Holden 202 into series 3s

[Landi Camper]

Hi.

In SA we had the Series 3S (R6) that had the rover OHC 2.6 straight 6 motor in. It was coupled to the Santana gearbox. I have a santana gearbox and would like to fit a holden 202 motor i baught stripped from. An elcamino. But as mi luck no one here has adaptor on hand. That is all i need to get it done. Any one have an idea of where i could look or even get technical drawings to get one made maybe?

[Homestar]

Interesting question, not sure if there’s a commercial adaptor available and if you can accurately measure the 2 or get drawings for both, then shouldn’t be too hard to make one or get one made.

Would be a reasonable combo I think although I’m one of those few that actually like the 2.6, but I get why most don’t.

[Landi Camper]

Ja mi biggest issue is getting a drawing for the 202. Others are available. And the 2.6 here spares availability is bad for it.

[akelly]

Castlemain Rod Shop still carries the conversion bellhousings:

LAND ROVER - Holden 149-202 - BELLHOUSINGS & ADAPTORS (https://www.rodshop.com.au/bellhousings/ford-t5/land-rover.html?cat=673)

Series One Shop has a used one:

Holden motor and adapter kit - used | hmfk (http://seriesoneshop.com/contents/en-us/p39.html)


I would definitely recommend against the conversion though, unless it's your only option. Despite what armchair experts will tell you they really aren't fantastic. Fuel economy is terrible and parts for a holden red motor are no easier/cheaper than a land rover engine now. The clutch is an issue, especially if you don't have a custom flywheel that can take the land rover clutch - if you do the conversion getting one with a custom flywheel is definitely the best option (not a holden flywheel drilled to take the land rover clutch).

Cheers,

Adam

[ian4002000]

Hi.

In SA we had the Series 3S (R6) that had the rover OHC 2.6 straight 6 motor in. It was coupled to the Santana gearbox. I have a santana gearbox and would like to fit a holden 202 motor i baught stripped from. An elcamino. But as mi luck no one here has adaptor on hand. That is all i need to get it done. Any one have an idea of where i could look or even get technical drawings to get one made maybe?


You mentioned an ElCamino , i dont think these would have a Holden 6 cylinder in them.I suspect you may have some type of Chevrolet 6.

Can you post photos of the engine you have ?

we might be able to identify it

Ian
Bittern

[Landi Camper]

There was a few years whete holdens where used in the elcaminos.

[Landi Camper]

How do i add pictures

[Homestar]

Castlemain Rod Shop still carries the conversion bellhousings:

LAND ROVER - Holden 149-202 - BELLHOUSINGS & ADAPTORS (https://www.rodshop.com.au/bellhousings/ford-t5/land-rover.html?cat=673)

Series One Shop has a used one:

Holden motor and adapter kit - used | hmfk (http://seriesoneshop.com/contents/en-us/p39.html)


I would definitely recommend against the conversion though, unless it's your only option. Despite what armchair experts will tell you they really aren't fantastic. Fuel economy is terrible and parts for a holden red motor are no easier/cheaper than a land rover engine now. The clutch is an issue, especially if you don't have a custom flywheel that can take the land rover clutch - if you do the conversion getting one with a custom flywheel is definitely the best option (not a holden flywheel drilled to take the land rover clutch).

Cheers,

Adam

Having owned and still own holden red motors and rebuilt plenty as well - both in Holdens and Land Rovers - I’m certainly not an armchair warrior and for my 2 cents they aren’t bad for their age and still plentiful over here - you can still barely give them
away and I could find at least 2 or 3 within a week I could get for a slab of beer or less.

Super easy to get parts for compared to the 2.6 Land Rover - I know this too having spent over 2 years finding all the parts to rebuild one - Parts for these are getting rare to unobtainable.

Also super easy to work on and very forgiving to people that don’t work on engines much and a basic toolkit is all you need to do anything on them.

