Which car?

[Homestar]

This is generally a question that is fraught with danger but here goes. There’s a chance I could be leaving the work Hilux and getting into something more comfortable. Don’t go yota bashing, it’s been a great car - but after 5 years and 200,000KM I’m after something that rides a bit better (I think an upholstered brick would, but anyway).

Shopping list is as follows - Please don’t put down options I’ve specifically excluded here - I’ve been doing a tonne of research and anything excluded is for a reason. Must have list is just that, so please don’t suggest vehicles that don’t meet this lists spec.

-Mid sized SUV or wagon
-All wheel drive, or selectable 4WD - AWD preferred.
-Minimum 2000Kg towing capacity - it won’t need to tow much very often but if I grab a dingo or similar from work it needs to be able to tow it.
-Leather interior - or Pug proof fabric.
-Budget up to $60K - $65K at a pinch if I found exactly what I wanted.
-Prefer Diesel
-Prefer full sized spare

I have short listed several vehicles but wondering what others opinions are before I list those. Below is a list of vehicles I won’t consider or have already struck off the list.

NOT the following- these have been excluded for a variety of reasons, from didn’t like interiors to ‘I wouldn’t be caught dead in that’
Anything European.
Ford.
Kia Sorento.
Mazda CX-9
Hyundai Palasade
Utes, trays, etc.
Haval, LDV, etc

Contenders so far are-
Hyundai Sante Fe.
Pros - meets all the specs, Cons - Not sure I like the inside.
Subaru Outback.
Pros - looks good, meets spec. Cons - engine options - only comes in NA Petrol.
Mazda CX-8
Pros - meets spec, Cons - It’s a Mazda and I don’t overly like the look of them.

So, what others can you think of that meets all of this???

TIA.

[1950landy]

I would prefer the Hyundai , we have had 4 Hyundai's so far never had a problem, my daughter is on her 6th all been problem free . I would also say Kia which is a Hyundai for there extra warranty, but the Hyundai seams to have better interior. But every one to there own.

[Homestar]

The Sante Fe is still in contention but the interior didn't grab me and the high centre console put me off a bit and seemed to make me feel too confined. The Sorento interior just put me off completely unfortunately - I sat in it for 10 seconds and it was gone from my list completely. My first 2 visits were to Hyundia and Kia but I've had to look further afield which I wasn't really expecting - we've have Hyundais and Kias in the family and I rate both very highly. It might sound trivial talking about not buying a car because of the interior, but I spend up to 20 hours a week behind the wheel so I need to really like it before splashing out on it.

[Tins]

If AWD wasn't a must I'd suggest the MU-X.

[101RRS]

While a little expensive a RAV4 is very good. My brother had a few versions as his work car for many years and it was great - comfortable and quiet - 2wd/AWD options, petrol/diesel/hybrid.

[Homestar]

While a little expensive a RAV4 is very good. My brother had a few versions as his work car for many years and it was great - comfortable and quiet - 2wd/AWD options, petrol/diesel/hybrid.

Towing capacity only 1500kg unfortunately - I quite like them.

[101RRS]

Well half of your contenders list are already crossed off on that criteria alone.

[grey_ghost]

With the Subaru - make sure that you drive it, if I'm not mistaken it's a CVT transmission? I have driven a few CVT's and disliked them all - not saying that the Subaru isn't nice, maybe I just copped a few crappy CVTs.

VW Tiguan? Depending on model, with brakes tows between 1800kg - 2500kg.

[Homestar]

If AWD wasn't a must I'd suggest the MU-X.

Selectable 4WD while not preferable is an option - and I hadn’t considered one of these - will check them out. Thanks. [emoji106]

[cripesamighty]

Speaking of CVT’s, are they a good choice for towing? Some CVT’s have been problematic in the past with towing (ie taking off uphill or with a heavy load) but I don’t know about newer models.

[pop058]

2 questions

Does the Outback meet your towing spec and, if so

Do Subaru put a speed restriction when towing (particularly over 2T) ?

[Homestar]

Speaking of CVT’s, are they a good choice for towing? Some CVT’s have been problematic in the past with towing (ie taking off uphill or with a heavy load) but I don’t know about newer models.

Towing will only be required a couple of times a year for short distances so not too worried about that. [emoji106]

[Homestar]

2 questions

Does the Outback meet your towing spec and, if so

Do Subaru put a speed restriction when towing (particularly over 2T) ?

Yes - 2000kg braked trailer capacity with 200kg ball weight.

No idea on the second question - again with the amount of towing it will do, I’m not concerned about that. Just need the 2000kg rating or else I can’t borrow trailers - and what’s on them - from work when/if needed. [emoji106]

[Homestar]

With the Subaru - make sure that you drive it, if I'm not mistaken it's a CVT transmission? I have driven a few CVT's and disliked them all - not saying that the Subaru isn't nice, maybe I just copped a few crappy CVTs.

VW Tiguan? Depending on model, with brakes tows between 1800kg - 2500kg.

Have yet to test drive the new model - will let you know. The folks old Maxima had a CVT and yeah, it’s different...

As for a Tiguan - see first post... [emoji6]

[Disco-tastic]

You havent mentioned them in your exclusions, and I know its a dirty word around here but the Jeep Cherokee might fit your bill. 3.2 V6 (no diesel unfortunately) and 2.2T towing in the limited for under $50k

I have a friend with an older one who hasnt had any issue as far as i know, and another who has had a couple of grand cherokees and loves them but we've all heard the horror stories.

Anyway im not neceasarily recommending it but it is an option.

[Tins]

Selectable 4WD while not preferable is an option - and I hadn’t considered one of these - will check them out. Thanks. [emoji106]

bullet proof reliability, 6 year/150,000 k warranty, one badge has leather, 3.0 turbo diesel. 6 speed auto. Definitely worth a look.

[jonesfam]

DON"T get an X-Trail!
I don't know what they tow but are pretty poor.
We have 4 as our hire fleet, OK to drive but constant build quality problems & every time we need a part they have to phone Japan?
Also bloody low to he ground.
Jonesfam

[RANDLOVER]

Toyota Kluger, Mitsi Pajero Sport, Mitsi Outlander?

[shwza]

You havent mentioned them in your exclusions, and I know its a dirty word around here but the Jeep Cherokee.....

Somebody please ban this guy

[shwza]

Kia have great warranty and you'll definitely use it. They'll do anything they can to deter you from bringing it in and they'll charge you $180 an hour if they find something isn't under warranty. You can get a replacement car but you'll have to book it in and pick it up and drop it off in business hours

[Disco-tastic]

Toyota Kluger, Mitsi Pajero Sport, Mitsi Outlander?By all reports the new outlander sucks to drive. The CVT isnt intuitive in the way it responds and feels sluggish

[Vern]

Y62[emoji848][emoji6][emoji41]

[RANDLOVER]

By all reports the new outlander sucks to drive. The CVT isnt intuitive in the way it responds and feels sluggish

I wonder if the very new one will be any better, not sure if it'll come out this year or next.


https://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/content/dam/mmal/vehicles/outlander/22my/showroom/pre-registration/762x572px.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/cq5dam.web.1280.1280.jpeg

[Homestar]

You havent mentioned them in your exclusions, and I know its a dirty word around here but the Jeep Cherokee might fit your bill. 3.2 V6 (no diesel unfortunately) and 2.2T towing in the limited for under $50k

I have a friend with an older one who hasnt had any issue as far as i know, and another who has had a couple of grand cherokees and loves them but we've all heard the horror stories.

Anyway im not neceasarily recommending it but it is an option.

Oops, my bad - that should have been in the ‘I wouldn’t be caught dead in one’ column...

[Homestar]

Toyota Kluger, Mitsi Pajero Sport, Mitsi Outlander?

Yeah, main problem is they are running up to my max dollars for a fairly base spec model. Not out of contention though (Outlander is though). [emoji106]

[Homestar]

Kia have great warranty and you'll definitely use it. They'll do anything they can to deter you from bringing it in and they'll charge you $180 an hour if they find something isn't under warranty. You can get a replacement car but you'll have to book it in and pick it up and drop it off in business hours

Already off my list due to them being horrible inside.

[shwza]

Subaru Outback.


Pros - looks good, meets spec.
Cons - not on my P plates so won't look like a proper Subaru.


Seriously though I rate these things they seem to take a beating really well. Just look at all the ones that have survived the red and greens

[Homestar]

Y62[emoji848][emoji6][emoji41]

Don’t worry, I actually thought about one for a few seconds, but doesn’t quite meet the brief and falls with the Palasade, Land Cruiser, etc as being too big. The Sante Fe and Sorento were pushing it size wise too and they are a step down from the Y62 size wise.

[shwza]

Already off my list due to them being horrible inside.

