Just how much better is a Landy than a Toyota Troopy?

[roadkill]

I know its a contentious issue but where are Landys stronger mechanically?

other older models of the same time frame are interesting as they both have competed for military contracts for many years

What other features does a landrover have against the Landcruiers troop carriers?

i think they are pretty much the only two fourbys that could even be considsered in the same league

.....this should be interesting

[one_iota]

I know its a contentious issue but where are Landys stronger mechanically?

other older models of the same time frame are interesting as they both have competed for military contracts for many years

What other features does a landrover have against the Landcruiers troop carriers?

i think they are pretty much the only two fourbys that could even be considsered in the same league

.....this should be interesting

OK
my twopence worth:

Defender: Constant 4wd with CDL and coil springs alround
Troopie: Lock the front hubs and leaf springs on the rear.

[weeds]

landcruiser rear leaf springs???

when the 110 was introduced into the army the troopie had front leafs as well,

no competition

i'm not sure that land rover are stronger, i think the 110 is ahead of the troopis because of there off road ability, aluminium body and as mentioned before constant 4wd with cdl

i had an 82 cruiser trayback and never broke or replace any of the driveline, i have certainly replaced bits and pieces of my 110 driveline

my 110 wiith open diffs gets a whole lot more place than my cruiser ever did

long live the defender

[loanrangie]

Now if lr could combine the ability of the defender with the quality engineering and reliability of the toyo troopy we would have a winner. They may be in the same market space but are worlds apart.

[Frenchie]

I have driven both quite a bit on and off road as we use Troopies in the SES.

First thing we do with our SES Troopies is have the rear springs replaced. Put a decent trailer on and a few people in the back and the standard springs have the front end pointing skyward. Only trouble is that unladen they now have a terrible ride.

Handling of the Troopie on the road is woeful, they define the word understeer, to the point of being dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced driver.

Seats are also woeful. I get backache just looking at them. Drivers footwell is cramped with nowhere to put your feet if they're not on the pedals.

1HZ is a good motor off road, particularly in low range, however it is gutless on the road, especially when towing. Any sort of hill will have you changing down. A hill which I tow a laden horse float up in the Defender in 4th gear at 70kmh will have the Troopie in 2nd gear and 30kmh with a similar load.

Have a look at the chassis on a Troopie, they are nowhere near as solid as the Defender.

Newer Tojos are starting to have drivetrain issues as Toyota are putting substandard components in, older ones are stronger.

Off road? Well I have always been surprised at just how far the Troopies will go. The main limiting factor is wheel travel, where a Defender will beat them every time, and of course TC helps as well. They are also top heavy, easy to roll if you're not careful.

For sheer interior space you can't beat a Troopie.

Overall I think they are a great vehicle, most of the negatives I have mentioned are minor, and if I wasn't a one eyed LR fanatic I would probably own one.

[mark2]

Now if lr could combine the ability of the defender with the quality engineering and reliability of the toyo troopy we would have a winner. They may be in the same market space but are worlds apart.


Agree completely.

Defender has alum body, coil springs and good looks going for it. Not much else if you only listen to your head, listen to your heart and things might be different.

As to chassis size, yes Defender chassis is deeper, it has to be because the steel is a LOT thinner (and more prone to rust than a Toyota chassis)

[JDNSW]

My experience with Landcruisers is somewhat dated - I have not used them to any extent for nearly forty years - then their major advantage over the Landrover was power to weight ratio - they had no advantage in quality or engineering - semifloating rear axle, only a three speed gearbox, frequent electrical problems, broken wheel studs, collapsing seats, carburetter problems (no diesel available). The FJ45V station wagon that was my company car at the time had the worst ride of any vehicle I have ever travelled in - and in a working environment (Simpson Desert) the body just fell to pieces. And despite the fact that an FJ40 soft top with the windscreen down was capable of topping 100mph, the handling was truly appalling (and rapidly deteriorated in use due to the awful engineering of the steering linkage), even by the standards of Series Landrovers.