Ideal conversion? - No, you’re right on the fuel usage etc but the 2.6’s drink even more. Are their better engines for this conversion - yep - I’d go a 200Tdi if you can find a decent one - but that’s getting to be hard work too

It’s not a bad conversion all things considered and plenty of knowledge about it too as there are 100’s of series Landys running red motors. [emoji4]

[mick88]

Landi Camper,
the engine you are referring to in the R6 Series 3 is not the same motor that we had/have here, so i think there is a bit of confusion with this thread.
The R6 S3 was exclusive to SA, and as you say it was the 2.6 "overhead cam" engine, which is actually a Leyland Australia engine, produced for the P76, and it was also used in the Morris Marina (in Australia and SA).

We only had the (old) Rover 2.6 straight six engine available here in the S3 Land Rovers, as well as the 2.25 four cylinder.

I am not familiar with the bell housing bolt pattern of Santana bell housing/gearbox but if you are lucky enough for it to be the same or close to a standard series bolt pattern you might be able to use a Holden engine adapter plate from here in Australia.
As for the 202 engine bolt pattern i reckon you would be in luck with it being the same bolt pattern as any Holden six, as the HQ Holden in SA was badged as a Chev El Camino, Kommando, and an El Toro.

If you post me a cardboard or paper template of the Santana Bell Housing pattern i will compare it to the adapter plates i have here.
Then if it looks the same or very close we could get an adapter sent over to you.
I will PM you my postal address etc.

Good luck.

Cheers, Mick.

[Landi Camper]

That would be awesome. I did how ever manage to find a th350 chevy auto box that is connected to a transfer case this weekend for a steal. So decided that i can use that setup rather than the santana that would be a better adaption and maybe easier to find maybe.

[Tins]

The R6 S3 was exclusive to SA, and as you say it was the 2.6 "overhead cam" engine, which is actually a Leyland Australia engine, produced for the P76, and it was also used in the Morris Marina (in Australia and SA).

That the same lump used in the Kimberley?

[Landi Camper]

O not sure at all

[mick88]

That the same lump used in the Kimberley?

Yes it was, known as an E Series engine, it was available in a four cylinder or a six cylinder variant, with two engine capacities in each.
The four cylinders were 1.5 and 1.9 litre, and in the six it came in a 2.2 and a 2.6 litre.
The smaller six (2.2 litre) was the one used in the Kimberly.
The larger 2.6 litre was used in the P76 and the Morris Marina, plus the South African export Marina's.

Cheers, Mick.

[Tins]

Yes it was, known as an E Series engine, it was available in a four cylinder or a six cylinder variant, and there were two sizes in each.
The four cylinders were 1.5 and 1.9 litre, and in the six it came in a 2.2 litre and a 2.6 litre.
The smaller six (2.2 litre) was used the one used in the Kimberly.
The larger 2.6 litre was used in the P76 and the Morris Marina, plus the South African export Marina's.

Cheers, Mick.

Drove a Kimberley for a couple of months. Kinda liked it. Smoother, more powerful Land Crab.
Am I right in saying the Kimberley X6 was a twin carb, twin headlight version of the Tasman?

[JDNSW]

Drove a Kimberley for a couple of months. Kinda liked it. Smoother, more powerful Land Crab.
Am I right in saying the Kimberley X6 was a twin carb, twin headlight version of the Tasman?

Pretty much - fancier trim as well.

[1950landy]

Pretty much - fancier trim as well.
They were not a patch on the Austin 1800. That motor had a list as long as your arm of problems, ( oil filter & relief valve problems, overheating, head gaskets , water pump failure , timing chain & guides, wear on the valve adjusting shims & constantly braking engine mounts ,to name a few ) & that was while they were still under warranty. The cars them selves had other problems that the A1800 did not have due to extra weight of the motor & cost cutting .
On the P76 they moved the fuel pump to the top of the motor in the cam cover , the pump was prone to porous diaphragms causing the motor to fill up with petrol which allowed you to start the motor cold with out the choke & run rich when hot as the fuel vapours from the sump were sucked into the manifold , The short pushrod between the cam & pump leaver wore badly to the point the pump would no longer work.
This was the start of the Leyland influence :thumbsdown:

