Interesting First Aid Facts.

[Grizzly_Adams]

G'day All,

Well my wife & I completed our Senior First Aid today. I will be back to St. Johns in 2 weeks to do my Advanced First Aid so we will be properly prepared for our trip to Cape York in August.

One interesting fact to note was about Jellyfish stings. The tentacles on Jellyfish quite often come off (known), however what many people didn't know was that they could fire (ie. inject the poison) quite happily even after they've been disconnected - with some types even after they've dried. Worst thing you can do is try to pull them off or rub them. The best thing you can do? Pour vinegar over them, let them sit for a bit and THEN pull them off - preferably whilst wearing gloves.

Does it lesson the pain? NO, IT DOES NOT! HOWEVER it DOES kill the tentacles so they don't fire when you try to remove them (so you don't get another dose of poison and shorten your already short lifespan considerably).

So if you get a Jellyfish sting don't think it an old wives tale about pouring vinegar over the tentacles - just do it.

By the way Box Jellyfish have been found as far south as Noosa, so beware.

Also interesting to note was a disease in Australia called Lissa disease, spread by bats. Funnily enough it is only 1% different from rabies but that 1% is enough to say that Australia doesn't have rabies. In fact the treatment for Lissa disease is the same as for rabies, interesting eh?

What's even more interesting is that you can get Lissa disease from bat droppings, so when you wipe / scrape bat droppings from your vehicle (because they do severe damage to the paintwork) make sure you use a glove / cloth / something to ensure you don't get it directly on your hands.

The things we learn eh?


Grizzly.

[Michael2]

I think Lissa is the Greek word for rabies:o

Can you get it from bat urine?

In the tropics if you're having a night time BBQ under a tree, you tend to cop some bat urine. They pee themselves to keep cool.

Did your first aid course cover stingrays as venomous creatures?
The only two deaths attributed to stingrays were when the tail stinger pierced the victims heart!!!! :eek: :( Hardly a venom issue.


Yet another amazing fact from the first aid class room.

Enjoy your course Grizzly, I hope you don't need to use any of it. Though you feel better if you do for all the money you spent. On our last trip to the Simpson we were well prepared (IV fluids, antibiotics, adrenaline, corticosteroids, advanced airway management, dental repair kit.....) We only needed one band aid - now to see all the expensive stuff go out of date. At least we got better use out of the tools and the welder.:mad: :mad:

[DEFENDERZOOK]

how many people take vineagar to the beach.....?

or do you just go to coles with the jellyfish tentacle hanging off.....?





this is a tricky one......

[Grizzly_Adams]

It use to be quite common on the northern beaches to have jars or bottles of vinegar on the beach themselves - ie. the council supplied it.

They are still there these days, however now they are starting to colour the vinegar as people were stealing it and replacing the fluid with water. Unfortunately this caused a few deaths :angrylock:

And yes we covered stingrays in the "how (and when) to remove barbs" section, though nothing was said about deaths. I dunno quite how someone's heart managed to get pierced with a barb, we've got quite a lot of shielding (bone) around our heart to protect it... nasty thought though.

I hope we never have to use it, but I will keep it up to date just in case anyway. At least then we stand a better chance if either of us is hurt.

EDIT: From the first aid book it says (about stingrays):
A sting to the chest or abdomen from a stingray is a serious medical emergency and requires immediate medical aid. (The stinging mechanism is attached half-way along the stingray's whip-like tail.) Signs and symptons include immediate intense burning pain, bleeding form the wound and possibly breathing difficultly.

So I stand corrected :o

[Jojo]

Hi,
vinegar should be part of all first aid kits if travelling off the beaten track. you can use it for a variety of purposes, not only as dressing on your sallad. It has some desinfective potential, you may cool burns and the like and -as in your example- there are heaps of other choices for using it.

Lyssa (gr.) is the same as Rabies (lat.), a highly contaguous viral infection, typically transmitted by animal bite (although the virus can be found in any part of the infected animal and even its excretions). Rabies/Lyssa infection is alwaysfatal, you can protect yourself (e.g. if working in an exposed environment) by active immunisation (not really necessary if travelling in Australia).
After having been bitten by a suspect animal you have a good chance of surviving the incident if you get a passive vaccination as soon as possible (within about three days).
If travelling an area with high prevalence of Rabies I would recommend to take a sufficient amout of passive vaccination on the trip, provided there are adequate storage facilities and medical knowledge among the group members.

