Hydrogen battery , Australian too

[goingbush]

Impressive specs , but expensive . What a great idea, I hope they do well with it.

40kwh in a package under 200kg ,
The 28kwh Lithium battery pack in my Landy weighs in a 250kg

LAVO Hydrogen Battery - See how the LAVO™ System works (https://lavo.com.au/lavo-hydrogen-battery/?fbclid=IwAR1fydZ9QLyuMG-3gHGuPUbIaXJY7MPDElC51t-qdGk_5DRRMFRsecEvjUE)

[Homestar]

That’s pretty neat, hope the price could be made to be more competitive over time though.

[AK83]

interesting for sure!

Had a quick peek at the specs, and its said maximum elevation 2000m.
Does that mean it doesn't work at higher altitudes?(I assume its right)

If so, I wonder what/why?
Also, not quite for very cold climates(-10°C minimum, 5°C recommended). For most of Aussie, no real worry tho.

Initial price at $35K .. then v2 and later down to $30K. So comparable to Li-Ion types when all factors are added up.
Life expectancy is much longer than Lithium mains batteries, so in a sense .. cheaper when compared on a long term basis.

I wonder what usable 40Kwh of Li-Ion type installations cost by way of comparison .. something in the range of $40K or so, IIRC.
We were looking into it for brother to see if it was worth the expense .. roughly $10K for 10-ish Kwh or something.

I'm curious as to what safety precautions are if a fire breaks out near the unit too.

[Homestar]

I'm curious as to what safety precautions are if a fire breaks out near the unit too.

Run... [emoji6]

In reality probably similar risk to keeping any gas around the house - I keep Acetylene and Oxygen in the garage and 3 LPG bottles in various locations around the place too. It wouldn’t bother me having this next to my house.

[BradC]

This has been posted previously. One thing that is conspicuously absent is any mention of storage efficiency.

Half of the electrolysed product is released to atmosphere.
The hydrogen needs to be compressed to 30 Bar to store it.
Incoming water needs to be processed to remove impurities.
Still has/requires internal Li-Ion batteries to manage load smoothing.


A quick google on the technology looking for efficiency values turned up this : LAVO's Hydrogen Battery: Incredible Engineering. Tough Sell. (https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/lavo-hydrogen-battery-review/)

So ~50% efficiency when new. Nice if you have a massive amount or surplus energy to store, but at 50% efficiency there's a massive amount of heat being generated.

Nice tech, but needs a bit more work.

[RANDLOVER]

Run... [emoji6]

In reality probably similar risk to keeping any gas around the house - I keep Acetylene and Oxygen in the garage and 3 LPG bottles in various locations around the place too. It wouldn’t bother me having this next to my house.

Depends how big the battery/bottle is I suppose.

Brisbane City Council swaps 'exploding' gas-powered buses for diesel following gas cylinder explosions - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-03/brisbane-city-council-swaps-exploding-gas-buses-for-diesel/12840670)

Key points:

Explosions involving cylinders on the Brisbane's gas-powered buses have forced the council to move its fleet to diesel
Gas buses have been operating with half-filled tanks since the explosions as a safety precaution
Brisbane City Council said diesel buses were now cleaner and more efficient that previously

[Dorian]

Run... [emoji6]

In reality probably similar risk to keeping any gas around the house - I keep Acetylene and Oxygen in the garage and 3 LPG bottles in various locations around the place too. It wouldn’t bother me having this next to my house.

The Hydrogen is stored in "cylinders that store hydrogen in metal hydride", so it's not just an empty space but more like a metal sponge where the hydrogen attaches itself to the metallic surface. Other wise you would need either a lot more space or a lot more pressure. As I understand it this stuff can't release the hydrogen instantly, so you shouldn't get a detonation cloud, more like a fast burn.

Hydrogen is lighter than air so at least it won't stay around to burn the house down.

Cheers Glen

[JDNSW]

I'm not sure what the application is - its way lower efficiency than batteries, comparable costs, comparable weight, no record of real life results or longevity in real life (I suspect that a key factor is the quality of your water supply in terms of trace elements, which are likely to get past the water purifier and poison the hydride formation process over time. Installation will require a plumber as well as an electrician, and they claim it requires annual maintenance.

[BradC]

I'm not sure what the application is

<cynic>To accumulate venture capital and government subsidy funding.</cynic>

Great research project, but the electrolytic production of hydrogen and the fuel cell production of electricity are both bounded by hard efficiency values which limit the potential even if they refine the process until it hits the theoretical maximums.

[JDNSW]

<cynic>To accumulate venture capital and government subsidy funding.</cynic>

Great research project, but the electrolytic production of hydrogen and the fuel cell production of electricity are both bounded by hard efficiency values which limit the potential even if they refine the process until it hits the theoretical maximums.