[JDNSW]

.......
This was the start of the Leyland influence :thumbsdown:

Not entirely. This engine was a Leyland Australia initiative trying to shape the 1800 into something that was closer to what the Australian market wanted. It was hurriedly developed with inadequate support from head office. Later versions of the engine had most of the issues fixed. The other problems you refer to resulted of course from the increased weight of the engine as you say, and the shortage of funding from head office. They may have already started to spend money on the P76 by this time, and the Tasman/Kimberly would then have been seen as a stopgap and getting funding accordingly.

[1950landy]

Not entirely. This engine was a Leyland Australia initiative trying to shape the 1800 into something that was closer to what the Australian market wanted. It was hurriedly developed with inadequate support from head office. Later versions of the engine had most of the issues fixed. The other problems you refer to resulted of course from the increased weight of the engine as you say, and the shortage of funding from head office. They may have already started to spend money on the P76 by this time, and the Tasman/Kimberly would then have been seen as a stopgap and getting funding accordingly.

Back when I worked as a motor mechanic I worked for BMC ,Leyland , JRA dealers . I also worked as service manager through Leyland & JRA, some of the problems were fixed by the P76 but not the major ones like overheating & head gaskets . Some of the changes caused other problems like the fuel pump push rod & the fact the cam cover could flex were the pump was mounted causing the pump to not do a full stroke. The Austin 1800 was a great car , it was a toss up weather the A1800 or the Morris 1100 was the better vehicle . The six cylinder was introduced because the Australian public wanted a six or V8 . Owners of A1800's traded up to the Austin Tasman / Kimberly but most were disappointed with the poor finish inside & out & reliability. The V8 auto P76 was a great car , apart from poor quality trim & switch failure the major problem with they had was water & dust leaks into the cabin. We would spend hours & hours trying to fix the water leaks & it wasn't until Leyland announced they were closing they supplied us with new sill tread plates with a 20mm sq raised middle section to stop the water that came out the door drain holes from running in side due to the fact the original plates sloped towards the in side.

[Tins]

The Austin 1800 was a great car , it was a toss up weather the A1800 or the Morris 1100 was the better vehicle .

The Mini would have to figure in that debate. Are you familiar with Journeys with Gelignite Jack? If you are, you'll know what I mean. If you aren't get a copy and read it. Those BMC cars should be legendary here, but few know anything about them.

[1950landy]

The Mini would have to figure in that debate. Are you familiar with Journeys with Gelignite Jack? If you are, you'll know what I mean. If you aren't get a copy and read it. Those BMC cars should be legendary here, but few know anything about them.

The Mini was a great car as well . I have owned two Mini's , around six M1100's but never an A1800 but wish I had. The Mini is a great young person car , the M1100 was a grate car for the wife & kids , were the A1800 was the ideal family car with ample interior room , comfortable seats large boot & adequate power from the engine , to add to that the ride & handling was superb . They all excelled in these rolls. The Mini was the most trouble prone but I think that was due to the age of the owners not the cars . We had few warranty clams for M1100's & A1800's compared to Mini's until Leyland take over when the quality control dropped & cheaper components were sauced to cut costs.
I would own all three of these vehicles today if I had the room to house them.[smilebigeye]

[mick88]

Drove a Kimberley for a couple of months. Kinda liked it. Smoother, more powerful Land Crab.
Am I right in saying the Kimberley X6 was a twin carb, twin headlight version of the Tasman?


Speaking of the X6, here is an old local newspaper from 1971

Cheers, Mick.

[PhilipA]

A friend has just restored a Marina coupe 2.6 with 3speed box. He had K Mac make up a Bathurst front anti roll bar .

