Driveshaft Advice

[LandRohan]

Hey everyone,

So I've just purchased a MY03 Disco 2 and am getting myself up to speed on all the usual issues so that I can hopefully take care of them before things go pear shaped. It's a bit of a project car but seems drives decent enough at the moment.

The good news is it already seems to have a 180 thermostat installed along with new silicone hoses for the cooling system. The bad news is that the driveshaft is looking like it needs to be replaced. I've attached some photos, my question is:

Does this definitely need to be replaced or is there any point in trying to clean these? And then once cleaned look into whether or not to rebuild with new u joints etc?

Mostly concerned about the amount of grease and oil that is gunked onto the u joints (and everywhere under there), particularly up front where it attaches to the brake drum. Surely that's not a healthy drive shaft? I have no experience with this sort of work (please be kind haha) but my first thought its that they are super far gone and I should try and replace them asap. Please let me know if I'm wrong though.

As I said, the car currently drives decent enough, the only real issue is a lot of vibrations when idling at lights most of the time, once you hit the accelerator it's fine though. I've heard vibrations at higher speeds can be driveshaft issues but not while idling... Possibly needs new engine mounts?

Anyway plan of attack at the moment is to clean the engine bay and underbody as thoroughly as I can and then start to try and track down and sort out the oil leaks. Was planning on using a de greaser spray to help me do this as there is a lot of oil and grease under there! There's also a bunch of rust which I plan on grinding off with a wire brush attachment on a drill, and then treating as well. I was told by a home mechanic friend of mine that all the rust under there is fine and not a major issue so hopefully he knew what he was talking about haha.

Anyway would love to hear your thoughts, thanks in advance!

Cheers

Rohan

171899171900171901171902

[scarry]

Welcome to the forum.

Check those uni joints carefully,particularly the front double one,many have come apart and caused extensive damage to other parts of the vehicle.If you can’t check them out yourself,have a Land Rover Indie look at them for you,as soon as possible.

Good luck with it all,and have fun with your new ride.[thumbsupbig]

[Slunnie]

Personally, I cant see anything that indicates a typical failure of the joints. These look like aftermarket servicable joints and they look like they have been regularly greased up judging by the excess around the joints. The rotoflex on the rear looks fine to me also.

That said, you'd have a far more accurate idea by seeing and feeling the joint.

[PhilipA]

Nice dry rear pinion seal but a bit of rust around.
Make sure the aircon drain is not draining onto the double cardan joint, and route a hose from the drain away if this has not already been done. That front shaft is a replacement one. Ditto the other side which drains onto the XYZ switch.
I had an acquaintance go through about 4 shafts before he rerouted the drain. great pommie design.

The vibration at idle is probably the engine mounts.

The front uni on the rear shaft is easy to replace but they last forever as there is little deflection of the driveshaft.
Regards PhilipA

[AK83]

One thing to note with the rear rubber donut(rotoflex), which I read about, saw in videos, and then experienced myself.

When replacing the rotoflex, it should be done in total, that is not just the rubber ring, but the inner bush and the centralising pin as well.
Rotoflex is easiest thing to replace, and as long as you have the correct sized tools for the nuts/bolts, can be done easily out in the bush.
centralising pin wasn't easy, but also not hard. an appropriate bolt to screw into the pin end and something to brace the bolt to the diff housing and it slides off easily.
The bush can be a total PITA and pig of a job tho, and most likely would need to be chiselled out.

Most folks don't do it all, as it's just a few minutes work to do the rotoflex on it's own, and can be hours doing the bush.

I was sevicing my D1 one day and pushed this, prodded that and found my rotoflex, whilst still looking OK, when flexed a bit showed many hairline cracks in it. Only when removing it did I then notice a half a mm of play in the uni-joint(at the drum brake) too.

Ahhh! I had the parts, so on went a new spare rotoflex and a new unijoint too. I shouldn't have done it. D1 then vibrated like mad at highway-ish speeds .. basically 80k/h and up.

I didn't really check(didn't really know!) that the spare rotoflex, someone gave to me, wasn't an original/GKN branded unit. No matter, as a spare it's only purpose was to 'get me home'. D1 is my daily so I needed more than that.
So I got all the bits, genuine/GKN branded roto, plus the pin and bush. God damned bush! Arghhh! ... anyhow. Once all fitted up, smooth as silk(considering it's a tdi! [biggrin])

My spares rotoflex has no markings on it at all.. zero, not even the direction arrows(which it should). No idea what brand as a spare it'll do tho.

Moral of this diatribe: don't assume the last person who did the work did it out of love/care ... more likely save $s which means probably found the cheapest parts!

I say this just to warn you that .. a failed double cardan joint is going to be massively costly. If in doubt, no matter if it's feeling and looking new .. I'd recommend changing it!
Peace of mind, so to speak.

The bearing for the cardan joint is not easy to find, but can be got, and isn't the easiest thing to replace either.

vibes at idle: more than just the engine really. What gearbox? (auto/manual?). TD5's have hydro type engine mounts. You haven't said what engine? Liek Philip said, engine mounts can cause excessive vibes at idle, but I'd have thought maybe even more with faster engine speed too(dunno).

if a TD5 does it idle smoothly, as in seems to be firing evenly? Maybe a video of the engine idling so that someone can assess if it's misfiring, which will cause vibrations.

eg. if yours is a V8 and say a lead has gone dead, or coil pack misfiring, then of course the V8 will misfire and vibrate. TD5 can have similar happenings for various reasons.

[Ronski]

Mostly concerned about the amount of grease and oil that is gunked onto the u joints (and everywhere under there), particularly up front where it attaches to the brake drum. Surely that's not a healthy drive shaft?

I agree with others, they look fine to me. excess grease around uni joint is a good thing, joints have been regularly done.
Grease is forced in via the nipple using grease gun, normal to continue until visible sign of it squeezing out.
some mechanics then clean off the excess, most don't bother.

I'd be more concerned if they were completely dry.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Listen for a squeak at drive off, shiney and/or red is bad.. get under and give it all a shake...

[Bohica]

When my front shaft went, it sounded like a flock of starlings under the bonnet. The second one, when it went gave a vibration at 50kph up.
As has been said, give it a good shake.

[David J H]

Hi,
I would be inclined to check that the front propshaft double cardon joint is fully greaseable including the centre spherical joint between the 2 UJs. Tom Woods does one from the USA with this, and GKN units can be sourced from the UK but I've lost the part numbers.
Good luck,
David.

[V8Ian]

Driveline Services can build a shaft, with a heavier DC joint. Equal to the Tom Woods but made in Australia with a quality English DC.

[LandRohan]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Sounds like the driveshafts are all good. Would like to replace them at some point, for piece of mind (as mentioned), but if that build up of grease is actually a good thing then it doesn't look like I need to stress too much about it as that was my main concern...

I did give them a good shake and they essentially didn't move at all, but car was not jacked up, so will try that again next time I've got it up.

I might try and clean that build up of grease off though. Will just some de greaser spray and then a pressure hose be fine? Should I worry about re greasing them via the grease nipples after that? Or will they be fine, assuming they were greased fairly recently anyway? Which I believe they were...

As for the vibrations, I'm still trying to diagnose but sounds like engine mounts are the likely culprit. Its an Auto, although one interesting side note is that it has a TDI badge on the back, not a TD5. Despite my serial number showing that it has a TD5 engine. Is that common?

Anyway it has the usual vibrations (I'm assuming) of an old diesel 4wd in park and neutral but another level of it kicks in when I shift into drive. Seems to idle fine though. Revs are very consistent, no clicking or clacking noises ever, no knocking. So seems to be firing evenly. The only change in engine noise ever is that the car does some chugging is when it's still a bit cold and I take my foot off the accelerator after a long climb up a hill. That usually disappears after it's warmed up though.

Thanks again for all the help. Really appreciate it. Absolutely loving the disco so far!

[Slunnie]

As for the vibrations, I'm still trying to diagnose but sounds like engine mounts are the likely culprit. Its an Auto, although one interesting side note is that it has a TDI badge on the back, not a TD5. Despite my serial number showing that it has a TD5 engine. Is that common?

Did they fit a Discovery 1 Tdi rear door? Does it have a key hole in the rear door? A Discovery 2 Td5 rear door shouldn't have a keyhole. Unless it has had a repair..

[V8Ian]

Did they fit a Discovery 1 Tdi rear door? Does it have a key hole in the rear door? A Discovery 2 Td5 rear door shouldn't have a keyhole. Unless it has had a repair..
I don't think the doors are interchangeable, only the skin is common.

A Tdi is a four cylinder, Td5 obviously a five. Impossible to confuse the two.

[Slunnie]

I don't think the doors are interchangeable, only the skin is common.

A Tdi is a four cylinder, Td5 obviously a five. Impossible to confuse the two.

Hmmm, there you go.

[Bohica]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Sounds like the driveshafts are all good. Would like to replace them at some point, for piece of mind (as mentioned), but if that build up of grease is actually a good thing then it doesn't look like I need to stress too much about it as that was my main concern...

I did give them a good shake and they essentially didn't move at all, but car was not jacked up, so will try that again next time I've got it up.

I might try and clean that build up of grease off though. Will just some de greaser spray and then a pressure hose be fine? Should I worry about re greasing them via the grease nipples after that? Or will they be fine, assuming they were greased fairly recently anyway? Which I believe they were...

As for the vibrations, I'm still trying to diagnose but sounds like engine mounts are the likely culprit. Its an Auto, although one interesting side note is that it has a TDI badge on the back, not a TD5. Despite my serial number showing that it has a TD5 engine. Is that common?

Anyway it has the usual vibrations (I'm assuming) of an old diesel 4wd in park and neutral but another level of it kicks in when I shift into drive. Seems to idle fine though. Revs are very consistent, no clicking or clacking noises ever, no knocking. So seems to be firing evenly. The only change in engine noise ever is that the car does some chugging is when it's still a bit cold and I take my foot off the accelerator after a long climb up a hill. That usually disappears after it's warmed up though.

Thanks again for all the help. Really appreciate it. Absolutely loving the disco so far!
Why remove the corrosion protection?

[PhilipA]

I might try and clean that build up of grease off though. Will just some de greaser spray and then a pressure hose be fine?
No it will not.
Just leave it.
The only problem that can be caused by too much grease is that the splines can be overgreased and lock up at less than full compression.
Old seals on a UJ will not like pressure washers or degreaser. The grease can be washed out.
When you consider that most Double Cardans fail from just the aircon drain dripping on them you can get the picture.
Regards PhilipA
If you insist on clean Ujs(balls) then just wipe them over with a rag.

[V8Ian]

As Philip has said, wipe them clean with a rag. Excess grease will attract dirt that quickly turns into a grinding paste.

[d2dave]

What AK83 said is good advise. When changing the doughnut the spiggot in the diff and the bush in the tailshaft should be changed.

I removed my inner bush using a die grinder and grinding away one side of bush.

I got sick of changing doughnuts so I got a tailshaft and diff flange from a RR Classic and got rid of it.

Both my D1and D2 have this mod done.

As for your rear tailshaft in the pics, all looks ok to me. However, the best was to check uni's is to remove the shaft.

And has been stated the front one is what really needs regular checking. I know of one that showed no symptoms and let go, destroying the auto transmission in the process.

I have a Tom Woods front shaft in mine. They are very pricey, but when I am in they middle of nowhere, it is piece of mind that I am unlikely to be stranded with a hole in my Transmission.

As for relocating air con drains. I don't subscribe to this theory. We regularly drive through rivers and drive on rainy days. Surely this is no different to water from air con.

And as others have said, your vibration at idle is probably engine mounts. If you don't use expensive genuine ones, you fix won't last long.

[PhilipA]

For the sake of about 300MM each side of black irrigation tube and a bit of super glue, I do not see why you wouldn't relocate the aircon drains.
Mine didn't have the mod when I bought the car 7 years ago and I immediately did the mod. One trunnion on my double Cardan recently went at 215Kk. I bought the car with 134KK. I know that this doesn't prove my point but I am being honest. I think some water damage had been done by 134KK on the original shaft but it then lasted quite a while.
I have never had a problem with my XYZ switch.
On the other hand I advised a friend to do it after he had done 3 front driveshafts in about 50KK. He thought it had been done until he looked, and he has now done the mod.
Regards PhilipA

[LandRohan]

Ok, only rub them down with a rag it is! Makes sense that you want to keep the grease of course but that front U joint looks like it's collected so much dirt that it's slowly turning into cement... So will clear some of it away at least... I'll try and check that the centre spherical joint is greaseable too. Would love to replace with a tom woods at some point but will have to wait until I've got some more cash lying around. Also looks like tom woods aren't making them at the moment due to unavailability of the weld yoke so not sure I could get one if I wanted to...

As for the rear door, no key hole, so the TDI badge still doesn't make sense. It's definitely a TD5 engine. I'll probably just remove that one and replace it with a TD5 badge at some point... Weird tho...

Engine mounts, I'm tossing up whether to try and replace myself or not. They're hard to get a good look at without removing parts so can't be 100% certain that they're shot but if I'm doing it myself I might as well replace them if I'm gonna get all the way in there. Just concerned about finding the right place to jack the engine up from. Obviously a winch would be better but thats a whole thing onto itself. And if that's the only way to do it then I'd just as soon pay a mechanic as it's probably pretty unlikely that I'll use a winch again... Either way, should I definitely use genuine engine mounts? They look to be a whopping $242 each from british auto parts while aftermarket ones are just $75 at bearmach... Pretty huge disparity...

Oh and looks like the air con has already been re routed. The air con water leaks from a new looking plain black pvc pipe that's been zip locked to the frame on one side, away from the U joints. I'll investigate further but my initial thought it that it's probably already been done...

Thanks again for all the advice!

[PhilipA]

You can tell if the engine mounts are OK by looking upwards at them.
There is a hole in the middle of the bottom.
If the rubber inside is resting on the hole then they are finished.
if there is a gap above the hole then they are OK.
Regards PhilipA
BTW your front driveshaft looks like a GKN with those retainer rings which are the same as my GKN. If so there is no lubrication to the centre bearing, but usually it is not needed. The failure point is the UJs.

[Roverlord off road spares]

As for relocating air con drains. I don't subscribe to this theory. We regularly drive through rivers and drive on rainy days. Surely this is no different to water from air con.

.

.
The difference when driving in rain or on river crossings with the vehicle driving it's prop shaft on rotation produces centrifugal force to fling water off it (like a spin dryer).

When a Disco is parked there is condensate that drips down on to the unis below, nothing is there to spin it off. Condensate drips for a while. A fair bit of water comes out as seen by puddles where cars park .

[Bohica]

.
The difference when driving in rain or on river crossings with the vehicle driving it's prop shaft on rotation produces centrifugal force to fling water off it (like a spin dryer).

When a Disco is parked there is condensate that drips down on to the unis below, nothing is there to spin it off. Condensate drips for a while. A fair bit of water comes out as seen by puddles where cars park .

So much so that on a humid day, I thought I had a fluid leak!