But what Toyota have done since then is to improve rapidly (at least until fairly recently) in response to user complaints, something Landrover have never really done except in the very early Series 1 days. By the time Landrover went to coils in 1983, they had lost almost the entire Australian market to Toyota's improved quality and better power weight ratio. Although the 110 has mostly been ahead of the Landcruiser on both on and offroad performance, it has made little inroads if any on the Landcruiser market, largely because Landrover have been unable or unwilling to put in the needed effort - Toyota has a vastly better dealer network, which they share with one of the best selling ranges of cars and trucks in the country. At least in theory, Landrover could now make use of the Ford network, but they show little interest in doing so. Although my local Landrover dealer is the Ford dealer, they know little about Landrovers, stock virtually no parts, and appear to care even less (and even when they do try to care they get no help from Landrover; I can get parts quicker, more accurately and cheaper (genuine) from non-franchised Landrover specialists) - you would not find a Toyota dealer with this attitude!
John

[Bully]

I had a company Crusier for 10 yrs (2 cruisers in that time)and on both of those we had to change the rear springs because when Toyota changed from the 75 to the 79 series(Ithink I got them right)The rear leafs where made longer and where nothing short of cheap crap.
Although I was carrying around 1ton in weight we had to becareful of gearboxes as well as they were prone to flogging out trying to pull the weight of the start.
The other thing we had to do was change the rims and tryes to wide ones to compansate for body roll with that kind of weight.

Compare all this to a bloke I saw up near Wiluna wa,had a defender ute with more weight and no modification to the Landy at all .Everything was standard and had it for just over six months with no problem at all.


p.s.When I asked the state manager to change to the Defender,I got a swift kick in the ass.Then found out he was getting a kick back from Toyota for buying 10 odd of them a year.

So in my personal experince the only good thing that Toyota has going for it is if you breakdown theres heaps of them around for spare parts:twisted:

[p38arover]

p.s.When I asked the state manager to change to the Defender,I got a swift kick in the ass.Then found out he was getting a kick back from Toyota for buying 10 odd of them a year.

That's called corruption. :mad:

Ron

[Reads90]

The best thing in my mind is that you can get a defender with more than 2 doors.

[JDNSW]

The best thing in my mind is that you can get a defender with more than 2 doors.

Yes, and this may partly explain why it seems most Defender sales today are wagons, whereas troopies seem to be not selling too well, but tray tops are still the big sellers.
John

[Captain_Rightfoot]

The best thing in my mind is that you can get a defender with more than 2 doors.
Some friends of ours suggested we get a troopy, but with kids that really was the end of the argument before anything else needed to be considered. Plus the car was nearly 20k CHEAPER....:cool: :cool:

[Phoenix]

There used to be a great comparison of the two in an online version of Overlander. It's not online anymore, but this is the text of it.


Landrover Defender Xtreme vs Toyota TroopCarrier RV

Serious 4WDs come in many forms but few approach the true meaning of the term better than the Toyota TroopCarrier and Land Rover Defender. These vehicles epitomise the traditional, rugged, minimal-frills 4WD and are a popular choice among buyers who value function over form and favour off-road ability and space ahead of plush interiors and a fancy stereo system.

While the Toyota and Land Rover have much in common, there are marked differences in how the two vehicles go about fulfilling their intended purpose. To discover their individual strengths and weaknesses, Overlander put them through a tough four-day test involving everything from freeways to forest tracks to beach driving. The pair were also used as packhorses for camping gear, surfboards and other paraphernalia.

Send In The Troops
Toyota's long-serving TroopCarrier received a major update for 2000 with the release of the 78 Series. Although it looks virtually identical to the 75 Series that preceded it, the new Troopie boasts several important new features. These include a 20mm wider track front and rear, coil-spring suspension at the front with the existing live axle, redesigned rear suspension with longer leaf springs, better brakes and five-stud wheels.

The TroopCarrier comes in three-, six- and 11-seat versions with a choice of petrol or diesel engines, as well as a diesel-only six-seat RV. We chose the $51,490 RV, which has a snorkel as standard (previously a $231 option) plus chrome gutter drip moulds and a high-mount brake light. Finished in a distinctive fire-engine red, our vehicle also had airconditioning ($2477) and front and rear diff locks ($2735), taking the price as tested to $56,702 plus ORC.

Overlander has covered the details of the 78 Series range and the Troopie RV in previous issues (December 1999 for the 78 Series launch and April 2000 for the RV individual test) so we won't travel over the same ground here except to say the changes to the 78 Series Troopie have produced a vehicle that retains the tough practicality of the previous model and adds huge improvements in ride quality and handling.