Engine was rebuilt maybe 100 km ago using a copper head gasket as he was wary of the lack of distance between cylinders. Loaned it to his son last week who made about 50 km when the head gasket failed.
Head gaskets are a known problem but a stock type would probably have been better. One peculiarity of the motor is that the exhaust manifold drilling’s go into the head bolt drilling’s so you have to be careful to use thick washers or you never get the head bolt tension correct.
I had an Austin 1800 once and was a good car and I drove a fully loaded Tasman up the Goulburn valley with a Datsun 1600 trying to pass but couldn’t.
Regards PhilipA

[rick130]

You mentioned an ElCamino , i dont think these would have a Holden 6 cylinder in them.I suspect you may have some type of Chevrolet 6.

Can you post photos of the engine you have ?

we might be able to identify it

Ian
BitternHoldens were re-badged as Chev's in SA. (The other SA, South Africa [emoji6])

[1950landy]

A friend has just restored a Marina coupe 2.6 with 3speed box. He had K Mac make up a Bathurst front anti roll bar .

Engine was rebuilt maybe 100 km ago using a copper head gasket as he was wary of the lack of distance between cylinders. Loaned it to his son last week who made about 50 km when the head gasket failed.
Head gaskets are a known problem but a stock type would probably have been better. One peculiarity of the motor is that the exhaust manifold drilling’s go into the head bolt drilling’s so you have to be careful to use thick washers or you never get the head bolt tension correct.
I had an Austin 1800 once and was a good car and I drove a fully loaded Tasman up the Goulburn valley with a Datsun 1600 trying to pass but couldn’t.
Regards PhilipA
169383 Technical Bulletin from 1972 about head bolts. Those 6cyl Marina's went like a cut cat but handled like a Billie cart , They would been better off using McPherson front suspension instead of the Morris Minor torsion bar , They were much better with the telescopic shock absorber kits fitted & modified top ball joint bush kit. The early steering rack clamp's didn't help either allowing the rack to move sideways in the clamp's . Here is a couple of more Tec Bulletin's
169384169385169386

[Tins]

The Mini was a great car as well . I have owned two Mini's , around six M1100's but never an A1800 but wish I had. The Mini is a great young person car , the M1100 was a grate car for the wife & kids , were the A1800 was the ideal family car with ample interior room , comfortable seats large boot & adequate power from the engine , to add to that the ride & handling was superb . They all excelled in these rolls. The Mini was the most trouble prone but I think that was due to the age of the owners not the cars . We had few warranty clams for M1100's & A1800's compared to Mini's until Leyland take over when the quality control dropped & cheaper components were sauced to cut costs.
I would own all three of these vehicles today if I had the room to house them.[smilebigeye]

I had an 1800 ute pass through my hands around 40 years ago. I'd LOVE to still have that. Ditto the Cooper S, which was a hoot just going to the shops.

[JDNSW]

My sister and her husband had an 1800 ute. Found several serious issue with it - rear suspension arm twisted - not up to the load on rough roads, and inadequate ground clearance resulting in a holed sump - same problem encountered with their Morris Minor "school car" and their daughter's Morris 1500.

[101RRS]

it was a toss up weather the A1800 or the Morris 1100 was the better vehicle .

I can assure you the 1100 was not a great car - I had the 1300 version and it was the worst car I have ever owned - reliability was zero.

[1950landy]

I can assure you the 1100 was not a great car - I had the 1300 version and it was the worst car I have ever owned - reliability was zero.
When you say 1300 are you referring to the M1100S which had a 1275cc motor which was a detuned Cooper S motor.
The M1100 was a great car but the M1300 automatic was better than it's sister the M1500 manual . now they were a heap of rubbish , overheating , blown head gaskets , timing chain & guide failure , water pump failure , cheap trim & switches, Front brake callipers, , gear box synchro 's braking & synchro surface on the gears falling off & gear change cables getting damaged from hitting things & leaking oil. When we did a gearbox there was a good chance we would have to pull it out after the test drive because the synchro rings would brake on the test drive . The Mini's also had synchro problems during this period , they had changed there supplier to cut costs which did not work due to the extra cost of repairing the boxes under warranty . The dealership also sold Daihatsu even with the F10 4WD's having transfer case bearing problems , warranty clam's for them were les than one per month were with Leyland it would have been 100 or more.

