1,300kms from home and no alternator

[drivesafe]

D4 plus Caravan, minus an alternator and 1,300kms to home.

Hi folks, this is an incident that occurred just before Christmas to an AULRO member, penglish.

penglish was enjoying some holiday time with his family but as he pulled up at a fuel bowser at the Pimba Roadhouse ( just south of Woomera ) and turned the ignition off, he sees a red light on the dash a split second before he turned the ignition off.

So he turns the ignition back on and sure enough, the battery light comes on.

After some investigating, he finds the alternator was no longer charging.

He is towing a caravan, and is 1,300kms from home, literally in the middle of nowhere.

After making some enquiries, it is going to cost him $800 to have the D4 towed to Port Augusta, and he would have to leave his family and caravan at the road house.

After making numerous enquiries about the availability of an alternator in port Augusta, he found there was not only none available there, he could not locate one even in Adelaide. Even Land Rover Adelaide did not have the part in stock. It was 30 December so most places were also closed.

So after a call to me, and told me he had a 2,000w Honda generator, and a battery charger in the caravan. Plus one of those cigarette plug LED volt meters.

penglish rewired his USI-160 isolator, so that all his batteries ( cranking battery, auxiliary battery and two house batteries in his caravan ) were now all linked together and spent the night in a local caravan park, on a powered site in Woomera.

The following morning, with all four batteries charged, penglish set off to Port Augusta, 188kms away. He made it to Port Augusta with the cranking battery at 11.0 volts.

In Port Augusta, he bought the biggest battery charger he could get. A 21 amp charger. He also bought a new cranking battery, just incase the now old one, didn’t make it.

In Port Augusta, penglish used his portable gen to power both the caravan battery charger and new battery charger. Running them for 3 hours, before proceeding on to Morgen, some 287kms.

167960

In Morgan, he stayed at another powered site, using both chargers to recharge all his batteries overnight.

The following day, he drove 226kms to Redcliff, where he spent another 3 hours recharging all his batteries before continuing 177kms to Hopeton, and another night at a powered site.

The following day was a 385kms drive from Hopeton to Melbourne and home at last, where he could finally get the alternator repaired.

The new battery charger cost $229, the new cranking battery was $329 and the alternator repair was $1,100.

[Bulletman]

Thats why the second spare part i bought and always carry with me is a new alternator.

First was a code reader.

Glad to see some lateral thinking solved the issues.

Bulletman

[Briar]

Three questions:
1) What about if I only have an SC80 on my Traxide system?
2) How many really carry a spare alternator, is this a frequent issue?
3) How much for an alternator to carry?

I mean I like the idea of carrying spares but where do you stop?

[Bulletman]

Three questions:
1) What about if I only have an SC80 on my Traxide system?
2) How many really carry a spare alternator, is this a frequent issue?
3) How much for an alternator to carry?

I mean I like the idea of carrying spares but where do you stop?

No - where do you start - the biggest killer of these cars is low voltage , the car basically stops and shuts down when the battery isnt charging and the voltage drops to if i remember correctly 10.8V.

An alternator for these cars is not something readily available ,i got mine from the UK ,genuine Denso unit and it stays in the car.

Each for their own ,but this thread highlights how hard they are to source , and what the possible costs could be if they fail... pretty easy decision in my eyes.

The cost of the battery, charger and alternator repair , would proberly buy 2 new units from the UK.

Bulletman

[DiscoDB]

Gotta love being a modern day bush mechanic. By re-wiring the USI-160 I presume it was bypassed entirely.

But does show why carry a spare alternator if you have a generator handy. I can imagine mounting the generator on the trailer drawbar and leaving it running with the chargers connected. Could then double the range between stops.

[DiscoJeffster]

Gotta love being a modern day bush mechanic. By re-wiring the USI-160 I presume it was bypassed entirely.

But does show why carry a spare alternator if you have a generator handy. I can imagine mounting the generator on the trailer drawbar and leaving it running with the chargers connected. Could then double the range between stops.