Down the line, it potentially could point to hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles, using locally produced hydrogen, but these would depend on very cheap solar power and cheap and light fuel cells and storage to make up for the inefficiency (which is mainly in the fuel cells and the production of hydrogen). The hydride storage is presumably fairly efficient, but needs to be cheap and light to make up for the inefficiency of the fuel cell.

[NavyDiver]

Just looking at Metal Hydrides. You can if you had "VERY" deep pockets buy them now.
Metal Hydrides (https://www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-storage/metal-hydrides)


specs on one
"

Hydrogen Pressure when Charging or Discharging
Alloy A, Alloy H, Alloy L, and Alloy M hydrides require the hydrogen charging pressure of 400 psig, 400 psig, 100 psig, and 200 psig, respectively. The discharging pressure during the discharge cycle would be very similar to the respective charging pressure of the selected hydride (assuming that stored hydrogen gas is not vented instantaneously). The SOLID-H™ container will become hot to the touch as it absorbs hydrogen (during charging stage). Charging is complete when it has cooled to room temperature.



Discharge Rate
The discharge rate depends on many variables. We can help you select a SOLID-H™ metal hydride alloy and hydrogen container(s) that will meet your hydrogen flow requirements. In general, you should not expect to empty the entire hydrogen capacity in a matter of minutes. Hours are required to withdraw 90% or more of the hydrogen capacity from a standard** metal hydride container. The largest SOLID-H™ containers require days to discharge completely. **It is possible to discharge a metal hydride in a matter of seconds. This requires extraordinary heat transfer enhancement inside and outside of the container. We can provide heat transfer enhancement to improve the charging and discharging rates of our SOLID-H™ containers.



"

Bold two aspects which are expected yet not often highlighted. Vent a gas cylinder or gas cartridge and we have all seen it.

LAVO Triva- Named after "Antoine Lavoisier the scientist who named Hydrogen H1." Other trivia is Mr Lavoisier got the guillotine during the French revolution.

[Vern]

Impressive specs , but expensive . What a great idea, I hope they do well with it.

40kwh in a package under 200kg ,
The 28kwh Lithium battery pack in my Landy weighs in a 250kg

LAVO Hydrogen Battery - See how the LAVO[emoji769] System works (https://lavo.com.au/lavo-hydrogen-battery/?fbclid=IwAR1fydZ9QLyuMG-3gHGuPUbIaXJY7MPDElC51t-qdGk_5DRRMFRsecEvjUE)Didn't read the link, but we have been trying to by a couple of these for a while now, they spruced on about it, well someone did, so my boss went down there with his cheque book, and got a 'oh sorry, its not available yet'. [emoji846]

[NavyDiver]

Bugs Bugs bugs. Not suggesting this is anything other than COOL in several ways. The oddy of ICE at the south pole is it is the driest places on earth "Antarctica is the driest continent Antarctica is the driest continent; it is almost entirely desert. Very little snow or rain falls on the continent, but because it is so cold, the small amount of precipitation that does fall does not melt."


Antarctic bacteria live on air and make their own water using hydrogen as fuel

Link (https://theconversation.com/antarctic-bacteria-live-on-air-and-make-their-own-water-using-hydrogen-as-fuel-171808)

[Vern]

And i forgot, that one of the Lavo hydrogen batteries we are trying to buy for a customer, he actually has shares in the LAVO company [emoji1][emoji1]

[NavyDiver]

And i forgot, that one of the Lavo hydrogen batteries we are trying to buy for a customer, he actually has shares in the LAVO company [emoji1][emoji1]

I did that trick with my Redflow batteries. Got me the first ones in Victoria I think.

Watching Lavo with interest. They are planning 'an almost small' $15mill development in QLD build starting 2022. Stock market float, Angel investors, Government money or S.P.A.C. target? (USA) to fund that is a issue I am watching closely.


Hyped hydrogen storage company opts to manufacture fuel cells near Brisbane – pv magazine Australia (https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2021/11/24/hyped-hydrogen-storage-company-opts-to-manufacture-fuel-cells-near-brisbane/)


The hydride storage is it self very interesting.

[NavyDiver]

Impressive specs , but expensive . What a great idea, I hope they do well with it.

40kwh in a package under 200kg ,
The 28kwh Lithium battery pack in my Landy weighs in a 250kg

LAVO Hydrogen Battery - See how the LAVO™ System works (https://lavo.com.au/lavo-hydrogen-battery/?fbclid=IwAR1fydZ9QLyuMG-3gHGuPUbIaXJY7MPDElC51t-qdGk_5DRRMFRsecEvjUE)

There may be another[biggrin]

porous silicon material – called Si+ seem to me to be a winner in the storage space. LAVO storage medium is nifty yet possibly not as scalable for clear reasons.


Watching this one very closely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfKG0UsxAKk


If 'promised' hydrogen generators price is suitable I would love to consider one for the boat/work idea I have[biggrin] LAVO price is a bit of a blocker I thought.