Buying Advice - HSE/X Defender

[saileshpm]

Hi AULRO.

New member here and looking to get some advice from all of you regarding the L663 Defender. Perth based here.

I've come from a background of Toyota Landcruiser and had the recent LC200 Sahara before selling it off just before March last year when everything was uncertain with COVID.

I'm seriously considering the LC300 (whenever that is due) alongside the Defender HSE or X in either the P400 or D300. Hugely impressed with the fit and finish of these Defender models and the comfort of the drive - although arguably I think the LC is quite comfortable too in its own way (barge/couch like). Main uses with be highway driving (I do about 20-25k kms each year), and some offroading - nothing too extreme although having the possibility of touring Australia at some stage like some of you AULRO guys have done, would be great.

My main worries are resale and reliability and I suppose I've had the comfort of these things with the Toyota ownership but would like to know in general how supportive LR Australia is when it comes to these things and perhaps if any of you have had major issues with your Defender already? I've read the other thread where many of you are admittedly sceptical when it comes to reliability and buy it for the sheer driving and off-roading pleasure.

Any advice as to whether to go down HSE or X route and any 'must-have' options? (the options one is new for me given that there was literally 0 to choose from in the LC!)

I welcome any and all comments - however biased they may be - as it will help in getting some alternative views from all of you.

Thank you in advance!

[clive22]

It’s early days with both reliability and resale. the defender has considerable appeal. If you travel to fairly regional areas then not only is the land rover network essentially non existent, you may also have trouble getting a rural mechanic to look at it. It’s Toyota all the way outback and with their excellent dealer network you may get going again.

If your happy to truck it to a major centre or capital then do it. Land Rover make their money selling to well off urban people, it’s just good business. They have pretty much given up on the rural market.

Personally I’d prefer a proven product. the defender is near new and now has new engine, hybrid, 4wd system. I’d wait before dropping coin who knows?

Resale is hard to say, but the Toyota tax is real and you pay extra generally for 2nd hand Toyota’s. Which is great if your selling one.

Right now For mine if your doing short trips out of the capitals go the defender. Long remote trips play it safe go the Toyota.

[clive22]

It’s early days with both reliability and resale. the defender has considerable appeal. If you travel to fairly regional areas then not only is the land rover network essentially non existent, you may also have trouble getting a rural mechanic to look at it. It’s Toyota all the way outback and with their excellent dealer network you may get going again.

If your happy to truck it to a major centre or capital then do it. Land Rover make their money selling to well off urban people, it’s just good business. They have pretty much given up on the rural market.

Personally I’d prefer a proven product. the defender is near new and now has new engine, hybrid, 4wd system. I’d wait before dropping coin who knows?

Resale is hard to say, but the Toyota tax is real and you pay extra generally for 2nd hand Toyota’s. Which is great if your selling one.

Right now For mine if your doing short trips out of the capitals go the defender. Long remote trips play it safe go the Toyota.

[zilch]

early days to tell on how it will stack from a reliability perspective, but i have had mine 3 months and no problems so far and that is the feedback i am getting also from owners on other
forums. If you are on Facebook, it may be a good idea to join both the the "Australian All new defender owners group" and the "All new Defenders owners Group" you will see many
are kitting theirs out for tours, or have even completed trips to the likes of the Arctic circle etc. I for one will be doing a lap of Oz in mine this year, I am reasonably comfortable on the vehicles
capabilities and its abilities to handle whatever OZ can throw at it..

There are a few other Defender forums out there, but many seemed inundated with traditionalists who just whinge about the new one and add bugger all value to someone seeking advice on
one.. apparently is not a "real defender" that leaks, is cramped and drives like a tractor..

[chuck]

If you buy wise i have never had a problem with resale values.

I usually buy at the end of the year or during a sales campaign.

I bought my D5 on last day of the month last day of the year and got a huge discount on a stock car that had everything in it i wanted except for rear diff lock.

Sold D3 & 2 x D4's for surprisingly good prices.

My cars have always had good service history & i have had the luxury of selling them with factory warranty.

[Loubrey]

Looking at Depreciation on all current (< 3 Years old) Land Rover models, the Evoque is by a country mile ahead with the lowest average depreciation figures and the Range Rover Sport fares the worst.

The new Defender is obviously an unknown, so very much dependent on theoretical modeling, but the finance guys are happy to give you guaranteed end-value on a 4 year lease of 27% depreciation on purchase price, which is on par with the Evoque.

The LC300 is a big leap for Toyota into unknown territory with brand new high output V6 engines and a lot of electronic management similar to current Land Rover products. The difference being that Land Rover have been using owners as Beta testers since around 2004 when the D3 was launched and they have it pretty much sorted the main mechanical / electronic interfaces (less little niggles with infotainment systems and the like). Toyota is entering a brave new world, miles away from their simplistic and rudimentary engines and gearboxes. One would be naïve to think they would get it 100% right first time round, so even if you're keen on the V6 engines, they are bound to have their own set teething issues.

Having to deal with Toyota on a regular bases regarding warranty claims on our mine specification fleet, arguing over a $120K plus vehicle (They're forecasting a 10%to 12% price rise from current equivalent LC200 models) with them if something goes wrong, is not something I would be keen on.

[AlexRS4]

On the original topic of this thread, does anyone know why the D300 Defender X is $30k more than a HSE?