To be honest, that’s where I thought this story was going

[Milton477]

Thanks for confirmation that this works Drivesafe. When purchasing & installing a Victron Multiplus Inverter/120A Charger in my van, I wondered if I could use my generator running on the van while travelling to charge the van batteries & then keep the D4 running & you have now confirmed what I hoped.

[Eevo]

at least the honda was reliable

[Tins]

No - where do you start - the biggest killer of these cars is low voltage , the car basically stops and shuts down when the battery isnt charging and the voltage drops to if i remember correctly 10.8V.



Bulletman

Even a D2 stops when low voltage is reached. Well, mine did. ( Something else for the D1 vs D2 thread... )

Where do you stop? Well, I'd say you deal with obvious show stoppers. If I was planning a trip into remote areas I'd replace the usual suspects and carry the old ones as spares. I know that GVM is an issue, so I'd carry spares or things that cannot be cobbled together, although Tim's post shows that cobbling together can be more than you'd think.
Classic solution, and a reminder that help can be at hand. Well done, Tim, and penglish of course.

[Eric SDV6SE]

An alternator for these cars is not something readily available

Sorry but i disagree there, rovacraft has them in stock, genuine denso $680 or so. Replacing them takes about an hour.

[Eric SDV6SE]

D4 plus Caravan, minus an alternator and 1,300kms to home.

Hi folks, this is an incident that occurred just before Christmas to an AULRO member, penglish.

penglish was enjoying some holiday time with his family but as he pulled up at a fuel bowser at the Pimba Roadhouse ( just south of Woomera ) and turned the ignition off, he sees a red light on the dash a split second before he turned the ignition off.

So he turns the ignition back on and sure enough, the battery light comes on.

After some investigating, he finds the alternator was no longer charging.

He is towing a caravan, and is 1,300kms from home, literally in the middle of nowhere.

After making some enquiries, it is going to cost him $800 to have the D4 towed to Port Augusta, and he would have to leave his family and caravan at the road house.

After making numerous enquiries about the availability of an alternator in port Augusta, he found there was not only none available there, he could not locate one even in Adelaide. Even Land Rover Adelaide did not have the part in stock. It was 30 December so most places were also closed.

So after a call to me, and told me he had a 2,000w Honda generator, and a battery charger in the caravan. Plus one of those cigarette plug LED volt meters.

penglish rewired his USI-160 isolator, so that all his batteries ( cranking battery, auxiliary battery and two house batteries in his caravan ) were now all linked together and spent the night in a local caravan park, on a powered site in Woomera.

The following morning, with all four batteries charged, penglish set off to Port Augusta, 188kms away. He made it to Port Augusta with the cranking battery at 11.0 volts.

In Port Augusta, he bought the biggest battery charger he could get. A 21 amp charger. He also bought a new cranking battery, just incase the now old one, didn’t make it.

In Port Augusta, penglish used his portable gen to power both the caravan battery charger and new battery charger. Running them for 3 hours, before proceeding on to Morgen, some 287kms.

167960

In Morgan, he stayed at another powered site, using both chargers to recharge all his batteries overnight.

The following day, he drove 226kms to Redcliff, where he spent another 3 hours recharging all his batteries before continuing 177kms to Hopeton, and another night at a powered site.

The following day was a 385kms drive from Hopeton to Melbourne and home at last, where he could finally get the alternator repaired.

The new battery charger cost $229, the new cranking battery was $329 and the alternator repair was $1,100.

Glad it was fixed, noted you wrote alternator repair and not replace, a new genyine denso is about 680 bucks, cheaper than a rewind and diode replacement surely. Btw i like the idea of having the genny running and charging batteries whilst driving, but probably not the safest way to do it. So recharging batteries at powered campsites is a great solution. Reminds me of that movie the Martian where he drives the rover 3500miles to the resupply ship. Well done Tim and penglish.