[mick88]

A car salesman who's family had owned several dealerships, including a British Leyland one, once told me that even when taking customers for test drives in P76's, they were plagued with issues. He said you would be driving along and see a windscreen wiper just fly off over the roof, then on arriving back at the dealership, and a piece of body trim would be gone. He always maintained they had the makings of a good car, but just needed about another $200 spent on them in the production stage, to ensure better quality control.

Cheers, Mick.

[1950landy]

A wiper blade flying off would be fault of the dealership, they were fitted on the predelivery but they did have windscreen trims that would fly off & windscreens that came unglued & fell out , when replacing them we used Ford windscreen kits. I had on a couple of occasions were the bonnet popped open & the safety latch had stuck open , when it happens your reaction is to hit the brake , the bonnet goes up & there is an 8ft wall in front of you & can't see were you are going. Not a good experience .
The V8's could have been a good car , I almost bought one but decided to buy a HQ Kingswood instead which was an excellent car , only main fault was the rear main they could not stop leaking , but that has been a fault on all 6cyl Holden motor from day one.

[350RRC]

Castlemain Rod Shop still carries the conversion bellhousings:

LAND ROVER - Holden 149-202 - BELLHOUSINGS & ADAPTORS (https://www.rodshop.com.au/bellhousings/ford-t5/land-rover.html?cat=673)

Cheers,

Adam

I see they still do an adaptor ring for a 350 to LT95. Same as what's in my POS.

For $740 it looks like a great deal because it comes with a geared starter by the looks of the pic, [biggrin]

DL

[Tins]

The V8's could have been a good car
Job I was in, just out of the Army, gave me cars to drive. The Kimberley was one. P76 V8 Executive was another. If the switches had worked, the trims had not fallen off, and the styling had been better executed it would have been fantastic. It was light years better to drive than an HQ, or XA. Sure, the V8s that GM or Ford had a lot more development available, but neither marque cared all that much anymore. If BL had been anything other than BL they could have been something here. But they didn't, and they weren't. Pity. GM, Ford and Chrysler needed a kick in the arse. BL failed to deliver. They got more than one from Toyota and Nissan and they never recovered.


that has been a fault on all 6cyl Holden motore from day one.

Really?? Didn't notice... [bigwhistle] "Red" motors were worse than "Grey".

[sharmy]

Job I was in, just out of the Army, gave me cars to drive. The Kimberley was one. P76 V8 Executive was another. If the switches had worked, the trims had not fallen off, and the styling had been better executed it would have been fantastic. It was light years better to drive than an HQ, or XA. Sure, the V8s that GM or Ford had a lot more development available, but neither marque cared all that much anymore. If BL had been anything other than BL they could have been something here. But they didn't, and they weren't. Pity. GM, Ford and Chrysler needed a kick in the arse. BL failed to deliver. They got more than one from Toyota and Nissan and they never recovered.



Really?? Didn't notice... [bigwhistle] "Red" motors were worse than "Grey".
Very strange, but AMI which assembled Toyotas back then was majority owned by BL.

[mick88]

HQ Kingswood instead which was an excellent car , only main fault was the rear main they could not stop leaking , but that has been a fault on all 6cyl Holden motor from day one.[/QUOTE]


1950 Landy
Was it mainly the "rope" seal or the neoprene ones as well?


Cheers, Mick.

[Homestar]

HQ Kingswood instead which was an excellent car , only main fault was the rear main they could not stop leaking , but that has been a fault on all 6cyl Holden motor from day one.


1950 Landy
Was it mainly the "rope" seal or the neoprene ones as well?


Cheers, Mick.[/QUOTE]

I had no dramas with the later neoprene sealed rear mains on the 3.3’s. Aftermarket rope seals would last weeks, New OEM rope seals would stay leak free for almost 6 months... [emoji16]

[mick88]

1950 Landy
Was it mainly the "rope" seal or the neoprene ones as well?


Cheers, Mick.

