Ford's electric F-150 pickup truck

[Old Farang]

See Ford's electric F-150 pickup truck
Ford's electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck is here - CNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/19/success/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-pickup-truck/index.html)

(CNN Business)The most popular pickup truck in America is back, now with way more batteries. Ford revealed the fully electric F-150 Lightning (http://www.cnn.com/2021/05/10/success/ford-electric-f-150-pickup-truck-lightning/index.html) at an event Wednesday night, in a moment that could herald the point at which electric vehicles go truly mainstream (http://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/cars/2020-electric-vehicles/index.html).

The Ford F-150 (http://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/success/ford-f-150-limited-hybrid-review/index.html) has been the best selling truck in America for over four decades. In fact, the F-series line of pickup trucks is the best selling "light vehicle" in America, period, according to data from Cox Automotive.

An electric truck represents a great opportunity for Ford to get ahead of competitors like Tesla (TSLA (https://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html'symb=TSLA&source=story_quote_link)) and Rivian (http://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/success/rivian-electric-pickup-suv-order/index.html), an electric vehicle startup in which Ford is a major investor. But it also represents a great challenge. Ford has spent more than a century building its reputation among pickup buyers and a poorly received entry into this market could squander that.

[Arapiles]

Nice.

May also have a removable range extender:

Ford Patents Range Extender That Could Go in F-150 Electric Pickup (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34277725/ford-f-150-range-extender-ev-pickup-patent/)

[speleomike]

Looks ugly. I presume the cooling grill at the front does not actually allow air through. Why isn't it more aerodynamic at the front? Still looks like an American brick. At least the inside appears to still have knobs to turn.

[JDNSW]

....... Still looks like an American brick......

It is meant to - to avoid scaring off their regular customers. Starting price is US$34k or about $45k. But that is only starting price - few will sell for that. Add the cost of producing a small number of RHD (or cost of conversion), add cost of local support and meeting ADRs aka "Australia tax", plus stamp duty and on road costs, and GST on all the above, and expect the starting price to be around $100k - but for that sort of price, don't expect the base model, so add at least another $10k for what is actually sold here. Assuming it actually appears here at all.

And it still won't fit in an ordinary parking spot!

[NavyDiver]

Waiting waiting waiting. I want a range extender Fuel Cell which doubles as my UPS at work. The LAVO (https://lavo.com.au/)version is getting close with the removable canisters of hydrogen which can be added to a range extender. Its 40Kwh storage limit can be increased by removing full canisters and adding empty ones I assume.

The F150 is interesting as it is almost suitable as a farm truck. Those who have tries the POWER torch and extraordinary instant acceleration from 0 to top speed know that ICE cannot keep up in that matter

Still a way to go with this. Its getting hotter almost daily. Ford is building a recharge on the go PLUG into its 150 is exactly what I want. Hope and sure Landrover and others are taking careful note of that little innovation.

The Patent Ford has "https://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=10,773,602.PN.&OS=pn/10,773,602&RS=PN/10,773,602"
Chuckle? "[B]An electrified vehicle, comprising: a drive wheel; a battery pack; a cargo space; and a generator removably positioned within the cargo space and adapted to selectively output power for either charging the battery pack or propelling the drive wheel, wherein the generator is box shaped, wherein the generator includes locating studs received within openings of the cargo space."

Our Jerry cans and long range tanks are exactly this [biggrin] Changes for battery or fuel cell for a range extender is a given Noting 100Kwh battery may weight "625 kg" tesla model s version (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S).

While solid state batteries may reduce that weight by about 60-70% The equivalent power in Hydrogen is still a lot less weight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhZv3QjmbdA

[DiscoMick]

Turn off the gas: is America ready to embrace electric vehicles? | Automotive industry | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/23/america-ford-electric-vehicles-lightning?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)

[DiscoMick]

Wonder how long it will be before Ford releases a Ranger EV? The Ranger is such an important vehicle for Ford that an EV version would be essential, surely? Maybe the F-150 EV pack would be close to fitting the Ranger.

[PhilipA]

Speaking of waiting.

How is that order for the Tesla pick up going that was going to be delivered mid 2021?

We should see a review on this page within the next month. (sarc)

I don't think the Housten plant is finished yet.

Regards PhilipA

[350RRC]

Houston, we have a problem.

[Tombie]

Speaking of waiting.

How is that order for the Tesla pick up going that was going to be delivered mid 2021?

We should see a review on this page within the next month. (sarc)

I don't think the Housten plant is finished yet.

Regards PhilipA

Haven’t heard too much.

I have a production order for one sitting here.
I can sell my spot if it goes ahead and I don’t want it.

[DiscoMick]

Isn't Tesla opening new factories in China and the EU to increase production?

[bob10]

Nice.

May also have a removable range extender:

Ford Patents Range Extender That Could Go in F-150 Electric Pickup (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34277725/ford-f-150-range-extender-ev-pickup-patent/)

Here is the advertising blurb for the F150.


2022 Ford® F-150 Lightning Electric Truck |All Electric and All F-150 (https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/)

Almost every developed country around the World has their act together about electric vehicles, and
decarbonising of their transport sector, except Australia. The starting price of the electric F-150 is stated to start at $40,000, which compares to the top end price of Hilux utes and the Ford Ranger. And certainly compares to the Land Rover Defender, and Discovery. Toyota has said there will be a hybrid Diesel/ electric 'Lux by 2025, and Ford have promised a full electric Ranger by 2030.

From the New Daily, Australia left in the dust when it comes to next generation Utes.

Electric utes in Australia are a long, long way off – but they needn't be (thenewdaily.com.au) (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/auto/2021/06/06/electric-vehicle-utes-australia/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020210607)

[Homestar]

Wonder how long it will be before Ford releases a Ranger EV? The Ranger is such an important vehicle for Ford that an EV version would be essential, surely? Maybe the F-150 EV pack would be close to fitting the Ranger.

2030 according to Ford Australia - and I agree they need to get their skates on - the Ranger is the only thing keeping Ford Dealers doors open these days making up 70% of their vehicle sales in Australia - if they lose their market share going forward, they'll go the same way that Holden has (With a care factor of Zero from me if it does)

[Homestar]

Here is the advertising blurb for the F150.


2022 Ford® F-150 Lightning Electric Truck |All Electric and All F-150 (https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/)

Almost every developed country around the World has their act together about electric vehicles, and
decarbonising of their transport sector, except Australia. The starting price of the electric F-150 is stated to start at $40,000, which compares to the top end price of Hilux utes and the Ford Ranger. And certainly compares to the Land Rover Defender, and Discovery. Toyota has said there will be a hybrid Diesel/ electric 'Lux by 2025, and Ford have promised a full electric Ranger by 2030.

From the New Daily, Australia left in the dust when it comes to next generation Utes.

Electric utes in Australia are a long, long way off – but they needn't be (thenewdaily.com.au) (https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/auto/2021/06/06/electric-vehicle-utes-australia/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Morning%20News%20-%2020210607)

My guess is it will start at $95K here in Aus when/if they launch it here. Until any EV is price competitive to an ICE vehicle, uptake will drag.

[Tombie]

How can we be behind. We don’t make anything!
We just import.

Infrastructure in the USA is marginal at best, almost non existent.

Very few countries are capable of taking up on mass and handling the imposed loads.


Then there’s the raw resources needed for mass production - there isn’t enough processing power out there.

Then let’s put Australia in context- **** all people scattered all over the place. Not a lot of per capita base for cost dilution.

[DiscoMick]

Read a story today which stated the EV F-150 won't be coming here because our EV infrastructure is so far behind the rest of the world. Same story said Nissan is not bringing its latest EVs here either, for the same reason.

[bob10]

Volvo releases its pricing for its first all electric SUV in Australia, XC40m recharge. The first EV released in Australia under the Volvo brand, with a 418 km range, dual 150kW motors output of 300kW with 660 Nm of torque. The XC40's pricing will compete directly with the upcoming Mercedes EQA, with 140 Kw and 375 Nm.

Volvo reveals pricing for its first all electric SUV in Australia, XC40 Recharge (thedriven.io) (https://thedriven.io/2021/06/08/volvo-reveals-pricing-for-its-first-all-electric-suv-in-australia-xc40-recharge/)

[bob10]

Australia raises the luxury car tax threshold for EV's for the second year in a row. Starting July 1, the LCT for EV's and fuel efficient cars will be relaxed to $ 79,659, while the threshold for ICE cars will be raised to $ 69,152. The latest LCT movements were welcomed by Australia's EV Council as a number of new models will come under the new threshold, including the Tesla Model 3 standard range plus, the newly launched KIA e-Niro , the Nissan leaf e+, and the Hyundai Kona and Ionic EV's.From the driven;

Australia raises luxury car tax threshold for EVs for second year in row (thedriven.io) (https://thedriven.io/2021/06/01/australia-raises-luxury-car-tax-threshold-for-evs-for-second-year-in-row/)

[bob10]

Is a three phase charging station necessary at home with EV's? with a list of new BEV's in Australia and their charging rates. From the driven.;

Is a 3-phase electric vehicle charger at home really necessary? (thedriven.io) (https://thedriven.io/2019/08/18/is-a-3-phase-electric-vehicle-charger-at-home-really-necessary/)

[NavyDiver]

My guess is it will start at $95K here in Aus when/if they launch it here. Until any EV is price competitive to an ICE vehicle, uptake will drag.
BYD bring a sub $35k one in soon. Oddly I saw a heap are in hibernation at Sydney airport?