Behind The Wheel
Although the Troopie leaves you in no doubt it is still a utilitarian vehicle, occupant comfort is nothing to complain about. The new front seats offer better padding on the base and back with improved lumbar support, thicker head restraints and greater fore/aft and recline adjustment. For long trips they're pretty good, giving acceptable comfort and support even when the going gets rough. Legroom is also a strong point, with plenty of space for tall front seat occupants to stretch out - unless you're sitting in the centre seat where the transmission hump makes things tight.

Rear seat passengers are also well catered for in terms of comfort and room, although not quite to the same extent as those up front. The front passenger seat slides and swings forward to give rear seat access - the system works well but is no substitute for the extra doors of the Defender.

Cabin noise is of a higher level than you would find in plusher wagons but not too intrusive, while the view through the upright windscreen is extensive with excellent vision over the military-style bonnet.

Cargo space is nothing short of cavernous. The RV offers 1.245m of load length with the rear seat in place, and even more when it is folded up. There are holes in the floor for tie-down hooks but no auxiliary power socket in the rear, which is an unfortunate omission. Instead, it's on the near-side front guard in the engine bay.

The barn-style rear doors open wide for easy loading and despite the Troopie's generous ground clearance, the cargo floor isn't too high. There's more storage space elsewhere in the cabin, with pockets in the front doors and a storage box under the dash.

The interior is finished in vinyl with cloth seat trims, Standard appointments include a tilt-adjustable steering column, a hand throttle, tachometer, intermittent front and rear wipers, central locking, and an AM/FM radio-cassette unit with four speakers.

On The Move
Heart and soul of the TroopCarrier RV is its 4.2-litre 1HZ naturally-aspirated six-cylinder diesel engine, which puts out 96kW at 3800rpm and 285Nm at 2200rpm. The unit received some fuel system and cooling upgrades in the transition to the 78 Series, and offers solid, useful power in both on- and off-road situations.

On the open road, the Troopie belies its truck-like appearance with a stable ride. The steering is power-assisted and has a well-weighted, light feel at the wheel, while the handling is surprisingly taut and predictable thanks to the coil front end. Stopping power is also plentiful with bigger brake discs all around and four-piston calipers at the front, however there is no ABS system available.

The engine pulls 2800rpm in top gear at 110km/h and needs a downshift for overtaking but this isn't a problem as the Troopie's five-speed transmission - taken from the 100 Series - is a sweet-shifting unit with a light clutch action. Also on the light side is the accelerator, meaning the hand throttle is an oft-used feature on slow tracks.

The coil-spring suspension at the front of the Troopie makes it a confidence-inspiring drive off-road, while still offering excellent (for this type of vehicle) occupant comfort and suspension travel. With plenty of ground clearance and approach and departure angles of 39° and 26° respectively, the Troopie is capable of tackling most off-road situations, however the leaf springs do sit low which can limit clearance in some situations.

The only place our Troopie struggled was in slick, muddy conditions where the narrow tyres filled up with gunk, severely reducing bite and available grip. Thanks to an errant tree stump, the Toyota became briefly bogged in one mudpatch that the Defender - with traction control working furiously - had sailed through. The Troopie got stuck before the driver could activate the diff locks but even these were of no help once the mud had taken over. The only way out was to perform a snatch recovery. With the Troopie having a pair of robust hooks at the front and a stout chassis member at the rear for securing tow lines, the extraction was conducted with no fuss.

Underbody protection is extensive with bash plates guarding the main and sub fuel tanks and transfer case. Water crossings are made easier with the inclusion of a snorkel air intake as standard, while the alternator and air cleaner are located high enough in the engine bay to stay out of most trouble. The underbonnet area has plenty of room for an auxiliary battery.

Strong Defence
Like the TroopCarrier, the Defender Xtreme evokes by name and nature images of traditional, military-style 4WDs and all the associated robustness and 'go-anywhere' ability these vehicles were famed for.

The Xtreme is also the top-of-the range Defender variant, bristling with high-tech equipment from the impressive Td5 turbo-diesel engine to ABS brakes, electronic traction control and a two-stage throttle.

With these features the Defender Xtreme has a retail price of $41,790. Our test vehicle was also equipped with airconditioning ($2500), taking the price as tested to $44,290.

Inside the Xtreme harks back to an earlier time. The dash and front cabin has a spartan layout that is both functional and a little confusing, and certainly not as easy to get comfortable with as the Toyota's more regular set-up. Old and new style gauges (but no tachometer) blend with a myriad of warning lights for the various vehicle systems, there's a plethora of air vents with old-fashioned sliding controls, efficient airconditioning and even flip-out external vents under the windscreen.

