Ongoing Immobiliser Problems 130 Puma

[Chenz]

Well my 130 is back at the dealership which shall remain nameless (last time I mentioned them I got put in the naughty room). This is the third time. The same issue keeps occurring. I start the vehicle and it immediately stalls. Turn the key, nothing. Take the key out lock, wait till red light on dash stops flashing, unlock, put key in ignition, start.

The problem above was occurring every 30 starts, hot and cold, then 20 then almost every time then it would not start no matter how many times I did the lock unlock. So I go to the dealer and they state I need a new immobiliser. Pay the big bucks, get it done and OK for a month or two then it happens again. Back it goes and the they say it was a rear door actuator that triggered it. Off I go again. Happens again, and so on and so on.

I asked them to get rid of the immobiliser, I don't want or need one. They refuse to do this. I am now waiting for them to call me. They have had it for three days and no word so far.

Can you bypass or get rid of the bloody thing. I have had it and have no confidence going remote with it as I fear it will again prevent it from proceeding in a forward direction.

Any advice would be welcomed.

Thanks

[NovaRover]

Hi Chenz , I had a similar issue and it was as simple as changing the key fob remote battery.

[sashadidi]

+1 on the key fob battery and I change mine every 18 months,one other time when I had funny starting but not as regularly as your pattern was the starting battery on the way out... and one time in a BP station under a roof and I
Had to push it away from the outdoor roof to start it which I had read about on here regarding bluetooth interference. Good luck

[Samblers]

If your side indicator/ repeater lights don't flash upon locking, then key fob battery needs changing. This is in the manual.

Hope this helps

[Chenz]

+1 on the key fob battery and I change mine every 18 months,one other time when I had funny starting but not as regularly as your pattern was the starting battery on the way out... and one time in a BP station under a roof and I
Had to push it away from the outdoor roof to start it which I had read about on here regarding bluetooth interference. Good luck
When the replaced the immobiliser with a brand new one, it came with two new fobs and they changed the battery the first time they had it back. It does in open paddocks, my driveway and in a garage

[Chenz]

Thanks for the suggested issue. Unfortunately its not the fob. They have now had it two weeks and cant get the fault to repeat. They are seeking technical advice from England. Its amazing that it never happens when at the dealer

[POD]

I believe it is possible to disable the immobiliser function, there was discussion about this several years ago when a few people (myself included) were getting these vehicles and worrying about this very problem occurring. No way a dealer will do it, maybe search the BBS website or email them (makers of nanocom). Mine did it the first week I bought it, I had left it parked with the key in the ignition. Another time it happened there was a blown fuse under the driver's seat (so worth checking for a dodgy connection or broken wire in that circuit).
My wife's 2018 Mazda 3 did this from new, only ever did it when I was using it so to me it was obviously one faulty fob as we each had our own key. Took me several visits to the dealer and threats of legal action to get them to supply a new fob which solved the problem.

[MLD]

BAS UK can de-immobilise the Puma 2.4 (not the 2.2).

[DiscoMick]

If you lock it with the key, not the fob, the immobiliser should be off.

[incisor]

Its amazing that it never happens when at the dealer

well known phenomenon

i experience it all the time as a computer tech

had one yesterday in fact, windows machine that would not accept a login password (for 3 days), till i walked into the room and it magically worked...

i kid you not...

[POD]

Yeah I got this repeatedly from the Mazda dealer...'Cannot replicate the fault'. Three times I did the two-hour round trip to the dealer and got this answer.
The last time, I had a near-tantrum; 'I can't replicate the #@$*^ fault either, except at a time most inconvenient to myself, like when I have just picked up my daughter from the airport after a 22-hour flight, or when I have just staggered out to the car after a 16-hour night shift, and I never know whether the *^#@ car is going to start or not, making it the most unreliable car I have ever owned'. I had to push very hard to get a replacement fob supplied. Zero problems since.

[Chenz]

well known phenomenon

i experience it all the time as a computer tech

had one yesterday in fact, windows machine that would not accept a login password (for 3 days), till i walked into the room and it magically worked...

i kid you not...

Extremely frustratapating

[Chenz]

Yeah I got this repeatedly from the Mazda dealer...'Cannot replicate the fault'. Three times I did the two-hour round trip to the dealer and got this answer.
The last time, I had a near-tantrum; 'I can't replicate the #@$*^ fault either, except at a time most inconvenient to myself, like when I have just picked up my daughter from the airport after a 22-hour flight, or when I have just staggered out to the car after a 16-hour night shift, and I never know whether the *^#@ car is going to start or not, making it the most unreliable car I have ever owned'. I had to push very hard to get a replacement fob supplied. Zero problems since.