"New details of the upcoming BYD (https://www.caradvice.com.au/tag/byd/) electric hatchback – which importer Nexport claims will be sold in Australia for “well under $35,000” when order books open later this year – have been revealed exclusively to CarAdvice.The Chinese-built five-door – which was unveiled as the EA1 in China last week, but will be sold locally under a different nameplate – has a range of approximately 500km, according to Nexport founder Luke Todd."

The Sydney ones were apparently taxis in North Sydney for a short time. Run out of power or Covid19 iced?
https://motorworld.app/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/39dbb850949e38b7e65d3541bdf80726.png

I wonder if Landrover will survive a billion $ write off just reportedly announced (https://www.caradvice.com.au/930831/jaguar-land-rover-axes-all-electric-range-rover-report/)for a canned Ranagie EV and killing the Jag Ev ipace.

One a brighter note 2026 is also in a link in that link [bigwhistle]google "Jaguar to to all Electric by 2025 and[B] Rover to phase out Diesel by 2026 "

Our shocking lack of planning for this may bite us I think. Fully expecting lots of dumping into Australia of end of line vehicle redundant in most parts of the world soon.

"EU carbon price hits record 50 euros per tonne on route to climate target" is now. Most people/business did not think that level would occur until 2050! That alone will shake up the entire industry in the EU. The EU GDP is about $15 trillion or 1/6th of the world GDP.

[bob10]

Read a story today which stated the EV F-150 won't be coming here because our EV infrastructure is so far behind the rest of the world. Same story said Nissan is not bringing its latest EVs here either, for the same reason.

When you check out the map of charging stations between San Francisco and Seattle, there are over 200, shows how far we are behind . Check out the map, The USA is embracing EV's under Biden. [ scroll down to find the map]

2022 Ford® F-150 Lightning Electric Truck |All Electric and All F-150 (https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/)

[Homestar]

BYD bring a sub $35k one in soon. Oddly I saw a heap are in hibernation at Sydney airport?


"New details of the upcoming BYD (https://www.caradvice.com.au/tag/byd/) electric hatchback – which importer Nexport claims will be sold in Australia for “well under $35,000” when order books open later this year – have been revealed exclusively to CarAdvice.The Chinese-built five-door – which was unveiled as the EA1 in China last week, but will be sold locally under a different nameplate – has a range of approximately 500km, according to Nexport founder Luke Todd."

The Sydney ones were apparently taxis in North Sydney for a short time. Run out of power or Covid19 iced?
https://motorworld.app/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/39dbb850949e38b7e65d3541bdf80726.png

I wonder if Landrover will survive a billion $ write off just reportedly announced (https://www.caradvice.com.au/930831/jaguar-land-rover-axes-all-electric-range-rover-report/)for a canned Ranagie EV and killing the Jag Ev ipace.

One a brighter note 2026 is also in a link in that link [bigwhistle]google "Jaguar to to all Electric by 2025 and[B] Rover to phase out Diesel by 2026 "

Our shocking lack of planning for this may bite us I think. Fully expecting lots of dumping into Australia of end of line vehicle redundant in most parts of the world soon.

"EU carbon price hits record 50 euros per tonne on route to climate target" is now. Most people/business did not think that level would occur until 2050! That alone will shake up the entire industry in the EU. The EU GDP is about $15 trillion or 1/6th of the world GDP.

Should have clarified - an equivalent vehicle for the money. I can get a fully optioned Kia Cerato GT with Leather heated and cooled seats, all the whiz bang features for this price that will do over 600KM on a tank of fuel - what spec level will a $35K entry level EV have? The vehicles in the pic all look like arse as well IMO - wouldn't be caught dead in one.

OEM's are only opting out of ICE because of legislation, not because Joe Public want them to and if we aren't ready when ICE vehicles are no longer sold I can see the secondhand car market being quite healthy - maybe we'll be like Cuba and still driving around in 50 year old vehicles because there is no other option? [bigwhistle][biggrin]

As I said - still a way to go unfortunately. I won't need one for a bit yet anyway - an EV of any description can't do what I need as a daily so I'm more hoping there may be something decent and at a decent price by the time I retire in 20 years time - I think that timeframe will have seen Australia pull its socks up a bit by them (I am an optimist) [biggrin]

[NavyDiver]

Your time frame looks good. "Land Rover has announced it will introduce the first of six pure electric vehicles from 2024 – phasing out diesel engines from 2026 – and axing petrol and diesel power altogether by 2036."[thumbsupbig]

My little play in the US trucks SPAC is headed by an Aussie. DCRB is NYSE S.P.A.C. about to become HYZON motors
a very interesting chat with Hyzon's CEO Craig Knight on a pod cast I like

Everything About Hydrogen | Podcast on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/2GjMjxgaN3KT7JQVxNjbUo)


Not stock or investment advice - Never take investment or medical advice from fools like me[biggrin]

Edit- My MG ev is ugly and quirky - not as ugly or as capable 4wd as my ridiculously fun old LADA ute was. Suspect the rust on the LADA may be a lot more than on the MG and do recall the gear box falling out once on that one [biggrin]

[DiscoMick]

China is the world leader in EVs now with over 40% of global EV sales. USA is playing catch up.

[PhilipA]

China is the world leader in EVs now with over 40% of global EV sales. USA is playing catch up.

And yet they are increasing CO2 emissions faster than any other country in the World.

Transport is AFAIR only 10% of CO2 generation in Australia, so what is the point?

Regards PhilipA

[Tombie]

When you check out the map of charging stations between San Francisco and Seattle, there are over 200, shows how far we are behind . Check out the map, The USA is embracing EV's under Biden. [ scroll down to find the map]

2022 Ford[emoji2400] F-150 Lightning Electric Truck |All Electric and All F-150 (https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/)

Rubbish. Biden didn’t miraculously make these appear in 90 days….

And now put it back in context yet again…

How many people between San Fran and Seattle?

[Tombie]

And yet they are increasing CO2 emissions faster than any other country in the World.

Transport is AFAIR only 10% of CO2 generation in Australia, so what is the point?

Regards PhilipA

Of course!

Carbon emissions is a statistical wankfest!

Lower emissions per capita whilst increasing ’capita’ still means higher overall emissions [emoji56]

[DiscoMick]

Last time I checked, vehicle emissions were believed to contribute to about a thousand deaths a year here from respiratory diseases. Our fuels are relatively dirty as we have not adopted
the latest Euro 6 standards.
There is also the bigger picture that the world is already heading for failure to limit the temperature rise to 1.5 degrees. Australians are among the highest emitters per person in the world and we need to do better. If we don't improve, other countries are likely to apply carbon taxes to our coal and other exports, costing jobs here.

And yet they are increasing CO2 emissions faster than any other country in the World.

Transport is AFAIR only 10% of CO2 generation in Australia, so what is the point?

Regards PhilipA

[Tombie]

Again the balancing of statistics not inline with regional circumstances.

If we continue to look at per capita as the measure the solution just won’t work.

Unless you increase population density to cover, there is no possible way to reduce at the same rate per person as say Europe.

[PhilipA]

There is also the bigger picture that the world is already heading for failure to limit the temperature rise to 1.5 degrees. Australians are among the highest emitters per person in the world and we need to do better. If we don't improve, other countries are likely to apply carbon taxes to our coal and other exports, costing jobs here.

That we are individually high emitters may be true but Australia overall is a net CO2 sink, ie we have less than zero total emissions caused by our small population and extensive forests.
Regards PhilipA

[DiscoMick]

Renewables are already achieving that.
Again the balancing of statistics not inline with regional circumstances.

If we continue to look at per capita as the measure the solution just won’t work.

Unless you increase population density to cover, there is no possible way to reduce at the same rate per person as say Europe.

[Tombie]

Renewables are already achieving that.

Keep telling yourself that [emoji41]

Not even remotely accurate.

[josh.huber]

Last time I checked, vehicle emissions were believed to contribute to about a thousand deaths a year here from respiratory diseases. Our fuels are relatively dirty as we have not adopted
the latest Euro 6 standards.
There is also the bigger picture that the world is already heading for failure to limit the temperature rise to 1.5 degrees. Australians are among the highest emitters per person in the world and we need to do better. If we don't improve, other countries are likely to apply carbon taxes to our coal and other exports, costing jobs here.

In my opinion. Just my opinion. The issue with vehicle emissions in Australia isn't the rules. It's the enforcement or lack there of. We all know vehicle emissions are bad, but very few of us know why, we all hate EGR, and block or delete it. But no one ever catches us. There are"tuners" out there deleting EGR everyday, nothing happens to them. Road transport seem to be the only ones under the microscope. While the Mines run free.