Have a safe trip!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

theres some talk at the moment of moving all the bats out of hervey bay due to an infection thats nasty to humans-- Lyssa?

dont know how-- there are literaly millions of them--:eek:

[DirtyDawg]

I think Lissa is the Greek word for rabies:o

Can you get it from bat urine?

In the tropics if you're having a night time BBQ under a tree, you tend to cop some bat urine. They pee themselves to keep cool.

Did your first aid course cover stingrays as venomous creatures?
The only two deaths attributed to stingrays were when the tail stinger pierced the victims heart!!!! :eek: :( Hardly a venom issue.


Yet another amazing fact from the first aid class room.

Enjoy your course Grizzly, I hope you don't need to use any of it. Though you feel better if you do for all the money you spent. On our last trip to the Simpson we were well prepared (IV fluids, antibiotics, adrenaline, corticosteroids, advanced airway management, dental repair kit.....) We only needed one band aid - now to see all the expensive stuff go out of date. At least we got better use out of the tools and the welder.:mad: :mad:
Thats some serious medical supplies michael, Both my wife and I are paramedic qualified and she does it full time and our first aid kit isnt that impressive. So how many engels did you take? and who was the nominated Paramedic to canulate. I admire your preparation and I'm glad it all went out of date rather than use

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I did a senior first aid in May too. The most dissapointing thing for me was that if someone has a Sudden Cardiac Arrest, and you cpr them, if they don't come back to life more a less instantly, then they probably aren't going to. :( It's not like the movies :(

Basically, you keep CPRing them until you get to someone with a defibulator.... all you are doing is keeping the body and brain alive. The scary thing is that in remote areas you could be doing that for a long time :O

[Michael2]

Hi Dirtydawg,

Where (what station) in Perth does your wife work? I did an observer shift in Freemantle a couple of years ago. Are you working in the field?

I was the only paramedic, I ran a first aid refresher for everyone in the group, but that just covered basic first aid (except child birth & marine emergencies ;) )

The golden rule was DO NOT LET THE PARAMEDIC GET HURT, so on the Finke to Alice track, where there were a heap of bikes practicing for the Finke Desert challenge, I took 2nd position, so if a bike collided with the first vehicle, I'd be able to assist. A GP I know helped out with the scrips for medication and a dentist made me up a little dental repair kit.

Now to put this trip on my resume' and get a job as a medic on the G4 Challenge ;) ;) :) :D .

Work actually advertised for expressions of interest for paramedics with 4WD experience to do the Variety Bash, a 10 day event. But SWMBO will not grant me additional leave from home :mad: :mad: - but that's okay - I wouldn't want to drive an Explorer anyway.

[crump]

The only deaths attributed to Lyssavirus have been people who care for injured flying foxes and regularly get bitten.If you havent had the immunisation dont handle injured bats.

[Disco_Drivin_Dude]

If you use metho on jellyfish stings, like old first aid books used to recommend, ALL the stingers in the tenticle fire off. I did a first aid course a few years back, when a scientist from JCU here in Townsville came to give a talk on jellyfish stings. As it turned out, this scientist, whose name escapes me, is the man responsible for the now common use of vinegar.

The story he told was, while he was testing other substances on box jelly tenticles under a microscope, tested samples of tenticle were removed from under the scope and dosed with metho, to neutralize the stingers.

By accident and only by accident, while testing tenticle under the scope, he added metho while he was looking through the lens. ALL the stingers in the test sample of tenticle fired off instantly. So the lesson here is don't let granny pour metho on you!

[FenianEel]

If you havent had the immunisation dont handle injured bats.

