Vanos non functional after timing chain replacement M62

[FisherX]

So a bit of an update 6 months down the track on a timing chain and guides replacement on the M62TU

So I've been looking into a vanos issue I've had since doing the timing chains. I've been feeling like I've lost a bit of low down power and my fuel economy hasn't been great around town (fine on the highway @ 13.5p/100)

I'm having an issue with the "#1 cam timing over advanced" code on my car. Looks like it is shutting down my Vanos. When I watch the live data on my scan tool the vanos is working for the first 30sec from when I start it after I clear the codes but then the vanos is flat lining at 94%.

I was just about to recheck my timing today until I came across a youtube video where a guy set the timing with the Chinese timing kit (which is what I have) then rechecked it with the German Auto Solutions kit. Interesting that the #1 cam timing was off, #2 was very close.

So I've ordered cam wheel timing tools from German Auto Solutions and I'll recheck the timing when they arrive. I'll post an update when I get it done.

[knares]

hi
i to am having trouble with my no1 cam
what tool are you useing to get the "watch the live data on my scan tool"

[FisherX]

I've got a Launch X431 Pro V, but that unit is a bit pricey and probably more than most would ever need. I have it for my business although I don't specialise in cars but it really comes in handy.

I've also looked at the live data on the cam timing and #1 bank cam looks like it is 3 degrees advanced compared to #2 bank. Obviously that's enough to throw a code.


Check out the video at minute 45 to see where the guy compares the chinese timing kit to the German Auto Solutions.


Part 2: Timing The Engine - M62TU Timing Chain Guide Replacement - E53 Rescue - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96K4Zqy-TgQ)

https://www.amazon.com/LAUNCH-Bi-Directional-Tool-WiFi-Update-5-Warranty/dp/B07X8PD1LW?&currencyCode=AUD

[NUTTTR]

I assume you haven't tried the trick of just adjusting the timing wheel 1/8" further? I'm pretty sure I've seen that suggestion before... Personally I'd want to retime it!

[knares]

Hi
Just watched the video, very interesting
that would mean the cam was retarded
That was over ½ a hole out, could be my problem
I did make some chairs or stools or what ever, that use the same bolts to hold the timing pieces in place, I also made a simular tool to turn the vanos
it will be very interesting to hear how you go

[knares]

how did you go
what tool do you use to get " When I watch the live data on my scan tool the vanos is working for the first 30sec from when I start it after I clear the codes but then the vanos is flat lining at 94%." what tool do you use to get this info
thanks

[FisherX]

So the Vanos seal kit I bought off ebay is junk. The o rings are fine but the teflon seal is just flat without the recess to align it on the o ring. It's just about impossible to fit so I've ordered the Beisan Systems seal kit but have to wait for it to arrive. So the car is off the road atm waiting on the seals.

I did notice that the #1 intake cam was over advanced a bit when I reset the timing with the cam blocks and flywheel pin. I had to get a spanner on the cam and move it much more than the others to get it to line up in the locking block. I'm not sure how that happened but maybe I had slack in the chain or it wasn't sitting right when I did the timing last time. I'll double check that this time and time.

The scan tool I have to read the vanos is a Launch x432 Pro V.

I ordered the seals a week ago and they have left the US but I'm now in the hands of the black hole that is Australia Post.

I'll update when i can make progress.

[caleballen]

How is the rest of the Aliexpress timing chain kit holding up?

I'm about to undertake the timing chain & Vanos - would you reccomend purchasing the Aliexpress timing chain kit and the Besian Vanos o-rings, along with the German Auto Solutions timing tools?

Cheers

[FisherX]

OK so I'm a bit of a tight arse. And I'm sorry I've had a few beers tonight so I might not make much sense.

I'm an engineer (not just a book and class room engineer) and I do ALL the work on my cars myself. That means I don't have to pay for any labour costs, and don't have to guarantee my work on my own cars. If something fails, it's on me and I'll fix it.

I also run a small repair business, where I do guarantee my work. Would I use Aliexpress parts for my customers? Yes sometime on non critical components. But I can pass on the cost of genuine parts to the customer and the money I save on parts from China can offset any failures. I find the Aliexpress parts are 1/5th of the price of Australian 'aftermarket' parts.

My theory is that pretty much all aftermarket and some genuine parts and made in China anyway. I did buy a window regulator cheap for my wife's Freelander 2 from Aliexpress and you could see where they ground off the part that said LAND ROVER and just put a bit of paint over the top.

One of our members did post a photo of the timing kit for the M62 he got from europe and the packaging and part numbers were identical to the parts I got from Aliexpress. So I'm thinking it's the same stuff.

I've had the Aliexpress timing kit working on my RR for over 6 months and over 10K with no issue as far as the parts go. I found the parts to be quite good as far as the quality goes. The issue with the #1 over advanced looks like it was my screw up.

The Vanos kit I got from Ebay is junk but only cost $5 and the Beisan kit was $130 delivered so worth the risk.

I did the timing chain replacement with the 3 chains, 3 tensioners, guides and buying the tools for way under a grand. Even buying the German Solution timing kit I'm still under a grand.

SO in concision if I was doing my own work, yes I would take the risk on Chinese parts. If paying someone to do the work and giving them the parts to do the job. NO.

It's not a hard job. I'd say a 5 out 10. But it is very labour intensive. That is why it's a 5K job from a mechanic.