[DiscoMick]

Size of landmass doesn't mean much, I think. Other countries have large landmasses.

People are causing the problem and their behaviour has to change, so per capita emissions is the best way to compare progress, I reckon.

Instead of making excuses, let's just do what we can to act responsibly.

That we are individually high emitters may be true but Australia overall is a net CO2 sink, ie we have less than zero total emissions caused by our small population and extensive forests.
Regards PhilipA

[Tombie]

Size of landmass doesn't mean much, I think. Other countries have large landmasses.

People are causing the problem and their behaviour has to change, so per capita emissions is the best way to compare progress, I reckon.

Instead of making excuses, let's just do what we can to act responsibly.

But….

How is that?

By having more people producing less per person?
Very counterproductive isn’t it [emoji12]

[DiscoMick]

By shifting to non-emitting methods.
For example, aluminium and steel production using coal power is likely to cop carbon taxes applied by developed countries, which could make those exports uncompetitive.
But if those industries change to using renewable electricity, including hydrogen, to manufacture their products, they should have a bright future. This is already happening as companies look to secure their future.
We have a big opportunity here to generate lots of new jobs because we are so rich in renewable energy sources. It would be dumb to ignore it.

Carbon border adjustments: what are they and how will they affect Australia? - Pearls and Irritations (https://johnmenadue.com/carbon-border-adjustments-what-are-they-and-how-will-they-affect-australia/)

[Tombie]

You need to expand your research. This limited scope that aligns with your narrative is really blocking you from seeing the reality of the broader picture.

[DiscoMick]

Always interested in learning new things. Recommendations?

[350RRC]

Always interested in learning new things. Recommendations?

The smartest thing you could do is get familiar with real life generation, source, import / export between states and price.

It all happens here, showing ALL the generators, by type, updated in line with the national market every five minutes:

ELJM: NEM Regional Generation Summary (http://nemlog.com.au/gen/region/)

N.B. 'RRP' stands for representative regional price, i.e what all the generators get in that state for that 5 minute period. The prices are 'spot', i.e. outside long term contracts.

It doesn't mean recommended retail.

$40 / MW translates to 4 cents / kwh. That's what the generator gets as it leaves their facility. Upper max is $15,000, min is minus $1,000 per MW.


Over the last 3 years of watching what goes on one thing is evident:

The morning and evening peaks have become more acute. (I put this down to the use of splits and electric everything in new houses and refurbs due to the price of gas and the hassle and cost of a new separate gas connection).

The supply is most stretched in the evenings now so I dunno how it's going to cope when everyone switches on the heater, stove, TV, lecky blanky and plugs in their EV when they get home from living the dream. It's also way worse when it's hot and the air con is on.

cheers, DL

[DiscoMick]

Yes, its interesting.
I guess in the future there may be more batteries drawn down in the evening after being charged during the day.

[350RRC]

Yes, its interesting.
I guess in the future there may be more batteries drawn down in the evening after being charged during the day.

Glad you had a look. It really is the most comprehensive live data base to inform opinions AFAIAC.

Some days the renewals are flying, price goes negative, etc.

Some days (evenings mostly) the supply looks like it's close to a knife edge, which is reflected in the price.

At the very least info like this takes the politics out of it if people see it and learn, and timely, informed decisions can be promoted.

cheers, DL

[DiscoMick]

I remember reading that the afternoon the Callide C plant failed, also tripping 2 others, the winds were strong and it was clear and sunny, which greatly helped to replace the lost electricity capacity.
Imagine if the planned second Qld pumped hydro and the network of new solar and batteries had also been available to help fill the gap.

[350RRC]

I have the screenshots of Qld, NSW, Vic and SA (from the website I posted) from the actual day that happened. It's an education for those who want to really know what the effect was and how it was dealt with.

The scale of the (ongoing) Callide outage till today was larger than what the whole of SA generates most of the day, everyday.

Tried to put them up at the time, but they're tiny. I have to work out why.

When I do post them up you'll see that the shortfall was made up mostly by NSW opening the hydro floodgates and QLD burning coal seam gas and 'non aviation kerosene'.

That was reflected in the RRP which was sky high for quite a while in QLD and NSW.

That's the beauty of that website............. no 'I heards'.

One of the four Callide units is going again, as you would know if you looked.

cheers, DL

[DiscoMick]

I think its correct the Callide C failure also tripped the Callide B and Gladstone plants, which then took several hours to restart.

[windsock]

Tried to put them up at the time, but they're tiny. I have to work out why.

When you are drafting your post, before submitting it, double click on your image. You should see a dialog offering resize options. I wonder if this will help. They sound like interesting graphics.