Some of them aren't too bad inside but not my cup of tea either. I find a lot of these drive better if you use them in semi auto as well. They still cruise on cruise control and you don't get that weird jump down 2 gears and Rev the hell out the engine thing they do when they don't allow for inclines

[pop058]

You havent mentioned them in your exclusions, and I know its a dirty word around here but the Jeep Cherokee might fit your bill. 3.2 V6 (no diesel unfortunately) and 2.2T towing in the limited for under $50k

I have a friend with an older one who hasnt had any issue as far as i know, and another who has had a couple of grand cherokees and loves them but we've all heard the horror stories.

Anyway im not neceasarily recommending it but it is an option.

LionelG recently got one as a tow tug and I was led to believe it was (based on a Merc) diesel. IIRC he is not overly impressed with it ( the motor). Might be worth some homework.

[Tins]

Y62[emoji848][emoji6][emoji41]

I was assuming a new vehicle was wanted. Love to know where I could get a new Y62 for 60k.

[Disco-tastic]

Oops, my bad - that should have been in the ‘I wouldn’t be caught dead in one’ column...Haha i thought that might be the case.

[Homestar]

I was assuming a new vehicle was wanted. Love to know where I could get a new Y62 for 60k.

While new is certainly where I want to be at, a secondhand vehicle with under 50,000KM on it could be considered but it would need to really ‘be the one’

[scarry]

In fact a Y62 just about suits all the criteria, apart from being petrol.....
Second hand that is, although you may need a few more $,but thats no biggie[tonguewink]

One of my brothers recently picked up a new MU-X,and he hates the noisey engine.He has just ordered what he had before, a Prado,seems there is 6 months wait for them.

What about another D/cab ute?
They say the Amarok rides very well, way better than any of the others, but I dunno if it will have the reliability and low maintenance costs of the vehicle you have now?

Prado,maybe out of your price range?

[350RRC]

Gav, I don't know why you don't throw 30k (say) at your 4 door RRC and do it all in style.

DL

[Vern]

I was assuming a new vehicle was wanted. Love to know where I could get a new Y62 for 60k.I paid $65k for mine brand new. Shop around

[Vern]

Don’t worry, I actually thought about one for a few seconds, but doesn’t quite meet the brief and falls with the Palasade, Land Cruiser, etc as being too big. The Sante Fe and Sorento were pushing it size wise too and they are a step down from the Y62 size wise.But think of that beautiful 400hp v8[emoji6]

[ozscott]

One of the best and underestimated vehicles is the Mitsubishi Pajero Sport. It is a coil sprung wagon version of the MR Triton with an 8 speed auto (versus 6 for triton) and terrific seats. The centre console is a bit wide but if you are ok with that it is a shed load of car for the money. If didn't need the room of the ute with a canopy I would definitely consider the sport. Have seen them mildly lifted and big tyres and they look great too when modded mildly. The rear is a little off-putting style wise. Cheers

[Tins]

The rear is a little off-putting style wise. Cheers

There's one getting around Melb with the sticker "I don't like the tail lights either" in the back window....[bigsmile]

[Homestar]

Gav, I don't know why you don't throw 30k (say) at your 4 door RRC and do it all in style.

DL

I need it to do 40 to 50KKM a year - I don’t think the Rangie is up for that, and even if it was, it would send it to a premature grave. I still dump some dollars into it but not for a daily. 👍

[Homestar]

In fact a Y62 just about suits all the criteria, apart from being petrol.....
Second hand that is, although you may need a few more $,but thats no biggie[tonguewink]

One of my brothers recently picked up a new MU-X,and he hates the noisey engine.He has just ordered what he had before, a Prado,seems there is 6 months wait for them.

What about another D/cab ute?
They say the Amarok rides very well, way better than any of the others, but I dunno if it will have the reliability and low maintenance costs of the vehicle you have now?

Prado,maybe out of your price range?

I think the fuel consumption on a Y62 isn’t something I’d want given the KM I do, and it is too big, and it’s petrol and no to another dual cab. 😁

Prado is doable but as a base model type thing so not really interested for the money they are.

[Homestar]

One of the best and underestimated vehicles is the Mitsubishi Pajero Sport. It is a coil sprung wagon version of the MR Triton with an 8 speed auto (versus 6 for triton) and terrific seats. The centre console is a bit wide but if you are ok with that it is a shed load of car for the money. If didn't need the room of the ute with a canopy I would definitely consider the sport. Have seen them mildly lifted and big tyres and they look great too when modded mildly. The rear is a little off-putting style wise. Cheers

It has been bouncing around in my brain. My Brother has one as does my neighbour across the road. I’ll add it to the list as a contender. 👍

[Landy Red]

I've got a 2019 Santa Fe for work. It's a solid car but handling on windy roads is pretty average. Diesel Engine is very efficient and great cruising long distances. 6th and 7th seats are usable but there is zero boot space if you do. Practical but nothing special about it.

I've just picked up a 2020 skoda superb scout for family car and it's the best of both worlds wagon v suv I reckon. It's a petrol turbo 2l with 200kw, 4wd. Handles like a dream on windy wet (or dry) roads, does 0-100 in 6 seconds, and a very capable offroad mode suitable for anything short of 4wd track. Super comfortable and practical, latest tech, beats hands down every suv in every aspect, we tried in price range. It's a Volkswagen meets audi. Great deal of car for money. Just a shame you don't want European. Has 5year warranty too. Best car I've owned recently out of kia sportage, fgx xr8 falcon and Ford fx4 ranger.

[Arapiles]

This is generally a question that is fraught with danger but here goes. There’s a chance I could be leaving the work Hilux and getting into something more comfortable. Don’t go yota bashing, it’s been a great car - but after 5 years and 200,000KM I’m after something that rides a bit better (I think an upholstered brick would, but anyway).

...........

So, what others can you think of that meets all of this???

TIA.

Ssanyong Rexton? The Musso is technically a dual-cab ute but it's supposed to have a decent ride ....

Otherwise another vote for the MU-X.

[rar110]

One of the best and underestimated vehicles is the Mitsubishi Pajero Sport. It is a coil sprung wagon version of the MR Triton with an 8 speed auto (versus 6 for triton) and terrific seats. The centre console is a bit wide but if you are ok with that it is a shed load of car for the money. If didn't need the room of the ute with a canopy I would definitely consider the sport. Have seen them mildly lifted and big tyres and they look great too when modded mildly. The rear is a little off-putting style wise. Cheers

I agree. Very good bang for buck. And you can leave it in 4WD hi range for road driving.

[spie]

Outback every day of the week - Subaru make fantastic cars for the money and have a customer support network that actually supports customers if there are any issues [which are rare] - Wifey's 2015 XV has been faultless and the 05 forester we had beforehand only had a starter motor failure in the 380KK we put on it after buying it second hand

[Grumbles]

I paid $65k for mine brand new. Shop around

Wow....you got a bargain. [thumbsupbig] I've been looking at Carsales for the Y62 over the last couple of months for a Y62. $65G got me a four year old Patrol with around 70 thou kms on it. New was in the $80G plus area. Demand is exceeding supply and won't even talk to me on the phone about buying one let alone haggle over price.

[Grumbles]

One of the best and underestimated vehicles is the Mitsubishi Pajero Sport.

Don't forget the now suoerceded NX Pajero. $62G will get you a top of the line NX Exceed and it's a very nice place to be. Only comes with a 3.2 diesel - mine gives 11/12 L per 100 km crawling around bush tracks in the low gears. It's reputation is that nothing goes wrong...just service it and drive it. 10 year factory warranty removes any doubt about future parts availability.They are a nice place to park your rear end.
At the afore mentioned $62G it is an absolute bargain. [thumbsupbig]

[jonesfam]

I must remember, next time I need to buy a car, not to ask for advice on this site.
The advice is good but sure does get complicated and confusing!
Jonesfam

[Homestar]

I must remember, next time I need to buy a car, not to ask for advice on this site.
The advice is good but sure does get complicated and confusing!
Jonesfam

Yes, it’s a minefield which is why I narrowed my criteria quite a bit before starting the thread - but I have got some other ideas from here that fit the bill that I hadn’t thought of so worth asking the question. [emoji4][emoji106]

[gromit]

I must remember, next time I need to buy a car, not to ask for advice on this site.
The advice is good but sure does get complicated and confusing!
Jonesfam

I'm looking at replacing my diesel Territory ( 3rd Terri, one petrol and currently on the second diesel).
40K usage per year, over 2 tonne tow capacity, 7 seats would be nice.
Currently looking at the Pajero Sport but haven't driven one yet, those tail lights are a bit 'special' though.
10 year warranty ( need to read the small print).
Everest is a possibility but not sure about either of the motor options and a bit exxy.

Some interesting comments in this thread about other brands and yes, confusing.

