but after I gave the shaft a bit of a tap with a hammer it moved back into the pump . Not a good thing .


Seriously? I can't remember, but I don't think a PS pump is that dear. Mario ( Roverlord, vendor on here), will give you a good price. If you have any doubts, now is the time to change it.

As for the list of titles, and number of posts needed, I have been on here for over 10 years and I am yet to unravel that mystery. Incisor might tell you. But, you can get some idea by looking at the number of posts people have made vs their 'title'. But there is definitely some kind of arcane weirdness going on. Enjoy.

[Blknight.aus]

can be fixed but not worth it.

moderately high failure rate on repair, not usually long lifed and a replacements not that dear.

[hitch]

apparently the movement of the shaft in and out is a result of wear to the retaining pin that sits in a slot in the shaft.
Has anyone made a replacement pin ? After I have got it to bits I will see if I can make one up but it will have to wait until the injector pump has been rebuilt . I just like fixing things if they can be fixed . It's not so much about the cost of the replacement parts .
edit : as the disco pump is also showing signs of wear with the belt running to one side I will eventually need to attend to it as well !

[Tins]

I just like fixing things if they can be fixed . It's not so much about the cost of the replacement parts .

I have a D1 and a Series III, if you have a minute or two....

Seriously though, nice attitude. Let us know how it goes.

[Blknight.aus]

It's not so much about the cost of the replacement parts .[/I]


No, its not.

[hitch]

So after multiple episodes of removal and replacement of the power steering pump it is now obvious that the sensible thing to do is buy a new one!
However that is not what I did!
I made some replacement "pins" (some with a drill and bench grinder and some on a lathe -can't tell them apart now!?) and replaced the pin (actually a key between the shaft and the rotor in the pump) ,reinstalled the pump . Worked fine for about 10 kms then the shaft walked again.
I eventually worked out that the shaft is held in place as a press fit in the bearing inner ring at the front of the pump body but over time loosens allowing the shaft to "walk".
After bravely wrecking my pump by removing the shaft by banging it on the bench (it was obviously pretty loose) and pulling out the bearing (with a home made puller- bolt spit length ways from head to half way up) I took a trip to the big smoke's (Ballarat) ye olde bearing shoppe and the kind man said "yeah I reckon this bearing and this seal and some bearing locktite is what you need . $20 thanks"
Back to the shed and reassembled it , then another installment into the defender and Bobs your auntie ?
Anyway ,it's still going after a few hundred kms .
TA DA !!! FIXED ............ maybe , but for how long? that is the question! and I still am not game to put a new belt on yet!

P.S. I have photos but don't know how to put them on here.

[Blknight.aus]

So after multiple episodes of removal and replacement of the power steering pump it is now obvious that the sensible thing to do is buy a new one!
However that is not what I did!
I made some replacement "pins" (some with a drill and bench grinder and some on a lathe -can't tell them apart now!?) and replaced the pin (actually a key between the shaft and the rotor in the pump) ,reinstalled the pump . Worked fine for about 10 kms then the shaft walked again.
I eventually worked out that the shaft is held in place as a press fit in the bearing inner ring at the front of the pump body but over time loosens allowing the shaft to "walk".
After bravely wrecking my pump by removing the shaft by banging it on the bench (it was obviously pretty loose) and pulling out the bearing (with a home made puller- bolt spit length ways from head to half way up) I took a trip to the big smoke's (Ballarat) ye olde bearing shoppe and the kind man said "yeah I reckon this bearing and this seal and some bearing locktite is what you need . $20 thanks"
Back to the shed and reassembled it , then another installment into the defender and Bobs your auntie ?
Anyway ,it's still going after a few hundred kms .
TA DA !!! FIXED ............ maybe , but for how long? that is the question! and I still am not game to put a new belt on yet!

P.S. I have photos but don't know how to put them on here.

typically <5k km unless you like living on steering lock then im not sure.

hope you used 680 and the primer for the bearing mount.