Running in new D4 motor

[Art]

My 11/2014 D4 snapped a crankshaft August last year. Generously JLR provided a new motor, and I paid for fitting. Since then I've done about 7k on it. The motor seems to still feel a bit tight? And fuel consumption a tad higher than on old motor which had done 58k when it blew up.
Question: how long do these motors take to be fully run in?

[Eric SDV6SE]

Surely their replacement would have come with a 1000km oil change and check? Should be run in as soon as you turn the key. Modern manufacturing means no more running in oil, but I'd be doing an oil change anyway. Oil is cheaper than (another) new engine. Perhaps run an engine flush (additive to oil, run for 10min at idle then drain oil) through it before dumping the oil, ive found this to work quite well.

Dont be shy with the go pedal either, need to blow the cobwebs and carbon out once in a while.

[DazzaTD5]

There is no run in period on a relatively modern engine...

For older designed engines to meet newer and tighter emissions regs the biggest hurdle manufacturers need to over come is internal friction.
To reduce internal friction the easiest thing to do is use a thinner oil and increase bearing clearances etc.

The down side of this is engines use more oil and blow by of fuel is more common.
The 2 obvious engines are the V6 diesel used in disco4, 5 etc and the V8 diesel used in Toyotas.

[Art]

The service consultant at the dealer said the factory didn't specify an early oil change for new engine but recommended one anyway. I changed oil and filter after about a month myself, and then had scheduled service at 10k/12 months. The new engine has now done about 17k and I reckon it feels a bit freerer.
I'm still wondering if the new engine has an updated crank or not given the engines been recently used on F150 and now coming to the 2022 Ranger?

[DiscoJeffster]

The service consultant at the dealer said the factory didn't specify an early oil change for new engine but recommended one anyway. I changed oil and filter after about a month myself, and then had scheduled service at 10k/12 months. The new engine has now done about 17k and I reckon it feels a bit freerer.
I'm still wondering if the new engine has an updated crank or not given the engines been recently used on F150 and now coming to the 2022 Ranger?

No it hasn’t. They didn’t simply make a different crank. The block is also different.

[DazzaTD5]

The new engine has now done about 17k and I reckon it feels a bit freerer.
I'm still wondering if the new engine has an updated crank or not given the engines been recently used on F150 and now coming to the 2022 Ranger?

Its not the same engine in the F150.
I doubt the replacement engine you have is any different to the last of the 3.0lt and is likely to be the last of available stock before they stopped production.

[101RRS]

I'm still wondering if the new engine has an updated crank

What updated crank - no such thing for the standard 3.0 Lion engine. you have what you had before.

[DiscoDB]

The service consultant at the dealer said the factory didn't specify an early oil change for new engine but recommended one anyway. I changed oil and filter after about a month myself, and then had scheduled service at 10k/12 months. The new engine has now done about 17k and I reckon it feels a bit freerer.
I'm still wondering if the new engine has an updated crank or not given the engines been recently used on F150 and now coming to the 2022 Ranger?

Ford’s Diesel Engine Supervisor, Ken Pumford, claimed that JLR did benefit from the updates to improve durability of the internal components which are common to the JLR engines - namely on the crankshaft line.

These changes though would be after they stopped making the D4 engines, so potentially the D5 received some of these updates.

You would need to know the build date for your new engine to know if it was pre or post these changes. The build date should be stamped onto the engine block or could be on the ID plate attached to the valve cover (but this seems to only apply to the engines built for Citroen).

Otherwise just check some of assembly tags on the wiring harnesses that came with the engine. These are normally stamped with a date and time.

As Dazza say’s - most likely they are using pre-built stock for the D4 before the assembly line was changed to build the D5 engines.

[Art]

I'll check the build date.

[DiscoDB]

If you are lucky it is on a tag similar to the one shown below just next to the ID label. This is from a new 2.7 shown here:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211204/d314e92c87bbc2865e02d06d0553a159.jpg

(3.0 would be different).

[DazzaTD5]

My guess is all of the 3.0lt V6 engines for both the D4 and D5 were built in the same batch at Ford's Dagenham engine plant and production likely ceased somewhere around 2016 - 2018?

With all new Land Rover models moving over to use the Ingenium engines

[DiscoJeffster]

My guess is all of the 3.0lt V6 engines for both the D4 and D5 were built in the same batch at Ford's Dagenham engine plant and production likely ceased somewhere around 2016 - 2018?

With all new Land Rover models moving over to use the Ingenium engines

Agreed, especially given there have been D5 engine failures.