I think this sort of advice should be kept for the MudPit:twisted:

[DirtyDawg]

Hi Michael,
she was a paramedic in launceston and she works at A local hospital these days in ED. My experiance was combat medic in the army for my unit and a chubb certIV para here in Perth., but i'm a builder these days.
We have a comprehensive first aid kit, cervical collars , Richards splint even suture kits some dental probes and mirrors and cloves..lol. luckily I have only had to break into it once a few years ago whens some pot headed teenagers ran head on into me in the sand dunes had one with a 6cm puncture wound in his calf and the other breathing difficulties from broken ribs, the bleeder was a screamer so I told him to pressure on it while I dealt with Mr drifting in an out of it at first thought it might be a punctured lung as he had some oral bleeding but it was bright red and thick not frothy. Patched em up and shipped them out to the waiting ambo in the back of the landy.I left their mangled ATV where it was. The ambos were good enough to restock my two cervicals and bandages from their supplies.
Three months later my thankyou was a letter of intent to sue from a lawyer. I replied it was a ungazetted roadway stiff ****. didn't hear anything more. ungrateful bastards.

[George130]

We used to have an extensive first aid supply. Ours was the only house when I was growing up that had a first aid cupboard, Yes cupboard with several shelves of drugs, dressings, bandages, syringes and the like. Was very handy with such a large family. I carry a small first aid kit in the rig but thats all so far. I also know that with me if there is lots of blood then its minor, If there is any type of cut or puncture and no blood then its time to panic and get help fast because I'm a bleeder. I can even fill the blood bags in just over 3 mins.
I plan to build on my first aid kit but the boys keep using our supplies every time we buy them.

[DeeJay]

My sister in law moved to Darwin last year, from Tassy. Talk about a change:eek:
She got a nasty box jellyfish bite? all down her left leg. It was supposedly a couple of weeks before the "season" kicked in. She jumped off a boat straight on to it.
It could have been fatal, but for another boatie who had 4 litres of vinigar and the fact she had a really quick trip to hospital.
I saw the photo's - enough to put you off swimming for good.
David

[Grizzly_Adams]

She's very lucky, if the tentacles had wrapped around her chest instead of her leg she would have been in alot more danger (and pain!).

The little buggars have got huuge tentacles too! They can be up to 10mtrs long and they're clear so you won't even see 'em near you, just feel an explosion of pain :o

[Captain_Rightfoot]

She's very lucky, if the tentacles had wrapped around her chest instead of her leg she would have been in alot more danger (and pain!).

The little buggars have got huuge tentacles too! They can be up to 10mtrs long and they're clear so you won't even see 'em near you, just feel an explosion of pain :o
Interestingly from our course, they said if you wear a wetsuit or stockings, they just cannot cover enough skin to kill an adult. :o

[crump]

Interestingly from our course, they said if you wear a wetsuit or stockings, they just cannot cover enough skin to kill an adult. :o

Dunno about that, if you saw me in black fishnets I reckon you'd wish you were dead.:D

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Dunno about that, if you saw me in black fishnets I reckon you'd wish you were dead.:D
Shock is indeed, deadly :eek: :D :D

[CraigE]

MMM, our first aid room and ambo's are only stocked as good as Michaels. My personal first aid kit is not that extensive, but hey nice back up if you have got it. Would be nice to be able to carry some Penthrox though if needed.

[Michael2]

Would be nice to be able to carry some Penthrox though if needed.

You should be able to get Penthrane with a doctors scrip. It's quite expensive though, work pay $11 per ampule and $11 per inhaler.

To keep space & costs down I tried to get morphine (which I use [on patients] at work) for the Simpson trip, but being an S8 drug, the doctor was reluctant to prescribe it. However he prescribed Tramal which can also be given IV or IM, which I had not thought of. Tramal is only an S4 drug and hence not as regulated.

Analgesia would certainly make it easier to get someone with a fracture out of the bush. We also carried Stemetil & Maxolon for nausea. Stemetil works on the central nervous system, and is better for motion sickness (imagine lying flat in the back of a 4WD in the Simpson!) and Maxolon works on the Gastointestinal system and is better for GIT upsets associated with drug side effects. Oral antibiotics were carried in case of chest or tooth infections, but we carried an IV broad spectrum antibiotic (Ceftriaxone) in case of large open wounds or burns.

If you're in a remote area, and have a good GP, you should be able to get something for major trauma. If you have a medical director at work, they may be able to assist.