Colin

[Grumbles]

Some interesting comments in this thread about other brands and yes, confusing.
Colin

I think it is compulsory reading. Some very valuable insights being posted. [thumbsupbig]

[scarry]

One of my other brothers has a one year old Paj sport.

He likes it.
The only issue is in the soft sand the factory bash plates become a scoop for the sand,as it’s pretty low.
He replaced them with some after market ones that reduced the issue.
He has also been looking at a suspension lift but hasn’t done anything yet.

[DoubleChevron]

How much are the new defenders? they look like a pretend 4wd (dumb wheels, low profile treads .... ). I bet its tow capacity is good .... and I'm sure it has excellent ride quality (lets be honest here .... NONE of them are going offroad .... )

I've never been in a renault that doesn't have big soft seats and soft suspension .... Hopefully nothing has changed.

Renault Koleos review: The 2020 SUV you probably forgot about. Comes w/ Apple CarPlay + Android Auto - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMlFzbcS8C8)

Intersting, I just watch his summation at the end (i can't be bothered watching the rest). Yeah, sounds like good renault seating and ride quality. I"m not really a fan of CVT though.

seeya,
Shane L.

[scarry]

How much are the new defenders?

About twice the allocated budget[bigsad][biggrin]

Which makes something like a Y62 excellent value.

[V8Ian]

About twice the allocated budget[bigsad][biggrin]

Which makes something like a Y62 excellent value.
And comes from Europe. Apart from those couple of deal breakers, it fits the bill perfectly. [bigrolf]

[shwza]

About twice the allocated budget[bigsad][biggrin]

Which makes something like a Y62 excellent value.

Did not know that patrol was illegal in America!

Why is the Nissan Patrol Illegal in the United States? (https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-is-the-nissan-patrol-illegal-in-the-united-states/)

[Discodicky]

By all reports the new outlander sucks to drive. The CVT isnt intuitive in the way it responds and feels sluggish

Seriously, is there ANY CVT which is nice to drive?
Asking for my wife who is about to buy a new 'small' car, eg, Suzuki, Mits, Honda etc.
From comments I hear over the past months, they are all pretty much forgettable.
Who doesn't have a CVT these days as that is the small car I'd be interested in.

[vnx205]

The Toyata eCVT in the hybrids is quite unlike the other CVTs.
It works brilliantly

[RobMichelle]

Pajero Nx for me.
We test drove two Pajero sports from different dealers both had a lot of wind noise from front window

[Vern]

Did not know that patrol was illegal in America!

Why is the Nissan Patrol Illegal in the United States? (https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-is-the-nissan-patrol-illegal-in-the-united-states/)Its not, they get a rebadged version of the patrol, named the Armada, its basically the same with a few subtle differences.

[grey_ghost]

I was about to say - Skoda Kodiaq...But it’s European. Doh

[Disco-tastic]

Seriously, is there ANY CVT which is nice to drive?
Asking for my wife who is about to buy a new 'small' car, eg, Suzuki, Mits, Honda etc.
From comments I hear over the past months, they are all pretty much forgettable.
Who doesn't have a CVT these days as that is the small car I'd be interested in.The Honda ones are apparently not too bad. I drove a CVT jazz many years ago and it was ok. My parents just bought a CRV and they said the Honda CVT is miles ahead of the mitsu one in the outlander.

[Homestar]

I'm looking at replacing my diesel Territory ( 3rd Terri, one petrol and currently on the second diesel).
40K usage per year, over 2 tonne tow capacity, 7 seats would be nice.
Currently looking at the Pajero Sport but haven't driven one yet, those tail lights are a bit 'special' though.
10 year warranty ( need to read the small print).
Everest is a possibility but not sure about either of the motor options and a bit exxy.

Some interesting comments in this thread about other brands and yes, confusing.

Colin

Part of the 10 year warranty is a dealership warranty that Mitsubishi make them provide as part of the purchase price. I don’t think we’ll know how this is honoured for some time yet, but I wouldn’t expect too many dramas from the vehicle for at least 5 years and a couple of 100,000km.

[Homestar]

How much are the new defenders? they look like a pretend 4wd (dumb wheels, low profile treads .... ). I bet its tow capacity is good .... and I'm sure it has excellent ride quality (lets be honest here .... NONE of them are going offroad .... )

I've never been in a renault that doesn't have big soft seats and soft suspension .... Hopefully nothing has changed.

Renault Koleos review: The 2020 SUV you probably forgot about. Comes w/ Apple CarPlay + Android Auto - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMlFzbcS8C8)

Intersting, I just watch his summation at the end (i can't be bothered watching the rest). Yeah, sounds like good renault seating and ride quality. I"m not really a fan of CVT though.

seeya,
Shane L.

New Deefer is around $30K more than my max budget for a base spec unit so way out of my league unfortunately. It’s also European which counts it out too - as it does for the Renault.

FYI the reason I’m discounting Euro offerings is 2 fold. Firstly I don’t consider them good value for money - the specs are generally much lower until you pile in the money for all the extras whereas the Jap/Thailand/Korean offerings have much better feature lists as standard. This is plainly evident when you look at what my Son and his Partner bought - a mid spec VW Golf and a Kia Cerato. The Kia has way more features even in the base spec although Sons is the GT. All the tech is standard through the entire range - just the comfy bits get comfier as the spec level goes up. Kia has twice the warranty and leaves the golf in the dust performance wise and was $9,000 cheaper. The VW has been back to then dealers 3 times for warranty work in the last 18 months and the Kia zero (apart from servicing). The Kia has 20,000KM more on the clock now too. Build quality of the Kia is almost a match for the VW so I just don’t see why people would buy them to be honest.

Second reason I’ll probably cop some grief over but I just don’t see them as reliable enough for me overall - yes I’m sure everyone here will have a story of how great theirs is but they don’t come with anywhere near as good warranty, customer service or reviews overall. Sorry but it’s just the way I feel about them. Love older stuff, wouldn’t touch anything new from over there. There are also specific brands I would count out just because - Like VW or any in their stable (Skoda, Audi, Seat) because they are just lying arseholes about pretty much everything , Renault - sorry, I’m a Pom and just wouldn’t drive one.

I think it’s between the Subaru Outback and the Paj Sport currently. Will go take a closer look at each and test drive them. I like both the interior and exterior of the Outback but have reservations about the trans and engine combo and I’m not a fan of the Paj Sport exterior but I don’t mine the interior - which is what I’ll be looking at most of the time so interior is more important as far as that goes and of course how comfortable it is to drive, noise levels etc. The more refined ride is likely to be the winner.

I could hate the way they drive and be back to the drawing board. [emoji16]

[Redback]

This is generally a question that is fraught with danger but here goes. There’s a chance I could be leaving the work Hilux and getting into something more comfortable. Don’t go yota bashing, it’s been a great car - but after 5 years and 200,000KM I’m after something that rides a bit better (I think an upholstered brick would, but anyway).

Shopping list is as follows - Please don’t put down options I’ve specifically excluded here - I’ve been doing a tonne of research and anything excluded is for a reason. Must have list is just that, so please don’t suggest vehicles that don’t meet this lists spec.

-Mid sized SUV or wagon
-All wheel drive, or selectable 4WD - AWD preferred.
-Minimum 2000Kg towing capacity - it won’t need to tow much very often but if I grab a dingo or similar from work it needs to be able to tow it.
-Leather interior - or Pug proof fabric.
-Budget up to $60K - $65K at a pinch if I found exactly what I wanted.
-Prefer Diesel
-Prefer full sized spare

I have short listed several vehicles but wondering what others opinions are before I list those. Below is a list of vehicles I won’t consider or have already struck off the list.

NOT the following- these have been excluded for a variety of reasons, from didn’t like interiors to ‘I wouldn’t be caught dead in that’
Anything European.
Ford.
Kia Sorento.
Mazda CX-9
Hyundai Palasade
Utes, trays, etc.
Haval, LDV, etc

Contenders so far are-
Hyundai Sante Fe.
Pros - meets all the specs, Cons - Not sure I like the inside.
Subaru Outback.
Pros - looks good, meets spec. Cons - engine options - only comes in NA Petrol.
Mazda CX-8
Pros - meets spec, Cons - It’s a Mazda and I don’t overly like the look of them.

So, what others can you think of that meets all of this???

TIA.

In bold, same car:spudnikcoinflip:

[Homestar]

In bold, same car:spudnikcoinflip:

Which ones? Can’t see anything in bold? If you mean the Sorento and Sante fe, yes the base driveline is identical but the interiors are very different. Kia is out as it’s fugly as. Sante Fe is still in but lower on my list as I don’t hate it as much.

[gromit]

Part of the 10 year warranty is a dealership warranty that Mitsubishi make them provide as part of the purchase price. I don’t think we’ll know how this is honoured for some time yet, but I wouldn’t expect too many dramas from the vehicle for at least 5 years and a couple of 100,000km.