Features include an engine immobiliser, AM/FM radio-cassette unit, power steering, intermittent wipers, low fuel and fuel quality warning lights, a single courtesy light, rear window demister, rubber floor covering and plenty of storage space comprising underseat boxes, map pockets in the front seat backs, a central cubby box and glovebox. However, the Xtreme does without airbags, a hand throttle, auxiliary power socket or the now ubiquitous cupholders.

One area where the Xtreme fails is with its poor ergonomics. The view from the driver's position is good but not as extensive as from the Troopie, especially rearwards, while restricted leg and elbow room, limited seat adjustment and poorly-placed handbrake and gear levers conspire to make the front seat of the Defender an uncomfortable place to be. And the rear seat occupants don't fare much better, lacking even the headrests that front-seaters get, although at least they get their own set of doors.

The Defender boasts a large and useful cargo area which expands further when the rear seat is folded, although some space is lost thanks to the full-length wheel-arch boxes running down each side. Access is also compromised by the single rear door which is not a full-width design.

Externally, the Xtreme is a contemporary incarnation of the traditional and instantly recognisable Land Rover design, with boxy lines, round headlights and aluminium panelwork. The panels are fixed to a heavy-duty separate ladder chassis, which has a stiffened rear cross-member specifically designed to handle large towing loads. Completing the look are flexible guard flares, mudflaps and 16-inch alloy wheels wearing 235/85 BF Goodrich A/T tyres.

Rolling Out
If you can adjust to the crazy ergonomics, the Defender Xtreme is actually quite an enjoyable drive. The key is the excellent Td5 2.5-litre, five-cylinder, direct-injection turbocharged and intercooled diesel engine, which puts out 90kW at 4200rpm and 300Nm at 1950rpm.

The Td5 makes less power than the larger naturally-aspirated and indirectly-injected Toyota diesel but has more torque and gives it earlier in the rev range. Combine this with the Defender's lighter kerb weight (1977kg versus 2205kg) and the performance equation favours the Brit.

From the driver's seat, the motor is reasonably quiet and smooth - on par with the Toyota. The Land Rover's NVH levels are higher than the Troopie's with more wind noise and vibration evident in the cabin.

Swapping cogs on the five-speed transmission is more difficult thanks to the Xtreme's long, truck-like lever and notchy action. One of our crew grew to prefer the Xtreme, although I gave the Troopie top marks for ease of use in this area.

The handling department is where the Defender shines, with minimal body roll apparent and a real feeling of stability in the suspension. Coil springs on live axles all around contribute to the impressive handling, while the power steering is quite good although slightly lacking the easy precision of the TroopCarrier. Braking is good with strong, progressive stopping power aided by the well-modulated four-channel ABS system.

Off-road, the Defender is difficult not to love. Loads of ground clearance, excellent approach and departure angles (50° and 30°), full-time 4WD with a lockable centre diff, a flexible engine and good low-range reduction make it a supremely capable vehicle.

Electronic aids like traction control and the Fast Throttle Control (FTC) two-stage throttle are worthwhile for the improvements they make to driving ease. The FTC uses the Td5's 'drive-by-wire' system to give what is effectively a short-travel throttle in on-road situations and a long-travel throttle when low-range is selected for better control at low speeds in rough terrain.

With open front and rear diffs, the traction control comes in handy in minimum-grip situations - for example, the Xtreme made short and relatively easy work of the mud that claimed the TroopCarrier, although it must be said that the Toyota probably would have got through the muck without trouble had the diff locks been activated sooner rather than later.
The Defender is well-equipped for off-roading with hefty chassis rails and bash plates protecting the underbody, an alternator mounted high in the rear of the engine bay and breather extensions on the gearbox and diffs. However, limited space means an auxiliary battery would be hard to fit.

Debriefing
If you're in the market for a functional, tough, practical 4WD for serious hauling and off-road touring duties, both the TroopCarrier RV and the Defender Xtreme have much to commend them.

The Land Rover is a clear winner on price, being several thousand dollars cheaper than the Toyota, however the Troopie has the edge in ease of use due to its superior ergonomics, cabin comfort and luggage capacity. That said though, the Land Rover does have that crucial extra set of doors. It also tends to grow on you, with more than one driver on our trip warming to the British beast by the end of the test.

