6sp versus 8sp transmission

[rapserv]

Looking to acquire a Disco 4 SDV6 and would like to know your thoughts on whether to go for a 6 speed or 8 speed transmission.

I have been looking to get a 2012 model which is generally a 6 speed tranny but I can't decide whether to go with a 2012 with some extras .. bullbar, dual batteries, break controller, etc with a 6 speed trans or spend a similar amount on a 2013 with the 8 speed auto and no options fitted.

Just how worthwhile is it going to the 8 speed box .. or isn't it?
I do a lot of towing with a van just over 3 tonne.

[Discodicky]

Looking to acquire a Disco 4 SDV6 and would like to know your thoughts on whether to go for a 6 speed or 8 speed transmission.

I have been looking to get a 2012 model which is generally a 6 speed tranny but I can't decide whether to go with a 2012 with some extras .. bullbar, dual batteries, break controller, etc with a 6 speed trans or spend a similar amount on a 2013 with the 8 speed auto and no options fitted.

Just how worthwhile is it going to the 8 speed box .. or isn't it?
I do a lot of towing with a van just over 3 tonne.

If you do a lot of towing there is no 'argument', go for the 8 speeder with paddle shift.
I regularly tow a 3.1 Tonne caravan 21ft and having the ability to easily change gears to maintain revs around 2,200-2,500 in order to keep exhaust gas temp down and TC lockup makes life easy.
Prior the D4 I had a 2009 TDV8 RRS which had a superb engine but 6 speed box. It towed the van beautifully but the 8 speed box is just sooo much better.

[RANDLOVER]

It seems that the 8spd is a lot stronger/longer lived than the 6spd, so pro'ly only worth getting a 6 if the tranny or at least the torque converter has been done.

[Eric SDV6SE]

8spd definitely, no question. You can then add your own accessories and make sure theyre done how you want it, not inheriting someone elses problems.

[rapserv]

If you do a lot of towing there is no 'argument', go for the 8 speeder with paddle shift.
I regularly tow a 3.1 Tonne caravan 21ft and having the ability to easily change gears to maintain revs around 2,200-2,500 in order to keep exhaust gas temp down and TC lockup makes life easy.
Prior the D4 I had a 2009 TDV8 RRS which had a superb engine but 6 speed box. It towed the van beautifully but the 8 speed box is just sooo much better.

So .. not a lot has changed then from what I do now in the Disco 2 TD5.
When towing the van, and the TD5 hasn't missed a beat in the last 10 years of constant outback towing, I am constantly changing/locking gears whilst one eye is glued to the EGT guage.
The 2 main reasons for changing up was to get that extra power when towing and to make the tow vehicle setup 'legal'.

[rapserv]

It seems that the 8spd is a lot stronger/longer lived than the 6spd, so pro'ly only worth getting a 6 if the tranny or at least the torque converter has been done.

if it's a stronger and longer lived gearbox then that alone is a reason to be going for the 2013 on.

[rapserv]

8spd definitely, no question. You can then add your own accessories and make sure theyre done how you want it, not inheriting someone elses problems.

Yes .. this is the way I've been leaning.
Still .. it would be nice to pick up one with a few basic addons like colour coordinated ARB bullbar and maybe aux battery.

[josh.huber]

Definately keep looking. D4s are not great at holding value.. Plenty come and go for sale.. This forum in the sales section has had some great buys over the years..

When I was in the market for my car I had 70k and that put me only up to MY11 if I talked them down. I went to Mackay land Rover to test drive and the salesmen said no way mate. I asked why not. He said the 6 speed box ( in my price range) was the best box in the world. Unfortunately the 8 is even better!! He told me.. Don't ever drive the 8 it'll ruin life with the 6, that was in 2013 and I still have not driven the 8 speed.

[gavinwibrow]

So .. not a lot has changed then from what I do now in the Disco 2 TD5.
When towing the van, and the TD5 hasn't missed a beat in the last 10 years of constant outback towing, I am constantly changing/locking gears whilst one eye is glued to the EGT guage.
The 2 main reasons for changing up was to get that extra power when towing and to make the tow vehicle setup 'legal'.


EGTs - For what its worth.
I had an EGT gauge in my D2a and watched it like a hawk when towing the 3.5T un-airodynamic brick - down to 2nd gear on some hills.