Just been looking at Everest vs. Pajero Sport.
Looks like I might have to try and get a good deal on an Everest, probably the 2 litre bi-turbo.
Both 3.1tonne tow capacity but Everest much bigger in the 2nd row and more space all round.
Don't need 4WD as it will be mostly a work/family vehicle.

Pros & cons with everything I've looked at.
Just need to get tyres & the cambelt done on the Terri while still on 'business' so later this year I have to make up my mind. Ford dealer is well trained now and looks after me.

Colin

[shwza]

Get the outback you'll be happy with it for sure go and buy it right now threads closed pics of the new ride please thx

[Arapiles]

Did not know that patrol was illegal in America!

Why is the Nissan Patrol Illegal in the United States? (https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-is-the-nissan-patrol-illegal-in-the-united-states/)


Stupidest article I've read in a while - the Patrol/Armada is sold in the USA, as even a cursory check by the article's author of Nissan USA's website would've revealed:

2021 Nissan Armada | Full-Size 8-Seat V8 SUV | Nissan USA (https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/crossovers-suvs/armada.html)

[Hoges]

I'm on my second Hyundai Santa Fe... In both cases I bought the "Elite" with the factory tow-bar package and the upgraded rear coils. I passed the first (2015 model...a diesel and 6sp auto) to my daughter. 100,000km fault free apart from a thermistor replacement for the aircon which was readily replaced under warranty. The current one (Dec 2019) has the diesel engine and the 8sp auto. It's covered 15,000 km. I've done two trips from Bris to Cairns and one to Canberra. In all cases it travels very well and "eats" the kms. In the "twisty" bits, simply move the gear selector to "manual" and change gear with the paddle switches. There's a press button 'mode' selector which when 'sport' is selected sends 50% drive Front and rear. Transforms the handling and tracks through corners quite well. I keep accurate fuel consumption figures, over the combined 115,000km the overall average is 7.4L/100km with long trips averaging between 6.1 and 6.8L/100km.

I don't have an electric brake controller as yet so any trailer work is less than 750kg. It towed a loaded trailer (690kg) to Toowoomba up the range without problems. When I bought the second vehicle, they had the 7yr warranty on offer.

If I was to buy again, I'd seriously consider the Pajero sport for its 10yr warranty, higher GCM, increased ground clearance (33mm) and low range transfer case....

Good luck with your choice!

PS the latest Santa Fe and Pallisade have the new Hyundai designed 8sp DCT which I understand is a "wet clutch" design. There's talk of a Hyundai dual cab with a "straight 6" 3L diesel and 8sp DCT for the Australian market with next year or 2023....

[Arapiles]

Part of the 10 year warranty is a dealership warranty that Mitsubishi make them provide as part of the purchase price. I don’t think we’ll know how this is honoured for some time yet, but I wouldn’t expect too many dramas from the vehicle for at least 5 years and a couple of 100,000km.


I was talking to a Mitsubishi dealer (a couple of years ago) about the Pajero vs the Pajero Sport - he said the Pajero engines are bulletproof but the jury was out on the Sport's engine because it was relatively new.

I'd buy a Pajero in a heartbeat if it weren't for the NVH and dash moving around - if Mitsubishi had just spent a little money on it they could've fixed the nagging issues and kept the space and handling.

[shwza]

Stupidest article I've read in a while - the Patrol/Armada is sold in the USA, as even a cursory check by the article's author of Nissan USA's website would've revealed:

2021 Nissan Armada | Full-Size 8-Seat V8 SUV | Nissan USA (https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/crossovers-suvs/armada.html)

That's now. It wasn't in the past and that was kinda the point. I thought the patrol was more widespread. America has strange standards. Their cars are dog turds as far as I'm concerned for the most part, but a lot of that had to do with support or lack of here . We have always had good support for the major Japanese brands, but I wouldn't have touched most Nissan or Mazda in Australia before the Korean and Chinese made such an impact with cheap cars. Now they are up in the top brands, and some of that has to do with the support they have here now

[chuck]

Prado GX would just fit your budget but ticks all your boxes.

[Arapiles]

That's now. It wasn't in the past and that was kinda the point.

The article - dated 27 July 2020 - stated that the Patrol wasn't allowed to be sold in the USA. At the time the article was written the Patrol/Armada was on sale in the USA and had been since 2017.

[Arapiles]

It’s also European which counts it out too - as it does for the Renault. .... Renault - sorry, I’m a Pom and just wouldn’t drive one.


Well ..... technically the Koleos is a Korean-Japanese hybrid - it's built in Busan by Samsung/Renault off a Nissan design.



I think it’s between the Subaru Outback and the Paj Sport currently. Will go take a closer look at each and test drive them. I like both the interior and exterior of the Outback but have reservations about the trans and engine combo and I’m not a fan of the Paj Sport exterior but I don’t mine the interior - which is what I’ll be looking at most of the time so interior is more important as far as that goes and of course how comfortable it is to drive, noise levels etc. The more refined ride is likely to be the winner.

I've test-driven the Sport and it rides well but is more cramped than the Outback.

[shwza]

The article - dated 27 July 2020 - stated that the Patrol wasn't allowed to be sold in the USA. At the time the article was written the Patrol/Armada was on sale in the USA and had been since 2017.

And prior to that it wasn't, and was never sold as a patrol. Kinda like saying we never had an opel corsair here. I get what you're trying to say, it's just kind of missing my point

[DoubleChevron]

New Deefer is around $30K more than my max budget for a base spec unit so way out of my league unfortunately. It’s also European which counts it out too - as it does for the Renault.

FYI the reason I’m discounting Euro offerings is 2 fold. Firstly I don’t consider them good value for money - the specs are generally much lower until you pile in the money for all the extras whereas the Jap/Thailand/Korean offerings have much better feature lists as standard. This is plainly evident when you look at what my Son and his Partner bought - a mid spec VW Golf and a Kia Cerato. The Kia has way more features even in the base spec although Sons is the GT. All the tech is standard through the entire range - just the comfy bits get comfier as the spec level goes up. Kia has twice the warranty and leaves the golf in the dust performance wise and was $9,000 cheaper. The VW has been back to then dealers 3 times for warranty work in the last 18 months and the Kia zero (apart from servicing). The Kia has 20,000KM more on the clock now too. Build quality of the Kia is almost a match for the VW so I just don’t see why people would buy them to be honest.

Second reason I’ll probably cop some grief over but I just don’t see them as reliable enough for me overall - yes I’m sure everyone here will have a story of how great theirs is but they don’t come with anywhere near as good warranty, customer service or reviews overall. Sorry but it’s just the way I feel about them. Love older stuff, wouldn’t touch anything new from over there. There are also specific brands I would count out just because - Like VW or any in their stable (Skoda, Audi, Seat) because they are just lying arseholes about pretty much everything , Renault - sorry, I’m a Pom and just wouldn’t drive one.

I think it’s between the Subaru Outback and the Paj Sport currently. Will go take a closer look at each and test drive them. I like both the interior and exterior of the Outback but have reservations about the trans and engine combo and I’m not a fan of the Paj Sport exterior but I don’t mine the interior - which is what I’ll be looking at most of the time so interior is more important as far as that goes and of course how comfortable it is to drive, noise levels etc. The more refined ride is likely to be the winner.

I could hate the way they drive and be back to the drawing board. [emoji16]

The renault is just a Rav 4 with the suspension setup and seating of a renault...... Remember renault owns Nissan ..... so there will be a lot of badge engineering going on ;) I wouldn't buy one because I like proper manual gearboxes, and there isn't enough dealers around any longer. I wouldn't be worried about anything else (they sell millions of renaults/nissans a year .... I'm not concerned with reliablility. There is several of them in my family at the moment....no problems at all !).

[Tins]

The renault is just a Rav 4 with the suspension setup and seating of a renault...... Remember renault owns Nissan .....

Funny. I thought the Rav 4 was a Toyota....

[V8Ian]

The renault is just a Rav 4 with the suspension setup and seating of a renault...... Remember renault owns Nissan ..... so there will be a lot of badge engineering going on ;) I wouldn't buy one because I like proper manual gearboxes, and there isn't enough dealers around any longer. I wouldn't be worried about anything else (they sell millions of renaults/nissans a year .... I'm not concerned with reliablility. There is several of them in my family at the moment....no problems at all !).


