D4 engine choice

[Chardo]

Hi all, this topic seems to have been covered over several threads (older members are probably very sick of seeing it pop up), however I just thought I would double check I have understood prior to making any commitments...

I really would like to buy a D4, however have been largely put off by the 3.0ltr (even well maintained examples) potentially handgrenading and costing more than the car is worth to fix. Am I correct in saying that the safe bet (engine wise) is either the 2.7 or the 5.0?

If this is correct, why does the 2.7 fail in the D3 but not the D4, my understanding is that it is the same engine across both series...

Thank you in advance.

[kelvo]

The 2.7 was available up to and including MY12, badged as the TdV6 (Lowercase d), the 3.0 was also available at the same time this was badges as TDV6 (Capital D). Currently 18 2.7 Discovery 4 on Carsales carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/results?q=%28And.EngineSize.range%28..2800%29._.%2 8C.Make.Land%20Rover._.Model.Discovery%204.%29%29&sort=Price)
The 5.0 was also available up to and including MY12.

[loanrangie]

Hi all, this topic seems to have been covered over several threads (older members are probably very sick of seeing it pop up), however I just thought I would double check I have understood prior to making any commitments...

I really would like to buy a D4, however have been largely put off by the 3.0ltr (even well maintained examples) potentially handgrenading and costing more than the car is worth to fix. Am I correct in saying that the safe bet (engine wise) is either the 2.7 or the 5.0?

If this is correct, why does the 2.7 fail in the D3 but not the D4, my understanding is that it is the same engine across both series...

Thank you in advance.

Oil pump was updated in the MY09 or there abouts 2.7 so they dont snap off the tensioner mount.

[PerthDisco]

I’d be interested to know if they changed oil service interval to 12 months in the D4 as they did with the 3.0.

In my D3 it’s 6 months and I’d stay with that using only the correct Castrol Magnatec oil 5-30W A5

[Eric SDV6SE]

Go for the 3.0 SCV6 if you can find one...

[scarry]

The D4 2.7 was the most reliable of all the diesels,and if you need a bit more grunt a BAS tune will liven it up.

There were obviously some mods done,from the 2.7 engine in the D3,but no one really knows for sure what they were,apart from the oil pump,and a few other minor things.

Even in the FORD Territory that ran the same engine,there were very few if any major failures,cranks,etc.

The V8 is also pretty reliable if looked after,that is,serviced correctly.

[Chardo]

The D4 2.7 was the most reliable of all the diesels,and if you need a bit more grunt a BAS tune will liven it up.

There were obviously some mods done,from the 2.7 engine in the D3,but no one really knows for sure what they were,apart from the oil pump,and a few other minor things.

Even in the FORD Territory that ran the same engine,there were very few if any major failures,cranks,etc.

The V8 is also pretty reliable if looked after,that is,serviced correctly.


Thanks for that, it is a real shame about the 3.0 (on paper it looks great), now to try and find a lowish km V8.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thanks for that, it is a real shame about the 3.0 (on paper it looks great), now to try and find a lowish km V8.

210800km on my SDV6SE 3.0 and going strong (famous last words perhaps?)

Oil service every 10k kms

[DiscoJeffster]

210800km on my SDV6SE 3.0 and going strong (famous last words perhaps?)

Oil service every 10k kms

Dude. The 3L is a POS engine in all realities, and I say that owning one. Between manifolds, throttle bodies splitting, turbos going, turbine control valves and the cranks failing, they’re silly money to keep running when compared to a 2.7L D4. That’s the point. When they go they’re nice but the upkeep is pretty steep compared to the other engines.

[Disco-tastic]

Oil pump was updated in the MY09 or there abouts 2.7 so they dont snap off the tensioner mount.I thought there were crank snapping issues on the D3 2.7L. Or is that only in the 3.0L?

[Discodicky]

Thanks for that, it is a real shame about the 3.0 (on paper it looks great), now to try and find a lowish km V8.

At risk of putting the mockers on myself, I think the 3.0 problem is well out of proportion to the numbers "out there" who have not/will not fail.

