There's a push for truck drivers to be on the road 16 hours a day.

[bob10]

The regulator is promoting Advanced Fatigue Management to allow participants to set their own work and rest hours. As reported by the Brisbane times.




‘It is astounding': Push for truck drivers to be on the road for up to 16 hours a day (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/it-is-astounding-push-for-truck-drivers-to-be-on-the-road-for-up-to-16-hours-a-day/ar-AALdBwe?ocid=winp1taskbar)

[RobMichelle]

Shortage of drivers so I’m thinking they are trying to squeeze every hour out of us they can, maybe.
Bldy stupid in my opinion, hard enough to do 17 hour days 5 days a week not alone anymore. I’m glad I finally had enough sense to get out of it.

[V8Ian]

C'mon Bob, I thought you were better than that. The article is just fear mongering click bait, written by and for people who have absolutely no idea.
Western Australia has had similar, legal hours forever. Statistics do not indicate a higher incidence of fatigue related crashes than the eastern states.
There is no shortage of truck drivers, just a shortage of competent drivers prepared to work for the pittance and poor conditions offered by much of the industry.

[bob10]

C'mon Bob, I thought you were better than that. The article is just fear mongering click bait, written by and for people who have absolutely no idea.
Western Australia has had similar, legal hours forever. Statistics do not indicate a higher incidence of fatigue related crashes than the eastern states.
There is no shortage of truck drivers, just a shortage of competent drivers prepared to work for the pittance and poor conditions offered by much of the industry.

I'm not a truck driver, so the article may mean something, I can't second guess the truck industry. Does what the article say contain some truth? Is the WA system similar to the proposed Advanced Fatigue Management? Do you think that the AFM is the way of the future, although I see it has been in place since 2012. A report from the NHVR is supposed to claim the AFM is too costly, too difficult and time consuming. Do you work under the AFM system? You are the expert, I'd like to know more about this system.

[V8Ian]

Bob, fatigue management legislation is designed as a revenue raising method. It forces drivers to rest when they're not tired, consequently having to drive when their body wants to sleep.
Example, I was knocked off for fifteen minutes over legal hours. I was less than ten minutes from a road house that had showers, toilets, restaurant and shade to park under whilst I slept. The legislation expected me to park on a gravel pad, twenty-five metres from the highway, with the only facility being an overflowing forty-four being used as a rubbish bin and no shade. Which venue do you think gives the opportunity of quality rest/sleep, in the channel country?
What enforceable legislation exists to limit the hours of service staff in the multitude of sectors of other twenty-four hour industries, e.g. fridgies, sparkles, mechanics et al, or even a copper finishing a twelve hour shift in Sydney and heading straight off to Cairns, in one hit?
What legislation is there to limit the hours of duty in Defence?
The WA system works well, it's a common sense balance between fatigue management and getting the freight through, without forcing drivers to take extended rest breaks in he middle of nowhere.

[ChookD2]

AFM and BFM have been around for a while now. I have worked under BFM and it certainly gave me some additional flexibility in my day to day hours. I didn't have to do 14 hours in a given 24 hour period but the options was there and most days I took it. And I think that is how it should be, a driver decision not a company decision on what hours you complete in one day. It only takes an accident or some other unforeseen incident to mess up your day.

The only company that I know that went down the path of AFM was Simon, and part of the obligation was to have their entire fleet speed limited to 90km/h. Along with the additional administrative burden and stricter compliance issues this is why most companies only go down the BFM route. BFM also requires addition training for drivers and accreditation to implement but not quite as restrictive as AFM.

The other downside to this is that the average age of the long distance truck driver is climbing and if not in the low 50's is certainly in the high 40's. Most younger drivers only want to do local and short haul work. Then you get the drivers from...ummm.. overseas....... many of who (from my experience) should not have a heavy vehicle licence.

And then there are the consignors and consignees that want the job done in the shortest possible time (usually last minute) and at the cheapest price. These are the people the government should be targeting.