Funny. I thought the Rav 4 was a Toyota....
No wonder the Toyota dealer stonewalled me when I wanted some warranty work done on the Rav. [bighmmm]

[bblaze]

2007 Subaru forester (my current ride), only failure to date has been the thrust bearing lever. 197000km.
2012 Nissan x trail (wifes Ride) Had anew engine and transmission at 40000 km under warranty caused by a stuck thermostat, This is when we purchased the vehicle, It come with warranty, I new the owners and paid well under normal retail price. we had been looking for one for about 12 months. It now has 184000km and hasn't missed a beat.
I believe both these vehicle would reach your specs, I think the forester is the better tow vehicle maybe because its manual
cheers
blaze

[Homestar]

Well ..... technically the Koleos is a Korean-Japanese hybrid - it's built in Busan by Samsung/Renault off a Nissan design.
.

Don’t care where it’s made or who makes it - if it’s got a Renault badge on it I ain’t driving it. [emoji16]

[grey_ghost]

I test drove a Pajero Sport and found that the interior plastics were poor quality (fading on a demo car with 2,000km on it), it was cramped for someone of my (ahem) size and the rear end clunked. I asked the dealer about the rear end noise and he said “oh they all do that”

Specification wise it looked great.

[ozscott]

I was talking to a Mitsubishi dealer (a couple of years ago) about the Pajero vs the Pajero Sport - he said the Pajero engines are bulletproof but the jury was out on the Sport's engine because it was relatively new.

I'd buy a Pajero in a heartbeat if it weren't for the NVH and dash moving around - if Mitsubishi had just spent a little money on it they could've fixed the nagging issues and kept the space and handling.It's the all alloy 2.4 vtec that has been around now for some years in the MQ Triton and the MR Triton (and Mitsubishi sold massive numbers of both models) and they are very reliable engines with many examples over 300,000 without lifting a spanner (save for the valve clearance adjustment as part of service). Cheers

[1950landy]

Don’t care where it’s made or who makes it - if it’s got a Renault badge on it I ain’t driving it. [emoji16]
Wen we went to Tasmania couple of years back booked a X Trail hire car , on picking up were told we had got an upgrade to a Renault Koleos , same car different parents. It was nice to drive & comfortable & was good on fuel. But I didn't like the navigation system or the cruise control ( car kept exceeding set speed even on flat roads) Also found it hard to get it to a full tank before taking it back to air port , the pump kept cutting out from about 3/4 full to full.

[ozscott]

I test drove a Pajero Sport and found that the interior plastics were poor quality (fading on a demo car with 2,000km on it), it was cramped for someone of my (ahem) size and the rear end clunked. I asked the dealer about the rear end noise and he said “oh they all do that”

Specification wise it looked great.Dealers can be hopeless. I haven't seen complaints on the Paj Sport forum about a rear end noise so it may have been a one off if we are talking latest model (earlier ones could have a rear clunk). In terms of plastics they are hopefully the same as Triton...so don't look as flash as LR but are very hard wearing. Beauty of Mitsubishi is they actually warrant their vehicles properly. For eg. They had a casting issue (sound familiar with LR) on quite a few 2.5 diesels in their MN Triton. Overheating could develop. People are not infrequently posting on the forums that their 2.5 with several hundred thousand (one fellow over 300,000) and well outside warranty years took their vehicles in, and MA replaced the entire motor with a new one gratis. Cheers

[DoubleChevron]

Funny. I thought the Rav 4 was a Toyota....

damn it ... I meant Xtrail ..... they all seem the same to me

[Homestar]

damn it ... I meant Xtrail ..... they all seem the same to me

That’s half the problem - they all seem to be clones of one another - certainly as far as looks go.

One thing I know for sure is there isn’t a vehicle out there that meets what I want 100% and I don’t think I’m being super picky. Apart from the ones I’ve listed as being out I’m not looking at one brand or anything but I am a bit surprised I have had so much difficultly in finding a car I want to drive - after my run of company cars I’ve not exactly been spoilt. Hilux, Captiva, Commodore, Falcon, Transit and Hiace.

[Grumbles]

I'd buy a Pajero in a heartbeat if it weren't for the NVH and dash moving around - if Mitsubishi had just spent a little money on it they could've fixed the nagging issues and kept the space and handling.

i concur......they are a bit noisier inside than some other cars. But...the dash moving around....? I've not seen mine do that. Neither can I complain about the handling - mine drives quite well for me. Tyre choice will make a difference in how a car handles. Yes again - the storage space is huge.

Again - you're on the money. Some technology updates by Mitsubishi would have seen the Pajero still sell well. I doubt the Paj Sport will be as popular as its now superceded big brother.

[Arapiles]

i concur......they are a bit noisier inside than some other cars. But...the dash moving around....? I've not seen mine do that. Neither can I complain about the handling - mine drives quite well for me. Tyre choice will make a difference in how a car handles. Yes again - the storage space is huge.

Again - you're on the money. Some technology updates by Mitsubishi would have seen the Pajero still sell well. I doubt the Paj Sport will be as popular as its now superceded big brother.


I saw a couple of reviews that said that the centre stack vibrates and moves around. I agree that the Pajero's a good thing, I've come close to buying one a few times.

Mitsubishi were a client of mine when I was in Japan and I got to know them quite well, so stories about them replacing engines at 300k wouldn't surprise me.

[Arapiles]

If I was to buy again, I'd seriously consider the Pajero sport for its 10yr warranty, higher GCM, increased ground clearance (33mm) and low range transfer case....



There are 'drop" kits available so that when you lift the Pajero Sport to give it more ground clearance you can keep the suspension at the right angles:

Karrman Diff Drop and UCA kit Mitsubishi Triton MQ/MR - Pajero Sport Suitable For 3 Inch Lift | Superior Engineering (https://www.superiorengineering.com.au/karrman-diff-drop-and-uca-kit-mitsubishi-triton-mq-mr-pajero-sport-to-suit-3-inch-lift-32137)

Karrman Diff Drop and UCA Kit For Triton and Pajero Sport | Loaded 4X4 (https://loaded4x4.com.au/karrman-diff-drop-and-uca-kit-for-triton-and-pajero-sport/)

[Tombie]

If I was buying a new car at the moment:
Kia or Mitsubishi.

Mitsubishi - 10 yr warranty, fixed price servicing

Kia - 7 year warranty, exception service

[shwza]

Kia - 7 year warranty, exception service

Would rate Kia service and warranty as a hard 5 out of 10. Would push it to 6 but you shouldn't even have to use warranty with a brand new car

[1950landy]

Would rate Kia service and warranty as a hard 5 out of 10. Would push it to 6 but you shouldn't even have to use warranty with a brand new car


None of the Hyundai that we & my daughter have bought new have ever had a warranty claim ( around 10 between us) I would think Kia would be the same being born from same parents. We normally keep for 7years before trading without any mechanical problems . One was passed on to son in law who kept it for another 5 years as daily driver until hail damage write off . Only repairs in the 10 plus years was servicing & cam belt replacement.

[scarry]

shouldn't even have to use warranty with a brand new car

Ever bought a new LR?

I have had 4 of them,the warranty has saved me arms,legs and kidneys.[biggrin]

Not one of them got to it’s first 10k service without more than one issue.

[Homestar]

Would rate Kia service and warranty as a hard 5 out of 10. Would push it to 6 but you shouldn't even have to use warranty with a brand new car

While I'm sure there are plenty here that's never had to use a manufactures warranty, All but one the company cars I've driven have had significant issue that were repaired under warranty. I'm not hard on the vehicles either like some may think - I treat them well as I need to rely on them daily.

Toyota Hiace - the exception to the rule - never had an issue in 230,000KM from new
Ford Transit 1 - Flywheel failure requiring a tow, new flywheel and gearbox (input shaft was ripped out of the box when the 3 piece flywheel reverted back to its 3 bits all of a sudden. 6 weeks off the road driving a friggin econovan as there were no gearboxes in the country at the time.
Ford Transit 2 - Turbo failure at 40,000KM - was at the dealers for 2 weeks as it also split the intercooler and they couldn't find the boost leak - idiots...
Ford Falcon - Front suspension and brake issues - to be fair I think this was just a one off - they seem to be almost bullet proof and after the repairs never had another issue.
Holden Commodore Wagon - Wiring loom failure at 20,000KM. ECU failure at 130,000KM. ECU failure at 190,000KM
Holden Captiva - Leaking heater core from new. Wiring issue of some sort at 40,000KM - they never did tell me the exact cause but it used to go into limp mode every couple of weeks for no reason.
Toyota Hilux (Current ride) - Ongoing DPF issues for over 12 months that they refused to fix until the class action happened - even then took another 6 months to get a new one fitted. While this never stopped the car outright, it did cause limp mode a few times and also around 8 visits to the dealership overall - probably the most annoying and frustrating issues I've had to deal with.

Whatever I choose will need to do the best part of 1,000KM a week for 5 years so having a decent warranty - any also just as importantly - an OEM that treats their customers with a little respect, is very important in my decision. Subaru, Kia, Hyundai and Mitsubishi all seem to be ok in this regard. It is on of the reasons I discounted any Ford straight up.