There are many owners here who have well in excess 200k and several over 300k with no problems, and what %age of Aus Disco owners contribute to this Forum? (bugger all I'd say).
I make a point of saying hello to as many owners as possible and discussing Disco's when it allows and without exception they are very happy with their car and have had no serious probs whatsoever.

My 2013 is approaching 155,000 and I service it every 8-10 klms with the correct oil.

The long oil change frequencies appears to be one of the major, if not THE major contributor to failure.
I am a huge fan of Wynns products having had good experiences with the product over the years and maybe that is helping look after my bearing problem, who knows.

Contrary to what some people claim, the crankshaft doesn't break as the initial failure per se.
The problem according to the LR Service Bulletins is that the conrod bearing/s rotate (spin) due to incorrect assembly at the LR engine plant, and "pick up" due to the oil feed gallery hole becoming blocked, which can then cause other catastrophic failures, one of which is seizure thus potentially breaking the crankshaft.

The other LR engines are not without their problems as do other brands of vehicles.

The SCV6 petrol engine requires timing chains at not insignificant cost and doesn't have the torque nor fuel economy of the diesel if that is important to you.

The pick of the D4 would be the Jaguar V8 engine but appear to be as rare as the proverbial, but you wouldn't use the words "fuel economy" and "V8" in the same sentence. [tonguewink]

Without wishing to appear blase about it, in the course in the event of an engine failure, a $15-20k rebuild should not necessarily mean ditching the car.
An exchange 3.0 reco engine is available for around $6k in NSW and with labour & misc costs etc hopefully would take it to around $14k ish.
Worth considering spending the dough and keeping the car for several further years knowing that you are still driving one of the best, most capable, and nicest to drive, 4WD's on this planet.

Amortise the engine repair cost over several years of ownership and it doesn't appear so bad after all.

What else do you buy which provides so many features and driving pleasure without spending mega mega bucks?
I drove a mate's new Prado t'other day and that trans is still no improvement on 4 years ago as it still doesn't know which gear it wants to be in.

Find a late SD/TD 3.0 with full service history incl oil change periods around 10,000 klms and you can't go wrong!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The above is probably on the money,,
as the biggest LR website IN THE WHOLE WORLD by definition we see lots of problems that non-forumites would never realise were common-place,
The upside to reading about these problems is the best fix for it is on here too...

[Piddler]

A V8 for sale in WA on car sales at moment.
Cheers

[Chardo]

Thank you Discodicky, some great perspective, and worth thinking about.

I will keep the search open, and won’t write off the SD6 (so long as maintenance has been fastidious). Having said that I am kinda liking the idea of the 5.0, having come from an LS3 redline I know all to well about the global warming properties of the V8s and can only imagine what returns you would get off road.

Thank you again for that information, it does paint a different picture to some/most of the other comments and threads.

Oh and yes I have seen the V8 over west, it looks nice, but I am hoping for lower mileage than 180K (maybe optimistic on my behalf).

Thanks again.

[Grumbles]

I was under the impression that the SC 5 V8 was self destructing any time after 50 thousand clicks due to a timing chain guide/tensioner failing.

[101RRS]

I was under the impression that the SC 5 V8 was self destructing any time after 50 thousand clicks due to a timing chain guide/tensioner failing.

I dont think it is that bad and it is any 5 litre not just the SC - however like our 3.0 destruct posts, the US forums are full of V8 destruct posts and they are trying to get a Class action going.

[Tins]

carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2013-land-rover-discovery-4-sdv6-hse-auto-4x4-my13/SSE-AD-7170316/?Cr=0)

[scarry]

carsales.com.au (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2013-land-rover-discovery-4-sdv6-hse-auto-4x4-my13/SSE-AD-7170316/?Cr=0)

Dreaming

[Discodicky]

I was under the impression that the SC 5 V8 was self destructing any time after 50 thousand clicks due to a timing chain guide/tensioner failing.

My understanding is the timing chain tensioner problem was only on the early V8's, as was a problem with the Nickasil bores (in the Jaguars at least)

I've only heard good things about that engine; seems like I'm not looking in the right places?

One thing to consider about having a D3/4 V8 . If you wish to travel to remote-ish areas it probably requires Premium fuel (?) which may not be available "outback".
I guess no probs to carry a small bottle of "octane enhancer" whilst you are outback.