[Eevo]

There is no shortage of truck drivers, just a shortage of competent drivers prepared to work for the pittance and poor conditions offered by much of the industry.
ive heard this stated many times. how has it come about?

[Homestar]

ive heard this stated many times. how has it come about?

Because there’s an abundance of crappy second rate drivers prepared to work for a pittance. Think Taxi drivers with a larger vehicle...

Some of them can’t even back a single trailer - they will ask other drivers to help them. I watched one of these folk try and back a trailer into my mates workshop to have the brakes done - huge driveway, 5 meter wide roller door off a wide road in an industrial estate - he couldn’t do it, **** knows how he got his licence.

I can easy back my mates float in the same door and I don’t have a semi licence - only a medium rigid.

[V8Ian]

AFM and BFM have been around for a while now. I have worked under BFM and it certainly gave me some additional flexibility in my day to day hours. I didn't have to do 14 hours in a given 24 hour period but the options was there and most days I took it. And I think that is how it should be, a driver decision not a company decision on what hours you complete in one day. It only takes an accident or some other unforeseen incident to mess up your day.

The only company that I know that went down the path of AFM was Simon, and part of the obligation was to have their entire fleet speed limited to 90km/h. Along with the additional administrative burden and stricter compliance issues this is why most companies only go down the BFM route. BFM also requires addition training for drivers and accreditation to implement but not quite as restrictive as AFM.

The other downside to this is that the average age of the long distance truck driver is climbing and if not in the low 50's is certainly in the high 40's. Most younger drivers only want to do local and short haul work. Then you get the drivers from...ummm.. overseas....... many of who (from my experience) should not have a heavy vehicle licence.

And then there are the consignors and consignees that want the job done in the shortest possible time (usually last minute) and at the cheapest price. These are the people the government should be targeting.
Sitting
In
Misery
On
Ninety

Actually they're up to 95 now, but that's still a pain doing two-up, not being able to listen to the UHF or tunes, because old mate is sleeping. Don't know how anyone can sleep with someone else driving.

[V8Ian]

Shortage of drivers so I’m thinking they are trying to squeeze every hour out of us they can, maybe.
Bldy stupid in my opinion, hard enough to do 17 hour days 5 days a week not alone anymore. I’m glad I finally had enough sense to get out of it.
Nowhere in this country is it legal to do 5x17 hours a week, not even WA.

[ChookD2]

This article from 2019 states that the average age of truck drivers is now 53. The industry still has issues recruiting because it is not seen as a "fashionable" job or industry.

The Stats Behind Australia’s Driver Shortage - Teletrac Navman (https://www.teletracnavman.com.au/resources/blog/the-stats-behind-australia-s-driver-shortage)

[V8Ian]

Historically interstate/long distance drivers were passionate about their job/lifestyle, taking pride in their abilities and camaraderie. More recently, multinationals have taken over the freight task with the sole purpose of making money. Decent drivers were penalized for stopping to help another driver (car or truck) and the industry was stuffed. Along came the foreigners who couldn't drive, but we're willing to cut the rate at the same time, put two drivers in a truck and the bean counters expected an endless supply of cheap steering wheel attendants.

[Tote]

AFM and BFM have been around for a while now. I have worked under BFM and it certainly gave me some additional flexibility in my day to day hours. I didn't have to do 14 hours in a given 24 hour period but the options was there and most days I took it. And I think that is how it should be, a driver decision not a company decision on what hours you complete in one day. It only takes an accident or some other unforeseen incident to mess up your day.

The only company that I know that went down the path of AFM was Simon, and part of the obligation was to have their entire fleet speed limited to 90km/h. Along with the additional administrative burden and stricter compliance issues this is why most companies only go down the BFM route. BFM also requires addition training for drivers and accreditation to implement but not quite as restrictive as AFM.

The other downside to this is that the average age of the long distance truck driver is climbing and if not in the low 50's is certainly in the high 40's. Most younger drivers only want to do local and short haul work. Then you get the drivers from...ummm.. overseas....... many of who (from my experience) should not have a heavy vehicle licence.