[scarry]

While I'm sure there are plenty here that's never had to use a manufactures warranty, All but one the company cars I've driven have had significant issue that were repaired under warranty. I'm not hard on the vehicles either like some may think - I treat them well as I need to rely on them daily.

Toyota Hiace - the exception to the rule - never had an issue in 230,000KM from new

As I have said on here before,we have had three of them do over 300 000 km with not a single repair.And that’s loaded almost on GVM,and manuals,mostly around town work.The one I drive is currently on 200 000Km,no repair either.
One of the others did bearings in the diff,that was its only repair over 300000km,which is when we move them on.

And still get reasonable money for them,even though they are a worn out service van.

Rediculous reliability.

[shwza]

Toyota Hiace - I've run these to amazingly high k's, even the 2.4 petrol model to half a mill they are amazing
Ford Transit 1 - one of the biggest lemons produced ever, the earlier models anyway imo
Ford Transit 2 - another U2 song about citrus
Ford Falcon - very unlucky they are bulletproof usually
Holden Commodore Wagon - an expensive Australian flag
Holden Captiva - you really like lemons lol
Toyota Hilux (Current ride) - this is unlucky, the hilux used to be such a great car

The outback is the one I reckon. You're due for a reliable car. You may get bored though 😂 start fixing things around the house instead

Kia are not great. Their service centres are booked months in advance and they will try their best to get you to get someone else to look at it

[Tombie]

The outback is the one I reckon. You're due for a reliable car. You may get bored though [emoji23] start fixing things around the house instead

Kia are not great. Their service centres are booked months in advance and they will try their best to get you to get someone else to look at it

I just phoned 3 dealers to test your theory.
Maximum 2 week wait..

All were happy to book my “vehicle” in (I just said I’d look at my schedule and phone back)

[shwza]

I just phoned 3 dealers to test your theory.
Maximum 2 week wait..

All were happy to book my “vehicle” in (I just said I’d look at my schedule and phone back)

Fair enough. Sometimes it's about what service Centre is closest as well. You've got to get to the service Centre and back in business hours and also get a replacement vehicle. I'm in NSW though, and from what I've seen it hasn't been great and if you're semi rural or rural is limited. Plus they'll charge you 180 an hour if it's not deemed to be a warranty issue. It's not a theory from where I am, it's fact and I've seen it. I was not impressed at all with the attitude or the service, and that means a lot to me if a huge company can't at least give decent support you've lost me. They fix the problem if it's warranty, but it's like pulling teeth trying to get them to do anything where I am. I've witnessed them put customers in tears just from basic enquiries that they ended up being totally covered by warranty for in the end. Maybe that's the local dealer slash service Centre here but they do their best to separate the dealer from the repair Centre as well. If you call Kia directly if there's an issue, they aren't exactly a unified force. They do their best to keep everything separate and they will tell you that.

[1950landy]

Ever bought a new LR?

I have had 4 of them,the warranty has saved me arms,legs and kidneys.[biggrin]

Not one of them got to it’s first 10k service without more than one issue.
Sounds like the Citroen C4 we bought new , lost was 10 items long at 1st service , we never had a warranty claim in the 3years we owned it only because dealer would not fix anything , By end of warranty the list had groaned to around 40 , I then took to independent workshop who fixed most of the problems until it started to have computer problems , diesel return to the tank split & I could no longer put up with the Catalytic Converter problems & cut our loses Went back to Hyundai after that. Payed $56,000 new for it & got $6,000 trade in 6years on . Every time I see someone driving a C4 I think poor bugger.[bighmmm]

[rihanar]

I've been driving Volvo XC 90

[ozscott]

There are only 2 countries i wouldn't buy a car from. France and Sweden [emoji1787]. Cheers

[V8Ian]

I thought you had better taste than that, Andrew. I've owned a number of 240/4/5 Volvos, they're bulletproof, almost bombproof. I also lusted after a Renault 16.
Enter the 21st century, not too much blows my frock up.

[ozscott]

Ian i helped my brother put a hot Holden 6 into a very tasty Volvo about 35 years ago tripling the horse power. Volvo made some nice sedans including for Bathurst...but they are a far cry from the modern ones. I have driven a few of the 70's and 80's Volvo sedans and didn't mind them at all. But, you I couldn't ever bring myself to go near the modern ones especially the XC's. I should have clarified my comments but was having too much fun with the post immediately before mine [emoji1787]

Cheers

PS some of the Peugeots were quick but the French stuff makes LR look very reliable

[Arapiles]

Sounds like the Citroen C4 we bought new , lost was 10 items long at 1st service , we never had a warranty claim in the 3years we owned it only because dealer would not fix anything , By end of warranty the list had groaned to around 40 , I then took to independent workshop who fixed most of the problems until it started to have computer problems , diesel return to the tank split & I could no longer put up with the Catalytic Converter problems & cut our loses Went back to Hyundai after that. Payed $56,000 new for it & got $6,000 trade in 6years on . Every time I see someone driving a C4 I think poor bugger.[bighmmm]

A mate of mine spent $30,000+ on an Indian motorbike (Roadmaster, maybe? ****ing huge in any case) and it was effectively written off due to continual engine problems about two years later. They gave him a good trade in on a new one .... I wouldn't've copped it. And my D4 got better mileage.

[V8Ian]

Ian i helped my brother put a hot Holden 6 into a very tasty Volvo about 35 years ago tripling the horse power. Volvo made some nice sedans including for Bathurst...but they are a far cry from the modern ones. I have driven a few of the 70's and 80's Volvo sedans and didn't mind them at all. But, you I couldn't ever bring myself to go near the modern ones especially the XC's. I should have clarified my comments but was having too much fun with the post immediately before mine [emoji1787]

Cheers

PS some of the Peugeots were quick but the French stuff makes LR look very reliable
My son has one of my old 245s. He did a mockup and fitted a Clevo into it. That project was abandoned when all the engineering approvals became apparent. To fit roller rockers needed modifications to steering and master cylinder.
Plan B, massage and inject a 2.3, it keeps V8s honest but eats clutches.

[Tombie]

I thought you had better taste than that, Andrew. I've owned a number of 240/4/5 Volvos, they're bulletproof, almost bombproof. I also lusted after a Renault 16.
Enter the 21st century, not too much blows my frock up.

Is that because said frock is now a bit tighter than it was in the 20th century?

[V8Ian]

Is that because said frock is now a bit tighter than it was in the 20th century?
I'll have you know I still fit into my wedding dress.

[Homestar]

Well there’s a thought that’s going to haunt me all day now...

[gromit]

When I was living in the UK I had a Renault 21 sedan and then a 21 Savanna (wagon) company cars, then I ran my own Savanna on business and last was a Renault Espace.
This was back in the days of 1 year warranty but I paid extra for an additional 2 years.
No real problems with any of them. Espace had a head gasket at about 100,000miles (known problem), a CV joint at about 180,000miles and the alternator wore out at just over 200,000miles (replaced under the extended warranty).
When I left for Australia it was on 212,000miles.
The only complaint at the time was the cost of spare parts.

Not sure what they are like now so I probably wouldn't buy one here.

Most 'estate' cars (wagons) were modified sedan bodies, you could see this from the rear doors where the top swept down but the roof was straight. Renault had different rear doors for the wagon.
Renault ran an advert with a picture showing one competitor with a brick built conversion from a sedan to a wagon, another has a corrugated iron conversion then there was a picture of the Savanna and underneath was written Real Estate !

The only time I had a problem that caused me unexpected time 'off the road' was when one of the twin glass sunroofs on the Espace shattered and covered me in glass fragments (stone thrown up by a car in front !). It was of course winter so I drove home with hot feet and a cold head plus partial deafness from the wind noise.


Colin

[ramblingboy42]

I'm doing a similar thing to you Gav except different vehicle outcome.

I'm actually looking for my "king of the dual cab 4x4s".

I've been going into dealerships to look smell touch sit kick drive.

Why does this have to be an unpleasant experience? What is it with car salesmen? Do any of you have a mate who is a car salesman?

In the last couple of weeks I have just about been repelled out of the concept of purchasing a new car by the "toxic" approach and talk from car salesmen.

Lies are abundant and I hope I can tell this without incurring wrath from mods.

I have been in 3 different Ford dealers to discuss the "new" tradie dual cab Ranger. No dealership will show me one and the salesman seems to filibuster around offering opportunities to "secure" one with a deposit sight unseen, or a different model on special, or a demo. I don't believe Ford even have any models and is a buildup from basic model , which they deny. They can't understand my reasoning and I told one woman that it wasn't the way I do business and she said she felt sorry for me and they weren't going to change the way they did business.