[Tins]

at least the honda was reliable

lol. I pulled a Honda mower out from under the house yesterday. Not done a thing for nearly 5 years. Dry fuel tank. Filled it with fuel. With limited confidence pulled the rope. With a moments stiction a worry, first pull the thing started. Has a more reliable small engine been made? Ever?

[Hogarthde]

I did not read it as generator running whilst driving,......

[John_D4]

lol. I pulled a Honda mower out from under the house yesterday. Not done a thing for nearly 5 years. Dry fuel tank. Filled it with fuel. With limited confidence pulled the rope. With a moments stiction a worry, first pull the thing started. Has a more reliable small engine been made? Ever?

You haven’t mowed your lawn in 5 years?

[scarry]

lol. I pulled a Honda mower out from under the house yesterday. Not done a thing for nearly 5 years. Dry fuel tank. Filled it with fuel. With limited confidence pulled the rope. With a moments stiction a worry, first pull the thing started. Has a more reliable small engine been made? Ever?

Mine is over 25 yrs old, starts first time every time, never had an issue.
Last place was 1/2 acre, this place almost 1,so has done some work.

Back on topic,the owner of the vehicle was lucky the alternator failed the way it did.If it had seized,for what ever reason, or had a mechanical failure, the vehicle would not have been drivable.They can also short out at times, maybe the wires could be disconnected from it, and the vehicle still driven, maybe not?

[drivesafe]

What about if I only have an SC80 on my Traxide system?
Hi Briar, while a D3 would be difficult to bridge batteries, but a D4 would be easy.

With either the SC80 or the DT90 fitted, simply disconnect the cable running between the circuit breaker and the auxiliary battery’s positive ( + ) terminal, at the circuit breaker.

Take the cover off the cranking battery compartment and loosen one of the bolts connecting cables to the cranking battery’s positive ( + ) terminal clamp.

You would not remove the bolt, just loosen it.

Then, as the lead from the auxiliary battery’s positive ( + ) terminal has a 5mm eye terminal on it, you can not fit the bolt on the cranking battery’s clamp through this as the bolt is an 8M bolt.

So simply loosen the bolt enough to allow the terminal on the auxiliary battery’s cable to be pushed under the edge of the terminals connected to the cranking battery’s positive ( + ) terminal clamp and tighten the bolt up so it holds the terminal in place.

As long as this is a tight fit, the cable will stay in place until the alternator is fixed. In the meantime, all the batteries will remain connected while drive and charging.



BTW, Briar did you get up the Tamborine Mountain?

[Graeme]

They can also short out at times, maybe the wires could be disconnected from it, and the vehicle still driven, maybe not?Its not easy to disconnect the cable from the D4's alternator and the other end is joined to the starter cable at the starter motor which is why I fitted a dedicated alternator power cable to my D4 when I had it. The dedicated alternator cable was connected to the battery via a switchable circuit breaker to allow the alternator to be isolated if it shorted.

[Milton477]

I did not read it as generator running whilst driving,......

You did. It happens regularly to charge batteries, cool the van before stopping at night...

[PerthDisco]

lol. I pulled a Honda mower out from under the house yesterday. Not done a thing for nearly 5 years. Dry fuel tank. Filled it with fuel. With limited confidence pulled the rope. With a moments stiction a worry, first pull the thing started. Has a more reliable small engine been made? Ever?

Briggs & Stratton side valve perhaps.

At about age 12 I took the head off ours with an adjustable shifter to ‘see what was in there’ not knowing what a side valve was but luckily that is what it was. Dad was not happy to say the least but slapped it back on and did up bolts and didn’t miss a beat thereafter.

Case in point any engine putting out low power per cc with no concern of fuel economy can be made to be pretty reliable.

Only a very few lawn mower engines would ever receive an oil change in 20+ years in my estimation.

[Briar]

Hi Briar, while a D3 would be difficult to bridge batteries, but a D4 would be easy.

With either the SC80 or the DT90 fitted, simply disconnect the cable running between the circuit breaker and the auxiliary battery’s positive ( + ) terminal, at the circuit breaker.