[DiscoDB]

My guess is all of the 3.0lt V6 engines for both the D4 and D5 were built in the same batch at Ford's Dagenham engine plant and production likely ceased somewhere around 2016 - 2018?

With all new Land Rover models moving over to use the Ingenium engines

Yes this is possible Dazza, but I doubt they pre-build more than a few months supply in advance - JLR certainly didn’t have enough cash to pre-order the D5 engines for years in advanced. Likewise, Ford wouldn’t pre-build and hold for JLR either unless they are being paid to do this.

Most engines are assembled just prior to being fitted - possibly 2-4 weeks in advance - and part supplies aim to be just in time. But yes the crankshaft and bearings would be batch produced and so will take longer for any changes to flow through.

Any crankshaft design and manufacturing changes could have gone into the MY19 and MY20 Discovery 5, but it may be too early to know if this was successful. Regardless, the D5 service intervals won’t be helping.

Different story for crate engines intended as spares though - these clearly need to be pre-built.

Hopefully Art can find a date and time on a tag somewhere on the replacement engine as it will be interesting to know if this is old stock or a more recent build.

[josh.huber]

To be sold in Australia, you must be able to supply all parts for 10 years after the models stop. So you should be able to buy an engine until 2026?

[scarry]

To be sold in Australia, you must be able to supply all parts for 10 years after the models stop. So you should be able to buy an engine until 2026?

Are you sure about that?
There was a thread on here about Puma gearboxes now being unavailable.

[DiscoJeffster]

Are you sure about that?
There was a thread on here about Puma gearboxes now being unavailable.

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/1449_ACL%20Motor%20vehicle%20sales%20and%20repairs _FA_WEB.pdf

This references “many years”. The US mandates 10 years.

[josh.huber]

Are you sure about that?
There was a thread on here about Puma gearboxes now being unavailable.

I've been told a few times. Never looked into it. I had an 11 yr old bike that needed parts once and they used the excuse it was past the law requirement now.

[scarry]

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/1449_ACL%20Motor%20vehicle%20sales%20and%20repairs _FA_WEB.pdf

This references “many years”. The US mandates 10 years.

So "many years" could mean anything.

I agree,it should be 10yrs at least,and mandated.

[DazzaTD5]

Yes this is possible Dazza, but I doubt they pre-build more than a few months supply in advance - JLR certainly didn’t have enough cash to pre-order the D5 engines for years in advanced. Likewise, Ford wouldn’t pre-build and hold for JLR either unless they are being paid to do this.

Most engines are assembled just prior to being fitted - possibly 2-4 weeks in advance - and part supplies aim to be just in time. But yes the crankshaft and bearings would be batch produced and so will take longer for any changes to flow through.

Any crankshaft design and manufacturing changes could have gone into the MY19 and MY20 Discovery 5, but it may be too early to know if this was successful. Regardless, the D5 service intervals won’t be helping.

Different story for crate engines intended as spares though - these clearly need to be pre-built.

Hopefully Art can find a date and time on a tag somewhere on the replacement engine as it will be interesting to know if this is old stock or a more recent build.

Yes maybe true but the supply of diesel engines to JLR would have been a small quantity compared to Ford globally and other manufacturers. Fords Bridgend plant made petrol engines for JLR and ended production in 2018 - 2020, so again my guess is the same for the diesel engines, round 2018.

[DazzaTD5]

As for supply of parts the consumer guarantee says something along the lines of repair or supply parts for a reasonable time.

In the U.S you will find its along the lines of make parts available, it doesnt stipulate the original manufacturer needs to do this.

There is no 10 year thing that I know of.

[DazzaTD5]

There was a thread on here about Puma gearboxes now being unavailable.

Likely the same thing as the diesel engines.
As far as I remember Fords Halewood plant built the mt82 box while JLR was owned by Ford and JLR head office was there.
I believe the plant is solely a Ford plant now moving to ev drivetrains.

[Art]

I can't find any date tags anywhere in the engine. The engine number is stamped on the cam cover with no other info.
It seems the engine supplied was a ' stripped motor' it did not include turbo, injectors, wiring or any other ancillaries. It seems this was the standard form of replacement motor.
Because the motor was replaced under warranty, I have minimal info from JLR about it apart from engine number. Unlike the vin I can't decifer the the year of manufacture, which would be handy to decide when to replace cam belts etc!