My wife has a new financial assistant who does all of that stuff and I may be able to get him to find what I want at best price without even having to go near a dealership or car salesman as he does everything including delivery.

There, I feel better already.

[grey_ghost]

I simply loath car salesmen. I have purchased maybe 20 new cars in my time, and have only liked 1 salesman in that time.

I remember a few years ago demanding my keys back (they needed them for a tradein value), raised my voice enough that the manager came running over.

He couldn’t understand why I was so frustrated..

Yep - I can’t stand them. Buying a car should be a pleasant experience...

[shwza]

I have been in 3 different Ford dealers to discuss the "new" tradie dual cab Ranger. No dealership will show me one and the salesman seems to filibuster around offering opportunities to "secure" one with a deposit sight unseen, or a different model on special, or a demo. I don't believe Ford even have any models and is a buildup from basic model , which they deny. They can't understand my reasoning and I told one woman that it wasn't the way I do business and she said she felt sorry for me and they weren't going to change the way they did business..

They have to take the Mazda badges off and put the big grill on them

[Grumbles]

I simply loath car salesmen.
.........Yep - I can’t stand them. Buying a car should be a pleasant experience...

I hear you loud and clear. I am currently trying to buy a new car and have encountered arrogance and indifference.
At the moment all buying plans are on hold. I'm over them.

It's very different to when I bought a Wrangler some years ago. It was a fantastic experience. The sales guy guided me around his normal test route in a demo. I drove on slow and fast bitumen and on dirt roads then High range 4WD and Low range 4WD. The low range bit was quite demanding. In total a one hour test drive. His sales success rate was an unsurprising 80%. The let down was he lied abominably about the service costs.

[ramblingboy42]

I forgot Mazda.....I thought they split from Ford.

[shwza]

I forgot Mazda.....I thought they split from Ford.

I'm pretty sure the ranger is still a BT50. It used to be the courier then changed to ranger.

[Tombie]

I forgot Mazda.....I thought they split from Ford.

Pretty sure it’s completely different now. Read something last year they were no longer platform sharing.

3.0 engine is certainly not the Ford offering.

[MickInTheMud]

BT50 in now a rebadged Isuzu D Max.

[shwza]

BT50 in now a rebadged Isuzu D Max.

For some reason I cannot see a D Max and not think it's a reference to a massive phallus.

[gromit]

I'm pretty sure the ranger is still a BT50. It used to be the courier then changed to ranger.

Maybe the other way around.
Ranger designed locally by Ford but made in Thailand, same factory made the older BT50. Joint venture between Ford & Mazda for some years.

Mazda: Production facility in Thailand, AutoAlliance (Thailand), celebrates its 25th anniversary | Automotive World (https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/mazda-production-facility-in-thailand-autoalliance-thailand-celebrates-its-25th-anniversary/)


Colin

[SpudHeadTed]

…and apparently the next VW Amarok will be a rebadged Ford Ranger.

Interesting move by VW considering all the development that went into the Amarok. Not enough sales? IMO the Amarok was a better vehicle than the Ranger.

…although the 2.2 Ranger does have a Defender engine 😇.

[ramblingboy42]

…and apparently the next VW Amarok will be a rebadged Ford Ranger.

Interesting move by VW considering all the development that went into the Amarok. Not enough sales? IMO the Amarok was a better vehicle than the Ranger.

…although the 2.2 Ranger does have a Defender engine 😇.

2.2 never belonged to the defender, thats why they give so many problems

problem free in my ranger.

[gromit]

…and apparently the next VW Amarok will be a rebadged Ford Ranger.


New Volkswagen Amarok due 2022, will have unique look but Ford engines | CarAdvice (https://www.caradvice.com.au/856623/new-volkswagen-amarok-due-2022-will-have-unique-look-but-ford-engines/)


Colin

[SpudHeadTed]

2.2 never belonged to the defender, thats why they give so many problems

problem free in my ranger.

What have the problems been with 2.2 in Defender?

[ramblingboy42]

read the forums

[RANDLOVER]

2.2 never belonged to the defender, thats why they give so many problems

problem free in my ranger.

Really? both the 2.2 and 2.4 are Ford Duratorq engines, they used the 2.2 to meet even more stringent emission standards EURO5, IIRC. The 2.2 was used in many vehicles besides Ranger and Defender, like Transits, Mondeos, Jags, Everest, BT-50, Citroën and Peugeot, among others. Defenders have also had the TD5 and Tdi (200 & 300) and the beauty of them is lots of different motors can be fitted to them like Perkins, Cummins, Mercedes, LS1, etc.

[ozscott]

Defenders had V8's from the factory too....nice.

Cheers

[SpudHeadTed]

read the forums

2.2 looks relatively problem free in Defenders to me.

[SpudHeadTed]

Back to OP ...if not a Defender :) ...If I wanted a car, I'd buy a Subaru.

[scarry]

2.2 looks relatively problem free in Defenders to me.

Unlike the rest of the vehicle[wink11]

[Rextheute]

Outback , my wife has one - every day to Bendigo and back from Romsey .

quiet , ,smooth , economical , comfortable - came out out a Xc 70 with just under 300,000km on it .(8 yrs old )

I think the servicing is over the top - but no problems in 65,000km - it’s just gone 2 yrs old .

Will tow up to the limit , have a friend who gets them as company cars - tows camper trailer around 1550 kg - no problem - she drives like stolen ... no issues that I am aware of , gets a new on every 100,000 or 3 yrs .

Have a chat to Innes Motors - they were the best to deal with of all the Melbourne Dealers .

contact if you want more info .

[Homestar]

So unless it drives horribly the Outback is going to be the pick. Lots of walking around dealers trying to dodge ****wit salesman looking over some other options but the Subi stands out for me.

Waiting on a few quotes now from different dealers to start the ball rolling and then I’ll start haggling with each. Have booked a test drive from home so I don’t have to go into the dealers. I can do all the haggling by phone and email - I’ll let you know what I can squeeze them down to.

[DiscoMick]

Outback a good choice. Friends love theirs.
Mitsubishi Outlander - son has done the comparison and this is his choice.
Ford Everest - basically a more comfortable Ranger wagon. What's not to like?
LR Disco Sport - they have a good reputation in Europe.

[ozscott]

So unless it drives horribly the Outback is going to be the pick. Lots of waking and kind dealers trying to dodge ****wit salesman looking over some other options but the Subi stands out for me.

Waiting on a few quotes now from different dealers to start the ball rolling and then I’ll start haggling with each. Have booked a test drive from home so I don’t have to go into the dealers. I can do all the haggling by phone and email - I’ll let you know what I can squeeze them down to.Nice mate. Good vehicle. It can do light tracks and is great on corrugated dirt etc. Need to not miss the oil changes with the boxers but if looked after they go and go. Subis are well built. Cheers

[Tombie]

Got to love a Japanese Volksy [emoji41]

[Homestar]

Outback a good choice. Friends love theirs.
Mitsubishi Outlander - son has done the comparison and this is his choice.
Ford Everest - basically a more comfortable Ranger wagon. What's not to like?
LR Disco Sport - they have a good reputation in Europe.

Looked at the Outlander, liked the Subi interior better but can see why someone would buy one.
Ford Everest - Um, everything’s not to like - Fords abuse and outright contempt for their customers mostly though
Disco Sport - not a chance - I can’t even tell one apart from all the other mid sized offerings that LR do. Also way too much for what you get IMO.

[Homestar]

Nice mate. Good vehicle. It can do light tracks and is great on corrugated dirt etc. Need to not miss the oil changes with the boxers but if looked after they go and go. Subis are well built. Cheers

Do a lot of dirt road driving so looking forward to having AWD again for this. Doesn’t need to do any tracks as the Rangie or 101 can fill in the gaps there. 👍

[Tins]

Got to love a Japanese Volksy [emoji41]

Until you have to tackle the CV/wheel bearing issue. But that will probably not be for some time.

Had a lot to do with Subis over the journey. Usually brilliant.

[Homestar]

Until you have to tackle the CV/wheel bearing issue. But that will probably not be for some time.

Had a lot to do with Subis over the journey. Usually brilliant.

Done them on plenty of Subarus - first one is tricky but easy enough after that. I’ll be flipping this one in 3 years so shouldn’t have to worry about that. Don’t want a car I even have to touch in the time I’ll have it. Plan is to turn them over every 3 years/150,000KM.

[SpudHeadTed]

Done them on plenty of Subarus - first one is tricky but easy enough after that. I’ll be flipping this one in 3 years so shouldn’t have to worry about that. Don’t want a car I even have to touch in the time I’ll have it. Plan is to turn them over every 3 years/150,000KM.