For the same reasons, put an EGT gauge in the D4 2.7L 6 speed, and have never got above 650 in worst case scenarios - at the same time coolant never got above 107 - and yes at those levels I did quickly slow down a little just in case, but have stopped worrying for the D4 - completely different animal to the overworked D2. And yes I have always been approaching paranoid to ensure the coolant system remains in excellent working order.

Now do I put an EGT gauge in for the new 3L 8 speed?

[rar110]

They’re both very good transmissions. But the 8 speed is better, including the TR.

You should drive both, as it comes down to which is better value to you.

[Tombie]

EGTs - For what its worth.
I had an EGT gauge in my D2a and watched it like a hawk when towing the 3.5T un-airodynamic brick - down to 2nd gear on some hills.

For the same reasons, put an EGT gauge in the D4 2.7L 6 speed, and have never got above 650 in worst case scenarios - at the same time coolant never got above 107 - and yes at those levels I did quickly slow down a little just in case, but have stopped worrying for the D4 - completely different animal to the overworked D2. And yes I have always been approaching paranoid to ensure the coolant system remains in excellent working order.

Now do I put an EGT gauge in for the new 3L 8 speed?

3.0l has an egt probe factory

[Tombie]

They’re both very good transmissions. But the 8 speed is better, including the TR.

You should drive both, as it comes down to which is better value to you.

TR is a simple update on earlier models to run the later response.

[gavinwibrow]

3.0l has an egt probe factory

Thanks Mike - I'd forgotten that - now to insert that bloody IID Tool into the new car - once I email Canada for the changeover code (free). Love their service!

[Tombie]

Thanks Mike - I'd forgotten that - now to insert that bloody IID Tool into the new car - once I email Canada for the changeover code (free). Love their service!

Get an adapter lead, 2 into 1 and use that.
Keeps the tool from getting caught up and leaves an OBD port in stock location for servicing.

Or better still, one of these…

UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center (http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/)

And leave the GAP for diagnostics

[rapserv]

Definately keep looking. D4s are not great at holding value.. Plenty come and go for sale.. This forum in the sales section has had some great buys over the years..

When I was in the market for my car I had 70k and that put me only up to MY11 if I talked them down. I went to Mackay land Rover to test drive and the salesmen said no way mate. I asked why not. He said the 6 speed box ( in my price range) was the best box in the world. Unfortunately the 8 is even better!! He told me.. Don't ever drive the 8 it'll ruin life with the 6, that was in 2013 and I still have not driven the 8 speed.

The fact that D4's, or most LR's for that matter, don't hold their value is a bad thing for those who bought them new ... but an absolute bargain for those picking them up second hand.
The vehicles are packed full of features and are pretty cost effective as long as you are able to do most of the maintenance or repairs on the vehicle yourself.
I nearly went across to the dark side and even started to look at Landcruisers!!
The Landcruiser is a very capable vehicle, just like LR, but after looking around at them it becomes very evident that they are highly over-rated and ridiculously over-priced.
I cannot believe the prices they are asking for LC's and particularly for those with very high kilometers.
There seems to be a complete disconnect with reality out there in the 4x4 market place.
The laws of 'supply & demand' just don't seem to apply when it comes to new 4x4 buyers and Toyotas.[smilebigeye]

[rapserv]

EGTs - For what its worth.
I had an EGT gauge in my D2a and watched it like a hawk when towing the 3.5T un-airodynamic brick - down to 2nd gear on some hills.

For the same reasons, put an EGT gauge in the D4 2.7L 6 speed, and have never got above 650 in worst case scenarios - at the same time coolant never got above 107 - and yes at those levels I did quickly slow down a little just in case, but have stopped worrying for the D4 - completely different animal to the overworked D2. And yes I have always been approaching paranoid to ensure the coolant system remains in excellent working order.

Now do I put an EGT gauge in for the new 3L 8 speed?

Yes .. I'm much the same.
I've got EGT, Transmission and Head temp gauges plus a boost pressure guage in the D2 and will find it difficult to go to a D4 3.0L without .. so I'll probably just put the EGT and Transmissions gauges back in the new one .. just for my own sanity.

[rapserv]

They’re both very good transmissions. But the 8 speed is better, including the TR.

You should drive both, as it comes down to which is better value to you.