Off-road, there's not a lot to separate them. The Toyota may be a part-time 4WD and the Land Rover full-time but they're both willing and able when it comes time to go off the beaten track. If anything, the Defender gains some advantage by having traction control as standard - the diff locks on the Toyota are very useful but you do have to shell out extra for them.

As a day-to-day proposition, I'd go for the TroopCarrier simply because it is a more pleasant and relaxing vehicle to drive in different situations. There's no doubt the Defender has a certain charm, however I'm not sure I'd be prepared to put up with things like the driving position on a long-term basis.

Story by Peter Callaghan, Photos by Kevin Ling, Hugh McLeod & Peter Pap


Toyota LandCruiser TroopCarrier RV

Price as tested: $56,702
Number of Seats: 6
Average Fuel Consumption: 12.8L/100km
Range*: 1361km
Best Points: Rugged and robust, luggage space; off-road ability
Worst Points: Lack of extra side doors
*Range estimate based on fuel tank capacity, test average fuel consumption and a 50km safety margin.

Land Rover Defender Xtreme

Price as tested: $44,290
Number of Seats: 5
Average Fuel Consumption: 10.3L/100km
Range*: 678km
Best Points: Engine, off-road ability, handling, luggage space
Worst Points: Cabin ergonomics, gearshift
*Range estimate based on fuel tank capacity, test average fuel consumption and a 50km safety margin.

[Ace]

I think the price is a major factor, with the 10k you save you can put maxis all round and diff locks and the troopy wouldnt touch it off road, and the majority of your weak driveline issues are elimiated aswell. Matt

[rangieman]

well one of the main reasons why the army choose the defender is it is the only 4x4 that will and can be be configured for their requierments

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I think the price is a major factor, with the 10k you save you can put maxis all round and diff locks and the troopy wouldnt touch it off road, and the majority of your weak driveline issues are elimiated aswell. Matt
Hmmm... the turbo diesel 5 seater is actually 59990 whereas the defender is actually 47995. However I think AC is optional on the troopy, remote entry and alarm come std on the fender as do alloys, and you can't get TC at any price. And it's 2 doors short. Then there is the issue of leaf rear and independent front :rolleyes: I think the troopy is very expensive for what it is...

[CraigE]

I have to say as uncomfortable as a Defender can be, as an overall package it is heaps better than the Toyota troopy or ute. The troopy is way overpriced for what you get. The Defender in my opinion is more comfortable and a better 4x4. The Defender also has 4 doors. The only advantage of the troopy is that there are a lot around for spares. The troopy is also very easy to roll, just ask a friend of mine. Coil springs vs leaf, there is no comparisson. I have spent a lot of time in Toyota Crruiser Utes, troopy's, ambulances and Hilux's and they are the worst 4x4s on the market. The only good troopy's were the real old shape like my old man had.
:D

[bluetongue]

It comes down to one simple question....

.... Do troopy drivers wave to other troopy drivers ?!!




... Scott

[roadkill]

Many of these comments i can understand.
I have been looking after a large fleet of troopys, and some of the new features i find a bit alarming for 4wd use, like the later model one we had that turned out to have aluminuim/alloy? shafts in them......

It makes you wonder, but all jokes aside, the older models of both are still one the road in great numbers, an both have thier quirks, i suppose if you understand them enough, you can make them work for you

I think a lot of the bad points for servicing rovers are the ugly places they put some of the parts, and the prices of the "gin-u wine spares "...toyos do have pretty cheap spares that make you want to change them more regularly!

[rovercare]

CraigE no offence but you say some silly stuff mate, Troopy's have live axle coil front NOT independant, "easy to roll" yea if your a moron and don't drive accordingly

Roadkill, alooy tailshafts are used in touring cars and alot of race applications, cop cars aswell even the divvies, but the must be crap

And as for not being able to get traction control, who would of bought factory difflockd on there defender, cause you can get them on your TOJO

I'am by no means a TOJO man BUT please get your facts right before critiscising, one-eyed rover fans are just as bad as one-eyed TOJO fans without the relevant information

[CraigE]

CraigE no offence but you say some silly stuff mate, Troopy's have live axle coil front NOT independant, "easy to roll" yea if your a moron and don't drive accordingly