Take the cover off the cranking battery compartment and loosen one of the bolts connecting cables to the cranking battery’s positive ( + ) terminal clamp.

You would not remove the bolt, just loosen it.

Then, as the lead from the auxiliary battery’s positive ( + ) terminal has a 5mm eye terminal on it, you can not fit the bolt on the cranking battery’s clamp through this as the bolt is an 8M bolt.

So simply loosen the bolt enough to allow the terminal on the auxiliary battery’s cable to be pushed under the edge of the terminals connected to the cranking battery’s positive ( + ) terminal clamp and tighten the bolt up so it holds the terminal in place.

As long as this is a tight fit, the cable will stay in place until the alternator is fixed. In the meantime, all the batteries will remain connected while drive and charging.



BTW, Briar did you get up the Tamborine Mountain?

Thanks Tim

Yes, did get up Tamborine Mountain but didn't go to DCS. Stinking hot day, even up there. After a couple of walks, wife wanted to go back to Air Con. I checked the morning I went up, and no one wanted any specific questions asked of DCS so I didn't feel compelled to go. Curtis Falls and the Skywalk at Tamborine Mountain are nice walks.

[Bulletman]

Sorry but i disagree there, rovacraft has them in stock, genuine denso $680 or so. Replacing them takes about an hour.

You are more than entitled to disagree, but if you read the OP they couldn't track one down in Adelaide, i know first hand that unless its changed in the last month , none are available in Darwin or Alice.. This is why i said not easily available. I can only wonder how long it would have taken to get 1 from Perth to Pimba..

Altho this thread highlights what can be done to jury rig something to get home , I think it also highlights how a part that costs $680 as per your post ended up costing not only the stress of the break down and the impending options of towing, leaving family behind , it also worked out very expensive in buying a new battery, charger and then spending $1100 to repair a $680 part...

I had my D3 alternator delivered to my door for under $500 from Advanced factors and looking on their website a D4 denso unit wont be much more.

Bulletman

[Bulletman]

Its not easy to disconnect the cable from the D4's alternator and the other end is joined to the starter cable at the starter motor which is why I fitted a dedicated alternator power cable to my D4 when I had it. The dedicated alternator cable was connected to the battery via a switchable circuit breaker to allow the alternator to be isolated if it shorted.

I have done the same on my D3. The dedicated cable also makes changing the alternator alot easier as i made it long enough to be able to pull forward to the front of the engine.

Bulletman

[PhilipA]

I think the brushes etc on a D2 TD5 are similar to Toyota parts. The first week I had the car I had to replace the alternator as the brush box got filled with oil from the(neglected) front camshaft plug.

While the part number is not the same , I ordered the part from UK and fitted it so presumably I have a good alternator standing by.

BUT carry a bloody alternator?
Perhaps carry a set of brushes ( its a unit in these) and rectifier unit .
Regards PhilipA

[penglish]

Hi everyone. It was me who was the subject of Tim’s post. Firstly, I would like to publicly say a huge thank you to Tim. Most of you who read this forum will know him, but the customer service this guy provides is absolutely insane. Without his help I would have well and truly been stuck up ship creek!

Just to clarify a few things. The timing was actually between Christmas and New Year which was part of the problem as everything was shut. There were no parts in South Australia, even Land Rover in Adelaide would have taken a week to get the part from Melbourne. Multiple calls to other mechanics in both Adelaide and Port Augusta that were actually open at the time also came up negative in terms of an available part. So we just decided to go home and get it replaced in Melbourne. Just a question for those who carry a spare alternator, if I actually had the part with me, is it something that any mechanic can replace? It looks like a fairly simple job (only a few bolts), but it looks like it’s really difficult to get to.

I also had the alternator replaced in Melbourne and not repaired. I think the old one was well and truly dead. If I was to purchase a spare, what’s the best recommendation?