I'm tending to lean towards the 8 speed as, at the end of the day, my main concern for going to a 3.0L D4 is it's towing ability. (legally)
If it wasn't for the fact that the Disco 2 TD5 can't legally tow the 3T van I probably wouldn't even change over ... I've been very happy with the TD5 and I know it inside out .. which means a lot when you're operating remotely.

[rapserv]

3.0l has an egt probe factory

Interesting .. I wasn't aware of that.

[rapserv]

Get an adapter lead, 2 into 1 and use that.
Keeps the tool from getting caught up and leaves an OBD port in stock location for servicing.

Or better still, one of these…

UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center (http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/)

And leave the GAP for diagnostics

Will this tool display EGT Mike?
I looked through their gauges list I didn't see it.

[Discodicky]

Yes .. I'm much the same.
I've got EGT, Transmission and Head temp gauges plus a boost pressure guage in the D2 and will find it difficult to go to a D4 3.0L without .. so I'll probably just put the EGT and Transmissions gauges back in the new one .. just for my own sanity.

I use a Scanguage 11 (2) which unfortunately doesn't give me EGT but I have auto oil, and engine coolant temps amongst other things (voltage, boost etc). Would like to see EGT if a could get it, but am content knowing if I keep revs up around 2500, throttle not to the floor at low revs etc then the EGT's will be fine.

What IS interesting is the speed at which the oil temps fluctuate. eg, here in Tassy two weeks ago i was on the mountainous West coast with the van and on many occasions down into 3rd and sometimes 2nd gear on the climbs. As soon as I started going down the the other side of the hills the temps quickly with 2 or 3 minutes dropped from (eg) around 105 engine coolant back to high 80's/early 90's, and trans from around 107 back to early/middle 90's Celcius. Ambient temp was middle twenties.

I find the paddle shift auto is a real boon in this situation.

[josh.huber]

The fact that D4's, or most LR's for that matter, don't hold their value is a bad thing for those who bought them new ... but an absolute bargain for those picking them up second hand.
The vehicles are packed full of features and are pretty cost effective as long as you are able to do most of the maintenance or repairs on the vehicle yourself.
I nearly went across to the dark side and even started to look at Landcruisers!!
The Landcruiser is a very capable vehicle, just like LR, but after looking around at them it becomes very evident that they are highly over-rated and ridiculously over-priced.
I cannot believe the prices they are asking for LC's and particularly for those with very high kilometers.
There seems to be a complete disconnect with reality out there in the 4x4 market place.
The laws of 'supply & demand' just don't seem to apply when it comes to new 4x4 buyers and Toyotas.[smilebigeye]

Great cars, I didn't buy new.. But bought early.. So I'm in the boat of rapid decline.. But not an issue if I never sell it.

Technology scares people. Land Rover brag about it.. Toyota hides it.

I do my maintenance and it's been a great buy. I should group more repairs into the same time. I always feel like I'm working or planning on it lately.

[rar110]

Will this tool display EGT Mike?
I looked through their gauges list I didn't see it.

The IID tool provides a lot of live values, incl EGT, trans temp, manifold pressure. It’s pretty amazing.

[Tombie]

Great cars, I didn't buy new.. But bought early.. So I'm in the boat of rapid decline.. But not an issue if I never sell it.

Technology scares people. Land Rover brag about it.. Toyota hides it.

I do my maintenance and it's been a great buy. I should group more repairs into the same time. I always feel like I'm working or planning on it lately.

That’s why mines still off the road. No mechanical issues, just grouping the upgrade work into one job lot.

3 x UK deliveries will have it sorted a few days after their arrival.

[gavinwibrow]

Yes .. I'm much the same.
I've got EGT, Transmission and Head temp gauges plus a boost pressure guage in the D2 and will find it difficult to go to a D4 3.0L without .. so I'll probably just put the EGT and Transmissions gauges back in the new one .. just for my own sanity.


Or buy a diagnostic tool like Gap or Ultra that has instrument mode where you select the parameters you want, such as EGT, coolant and ATF.

[rapserv]

The IID tool provides a lot of live values, incl EGT, trans temp, manifold pressure. It’s pretty amazing.

I do have the GAP IID Tool but I don't want it to be plugged in all the time. GAP also advise NOT to have it connected permanently.
I agree with Mikes view that the IID Tool should be kept for when it's needed.

[rapserv]

Or buy a diagnostic tool like Gap or Ultra that has instrument mode where you select the parameters you want, such as EGT, coolant and ATF.

When you say 'Ultra' .. I'm assuming that you are talking about the 'UltraGauge'.
Looking through their website, there is no mention of EGT. Also no mention of EGT monitoring in the EM Plus or MX models either.
So it looks like it might be a matter of either accessing the vehicles OBD2 signal and displaying that on a separate gauge or installing a separate probe/gauge.

[rar110]

I do have the GAP IID Tool but I don't want it to be plugged in all the time. GAP also advise NOT to have it connected permanently.
I agree with Mikes view that the IID Tool should be kept for when it's needed.

I agree, not practical as permanent gauge. Only if you think there is a need at that time.

[letherm]

I do have the GAP IID Tool but I don't want it to be plugged in all the time. GAP also advise NOT to have it connected permanently.
I agree with Mikes view that the IID Tool should be kept for when it's needed.

I have mine plugged in all the time. I put a flat ribbon cable from the connector up behind the steering wheel cover and it simply just sits there. I use it frequently to lower the car to its bump stops which is much lower than access height and helpful for my disabled wife to get into the car. I understand that it's not needed generally by most people. The caveat from GAP about not leaving it plugged in is to protect the car's battery. If you don't disconnect it via the blue tooth app (not physically although that would obviously work)it will keeping polling, looking for your phone or tablet etc which means it is effectively switched on all the time. Over time this will drain your battery. Unfortunately I cannot remember the name of the member who found this out from GAP but that is the reason they say not to leave it connected rather than a problem with it being plugged in per se. Mine has been connected full time for over 5 years with no issues at all. If I forget to disconnect it via the app before I get out I go back to the car and do it.

Martin

[BradC]

I have mine plugged in all the time. I put a flat ribbon cable from the connector up behind the steering wheel cover and it simply just sits there.

I leave mine in all the time also, just plugged straight into the socket. Initially I was worried I'd belt it, but it's never been an issue for me or anyone else who's driven the car.

[Tombie]

I leave mine in all the time also, just plugged straight into the socket. Initially I was worried I'd belt it, but it's never been an issue for me or anyone else who's driven the car.

You must have smaller feet… [emoji41]

[letherm]

I leave mine in all the time also, just plugged straight into the socket. Initially I was worried I'd belt it, but it's never been an issue for me or anyone else who's driven the car.

Did try that but hit it straight away and figured that's probably not a good thing. Size 12 Australian boots means that's not an option for me. I'm on call to help stamp out bush fires. [bigrolf]

Martin

[scarry]

When you say 'Ultra' .. I'm assuming that you are talking about the 'UltraGauge'.
Looking through their website, there is no mention of EGT. Also no mention of EGT monitoring in the EM Plus or MX models either.
So it looks like it might be a matter of either accessing the vehicles OBD2 signal and displaying that on a separate gauge or installing a separate probe/gauge.

They can display EGT on LC200,so one would think they could on D4,as long as its not the 2.7L.

There is a local crowd that are the dealers here, might be worth a phone call, although their name seems to have fallen from my mind[bigsad]

Autophix and Scan tool 2 are others that may work as they seem to work well on garden variety vehicles.

[outasight]

Had both a 6sp D4 SE and then an 8sp D4 SE towing the same stuff - get the 8sp full stop.
A much smoother drive experience at any time as well as it's towing benefits.
Also what I haven't seen mentioned is the approx. 1.0L/100km better off you'll be at the bowsers most weeks.

My 2c worth.

[441]

When it's time to have the 6 speed rebuilt/serviced is it possible to swap it for an 8 speed?

[haydent]

I nearly went across to the dark side and even started to look at Landcruisers!!

I cannot believe the prices they are asking for LC's and particularly for those with very high kilometers.
There seems to be a complete disconnect with reality out there in the 4x4 market place.


I started looking into them too, the big plus and saving grace of them is the availability or accessories and gvm upgrades, as its shocking to see how easily the go over gvm when towing, just with stock car, full tank of fuel and 2 passengers.

Ive heard mobile caravan weigher's wont even book you if you dont have a gvm upgrade as they know you'll be over for sure, so dont want to waste your time.

As a result you have to have a car with a 2inch lift and stiff suspension just to tow 3T