I see there is also an early D3 V8 in Victoria showing on carsales.
Not such a silly buy at that price?
You get a "lot of car" for the price!

[scarry]

I see there is also an early D3 V8 in Victoria showing on carsales.
Not such a silly buy at that price?
You get a "lot of car" for the price!

And a lot of headaches.[tonguewink]

[Discodicky]

And a lot of headaches.[tonguewink]

Well, yes and no.

In the local newspaper last Sunday was a big article about the (stupidly outrageous) prices some people are paying for 200 Series Landcruisers; new, near new, or very low klms.

Fools seem paranoid the new 300 series will be a retrograde step from the 200 as it is "only" a 6 cyl.

Examples were cited and it seems people are prepared to pay circa $150-170k for a new 'cruiser, just to get a 200 series!

I'll bet their values don't remain as proportionally high when their friendly Dealer offers them a trade-in price in a few years time.

My point is that you could completely re-furbish, engine/trans/diffs/suspension etc etc on a D3/4 for much less than half that price and still have a nicer car than the cruiser.
Well, in my opinion anyway, and I have driven the latest model cruiser.

[scarry]

My point is that you could completely re-furbish, engine/trans/diffs/suspension etc etc on a D3/4 for much less than half that price and still have a nicer car than the cruiser.
Well, in my opinion anyway, and I have driven the latest model cruiser.

Sure,you could do that, but if you can't do the work yourself, the costs would well out weigh the economics of doing the job.

And then you still end up with an old vehicle that will more than likely be unreliable and continually need work.

Anyway,whatever the OP or anyone wants to do.

Yes the 200 prices are absolutely ridiculous,and I am sure a V8 diesel in a few years time will be worth bugga all.
The silly thing is there are quite a few new ones now at dealers, cheaper than what some paid recently for 2nd hand.[bighmmm]
And no doubt the new model will be way better than the 200 in every way.

Sure the D3/4 handles and rides way better than the 200,nothing beats EAS,and IS all corners.With TR,it is also more capable, in some situations.
But in many other areas, the 200,IMHO,is way ahead.
Just my 2 cents worth, after owning both.

[DiscoJeffster]

I disagree. I bet there will be a nostalgia factor to the v8 200 series that it’ll command more money for a long time. It’s no different to air cooled Porsches. Water cooled were more reliable and higher power output but they weren’t “true” like the 200’ers will think of anything less than the v8. I think there’s a money to be saved in that car - if you consider you could use it for five years and suffer little depreciation

[101RRS]

I bet there will be a nostalgia factor to the v8 200 series that it’ll command more money for a long time. It’s no different to air cooled Porsches.

And no different to the old Defender - no one was buying them new and used prices were ordinary until announcement was made that production would cease in 2016 - immediately sales of new Defenders increased and used prices started to skyrocket and are still going up.

[scarry]

I disagree. I bet there will be a nostalgia factor to the v8 200 series that it’ll command more money for a long time. It’s no different to air cooled Porsches. Water cooled were more reliable and higher power output but they weren’t “true” like the 200’ers will think of anything less than the v8. I think there’s a money to be saved in that car - if you consider you could use it for five years and suffer little depreciation

You could be right if you look at what a good 100 series is worth at the moment,or even a good 80.

But the issue is there are a lot more 200 series around than,as an example,an old model Defender.

And everyone knew the new Defender would be a totally new animal,nothing like the old one,that was the end of an era,so that adds value.

[mowog]

I have owned my D4 from new in 2010. Oil and service every 6 months we are currently at 240k

The Gearbox serviced at around 60k intervals
4 Struts replaced at 150k
Front control arms at 190k

Whats gone wrong?

1. Manifold split. Replaced both and the coolant crossover (200k)
2. AC Compressor Failure (210k)
3. Main Prop shaft center bearing (220K)
4. Torque Converter replaced at (230k)
5. Intake Plenum split
6. The Rear air needs a new mixing valve to do

I keep fixing it because its still cheaper than replacing it. It has been setup for touring with a long range tank, I have the GOE 18's
I am lucky my neighbor is a Land Rover Specialist so repairs and servicing aren't to crazy in price.

