A frame castellated nut - size?

[Lionel]

Hi,

I'll soon need to replace the A frame ball joint on my Defender 2004 TD5 Xtreme.

I want to replace the unit complete (with housing), but would like to undo the castellated nut & try to break the taper with the old unit in place before removing it.

Does anyone know the exact size of the spanner needed. There is only room for a ring spanner, unfortunately, & I'll have to buy one.

It is 28-30mm approx. (1 1/8 AF maybe?).

Any information would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Lionel

[travelrover]

Hi Lionel

I have forgotten the size but you can get a socket on and with a universal joint you can wiz it off in seconds with an impact drill/wrench.

I replaced my A ball joint with one with a grease nipple. It’s a little hard to get at to service but you can. Supposed to extended the service life of the unit… seems ok so far but is relatively new.

Cheers Simon

[ozy013]

30mm

Just recently changed mine, same as Simon said....socket and impact wrench.... I have a Long Ranger fuel tank, which restricted access. Just put rear of chassis on axle stands, removed rear wheels, and lowered axle with jack. The only issue I had was getting the torque wrench on the nut to re tension at the end.

[travelrover]

30mm

Just recently changed mine, same as Simon said....socket and impact wrench.... I have a Long Ranger fuel tank, which restricted access. Just put rear of chassis on axle stands, removed rear wheels, and lowered axle with jack. The only issue I had was getting the torque wrench on the nut to re tension at the end.

I gave up trying to get the torque wrench on, just used a bar and a length of gal pipe and was sliding around on the ground getting it as tight as possible and putting the pin in! No idea what torque it is..

[Lionel]

Hi Lionel

I have forgotten the size but you can get a socket on and with a universal joint you can wiz it off in seconds with an impact drill/wrench.

I replaced my A ball joint with one with a grease nipple. It’s a little hard to get at to service but you can. Supposed to extended the service life of the unit… seems ok so far but is relatively new.

Cheers Simon

On my vehicle it is NOT possible to remove the castellated nut with a socket - there's not enough space. Apparently with a Salisbury diff there is room to use a socket, but not with the Rover diff fitted to later TD5s.

Hence the ring spanner.

Cheers,

Lionel

[travelrover]

On my vehicle it is NOT possible to remove the castellated nut with a socket - there's not enough space. Apparently with a Salisbury diff there is room to use a socket, but not with the Rover diff fitted to later TD5s.

Hence the ring spanner.

Cheers,

Lionel

Hmmm, that really does throw a spanner in the works…. ;-)

[jbe]

Most ball joints seem to be 30mm spanner size (Maxidrive are 28mm from memory), I have a 2005 Td5 with a P38 rear diff and I had to shop for a socket that I could get on for quite a while. It is certainly a tight squeeze.I'll have a look later today what socket I used.

[Patrick110td5]

I couldn't for the life of me get the nut off the sals diff in my 2002 (also with long range tank), resorted to using a dremil and chisel which ended up costing me a new brake pipe aswell. If i have to do it again I would just unbolt from the top of the diff and do it all in a vice (not sure if you can do this with other diff types though?) https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210722/259b488c29bddc76157d4a17b7442b28.jpg

[jbe]

This style of impact socket was the only one that fitted. I think it also helped that is was a hex pattern which did not tend to round the edges of the nut.

172439172440172441

[ozy013]

On my vehicle it is NOT possible to remove the castellated nut with a socket - there's not enough space. Apparently with a Salisbury diff there is room to use a socket, but not with the Rover diff fitted to later TD5s.

Hence the ring spanner.

Cheers,

Lionel

Mine is a 2010 Puma with the same Rover diff fitted as the TD5. There is just enough space if you buy the right socket...I will try and get a pic of the socket I used tomorrow.

[Lionel]

Mine is a 2010 Puma with the same Rover diff fitted as the TD5. There is just enough space if you buy the right socket...I will try and get a pic of the socket I used tomorrow.

Thanks ozy013.

I have noticed several Puma owners referring, in posts, to the use of a socket on this nut, but I thought that there must have been a change in the brackets between Puma & TD5 models which made a socket possible.

On the Defender2 UK site a few TD5 owners have referred to grinding down a normal shallow socket so that it will fit.

I would be most interested in a socket which would fit "as is", & if you could measure its height I would be very appreciative, as I could then compare the dimensions with my 30mm socket before buying one.

Cheers,

Lionel

[Lionel]

This style of impact socket was the only one that fitted. I think it also helped that is was a hex pattern which did not tend to round the edges of the nut.

172439172440172441

Thanks jbe.

Cheers,

Lionel

[jbe]

I don't know what rear diffs are used in the Pumas (maybe Rover). As far as I know, the early Td5 110s came out with Salisbury rear diffs and the later ones with P38 rear diffs and Rover front diffs (the 90s have Rover rear diffs AFAIK).
The diff centers in Rover diffs are called long neck and the ones in P38 diffs are called short necks. So, if your diff center in the rear has a significantly shorter neck than the one in your front diff of your Td5 110, you have a P38 rear diff (same as me).
This would mean the socket, I posted will work.