According to this link, it has mostly cosmetic upgrades, plus TR2 and a few other useful bits: 2020 Land Rover Defender 110: Full specification breakdown | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/801258/2020-land-rover-defender-110-full-specification-breakdown/)

However, if I use the configurator to spec a HSE up with the stuff I actually care about - electronic locking diff, TR2, 700W Meridian Sound - it still comes in over $20k cheaper. It just doesn't have a black bit on the bonnet or say X on the badge, no exposed recovery eyelets, and it misses 'ambient lighting'. Any idea what I'm missing here, or are you really paying $20k for ambient lighting and a few cosmetics?

Here's my builds for the X: https://build.landrover/1C6AEB45
and HSE: https://build.landrover/FE937ECE

Note: The tow pack option on the HSE adds TR2, configurable terrain response and ATPC though it doesn't list that in detail on the build sheet.
Edit: I just checked again - the comfort and convenience pack selected (to add the centre console fridge) on the HSE also adds the ambient lighting... so it's really just cosmetics...

[veebs]

Beats me, I like the look of the HSE over the X. All that black makes it look a bit cheap in my opinion. Almost like a toy car.
Could be different in person?

Maybe you can take this comparison in to the dealer, and get a better quote on the X?

Or (last theory), is the X a grandfathered price, relevant at launch, but not updated as new models slotted in under it?

[AlexRS4]

I reckon I liked the HSE better too to be honest. Not often the car you want has all the bits and is cheaper.

The X also - for no reason I can decipher, doesn't come in white. What car doesn't come in white?!

[Tins]

What car doesn't come in white?!

A Model T Ford?

[zilch]

On the original topic of this thread, does anyone know why the D300 Defender X is $30k more than a HSE?

According to this link, it has mostly cosmetic upgrades, plus TR2 and a few other useful bits: 2020 Land Rover Defender 110: Full specification breakdown | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/801258/2020-land-rover-defender-110-full-specification-breakdown/)


when it came to decide on our new Defender i wrote down what was important, what was not, then went for the model nearest at the best price, hence i ended up with a
SE rather than HSE as i was not interested in a Pano roof.. the money i saved went towards the e-diff, tow pack (TR2/ Conf/APTC etc), side steps and other goodies..
start with your must haves vs nice to have trinkets list, should help you wittle it down

[AlexRS4]

when it came to decide on our new Defender i wrote down what was important, what was not, then went for the model nearest at the best price, hence i ended up with a
SE rather than HSE as i was not interested in a Pano roof.. the money i saved went towards the e-diff, tow pack (TR2/ Conf/APTC etc), side steps and other goodies..
start with your must haves vs nice to have trinkets list, should help you wittle it down

Yeah it's a good call. I think the HSE spec listed above is what I'll go for, if I do go ahead and order one. Add in a protective wrap, and a couple bits like the roof rack.

Still debating whether its worth selling the D4 for.

[Garfield]

I approached my build in a similar way. Many things that would be nice to have but I stuck to the essential/non-negotiable items/factory fitted options needed - leaving a few $ for other post delivery accessories such as better A/T tyres, front bash plate, rubber floor mats, maybe bullbar later on , PPF, lightbar/spotlights etc




when it came to decide on our new Defender i wrote down what was important, what was not, then went for the model nearest at the best price, hence i ended up with a
SE rather than HSE as i was not interested in a Pano roof.. the money i saved went towards the e-diff, tow pack (TR2/ Conf/APTC etc), side steps and other goodies..
start with your must haves vs nice to have trinkets list, should help you wittle it down

[dontwakemeup]

Yeah it's a good call. I think the HSE spec listed above is what I'll go for, if I do go ahead and order one. Add in a protective wrap, and a couple bits like the roof rack.

Still debating whether its worth selling the D4 for.

Yeah well bad news, the HSE doesn't exist on its own. Only HSE X-Dynamic now.

I had an HSE order in but had to cancel as my cost went up by about 8-9k for just cosmetic stuff.

[AlexRS4]

Yeah well bad news, the HSE doesn't exist on its own. Only HSE X-Dynamic now.

I had an HSE order in but had to cancel as my cost went up by about 8-9k for just cosmetic stuff.

That's pretty annoying! Are you still ordering or going off the Defender altogether?

[Tins]

Yeah well bad news, the HSE doesn't exist on its own. Only HSE X-Dynamic now.



That explains why I couldn't find it on the configurator. LR love to complicate things.

[AlexRS4]

Yeah well bad news, the HSE doesn't exist on its own. Only HSE X-Dynamic now.

I had an HSE order in but had to cancel as my cost went up by about 8-9k for just cosmetic stuff.

I just did an online build and mine changed by about $3500. No real benefits for the extra $, but on a $130k car that's a 3% or so increase, it's not a deal breaker for me.

[dontwakemeup]

I just did an online build and mine changed by about $3500. No real benefits for the extra $, but on a $130k car that's a 3% or so increase, it's not a deal breaker for me.

Where did you do the build? The australian configurator has not been updated with the new pricing.


That's pretty annoying! Are you still ordering or going off the Defender altogether?

In the intervening time period the dealer kindly let me look around the lot. After a lot of thinking, and driving different vehicles back to back.

I ended up going from an HSE to an S. From a D300 to a P300. The P300 isn't too shabby and honestly surprisingly pepp.y

I just thought about it and realised I don't need Windsor leather. Don't need a Pano sunroof. Don't need cooling seats. Don't need matrix LED headlights.

All compromises I can live with that won't make a big difference when I sell the car.

Saved about 14k. Got a jump seat instead. But more importantly getting a car now (an MY21 built in Jan), and not 6 months. The dealer has told me that australian orders are going to take a long while to arrive.