[Frenchie]

how many people take vineagar to the beach.....?

or do you just go to coles with the jellyfish tentacle hanging off.....?





this is a tricky one......

When we lived in Darwin I used to take a spray bottle of vinegar when walking the dogs on the beach. Had visions of them biting a jellyfish! :eek:

[p38arover]

To keep space & costs down I tried to get morphine (which I use [on patients] at work) for the Simpson trip, but being an S8 drug, the doctor was reluctant to prescribe it. However he prescribed Tramal which can also be given IV or IM, which I had not thought of. Tramal is only an S4 drug and hence not as regulated.

My wife is allergic to morphine and Tramal doesn't work very well for her (she often gets a twisted bowel and the pain can be really severe). She usually gets Pethidene.

Ron

[VladTepes]

Reading page 1 - Jojo what the heck would you know about medecine ? That's why we got rid of you in the 1st place. Damn foreign doctors. We'd rather die (and are doing so) than put up with you lot....;)



Gday mate.:)

[4bee]

So if you get a Jellyfish sting don't think it an old wives tale about pouring vinegar over the tentacles

I really must get my eyes tested again. I wondered how pouring vinegar over my testicles was going to help with stings?

Then I realised........:eek: ;) :D


Useful info there.:)

[rick130]

I really must get my eyes tested again. I wondered how pouring vinegar over my testicles was going to help with stings?

Then I realised........:eek: ;) :D


Useful info there.:)

ROTFL :lol2:
make you grumpier than normal, eh Des. ;)

[CraigE]

You should be able to get Penthrane with a doctors scrip. It's quite expensive though, work pay $11 per ampule and $11 per inhaler.

To keep space & costs down I tried to get morphine (which I use [on patients] at work) for the Simpson trip, but being an S8 drug, the doctor was reluctant to prescribe it. However he prescribed Tramal which can also be given IV or IM, which I had not thought of. Tramal is only an S4 drug and hence not as regulated.

Analgesia would certainly make it easier to get someone with a fracture out of the bush. We also carried Stemetil & Maxolon for nausea. Stemetil works on the central nervous system, and is better for motion sickness (imagine lying flat in the back of a 4WD in the Simpson!) and Maxolon works on the Gastointestinal system and is better for GIT upsets associated with drug side effects. Oral antibiotics were carried in case of chest or tooth infections, but we carried an IV broad spectrum antibiotic (Ceftriaxone) in case of large open wounds or burns.

If you're in a remote area, and have a good GP, you should be able to get something for major trauma. If you have a medical director at work, they may be able to assist.

You just have to be careful as a doctor must sign of and be responsible for any such prescribed painkiller and is ultimately responsible should it be used and kept incorrectly. Our penthrox, penthrane, methoxyflurane or whatever you want to call it comes in a pack with inhaler and 2 x 3mll ampules, highest dose you can give someone without a doctor. Scheduled drugs also must be kept locked up.
Wiil only look into it more seriously for remote trips(may ask our OHN when she gets back). I know most doctors are unlikely to give anyone authority below a nurse, from there we use it and are answerable to her and the doctor. Although most of us discussing this are paremedics or industrial paramedics so are trained to use them anyway. A broad range of pain relief would be great although not always practical. IV gear would be good as well but most often not neccessary.
:D

[4bee]

make you grumpier than normal, eh Des.


Just a bit, Rick.:eek:

[dobbo]

I really must get my eyes tested again. I wondered how pouring vinegar over my testicles was going to help with stings?

Then I realised........:eek: ;) :D


Useful info there.:)



No mate thats deep heat



ooooooooohh Yeeeeeaaaahhh:D

[hybrid disco]

One of the problems with being hit by a stingray barb is the removal of the
black sheath covering, this stays deep in the wound causing massive infection,

The best aplication for pain from any sting,etc from any marine creature is to
apply hot water, as hot as you can bear it.

Having had a job putting bandaids on sick persons (25 years) picked up a 45 year old that was hit in the leg by a stingray while crabbing, while monitored
he went from a normal sinus rythum, into VF and arrested, after being jumpstarted a few times he survived .

Seashells.