And then there are the consignors and consignees that want the job done in the shortest possible time (usually last minute) and at the cheapest price. These are the people the government should be targeting.

That explains the Ron Finemore Woolworths trucks that create traffic chaos on the Barton highway during peak hour, limited to 90 and with an endless stream of idiots trailing them who feel the need to get past with limited overtaking opportunities. And I thought it was just because they were tightarses finding a way to save fuel.

Regards,
Tote

[Gav 110]

Whinge too much and there won’t be a job for “steering wheel attendants”

Autonomous trucks hit the highways, with Australian tech helping drive the revolution - ABC News (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/100218538)

You may be the one in the paddock picking the melons
[emoji525][emoji525][emoji525]

[Homestar]

Whinge too much and there won’t be a job for “steering wheel attendants”

Autonomous trucks hit the highways, with Australian tech helping drive the revolution - ABC News (https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/100218538)

You may be the one in the paddock picking the melons
[emoji525][emoji525][emoji525]

Still a way off I think - the tests in Aus still require an attendant behind the wheel (in fact 2 in the case shown in the link) - no legislation has been put through to allow any autonomous vehicles yet - I'm not sure how they overcome the liability bit - early talks suggested the OEM's would be liable but the OEM's have said 'No way' to that. Eventually this will start with depot to depot runs down highways so the requirement for drivers longer term will diminish, but I think their time frames are a little ambitious - like most time frames the autonomous lobby keep harping on about. 5 years ago they said they would be going in 5 years - now it's still 3 years away - If I was a betting man, I'd say 9 to 10 at least.

Edit - here's a news article from 6 years ago - saying that depot to depot autonomous trucks were just around the corner. The World'''s First Self-Driving Semi-Truck Hits the Road | WIRED (https://www.wired.com/2015/05/worlds-first-self-driving-semi-truck-hits-road/) This truck had a driver that was only required to be there if the truck couldn't manage something, but in 6 years all we've got to is a truck load of Melons being driven across the States.

Also worth noting is how quiet the OEM's have gone regarding driverless cars in the last 12 months with the issues Tesla are having and the continuing Law Suits regarding this - I think they are sitting and waiting to see where the Courts think the blame lies when people are killed by the tech.

[V8Ian]

In this country there will have to be billions spent to upgrade roads. Simple blacked out lines and roadwork detours confuse the tech. Once all that has been overcome, drivers will have to be replaced with security guards.

[bob10]

Bob, fatigue management legislation is designed as a revenue raising method. It forces drivers to rest when they're not tired, consequently having to drive when their body wants to sleep.
Example, I was knocked off for fifteen minutes over legal hours. I was less than ten minutes from a road house that had showers, toilets, restaurant and shade to park under whilst I slept. The legislation expected me to park on a gravel pad, twenty-five metres from the highway, with the only facility being an overflowing forty-four being used as a rubbish bin and no shade. Which venue do you think gives the opportunity of quality rest/sleep, in the channel country?
What enforceable legislation exists to limit the hours of service staff in the multitude of sectors of other twenty-four hour industries, e.g. fridgies, sparkles, mechanics et al, or even a copper finishing a twelve hour shift in Sydney and heading straight off to Cairns, in one hit?
What legislation is there to limit the hours of duty in Defence?
The WA system works well, it's a common sense balance between fatigue management and getting the freight through, without forcing drivers to take extended rest breaks in he middle of nowhere.

Thanks Ian. Didn't mean to open old wounds mate. But these are things that should be told, truck drivers should not suffer in silence.

[RobMichelle]

Nowhere in this country is it legal to do 5x17 hours a week, not even WA.

Do you only work 14 hours?
You know you are on the go for 17 hours from start of book till end, total time. 7 hour mandatory rest break.
I’m tapping out we drivers know what we do, after 34 years, last two doing road trains at 90km, to Melb wharves and Bordertown Naracoorte backing road train into newly built wharf complex at Vict I’ve had enough of it all, the anguish and mental health and physical health problems one endures can be very overwhelming for a mere human.
The camaraderie has gone, duck shoving and cutting in on people is the new way, I’m old school and am happy to stay that way.
I’m tip my hat to those that still love it, I have many a friend in this category.