[Lionel]

I don't know what rear diffs are used in the Pumas (maybe Rover). As far as I know, the early Td5 110s came out with Salisbury rear diffs and the later ones with P38 rear diffs and Rover front diffs (the 90s have Rover rear diffs AFAIK).
The diff centers in Rover diffs are called long neck and the ones in P38 diffs are called short necks. So, if your diff center in the rear has a significantly shorter neck than the one in your front diff of your Td5 110, you have a P38 rear diff (same as me).
This would mean the socket, I posted will work.

Thanks very much for the useful information. I'll have a look & see exactly what rear diff I have. Pity it's not a Salisbury - getting a socket on there is a doddle!

I have a local branch of Sydney Tools who seem to stock the Daytona impacts. I'll try & measure one after the lockdown ends (!!).

Cheers,

Lionel

[Lionel]

I don't know what rear diffs are used in the Pumas (maybe Rover). As far as I know, the early Td5 110s came out with Salisbury rear diffs and the later ones with P38 rear diffs and Rover front diffs (the 90s have Rover rear diffs AFAIK).
The diff centers in Rover diffs are called long neck and the ones in P38 diffs are called short necks. So, if your diff center in the rear has a significantly shorter neck than the one in your front diff of your Td5 110, you have a P38 rear diff (same as me).
This would mean the socket, I posted will work.

The rear diff centre is about 160mm (flange to diff casing joint), & the front is about 200mm, so rear is a P38 diff.

Of course, the other complication I have is that the lower bracket holding the ball joint to the diff is welded to the diff casing, not bolted as in earlier models. This means I have to be able to undo the nut on the car (!!). Maybe it is similar on the Puma.

Cheers,

Lionel

[jbe]

The rear diff centre is about 160mm (flange to diff casing joint), & the front is about 200mm, so rear is a P38 diff.

Of course, the other complication I have is that the lower bracket holding the ball joint to the diff is welded to the diff casing, not bolted as in earlier models. This means I have to be able to undo the nut on the car (!!). Maybe it is similar on the Puma.

Cheers,

Lionel

Yes, you should be able to unbolt the nut on the car with the socket, I posted pictures of earlier. I think, I bought it at Sydney Tools.
I found a couple of pictures in my photo album which help identify the type of diff and show the welded on cast bracket.
The picture from underneath the car is my Defender to identify the diff model, the other one was from a Facebook post. I think that brackets on the Puma are a little shallower than on the Td5 P38 diff.



172449172448

[towe0609]

I have a 30mm ring spanner and a KINCROME K2414 (3/4 drive 6 sided impact socket - 54mm deep) or a K2882 (1/2 drive 12 sided socket - 43mm deep) here in Moe is you want a loan Lionel. PM me.

[Lionel]

Yes, you should be able to unbolt the nut on the car with the socket, I posted pictures of earlier. I think, I bought it at Sydney Tools.
I found a couple of pictures in my photo album which help identify the type of diff and show the welded on cast bracket.
The picture from underneath the car is my Defender to identify the diff model, the other one was from a Facebook post. I think that brackets on the Puma are a little shallower than on the Td5 P38 diff.



172449172448

Thanks again. A member of the Defender2 site (UK) mentioned being able to undo his 30mm nut with a suitable socket, but not tighten up the replacement. This seemed odd to me & I have questioned him about it. His vehicle is a 90, but seems to have a similar setup.

Did you have any difficulty tightening up your new one?

Cheers,

Lionel

[jbe]

Thanks again. A member of the Defender2 site (UK) mentioned being able to undo his 30mm nut with a suitable socket, but not tighten up the replacement. This seemed odd to me & I have questioned him about it. His vehicle is a 90, but seems to have a similar setup.

Did you have any difficulty tightening up your new one?

Cheers,

Lionel

I had no issues with tightening. I used a 30cm socket extension and a torque ratchet.
I put the socket over the nut first and then put the extension into the socket.
I used to do it with a 32mm socket before which was easier to get on and off, but this messed up the edges of the castellated nut.

[Lionel]

I had no issues with tightening. I used a 30cm socket extension and a torque ratchet.
I put the socket over the nut first and then put the extension into the socket.
I used to do it with a 32mm socket before which was easier to get on and off, but this messed up the edges of the castellated nut.

Just a follow up. I did the job last Wednesday & it was not too easy, mainly due to a ferociously tight castellated nut. I had obtained a Daytona 30mm impact socket, & modified it as you suggested, so no problem there. Thanks very much for the info.

My Milwaukee 18V impact driver wouldn't go near undoing the nut, which shocked me rather, as it was the 1st time the Milwaukee had failed to undo anything previously on the Defender! Heating up the nut with a Bunnings blow torch got it to undo though.

The next thing was the taper joint which was MOST reluctant. I had the car on axle stands under the chassis to take the weight off the wheels, but I also put a jack under the A frame bracket itself to lift the wheels just off the floor, so the whole weight of the rear axle & wheels was held by the taper joint. Then I used the blow torch again. After about 2 minutes of heating the taper separated with a very satisfying BANG.

After that it was very straightforward to clean everything up & fit the new bracket assembly. Although there seemed to be very little play in the old one (the boot was split), the car does feel better on the road, so there must have been a little bit of unwanted axle movement.

All good, & thanks to you & all the other posters for your help.

Cheers,

Lionel