[caleballen]

Thank you for your detailed and considered response.

I sounds like we have a similar philosophy in regards to parts.

The only time I regret purchasing cheap parts was on my BMW X5. I purchased a cheap eBay fan regulator, and it didn't last very long at all. So I purchased a second one from a different vendor, and after installing the second one, the vehicle caught on fire.

Do you plan on replacing your Aliexpress timing kit after a certain amount of time / km's as a preventative maintenance thing? Or perhaps put another way, would you replace it any sooner than if you had purchased genuine or "recognised OEM" parts?

[FisherX]

I'm not planning on replacing the Ailexpess parts sooner than I would Genuine parts. The parts looked pretty good quality. My take is that if it is going to fail it would fail quickly. After 10,000km it should be fine.

[FisherX]

So I received the German Auto Solutions timing kit, the Beisan's Vanos seal and the gaskets I need.

I pulled the rocker covers and upper timing covers and checked the timing with the GAS kit as well as rechecked it with chinese kit. Both were spot on. So there was no problem with the chinese kit I have. I then pulled the Vanos units and redid the seals along with the press tool (thanks Glen). Reassembled it all and retimed with the GAS kit. I reset the adaptations before I started it up but silly me forgot to read the old adaptions as a base line before I did the reset.

I cranked it over a few times with the fuel pump relay pulled but after that the engine fired right up and ran smooth as silk and quieter than its ever been. I checked the vanos function while I was running an engine flush and all seemed well. I did an oil change and took it for a drive.

It didn't feel any different than before. Rescanned the ecm and yep fault code P0011 AND NOW P0021 . Both codes are cams over advanced or system performance. P0011 also says "Signal Low".

I pulled the rockers off again, locked the crank, set up the cam locks and checked the signal wheels through the inspection hole in the upper timing covers. All spot on.

Reassembled everything and have it running again. The signal low on #1 cam is strange so I have a few cam sensors on order just in case. Also the Beisans seal kit does say that the seal need 320km of city driving to break them in so I'll run a tank of fuel through it before I do anymore adjustments.

I have been looking at the adaption values of the cams and #1 bank is pegged at +12deg with #2 bank hovering between +9 & +11deg. I've been looking at the BMW forums and they are saying that a positive adaption value is retarded and the cam wheels need to be advanced even though the fault code says "over advanced".

Anyway I'll run it for a bit and get these seals broken in and then play with it a little more and sort this out.


Update: Checked the oil pressure just in case. All good. 55psi cold or hot.

[FisherX]

Ok I've now sorted out the issue I've been having with the non functional VANOS on the M62.

So first off I changed the cam sensors with some aftermarket ebay units. They are a little fatter on the sensor as to say they don't have the step in them like the BMW do. This adjusted the adaptations by about 5deg retarded. I guess the fatter sensor is picking up the trigger point a little earlier. This brought the adaptations to around +10deg on bank 1 and +4deg on bank 2.

It was no longer triggering code P0021 but still P0011. (I noted on a the test drive after changing the sensors that the fault codes are set when the adaptions hit 11deg)

I popped off the rocker cover on bank 1 and advanced the trigger wheel 1.5mm. This brought the adaptation numbers on bank 1 to -1deg.

Took it for a bit of a drive and all is well. No codes and both VANOS units operating between 58% under acceleration and 94% on the cruise. I can defiantly feel the difference in power below 3000rpm.

If I was to do the job again I wouldn't worry about spending the extra dollars on the German Auto Solutions kit and just use the Chinese kit. I would then expect the car to throw the cam codes and adjust them in either direction as per the adaption values.

Lessons learnt that even though the fault code states the cam is over advanced, looking at the positive adaption values the trigger wheel was actually retarded. Moving the trigger wheel 1.5mm is equal to 10deg of timing either way.

[FisherX]

A few have run into the same issue I had after the timing chain replacement on the M62.

Although using the correct cam timing tools and all the care in the world, the setting of the trigger wheels can still be out. This will cause timing faults P0011 and P0021 and a non functional Vanos system.

I was checking that my small Launch CRP scanner can read the adaption values like my bigger unit and it can. So I'll lend out the scanner for those in need like I loan out the timing tools.

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[knares]

am i right in thinking that as mine has a P0012 code, meaning it is retarded, then the timing plate needs turning anti clockwise
i would have thought it would need turning clockwise

[FisherX]

You can't believe the fault codes, you have to read the adaption values.

My car had cam to far advanced codes but in reality it was retarded.

Again a positive adaption value means the cam trigger with is retarded, a negative value is advanced.

An adaption value of over 11deg either way will shut down the vanos and throw a code.

[jmw]

what model small Launch CRP scanner are you using, I changed my timing chain and now have p0014 and 0015 , I would like to be able to see the vanos values and be able to reset the adaptions with a low cost scan tool I can buy . Also do you know of any scan tool that can rest the DME


A few have run into the same issue I had after the timing chain replacement on the M62.

Although using the correct cam timing tools and all the care in the world, the setting of the trigger wheels can still be out. This will cause timing faults P0011 and P0021 and a non functional Vanos system.

I was checking that my small Launch CRP scanner can read the adaption values like my bigger unit and it can. So I'll lend out the scanner for those in need like I loan out the timing tools.

177974177975177976177977177978177979