[DiscoJeffster]

I can't find any date tags anywhere in the engine. The engine number is stamped on the cam cover with no other info.
It seems the engine supplied was a ' stripped motor' it did not include turbo, injectors, wiring or any other ancillaries. It seems this was the standard form of replacement motor.
Because the motor was replaced under warranty, I have minimal info from JLR about it apart from engine number. Unlike the vin I can't decifer the the year of manufacture, which would be handy to decide when to replace cam belts etc!

It’s what’s known as a long motor. Includes the heads etc but not the ancillaries. You can assume it’s fresh. Assume the cam belts will be due seven years after its fitting

[Art]

Yes, it LR 063285 part number, d3 and d4 to 2015, described as stripped motor, I.e long motor. Heaps of references and photos around on interweb. Still, it could of sat on a shelf 3 or 4 years before being installed in my car ?

[DiscoJeffster]

Yes, it LR 063285 part number, d3 and d4 to 2015, described as stripped motor, I.e long motor. Heaps of references and photos around on interweb. Still, it could of sat on a shelf 3 or 4 years before being installed in my car ?

Even so, it’ll be fine. There’s enough tolerance in them.

[DiscoDB]

I can't find any date tags anywhere in the engine. The engine number is stamped on the cam cover with no other info.
It seems the engine supplied was a ' stripped motor' it did not include turbo, injectors, wiring or any other ancillaries. It seems this was the standard form of replacement motor.
Because the motor was replaced under warranty, I have minimal info from JLR about it apart from engine number. Unlike the vin I can't decifer the the year of manufacture, which would be handy to decide when to replace cam belts etc!

Looks like you are out of luck Art. I am sure LR know the build date - pity they did not share with you. I think you have to assume it is identical to your old motor with no changes made.

How much larger is the engine serial number compared to your old motor. Is it 7 digits followed by 306DT?

If these were issued sequentially, then you could assume the factory was producing something like 4-5,000 engines a month to get an estimate on how much later the engine was built compared to your original engine ( I have no idea of the actual number made a year - just guessing).

Would need to compare some serial numbers from different years to see if they are increasing at a consistent rate or if they randomly change from year to year.

[Art]

The engine number is really long?

[DiscoDB]

The engine number is really long?

On the 2.7 it is 12 numbers/characters. XXXXXXX276DT.

The first 7 numbers look to be the serial number followed then by the engine code (276DT).

Does the 3.0 engine have the same format but instead end in 306DT on both the old and new number?

[econti]

In regards to running it in - no new engine we have ever had (many work vans over many years, new Land Rovers, etc etc) has ever performed properly until it's had a hard workout. Next time you're towing something and get to a hill, give it the berries. Don't be afraid to let it eat.

[DiscoDB]

According to RVCS - the D4 engine numbers are based on the following:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/a98411a1453270b1b4e2d879833df966.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/34b783ac9f65f80ebee6d01e1f4226de.jpg

Road Vehicle Descriptor (RVD1) (http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/41394_875372_RVD_24Nov2009143230.cmd)

So if it is very long (23 numbers/letters), it could be a 7 digit serial number followed by ELD11 then build date DDMMYY then engine code 306DT if the vehicle certificate details above are correct.

The full build details may possibly only be visible from underneath on the side of the engine block just behind the alternator.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211206/82339c71a8a59f4f501e2bd25d9e4e95.jpg

[DiscoDB]

Art - guess no luck finding the build data on the block. Meant to be visible from underneath.

Came across this thread which I thought you may be interested in:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - 3.0 Crankshaft (https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic192996.html)

In summary key points:

- OP was rebuilding a 2016 3.0 with failed crankshaft
- OP ends up getting a new short motor direct from LR
- OP confirmed crankshaft was dated 2019
- OP also stated LR advised it was an updated/upgraded crankshaft.

Also this is a link to a genuine LR crankshaft for sale for the 3.0 which has a date stamp of 300120.

BRAND NEW ORIGINAL LAND ROVER 306DT CRANKSHAFT 3.0TDV6 RANGE ROVER SPORT DISCO 4 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRAND-NEW-ORIGINAL-LAND-ROVER-306DT-CRANKSHAFT-3-0TDV6-RANGE-ROVER-SPORT-DISCO-4-/264839612405'mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/31da34dd09c789a2f3046436f69b3a2a.jpg

What this tells me is the stock of spares for the 3.0 were manufactured right up to the end of LR using them, so your chances of having an updated crankshaft is looking up in my opinion.

Key to confirming is finding a build date (which would have been visible prior to installing the motor).

[Art]

I'm pretty sure that the new engine was actually a remanufactured by JLR unit. Got nearly 30k on it now and it's running much freer!