And because I am a bit crazy I just brought a 2008 TDV8 Range Rover Vouge. It had 97000k on it when I picked it up. It is a bloody awesome thing to drive. The BIG what IF is why Land Rover never put a TDV8 in the D3 or D4.

[Discodicky]

I have owned my D4 from new in 2010. Oil and service every 6 months we are currently at 240k

The Gearbox serviced at around 60k intervals
4 Struts replaced at 150k
Front control arms at 190k

Whats gone wrong?

1. Manifold split. Replaced both and the coolant crossover (200k)
2. AC Compressor Failure (210k)
3. Main Prop shaft center bearing (220K)
4. Torque Converter replaced at (230k)
5. Intake Plenum split
6. The Rear air needs a new mixing valve to do

I keep fixing it because its still cheaper than replacing it. It has been setup for touring with a long range tank, I have the GOE 18's
I am lucky my neighbor is a Land Rover Specialist so repairs and servicing aren't to crazy in price.

And because I am a bit crazy I just brought a 2008 TDV8 Range Rover Vouge. It had 97000k on it when I picked it up. It is a bloody awesome thing to drive. The BIG what IF is why Land Rover never put a TDV8 in the D3 or D4.


JRA sends me a PR email every few weeks with various articles, mainly concerning the new Deefer and Disco's, probably in the hope I'll buy a new one soon....
Just rec'd today's and has an interesting article about Trevor Howard and his (looks like it is a 2008 or 9?) RRS with the TDV8 engine.
Has done 11 trips across the Nullabor, numerous trips from Broome to Fremantle etc etc.
Current mileage is 860,000 klms......
I'd love to know if the engine is original.
I had a 2009 RRS with the TDV8 and it is a superb engine.

[Eric SDV6SE]

There was a recent article of a D3 with a confirmed 760,000km. 2nd engine and 3rd transmission or something like that.

[rar110]

Here’s the article.

News – EPIC ADVENTURES IN THE UNBREAKABLE RANGE ROVER TDV8 | SUV and 4WD - Land Rover(R) Australia (https://www.landrover.com.au/experiences/news/2021/epic-adventures-in-tdv8.html?j=1035970&sfmc_sub=156250898&l=11703_HTML&u=44076818&mid=7297172&jb=8001&utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_content=April&UTM_b=lr&utm_m=range_rover&utm_c=o&utm_d=&utm_term=Trevor+Howard+CTA&utm_id=1035970&sfmc_id=156250898)

[cripesamighty]

That might have been 'character' off the disco3.co.uk forum. He had 471,000 miles (758,000 kms) on his D3, before the engine let go and he decided it wasn't worth fixing it.
My D3 is still a fair way off both of those at only 533,000kms...

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Major surgery - not sure whether he's going to pull thru (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic76293.html)

[rossan]

What is the paranoia with having to own a dirty stinking smoke belching polluting diesel engine? There seems to be a fixation on fuel economy that ignores the ongoing maintenance costs of servicing and repairing diesel engines. I have a 2005 series 3 disco with a 4.4 V8 (heaven forbid) petrol engine and yes I enjoy the smooth effortless power all at around 12 to 16 litres per 100 depending on how heavy my foot is.
I read in wonder the trials and tribulations of the diesel powered owners all reporting horrific costs of repairs and maintenance. The cost of replacing a failed turbo would pay for enough fuel to run my car for 5 years or more. I did get a tank full of bad fuel on one trip that caused a few problems and had to have all the injectors serviced. That was pretty devastating having to pay out $225 for that!!!!! Oh also had to replace two ignition coils at a cost of $360 which apart from the normal servicing (oil and filter changes which I do myself for around $120) that is all I have had to spend on the engine in 250,000 k's.
Fuel is the cheapest thing you put into a car.

[Eric SDV6SE]

No paranoia here, just need to be aware whats required re servicing, as wirh any car really. To me its a trade off between maintainability and usability. Yes my sdv6 is maintenance intensive, but it does everything i want. My wifes petrol jeep is easy to maintain, but does not have the hp or torque or fuel range of the diesel.

Happy to drive and service both.

If i had my time again would I buy a diesel D4? Probably not.