Anyone heard of Neo gearbox oil.

[dhumphri]

Has anyone heard of Neo synthetic gearbox oil. Have been told the stuff is incredible but expensive. Want to try running some in the Defender.

If anyone has a lead regarding a distributor please let me know.

Thanks
Daz

[igould]

Has anyone heard of Neo synthetic gearbox oil.

Obviously no-one.
Where did yu hear about it? And what was so special about it?

Ian

[dhumphri]

Hi Ian

Was talking with Ward the head technician at Graeme Coopers and he told me that it is the best gearbox oil he has ever seen.

Is extremely pricey ($270 for 5 litres) but apparently can be run for 100000kms and makes the box quieter and much much smoother through the gears.

Have been experimenting with different manual gear oils and have found nothing great so far including Castrol Syntrans which is not cheap in itself.

I have found one place in Sydney with 4 litres of the stuff at a good price and was thinking of giving it a go - just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with it.

Am going to pick it up on Saturday and do an oil change - will post the results. Daz

[Omaroo]

Daz - have you looked at Redline MTL? I've heard that it does rate very highly amongst many - even over and above Castrol SynTrans (which was developed for the Jaguar XJ-220). I use it in both my highly-tweaked Saabs and it's the only oil that will let me quick-shift without graunching.

[dhumphri]

Hi Omaroo

Have heard of Redline oils but have not tried any. How pricey is the stuff mate?
Daz

[Omaroo]

Daz it's about $36.00 per litre. Brilliant oil though. I've run it in one of my Saabs for the past 90,000 km and the box feels just like it did when it originally went in.

Depending on the viscosity required, there are other types that they specify on the following site:

http://www.redlineoil.com.au/product-ordering.asp

[DRanged]

dhumphri
I have been running a Castrol full synthetic ATF oil in my R380 and LT230 behind a turbo Isuzu. Not as expensive as the oil you are sourcing but runs a lot quieter than recomended oils. A good freind used to run it in his HQ race car gearbox gives you smoother changes and handles temp a lot better.

PS At the moment I dont run the remote oil cooler and have had no problems.

Regards Justin

[rick130]

Back when I raced I was sponsored by the then Neo importer, so I have a bit of experience with the stuff, as well as Castrol's and Redline's finest.

First off, In my experience Castrol Syntrans has a better upshift performance than Redline MTL in the R380 'box.
Currently running an MTL/MT90 brew at 60/40 due to oil thinning with both Syntrans and MTL at 35*C+ ambients (no oil cooler) Less noise and better shift action on hot days/high load.

Which Neo brew are we talking about ? If it's MTF, IMHO it is too light in viscosity, being 4.4cSt @ 100*C ( ATF is around 7cSt) vs 10.5 cSt for Caltex MTF 94 (current factory fill and developed by Texaco in the UK for Land Rover), 10.5-11cSt for MTL and 11.9cSt for Syntrans.
Neo gear fluids are some of the best race gear oils available worldwide, and if I was still racing and had to pay for the stuff I wouldn't hesitate in using it, but back when a couple of the Sydney L/R garages started using Neo MTF (early '90's) there were no other dedicated manual trans fluids other than R/L MTL, and that wasn't easy to source as the importer was in WA and Blair Harley, the Neo importer was in Sydney. Back then, ATF was the specified fluids for the LT77 and R380 box and so Neo MTF was a far better solution.

However, If Coopers are talking about Neo 75/90 HD or RHD, then disregard the last paragraph. ;)

[Michael2]

I've found the Penrite Synthetic ATF (about $36 for 4 litres) to be very good in the LT77 in the R/Rover and I plan on using it in the R380 in the (newly aquired) Defender. I've tried light gear oil in the LT77 and found it made the box too notchy, it didn't even warm up after 800km in a day!!!! The guys at Penrite said the Synthetic ATF would be more stable at higher temps than the light gear oil, and much much better than the regular ATF commonly used in these boxes.

Given how inexpensive it is, I'd suggest you try the Penrite oil first and see how that goes.

[rick130]

Oh, and if anyone is interested, I still have 5l of Neo 0W-5 (yes, 0W-5 !) engine oil and 2l of Neo 7wt diff/gear oil (same viscosity as MTF, 4.4 cSt)

Never been game to use it in any road vehicle, but could never bring myself to dispose of it, either.
Oh, and Neo engine oil has the best aroma of any oil I've ever used. Yes, I'm a sick puppy for sniffing oil....:p

[dhumphri]

Man you know your oils Rick - its the 75/90 RHD that I am looking at purchasing for the R380 - can you give me a quick review of this very expensive gear oil and its suitability..Daz

[disconut]

Why not Castrol Syntrax? Its 75/90, it does the gearbox, transfer and diffs.
I know some use Syntrans 75/85. Cheaper than the Neo.

Trev.

[rick130]

RHD ?
absolute bloody overkill for an R380 manual gearbox. It was originally developed for F1 and Champ Car transaxles. It was also the only gear oil recommended by X-trac for any of their gearboxes, (they supply most F1 teams with gearbox internals) including the transmissions used in the majority of the WRC cars. Remember that all these race car 'boxes also house the CWP, an R380 doesn't. Hell, I've never even used it. I only used HD in the race car or 7wt as it didn't have the power/torque to necessitate RHD. I'd also be curious how it shifts as it is an LSD fluid, although I supplied a mate with the HD for his then fiance's Pug 405MI and it was a vast improvement on whatever was originally in it.
The specs sheet I have lists it as 15.4 cSt @ 100* and a VI of 180. I agree with Trev, If you want to use a 75W-90 save some bucks and use Syntrax. It's an ester/PAO base (Neo is a di-ester), is not an LSD fluid and as such is optimised for synchro performance. In an independent test sheet I have it was ranked either first or second with Motul 300V 75w/90 and Elf HTX729 (pure race gear oils) across all categories in a lab test and in front of Redline 75w-90 NS, Shell XGO, Mobil 1 SHC, Agip Rotra LSX and Mobil XHP (all synthetic).

[Ace]

I use Caltex MTF 94, was made by caltex for land rover manual gearboxes, it even comes in a plain white drum with land rover on it. cost me about $120 for 20L from the caltex distributor in Bathurst, has been great. Matt

[dhumphri]

Rick I am using Castrol SynTRANS at the moment in my R380 and am finding that the gears crunch between 3rd and 4th if I shift even close to quickly, selection of first isn't too flash either.

What would you recommend - am totally lost now. Is Castrol SynTRAX better in the R380 - I thought this was to be used in the xfer case as opposed to the main gearbox. What would be your preferences in order of priority? Many thks for your help mate. Daz

[rick130]

Generally, Syntrans=gearbox, Syntrax=t/case and diffs. With any vehicle, firstly look at the factory recommendations (in this case, R380=MTF 94) and if you aren't happy with it use a fluid with a similar viscosity (actual viscosity in centiStokes [cSt] as printed on a TDS, not the SAE viscosity range. Comparable fluids to MTF 94 are Syntrans, Redline MTL, etc.)
Trev has used Syntrax successfully. I wouldn't have thought to use a fluid that thick as it is around 14.5 cSt @ 100*C, yet I'm ending up close to there with my MTL/MT90 brew (at a guess, around 12.5cSt) as I was getting fluid thinning in hot weather, and the cold weather performance hasn't deteriorated. Remember that ATF was originally the spec in these boxes, and an ATF is around 7cSt @ 100*C. The oil in these boxes must get fairly warm, as I have a factory oil cooler t/stat housing, and the t/stat is rated at 87*C opening.

As I said before, Syntrans had the best upshift performance of all the fluids used in my experience (Caltex/Land Rover MTF 94, Castrol Syntrans, Castrol VMX (yuk), Redline MTL, Redline MTL/MT90 brew)

I've never had a problem on the 3-4 upchange. Very occaisonally beat the synchros on 2-3, but I put that down to operator error.

An oils syncro performance is based on a few things, obviously wear or the state of the various gearbox components, the fluids viscosity and the various friction modifiers used by the blender to enhance synchro performance.
Some oils suit some gearboxes better than others, but the differences are usually across types of boxes, not individual ones of the same type.

As I said, RHD is a GL5/6(obsolete) very heavy duty hypoid limited slip diff fluid that has found to work brilliantly in race car rear ends/transaxles and X-trac 4WD transmissions. (eg, Neal Bates used to use it in the 4WD gearbox of the Toyota Celica he rallied when he was sponsored by one of the major oil companies)
I'm not really sure if it would help your situation, and if you wanted to try a heavier fluid, I'd use Syntrax first as
1. it's miles cheaper (although that normally wouldn't influence my decision, but you are experimenting here)
2. I t has proven synchro performance in a wide variety of gearboxes. I've used it and Redline MT90 in Patrols and the performance was identical and both were better than Fuchs 75W-90 .

But if Coopers are recommending it, they obviuosly have experience in using it, and it is only just under three litres...

[EDIT] just rembered that Neo RHD was considered the oil of choice in WRX gearboxes. These need a 75W90 GL5 fluid (hypoid diff), and a lot of people reckon that it was about the only oil that gave reasonable changes. IIRC, MRT were using it on theirs and customer cars. Something else to ponder.

[dhumphri]

I re-checked with Ward and it was Neo 7wt that he was talking about, not RHD like I thought.

[crump]

Is anyone going to make an inane comment about The Matrix in this thread ever???:D

[rick130]

Is anyone going to make an inane comment about The Matrix in this thread ever???:D

you win ! :p