I had no dramas with the later neoprene sealed rear mains on the 3.3’s. Aftermarket rope seals would last weeks, New OEM rope seals would stay leak free for almost 6 months... [emoji16][/QUOTE]

You need the correct crankshaft to suit the seal, the ones suited to rope seals were knurled, neo's were smooth.
Even some of the Blue engines were still using rope seals.


Cheers, Mick.

[Homestar]

I had no dramas with the later neoprene sealed rear mains on the 3.3’s. Aftermarket rope seals would last weeks, New OEM rope seals would stay leak free for almost 6 months... [emoji16]

You need the correct crankshaft to suit the seal, the ones suited to rope seals were knurled, neo's were smooth.
Even some of the Blue engines were still using rope seals.


Cheers, Mick.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but the rope seals still leaked even with the correct crank. Dad had an HQ from new - it leaked from about the 3rd month of ownership.

[1950landy]

We had the rear main done three times in the 1st year of ownership on the 202 in our HQ. My FJ ute, FE , HD X2 , HD Ute , HQ & VB Commodore all leaked from the reear main.

[Tins]

Very strange, but AMI which assembled Toyotas back then was majority owned by BL.

Not really strange at all. Sure, AMI did assembly of things like the Tiara, but Toyota took a controlling interest in AMI, and its Port Melb facility in 1968, a site Toyota occupied until they ceased Australian manufacture. Leslie Thiess had a fair bit to do with this. AMI assembled Triumphs early on, and Ramblers before the Toyota connection.
The P76, and as far as I know, the X6, had no connection with AMI, but were built at Leyland's Zetland plant in Sydney.

[JDNSW]

Didn't AMI assemble Beetles? Or was that someone else?

[sharmy]

Not really strange at all. Sure, AMI did assembly of things like the Tiara, but Toyota took a controlling interest in AMI, and its Port Melb facility in 1968, a site Toyota occupied until they ceased Australian manufacture. Leslie Thiess had a fair bit to do with this. AMI assembled Triumphs early on, and Ramblers before the Toyota connection.
The P76, and as far as I know, the X6, had no connection with AMI, but were built at Leyland's Zetland plant in Sydney.
I think it was later than 1968 when Toyota took control. AMI certainly assembled coronas and Toyota first bought York Motors' (A Leyland Australia and Toyota Distributer) Share. Leyland then sold their share when they needed the dollars to help fill the financial black hole the P76 was causing. At one stage Leyland considered putting the Triumph 2500 into full production but went with the P76 instead.

[Tins]

I think it was later than 1968 when Toyota took control. A

Depends what is meant by "controlling interest". It was 1968, but they took 50% in 1971. P76 production began in1973.

Anyway, the poor OP is no doubt wondering what happened to his thread about red motors and Series trucks.[bigrolf]

We may have earned a place here: Threads that go off topic - here and other forums. (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/222093-threads-go-off-topic-here-other-forums-471.html)

[paddygeorge]

Hey everyone
Can anyone tell me why I can’t get my gearbox spline to fit into an original series 3 motor, my series 3 landy had the red holden 202 motor in it which I have taken out, I have tried to put a different 2.25l petrol series engine in but will not slide on no matter how much I try, what’s the issue!!! I have heard of a spigot bearing that is stopping it from fitting? Please help

[JDNSW]

Need to check a couple of things.

Measure the diameter of the spigot on the end of the gearbox shaft, and the diameter of the bush in the centre of the flywheel - they should match, with the shaft slightly smaller. Possible problems are a burr on either part or there is a bush stuck on the spigot, or wrong bush. Ideally need inside and outside calipers to measure this.

Check that the clutch plate easily slides on the shaft - wrong plate?

The plate needs to be the right way round, and correctly centred using a suitable alignment tool.

If all this checks out, a big help is to temporarily replace three of the bell housing to flywheel housing studs with long bolts with the heads cut off. This will ensure everything is correctly aligned before you get to aligning the bits you can't see!