Rob

[ChookD2]

Instead of more drivers we'll just make the trucks bigger.

Goulburn B-triple trial to Coles DC raises safety fears | Goulburn Post | Goulburn, NSW (https://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/6869157/big-rigs-on-highway-will-be-triple-the-trouble-says-mcdonald/)

When I was driving there was talk of making the entire Hume Hwy from outer Sydney to outer Melbourne a B-triple route, with staging areas at each end where they could be split and coupled. This was supposed to be looked at further once the Hwy was dual carriage all the way, which it now is and bypasses all towns.

[Homestar]

Instead of more drivers we'll just make the trucks bigger.

Goulburn B-triple trial to Coles DC raises safety fears | Goulburn Post | Goulburn, NSW (https://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/6869157/big-rigs-on-highway-will-be-triple-the-trouble-says-mcdonald/)

When I was driving there was talk of making the entire Hume Hwy from outer Sydney to outer Melbourne a B-triple route, with staging areas at each end where they could be split and coupled. This was supposed to be looked at further once the Hwy was dual carriage all the way, which it now is and bypasses all towns.

Yay, 90 tonnes with a muppet behind the wheel - what could go wrong??? [bigrolf]

Not having a go at truck drivers here - but you know this is where something like this will lead - the good drivers are getting harder and harder to come by - you'd get a glorified taxi driver with little spacial awareness behind the wheel as the pool of drivers thins out as more and more trucks go to 2 or 3 trailers. I don't trust a lot of them with one trailer, let alone 3.

And we know if Coles or Woolies is pushing for this, then it's all about the almighty dollar so they won't be looking for the top talent that can drive these rigs safely - the'll be looking for the ones that take the least money - which is directly related to their skill level.

[Eevo]

Instead of more drivers we'll just make the trucks bigger.

Goulburn B-triple trial to Coles DC raises safety fears | Goulburn Post | Goulburn, NSW (https://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/6869157/big-rigs-on-highway-will-be-triple-the-trouble-says-mcdonald/)

When I was driving there was talk of making the entire Hume Hwy from outer Sydney to outer Melbourne a B-triple route, with staging areas at each end where they could be split and coupled. This was supposed to be looked at further once the Hwy was dual carriage all the way, which it now is and bypasses all towns.


isnt this how trains work?

[Homestar]

isnt this how trains work?

And the Sydney to Melbourne rail line runs pretty close to the Hume most of the way.

[ChookD2]

isnt this how trains work?


And the Sydney to Melbourne rail line runs pretty close to the Hume most of the way.

But can't do depot to depot overnight, which is what everyone wants.[bigwhistle]

[Homestar]

But can't do depot to depot overnight, which is what everyone wants.[bigwhistle]

What the tight wad companies want - less transit time equals more profits - everything is driven by big corporations wanting ever bigger profits.

[350RRC]

What the tight wad companies want - less transit time equals more profits - everything is driven by big corporations wanting ever bigger profits.

Rail general freight lost out to road when dispatch to delivery could be door to door, especially delivery.

Close relatives ran Darling Smith at the railhead in Ballarat. DS went from horse and cart to truck deliveries from train to door, pretty much had a monopoly and no longer exist.

cheers, DL

[d2dave]

Yay, 90 tonnes with a muppet behind the wheel - what could go wrong??? [bigrolf]



I'm regularly hauling 65 tons up the Hume. Whats another 25 between friends.

AS for the 16 hours a day. I can legally do 15.

[Homestar]

I'm regularly hauling 65 tons up the Hume. Whats another 25 between friends.

AS for the 16 hours a day. I can legally do 15.

Yeah, but you’re not a muppet - far from it - I’m sure you see more of the drivers I was referring to than me, but even with the part time stuff I do at my mates workshop I see enough of them.