Rovacare,
I never mentioned anything about live or independent suspension, as far as I was aware the new troopy has front coil and rear leaf (has been about 3 years since I tested a new one) so do not get personal and call me silly. Read the right post and get the facts right first. It was another post that mentioned independant suspension, not mine.All of ours and most around here are leaf sprung and granted most are over 4 years old. Both coils and leaf can be live axles. Independent like on the 100series higher spec models is something I would stay away from for regular off road use.I have driven these things extensively in the mining industry and in my opinion only they are buckets of crap. Even compared to a Defeneder. I find the Defender a lot more stable on the road and even considered a troopy before buying the fender until I test drove a newbie and found the centre of gravity woeful for a new 4x4. The utes are slightly better than the troopy but not by much. I can tell you this from experience first hand seeing them regularly rolled around the gold fields of WA. Seldom see 100series or Nissans rolled, though any car can roll. And yes there are larger numbers of these vehicles in the mining industry, but still a disproportionate number of roll overs. I just do not think they handle that well. I have never rolled one because I have grown up driving these type of vehicles and am more than aware of their high centre of gravity. There are a lot of people that are not though and it can be a trap.
If you really want to come on the forum and start making statements about peoples personal opinions then you do not belong here. Good discussion yes, attacks on people character no.
I am not the one who is silly.
:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:

[DeeJay]

Originally Posted by rovercare
That would be one of the sillier things i've read in a while Deejay, the fact is, capacity and economy is a balance, to small you'll labour and suck juice, to big and your feeding a large motor for nothing unless you adjust your gearing etc. A 4.2 is still small and no rocket and also a fuel guzzler, but still a much better motor than a 3.5 (like that's hard) and its always nice to have a few horsies to spare, My 5l EFI windsor i had in my rangie 3speed auto 35's used less fuel than a mates 3.9l disco with 33's and a 4 speed transmission with power to spare over the 3.9.

Craig E.
Dont be too offended he said the same in a reply to me.
Cheers,
David

[Reads90]

I have not driven a Toyota troppie , but was told by Alice springs Polcie who have a 130 on their fleet. That the 130 was loads more comfortable to drive than the troppie.
As a Defender driver i found this amazing, as even though i love the defender , i have to say its not the most comfy truck in the world.
so from that the toyota must be really really bad

[DeeJay]

I have not driven a Toyota troppie , but was told by Alice springs Polcie who have a 130 on their fleet. That the 130 was loads more comfortable to drive than the troppie.
As a Defender driver i found this amazing, as even though i love the defender , i have to say its not the most comfy truck in the world.
so from that the toyota must be really really bad

I recall the motoring press bagging the 130 but then were advised by Rover to put in half a ton or so. The press then said it transformed the ride.:angel:

[abaddonxi]

I recall the motoring press bagging the 130 but then were advised by Rover to put in half a ton or so. The press then said it transformed the ride.:angel:

I knew there was a good reason why I carry a spare axle in the back.

:D:D:D

Cheers
Simon

[damo]

I have driven numerous troopies in the ADF and all have been dissapointing. Ride is not as it should be, power is only good in low range, seating is only comfortable in the latest models and they are failing faster. We are trying to get F trucks to replace ours as they can't cope with towing a 2.5 ton boat and trailer. They are also dangerous when towing, with the **** sagging and realy light steering, we only put two guys and a limited amount of gear in them. We cant's pass other vehicles safely on the highway as there isn't the power to acellerate and fit into gaps. Loaded trucks overtake us up-hill!
Telstra is moving to Landrovers and Patrols for it's remote service vehicles, the 'cruisers can't hack it.
Toyota has been charging too much for too little for too long.

[Omaroo]

Telstra is moving to Landrovers and Patrols for it's remote service vehicles, the 'cruisers can't hack it.
Interesting. What can't the LandCruisers hack? Can this be substantiated easily? Apart from word-of-mouth, is there any documented way you know of to prove this? Even though I'd love to see Telstra running around in Defenders, I just can't see how Toyota could sit there and let it happen as they have so much sway in government circles, or so I've heard.

[crump]

Rovacare,
I never mentioned anything about live or independent suspension, as far as I was aware the new troopy has front coil and rear leaf (has been about 3 years since I tested a new one) so do not get personal and call me silly. Read the right post and get the facts right first. It was another post that mentioned independant suspension, not mine.All of ours and most around here are leaf sprung and granted most are over 4 years old. Both coils and leaf can be live axles. Independent like on the 100series higher spec models is something I would stay away from for regular off road use.I have driven these things extensively in the mining industry and in my opinion only they are buckets of crap. Even compared to a Defeneder. I find the Defender a lot more stable on the road and even considered a troopy before buying the fender until I test drove a newbie and found the centre of gravity woeful for a new 4x4. The utes are slightly better than the troopy but not by much. I can tell you this from experience first hand seeing them regularly rolled around the gold fields of WA. Seldom see 100series or Nissans rolled, though any car can roll. And yes there are larger numbers of these vehicles in the mining industry, but still a disproportionate number of roll overs. I just do not think they handle that well. I have never rolled one because I have grown up driving these type of vehicles and am more than aware of their high centre of gravity. There are a lot of people that are not though and it can be a trap.
If you really want to come on the forum and start making statements about peoples personal opinions then you do not belong here. Good discussion yes, attacks on people character no.
I am not the one who is silly.
:censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:

Oh no, here we go again!:(

Ok, ok, I'll put my hand up, I'm the silly one!! It says so on the Jacket I got from Ace.:D (hang on, it hasnt turned up yet.):mad: :D :D

[damo]

Interesting. What can't the LandCruisers hack? Can this be substantiated easily? Apart from word-of-mouth, is there any documented way you know of to prove this? Even though I'd love to see Telstra running around in Defenders, I just can't see how Toyota could sit there and let it happen as they have so much sway in government circles, or so I've heard.

Landcruisers can no longer 'Hack' the tasks they have become legendary for.
They cannot regularily carry or tow heavy weights that are within factory limits. They have warranty caveats on drive train components. They have lost off road ability in favour of unitary construction methods, are now manufatured to cost as opposed to role, and are still damn expensive.

[Omaroo]

Landcruisers can no longer 'Hack' the tasks they have become legendary for.
They cannot regularily carry or tow heavy weights that are within factory limits. They have warranty caveats on drive train components. They have lost off road ability in favour of unitary construction methods, are now manufatured to cost as opposed to role, and are still damn expensive.

Yeah - I get all that, apart from unitary construction - which I didn't think had become part of the 75-series construction methods yet. Are you saying that Telstra is replacing 100-series machines, and not 75-series?

I was up in Lightning Ridge a few months ago, and came across a Telstra worker who had bogged their 75-series off the side of the road. I stopped and offered to help, to which he said a very big "thank you" as he had been shovelling for nearly an hour. I noticed that he had a 9000lb winch on the front and I asked him why he didn't use if to pull himself out earlier. There were plenty of trees near the side of the road to pull from too. His answer was that even though they had recovery gear on board (winch, snatch straps, etc, etc) they were NOT allowed to use any of it due to ridiculous OHS laws. His words, not mine.

He was glad a fully-equipped Land Rover came past that afternoon I'll bet.:)

Given that, are Telstra looking at updating 100-series vehicles to something more capable off the shelf - like a Defender? I suppose that if they had more capable vehicles to begin with, they could avoid more recovery procedures? Nice thought anyway....

[Maggot4x4]

My old Troopy, it was a good truck, but a long way from standard. It used to break CV's all the time :P
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2006/10/73.jpg

[damo]

Telstra hvae defenders up noprth and I have been seeing patrols in NSW. The 75 series is now as out of date as people say a defender is, what's more it's only in the past few years that the 75's have got coils. They all still use the opriginal 5 spd box which is crapping out with such regularity, it's now almost impossible to find a second-hand box for sale. Conisder that with the IFS being the only real mech difference between a 75 and 100, we have a 100 series at the unit with 12000km on the clock and a stuffed gearbox. The carrying capacity on the tray backs is also the lowest of the Cruiser, Patrol and Defender.

[Jamo]

Toyota sell more vehicles because of a better dealer support network, good advertising (both overt and subliminal) and a well developed system of kick-backs to fleet operators.

Btw wtf are we discussing this for anyway!! Doesn't emotional loyalty count for anything. Landrovers are the best becuase they just are!

[CraigE]

Oh no, here we go again!:(

Ok, ok, I'll put my hand up, I'm the silly one!!

Crump I would not say you are silly. I do not like personal inferences on any one for just having an opinion. Your opinion is yours and mine mine, does not make either one of us wrong or silly.
Part of the packaging of owning a Landie is the free dose of Alzheimers that comes in the console. Good excuse for denying all knowledge of past events.
:D :D
The main reason most big companies deal with Toyota is for the dealer network, ease of part availability, propoganda and great fleet prices. We have just purchased 2 x new Prados, fully kitted for $42k, try and compete with that. The price even amazed me. Could have got the 100 series for $46k but nobody likes them and the Prado had a lot extra and realistically not see much off road work anyway, just hauling rescue gear. New Troopy Ambo $70k fully fitted out. My vote was for the F truck but at $50k more not an option.

[CraigE]

Telstra is moving to Landrovers and Patrols for it's remote service vehicles, the 'cruisers can't hack it.
Toyota has been charging too much for too little for too long.

It seems to be the same over here in the West. Most Telstra vehicles are now Nissan Patrols in both ute and wagon configuration. I can not remember the last time I saw a Telstra Toyota. It seems Western Power etc is moving down the same path as well.
At the end of the day Toyotas are reasonable 4x4s, just not my taste or handling. They are most definately overpriced for private consumers, but hey so is the Disco now as well. Most 100 series owners I know are disappointed in their vehicles and would not buy another.
The Defender is the only vehicle I have owned where people stop you and ask you what they are like and to have a look. Most people comment on the shape and style and would have one if they were a bit better appointed inside. And this quite often comes from top of the line cruiser and patrol owners. The shape of the Fender is iconic and lots of people love the shape. Now if LR actually listened to what people wanted and had some decent propoganda, er I mean PR, there would be lots more Fenders on the road.
;)

[DEFENDERZOOK]

i wouldnt say iconic......

put simply.....land rover got it right the first time.....and stuck with it....
all the others are still trying to get it right.....you can always tell cos they keep changing every year......

[spudboy]

DZ: I reckon they ARE iconic! They are what leverages the rest of the LR range.

If they made them more comfortable and a teensy bit more reliable they would sell more. A lot more.

[damo]

Everyone is right about the iconic look of ther Defender. Many people I nknow would like a Landrover but the old hoodoo of perceived unreliability scares them off. Toymotor, as has been said before, was simply better marketed and supported in the bush, where the client base is.
This failure to market is still evident now. Landrover's marketing material is superb. Think of the impact of the new freelander promo on a cinema screen... you'd want to leave the movie and buy one straight away.
Why make a superb magazine promoting Landrovers to people who have already bought one? Get that sort of marketing out to Toymotor owners, show them how much they are missing out on. Why try to temp a Subaru, or X5 owner away with adventure when a high end 100 or Prado series costs the same. If you own an X5, you are just into the badge and not drawn by adventure.
I want the marketing job at LRA, they are screwing that puppy way too hard.

[George130]

Have to agree with the toyota fleet pricing. I know If I wen't new Toyota gives us the best lease discounts.

[Frenchie]

Part of the packaging of owning a Landie is the free dose of Alzheimers that comes in the console. Good excuse for denying all knowledge of past events.

Ain't that the truth! Blown head gasket? What's that? After this weekend I love my truck! :D

[Maggot4x4]

Have to agree with the toyota fleet pricing. I know If I wen't new Toyota gives us the best lease discounts.
And Holden for that matter, we pay less than 30k for Acclaims.

[rick130]

FWIW Telstra dumped all their remote area Defender 130's years ago, far too many cracked chassis and front diffs. They wre also destroying 79 Series Cruisers (front diffs in particular) and breaking the rear chassis on their Patrols. If you saw how they drove them you'd understand.
Nissan responded, beefed the chassis at the rear hangers where they were breaking and upgraded the suspension. The stripped spline in the GU g/box between 2000-01 was a QA issue and long since overcome.

Land Rover weren't interested in helping or responding to the issues at at all.

[VladTepes]

Oh thats sounds familiar.



However in relation to the original question:
Just how much better is a Landy than a Toyota Troopy?

The answer is 14 % better.






But then you have to realise that 72% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[Frenchie]

The other thing I forgot is the p-weak clutch they put in them. Take a Troopie in the sand and smell that burning clutch!

[dobbo]

How many 30+ year old troopies do you see driving around.


How many series do you see

(a lot more)

[damo]

FWIW Telstra dumped all their remote area Defender 130's years ago, far too many cracked chassis and front diffs. They wre also destroying 79 Series Cruisers (front diffs in particular) and breaking the rear chassis on their Patrols. If you saw how they drove them you'd understand.
Nissan responded, beefed the chassis at the rear hangers where they were breaking and upgraded the suspension. The stripped spline in the GU g/box between 2000-01 was a QA issue and long since overcome.

Land Rover weren't interested in helping or responding to the issues at at all.

That's the Landrover problem! In any other company, a managment team that ignores user feed back would be sacked. Then again, if Telstra were only buying a small qty, I can understand it.