Living with the New Defender

[AlexRS4]

Seems like a few new owners on the forum and more coming.

What's it like to live with? Things you like? Annoyances? Reliability? Anyone done any touring in one? How about the work/school run?

[zilch]

been a dream so far, just clicked over 5000 KM's, no issues, only been back to the dealer to have the accessories fitted post initial delivery.
The one annoyance, auto stop/start, nowhere on the MHEV to disable it that i have found permanently, if you had the original 4 pot D200/D240,
there was a plug you could pull under the cargo floor in the rear to turn the feature off with out any "codes" or warnings being thrown up..
the other niggle is the P400 requires some brake fettling to fit 18" , not yet committed to that until i find out if LR will swap for the other LR calipers,
although I do have 255/65 R19, so still a decent profile for a 19' rim..

2200KM trip planned Sydney to Airlie beach in approx 7 weeks time, and full prep for a lap of Oz including the harder nether regions in early
2022, when the off road caravan rocks up.. I had it PPF'd in anticipation of the trip due to the level of unsealed/gravel roads up around the
Kimberleys and other areas.. wanted to protect rather than fix the paintwork when it is 2 years old.

169349

[Garfield]

Zilch,

Can I ask which PPF you got ? I gather this is not a vinyl wrap ???? Or similar thing ? Can you see it on the car ? Do they do the grill, f/r bumpers, side mirrors etc



been a dream so far, just clicked over 5000 KM's, no issues, only been back to the dealer to have the accessories fitted post initial delivery.
The one annoyance, auto stop/start, nowhere on the MHEV to disable it that i have found permanently, if you had the original 4 pot D200/D240,
there was a plug you could pull under the cargo floor in the rear to turn the feature off with out any "codes" or warnings being thrown up..
the other niggle is the P400 requires some brake fettling to fit 18" , not yet committed to that until i find out if LR will swap for the other LR calipers,
although I do have 255/65 R19, so still a decent profile for a 19' rim..

2200KM trip planned Sydney to Airlie beach in approx 7 weeks time, and full prep for a lap of Oz including the harder nether regions in early
2022, when the off road caravan rocks up.. I had it PPF'd in anticipation of the trip due to the level of unsealed/gravel roads up around the
Kimberleys and other areas.. wanted to protect rather than fix the paintwork when it is 2 years old.

169349

[zilch]

Zilch,

Can I ask which PPF you got ? I gather this is not a vinyl wrap ???? Or similar thing ? Can you see it on the car ? Do they do the grill, f/r bumpers, side mirrors etc


Xpel gloss ultimate PPF with xpel ceramic coat finish,I had all the vehicle minus the roof between the
rails, included mirrors, bumpers, grill etc, Xpel is the PPF that LR use but with the satin
finish (Matt/stealth)

[Garfield]

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR........................... thanks [smilebigeye]



Xpel gloss ultimate PPF with xpel ceramic coat finish,I had all the vehicle minus the roof between the
rails, included mirrors, bumpers, grill etc, Xpel is the PPF that LR use but with the satin
finish (Matt/stealth)

[AlexRS4]

Great call on the wrap. My D4 was wrapped for the first 9 years of its life by the previous owner, and the paint looks new as a result despite over 80,000km of touring off road.

Looks fantastic. Colour is my biggest challenge [emoji23] Love the Gondwana stone, Hakuba silver, Eiger grey and the Fuji white.

I wish there was an option for a traditional LR dark green though - like British racing Green on the FFRR.

Might go for white and have it wrapped green.

[TB]

Hi Alex. Since joining here in 2017 I've gone from driving a 2015 Discovery Sport, to a 2010 Discovery 4 and for the past few months and 8500km a 2020 Defender First Edition. I'll do a separate post about the details I guess but I'd like to give you some sense of things that would be the same no matter which new Defender you're talking about or the options it might have.

It's a little glitchy in the infotainment but it's thoroughly great to drive. Passenger space is excellent. Boot space is challenging compared to the D4.

It's taken me a while to get used to reversing it, and I still don't like reversing in the dark because there's not enough light thrown out the back to make the cameras work well.

My D4 was relegated to parking outside because it was already 3rd-hand and covered in pinstripes. The Defender being shiny and new and about thrice the price was worthy of reconfiguring the garage and moving some stuff out to a garden shed, but even so I have to lock the suspension in access height and usually engage low range so I can reverse ultra carefully into the rather tight space. Actually the space isn't that small, it's just a large vehicle. I'm holding off installing a roof rack until I can be 100% certain I'd still be able to get into the garage with the added height.

I mention the roof because when it comes to camping or touring I think the Defender's smaller boot makes it mandatory that you utilise the much improved roof load capacity. 168kg is the weight you're allowed to have up there while driving, providing you're on sturdy enough tires. The spare wheel has come out from under to give better clearance, but eats into what would have been boot space, so more volume of stuff needs to go all the way up high.

The brakes are super sensitive. Some people hate them. I've gotten used to them.

The space in front of the centre console is large but it's rather difficult to get things in or out of there. Except for 1.5L bottles of water, two of which just drop straight in very happily. They'll squish your USB cables though for your CarPlay or Android Auto connection. I'm re-thinking my plans for that area now to focus on permanent fixtures like the UHF unit. Or flexible things like a package of hand wipes. TP maybe since I don't have the wonderfully large cup holders from the D4's rear quarter shelves that were perfect for the emergency roll.

Build quality has been somewhere between good and great in most respects. I have one bit of plastic trim behind the front left wheel that doesn't sit quite flush; the driver's A pillar cover needed correctly attaching to stop the highway-speed buzzing; the rear passenger door and seal needed adjusting to remove the extra firm pull that door demanded in order to open; the exterior window trim is a bit loose and rattles around a bit as many have noted. Yet everything that feels like it actually matters feels solid and precise and reliable. Touch wood.

The rear door is a bit small and has an awkwardly-shaped opening as far as cargo is concerned, but actually operating the door is a tiny bit of a revelation. It's got some magic arm thing that seems to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. So despite being obviously heavy you just put the door where you want it and it stays there. Give it a wiggle and it's free to move again. And once you get it *almost* closed there's an automatic motorised helper to bring it securely shut.

Mind you the infotainment doesn't beep or chime at all if you accidentally drive off with the rear door open. It just shows you the normal picture of the vehicle but with what looks like nappy chafing on its bum – the rear door is coloured in red but it's NOT shown as being open the way all the other doors are. I got to nearly 100kph before realising it wasn't one of the kids windows being down that was making the wind noise.

But the bottom line is the same as the top one. It's just delightful to be inside it, and especially to drive it. People obviously put a LOT of time and effort into designing this vehicle and though not better in every way (I miss the physical gearshift and other driveline controls from the 10yo D4) it's my favourite thing so far, by a mile.

[AlexRS4]

Thanks TB great post.

I'm also coming from a 2010 D4, albeit one with drawers permanently installed in the back with a half height luggage barrier, so I'm actually already used to a pitifully small and awkward space and having to use the roof for anything decently sized.

That said, a pioneer rack is a god send. So easy to load and secure.

Super keen to hear how people are going touring in them. A report on issues after a lap would be amazing.

[hweebe]

Bump....
as I’m interested to hear some long term reviews about the defender

[TB]

Bump....
as I’m interested to hear some long term reviews about the defender

Just shy of 20,000km.
Still brilliant to drive.
A PITA to change tyres due to super high body lift needed.
GVM nightmare.

With my muddies on, the bar and winch up front, 1/3rd tank of fuel and literally nothing else but myself (80kg) in the vehicle, the weighbridge says 2.66 tonnes. My GVM is 3,150kg.

Unless somebody can find a way to re-certify my vehicle up towards the 3,320kg rating of other Defender variants with the same chassis and suspension, I'm facing some tough decisions.

[zilch]

Had the vehicle a year now, so a few things to report..

Done just shy of 19,000 KM's and it has been solid, cruises nicely and for a large HP engine it has been reasonably frugal,
averaging about 12.6L/100 over the first year. On some trips the economy is at about 10.1-10.6L, on short trips its way
up there in the high teens.

A few niggles, the off side passenger door rear quarter light had to be replaced, original had seals that were manufactured
slightly to thick, and there is an infernal squeaking that requires the seals on the doors to be treated with lubricant to tone
down the noise. The textile elements of the seats go grey with dirt and dust very quickly, a known problem on early models
but remedied in 21 and 22 models.. LR as usual are sat on their harris and will only recommend a clean, apparently all down
to a fire retardant that sucks up dust.

On the weights side, the 7 seater is more forgiving, and as i am due to pick up my off road biased caravan i went to a certified
Qld Govt weigh bridge to make sure i would be in limit. The vehicle with all the options and accessories (e-diff, tow pack, RAI,
side steps, ladder, expedition rack, front protection plate, rear recovery eyes), the wife, myself, full tank of petrol and 20KG of
tools in the back came in at 2.78T, GVM allowed on the 5+2 is 3.25T. Rear axle loading came in at 1.42T vs permissible loading
of 1.9T. This should give me enough for the Tow ball weight, targeting in the range of 260-280 max.

Servicing, i have ignored LR's schedule service (34K/2 years) and stuck to my own, oil and filters change at 12.5K and its
annual is due in about 3 weeks.. so around 20K for next oil and filters change.. there are to many horror stories of oil dilution
and failed SD4 engines for me to "respect" LR's recommendations.

Overall i would say it has been a pleasure to own and drive, 40 years driving land rovers, 10 in the Army so company cars,
and owned for 30 years a number of models, such as the classic RR, Disco's, RRS's (of which the wife still has), and this so
far has been my favourite. Quite a few people come up and want to chat about the vehicle, even Toyo and Nissan fans, overall
comments have been quite positive.

One further comment, on road the wifes 10 year old RRS seems that little bit more comfortable and dynamic from road holding,
whereas off road the Defender feels far more at home and at ease. Our RRS has done the OTT and many other off road areas and
is a beast and handles it well, the Defender just feels a bit more relaxed and capable off the bitumen.

P.S. The real PITA is that the smallest wheels are 19' on the P400 and the Goodyears are pretty soft from a side wall perspective,
so forking out a shed full of cash to undertake the Tuff Ant conversion to 18" which is ADR certified and will allow me to fit LT
based Falken Wildpeak's, so when we do our lap/tour of Oz early next year, i have far more confidence in the tyres that are
fitted.


Cheers all and stay safe

Jim

[hweebe]

Just shy of 20,000km.
Still brilliant to drive.
A PITA to change tyres due to super high body lift needed.
GVM nightmare.

With my muddies on, the bar and winch up front, 1/3rd tank of fuel and literally nothing else but myself (80kg) in the vehicle, the weighbridge says 2.66 tonnes. My GVM is 3,150kg.

Unless somebody can find a way to re-certify my vehicle up towards the 3,320kg rating of other Defender variants with the same chassis and suspension, I'm facing some tough decisions.

I remember reading that you still need to account 68kg per seat (occupied of not) and 14kg for luggage.

Do you tow anything regularly?

[TB]

Do you tow anything regularly?

No, and I was hoping to avoid it. But now I'm contemplating a Stockman Pod Trailer. Mostly it'll just be me in the car for the bigger trips but it's still tight especially when taking into account extra fuel, water, 2nd spare, recovery gear etc.

[Tombie]

No, and I was hoping to avoid it. But now I'm contemplating a Stockman Pod Trailer. Mostly it'll just be me in the car for the bigger trips but it's still tight especially when taking into account extra fuel, water, 2nd spare, recovery gear etc.

Its tight on pretty much any vehicle once people are honest about it.

you still run around the 500kg mark which is clos to the norm for many 4wds.. with a bar on the nose etc.

Rightly or wrongly - You'd be very lucky to find a 4wd on a trip that isnt well above GVM.



As for GVM upgrade - find an appropriate engineer, have a chat. If there is no mechanical difference at all between 5 and 7 seat models it should be reasonably easy to recertify.

[Stormer]

Just shy of 20,000km.
Still brilliant to drive.
A PITA to change tyres due to super high body lift needed.
GVM nightmare.

With my muddies on, the bar and winch up front, 1/3rd tank of fuel and literally nothing else but myself (80kg) in the vehicle, the weighbridge says 2.66 tonnes. My GVM is 3,150kg.

Unless somebody can find a way to re-certify my vehicle up towards the 3,320kg rating of other Defender variants with the same chassis and suspension, I'm facing some tough decisions.


how have you found the bull bar/winch combo? Easy to use ?

[TB]

how have you found the bull bar/winch combo? Easy to use ?

Um, I'm not sure that I've actually "used" the bar, unless you count attaching my UHF antenna to it. And if it's attachments you're asking about I can tell you it's a complete PITA because it sits so close to the body shape. There's a gap of a few mm right where the front corner of the bonnet is that allowed me to put a Stedi light bar clamp that has worked out for my antenna.

The winch I have used. Quarter turn quick release screws to remove the license plate are simple but fiddly and you don't want to drop them in the mud. I've never had a winch before so I can't compare it to anything, but it it has done the job asked of it a couple of times. Couple of areas of potential improvement with the winch remote though:

First, the stupid thing has no physical off switch. It is permanently using power looking for wireless connections and flattens itself in under 2 weeks. If you want to be ready to winch in an emergency, keep your remote charging at all times. Mine lives behind the Pivi screen with a little USB cable attached to it.

Second, the remote once lost its pairing with the winch and it was an adventure trying to figure it out in the bush. It's possible there's a simpler way than this but I had to remove the little mesh grille and reach my (skinny, long-fingered) hand around the back of the winch controller to toggle the remote module off and on again.

[scarry]

As for GVM upgrade - find an appropriate engineer, have a chat. If there is no mechanical difference at all between 5 and 7 seat models it should be reasonably easy to recertify.

I think you will find being monocoque is the issue.

[Tombie]

I think you will find being monocoque is the issue.

Yes, however the 5&7 seaters would likely be the same mono.

If they are a GVM increase should still be feasible.

[scarry]

Yes, however the 5&7 seaters would likely be the same mono.

If they are a GVM increase should still be feasible.

I agree 100%,shouldnt be an issue.

It will also be interesting to see the weight ratings of the 130 when it turns up.

In Qld,no GVM increase is allowed on a vehicle with a monocoque design.The Paj owners have been complaining about this for years.

I dont know if its the same in other states.

[laughto]

It's taken me a while to get used to reversing it, and I still don't like reversing in the dark because there's not enough light thrown out the back to make the cameras work well.



If you haven't come across them yet, Powerfuluk have a solution to the poor reverse lights (several versions actually - click link) ==> You are being redirected... (https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/land-rover/defender/new-defender-2020/led-reverse-light-upgrade-kit-for-land-rover-defender-l663-all-white.html)

There is also a very good YouTube vid to show you how to do the install (or have someone do it for you) - Land Rover Defender L663 Reverse light upgrade v2 - New Plinth + Dual Light Function ! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/khZHaLj4XWc)

I have only come across these guys in the past six months while looking for accessories that I may need when (and if) my Defender ever arrives! The main man, Simon Jefferson is a bit quirky but thoroughly entertaining and I think actually a competent engineer. He makes plenty of mistakes, but acknowledges and corrects them and shows how to avoid these.

They have developed a plethora of accessories for the new Defender. Worth a look thru their website and also at their YouTube clips.

[SBD4]

If you haven't come across them yet, Powerfuluk have a solution to the poor reverse lights (several versions actually - click link) ==> You are being redirected... (https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/land-rover/defender/new-defender-2020/led-reverse-light-upgrade-kit-for-land-rover-defender-l663-all-white.html)

There is also a very good YouTube vid to show you how to do the install (or have someone do it for you) - Land Rover Defender L663 Reverse light upgrade v2 - New Plinth + Dual Light Function ! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/khZHaLj4XWc)

I have only come across these guys in the past six months while looking for accessories that I may need when (and if) my Defender ever arrives! The main man, Simon Jefferson is a bit quirky but thoroughly entertaining and I think actually a competent engineer. He makes plenty of mistakes, but acknowledges and corrects them and shows how to avoid these.

They have developed a plethora of accessories for the new Defender. Worth a look thru their website and also at their YouTube clips.

Same problem with the L494. Could not see a bloody thing when reversing at night. I swapped it the incandescent reversing globes for some decent LED lights which helped a bit. The high position of the light does nothing to help illuminate the ground and immediate surroundings behind the vehicle. I looked at options similar to what powerfulUK have done for the L663 but couldn't come up with a discrete solution. Fortunately the L663 lends itself to the style of lighting that was used by PowerfulUK - ace job by them.

Might have to revisit this to see if something has come on the market for the L494.

[laughto]

Same problem with the L494. Could not see a bloody thing when reversing at night. I swapped it the incandescent reversing globes for some decent LED lights which helped a bit. The high position of the light does nothing to help illuminate the ground and immediate surroundings behind the vehicle. I looked at options similar to what powerfulUK have done for the L663 but couldn't come up with a discrete solution. Fortunately the L663 lends itself to the style of lighting that was used by PowerfulUK - ace job by them.

Might have to revisit this to see if something has come on the market for the L494.

How about this ==> You are being redirected... (https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/range-rover-evoque-sport/sport-2014-l494/lamps-light-upgrades/range-rover-sport-l494-rear-tailgate-led-light-strip-for-vehicles-with-no-reverse-camera.html) or this ==> You are being redirected... (https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/range-rover-evoque-sport/sport-2014-l494/lamps-light-upgrades/range-rover-sport-l494-rear-tailgate-led-light-strip-for-vehicles-with-reverse-camera.html)

[SBD4]

How about this ==> You are being redirected... (https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/range-rover-evoque-sport/sport-2014-l494/lamps-light-upgrades/range-rover-sport-l494-rear-tailgate-led-light-strip-for-vehicles-with-no-reverse-camera.html) or this ==> You are being redirected... (https://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/range-rover-evoque-sport/sport-2014-l494/lamps-light-upgrades/range-rover-sport-l494-rear-tailgate-led-light-strip-for-vehicles-with-reverse-camera.html)
Yeah, I saw those when they were released, Unfortunately they are not a reversing light, they're a full width tail/brake light. Looks quite good.

[Jase_T]

Had my MY21 110 D300 now for about 2 months but finally managed to be released from house arrest and take it camping for the first time.

Parked it up over night with the odd occasional opening of the doors to get things in and out, found it frustrating that every time I opened the doors the Bluetooth connects to the car and the center console turns on.

By the next morning the low battery warning came on to prompt me to turn on the ignition.

Anyone know how to deal with this?

[laughto]

Had my MY21 110 D300 now for about 2 months but finally managed to be released from house arrest and take it camping for the first time.


When did you order the Defender?

[rar110]

Not the same, but on my L322 I converted to LED interior lights which helps. Not sure what’s in the new defender.

[TB]

Had my MY21 110 D300 now for about 2 months but finally managed to be released from house arrest and take it camping for the first time.

Parked it up over night with the odd occasional opening of the doors to get things in and out, found it frustrating that every time I opened the doors the Bluetooth connects to the car and the center console turns on.

By the next morning the low battery warning came on to prompt me to turn on the ignition.

Anyone know how to deal with this?

Welcome, Jase.

Yes what you've described is one of the big PITAs about the L663. JLR really didn't think this one through and there are some very bad assumptions baked into their software. The good thing about software though is that it can be changed... in an ideal world we'd get an update with some kind of "battery saver" mode for camping etc that ignores the doors and leaves all the systems powered off until you do something like press the Start/Stop button. Come to think of it, holding that button without your foot on the brake would be a perfect way to activate that mode.

In the meantime, some people report that hiding your remote fobs in shielded bags is a good way to reduce the amount of activity from the computers. Leaving the vehicle unlocked is also good, and leaving doors open instead of actually closing them helps. There's a way to disable keyless entry that I'm gonna get around to experimenting with. As a backstop, some dual battery systems have features that can help you in the event of a flat starter, or grab yourself a lithium jump starter. I got a Noco GBX45 but haven't done an actual test with a flattened starter yet.

It's also a good idea to put your vehicle on an actual battery charger overnight, at least every few weeks. The "smart" alternator behaviour in these vehicles has a tendency to leave the starter battery in a not-fully-charged state, even on the MHEVs like yours. That behaviour is also controlled by software though, so possibly it will be, or already has been, updated.

I have a bluetooth battery monitor installed on my starter battery. They're cheap, they work, and they help you understand what's going on with the electrical system in your vehicle.

Cheers
TB

[Jase_T]

When did you order the Defender?

I ordered it in Jan this year. Was suppose to receive it in May. COVID caused a delay and in July the dealership called me and told me there was going to b a $4000 increase on the vehicle due to parts that were unavailable. Gave me the option to cancel...

[Jase_T]

Welcome, Jase.

Yes what you've described is one of the big PITAs about the L663. JLR really didn't think this one through and there are some very bad assumptions baked into their software. The good thing about software though is that it can be changed... in an ideal world we'd get an update with some kind of "battery saver" mode for camping etc that ignores the doors and leaves all the systems powered off until you do something like press the Start/Stop button. Come to think of it, holding that button without your foot on the brake would be a perfect way to activate that mode.

In the meantime, some people report that hiding your remote fobs in shielded bags is a good way to reduce the amount of activity from the computers. Leaving the vehicle unlocked is also good, and leaving doors open instead of actually closing them helps. There's a way to disable keyless entry that I'm gonna get around to experimenting with. As a backstop, some dual battery systems have features that can help you in the event of a flat starter, or grab yourself a lithium jump starter. I got a Noco GBX45 but haven't done an actual test with a flattened starter yet.

It's also a good idea to put your vehicle on an actual battery charger overnight, at least every few weeks. The "smart" alternator behaviour in these vehicles has a tendency to leave the starter battery in a not-fully-charged state, even on the MHEVs like yours. That behaviour is also controlled by software though, so possibly it will be, or already has been, updated.

I have a bluetooth battery monitor installed on my starter battery. They're cheap, they work, and they help you understand what's going on with the electrical system in your vehicle.

Cheers
TB


Thanks TB,

This is super helpful. Come to think of it I did have my key in my pocket most of the time which explains why it kept turning on.

Will definitely get a jump starter and store it in the back of the vehicle.

Cheers again.
J