They rang me tell me it wont fault there. I said I am in lockdown and I don't want it back until you find the fault and fix it. All up it has cost me about $5K and it is still happening.

[Chenz]

If you lock it with the key, not the fob, the immobiliser should be off.

Thanks but been there done that, not the problem or solution. One time it would not start despite all the key in key out lock unlock with key or fob. Called NRMA to get a tow back to Sydney from Nowra. The NRMA mechanic came out and popped the bonnet a couple of times till the alarm went off and then presto it fired.

Not exactly my idea of a fix. I can imagine stalling at a set of lights or somewhere and having to get out and open and close the bonnet at get the alarm to go off.

[Chenz]

BAS UK can de-immobilise the Puma 2.4 (not the 2.2).

I emailed them seeking information. Will see what they come up with. Long way to go to get them to do it LOL

[Chenz]

I received a response from BAS in England who stated:

Hi
Assuming all wiring is good we can remove the immo need from the engine ecu via out remap tool.

The tool basic plane blank hardware is listed here £250 BAS2 RRC Tool Hardware Only Add-On - Bell Auto Services, BAS Remaps, Independent Land Rover Specialist In York , Service, Repairs, Custom Remaps York, Performance upgrades, BAS Landrover tuning. (https://bellautoservices.co.uk/store/bas2-rrc-hardware-only-add-on/)

You would need am immobliser addon on top of that for £300 totalling £550.

Variable Priced Payment - Bell Auto Services, BAS Remaps, Independent Land Rover Specialist In York , Service, Repairs, Custom Remaps York, Performance upgrades, BAS Landrover tuning. (https://bellautoservices.co.uk/store/variable-priced-payment/)

Not quite sure though on how I would use this to do the intended purpose. I have little or no experience in remapping and would not feel confident in doing this on my own.

[Tombie]

You load the software on phone or tablet.
Plug module in,
Connect battery to a charger,
Select “flash ecu”
Follow the prompts.

Job done.

And then you have a nice diagnostic tool, and can also have the options to have EGR closed and / or a tube loaded.

[Chenz]

You load the software on phone or tablet.
Plug module in,
Connect battery to a charger,
Select “flash ecu”
Follow the prompts.

Job done.

And then you have a nice diagnostic tool, and can also have the options to have EGR closed and / or a tube loaded.


Thanks Yeah but how do you disable or override the immobiliser?

[plusnq]

Thanks Yeah but how do you disable or override the immobiliser?


it’s done by the software update you load.

[Tombie]

Thanks Yeah but how do you disable or override the immobiliser?

The software reprograms in the ECU, and tells it to no longer look for the immobiliser signal before starting.

[DiscoMick]

This might be wrong, but your comment about the guy opening and closing the bonnet reminded me we had the alarm sensor under the bonnet which only works when the bonnet is closed fail on us.
Replacing the sensor fixed the problem. If the sensor is faulty maybe it does not turn off the immobiliser?
Just a thought.
Thanks but been there done that, not the problem or solution. One time it would not start despite all the key in key out lock unlock with key or fob. Called NRMA to get a tow back to Sydney from Nowra. The NRMA mechanic came out and popped the bonnet a couple of times till the alarm went off and then presto it fired.

Not exactly my idea of a fix. I can imagine stalling at a set of lights or somewhere and having to get out and open and close the bonnet at get the alarm to go off.

[MLD]

Not quite sure though on how I would use this to do the intended purpose. I have little or no experience in remapping and would not feel confident in doing this on my own.

I run the GAP diagnostic tool sold through BAS UK. Wasn't cheap to buy the license and ECU remap. As a diagnostic tool and live data tool it has saved my bacon in remote Oz a few times. I wouldn't travel remote without a means to fault find. Money well spent imo.

Tombie has described the remapping process. it really is simple as plugging in the bluetooth dongle into the OBD2 plug, launch app, turn on ignition and let the 2 talk to each other. While i don't change maps very often (almost never now it's set up), i've not had it fault out on me leaving it partially re-coded.

[DazzaTD5]

*Was the switch on the back of the key barrel changed? This is a common fault.
*As the TDCi (puma) 2.4 uses the same imobiliser as the previous model TD5, any repairer that has the tools to turn off the handshake on a TD5 can do a 2.4

*you really need to find a repairer that has a clue about Defenders... [tonguewink]

[Chenz]

*Was the switch on the back of the key barrel changed? This is a common fault.
*As the TDCi (puma) 2.4 uses the same imobiliser as the previous model TD5, any repairer that has the tools to turn off the handshake on a TD5 can do a 2.4

*you really need to find a repairer that has a clue about Defenders... [tonguewink]

You would have thought one of the biggest Land Rover dealerships and service workshops in Sydney would be bale to diagnose and rectify this. They have had it there for a month now and claim they test it daily but are unable to get it fault when there. I know I will pick it up and it will do it again.

This is driving me nuts.

[DazzaTD5]

You would have thought one of the biggest Land Rover dealerships and service workshops in Sydney would be bale to diagnose and rectify this.

No I wouldn't have thought that for a minute [tonguewink]

[Chenz]

Well after having the vehicle for a month they can't get the immobiliser fault to replicate. They have now decided to replace the immobiliser with a brand new one. This has to come from England so will be a week or two arriving. We will see if this is the issue - I doubt it but anyway worth a try.

[Chenz]

Latest update - The tell me me they have been in touch with the technical department in England who have diagnosed the fault - they think. Apparently they say that when locking and unlocking the vehicle with the fob, the Australian set up as opposed to the European set up sends a signal to the ECU to make the blinkers flash and this is also supposed to tell the immobiliser to disengage. They say that there is a fault in this whereby the lights activating causes an issue and does not disable the immobiliser all the time?????? Go figure. They say they were able to get the vehicle to fault a number of times and once they reset the system the fault went away.

This would appear to be a cheaper solution for them as they now say there is no need to replace the immobiliser which would cost them around $3000. I pick it up tomorrow and they want me to monitor it and see if this fault does not happen again.

Here is hoping as I am planning to do another EDJIT Simpson adventure fairly remote next winter.

[Chenz]

174762

Well like Gomer Pyle once said, Surprise Surprise Surprise. First trip out the same immobiliser fault reoccurred, yet again 4 times. Back to the highly reputable Land Rover service team who will no doubt re-consult the Book of Armaments, the entrails of chickens and dusty fortune telling cards for the next installment of "We can work it out" - not.

I keep telling them - override or bypass the immobilizer, I don't want it, I don't need it but they won't do it.

The frustration level is now on full overload.

[DazzaTD5]

I keep telling them - override or bypass the immobilizer, I don't want it, I don't need it but they won't do it.

The frustration level is now on full overload.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

You could fix this by taking it somewhere else.

[Chenz]

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

You could fix this by taking it somewhere else.

The new immobiliser cost me over $4000 to have replaced and is still a warranty issue. So you think I should turn my back on that and go somewhere else.

[DazzaTD5]

The new immobiliser cost me over $4000 to have replaced and is still a warranty issue. So you think I should turn my back on that and go somewhere else.

It's either A: costing you over $4000 OR B: its a warranty issue and costing you nothing, you are not being clear as to which it is.

If its costing YOU nothing, sure go for it. Keep in mind what they are doing is fitting the latest (complicated) fix for the Defender, so if/when it takes a dump many years later out of warranty then you are likely to be more screwed.

Simplicity would be my pick though...

[plusnq]

As a follow up to this post, I purchased the immobiliser software disable from BAS for my 2011 2.4 Puma. Pretty simple install and seems to work as I can start the vehicle with only the key and the key fob nowhere near the vehicle. I am pretty happy as it removes one of my concerns when travelling remotely.

[skidrov]

Is that reversible? So it can be on in evil suburbia, but off when remote?

[plusnq]

Is that reversible? So it can be on in evil suburbia, but off when remote?

Not as far as I am aware. Mine is not a daily driver. But i do use a kill switch. Really they will tow it if they want it.

[Chenz]

The saga continues. On our latest trip to outback NSW the Defender refused to start. Turn the key it cranks fires then immediately stalls. Tried the remove the key lock wait till the red light stops flashing unlock replace key - same issue. After walking some considerable distance to get phone coverage, contacted the NRMA who sent out a rep a few hours later - took him a while to find me as I was down some track of the road. He plugged his Snap-On scanner unit into the ECU port, tuned on the ignition and found the following two fault codes - neither of which my Nanocom unit identified
180883
He pressed some buttons, cleared the codes and presto she fired straight up. He tested the battery and found that on cranking it dropped voltage. At the next large town I purchased a new crank battery and installed it. The NRMA guy also told me to buy an OBD2 scanner which he says can identify and clear the fault codes if the same thing happens again. The fault occurred again a few times but the lock unlock had me going again so no need to get the OBD2 scanner out.
I sent this information to the dealer who shall remain nameless and they claim neither of these two fault codes should trigger the refuse to start issue. I am taking it back in for the 5th time - they have had it there in total around 5 weeks and claim to try and start it a few times a day but cannot get it to fault while there so can't identify what the cause is. To say I am frustrated is an understatement and I am at the point where I am afraid to take it remote. Lets see what they come up with this time.

[spudfan]

We had a non start with our 2.4 Puma. It sat for a week with no starting. This is what fixed it.
The negative battery clamp was loosened and refitted but pushed as far down on the negative terminal as it would go before being tightened. Been perfect ever since. It is worth a try.
Prior to this I had tried all of the usual suggestions including removing and refitting the negative battery clamp. Like I said it was refitting the negative battery clamp as far down the negative terminal it would go that sorted it.

[one_iota]

Chenz,

I've been having a similar problemfor a while where the Defender will crank over and immobilize after a few cranks. Locking and unlocking clears it.

Using my Nanocom I checked out the alarm module and found that at the end of settings group 1 there is a setting called "Passive immobilize". According to the documentation, this setting configures the alarm to automatically activate the immobilizer after a certain period of time after the key is removed. This was active on mine so I disabled it and the problem has gone!

Maybe this will work for you.

[Chenz]

Chenz,

I've been having a similar problemfor a while where the Defender will crank over and immobilize after a few cranks. Locking and unlocking clears it.

Using my Nanocom I checked out the alarm module and found that at the end of settings group 1 there is a setting called "Passive immobilize". According to the documentation, this setting configures the alarm to automatically activate the immobilizer after a certain period of time after the key is removed. This was active on mine so I disabled it and the problem has gone!

Maybe this will work for you.

Thanks I tried that but the ECU kept turning it back on. Maybe there is a sequence that needs to be done as there are a number of areas such as immobiliser, alarm, key etc that can be enabled and disabled.

Thanks

[one_iota]

Thanks I tried that but the ECU kept turning it back on. Maybe there is a sequence that needs to be done as there are a number of areas such as immobiliser, alarm, key etc that can be enabled and disabled.

Thanks


The first time I changed the setting I had the ignition on and it reverted to enabled. So the next time I had the ignition off and no key in the ignition. I changed the setting to disabled and üsed the "write" button and it read the settings and wrote the setting to the ECU....I tested it with the ignition on and the setting has remained as I set it.

[Chenz]

The first time I changed the setting I had the ignition on and it reverted to enabled. So the next time I had the ignition off and no key in the ignition. I changed the setting to disabled and üsed the "write" button and it read the settings and wrote the setting to the ECU....I tested it with the ignition on and the setting has remained as I set it.

Thanks for the heads up. I am taking it back to the dealer tomorrow as I still think they should identify why this keeps happening and fix the fault after me paying for a new immobiliser. I will after that try your fix and disable the bloody thing once and for all.

[one_iota]

Thanks for the heads up. I am taking it back to the dealer tomorrow as I still think they should identify why this keeps happening and fix the fault after me paying for a new immobiliser. I will after that try your fix and disable the bloody thing once and for all.

What progress good sir?

[Chenz]

What progress good sir?

On the last event where the NRMA cleared the fault codes to get me going, the bloke told me that this issue could be relay related as a similar problem existed with older Ford Rangers and Transits where the battery voltage drops sharply on starting. I dunno but the LR dealer has changed the PCM and Immobilizer relays. They asked me to monitor it and see if this resolves the issue.

I will do so and if it does not resolve the problem I will follow your advice and use the Nanocom to disable the passive immobilizer. Makes you wonder why this was not done prior to them fitting and charging me for a new immobilizer at nearly $4k

Will update as things evolve. Thanks for you advice

[flob241981]

had the same issue once in a while, just had to unplug the relay under the drive wheel and it would start again

[Warthog]

Having same problem - which relay under the steering wheel is the one to pull out please?