Finally, I didn’t charge while I was driving. I did give some serious thought to it, but thought there might be a few dangers involved with running the generator while moving, so we just had a lot of 3 to 4 hour charging stops, and battery changes.

Another quick tip for anybody who is in a similar situation, the Honda generator has two output plugs. I found that the battery charged quicker by using one of the outputs for the 21 amp battery charger directly to the battery, and running a second power lead from the second output back to the caravan. The current running back through the Anderson plug also provided some additional charge.

Again, if I didn’t make it clear above thank you Tim, I’m not sure how I would have made it back without your assistance, as even if I did get a tow, the closest place I could actually get it repaired was Melbourne.

[101RRS]

You are more than entitled to disagree, but if you read the OP they couldn't track one down in Adelaide, i know first hand that unless its changed in the last month , none are available in Darwin or Alice.. This is why i said not easily available. I can only wonder how long it would have taken to get 1 from Perth to Pimba..

Altho this thread highlights what can be done to jury rig something to get home , I think it also highlights how a part that costs $680 as per your post ended up costing not only the stress of the break down and the impending options of towing, leaving family behind , it also worked out very expensive in buying a new battery, charger and then spending $1100 to repair a $680 part...

I had my D3 alternator delivered to my door for under $500 from Advanced factors and looking on their website a D4 denso unit wont be much more.

Bulletman

Why not carry a spare engine and spare gearbox as well - when my alternator failed at 12 pm, I picked one up at Ashdown Ingram at 3 pm (they had 3 in stock) - for sure it depends where you are - sorry I dont like towing a box trailer full of spare parts behind my car when I hop down to the shops.

If you are worried carry a rebuild kit for the alternator - it is generally the rectifier that fails - they are available on ebay pretty cheap and fit in in a small sandwich bag.

[PerthDisco]

Small reminder for WA folks I have my old but still working perfect D3 alternator in the shed if anyone wants a trip spare or Frankenstein project item to mess with it.

[Bulletman]

Why not carry a spare engine and spare gearbox as well - when my alternator failed at 12 pm, I picked one up at Ashdown Ingram at 3 pm (they had 3 in stock) - for sure it depends where you are - sorry I dont like towing a box trailer full of spare parts behind my car when I hop down to the shops.

If you are worried carry a rebuild kit for the alternator - it is generally the rectifier that fails - they are available on ebay pretty cheap and fit in in a small sandwich bag.

Each for their own , but if you are in a remote area- which are talking - the chances of someone being able to rebuild an alternator are in my view slim ,on the other hand changing out the alternator is an easier option for the average person who can spin a spanner.

If you never leave suburbia you dont need to buy any spares , but considering a part that will fit under the rear seats and can save alot of grief in my eyes its a no brainer if doing any form of travel outside suburbia.

obviously plenty of others dont follow my views and thats fine.

Bulletman

[Tombie]

Bit carrying all these spares has the very result that you’ll need a spare...[emoji849]

D4 alternators usually go around 140-160k
Just swap it out beforehand and shelve the spare.

If said forum member had known, I would have arranged a unit in under 24 hours and delivered it to Pimba in another 2...

[Blknight.aus]

if you still have the old alternator can I have it to see if I can knock up a how to on doing a field repair?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Why not carry a spare engine and spare gearbox as well - when my alternator failed at 12 pm, I picked one up at Ashdown Ingram at 3 pm (they had 3 in stock) - for sure it depends where you are - sorry I dont like towing a box trailer full of spare parts behind my car when I hop down to the shops.

If you are worried carry a rebuild kit for the alternator - it is generally the rectifier that fails - they are available on ebay pretty cheap and fit in in a small sandwich bag.

Fully agree, carry a rectifier if you must. My alternator’s rectifier failed at about 180,000km iirc. Replaced with genuine complete unit as I didn’t trust the bearings in it to contemplate a rebuild. I’m expecting it to last another 180,000km. Note I do not run a dual battery set up in the vehicle, only an intervolt solid state isolator to connect and charge a 200Ah AGM in the camper when connected.

i am glad for the OP that there was a workaround and they got home safely.

[441]

Does anyone have advice or links to a good place to go and review ‘how to’ replace the alternator? It’s sounds like something I should do some homework on prior to heading out bush in my older D4.

[penglish]

I just wanted to reply to this thread again and highlight my original post #24 on the previous page. It got posted out of order for some reason (i think held up with a moderator) and I just wanted to make sure my appreciation for Tim’s help is out there.

[PerthDisco]

Does anyone have advice or links to a good place to go and review ‘how to’ replace the alternator? It’s sounds like something I should do some homework on prior to heading out bush in my older D4.

YouTube is your friend for almost any job just have to be aware most USA videos reference the V8 petrol engine.

This is 2.7 but close enough for 3.0

DISCOVERY 3 LR3 ALTERNATOR REPLACEMENT - YouTube (https://youtu.be/-JjFBxgWGHE)

[Briar]

Appreciate this thread. My D4 is due to get Timing belts done by my local Indie in March. I spoke to him about his opinion of the longevity of the alternator, whether to replace it and how easy was it to do "on the track" if needed. He said, yes, good to replace at about my distance (155,000km). He only uses Denso units. ($600 something).

As far as doing a track side replacement if needed, he reckoned it would be very difficult. He said that he needs to access not only under bonnet but also have to take a wheel off and through wheel arch area. This sounded to me like having to use stands or hoist as well.

Needless to say, I made decision to get alternator done at same time as belts.

[PerthDisco]

Appreciate this thread. My D4 is due to get Timing belts done by my local Indie in March. I spoke to him about his opinion of the longevity of the alternator, whether to replace it and how easy was it to do "on the track" if needed. He said, yes, good to replace at about my distance (155,000km). He only uses Denso units. ($600 something).

As far as doing a track side replacement if needed, he reckoned it would be very difficult. He said that he needs to access not only under bonnet but also have to take a wheel off and through wheel arch area. This sounded to me like having to use stands or hoist as well.

Needless to say, I made decision to get alternator done at same time as belts.

And water pump and plastic hose connectors also. A no brainer.

[Briar]

And water pump and plastic hose connectors also. A no brainer.

That was done about 2 years back. Alloy one now.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Still to do water pump, i call BS on having to take the wheel off to do the alternator. Its one of the easier changeouts to do, however in typical LR fashion, they've made the cable to the alternator about 5mm long and routed in the worst possible way, so its a real pita to get off and refit. All access is from underneath.

[Briar]

Still to do water pump, i call BS on having to take the wheel off to do the alternator. Its one of the easier changeouts to do, however in typical LR fashion, they've made the cable to the alternator about 5mm long and routed in the worst possible way, so its a real pita to get off and refit. All access is from underneath.

Hi Eric

You may be right about the wheel. Don't want to verbal my Indie. He didn't actually say about taking the wheel off but that was my take on what he said as he said something about working underneath near wheel arch to do alternator. Just my assumption about wheel off. However, he did say it was not something easy to do on the track.

On a second note, you may know. What about replacing the Oil pump as well. I'm sure that I've read somewhere about inconsistent oil flow having an impact on the bearing/ crank issue. Is the oil pump easy enough to replace when doing belts as well?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Sorry Briar, no idea on the oil pump, others on here with far more knowledge will know.

[DiscoDB]

Hi Eric

You may be right about the wheel. Don't want to verbal my Indie. He didn't actually say about taking the wheel off but that was my take on what he said as he said something about working underneath near wheel arch to do alternator. Just my assumption about wheel off. However, he did say it was not something easy to do on the track.

On a second note, you may know. What about replacing the Oil pump as well. I'm sure that I've read somewhere about inconsistent oil flow having an impact on the bearing/ crank issue. Is the oil pump easy enough to replace when doing belts as well?

A few of us on here would always recommend replacing the oil pump when changing timing belts. It is the lowest cost time to do and gives peace of mind for another 7 years.