Hawse fairlead- what material is best?

[POD]

I'm planning on swapping the wire rope on my rear winch for synthetic, already have synthetic on the front, and will replace both roller fairleads with hawse type. I'm planning on making the hawsers myself- just because I can.
I've had a discussion on a metalworking forum, mainly about best tool for rounding over the hawse slots, but of course all manner of opinions about everything have started to come out. Several people have postulated that the hawser is a wear item and should be made from soft material and that hard material will damage the rope.
My understanding of these things- based on very little- is that it is when a running surface like this gets damaged that it will then damage the rope that runs over it, so a harder-wearing material is better as it will stay smooth and not damage the rope.
Wondering if anyone has any good info on this? Most of the hawse fairleads on the market are aluminium but I suspect that is just because it is cheap to machine. I have seen a few steel ones and obviously they are more expensive but I'm intrigued as to whether there is any evidence as to which is better on the rope? I can punch out a couple of alumimium ones fairly easily, but I also have some 4140 steel here that would be much slower to machine but could then be surface hardened and probably last forever, but if the rope will suffer for it that would be a waste of time.

[W&KO]

Billet aluminum would be a good choice.

[101RRS]

Just buy them - they are cheap, work where what you make will be more expensive and maybe lead to a failure at the wrong time.

[W&KO]

Just buy them - they are cheap, work where what you make will be more expensive and maybe lead to a failure at the wrong time.

I had a custom one made by Nugget as I have a PRO winch which has a wider drum than your standard electric winch.

While I was collecting Nugget showed me an off the shelf one, it was a cast version which had failed. Who know what material it was made from.

I certainly feel more comfortable with one made from a solid piece of ally from a known source.

[POD]

I had a custom one made by Nugget as I have a PRO winch which has a wider drum than your standard electric winch.

While I was collecting Nugget showed me an off the shelf one, it was a cast version which had failed. Who know what material it was made from.

I certainly feel more comfortable with one made from a solid piece of ally from a known source.

What was the failure? I assume it had broken in the middle or similar?

[W&KO]

What was the failure? I assume it had broken in the middle or similar?

Yes, from memory it was towards the middle through the bottom section.

[loanrangie]

Cast iron is for steel cable , alloy for synthetic.

[POD]

Cast iron is for steel cable , alloy for synthetic.

Are you able to unpack that statement a little?

[W&KO]

Are you able to unpack that statement a little?

I used a cast iron hawse for my wire rope, suppose it couldn’t be used for Dyneema. Although it’s pretty rare to see a hawse on a wire rope.

[loanrangie]

Are you able to unpack that statement a little?

Not much to expand on, the cast iron ones were designed for steel cable in place of rollers and alloy for synthetic rope. Of course you could use cast iron for synthetic but you wouldn't use alloy for steel.

[POD]

I found an online article that gives a reasonably detailed explanation of the pros and cons of various types of fairlead. Kinda confirms my original assumption that a hard surface is kinder on the rope, whatever type of rope that may be. This guy recommends an aluminium hawse with type iii anodised finish, which he describes as having near-diamond hardness. Grit picked up in the rope will damage soft material, which will in turn damage the rope.
Winch Fairleads: How to Pick the Best One



- Roundforge (https://www.roundforge.com/articles/winch-fairleads/)

However he does not state any sources for his information. So just more opinion, but with more detail.

The whole 'cast vs billet' thing is a bit amusing; I suppose I could go and cast a billet and then machine from that. How is something machined from a 'billet' of unknown material made by unknown processes and of unknown quality, better than something cast from unknown material by unknown persons and of unknown quality? As far as I can determine, a 'billet' is just a chunk of material that does not yet have the shape that you want.

Thanks to those who offered opinions, I guess it keeps a forum going.

[Dorian]

I would argue that the smoother the surface the kinder it is on the rope, but I think that is probably just semantics as harder materials usually maintain a polish better.
Cast alloy is often full of manganese to make for easier casting, but it corrodes easily, which is why people talk about billet being better.
Again semantics, but if you cast a block of metal you would usually call it an ingot, it becomes a billet once it's rolled / forged to size. The rolling / forging should increase the hardness and create a more uniform crystal structure in the metal.

Based on the above, the bee's knees material would be polished forged stainless knife steel. But that might be a bit of an overkill.[biggrin]

Cheers

[p38arover]

I'm planning on making the hawsers myself- just because I can.

You can make heavy rope? [bigwhistle]

[goingbush]

Ive just put 60m x 14mm Synthetic on my PowerWagon project , I think the 'fairlead' on these are more suited to synthetic than steel rope .
People in the USA are bolting a Hawse to the front of these if they use synthetic, I cant understand why they think they need it.

I just need to fill the gap between the cable guide and the bumper with JB Weld or Devcon.

http://goingbush.com/DPW/braden1.jpg

http://goingbush.com/DPW/braden2.jpg

[350RRC]

On cray boats (which can haul maybe 14kms or more of rope a day pulling their pots in Vic) the winch 'pulley' is always ally because it grips the rope and slowly wears, but can be machined easily to keep working properly.

Think of a horizontal vee belt pulley up to 900mm in dia. None are stainless because it wouldn't grip the rope as well. The winch wears the rope over time but it's a business cost.

All the other surfaces the rope might run over before the winch are 316 stainless...... hard as. They will wear a tiny bit, but only after years. Wear surfaces become highly polished.

They can be a roller, or a tube, etc but all are stainless.

The point is using something hard and polished if in a rubbing / friction situation won't wear the rope as much as something soft which creates more friction and hence heat.

DL

[ramblingboy42]

nobody seems to use a roller fairlead/hawse these days , but if I was fitting a winch , that's what I'd consider

I'm not sure whether you are confusing a hawse with a fairlead.

a hawse is an opening for a hawser to go through a hull, panel or bulkhead.

a hawser is a heaving line or cable

a fairlead is a guide to protect the cable/hawser from damage while passing through the hawse.

if I'm wrong here maybe one of our able bodied semen can correct me.....I know fairleads from aeroplane control cables.