Great reason to buy a car not a Defender! …not so easy to flip IME [bigrolf]
Hopefully you won’t form an irrational attachment to your new Subi. [bigwhistle]

[Homestar]

Hopefully you won’t form an irrational attachment to your new Subi. [bigwhistle]

No, it will be a work vehicle and have a 3 year life span with me regardless. My current work vehicle is company supplied and replaced every 5 years - they are pretty much scrap by that time so 3 years is what I'll be aiming at.

[gromit]

Done them on plenty of Subarus - first one is tricky but easy enough after that. I’ll be flipping this one in 3 years so shouldn’t have to worry about that. Don’t want a car I even have to touch in the time I’ll have it. Plan is to turn them over every 3 years/150,000KM.

Are the Scoobydoo prices still 'controlled' in Melbourne ?

A few years ago there were complaints about not being able to negotiate a price in Melbourne and the dealer trade in was low. A mate purchased one from Bendigo and the dealer met him in the Western Suburbs and took his trade-in back to Bendigo. Saved quite a few G's at the time.

May have changed, this was some years back.


Colin

[gromit]

Ford Everest - Um, everything’s not to like - Fords abuse and outright contempt for their customers mostly though


Just went back and read this comment.

Problem is every dealer is different so I wouldn't blame Ford themselves, it comes down to the local dealer, how they deal with you and how you deal with them.
I moved to another dealer at one point because the Service Rep, or whatever they call the guy that greets you, was a knob. Next dealer was worse so went back to the first and found they'd sacked the knob because he was losing them business.

Plain sailing since then, mostly routine servicing, a couple of warranty items (no arguments) and lots of bushes (it is a Territory after all).

They caused a few problems on the wife's car but I got them to fix at their cost.
TDV6 HP fuel pump pulley problem (not Land Rover) (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/262119-tdv6-hp-fuel-pump-pulley-problem-not-land-rover.html)

One of the reasons I might stay with Ford is that I've 'trained' the dealer Service Dept., switching brands could mean re-training a new dealer.
My only dislike with the Everest is the price.


Colin

[Homestar]

Waiting on pricing so will let you know - also getting pricing through other sources other than the dealers.

Regarding Ford - I wasn’t speaking so much about individual dealers but their overall company policy of ‘**** every customer as much as possible’ - although it probably has a different name at the corporate head office. Ford have consistently abused their customers for years and are known as one of the worst OEM’s in this regard.

Remember the Power**** transmission? Dealers were told to lie to customers about the known issues with these. Think that’s a thing of the past - same deal with the previous Ranger gearbox - known to be too weak for the job but Ford outright denied this at a head office level.

We have around 30 of this model Ranger in the fleet - over half have **** gearboxes now and Ford claim every time it is driver abuse or overloading.

While some dealers are worse than others, they still all have to tow the line and pass on the BS that Ford hand down to them - the dealers deny warranty claims because they know that Ford will deny the dealers the same claim - legit or not.

No way I’d buy one while my arse points to the ground.

[scarry]

Waiting on pricing so will let you know - also getting pricing through other sources other than the dealers.

Regarding Ford - I wasn’t speaking so much about individual dealers but their overall company policy of ‘**** every customer as much as possible’ - although it probably has a different name at the corporate head office. Ford have consistently abused their customers for years and are known as one of the worst OEM’s in this regard.

Remember the Power**** transmission? Dealers were told to lie to customers about the known issues with these. Think that’s a thing of the past - same deal with the previous Ranger gearbox - known to be too weak for the job but Ford outright denied this at a head office level.

We have around 30 of this model Ranger in the fleet - over half have shot gearboxes now and Ford claim every time it is driver abuse or overloading.

While some dealers are worse than others, they still all have to tow the line and pass on the BS that Ford hand down to them - the dealers deny warranty claims because they know that Ford will deny the dealers the same claim - legit or not.

No way I’d buy one while my arse points to the ground.

And a few years back they received one of the biggest fines ever issued in Aus,at the time, to a vehicle manufacturer.

The recent VW fine is larger, though.

[SpudHeadTed]

…they are pretty much scrap by that time so 3 years is what I'll be aiming at.

Geez …maybe you should get a 2015 Defender afterall! and keep it for 30+ years. [bigwhistle]

[gromit]

No way I’d buy one while my arse points to the ground.

I do remember the dual clutch gearbox problems, wasn't aware of Ranger problems, is that the 6R80 box ?

Must be lucky, 3 Terri's without major issues just the known diff & suspension bushes that need regular replacement.
First had the dodgy ball joints in the front suspension, was getting them replaced under warranty at 5 + years. Fixed with the next model.


Colin

[Homestar]

Not sure on the gearbox designation but the 6 speed Rangers - they are now a 10 speed I think. There have been 1000’s of failures of these boxes and they are a complete lemon and known issue but Ford have washed their hands of any responsibility.

[Vern]

Not sure on the gearbox designation but the 6 speed Rangers - they are now a 10 speed I think. There have been 1000’s of failures of these boxes and they are a complete lemon and known issue but Ford have washed their hands of any responsibility.I find it odd that the 6r80 is a known lemon in the ranger, but in the US, its the box to have. No known issues, can be tuned for 1000hp with no mods. Mist be a petrol vs diesel version thing

[Tins]

but Ford have washed their hands of any responsibility.

Ford recalled about 20,000 Rangers and Everests last year to fix the issue with the 10 speed. As of June 2020 they were saying they had dealt with more than 60%. Seems to me that in fact they were accepting responsibility. All cars have issues. Just google HiLux DPF.
Still, I reckon you'll be happy with the Subi.

[Homestar]

Was talking about the 6 speed trans - they moved away from it to the 10 speed and left customers high and dry that had issues with these - we've had heaps crap themselves - even when they were in warranty and the lease company told us they have never been covered and Ford refused to admit there was an issue with them.

[DiscoMick]

Daughter bought a Ranger and learnt a few things.
The 3.2 can have an oil leak issue at the back of the engine or from the timing chain cover.
I think the 10-speed auto is used with the 2.0 turbo while the 6 speed comes with the 3.2.

Also, I can't remember if you mentioned the Mazda CX-5, but it's comparable to some other vehicles you've listed. I'd favour an AWD TD. Excellent quality, drives nicely, very popular.

Was talking about the 6 speed trans - they moved away from it to the 10 speed and left customers high and dry that had issues with these - we've had heaps crap themselves - even when they were in warranty and the lease company told us they have never been covered and Ford refused to admit there was an issue with them.

[ramblingboy42]

I thought the 6 speed box was an M86?

I think the box is ok , but selectors are a pos.

[Vern]

I thought the 6 speed box was an M86?

I think the box is ok , but selectors are a pos.6 speed auto is a 6r80

[ramblingboy42]

yes sorry, I wasn't paying full attention , I was calling out the manual 6speed.

[Grumbles]

Waiting on pricing so will let you know - also getting pricing through other sources other than the dealers.

.
Re the dealers. What's the wait time for a response before it's deemed too and they are scrubbed from the buying list?

[Homestar]

Re the dealers. What's the wait time for a response before it's deemed too and they are scrubbed from the buying list?

If they can't get me a written quote in 2 days they obviously don't want my money. For $50K - I'd have a quote to the customer within an hour of getting the request - I wouldn't expect my customers to wait days for a simple quote - I'd never win any work - so I won't wait longer either.

Just today I've quoted 3 customers - 1 job for $198K, 1 for $162K and 1 for $12K - all far more complicated than a car and they all got their quotes within an hour of contact - with a follow up phone call to ensure they had it and it covered what they were after. I still have to make other calls, do site visits and do other paperwork in between as well, but I believe getting the info to the customer quickly and efficiently makes a big difference to how you and the company are perceived and it puts me in much better stead when trying to win the job. I treat people like I like to be treated, but maybe I have slightly higher expectations than some?

[scarry]

Same here,we get our quotes out same day or two days max normally.
Although the last one I did which was a 7 figure sum did take two weeks.[bighmmm]

When I bought the last work ute,after two phone calls and over a week,couldn’t get a price out of Ford.
So that was the end of them.

Mazda had a price to us next day,Tojo didn’t have the model we wanted for at least six months,so we ended up with the Mazda.
The Mazda suited us better than all of them,due to tray size,etc.
But having had another Mazda ute for the last three yrs,it just doesn’t have the quality,fit and finish,reliability as the Tojo vans.

[Grumbles]

If they can't get me a written quote in 2 days they obviously don't want my money.

Thanks for that. You and Scarry have similar operating practices to myself. I've asked one multi franchise dealer to email me a couple of specific interior pictures. One week later they telephoned - its too hard so come in and look for myself. Yeah right - 200 km round trip. Then I emailed same dealer for a price and availability with intention to buy. Nothing! That was 6 weeks ago.

I also emailed a different dealer for a price on two cars last Thursday - heard nothing so far..

I just don't get it. 2 cars - say a tad over $100G.....??????:thumbsdown: